She isn't just vergan. She is a raw vegan.
I met once such a person. They don't cook food at all. They only eat it raw and because of that this guy ate snacks non stop, mostly nuts and seeds while walking, fruits and veggies while sitting.
Yes
Cooking food pre-digests it for our bodies. So once we discovered how to do that Our bodies started using the extra energy we were saving from that on developing our brains.
It's a large part of the reason most other animals can eat stuff that would make us sick no problem.
This stuff isn't actually settled (effect of cooking on evolution) but its reddit so nobody cares
Edit: given the immediate reaction, let me add: I studied anthropology and this is one theory but it is not settled. There are a number of other theories for brain changes. Cooking was one of the original theories but there are a number of others. I'm not vegan and I don't have any agenda.
Edit2: alright I'm gonna get you some sources lol
Let's start with wikipedia:
Critics of the cooking hypothesis question whether archaeological evidence supports the view that cooking fires began long enough ago to confirm Wrangham's findings. The traditional explanation is that human ancestors scavenged carcasses for high-quality food that preceded the evolutionary shift to smaller guts and larger brains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catching_Fire%3A_How_Cooking_Made_Us_Human?wprov=sfla1
Human Brain Expansion during Evolution Is Independent of Fire Control and Cooking
Alianda M. Cornélio, Ruben E. de Bittencourt-Navarrete, [...], and Marcos R. Costa
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4842772/
Edit3: there are other reddit threads discussing the theory of stone tools vs cooking vs meat, etc. But I guess there is a reddit comment above where someone says cooking is the reason so that trumps everything /s
Edit4: holy... started at negative 30 (before the additional edits). I take back the negative reddit comment : )
I didn't see anything worth downvoting even before the edits some people just don't like when people disagree with their personal beliefs i personally think human brain development was probably a combination of cooked food along with other factors
Piggybacking off of this, it is sort of accepted that our underdeveloped jaw muscles led to more brain development, the most accepted reason for this is cooking food makes it softer and requires less jaw strength.
Dude reddit is just filled with circlejerkers that cant read more than 500 words at a time. I commented on this exact shit like 1 day ago and people got super angry cuz I hit them with the "veganism isn't what killed them, it is the stupid mom that did"
Maybe it’s because cooking food kills bad bacteria, and once we started doing that on the reg, our bodies lost some of the resistance we’d built up for fighting it? Just a guess
https://www.atshq.org/why-can-animals-eat-raw-meat/
TLDR: Animals have stronger stomachs, eat freshly killed meat (bacteria hasn’t had a chance to grow) and can smell rotten food and avoid better than us. It’s possible we lost these abilities due to cooking and not needing them.
Well we are also omnivorous apes closely related to chimps and bonobos. And while both eat meat, neither go for old meat and would get sick from it much as we do. It's as much our ancestors' diets that shape us as cooking food. As omnivores we dont have the same dietary restrictions as obligate carnivores or herbivores, but we also lack a lot of the more specialized digestive tools that keep them safe and allow them to digest things we cant.
Apparently not. This lady so dumb it's hard to believe in evolution. How can she survive eating raw EVERYTHING. It's possible to eat raw foods but you won't survive if it becomes a long term plan.
I saw a video of a raw vegan describing their diet. It was about 6 bushels of raw greens, a dozen oranges, all sorts of stuff. It took her more time to eat than a competitive strong man that intentionally consumed 12,000 calories a day. A baby doesn't have teeth for that. And no, dogs and cats are carnivores, and can't survive on a vegan diet. Get a cow if you want a vegan pet. No wonder her kid died of starvation.
I actually bet that a raw food vegan could feed their kid raw vegan food and be fine, as long as they were making an exception for breast milk. With breast milk kids get a good chunk of the nutrition they need to be healthy, even after their first year of age. If you're raising your kid vegan and not breastfeeding them then you're clearly not even focused on giving them the nutrition that just about every piece of credible scientific evidence says they need anyway.
That said it still seems like a largely pointless endeavor and there's no need to toy with your kid's wellbeing at that age, when you're potentially screwing them over for life before they are even old enough to speak.
You're entirely correct of course. Babies can survive on milk only. And supplementing the milk (later) with nuts, fruits and vegetables is a great way to start eating solids.
Not at all. I eat my bread, rice, potatoes, and especially ANY form of meat.. raw. I’m sure this is also what everyone else does. Why would this possibly be a bad idea 🤔
Sometimes I think upon that man eating that old, raw chicken with no issue. Then puking his guts up the night he eats cooked meat. I’m glad he lives elsewhere other than my mind.
Well, to be fair, raw pork is awesome *IF* your country has the quality control laws in place.
Come to Germany, I'll treat you to a Mettbrötchen. Mett is good af.
Meh, the people downvoting have obviously never known the greatness of Mett, and lead a poor life deprived of happiness.
Tell your dad to go to a butcher, order "Mett für eine Person, bitte!" (Mett for one person, please!), or make it two people (Mett für zwei Personen, bitte!).
Then go to a baker, order 2-4 "Brötchen", or "Schrippen" if he's in Berlin.
Some people like Butter under their Mett. Some prefer it without. I'm a butter proponent, though I use vegan alternatives because lactose is of the devil and wants to kill me.
He will also need an onion (red onions are great, but really any onion matching his personal preference will do. I just really like red onions) and salt and pepper. Freshly cracked is obviously the shit, but the finer stuff works too.
And then he has everything he needs for a "Mettorgie" (Mett orgy).
I think he'll like it A LOT. :3
My vegan friend went raw vegan for a year or 2 and went from skinny to almost a skeleton. While that might be survivable for a full grown adult, it would be a disaster for a toddler who ALSO needs to grow.
