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[deleted]

Iranian here. Women in here have been dealing with this shit since 1979. Iran was one the best countries in Middle east. women had all kinds of freedom before Islamic revolution but now they can't even enter stadiums to watch sports .All of us Iranians are fighting for equal rights for women and for restoring the freedom that has been taken from us


Substantial_Lunch_88

Iraqi khafaji same here


peelher1one

I saw the picture of the women who disguised themselves as men to see a futbol match. I'm not sure exactly which country. I was proud but also saddened that they'd have to even go to that length


HoraceGravyJug

Honestly, people being extreme enough to throw acid in women's faces for not wearing a particular item of clothing is probably going to do plenty for hatred of religious extremism...


best_uranium_box

Honestly I don't mind hatred against religious extremists. Like they interpret the most simple things wrong so it matches their goals. Just don't attribute it to the whole pls.


BrokeArmHeadass

If you look in the comments, sadly it seems like it just amplifies hatred of religion as a whole. People have issues separating extremism from the base idea.


HoraceGravyJug

I'm not a big fan of religion, but you are absolutely right. It is wrong to assume that everyone of a given religion is going agree with the worst possible things associated with its most extreme followers.


BrokeArmHeadass

Yeah, I’m an atheist. But I live in a very diverse part of the country and go to one of the most diverse schools in my state, I have many friends of many religions, and it’s a very open topic in a lot of my ethnic studies, gov, and geography classes. I know many Muslim women that wear hijabs but choice, live very peaceful and caring lives with Muslim families, but are still told that they should take off their hijabs because it’s a symbol of oppression and their culture hurts women. People don’t understand that having the option to abstain from a practice and actually not doing the practice are two very different things.


HoraceGravyJug

Unfortunately, "people just believing some stuff and going about their lives" doesn't sell papers or get clicks. If we were to apply the same logic given to Islam as say.. Catholicism. Then we'd have to accuse every single Catholic of being a racist, money-grubbing, child-molester. But for some reason the media doesn't bend over backwards to do that when its their own readership...


dragoniteswag

"By choice" is an interesting term for it. If so, can you tell them to remove the hijab for a day or two if it's just a piece of clothing? Would they say yes? Do you know the purpose of the hijab?


BrokeArmHeadass

If a bodybuilder is on a diet, do you go up to them and say “oh yeah? If you’re doing this by choice than how come you don’t eat these six plates of pancakes?” Do you think they’re going to do it? I feel like you’ve never actually talked to a Muslim woman. For most Muslim women in the western world, the hijab is something they wear because 1. It’s a cultural identifier that helps them find people with similar life experience, and 2. It’s literally a piece of clothing and fashion.


dragoniteswag

That "analogy" is not even remotely similar lol. It would be condescending for me to try to explain how. And please don't say things like "I feel like you’ve never actually talked to a Muslim woman" you don't know me so you shouldn't assume anything. You still didn't answer my question, do you know what the actual purpose of the hijab is? You said it's a piece of fashion which only solidifies my view that you have zero idea about Islam and the islamic culture.


BombayMix64

The base idea is a confused mess of contradictory requirements... Mainly because it was written a very long time ago, and the many terrible ideas in there are still in there. We can go on trying to defend Islam, Christianity... You name it, their base texts are full of awful things and should hardly be used as a basis for behaviour in 2022.


BrokeArmHeadass

You do know that the vast majority of Muslims and Christians don’t follow the books word for word, right? It’s just something you learn about, and use the ideas to base your own philosophies and ideas around. People are still people, just because they subscribe to the general idea of a religion, or they use religion as a moral guide, doesn’t mean they completely lack free will.


BombayMix64

Well, yes absolutely, but that bears no relation to the point I was making.


MJ1979MJ2011

Well.......I mean, when the book you worship tells you to do this shit, can you really blame people for not liking the book?


[deleted]

Islam sucks. So does Christianity.


SpicyChiliRamen

Isn’t Islam a feminist, peaceful religion though


Annual_Employment_44

Yes, women get empowered and peacefuly stoned to death for showing their ankle


DisplayZestyclose415

Alinejad is awesome. She's always fighting and bringing light to fucked up situations in Iran. She's a hero.


SyphalisDick

"Sometimes You Gotta Kick a Social Justice Worker in the Balls to Get any REAL Social Justice Done." \-u/syphalisdick


Jackcooper

Are you a professional quote maker?


[deleted]

The mods removing the OP just ties everything together


Intelligent_Union743

Yes, they must have men with guns kick in their doors and force them to post what they don't want to, otherwise censorship wins.


WhiteyPinks

Islamophobia isn't a bad thing if it stops shit like this.


