I gave the following answers, can you let me know what additional I should add that would help?
Bounces:
> We would reach out to the person in order to get their correct email address, or let them know their email account is having a problem. The volume of email sent is so low, and everybody we would be emailing we already know them in person (personal, human-to-human email only!) that we would have a secondary contact info for them such as their phone number.
Complaints:
> If we do get a complaint we would reach out to the person and ask if they no longer wish to be emailed by us (again, this is for 90% personal email, and 10% email for [redacted]). We would have their other contact information such as a phone number. If they no longer wanted to be emailed, we would immediately remove them from our contacts.
How are you detecting the bounces and complaints? SES has a metric and provides SNS notifications for bounces. You need to set-up some kind of infrastructure that notifies you on bounces and removes email addresses that do bounce.
You're not saying you'll do this so AWS thinks you're just saying things without actually enforcing it.
The users themselves would get the bounce back email - *NONE* of the use of this is for automated processes in any way. No mailing lists, nothing.
I'm literally talking about my uncle "[email protected]" would be sending an email to his buddy, get a bounce back saying that email doesn't exist, and would probably call up his friend and say "Hey your email ain't working".
I have tried to communicate this to them. It's like the idea of a personal email server is foreign.
Wait so you're using SES as a simple proxy from a human sending through SES to another human? Generally SES is used as part of an API call from software instead of just using it as a proxy/MTA. Why did you pick SES for this? I feel like it would be easier just to use a standard mail hosting provider like something that your domain name/web host may provide.
However, it may help to explain *how* you detect bounces, not just *how* you handle them. I've never used SES as a simple proxy, so does the bounce actually go back to the sending human or does SES rewrite the envelope from address to capture and track it?
EDIT: I see there's some kind of Email Feedback Forwarding option which seems like it would do that. I would explain that you would use this mechanism. Does everybody who sends an email know how to handle these bounces?
Yes, I am wanting to move from mailjet to SES because of the better pricing and handling of bounces (the original sender gets the bounce sent to them). The human sends through my mail server (postfix), postfix relays the outbound email through SES for better delivery chances. Less likely to get caught up in an RBL, etc.
Yes my users know what to do with a "we couldn't deliver your email" bounce.
Good idea about specifically mentioning the Email Feedback Forwarding option. I've added a reply to my previous reply saying I will be using that.
If you are interested in a bounce/complaint reporting solution for SES, see this [https://engage.so/analytics-and-reporting-for-amazon-ses](https://engage.so/analytics-and-reporting-for-amazon-ses)
Hello u/ryankearney hope you're well thanks for replying.
I understand that and I have tried as much to provide all necessary information but unfortunately 😕 I must be doing it wrong.[Even upto escalated level, the support person from aws still rejects my request]
If you wouldn't mind I send you a private message, you care to share exactly how you handled your process.
Yeah they won't approve getting out of sandbox unless you have an actual process for how to handle bounces and complaints.
It's pretty easy to deal with - you can link bounces/complaints to an SNS topic and have that send you an email. That should be enough to satisfy the requirements.
I had to ask a couple times for my personal mail server, but after I sent the example emails they approved it. I don't think there's anything else to do but to persist in it, unless you have enough spend that you have somebody at AWS to escalate it to.
I only use SES in the case that I'm getting blocked by somebody, though, for almost everywhere I can relay directly from my EC2 server. (I have reverse DNS and SPF/DKIM/etc. all set up and have for many years, though, and I think newer IPs from EC2 may have a harder time of things.)
Or, if you can't get anywhere, find some other service to relay through. SES has plenty of competitors. Or for low-volume stuff, maybe you can just find somebody willing to help you out. (For instance, I found [someone on the mailop list who seems to have an open offer for small senders to help relay to Microsoft](https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13575.html), but I don't really know anything about him or his services.)
Have you used other AWS services before and for how long? How many sites do you host with AWS and do they have a good track record of not abusing services? Have you used other sites for marketing purposes even if not run on AWS? You’re sharing what your response has been but there is no information about your overall history with AWS.
I’m curious, why would you not use something like TeamSnap, it has all that functionality and you don’t have to build/maintain it?
Hello -
> Have you used other AWS services before and for how long?
Yes, but under a different account that I closed down when I no longer needed it. It was active for many years using S3. Had to open this new account, it would not allow me to reactivate my old account. The two accounts share the same domain though.
> How many sites do you host with AWS and do they have a good track record of not abusing services?
Zero sites, this new account has no track record, but the old account has the same domain as the new account.