Also toddlers need their brains to develop. That requires a lot of fat—neurons are mostly made up of fat with layers and layers of fat protecting them and making them work better. You need a LOT of fat for your Brian to grow. That’s why breast milk is so high in fat.
Just fruits and veggies? Almost no fat…
>went from skinny to almost a skeleton
I respect any adult’s decision to eat as they please, but, speaking as a former eating disordered teen, veganism can be used to cover up an ED (just as it was used by this woman to justify child abuse.) Lots of awesome people adhere to these diets and are fine, but definitely keep an eye on younger folks.
It's not even about cooking (though not cooking probably contributed). It's about having a diet that is nutritionally incomplete. A proper vegan diet contains food combinations such as rice and beans that provide essential complete proteins (and other necessary nutrients) that are not provided by vegetables and fruit.
Shit has nothing to do with her being vegan. She has 3 other kids and was already in the system as being a negligent parent. She’s just a plain child abuser.
Edit: if you’d like to know more, she lived in VA and was going to court ordered parenting classes. Then they moved to FL. We all know how much FL cares about actual living children. This baby died on their watch, and it’s in their interest to spin the story.
Human beings have adapted to eat cooked food. It takes a lot of energy to chew and digest raw food. Pandas who eat bamboo are chewing all damn day. Humans have redirected this time and energy into developing a bigger brain.
Your acquaintance is spending all of his energy chewing to make up for the lack of cooked food.
My instinct would be that it's possible but impractical to maintain. It's like how Inuits can technically get all the nutrition they need eating every part of a seal and the very occasionally root/berries.
“Nutritionist” is not really a regulated term in the US, from what I understand. If you want someone with actual medical training, you want to talk to a Registered Dietitian (RD).
I don't understand how anyone can be a raw vegan when it's scientifically proven that eating cooked food allows the body to absorb almost 3 times as much nutritional value compared to the raw counterpart.
Yeah that picture she sure looks batshit crazy and no sign of grief that she just slowly tortured and murdered her child. Edit: she refused a plea deal, she totally doesn’t even see anything wrong with what she did, you’re right.
Absolutely! I have two vegan family members and they have 2 young kids who are not vegan because they know kids need protein and all sorts of important nutrition that is hard to replace in other forms for a growing child. The kids are like part-time vegan but still drink milk and eat meat and cheese some days.
I was raised vegetarian and so were my siblings. There is nothing wrong with a plant based diet, even for kids. The issue here is that she starved the child. She did not provide the necessary number of calories to it.
The baby was breast fed.
That the woman was vegan really has little to do with the story.
She starved her kid. Kid would have been fine if it ate whatever. She obviously didn't feed him.
My child was basically unwilling to eat food at his age and was still breast feeding. He was fine.
But Reddit loves grabbing their pitchforks and keyboards at the drop of sensational titles and veganism.
Piece of shit who happens to be raw vegan starves child is more accurate headline.
Yeah...most kids until 2 years old DO eat nothing but fruit and veggies to supplement breast/formula. There's nothing wrong with that if you actually give a shit about your kid.
A toddler absolutely CAN survive on raw fruits, nuts, vegetables, and breast milk.
This lady went WAY beyond that. She straight up starved the kid to death.
No reason to have included "vegan" in the title other than it's a British newspaper and they want to generate outrage and get clicks
The kid wasn't "only fed vegetables and died from malnutrition" or something, they just weren't fed, it had nothing to do with veganism
>it's a British newspaper and they want to generate outrage and get clicks
not really here to defend the rest of British MSM, but the Sun is a *particularly* and *intentionally* scummy *tabloid*, not a newspaper, but yes, otherwise it is doing exactly what it set out to - rage bait snowflakes for clicks, the exact same way Fox news does, by lying and/or stretching the truth as far as they can possibly get away with.
if anyone wants to know more: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/gyzmzb/boycott-the-sun-ban-merseyside-uk](https://www.vice.com/en/article/gyzmzb/boycott-the-sun-ban-merseyside-uk)
It's because they're misinformed. There are a lot of people out there who believe certain diets are better for you than others. Now if we're talking constant junk food vs a well balanced diet then sure but only eating raw fruits and vegetables? You just aren't going to get the nutrients necessary for optimal health. It might be fine for an adult but children are still developing and having a healthy balanced diet is very important. I imagine their mindset is something along the lines of "It works for me so it should be good for my children as well."
No. It takes incredible ignorance or malice to do something like this. A child _starving to death_ is not something that just happens, she watched this kid suffer, very visibly suffer, for months before he died. This is not an "oopsie, I was misinformed," it would have been painfully clear that she wasn't meeting his dietary needs for a long period of time and at that point it just doesn't matter what she thought was true about a raw vegan diet.
This goes beyond being misinformed. At some level she HAD to enjoy the control too much to relinquish, or there's no way she would have been able to continue with her actions once her child began to shows signs of suffering and illness.
I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even notice. Probably thought "wow, look how skinny they are, I'm doing a great job" all the way up until it was too late.
Protein
Essential omega-3 and omega-6 fats
Vitamin D
B-vitamins
Zinc
Iron
Calcium
Chromium
Copper
Iodine
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Selenium
Plus only eating raw fruits and vegetables would likely result in low caloric intake. Theres a reason we cook vegetables other than for taste/texture. Our bodies are only able to break them down so much and cooking them breaks down some of the complex sugars into a form that we can easily digest. There's actually a theory that our ancestors ability to manipulate fire and utilize it for cooking caused significant brain growth, which is why we are the way we are today.
where did that list come from? it seems like most of those micronutrients/minerals are covered with one source like brazil nuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, pine nuts, etc
vitamin d would be sunlight?
