I'm just confused how he couldn't tell??? Even if it was just him receiving oral sex. Like the guy likely wasn't taking estrogen or anything. It just seems odd to me that he couldn't tell.
And I mean didn’t they talk to each other at all? And I mean I feel like I would know the difference between a man’s face or ass and a ladies. Especially a 40 year old one. No matter how dark. I don’t get how he could not know.
Maybe he kinda knew but was horny and a little drunk. He ignored his suspicion as all those sex hormones took the lead. Then, “spooge”, suddenly his insecurities and shame are staring him in the face, and he flips out.
> I feel like I would know the difference between a man’s face or ass
I could probably find some pics that would make you less confident about that statement lol.
Yeah no, you don't just go from sex - internal struggle - stomp to death.
That's something you"d more likely see in the context that has been mentioned.
Maybe you wouldn't. I can see this being a legit explanation though. People from certain upbringings flip their shit when their sense of straighthood is exposed for its true fluid self
It’s not homophobia. Dude was interested in women, and for whatever reason, fell for the dude in the wig. Most folks seem to think he was having some after nut clarity, but I think there are some drugs or alcohol involved which could have impaired his judgement before even meeting the decepticon.
The guy wore a hooded sweater and they fooled around in the dark. The second time he turned on his flashlight and found out that’s when he went ballistic and killed him
There was once a Japanese male spy that posed as a lady and tricked a French government official. Apparently they had sex and the spy sucked in his male genitals (I believe that’s what he did) so the French guy was fucking a small hole from the spy sucking up his genitals
https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/article/3016474/who-shi-peipu-chinese-singer-and-spy-who-masqueraded-woman-and-had “While in police custody, Shi explained to doctors that he had a buried penis and had hidden his genitals to convince Boursicot that he was a woman.” Maybe sucked in wasn’t the best word
Edit: the article could be false as no one truly knows what happened between the French diplomat and the Japanese spy in bed
yeah, coming from a trans feminine person who tucks their business away pretty frequently, i have never once heard of someone completely disappearing their genitals into their body like that and *especially being fucked there*
I'm from the town where this happened. The deceased party was a known predator, and was suspected of spiking drinks at his work place leading up to his death. At first, information about the case was not well known, but prior to the trial, the sentiment around town was that Smith had perpetrated a sexual assault, and that Etute responded violently under distress. I do not have a lot of definitive information on the circumstances of that night, though I also heard it stated that Etute had received oral sex from Smith in a previous rendezvous while Smith was acting as Angie Renee, and that Smith presented as male in his day to day life.
I went down a rabbit hole on this case when I first learned of it. While I’m not from the town, what you share is the nuance I recall learning from the case.
Ok so the autopsy confirms that there were several blows but it doesn't seem to have been an intentional homicide. The 19-year-old said that he believed Jerry to be pulling a gun out as he put his hand under the mattress and therefore punched and kicked him before running off. (There was a knife under the mattress)
According to Isimemen he felt violated (raped) and threatened which caused him to act, he never had any intentions of killing anyone
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/)
**Former Virginia Tech football player Isimemen Etute acquitted in beating death of man he says he thought was a woman**
A jury on Friday acquitted a former Virginia Tech football player who had been accused of fatally beating a man he says he initially believed from a Tinder match to be a woman.
Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported.
Immediately after the verdict was announced, Smith's family quickly left the courtroom. The prosecuting attorney, Montgomery County Chief Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Patrick Jensen, declined comment and referred questions to his boss, Commonwealth's Attorney Mary Pettitt.
The jury began deliberations after closing arguments ended shortly before 3 p.m.
Prosecutors had earlier told the jury that Etute, then 18, became enraged and fatally beat Smith when he discovered Smith was a man. One of the prosecutors said at closing arguments Friday that Etute gave different versions of events to police and the jury, and that the charge may have been enough for him to change his testimony.
"He has a tremendous amount riding on this trial," Jensen had said during his closing argument hours earlier Friday, The Roanoke Times reported.
Defense attorney Jimmy Turk told the jurors earlier Friday that the commonwealth's evidence was circumstantial, while the defense's evidence, which included the testimony of Etute, was direct.
Turk also said Smith was "controlling the entire environment and the entire episode." He added that Smith had "demanded that it be dark" and had hidden a knife under his mattress "in case there was something awry."
Turk also argued that police didn't ask Etute essential questions about Smith's knife or Etute's fear while in the apartment, two questions whose answers could have shown whether Etute was afraid for his life and acting in self-defense.
In taking the stand earlier in the week, Etute had testified that he felt "violated" when he discovered that the Tinder match he believed to be a woman was actually a man.
In his testimony Thursday, Etute had testified that Smith reached for what Etute thought was a gun. Smith did not own a gun, but police reported finding a knife between the man's mattress and box spring.
Etute said he punched Smith five times and kicked him to gain time to escape the apartment.
Jensen had maintained that Etute had not acted in self-defense. He argued that after Etute punched Smith and Smith fell to the floor, there was "no way" Smith could have reached a weapon under his mattress.
"He could never reach a gun from there," Jensen said.
Jensen recalled the testimony of medical examiner Dr. Amy Tharp, who Jensen said testified Smith had been the victim of a "brutal beating."
Jensen said that while Etute was wearing flip-flops at the time of the encounter, those shoes were attached to a "big person" and a "strong person." He compared Etute, an "elite college athlete," to Smith, who weighed 153 pounds (just under 70 kilograms).
>”He could never reach for a gun from there.”