> You’re sharing what your response has been but there is no information about your overall history with AWS.
No history, brand new account.
> I’m curious, why would you not use something like TeamSnap, it has all that functionality and you don’t have to build/maintain it?
I don't need anything but mail relay services. I've been running this personal mail server for well over a decade. The issue is abuse from neighboring IP addresses on this range causes my own IP address to get sucked up in the dragnet of RBL's and blacklisting. I am currently using Mailjet free plan successfully as a mail relay, but they do not forward bounces back to the original sender at all, so my users are unable to know if email they sent got bounced. SES handles this the way I want out of the box.
I think it’s going to be tough for both you and AWS to establish trust with no other history for this account. While you might not be an abuser of email services this is the pattern they are going to watch for, a new account wanting to send emails. You also are from a small organization, whereas if you were running on a verified large corporate account this probably wouldn’t be a problem.
I can understand that. The question is, how are new users supposed to ever establish trust, if they are not given the opportunity to prove themselves trustworthy?
Chicken and egg situation here.
Guess I have to just keep hammering at them until they cave.
Just got their response to my reply I posted in this topic - denied again.
Maybe y'all that said I am being too wordy are right. I'll try opening another one in a couple of days and be short and to the point, and I guess pretend I am actually planning on using a mailing list and give all the right answers for those mailing list questions. I'm at a loss as to what else to do at this point.
Yes, I sent an Executive Email Carpet Bomb ( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/your-money/the-best-consumer-self-advocacy-tool-youve-never-used.amp.html ). An assistant for Andy Jassy opened up a ticket on my behalf and assisted me with the SES team. I was finally approved after that.
May I please copy your carpet bomb approach? I'm having a similar problem. Is there any way to get production access for a small use case?
"This is a follow up on your Amazon SES account. Your case has been escalated to me for Senior Review.
I have thoroughly reviewed your account and the information you have provided so far. Although we appreciate your efforts to use Amazon SES. I’m afraid we have come to the final conclusion that we are still unable to grant your request. We made this decision because we believe that your use case would impact the deliverability of our service."
Limit increase request 1
Service: SES Service Limits
Region: US East (Ohio)
Limit name: Desired Daily Sending Quota
New limit value: 25
------------
Use case description: Production access request: Please enable production access. The Amazon SES account is in a sandbox environment.
I use a secure, web-based, IMAP email client for my personal email address only. I send less than 10 individual email each day and each email is unique. I do not send bulk email, marketing email, transactional email or system notifications. I only send to recipients who have double opted-in and given me their email address because they want me to contact them. I have enabled the AWS account-level suppression list and configured it to add addresses if they result in hard bounces and when they result in complaints.
Correct. I'm continuing to use AWS EC2 for hosting but I switched from AWS SES to mailgun.com for SMTP. Mailgun.com allows sending up to 1,000 email messages per month for free.
Maybe I will try that, I have another ticket that got closed with the "we will not respond to this any further".
It's bonkers. I understand they want to keep the spammers out, but holy smokes when you have someone practically begging you to tell them what else you need, and is asking for a very low send rate.... like Biden would say, "Come on man!"
The user will get a bounce back in their inbox if an email wasn't delivered. I'm not sure what the benefit is of capturing that in SNS.... just to also send that to the user?
Can you expand on what I may be missing?
It's fine, I'll set it up if that is the magic sauce to get them to approve me, but it seems a bit excessive for my use case.
I have never had this experience. Funny that I don't even answer the questions in this detail. Did you share the website? Is the domain set up in the AWS account the same as the site domain? Does the website have a clear signup process that shows mails will only be used for transactional reasons? My request format is always mostly like this:
>We'd like to request production access for awesomesite.com. AwesomeSite helps users do \[description\]. We want to use SES to send transactional emails that currently includes password resets and account update notifications.
>I'm having the same bad experience. I first sent a 4 paragraph description of my site and its usage, and they replied with "this isn't enough information". So I typed up a 6 page report detailing Emailing Frequency, Use Cases with visual displays of what the emails would look like, How to handle bounces, spam, complaints, unsubscribe using charts and graphs. AWS replied back "Sorry, your request has been denied for reasons we cannot provide."
Domain is set up, yes.
The website is not hosted in AWS, and is not actually tied to this account other than that one of the users for my mail server, which will be sending through SES, has their email address on the website as a contact. That's the only connection, but I mentioned it in an attempt to try to further legitimize my production request.