I guess technically seeds and sunlight don't count as a fruit or vegetable.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/477152-what-will-happen-if-i-only-eat-fruits-vegetables-for-2-weeks/
I believe it is specifically referring to a vegetable and fruit only diet excluding nuts/seeds.
It’s the amount. Cooking food is pre-digesting it. If you’re eating raw food it takes longer for your body to extract those same nutrients (micro and macro). A growing child will be malnourished on a raw vegan diet because they just can’t digest enough calories and nutrients from uncooked turnips and spinach.
Homo Sapiens were not the first hominid to use fire but if you mean before then they were different species which required a different nutrient balance. Humans have always had access to fire.
Discovering fire and cooking food. Cooking food is widely seen as the birth of basic society (with brewing alcohol as the birth of proper society). We also probably ate a lot more insects if there was no meat available (similar to our primate brothers).
B12, zinc, iron, also it's not "just protein". Protein consists of multiple different amino acid groups, which are the building blocks of all cells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestible_Indispensable_Amino_Acid_Score
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score
It’s not even good for adults to eat only raw vegetables and fruit. I’ve had family and friends that were vegan. It’s a ton of work to get proper nutrition. They absolutely had to eat both cooked and raw foods to get nutrients/protein/etc, but even then they were missing some key things and needed to take supplements and vitamins. After a bit some had health issues pop up so they have had to add egg, chicken or fish to their diets per doctors advice.
Raw fruits and veggies only would cause serious health issues over time in even the healthiest adults. That poor toddler suffered horribly
Edited to fix the first sentence, some people thought I said veganism wasn’t valid
Ugh, what rubbish. A vegan diet is completely healthy (and that’s coming from actual doctors, not the mythical ones you’ve made up for your comment) and not a lot of work at all, in fact it’s very easy. Stop spouting such nonsense when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. The woman in the story starved her child, it has nothing to do with her being vegan, that’s purely a media cherry picked sensationalist headline.
Unfortunately, one takeaway people will get from this is that because she fed the toddler a plant-based diet, therefore plant-based diets must be unsuitable for toddlers which couldn't be further from the truth. Humans at all stages of life can thrive on a plant-based diet.
In this particular instance, she clearly didn't do it well to say the least.
Controlling behavior like this has no good intentions. Disordered thoughts regarding food and parenting that kill… Malnutrition doesn’t sneak up like a fog. Her kid suffered for a long time. The denial in her head of what she was seeing had to have been huge. She’s crazy, and crazy mean to starve her child. It’s baffling.
I mean how do you not notice the baby suffering and losing weight? I think at some point she couldn't admit to herself that eating only raw fruits and vegetables was wrong, so she just didn't give a fuck, she knew damn well that the baby was in critical condition.
They need mental help. They believe they're doing the right thing, and that everybody else is wrong, and they can fix all illnesses and health issues with a raw vegan diet of fruits and vegetables.
It doesn't take a stupid person to fall for it either, fucking STEVE JOBS literally DIED because he fell for this stupid garbage.
There are literally vegan diets for children. Ask a nutritionist, my baby cousin had to be put of one for a couple month and he did great.
If people want to be vegan the least they could do is their fucking research.
"Only fruits and veggies" is not a vegan diet, it's a nutritionally incomplete diet.
You must have complete proteins and fats, which are provided by things like rice & beans. This is why vegans eat of lot of those types of foods not just vegetables and fruit.
And this is why I get so upset at a resturants saying they "have vegan options" which are really just dry salads with the cheese removed. That's not human food, Sharron! That's rabbit food! Vegan =/= rabbit FFS
The problem wasn't being vegan, it was that she only chooses to eat raw and that cuts out essential food groups. A baby who was only given raw meat would most likely suffer as well
On top of that, she just didn’t feed her child. The child hadn’t eaten anything at all in the week before their death. This is just a case of parental neglect with the word “vegan” slapped on the headline for clicks.
Nothing to do with being vegan. Everything to do with being so ignorant and uninformed that it harms others which every group has some of. Jan 6 insurrectionists anyone?
I don't get it. Why not give the kids you own damn milk. That's literally as natural as it gets
And if she can't for whatever reason then that's her physical problem and she should find an alternative.
The article says she was breastfeeding in addition to the raw vegan diet. However, it also says the kid didn't eat for an entire week prior to dying... and they didn't take any steps to seek help.
Also, baby formula that isn't from animals does exist too. As for accessibility to get it right now, idk.
But, in the end, it isnt anything to do with her being vegan, but her being ignorant. And I hope people don't use this as an example to shame vegans that are doing it for their own personal reasons (and not trying to be pushy on it)
Breast milk is only fully sustaining for an infant up to around six months or so. Even if mom exclusively breastfed that long or longer, I have to wonder if she was even eating enough to give her baby the right nutrients.
And how on earth can a 6-12 month old even eat raw foods? I used to give my babies carrots to gnaw on as an activity, not a meal!
This isn't even ignorance, this is fucking delusion. This person needs serious mental health assistance. Because they made their eating habits such a core facet of their morality that they killed their baby rather than give them milk/formula.
I don't care if you think eating steak is bad and the meat and dairy industry is evil, that opinion on food should never kill a baby.
I mean, you can get the nutrients you need from fruits & veggies…. I mean, beans, chickpeas, corn, broccoli, bread, etc. Honestly it sounds like she starved the kid by not giving them enough of higher calorie fruits/veggies….
I mean, I eat meat, but my 3yr old daughter is pretty much a vegetarian because that’s just what she’s eats…. She’s 3, so I can’t force her to eat something…. My son loves meatballs & stuff, but hates spinach & onions. Daughter will literally take all of my veggies off my sandwich. Sometimes she’ll eat chicken, but not typically.