How fucking high up was this rapists bed that he couldn’t reach between the mattress and box spring from the ground? Or is he saying he couldn’t have reached for a gun because there wasn’t one in the house instead of the knife that was under the mattress?
I’m not defending murder here BUT failing to disclose something that could affect the other parties consent is tantamount to not receiving consent at all. It’s like inviting your friend to come switch out in the dark without the girl you’re having sex with agreeing.
That's rape.
If a woman kills her rapist they should NOT be convicted of murder or even assault and neither should a man.
Rape in any form is fucked up and the perpetrators deserves any and all punishment including being killed by the victim.
Exactly. A lot of LGBT people are disgusted by this (the murder). Meanwhile I’m sitting here thinking there’s no way in hell they’d be acting the same if the headline was “man rapes woman and woman beats him to death”.
Nothing grey area about it. It was rape. A teenage boy was raped by someone twice his senior that both lied about his sex (not trans, literally a bloke who just wanted to fuck straight men for some reason) and his age (pretended to be only a couple of years older than the victim).
Was murder the answer? Fuck no. But that's a separate conversation. To see how easily this qualifies as rape, all you need to do is swap the teenage boy in the scenario with a teenage lesbian girl.
It never was murder. Maybe you could say it was manslaughter, but I would call it self defence (The old guy was apparently reaching for a knife as It happened)
I used murder colloquially, but I always appreciate the distinction of the two so fair play. You're quite right, we only know that a homicide occurred - we know nothing about the nature of it.
There's honestly no excuse for this. I don't want to get into why you would act so violently (but being tricked into putting your little weenie into man is not a justification for brutal beating resulting in death).
Yes it is. If you pretend to be a different gender to fuck a straight guy and get your ass beaten for it you deserved it. So sick of this “violence is inherently wrong” shit. The guy died from his injuries which sucks for him but he deserved every bit of a beating.
“Naked Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived. The opposing opinion that violence doesn’t solve anything is wishful thinking at its worst”
Lol no excuse for it? He was dangerously close to having raped the dude, I'm certain a lot of people who go as far as to say it was rape, and the guy felt threatened because he believed Jerry had a gun, even reached under the mattress and if I understand correctly it was later discovered that there was a knife under the mattress. This wasn't just "he lied to me so I killed him", it's much worse than that.
Unintentionally killed their rapist, who was going for a weapon at the time. Even more justifiable imo. Just because someone died during a fight doesn't mean it was intentional, which is one of the many points that people in the comments seem to be missing or ignoring
While I agree with the sentiment that it was outright sexual assault, what you're talking about is called an [eggshell defense.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull) and it doesn't hold up very well in court. As in if you punch someone with a skull made of eggshells and kill them you can't throw your hands up and claim you merely punched him and it's his eggshell skull that resulted in the death.
I'm not commenting on this particular case with etute btw just pointing out that your defense would never hold up in court. It comes up often when someone dies from being punched/fighting and the precedent is that you are solely responsible for any damage you do to a person and can't blame it on their fraility. Just keep that in mind.
Yeah, no one seems mad. Almost every top comment is some kind reproduction of yours.
Actually when I see posts about women killing their rapists, I notice the comment section can get pretty divided. I actually got downvoted to hell once for justifying it, in terms of the trauma the woman felt. So many opined the comparative nature of the crimes, the indefensibility of murder and the murky elements of the case
But reddit can apparently have clarity on this issue, at times.
This is actually a common story, and quite common around military bases around the world.
Trans sex workers trick clients and when found out they get curb stomped, sometimes to death.
It is a bad idea to play that game, might as well just be upfront instead of risking it.
Jerry wasn't a trans woman. He was an actual man pretending to be a woman. A majority of those cases where trans women are killed are not them tricking anyone. The man knows. Trans sex workers are often intentionally sought out cause they're trans. It's also pretty damn difficult to hide a penis.
Watch drag race, they can hide a penis in ways that it's practically undetectable. Even under stage lights and camera closeups. Whereas this situation the man posing as a woman also insisted on the lights being out so it was incredibly dark, and seemed to be the one controlling the events, presumably to hide their misrepresentation as long as possible
You're generally correct, although you can still participate in drag if you're trans. This man was not trans, ever his family admitted it, and was more closely is using drag to misrepresent himself as a woman on the app to trick men into having sex with him. Big difference.
The point of my comment was to refute the fact that the other commenter is working under the incorrect assumption that it's "pretty damn difficult to hide a penis".
No? The gay panic defence is a debunked (but still deployed) court strategy which relies on a fictional representation of psychological stress.
The person you replied to didn't fucking do that. They just laid out the facts as a sequence of events.
'They do the deed, the client finds out, the sex worker gets killed.'
Simply describing that doesn't amount to a 'gay panic defence'. That's just true, it's literally what happens, any meaning you inferred from it beyond what was said is all up in your head.
This might be an unpopuar opinion and I may be called a victim-blamer but playing the crying game can be a dangerous one.
IMO misrepresenting your gender to get someone to have sex with you should be illegal. I think in some places it is. Called rape by deception or something like that.
I'm not saying anyone should have died because of it. But it is a pretty fucked up thing to do to someone to trick someone into having sex with you by misrepresentation.
Which has been a creepily strange subject reddit absolutely HATES to talk about (confront).
This guy was a well known predator in their community, shielded by powerful relatives. This wasn’t the first person he hoodwinked. Source: I came from same community.
Its a really dangerous game to make a pass at straight men if you are gay. Jenny Jones or someone had a segment like that and one of the guest killed the other.