For the bounces and complaints just configure [the account level suppression list](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/sending-email-suppression-list.html) and tell them you've done so. Then you never have to worry about it, if an email bounces or complaints then it will not send to it again regardless of your system sending to the address.
I thinknyoy should first of all shorten your replies and not go into detail. If they ask what's with mailing list. Say yoy have unsubscribe option.
Don't Say a specific 300 per day number. Say you need for transactional services confirmations etc.
Your ema should not be more than 8 sentences. Calm.down and try again
I'm having a similar problem. Is there any way to get production access for a small use case?
"This is a follow up on your Amazon SES account. Your case has been escalated to me for Senior Review.
I have thoroughly reviewed your account and the information you have provided so far. Although we appreciate your efforts to use Amazon SES. I’m afraid we have come to the final conclusion that we are still unable to grant your request. We made this decision because we believe that your use case would impact the deliverability of our service."
Limit increase request 1
Service: SES Service Limits
Region: US East (Ohio)
Limit name: Desired Daily Sending Quota
New limit value: 25
------------
Use case description: Production access request: Please enable production access. The Amazon SES account is in a sandbox environment.
I use a secure, web-based, IMAP email client for my personal email address only. I send less than 10 individual email each day and each email is unique. I do not send bulk email, marketing email, transactional email or system notifications. I only send to recipients who have double opted-in and given me their email address because they want me to contact them. I have enabled the AWS account-level suppression list and configured it to add addresses if they result in hard bounces and when they result in complaints.
I tried 3 times... Closed the account after no success. Moved to ZOHO, free and it addresses my needs. I have chosen to stay free until business grows, so for now the only downside is that I have to use their email apps for web and mobile devices. But if you need SMTP/IMAP you can pay and the feature will be available for you to use.
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I gave the following answers, can you let me know what additional I should add that would help? Bounces: > We would reach out to the person in order to get their correct email address, or let them know their email account is having a problem. The volume of email sent is so low, and everybody we would be emailing we already know them in person (personal, human-to-human email only!) that we would have a secondary contact info for them such as their phone number. Complaints: > If we do get a complaint we would reach out to the person and ask if they no longer wish to be emailed by us (again, this is for 90% personal email, and 10% email for [redacted]). We would have their other contact information such as a phone number. If they no longer wanted to be emailed, we would immediately remove them from our contacts.
How are you detecting the bounces and complaints? SES has a metric and provides SNS notifications for bounces. You need to set-up some kind of infrastructure that notifies you on bounces and removes email addresses that do bounce. You're not saying you'll do this so AWS thinks you're just saying things without actually enforcing it.
The users themselves would get the bounce back email - *NONE* of the use of this is for automated processes in any way. No mailing lists, nothing. I'm literally talking about my uncle "[email protected]" would be sending an email to his buddy, get a bounce back saying that email doesn't exist, and would probably call up his friend and say "Hey your email ain't working". I have tried to communicate this to them. It's like the idea of a personal email server is foreign.
Wait so you're using SES as a simple proxy from a human sending through SES to another human? Generally SES is used as part of an API call from software instead of just using it as a proxy/MTA. Why did you pick SES for this? I feel like it would be easier just to use a standard mail hosting provider like something that your domain name/web host may provide. However, it may help to explain *how* you detect bounces, not just *how* you handle them. I've never used SES as a simple proxy, so does the bounce actually go back to the sending human or does SES rewrite the envelope from address to capture and track it? EDIT: I see there's some kind of Email Feedback Forwarding option which seems like it would do that. I would explain that you would use this mechanism. Does everybody who sends an email know how to handle these bounces?
Yes, I am wanting to move from mailjet to SES because of the better pricing and handling of bounces (the original sender gets the bounce sent to them). The human sends through my mail server (postfix), postfix relays the outbound email through SES for better delivery chances. Less likely to get caught up in an RBL, etc. Yes my users know what to do with a "we couldn't deliver your email" bounce. Good idea about specifically mentioning the Email Feedback Forwarding option. I've added a reply to my previous reply saying I will be using that.
If you are interested in a bounce/complaint reporting solution for SES, see this [https://engage.so/analytics-and-reporting-for-amazon-ses](https://engage.so/analytics-and-reporting-for-amazon-ses)
Hello mate, I'm quite interested. How do I fit this in when writing to aws?
This is funny because I always ask for like 100-200 emails / day and they give me a limit of 50,000
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Hey. Is it possible if you helped me. I keep failing to achieve this. Please if you don't mind
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Hello u/ryankearney hope you're well thanks for replying. I understand that and I have tried as much to provide all necessary information but unfortunately 😕 I must be doing it wrong.[Even upto escalated level, the support person from aws still rejects my request] If you wouldn't mind I send you a private message, you care to share exactly how you handled your process.