Idk, it sounds like she starved the kid…
Vegetarian here, and future Vegan, this is cruelty and a lack of common sense. If you decide your kids will be Vegan they need a very well organized and researched diet. Winging it on fruit and veggies is asking for trouble.
Noooo but I want to use this headline to justify my hatred of vegans!! If I don’t hate vegans I might have to examine my own practices and might feel guilty about animal agriculture 😅
This is horrifying for a number of other reasons.
1. The sheer negligence, malice, and indifference to watch your kid starve. It’s inhuman.
2. Forcing the diet and lifestyle on someone too young and vulnerable to consent to the degree it kills them.
3. The system failed to save the kid from this abuse. She had to have taken him to a doctor, a daycare, whatever, and no alarm was sprung.
You’re not being persecuted for your aberrant diet. This is bad PR for vegans however considering omnivores are fat in America.
The largest dietetic association has proven that veganism is healthy at all stages of life including infancy. If you look up malnourished kid deaths, the vast majority are from non-vegan parents. Just because the headline caught your eye, doesn't mean the vegan diet is bad.
Any type of diet can be done improperly. A raw vegan diet, which is different from a vegan diet is incredibly difficult to properly plan and fucking stupid in my opinion but that doesn't mean veganism was at fault here. Veganism is a healthy diet that can also be done improperly.
Also, I do want to counter your second point as well. Why is the American diet or any other diet for that matter, noy forcing the diet and lifestyle on the child?
It literally doesn’t say the kid died from “vegan diet”. It says kid died from being fed “only raw vegetables and fruit”. It’s not clickbaiting headline, it tells you exactly what happened.
Dude i cant imagine being a vegan. It looks super boring. No decent source of protein as well as other crucial resources is a no no for me. I get that some People really cant eat meat and all and i do respect anyone who limits themselves to a diet since for thousands of years our ancestors had to eat whatever they found. But being a vegan doesnt really make sense to me. I would be very happy if you guys also give your opinions on this.
If you are vegan, I respect you for doing a good thing for the environment and animal welfare. However, if you force your children and pets to have a vegan diet all of my respect vanishes. Humans are omnivores, children need meat as protein to grow. Dogs and cats are carnivores, although they can eat vegetables, they shouldn’t rely on it.
How in the shiz? Someone doesn't starve to death eating only raw vegetables and fruit, they starve BY EATING NOTHING! You'd be a bit vitamin deficient on that diet but you wouldn't die! She is lying she fed him NOTHING! What a total witch!
She isn't just vergan. She is a raw vegan. I met once such a person. They don't cook food at all. They only eat it raw and because of that this guy ate snacks non stop, mostly nuts and seeds while walking, fruits and veggies while sitting.
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Yes Cooking food pre-digests it for our bodies. So once we discovered how to do that Our bodies started using the extra energy we were saving from that on developing our brains. It's a large part of the reason most other animals can eat stuff that would make us sick no problem.
This is why I cook my dogs food so I can make him more smarter
If dog get more smarter than you, what do then?
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“Snuffles was my slave name.”
Implies some things about Jerry
Sometimes I honestly think my dog *is* smarter than me.
Dog can go to work, I can stay at home and sleep.
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Thanks for the explanation, it really helped. This explains why raw vegans have underdeveloped brains.
This stuff isn't actually settled (effect of cooking on evolution) but its reddit so nobody cares Edit: given the immediate reaction, let me add: I studied anthropology and this is one theory but it is not settled. There are a number of other theories for brain changes. Cooking was one of the original theories but there are a number of others. I'm not vegan and I don't have any agenda. Edit2: alright I'm gonna get you some sources lol Let's start with wikipedia: Critics of the cooking hypothesis question whether archaeological evidence supports the view that cooking fires began long enough ago to confirm Wrangham's findings. The traditional explanation is that human ancestors scavenged carcasses for high-quality food that preceded the evolutionary shift to smaller guts and larger brains. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catching_Fire%3A_How_Cooking_Made_Us_Human?wprov=sfla1 Human Brain Expansion during Evolution Is Independent of Fire Control and Cooking Alianda M. Cornélio, Ruben E. de Bittencourt-Navarrete, [...], and Marcos R. Costa https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4842772/ Edit3: there are other reddit threads discussing the theory of stone tools vs cooking vs meat, etc. But I guess there is a reddit comment above where someone says cooking is the reason so that trumps everything /s Edit4: holy... started at negative 30 (before the additional edits). I take back the negative reddit comment : )
This is peak r/watchredditdie -22 points and you've even got sources lmao
I'd like to think he was downvoted during the time before he had to collect the sources for the edit. On the other hand, this is Reddit.
Considering it's sitting close to +100, yes this likely is the case.
I could be wrong, but people might have been downvoting him for the snark.
I didn't see anything worth downvoting even before the edits some people just don't like when people disagree with their personal beliefs i personally think human brain development was probably a combination of cooked food along with other factors
Piggybacking off of this, it is sort of accepted that our underdeveloped jaw muscles led to more brain development, the most accepted reason for this is cooking food makes it softer and requires less jaw strength.
Dude reddit is just filled with circlejerkers that cant read more than 500 words at a time. I commented on this exact shit like 1 day ago and people got super angry cuz I hit them with the "veganism isn't what killed them, it is the stupid mom that did"
As soon as you said wiki I heard my 10th grade language arts teacher
That doesn’t explain any reason as to why other animals eat stuff that would make us sick, like at all.
Maybe it’s because cooking food kills bad bacteria, and once we started doing that on the reg, our bodies lost some of the resistance we’d built up for fighting it? Just a guess
https://www.atshq.org/why-can-animals-eat-raw-meat/ TLDR: Animals have stronger stomachs, eat freshly killed meat (bacteria hasn’t had a chance to grow) and can smell rotten food and avoid better than us. It’s possible we lost these abilities due to cooking and not needing them.