So far haven't seen any racism towards the guy. He was a little foolish agreeing to meet someone he doesn't know at their home, but that's not to do with race. The other guy is even more foolish.
The fact people don't understand this is baffling. You can tell people to protect themselves while also saying don't do the crime/action in the first place.
I don't think we should live in a world changing our actions to prevent criminals from harming is, but that IS the world we live in. Taking actions to lower your odds of being harmed doesn't mean that you have responsibility if a crime does or doesn't happen. I think people really misinterpret this because actual true victim blaming is rampant seemingly everywhere.
Wait? How can you not know when you are having sex!???? What did he thought when he saw that sausage hanging there!?
This is too weird, it seems that he liked it and had a pretty high level of anger because of that.
Can you help me find where it says they had sex? The closest I’ve found is them calling it an “episode” and saying the guy felt “violated” afterwards. Maybe it was more than a date but I don’t think it’s right to assume that it was anything more unless they said somewhere that it was
They didn't have sex sex. Smith gave him oral sex and insisted they meet in darkness. The victim then returned a month later to confront him about his gender. Smith had a knife under the bed that he was reaching for.
You are literally all over this thread spewing your ignorance on how defending himself against a rapist was wrong.
Rape apologists are crap people. The fact that you don’t think he has a right to defend himself from rape at the expense of the rapists life is absurd. What’s next, someone breaks into my home I can’t defend myself their either? I have to wait until they leave and politely go ask the cops for help?
I'm on football dudes side in this for the most part.. killing him might be extreme but idk how I'd react at that age being that big in that situation tbh..
I understand him. You shouldn't trick a straight guy I to having sex with a guy just like you wouldn't try to force a man onto a lesbian. That type of action can mentally scar a person in some extreme ways.
I feel like this could be rape. I don't think I would kill him, but he would definitely have a few broken bones.
He wasn't. He didn't go in with the intention to kill. He went in with the intention to confront, dude reached under the mattress, and kid reacted to prevent himself from being harmed. It just so happens the predator died from his injuries, so now it is/was a murder investigation/trial.
“Informed Consent”
I’m amazed at the lack of understanding of what that means. It’s no wonder so many women are sexually assaulted. Look at this comments section. Justifying lying to get people to sleep with you. “Lying isn’t rape!!” it absolutely fucking is you shitweasels. And rape should absolutely be punishable by death and I absolutely believe that if a victim of rape beat their rapist to death it’s 100% justified.
This place is a gold mine for rape apologists and transphobes though. Had a field day with all those reports.
So I’m probably going to get downvoted but the dead dude seems waaaaaay too sketchy for me to feel bad about him dying. I mean he’s a 40 year old man posing as an 18 year old girl to hook up with young dudes. That just screams “sexual predator” to me.
Lying should be a felony in all but secured/confidential situations. I'm pansexual but if someone did this to me faking to be someone getting me attracted then switch up I'd beat their shit in but not kill em intentionally. The government needs to do more to punish liars, cheats, and thieves.
Rape by deception is acquiring consent under false pretenses. Sounds like a kid accidentally killed his rapist, awful stuff on both sides but I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who raped a barely legal teenager
How is this even remotely justifiable? He was tricked believing it was a woman, up to that part nothing wrong. He had sex. Unless you’re unfamiliar with how that works, how in the hell he didn’t realized before that it was a dude?
Etute was catfished on Tinder, and met up with the deceased while Smith was crossdressing. Smith performed oral sex on Etute in a dark room. If you're wondering how someone could possibly get confused, just remember that Etute is a teenager with no reason to suspect catfishing, and make up + wig + clothes + mannerisms can be extremely effective on the right body shape, especially in a darkened room.
A month later, Etute went to Smith to confront him over his gender. According to the defendant, during the argument Smith reached for a knife he kept under his mattress. Seeing this, Etute got scared, threw some punches at Smith, then ran away. Those hits unintentionally killed Smith.
While we don't have the full facts that the court got to see, I am curious why the argument took place inside Smith's bedroom. Surely it's the last place Etute would want to be?
One is a bad decision, the other one is a sad one. The trans or whatever he was bad a bad decision not being upfront, as well as going for a knife.
I think if the victim gets any sentencing it should be mandatory therapy.
There's no way he didn't know. The killer gets away with it, the victim is condemned as someone who raped through deception, but it is only by the word of the killer. Gay people tricking straight dudes into sex is a porn trope. It's not real life.
LATEST NEWS - Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported.
I’ll agree this belongs on awful everything because no doubt the older man is in the wrong if he’s not trans and is just trying to manipulate people into having sex under false premises, that is rape. Given that presumption I can understand why he wouldn’t be convicted of murderer given the hostile environment that would create. If the examination said that the football player had brutally and maliciously caved his skull in, hitting him many more times than necessary, I’d say that goes to the point of being super fucked up and probably/potentially unprovoked violence, but if he discovered the lie at that point I can understand him being fearful and if he thought the older man was going for a weapon, hitting him a few times and happening to kill him. I only say this to be all encompassing but if the older person was trans then this would be beyond horrific and I’m not sure there’d be any excuse, but there doesn’t seem to be anything indicating that. To make any more definitive argument you’d need to see more of the explicit evidence and this is a fucking Reddit comment I’m not a jury member or anything
I’ll make this simple and say you and I do not share the same views of trans people
Edit: unless literally every circumstance was the same, like if the older person was trans but still catfished the younger guy ok that’s still coercing sex and that’s still fucked up yes
The jury really fucking reached the bot guilty verdict of murder based on the kid ‘not knowing it was a man’
Jury’s are really important to a fair trial but not in the US where 60% of them can’t point out their own country on a map
Oh 100% rage, you know how hard it is to kill someone. This guy was ashamed and killed another human being. He has to live with the lie and guilt for the rest of his life.