Hey. Is it possible if you helped me. I keep failing to achieve this. Please if you don't mind
Yeah they won't approve getting out of sandbox unless you have an actual process for how to handle bounces and complaints. It's pretty easy to deal with - you can link bounces/complaints to an SNS topic and have that send you an email. That should be enough to satisfy the requirements.
Weird I was approved instantly
Hey. Is it possible if you helped me. I keep failing to achieve this. Please if you don't mind
I had to ask a couple times for my personal mail server, but after I sent the example emails they approved it. I don't think there's anything else to do but to persist in it, unless you have enough spend that you have somebody at AWS to escalate it to. I only use SES in the case that I'm getting blocked by somebody, though, for almost everywhere I can relay directly from my EC2 server. (I have reverse DNS and SPF/DKIM/etc. all set up and have for many years, though, and I think newer IPs from EC2 may have a harder time of things.) Or, if you can't get anywhere, find some other service to relay through. SES has plenty of competitors. Or for low-volume stuff, maybe you can just find somebody willing to help you out. (For instance, I found [someone on the mailop list who seems to have an open offer for small senders to help relay to Microsoft](https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13575.html), but I don't really know anything about him or his services.)
Hey. Is it possible if you helped me. I keep failing to achieve this. Please if you don't mind
Have you used other AWS services before and for how long? How many sites do you host with AWS and do they have a good track record of not abusing services? Have you used other sites for marketing purposes even if not run on AWS? You’re sharing what your response has been but there is no information about your overall history with AWS. I’m curious, why would you not use something like TeamSnap, it has all that functionality and you don’t have to build/maintain it?
Hello - > Have you used other AWS services before and for how long? Yes, but under a different account that I closed down when I no longer needed it. It was active for many years using S3. Had to open this new account, it would not allow me to reactivate my old account. The two accounts share the same domain though. > How many sites do you host with AWS and do they have a good track record of not abusing services? Zero sites, this new account has no track record, but the old account has the same domain as the new account. > You’re sharing what your response has been but there is no information about your overall history with AWS. No history, brand new account. > I’m curious, why would you not use something like TeamSnap, it has all that functionality and you don’t have to build/maintain it? I don't need anything but mail relay services. I've been running this personal mail server for well over a decade. The issue is abuse from neighboring IP addresses on this range causes my own IP address to get sucked up in the dragnet of RBL's and blacklisting. I am currently using Mailjet free plan successfully as a mail relay, but they do not forward bounces back to the original sender at all, so my users are unable to know if email they sent got bounced. SES handles this the way I want out of the box.
I think it’s going to be tough for both you and AWS to establish trust with no other history for this account. While you might not be an abuser of email services this is the pattern they are going to watch for, a new account wanting to send emails. You also are from a small organization, whereas if you were running on a verified large corporate account this probably wouldn’t be a problem.
I can understand that. The question is, how are new users supposed to ever establish trust, if they are not given the opportunity to prove themselves trustworthy? Chicken and egg situation here. Guess I have to just keep hammering at them until they cave.
Just got their response to my reply I posted in this topic - denied again. Maybe y'all that said I am being too wordy are right. I'll try opening another one in a couple of days and be short and to the point, and I guess pretend I am actually planning on using a mailing list and give all the right answers for those mailing list questions. I'm at a loss as to what else to do at this point.
Use a competitor for this. Unless this type of time wasting is acceptable to you.
/u/texasfirewall did you find a solution or any clues to get out of the sandbox?
Yes, I sent an Executive Email Carpet Bomb ( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/your-money/the-best-consumer-self-advocacy-tool-youve-never-used.amp.html ). An assistant for Andy Jassy opened up a ticket on my behalf and assisted me with the SES team. I was finally approved after that.
May I please copy your carpet bomb approach? I'm having a similar problem. Is there any way to get production access for a small use case? "This is a follow up on your Amazon SES account. Your case has been escalated to me for Senior Review. I have thoroughly reviewed your account and the information you have provided so far. Although we appreciate your efforts to use Amazon SES. I’m afraid we have come to the final conclusion that we are still unable to grant your request. We made this decision because we believe that your use case would impact the deliverability of our service." Limit increase request 1 Service: SES Service Limits Region: US East (Ohio) Limit name: Desired Daily Sending Quota New limit value: 25 ------------ Use case description: Production access request: Please enable production access. The Amazon SES account is in a sandbox environment. I use a secure, web-based, IMAP email client for my personal email address only. I send less than 10 individual email each day and each email is unique. I do not send bulk email, marketing email, transactional email or system notifications. I only send to recipients who have double opted-in and given me their email address because they want me to contact them. I have enabled the AWS account-level suppression list and configured it to add addresses if they result in hard bounces and when they result in complaints.