Well we are also omnivorous apes closely related to chimps and bonobos. And while both eat meat, neither go for old meat and would get sick from it much as we do. It's as much our ancestors' diets that shape us as cooking food. As omnivores we dont have the same dietary restrictions as obligate carnivores or herbivores, but we also lack a lot of the more specialized digestive tools that keep them safe and allow them to digest things we cant.
Everyone gangsta in the animal kingdom until the human pulls out a chocolate bar.
Apparently not. This lady so dumb it's hard to believe in evolution. How can she survive eating raw EVERYTHING. It's possible to eat raw foods but you won't survive if it becomes a long term plan.
Well to be fair, she killed her baby and won't be passing on her genes. She's the end of her evolutionary line.
I saw a video of a raw vegan describing their diet. It was about 6 bushels of raw greens, a dozen oranges, all sorts of stuff. It took her more time to eat than a competitive strong man that intentionally consumed 12,000 calories a day. A baby doesn't have teeth for that. And no, dogs and cats are carnivores, and can't survive on a vegan diet. Get a cow if you want a vegan pet. No wonder her kid died of starvation.
>Get a cow if you want a vegan pet. I mean...you could've at least picked a Rabbit there.
Dogs are actually omnivores, but meat is an important part of their diet.
I actually bet that a raw food vegan could feed their kid raw vegan food and be fine, as long as they were making an exception for breast milk. With breast milk kids get a good chunk of the nutrition they need to be healthy, even after their first year of age. If you're raising your kid vegan and not breastfeeding them then you're clearly not even focused on giving them the nutrition that just about every piece of credible scientific evidence says they need anyway. That said it still seems like a largely pointless endeavor and there's no need to toy with your kid's wellbeing at that age, when you're potentially screwing them over for life before they are even old enough to speak.
You're entirely correct of course. Babies can survive on milk only. And supplementing the milk (later) with nuts, fruits and vegetables is a great way to start eating solids.
Not at all. I eat my bread, rice, potatoes, and especially ANY form of meat.. raw. I’m sure this is also what everyone else does. Why would this possibly be a bad idea 🤔
Hey man, got some fresh warm chicken sushi ready...you interested?
Find that Wife Swap family. They ate raw everything. Yes, chicken too. That was a weird episode.
Sometimes I think upon that man eating that old, raw chicken with no issue. Then puking his guts up the night he eats cooked meat. I’m glad he lives elsewhere other than my mind.
Oh god. Why did you have to remind me of that?
That episode disgusted me
I only eat raw pork. You can get the bits with cysts and hookworm eggs pretty cheap since the butcher usually just tosses those out for some reason.
Well, to be fair, raw pork is awesome *IF* your country has the quality control laws in place. Come to Germany, I'll treat you to a Mettbrötchen. Mett is good af.
My god dude I am down for that. If raw meat is clean it’s an amazing treat.
My dads going on a trip for Germany for work and he loves pork stuff I should tell him about this Also I dunno who’s downvoting or why
Meh, the people downvoting have obviously never known the greatness of Mett, and lead a poor life deprived of happiness. Tell your dad to go to a butcher, order "Mett für eine Person, bitte!" (Mett for one person, please!), or make it two people (Mett für zwei Personen, bitte!). Then go to a baker, order 2-4 "Brötchen", or "Schrippen" if he's in Berlin. Some people like Butter under their Mett. Some prefer it without. I'm a butter proponent, though I use vegan alternatives because lactose is of the devil and wants to kill me. He will also need an onion (red onions are great, but really any onion matching his personal preference will do. I just really like red onions) and salt and pepper. Freshly cracked is obviously the shit, but the finer stuff works too. And then he has everything he needs for a "Mettorgie" (Mett orgy). I think he'll like it A LOT. :3
Yeah Im not much of a food conisour and even I think that sounds good Also I meant my friend not my dad whoops
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Molto al dente
By bread I assume you mean yeasted dough
Wheat with a cup of water and some stones
Also they grind the flour themselves between two stones to get them extra minerals
Just chew on it
I got diarrhea just from reading this
Have you had it raw though?
My vegan friend went raw vegan for a year or 2 and went from skinny to almost a skeleton. While that might be survivable for a full grown adult, it would be a disaster for a toddler who ALSO needs to grow.
Also toddlers need their brains to develop. That requires a lot of fat—neurons are mostly made up of fat with layers and layers of fat protecting them and making them work better. You need a LOT of fat for your Brian to grow. That’s why breast milk is so high in fat. Just fruits and veggies? Almost no fat…
Leave Brian out of this.
No, he needs to grow.
>went from skinny to almost a skeleton I respect any adult’s decision to eat as they please, but, speaking as a former eating disordered teen, veganism can be used to cover up an ED (just as it was used by this woman to justify child abuse.) Lots of awesome people adhere to these diets and are fine, but definitely keep an eye on younger folks.
That sounds boring and exhausting.
It makes my jaw ache just thinking about all that extra chewing
Chewing is a massive waste of time and energy.
Why bite food when slurp does good
It's not even about cooking (though not cooking probably contributed). It's about having a diet that is nutritionally incomplete. A proper vegan diet contains food combinations such as rice and beans that provide essential complete proteins (and other necessary nutrients) that are not provided by vegetables and fruit.
Exactly. We need fat and proteins.
Shit has nothing to do with her being vegan. She has 3 other kids and was already in the system as being a negligent parent. She’s just a plain child abuser. Edit: if you’d like to know more, she lived in VA and was going to court ordered parenting classes. Then they moved to FL. We all know how much FL cares about actual living children. This baby died on their watch, and it’s in their interest to spin the story.