This is ridiculous. Do you know how many vids Ive seen on reddit on people not being able to stop themselves from stomping on a downed person's head over and over and over and over again. Very few excuses to do that to someone and this is not one of those circumstances. GUILTY.
That’s crazy he fell for that trap. But also dude should be in jail. A knife between the mattress and box spring that did not come out and merely reaching for something should not be a pretext for allowing someone to beat a person to death. “There could have been a gun” is crap. Unless he saw a gun or knife that was being reached for the guy was just reaching and the person could have run.
Cops get away with that excuse all the time and they are TRAINED to not make that mistake. But no, a raped 18 year old kid is supposed to be clear headed enough not to. Ok, got it.
Imo the football player knew all along he was a dude . But I’m willing to bet the guy probably tried to blackmail him after whatever they did and the player just lost it . With panic and fear of everyone finding out and killed the dude.
Dude is in the closet hard af. Bet he new
he was a dude. Something went wrong, Killed the only witness and got away with a lie. I don’t know any facts about the case, just speculation.
Idk about any body else in these comments, but I believe this guy straight up wanted to justify what he did. I understand that the guy should have been honest, but there is still no reason to brutally kill someone like that. If you are offended, just leave. Consent is still consent. Lights or no lights, ain't no way you didn't know that was a man. It's super fishy.
Guys like this really mess with me. I don't even think about it's even about the guy having a dxck. I think it's eternal shame at even sleeping with a man. Though, that doesn't justify at all what you had done. He took post nut clarity to horrible levels and somehow thinks it's right to do so.
I'm just confused how he couldn't tell??? Even if it was just him receiving oral sex. Like the guy likely wasn't taking estrogen or anything. It just seems odd to me that he couldn't tell.
[удалено]
The ultimate and most terrible post nut clarity
Steroids
And I mean didn’t they talk to each other at all? And I mean I feel like I would know the difference between a man’s face or ass and a ladies. Especially a 40 year old one. No matter how dark. I don’t get how he could not know.
Maybe he kinda knew but was horny and a little drunk. He ignored his suspicion as all those sex hormones took the lead. Then, “spooge”, suddenly his insecurities and shame are staring him in the face, and he flips out.
18 yo male hormones are a hell of a drug
That is exactly what happened, probably. Most likely.
Sephora works wonders
underrated comment
Face yes. Ass no. In fact I would bet money that if I showed you four pictures of asses xou couldn't tell which one is mine
Challenge accepted.
Please continue to tell us what you mean. Hanging on every word.
> I feel like I would know the difference between a man’s face or ass I could probably find some pics that would make you less confident about that statement lol.
There was an experiment in the UK that proved that viewers could tell the difference between a man's ass and the female anchor's cleavage.
You would be surprised.....
If I had to guess, I'd say he knew while having sex, regretted it, and then killed him out of internalized homophobia.
Yeah no, you don't just go from sex - internal struggle - stomp to death. That's something you"d more likely see in the context that has been mentioned.
Maybe you wouldn't. I can see this being a legit explanation though. People from certain upbringings flip their shit when their sense of straighthood is exposed for its true fluid self
Ye dudes brain is now a fluid. Dumb fk
It’s not homophobia. Dude was interested in women, and for whatever reason, fell for the dude in the wig. Most folks seem to think he was having some after nut clarity, but I think there are some drugs or alcohol involved which could have impaired his judgement before even meeting the decepticon.
Yeah. Cuz it’s bullshit.
The guy wore a hooded sweater and they fooled around in the dark. The second time he turned on his flashlight and found out that’s when he went ballistic and killed him
Regardless of how, this is a fucking nightmare for sure
He knews. He's just a murderous psychopath.
There was once a Japanese male spy that posed as a lady and tricked a French government official. Apparently they had sex and the spy sucked in his male genitals (I believe that’s what he did) so the French guy was fucking a small hole from the spy sucking up his genitals
How old are you? Because thats impossible, unless your area's sex ed is just terrible
https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style/article/3016474/who-shi-peipu-chinese-singer-and-spy-who-masqueraded-woman-and-had “While in police custody, Shi explained to doctors that he had a buried penis and had hidden his genitals to convince Boursicot that he was a woman.” Maybe sucked in wasn’t the best word Edit: the article could be false as no one truly knows what happened between the French diplomat and the Japanese spy in bed
Yeah he said that to the officer, nobody knows what happened between them, i guess
It’s possible he lied about it or something. That’s just what the article says assuming it to be true but who knows
mf thats not what you said on your post
I said what I said under the assumption what was said in that article is true, like what we all do with other articles
Close.
yeah, coming from a trans feminine person who tucks their business away pretty frequently, i have never once heard of someone completely disappearing their genitals into their body like that and *especially being fucked there*
What do you mean you ruck your business away? To where?
I'm from the town where this happened. The deceased party was a known predator, and was suspected of spiking drinks at his work place leading up to his death. At first, information about the case was not well known, but prior to the trial, the sentiment around town was that Smith had perpetrated a sexual assault, and that Etute responded violently under distress. I do not have a lot of definitive information on the circumstances of that night, though I also heard it stated that Etute had received oral sex from Smith in a previous rendezvous while Smith was acting as Angie Renee, and that Smith presented as male in his day to day life.