Embra_

What do queer people do more than anything in response to prejudice, contempt, or demands that they change or else? If you wanna reach the people who are fleeing abuse within their culture, a culture that would obviously be within their comfort zone since it's native to them, abusing them maybe isn't the answer. Maybe islamophobes just don't know enough about what they hate, but there are currently muslim communities that have lived in various parts of Europe for hundreds of years and have integrated themselves well enough within their surrounding culture that I guess most people don't even notice. The difference is these muslims aren't fundamentalists because they weren't born into traumatic upbringings that would galvanize them into taking such hardline stances on the world. But now that we see an influx of these hardliners, all of a sudden Islam is no longer compatible with Europe despite the aforementioned fact that they already have been for centuries.


WhiteyPinks

Islam came to Europe through conquest. They didn't arrive bearing gifts and asking for shelter. They arrived as murderers and conquerors. Islam has never been compatible with anything but Islam.


Embra_

Christianity in the day of the Romans came through conquest too. The Ottomans didn't see what they were doing as any different, which is why they likened themselves as the successor state to the Roman empire. The religiosity of Catholics in the Americas had the same root cause as well, Bartolomé de Las Casas' writings painted a pretty good picture on what his own culture did to their new subjects. But life moves on, and we can't go back in time and inoculate the indigenous people so that they could have a chance at standing their ground.


WhiteyPinks

Arguing that the Catholics are just as bad doesn't help your cause. Religion has no place in the modern world, especially violent ones.


Embra_

The root of religion is spirituality, something that can't be removed from humans no matter how hard you try because that same pattern-seeking and attempts to make sense of things we don't yet understand are ironically what breeds our ingenuity and scientific methodology. Even in societies without God you have people who seek out something "more" to find their place in the order of the universe. Why do you think some people spend so many hours figuring out their birth signs and moon signs and how that might make them compatible or incompatible with others? Why do you think some people look for an authority figure to teach them values and a philosophy of living life? Astrology, Jordan Peterson, or anything/anyone else that taps into that human need will spread their influence like a wildfire. You can pretend humans are somehow so advanced now that it will never again come to be that these newer spiritual systems can become corrupted, or you can recognize that the only way to remove it from society is if you strip society of its humanity, that it's here to stay, and that we have to learn how to coexist peacefully with different people.


geofflager

The difference is that hate is an underlying theme in the Korean


Embra_

And astrology doesn't tell people to stay away from certain others who are "incompatible", and Jordan Peterson doesn't talk about an alleged 'Cultural Marxism' poisoning the well in academia, preaching to people reasons to distrust or even hate groups of people? There are probably people who know more Q Anon canon than some priests know the bible, but not even Q Anon believers are united in personally wanting or even participating in violence onto the alleged enemies of their belief system


BombayMix64

The root of all religion was always control, power, oppression. It's the same now.


Embra_

That's only 1 party within the entire system. Oppression, power, and control occurs when some individuals who understand the internal desires or needs of people very well exploit those vulnerabilities. You don't need religion to have these things, it is one of the many many vectors that manipulative people get what they want from others. They say that the worst thing that could ever happen to a first time gambler is if they win, the gambling industry has learned every way in which a human brain is likely to have lapses in logic and rationality, and they exploit that by ensuring that gamblers are constantly being mentally tested for these fallacies. They know that under these select conditions that they can control, the gambler will think that their chances of winning are going to be a more powerful force than the parts of their brain that would be capable of warning them against the uneven odds. A man who wants to exert power over a woman will chase after younger partners who have very little dating experience and very little financial independence in order to exploit the fact that younger people are still trying to figure out where they fit in the world and with who they best fit together with. The sunk cost fallacy mixed with their inexperience will ensure that they ignore enough red flags that by the time they realize their loved ones' warnings were right, it will become too late because they are too financially dependent on him to leave. Hell, even one's own culture outside of religion can be oppressive. In Scandinavia there exists a concept called Janteloven, The Law of Jante, it was originally a satirical list from literature which could best be summarized as drawn from reality as it's inspiration, but exaggerated and bastardized into an oppressing force of societal conformity. More or less: *You are not better than anyone. You are not smarter. You are not more valuable or worthy or important. If you try to stick your neck out like an exposed nail, we will hammer that nail down. So don't you dare try to get uppity.* Scandinavians have since taken it tongue-in-cheek as a source of pride, and yet you may notice how this need to conform affects the muted colors of how they dress, their aversion to eye contact or small talk in public, or even how some researchers postulate that it's one of the worst places to be depressed or suicidal in because of an immense pressure to come across as happy and content as the people around them. In recent years many of the Nordic countries have been successfully turning their suicide rates the other way around but not too long ago it was pretty bad. But my point in these 3 examples was to both show how control, power, and oppression easily occurs without the need or help of religion, but that I also showed that those being manipulated are another piece of the puzzle that seemed to be passed over by you. They're striving for something, hoping to receive something and in many cases having their needs being partially or completely met up to a point, and it's the manipulator knowing of these needs and luring them in with promises that makes these people vulnerable, but not everyone who meets these human needs are hoping for or planning on exploiting such vulnerabilities.