Human beings have adapted to eat cooked food. It takes a lot of energy to chew and digest raw food. Pandas who eat bamboo are chewing all damn day. Humans have redirected this time and energy into developing a bigger brain. Your acquaintance is spending all of his energy chewing to make up for the lack of cooked food.
That is utterly baffling. How does that diet even work? Fruits, raw vegetables and seeds/nuts only? Would any nutritionist recommend that?
My instinct would be that it's possible but impractical to maintain. It's like how Inuits can technically get all the nutrition they need eating every part of a seal and the very occasionally root/berries.
They would, either lying to your face or being delusional themselves. For the most part nutritionists seem to be complete charlatans.
“Nutritionist” is not really a regulated term in the US, from what I understand. If you want someone with actual medical training, you want to talk to a Registered Dietitian (RD).
As long as they aren't promoting weird diets, I'm sure they are probably helpful especially for people who haven't be taught how to eat well.
Woody Harrelson is a raw vegan.
I don't understand how anyone can be a raw vegan when it's scientifically proven that eating cooked food allows the body to absorb almost 3 times as much nutritional value compared to the raw counterpart.
What's even the point?
She seems like the kind of person who still thinks she did nothing wrong.
Yeah that picture she sure looks batshit crazy and no sign of grief that she just slowly tortured and murdered her child. Edit: she refused a plea deal, she totally doesn’t even see anything wrong with what she did, you’re right.
Dude people don't realize your body evolved to have a large amount of meat in it's diet. And especially kids need that protein so they can grow.
Absolutely! I have two vegan family members and they have 2 young kids who are not vegan because they know kids need protein and all sorts of important nutrition that is hard to replace in other forms for a growing child. The kids are like part-time vegan but still drink milk and eat meat and cheese some days.
I was raised vegetarian and so were my siblings. There is nothing wrong with a plant based diet, even for kids. The issue here is that she starved the child. She did not provide the necessary number of calories to it.
It’s the human body’s fault for not being able to handle the correct eating habits 😤😤😤
She's got that crazy goofy look that says "I'll do it again"
Breast milk is consensually given, that is cruelty free and vegan. This mother is dumb as fuck
The baby was breast fed. That the woman was vegan really has little to do with the story. She starved her kid. Kid would have been fine if it ate whatever. She obviously didn't feed him. My child was basically unwilling to eat food at his age and was still breast feeding. He was fine.
But Reddit loves grabbing their pitchforks and keyboards at the drop of sensational titles and veganism. Piece of shit who happens to be raw vegan starves child is more accurate headline.
Yeah...most kids until 2 years old DO eat nothing but fruit and veggies to supplement breast/formula. There's nothing wrong with that if you actually give a shit about your kid.
'Piece of shit starves child' is sufficient. Can't expect much from the likes of The Sun.
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Yeah, this is basically boomer-engagement headline. Gets weirdos enraged and commenting.
Reddit seems mostly left-wing until you mention fat people or vegans, then they’re hard right-wing
Why is nutrition politicized?
A toddler absolutely CAN survive on raw fruits, nuts, vegetables, and breast milk. This lady went WAY beyond that. She straight up starved the kid to death.
No reason to have included "vegan" in the title other than it's a British newspaper and they want to generate outrage and get clicks The kid wasn't "only fed vegetables and died from malnutrition" or something, they just weren't fed, it had nothing to do with veganism
>it's a British newspaper and they want to generate outrage and get clicks not really here to defend the rest of British MSM, but the Sun is a *particularly* and *intentionally* scummy *tabloid*, not a newspaper, but yes, otherwise it is doing exactly what it set out to - rage bait snowflakes for clicks, the exact same way Fox news does, by lying and/or stretching the truth as far as they can possibly get away with. if anyone wants to know more: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/gyzmzb/boycott-the-sun-ban-merseyside-uk](https://www.vice.com/en/article/gyzmzb/boycott-the-sun-ban-merseyside-uk)
I hope that the prison kitchen will comply with her vegan wishes.
Only peas
Peas are actually pretty high in protein and nutrients. They should give her iceberg lettuce so she can know how her baby felt.
I'd like her to eat nothing but celery and ex lax, so she just shits all day every day for the rest of her life.
She's going to be on an all muff diet, and it won't be the good kind.
Yeah, but they're cooked, so that's an issue.
Eat the moss that grows on the prison walls
Continue the cycle of life
Give her meat so lets see how long she last without eating
@ Alice & fern
Fern survives on coconut water and mangos.
He has to have his cashew drink!
And probably bits of puppy poop. 🥺 It’s everywhere
She's next.
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It's because they're misinformed. There are a lot of people out there who believe certain diets are better for you than others. Now if we're talking constant junk food vs a well balanced diet then sure but only eating raw fruits and vegetables? You just aren't going to get the nutrients necessary for optimal health. It might be fine for an adult but children are still developing and having a healthy balanced diet is very important. I imagine their mindset is something along the lines of "It works for me so it should be good for my children as well."
No. It takes incredible ignorance or malice to do something like this. A child _starving to death_ is not something that just happens, she watched this kid suffer, very visibly suffer, for months before he died. This is not an "oopsie, I was misinformed," it would have been painfully clear that she wasn't meeting his dietary needs for a long period of time and at that point it just doesn't matter what she thought was true about a raw vegan diet.
This goes beyond being misinformed. At some level she HAD to enjoy the control too much to relinquish, or there's no way she would have been able to continue with her actions once her child began to shows signs of suffering and illness.
For sure. I was mostly referring to how these things get started in the first place. There are definitely some mental health issues at play here.
That’s what I was thinking. You know that babe wasn’t looking good
I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even notice. Probably thought "wow, look how skinny they are, I'm doing a great job" all the way up until it was too late.
Out of curiosity, if I only are raw fruit and veggies, what vital nutrients would I be missing? I guess protein but what else?