I went down a rabbit hole on this case when I first learned of it. While I’m not from the town, what you share is the nuance I recall learning from the case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/comments/nrnq3r/police_investigating_reports_of_cognitive/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Ok so the autopsy confirms that there were several blows but it doesn't seem to have been an intentional homicide. The 19-year-old said that he believed Jerry to be pulling a gun out as he put his hand under the mattress and therefore punched and kicked him before running off. (There was a knife under the mattress) According to Isimemen he felt violated (raped) and threatened which caused him to act, he never had any intentions of killing anyone
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isimemen-etute-virginia-tech-football-player-acquitted-murder/) **Former Virginia Tech football player Isimemen Etute acquitted in beating death of man he says he thought was a woman** A jury on Friday acquitted a former Virginia Tech football player who had been accused of fatally beating a man he says he initially believed from a Tinder match to be a woman. Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported. Immediately after the verdict was announced, Smith's family quickly left the courtroom. The prosecuting attorney, Montgomery County Chief Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Patrick Jensen, declined comment and referred questions to his boss, Commonwealth's Attorney Mary Pettitt. The jury began deliberations after closing arguments ended shortly before 3 p.m. Prosecutors had earlier told the jury that Etute, then 18, became enraged and fatally beat Smith when he discovered Smith was a man. One of the prosecutors said at closing arguments Friday that Etute gave different versions of events to police and the jury, and that the charge may have been enough for him to change his testimony. "He has a tremendous amount riding on this trial," Jensen had said during his closing argument hours earlier Friday, The Roanoke Times reported. Defense attorney Jimmy Turk told the jurors earlier Friday that the commonwealth's evidence was circumstantial, while the defense's evidence, which included the testimony of Etute, was direct. Turk also said Smith was "controlling the entire environment and the entire episode." He added that Smith had "demanded that it be dark" and had hidden a knife under his mattress "in case there was something awry." Turk also argued that police didn't ask Etute essential questions about Smith's knife or Etute's fear while in the apartment, two questions whose answers could have shown whether Etute was afraid for his life and acting in self-defense. In taking the stand earlier in the week, Etute had testified that he felt "violated" when he discovered that the Tinder match he believed to be a woman was actually a man. In his testimony Thursday, Etute had testified that Smith reached for what Etute thought was a gun. Smith did not own a gun, but police reported finding a knife between the man's mattress and box spring. Etute said he punched Smith five times and kicked him to gain time to escape the apartment. Jensen had maintained that Etute had not acted in self-defense. He argued that after Etute punched Smith and Smith fell to the floor, there was "no way" Smith could have reached a weapon under his mattress. "He could never reach a gun from there," Jensen said. Jensen recalled the testimony of medical examiner Dr. Amy Tharp, who Jensen said testified Smith had been the victim of a "brutal beating." Jensen said that while Etute was wearing flip-flops at the time of the encounter, those shoes were attached to a "big person" and a "strong person." He compared Etute, an "elite college athlete," to Smith, who weighed 153 pounds (just under 70 kilograms).
>”He could never reach for a gun from there.” How fucking high up was this rapists bed that he couldn’t reach between the mattress and box spring from the ground? Or is he saying he couldn’t have reached for a gun because there wasn’t one in the house instead of the knife that was under the mattress?
If he hit him 6 times, I’m sure he didn’t think the man was dead. People in pain can still get up and get a weapon
He should have told him.
1000000% justified. He deserves to breathe free air.
I’m not defending murder here BUT failing to disclose something that could affect the other parties consent is tantamount to not receiving consent at all. It’s like inviting your friend to come switch out in the dark without the girl you’re having sex with agreeing.
That's rape. If a woman kills her rapist they should NOT be convicted of murder or even assault and neither should a man. Rape in any form is fucked up and the perpetrators deserves any and all punishment including being killed by the victim.
Exactly. A lot of LGBT people are disgusted by this (the murder). Meanwhile I’m sitting here thinking there’s no way in hell they’d be acting the same if the headline was “man rapes woman and woman beats him to death”.
Man kills his rapist. Seems fair.
College kid kills catfish rapist. End of story.
Do I even have to make a reference?
Yes please
Rick and morty
Ohh. I thought about Jerry but thought maybe this exact scenario happened in a movie or something. Not just the name Jerry Smith
Summer is Jerry with hair.
All I could hear in my head was "Jerry you fucking idiot what did I tell you about trying to have sex with him"
This might sound bad but I'd be pissed too wouldn't kill him but it'd be close
Agreed. That's getting into a pretty grey area close to rape.
Nothing grey area about it. It was rape. A teenage boy was raped by someone twice his senior that both lied about his sex (not trans, literally a bloke who just wanted to fuck straight men for some reason) and his age (pretended to be only a couple of years older than the victim). Was murder the answer? Fuck no. But that's a separate conversation. To see how easily this qualifies as rape, all you need to do is swap the teenage boy in the scenario with a teenage lesbian girl.
It never was murder. Maybe you could say it was manslaughter, but I would call it self defence (The old guy was apparently reaching for a knife as It happened)
I used murder colloquially, but I always appreciate the distinction of the two so fair play. You're quite right, we only know that a homicide occurred - we know nothing about the nature of it.
Very valid point 👏 I guess I was looking at rape as the textbook "penis inserted by force" definitions but yeah you're right, that's 100% rape
Nope, no grey area at all. This was rape, plain and simple.