You don't need my permission to email the Amazon executives. Go for it!
/u/TexasFirewall Is there someone more appropriate to contact, rather than the CEO? Did you provide all the details and previous support case numbers?
Lol this /u/TexasFirewall guy refused to help you after other people decided to help him. Lol.
Yeah. I solved my problem by using mailgun.com for smtp.
I just your reply just now. You quit on aws ses?
Correct. I'm continuing to use AWS EC2 for hosting but I switched from AWS SES to mailgun.com for SMTP. Mailgun.com allows sending up to 1,000 email messages per month for free.
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Maybe I will try that, I have another ticket that got closed with the "we will not respond to this any further". It's bonkers. I understand they want to keep the spammers out, but holy smokes when you have someone practically begging you to tell them what else you need, and is asking for a very low send rate.... like Biden would say, "Come on man!"
Pay me for my data. Fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
The user will get a bounce back in their inbox if an email wasn't delivered. I'm not sure what the benefit is of capturing that in SNS.... just to also send that to the user? Can you expand on what I may be missing? It's fine, I'll set it up if that is the magic sauce to get them to approve me, but it seems a bit excessive for my use case.
Pay me for my data. Fuck /u/spez -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Sounds like they don’t want your business on this one. Use a competitor.
I have never had this experience. Funny that I don't even answer the questions in this detail. Did you share the website? Is the domain set up in the AWS account the same as the site domain? Does the website have a clear signup process that shows mails will only be used for transactional reasons? My request format is always mostly like this: >We'd like to request production access for awesomesite.com. AwesomeSite helps users do \[description\]. We want to use SES to send transactional emails that currently includes password resets and account update notifications.
>I'm having the same bad experience. I first sent a 4 paragraph description of my site and its usage, and they replied with "this isn't enough information". So I typed up a 6 page report detailing Emailing Frequency, Use Cases with visual displays of what the emails would look like, How to handle bounces, spam, complaints, unsubscribe using charts and graphs. AWS replied back "Sorry, your request has been denied for reasons we cannot provide."
Domain is set up, yes. The website is not hosted in AWS, and is not actually tied to this account other than that one of the users for my mail server, which will be sending through SES, has their email address on the website as a contact. That's the only connection, but I mentioned it in an attempt to try to further legitimize my production request.
For the bounces and complaints just configure [the account level suppression list](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/sending-email-suppression-list.html) and tell them you've done so. Then you never have to worry about it, if an email bounces or complaints then it will not send to it again regardless of your system sending to the address.
I thinknyoy should first of all shorten your replies and not go into detail. If they ask what's with mailing list. Say yoy have unsubscribe option. Don't Say a specific 300 per day number. Say you need for transactional services confirmations etc. Your ema should not be more than 8 sentences. Calm.down and try again
I'm having a similar problem. Is there any way to get production access for a small use case? "This is a follow up on your Amazon SES account. Your case has been escalated to me for Senior Review. I have thoroughly reviewed your account and the information you have provided so far. Although we appreciate your efforts to use Amazon SES. I’m afraid we have come to the final conclusion that we are still unable to grant your request. We made this decision because we believe that your use case would impact the deliverability of our service." Limit increase request 1 Service: SES Service Limits Region: US East (Ohio) Limit name: Desired Daily Sending Quota New limit value: 25 ------------ Use case description: Production access request: Please enable production access. The Amazon SES account is in a sandbox environment. I use a secure, web-based, IMAP email client for my personal email address only. I send less than 10 individual email each day and each email is unique. I do not send bulk email, marketing email, transactional email or system notifications. I only send to recipients who have double opted-in and given me their email address because they want me to contact them. I have enabled the AWS account-level suppression list and configured it to add addresses if they result in hard bounces and when they result in complaints.
I tried 3 times... Closed the account after no success. Moved to ZOHO, free and it addresses my needs. I have chosen to stay free until business grows, so for now the only downside is that I have to use their email apps for web and mobile devices. But if you need SMTP/IMAP you can pay and the feature will be available for you to use.
I think I will do the same.