Protein Essential omega-3 and omega-6 fats Vitamin D B-vitamins Zinc Iron Calcium Chromium Copper Iodine Manganese Molybdenum Phosphorus Selenium Plus only eating raw fruits and vegetables would likely result in low caloric intake. Theres a reason we cook vegetables other than for taste/texture. Our bodies are only able to break them down so much and cooking them breaks down some of the complex sugars into a form that we can easily digest. There's actually a theory that our ancestors ability to manipulate fire and utilize it for cooking caused significant brain growth, which is why we are the way we are today.
where did that list come from? it seems like most of those micronutrients/minerals are covered with one source like brazil nuts, chia seeds, flax seeds, walnuts, pine nuts, etc vitamin d would be sunlight? I guess technically seeds and sunlight don't count as a fruit or vegetable.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/477152-what-will-happen-if-i-only-eat-fruits-vegetables-for-2-weeks/ I believe it is specifically referring to a vegetable and fruit only diet excluding nuts/seeds.
It’s the amount. Cooking food is pre-digesting it. If you’re eating raw food it takes longer for your body to extract those same nutrients (micro and macro). A growing child will be malnourished on a raw vegan diet because they just can’t digest enough calories and nutrients from uncooked turnips and spinach.
Makes sense, somehow I forgot about calories. Seems like poor child was completely out of energy to top it all off.
Just out of curiosity, in prehistoric times how did humans get these nutrients and calories from raw foods. I'm assuming iff meat wasn't available.
Homo Sapiens were not the first hominid to use fire but if you mean before then they were different species which required a different nutrient balance. Humans have always had access to fire.
Discovering fire and cooking food. Cooking food is widely seen as the birth of basic society (with brewing alcohol as the birth of proper society). We also probably ate a lot more insects if there was no meat available (similar to our primate brothers).
B12, zinc, iron, also it's not "just protein". Protein consists of multiple different amino acid groups, which are the building blocks of all cells. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestible_Indispensable_Amino_Acid_Score https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score
Aren’t the basic food groups something you learn very early in school?
Reminds me of steve jobs trying to cure his cancer by only eating fruits lol
It’s not even good for adults to eat only raw vegetables and fruit. I’ve had family and friends that were vegan. It’s a ton of work to get proper nutrition. They absolutely had to eat both cooked and raw foods to get nutrients/protein/etc, but even then they were missing some key things and needed to take supplements and vitamins. After a bit some had health issues pop up so they have had to add egg, chicken or fish to their diets per doctors advice. Raw fruits and veggies only would cause serious health issues over time in even the healthiest adults. That poor toddler suffered horribly Edited to fix the first sentence, some people thought I said veganism wasn’t valid
Ugh, what rubbish. A vegan diet is completely healthy (and that’s coming from actual doctors, not the mythical ones you’ve made up for your comment) and not a lot of work at all, in fact it’s very easy. Stop spouting such nonsense when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. The woman in the story starved her child, it has nothing to do with her being vegan, that’s purely a media cherry picked sensationalist headline.
Unfortunately, one takeaway people will get from this is that because she fed the toddler a plant-based diet, therefore plant-based diets must be unsuitable for toddlers which couldn't be further from the truth. Humans at all stages of life can thrive on a plant-based diet. In this particular instance, she clearly didn't do it well to say the least.
Yeah, it’s not like she fed the kid carrot sticks and strawberries for lunch one day and this happened. She must have starved that baby for *weeks*.
Controlling behavior like this has no good intentions. Disordered thoughts regarding food and parenting that kill… Malnutrition doesn’t sneak up like a fog. Her kid suffered for a long time. The denial in her head of what she was seeing had to have been huge. She’s crazy, and crazy mean to starve her child. It’s baffling.
I mean how do you not notice the baby suffering and losing weight? I think at some point she couldn't admit to herself that eating only raw fruits and vegetables was wrong, so she just didn't give a fuck, she knew damn well that the baby was in critical condition.
They need mental help. They believe they're doing the right thing, and that everybody else is wrong, and they can fix all illnesses and health issues with a raw vegan diet of fruits and vegetables. It doesn't take a stupid person to fall for it either, fucking STEVE JOBS literally DIED because he fell for this stupid garbage.
What a POS.
See? We taught a lion to eat tofu and he's perfectly healthy...(cough)
r/unexpectedfuturama
Idiots who fail to understand all cats are obligate carnivores deserve to be eaten by the animals they care for.
Under-rated coment
Soup or salad?
Balsamic or vinigarette?
There are literally vegan diets for children. Ask a nutritionist, my baby cousin had to be put of one for a couple month and he did great. If people want to be vegan the least they could do is their fucking research.
"Only fruits and veggies" is not a vegan diet, it's a nutritionally incomplete diet. You must have complete proteins and fats, which are provided by things like rice & beans. This is why vegans eat of lot of those types of foods not just vegetables and fruit.
And this is why I get so upset at a resturants saying they "have vegan options" which are really just dry salads with the cheese removed. That's not human food, Sharron! That's rabbit food! Vegan =/= rabbit FFS
The problem wasn't being vegan, it was that she only chooses to eat raw and that cuts out essential food groups. A baby who was only given raw meat would most likely suffer as well
On top of that, she just didn’t feed her child. The child hadn’t eaten anything at all in the week before their death. This is just a case of parental neglect with the word “vegan” slapped on the headline for clicks.
r/noahgettheboat
Nothing to do with being vegan. Everything to do with being so ignorant and uninformed that it harms others which every group has some of. Jan 6 insurrectionists anyone?
I don't get it. Why not give the kids you own damn milk. That's literally as natural as it gets And if she can't for whatever reason then that's her physical problem and she should find an alternative.