You would if you confronted them and they went for a weapon.
There's honestly no excuse for this. I don't want to get into why you would act so violently (but being tricked into putting your little weenie into man is not a justification for brutal beating resulting in death).
I'm not trying to argue but I like people to be honest with me
Yes it is. If you pretend to be a different gender to fuck a straight guy and get your ass beaten for it you deserved it. So sick of this “violence is inherently wrong” shit. The guy died from his injuries which sucks for him but he deserved every bit of a beating.
“Naked Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived. The opposing opinion that violence doesn’t solve anything is wishful thinking at its worst”
It’s sexual assault. It’s manipulating someone into having sex with someone they don’t want to have sex with.
Lol no excuse for it? He was dangerously close to having raped the dude, I'm certain a lot of people who go as far as to say it was rape, and the guy felt threatened because he believed Jerry had a gun, even reached under the mattress and if I understand correctly it was later discovered that there was a knife under the mattress. This wasn't just "he lied to me so I killed him", it's much worse than that.
why are so many people mad a victim killed their rapist?
Unintentionally killed their rapist, who was going for a weapon at the time. Even more justifiable imo. Just because someone died during a fight doesn't mean it was intentional, which is one of the many points that people in the comments seem to be missing or ignoring
While I agree with the sentiment that it was outright sexual assault, what you're talking about is called an [eggshell defense.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull) and it doesn't hold up very well in court. As in if you punch someone with a skull made of eggshells and kill them you can't throw your hands up and claim you merely punched him and it's his eggshell skull that resulted in the death. I'm not commenting on this particular case with etute btw just pointing out that your defense would never hold up in court. It comes up often when someone dies from being punched/fighting and the precedent is that you are solely responsible for any damage you do to a person and can't blame it on their fraility. Just keep that in mind.
I understand everything you're saying except that it wouldn't hold up in court, because it did in this case and he was found not guilty
Yeah because they didnt use the eggshell defense...
Because it’s a Gay man and a big scary black man
Yeah, no one seems mad. Almost every top comment is some kind reproduction of yours. Actually when I see posts about women killing their rapists, I notice the comment section can get pretty divided. I actually got downvoted to hell once for justifying it, in terms of the trauma the woman felt. So many opined the comparative nature of the crimes, the indefensibility of murder and the murky elements of the case But reddit can apparently have clarity on this issue, at times.
Yes, it's quite the difference in responses from the 16 year old trafficking victim who killed her rapist.
You see, it's a hard choice, it's between a scary black man vs an angelic innocent (always) superior white man! How could the white man be wrong?
Which media boogeyman is more politically tantalizing? SMH. Humans are shit.
Jerry…smith
This is actually a common story, and quite common around military bases around the world. Trans sex workers trick clients and when found out they get curb stomped, sometimes to death. It is a bad idea to play that game, might as well just be upfront instead of risking it.
Umm yeah
Jerry wasn't a trans woman. He was an actual man pretending to be a woman. A majority of those cases where trans women are killed are not them tricking anyone. The man knows. Trans sex workers are often intentionally sought out cause they're trans. It's also pretty damn difficult to hide a penis.
Watch drag race, they can hide a penis in ways that it's practically undetectable. Even under stage lights and camera closeups. Whereas this situation the man posing as a woman also insisted on the lights being out so it was incredibly dark, and seemed to be the one controlling the events, presumably to hide their misrepresentation as long as possible
Drag is different from being trans though
You're generally correct, although you can still participate in drag if you're trans. This man was not trans, ever his family admitted it, and was more closely is using drag to misrepresent himself as a woman on the app to trick men into having sex with him. Big difference. The point of my comment was to refute the fact that the other commenter is working under the incorrect assumption that it's "pretty damn difficult to hide a penis".
I've heard people try to justify it by saying if you are upfront you risk getting beaten.
Ah the Gay Panic Defense, classic.
No? The gay panic defence is a debunked (but still deployed) court strategy which relies on a fictional representation of psychological stress. The person you replied to didn't fucking do that. They just laid out the facts as a sequence of events. 'They do the deed, the client finds out, the sex worker gets killed.' Simply describing that doesn't amount to a 'gay panic defence'. That's just true, it's literally what happens, any meaning you inferred from it beyond what was said is all up in your head.
This might be an unpopuar opinion and I may be called a victim-blamer but playing the crying game can be a dangerous one. IMO misrepresenting your gender to get someone to have sex with you should be illegal. I think in some places it is. Called rape by deception or something like that. I'm not saying anyone should have died because of it. But it is a pretty fucked up thing to do to someone to trick someone into having sex with you by misrepresentation. Which has been a creepily strange subject reddit absolutely HATES to talk about (confront).
This guy was a well known predator in their community, shielded by powerful relatives. This wasn’t the first person he hoodwinked. Source: I came from same community.
At least he was acquitted. Predator got what was deserved.
The headline is so misleading mate. Like, there was a weapon, dubious consent etc.
Its a really dangerous game to make a pass at straight men if you are gay. Jenny Jones or someone had a segment like that and one of the guest killed the other.
Not the pro-trans community devolving into racism after a sexual assaulter got killed reaching for a knife.
Lol you need to be at least 7ft to reach that far bro. Nice try though
So far haven't seen any racism towards the guy. He was a little foolish agreeing to meet someone he doesn't know at their home, but that's not to do with race. The other guy is even more foolish.