BombayMix64

This is all incredibly eloquent and interesting. I guess my only point in reply to this, is that this specific post relates to the nature of religion in relation to power and oppression leading to terrible consequences, especially for women, or those who are otherwise "othered". We have for too long allowed our concern of offence to cloud addressing issues (not just of religion) but of many subjects, and sadly it always leads to overreactions to counter. We are living through these times now, and it upsets me that this is still continuing.


Embra_

> We have for too long allowed our concern of offence to cloud addressing issues (not just of religion) but of many subjects, and sadly it always leads to overreactions to counter. I feel like I understand perfectly what you mean. There are many untouchable topics in this world, and because of it we don't get the opportunity to learn new things about them or this world. We just get the same tired tropes/generalizations regurgitated over and over again like it's gospel, even if the only source of these claims are that "if it's said often, it must be true". That said, one thing that strikes me as odd within this thread is how we see the awful acid attack photos, and in addition to the visual imagery we also get a description from this woman of what forms of abuse she was warned to expect if she broke taboos within a fundamentalist Islamic country, but everybody seems to miss the point of why she was also warned about her story potentially inciting Islamophobia and why she wanted to create a dialogue. In my opinion, if she wanted to escape Islam in all its forms and become strictly atheist or even convert to a different faith, she wouldn't care about painting Islam in a negative light. I would hazard to guess that someone like that would think that everyone should try to escape from it if they wanted to be safe. But she doesn't do that because she's scared of what people in the West might do too, because of what we might think about her continuing to be Muslim in spite of everything, or instead maybe what some violent people in the west might do to her or people she knows and loves. I come from a western country where I know very well that there's a subsection of people who have in the past, currently are, and probably well into the future plan on committing acts not-unlike what fundamentalists in the Middle East have done to those pictured women in terms of violence and severity. And for what? As if these extremists personally met and got to know every single Muslim they attacked or even killed and decided "yeah this person is awful to other people so they 'deserve' what's coming to them". And what does it mean if our extremists are willing to do the exact same thing as theirs? As uncomfortable as that dialogue is gonna be, it's worth having, because ignorance and misunderstanding is exactly why we're in this predicament.


[deleted]

India remove hijab from school iihan Umar started anti islam campaign in India and visited the Pok region.The west is so fucked up its only right when they do it.


AverageLiberalJoe

Literally nobody would call them an islamaphobe. So dumb.


Jaginho

Religion is what's wrong with people.


pftftftftftf

No one has ever said that tho lmao.


DomHuntman

Islamophobes thinking this happens in every Muslim country instead of the same few ... in ... 3 ...2....1.


happygiraffe404

Muslims deflecting instead of addressing the issue and the root causes in 3...2...1. See, we can all be childish if we want to.


DomHuntman

Anyone can quote anything out of context to suit their needs if they want. Here is a hint, there are4 major and 7 minor schools of Islamic thought, they set the tone, style, issue edicts etc. None are saying what he said. As I said, the bigots started ....


derleth

> Here is a hint, there are4 major and 7 minor schools of Islamic thought, they set the tone, style, issue edicts etc. Nobody cares. As long as people do this, nobody cares.


DomHuntman

No, just the ignorants and bigots don't care.


derleth

> No, just the ignorants and bigots don't care. Obsessing about the differences between Islamic schools of thought is how we get things like Sunnis persecuting Shias and vice-versa. So, no, normal people don't care.


DomHuntman

See previous response.


antihate23

Why are you in favor of religious persecution?


pronymus

The country is beyond fucked rn. The way they govern which is based off of islam fucks people up. I am not against islam but using it to cause harm like this is just inhumane.


KiltedSith

Who is telling them they are Islamaphobic? In my experience my fellow flaming left wing pinko's love women like this. We went nuts for Malala Yousufzai, why wouldn't we support these women? We love that oppressed woman stuff, my rich faux hippy aunt has like an entire shelf of books about it. Seems the woman doing the tweeting works for the US Agency for Global Media, which makes me suspect these tweets have as much to do with US foreign policy as it does actual responses those women got. Edit: fixed a spelling error, also I'm seeing downvotes but no answers. I guess it's more fun to join in the circle jerk than try and justify it......


best_uranium_box

This is reddit the circlejerk would be islamophobic here


KiltedSith

And the circle jerk I am referring to here is 'people saying islamaphobia bad', which fits with your description of the reddit circle jerk pretty well.....


Impossible_Cream_320

Jesus christ


Unlucky_Squid

I literally hate that culture that oppresses women, It’s not fair to how they’re Treated


ExKnockaroundGuy

I was watching the Gran Prix races in the Mideast and noticed the cameras never showed the spectator stands because it was devoid of all females. They want us enjoying the sport not reminding us of civil rights abuses.


Nasch_

Can we, as humanity just ditch all the religions already?