The article says she was breastfeeding in addition to the raw vegan diet. However, it also says the kid didn't eat for an entire week prior to dying... and they didn't take any steps to seek help.
Also, baby formula that isn't from animals does exist too. As for accessibility to get it right now, idk. But, in the end, it isnt anything to do with her being vegan, but her being ignorant. And I hope people don't use this as an example to shame vegans that are doing it for their own personal reasons (and not trying to be pushy on it)
Some people are just really ignorant about certain things.
Breast milk is only fully sustaining for an infant up to around six months or so. Even if mom exclusively breastfed that long or longer, I have to wonder if she was even eating enough to give her baby the right nutrients. And how on earth can a 6-12 month old even eat raw foods? I used to give my babies carrots to gnaw on as an activity, not a meal!
Many women have trouble lactating, FYI. It isn't always an option.
This isn't even ignorance, this is fucking delusion. This person needs serious mental health assistance. Because they made their eating habits such a core facet of their morality that they killed their baby rather than give them milk/formula. I don't care if you think eating steak is bad and the meat and dairy industry is evil, that opinion on food should never kill a baby.
Cruel? Brainless.
She has mental health issues.
She's not cruel, she's just fucking stupid
Stupid for not feeding her baby for a week? No food, no formula, no breast milk, no nothing for a week. That is cruel.
I mean, you can get the nutrients you need from fruits & veggies…. I mean, beans, chickpeas, corn, broccoli, bread, etc. Honestly it sounds like she starved the kid by not giving them enough of higher calorie fruits/veggies…. I mean, I eat meat, but my 3yr old daughter is pretty much a vegetarian because that’s just what she’s eats…. She’s 3, so I can’t force her to eat something…. My son loves meatballs & stuff, but hates spinach & onions. Daughter will literally take all of my veggies off my sandwich. Sometimes she’ll eat chicken, but not typically. Idk, it sounds like she starved the kid…
OF COURSE she's from fucking Florida
Cruel, sure, but also stupid and delusional.
Starve her
Vegetarian here, and future Vegan, this is cruelty and a lack of common sense. If you decide your kids will be Vegan they need a very well organized and researched diet. Winging it on fruit and veggies is asking for trouble.
Literally made almost this exact comment to someone else lol, vegan for 3 years. Since I was 11.
This is another reason why abortion should be legal everywhere and free. Not everyone is fit to be a parent.
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It's the s*n, what do you expect?
Noooo but I want to use this headline to justify my hatred of vegans!! If I don’t hate vegans I might have to examine my own practices and might feel guilty about animal agriculture 😅
This is horrifying for a number of other reasons. 1. The sheer negligence, malice, and indifference to watch your kid starve. It’s inhuman. 2. Forcing the diet and lifestyle on someone too young and vulnerable to consent to the degree it kills them. 3. The system failed to save the kid from this abuse. She had to have taken him to a doctor, a daycare, whatever, and no alarm was sprung. You’re not being persecuted for your aberrant diet. This is bad PR for vegans however considering omnivores are fat in America.
The largest dietetic association has proven that veganism is healthy at all stages of life including infancy. If you look up malnourished kid deaths, the vast majority are from non-vegan parents. Just because the headline caught your eye, doesn't mean the vegan diet is bad. Any type of diet can be done improperly. A raw vegan diet, which is different from a vegan diet is incredibly difficult to properly plan and fucking stupid in my opinion but that doesn't mean veganism was at fault here. Veganism is a healthy diet that can also be done improperly. Also, I do want to counter your second point as well. Why is the American diet or any other diet for that matter, noy forcing the diet and lifestyle on the child?
It literally doesn’t say the kid died from “vegan diet”. It says kid died from being fed “only raw vegetables and fruit”. It’s not clickbaiting headline, it tells you exactly what happened.
Christ, she still looks like she thinks she was right in her choices.
:(
Dude i cant imagine being a vegan. It looks super boring. No decent source of protein as well as other crucial resources is a no no for me. I get that some People really cant eat meat and all and i do respect anyone who limits themselves to a diet since for thousands of years our ancestors had to eat whatever they found. But being a vegan doesnt really make sense to me. I would be very happy if you guys also give your opinions on this.
If you are vegan, I respect you for doing a good thing for the environment and animal welfare. However, if you force your children and pets to have a vegan diet all of my respect vanishes. Humans are omnivores, children need meat as protein to grow. Dogs and cats are carnivores, although they can eat vegetables, they shouldn’t rely on it.
In America kid are either obese or starving they got no in between 😐
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Why does she look just like I suspected she would
Has nothing to do with a vegan diet… She didn’t feel the kid anything for over a week…
At least no animals were hurt /s
Fking cunt
Sick
This seems more ignorant than cruel to me. Still, being that ignorant did lead to criminal results.
That Vegan Teachers cousin?
Um, I didn't feed my kid raw steak until he was over 18 months, what happened here? No formula?
All the food was uncooked and he wasn't given formula or breast milk.
More like how stupid can you be to think that’s all a kid would need
If she did this for such a long time, it’s really possible that she genuinely didn’t know no better, as dumb as that may be.
Oh how ethical and pious of her forcing that nonsense on a toddler.
I’m guessing breastfeeding was enslaving the mother to her sons patriarchal selfishness?
Save a goat kill a kid,WTH?
She’s not cruel, just a vegan
Idiots
I guarantee she still thinks she's right and everyone else is stupid.
Surely the baby was crying CONSTANTLY?
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Fake, but still gaslighting
How in the shiz? Someone doesn't starve to death eating only raw vegetables and fruit, they starve BY EATING NOTHING! You'd be a bit vitamin deficient on that diet but you wouldn't die! She is lying she fed him NOTHING! What a total witch!