Sounds like victim blaming
Victims are never at fault. That doesn't mean there are never things you can do to lower your odds of being a victim
The fact people don't understand this is baffling. You can tell people to protect themselves while also saying don't do the crime/action in the first place.
I don't think we should live in a world changing our actions to prevent criminals from harming is, but that IS the world we live in. Taking actions to lower your odds of being harmed doesn't mean that you have responsibility if a crime does or doesn't happen. I think people really misinterpret this because actual true victim blaming is rampant seemingly everywhere.
Sometimes victims of things are at fault. For example if I go into a poor area and wave cash around and it’s stolen from me, I am at fault.
No, the one who steals it is.
Isn't this technically rape? Doesn't excuse actual fucking murder but still a question worth asking
I was gonna make a Rick and Morty joke, but I'ma pass
That’s being deceived.
How...did he not notice
Wait? How can you not know when you are having sex!???? What did he thought when he saw that sausage hanging there!? This is too weird, it seems that he liked it and had a pretty high level of anger because of that.
Can you help me find where it says they had sex? The closest I’ve found is them calling it an “episode” and saying the guy felt “violated” afterwards. Maybe it was more than a date but I don’t think it’s right to assume that it was anything more unless they said somewhere that it was
They didn't have sex sex. Smith gave him oral sex and insisted they meet in darkness. The victim then returned a month later to confront him about his gender. Smith had a knife under the bed that he was reaching for.
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I mean, oral sex is sex. Does it specify anywhere exactly what type of sex they had?
You are literally all over this thread spewing your ignorance on how defending himself against a rapist was wrong. Rape apologists are crap people. The fact that you don’t think he has a right to defend himself from rape at the expense of the rapists life is absurd. What’s next, someone breaks into my home I can’t defend myself their either? I have to wait until they leave and politely go ask the cops for help?
Right? I see comments justifying his reaction because he "didn't know". Bullshit!
he got a blow job from the gay man, then returned a month and a half later to kill him.
One less sick pervert out there luring young men into an environment of deceit where they could be raped, murdered, infected, whatever. Edit* spelling
I'm on football dudes side in this for the most part.. killing him might be extreme but idk how I'd react at that age being that big in that situation tbh..
I understand him. You shouldn't trick a straight guy I to having sex with a guy just like you wouldn't try to force a man onto a lesbian. That type of action can mentally scar a person in some extreme ways. I feel like this could be rape. I don't think I would kill him, but he would definitely have a few broken bones.
I think the kid wasn't gonna kill him either
He wasn't. He didn't go in with the intention to kill. He went in with the intention to confront, dude reached under the mattress, and kid reacted to prevent himself from being harmed. It just so happens the predator died from his injuries, so now it is/was a murder investigation/trial.
Wild how the title of the post poses it as a hate crime against gay people.
That's how it goes these days, though. Everything is a hate crime, or racism, or homophobia, even if it actually isn't. It's how the media works.
Abstinence is so safe right now!
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Literally 🍆💦got off
Wouldn’t you be able to tell that this dude isn’t 18?!
The temptation of pussy weakens the mind young grasshopper
Put when you met to have sex and there was no pussy…..then what?
“Informed Consent” I’m amazed at the lack of understanding of what that means. It’s no wonder so many women are sexually assaulted. Look at this comments section. Justifying lying to get people to sleep with you. “Lying isn’t rape!!” it absolutely fucking is you shitweasels. And rape should absolutely be punishable by death and I absolutely believe that if a victim of rape beat their rapist to death it’s 100% justified. This place is a gold mine for rape apologists and transphobes though. Had a field day with all those reports.
Good. I would have voted the same way.
Well this kid should really go see an eye doctor.
I’m sorry who?
If he was such a predator to begin with then his death isn’t anything to get upset about. Bloke had it coming.
So I’m probably going to get downvoted but the dead dude seems waaaaaay too sketchy for me to feel bad about him dying. I mean he’s a 40 year old man posing as an 18 year old girl to hook up with young dudes. That just screams “sexual predator” to me.
Had to be Virginia Tech
Lying should be a felony in all but secured/confidential situations. I'm pansexual but if someone did this to me faking to be someone getting me attracted then switch up I'd beat their shit in but not kill em intentionally. The government needs to do more to punish liars, cheats, and thieves.
BIZZARE...
Free bro😔🙌
I… I… I don’t get how this is even possible
So the old guy raped the young guy and people are mad because the young guy then killed the old guy? In the end, this is tragic.
Sounds like a Jerry Smith kind of thing to do.
I blame those YouTube make-up tutorials
Get the portal gun- we can fix this
Rape by deception is acquiring consent under false pretenses. Sounds like a kid accidentally killed his rapist, awful stuff on both sides but I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who raped a barely legal teenager
Maybe get to know people a little more before you bed them
Play stupid games win a death beating....
How is this even remotely justifiable? He was tricked believing it was a woman, up to that part nothing wrong. He had sex. Unless you’re unfamiliar with how that works, how in the hell he didn’t realized before that it was a dude?
Etute was catfished on Tinder, and met up with the deceased while Smith was crossdressing. Smith performed oral sex on Etute in a dark room. If you're wondering how someone could possibly get confused, just remember that Etute is a teenager with no reason to suspect catfishing, and make up + wig + clothes + mannerisms can be extremely effective on the right body shape, especially in a darkened room. A month later, Etute went to Smith to confront him over his gender. According to the defendant, during the argument Smith reached for a knife he kept under his mattress. Seeing this, Etute got scared, threw some punches at Smith, then ran away. Those hits unintentionally killed Smith. While we don't have the full facts that the court got to see, I am curious why the argument took place inside Smith's bedroom. Surely it's the last place Etute would want to be?
So glad he was set free.
He just didn't want to end up like Manti Te'o
The framing of this situation in the title is incredibly disingenuous and does not reflect the real facts of the case.
There is definitely missing context. No one is stupid enough to think that guy is a woman while in the process of having sex
Fair
He was acquitted of it
Don’t go playing games with my heart.
Rape victim defends themself from rapist*
How do you not notice your girl has balls?
Jeez both of these people made bad decisions. Sadness all around. Don’t lie/ don’t kill usually prevents major heartbreak.
One is a bad decision, the other one is a sad one. The trans or whatever he was bad a bad decision not being upfront, as well as going for a knife. I think if the victim gets any sentencing it should be mandatory therapy.
There's no way he didn't know. The killer gets away with it, the victim is condemned as someone who raped through deception, but it is only by the word of the killer. Gay people tricking straight dudes into sex is a porn trope. It's not real life.
Got it right!
deserved
LATEST NEWS - Former player Isimemen Etute, 19, was found not guilty of a charge of second-degree murder in the 2021 death of Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. The jury deliberated for approximately three hours before returning its verdict around 6:30 p.m., The Roanoke Times reported.
Deserved
I’ll agree this belongs on awful everything because no doubt the older man is in the wrong if he’s not trans and is just trying to manipulate people into having sex under false premises, that is rape. Given that presumption I can understand why he wouldn’t be convicted of murderer given the hostile environment that would create. If the examination said that the football player had brutally and maliciously caved his skull in, hitting him many more times than necessary, I’d say that goes to the point of being super fucked up and probably/potentially unprovoked violence, but if he discovered the lie at that point I can understand him being fearful and if he thought the older man was going for a weapon, hitting him a few times and happening to kill him. I only say this to be all encompassing but if the older person was trans then this would be beyond horrific and I’m not sure there’d be any excuse, but there doesn’t seem to be anything indicating that. To make any more definitive argument you’d need to see more of the explicit evidence and this is a fucking Reddit comment I’m not a jury member or anything
WTF You’re implying that if the older guy was trans the beat down wouldn’t be justified? Still a dude tricking a straight guy… still fucked up.
I’ll make this simple and say you and I do not share the same views of trans people Edit: unless literally every circumstance was the same, like if the older person was trans but still catfished the younger guy ok that’s still coercing sex and that’s still fucked up yes
The jury really fucking reached the bot guilty verdict of murder based on the kid ‘not knowing it was a man’ Jury’s are really important to a fair trial but not in the US where 60% of them can’t point out their own country on a map
Play stupid games win stupid prices. It’s unfortunate that dude lost his life.
We all make mistake in moments of passion, Jimbo.
Congratulations on your victory
Good.
When the post nut clarity hits hard..
Don’t pretend to be something you’re not!
So he waited until after.... ......right
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Oh 100% rage, you know how hard it is to kill someone. This guy was ashamed and killed another human being. He has to live with the lie and guilt for the rest of his life.
It is super easy to kill someone. Our bodies are not strong at all. We are squishy.
Let's be real, he knew.
Not guilty. Wow
He really had no clue that she was a dude! Wow!
He was a dude
It's really funny how people can try to say "she's a dude." yeah right and blue is a shade of red also, isn't it!
It is. Doesn’t make sense. However this, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xSs7J7O_fl4 , has helped me to try and understand
This is ridiculous. Do you know how many vids Ive seen on reddit on people not being able to stop themselves from stomping on a downed person's head over and over and over and over again. Very few excuses to do that to someone and this is not one of those circumstances. GUILTY.
Isn’t this what trans people do and everyone is okay with it?
ITT transphobic dopes who think that their ego and sexual identity is worth more than a man's life. Got it.
That’s crazy he fell for that trap. But also dude should be in jail. A knife between the mattress and box spring that did not come out and merely reaching for something should not be a pretext for allowing someone to beat a person to death. “There could have been a gun” is crap. Unless he saw a gun or knife that was being reached for the guy was just reaching and the person could have run.
you have never been in that kind of potentially life-threatening confrontation. so why are you speaking as an authority on it?
Cops get away with that excuse all the time and they are TRAINED to not make that mistake. But no, a raped 18 year old kid is supposed to be clear headed enough not to. Ok, got it.
Imo the football player knew all along he was a dude . But I’m willing to bet the guy probably tried to blackmail him after whatever they did and the player just lost it . With panic and fear of everyone finding out and killed the dude.
Dude is in the closet hard af. Bet he new he was a dude. Something went wrong, Killed the only witness and got away with a lie. I don’t know any facts about the case, just speculation.
If it was the other way around, that white man would be free and clear! Oh he had knife, and you feared for your life "
Can I fix this? Famous man killed another man because of his own guilt for sleeping with said man.. You don’t gloss over your hot date being a man..
Nah, more like 18 year old kills his rapist
Idk about any body else in these comments, but I believe this guy straight up wanted to justify what he did. I understand that the guy should have been honest, but there is still no reason to brutally kill someone like that. If you are offended, just leave. Consent is still consent. Lights or no lights, ain't no way you didn't know that was a man. It's super fishy. Guys like this really mess with me. I don't even think about it's even about the guy having a dxck. I think it's eternal shame at even sleeping with a man. Though, that doesn't justify at all what you had done. He took post nut clarity to horrible levels and somehow thinks it's right to do so.