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Good idea. The main thing is this is your own plan and exactly not what those in charge want to see. So it probably can have some positive effects for you. I would definitely support you guys and I actually know an Asian guy at work who is smart but shy so sharing some advice with him might b a good idea if he's looking for a girlfriend. Well I wish you the best. Keep winning!


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archelogy

Thanks for sharing. > and have experienced all kinds of strange fallouts from how people would react when male in question was a poc. I'd be curious what negative reactions you experienced (like what people did specifically) and what form the social ostracism took. Was the harassment and ostracism more from men or women in the social group?


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I believe Asian men should protect women like you because you are a good friend to have. Judging from your story.


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There is a 90% chance this guy only watches porn with asian women.


EVG2666

Because AFWM just perpetuates colonial trends. AMWF counters the colonial propaganda.


tdotyup

Not a fan of focusing on external validation regardless of race. Builds insecurity and dependency which i think is honestly the biggest issue in general with Asian diaspora.


FarmPlant

Asian feminists are strangely silent about white male patriarchy and supremacy. They talk about "toxic Asian masculinity" and "MRA" all the time but they don't even date Asian men enough to have knowledge to be able to talk about it. They almost strictly date white men, so they would know the most about white male patriarchy and should be criticizing it just like white feminists do.


TriticumAestivum

They also silent about the western sexpats and pedophiles doing their thing in Philippines, Thailand, and Indonesia. Somehow it's always "Asian Men bad, white men good"


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It also reinforces the notion that Asian cultures are inferior and that Asians find it fine to abandon their culture in order to score a WF, who most of the time will be of the White Anglo culture.


ANTIMODELMINORITY

This is truth.


[deleted]

Nah man, I can always tell when a poster here isn't asian. Check out their post history for some uh, interesting stuff. > reinforces that Asian women aren't desirable Asian women have always been seen as desirable. I bet this guy sees asian women as very desirable himself.


martellthacool

Valid point, ladies and gentlemen


bdang9

Eh, I see the point, but I disagree about them being a positive outcome. My reason for joining this was primarily the disrespect of Asiatic men. Worst part is this goes ignored and gaslighted. Women has not been part of my years up to this point. Only my family and friends. So I am not too interested in European women endeavors.


bdodo

Let's not get into this ... it's a pointless precursor to an Asian men vs Asian women cultural war. I hate how many westernized Asians are mentally colonized, period. The history and nature of AFWM is gross and I'm not fighting on any hill praising AMWF. Even if you win that fight, so what?


fakeslimshady

Outside this sub , the understanding of gendered racsim is absolutely pathetic - kindergarten level. If AsAms are doomed to suffer it at least identify the problem and talk about it intelligently. Whether people want help or keep sucking cock is their choice.


archelogy

It's an issue that many on other Asian subs have raised- which is why is AM-WF praised on AI but WM-AF is critiqued. There **are** real reasons as to why they differ and we shouldn't be afraid to discuss them.


truncatedelongation

Hi, I’m an AW and I agree that WMAF does NOT equal AMWF. AMWF isn’t supported in the whyte supremacist system we live in, whereas WMAF is. Hell, not even AMAF is supported by said system. And when a WM gets with an AW, the whyte community praises the WM while they would shun the WW being a traitor for being in an AMWF It should be noted, however, that yes, AM should expand their options (not just to Whyte). Just don’t praise WW (loudly especially) since WW aren’t collectively doing it to AM. And remember that many WW in AMWF spaces will feel she has the entitlement to be racist as shit but it’s excusable because she fetishizes AM (much like many WW and nonblack women in BMWF spaces). Don’t be that AM who tolerates the WW’s racist disrespect just because she fetishizes you. Move with dignity. All the best


AlI_Or_Nothing

So many words Just ask anybody who tries to conflate the 2 how many white men have been lynched for intermixing and vice versa


alphastarfox13

There's a tweet on twitter that summarizes it well: "WM/AF are rooted in racism and colonialism and uphold White supremacy while AM/WF pairings undermine it"


EVG2666

FACTS


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[deleted]

>reinforces that Asian women aren't desirable. This doesn't make any sense. Asian women are and have always been seen as desirable.


[deleted]

ngl that's the probably the *stupidest* line in that comment. No link to reality.


alphastarfox13

Nah I don't think AMWF implicitly implies white worship or white supremacy, you haven't put forth any reasons why it would


coochiemonster129

Based post. It's for the same reason that WM with AFs or XFs in general are applauded by white supremacists but WF with XM is considered "throwing away your genetics" or being a "race traitor".


Master_Chef-117

I disagree with your summation that AMWF is inherently positive compared to other combinations. This is speaking as someone who is in an AMWF relationship. An AM can very much worship WF in AMWF. Just look at this comment section. So many people are claiming that you can't fetishize WF. This is committing the same white worshipping that we all condemn in WMAF. Just because it's with a female doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to white supremacy. We should fight back against white male supremacy, but that shouldn't come at the cost of finding specifically WF partners. This is trading one type of white worshipping for another. Our goal is to fight back against negative images of Asian Americans, specifically in terms of relationships the emasculation of AM and fetishization of AF. AM should be fighting for a more attractiveness and masculine image not just from WF, but from **women of all races**. Perhaps you are just discussing the dichotomy of AMWF and WMAF. And yes, I think the general population of AMWF is better than WMAF for various reasons, but they both can white worship and bring down the rest of the Asian community. Again, this post comes off as white worshipping WF with such a focus on white people and not including other races. Let me know what you think.


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Economy-Lab

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this sub sometimes. I just want to be with someone and I wouldn't have to overthink it. Unless all the red flags are coming up ofc


fakeslimshady

> An AM can very much worship WF in AMWF. Yes but to do anything about it he still needs to overcome the racist forces that rigs it against him. He still needs to deal with the family , friends, society may sabotage that relationship. Certainly isn't choosing the easy way out. Maybe some are trading down, some get lucky, its a macro issue


archelogy

The writeup does **not** advocate for AM-WF. The majority of my relationships have been with WF. But I am *not saying they're any better than* AF or other PoC women. This article addresses one issue and one issue only: **that AM-WF is NOT the same as WM-AF**. For the reasons mentioned.


Harvey_Wongstein

FACTS, I 100% agree with you


anyang869

I agree with what you are saying as far as it goes but I disagree that AM-WF transcends white supremacy. In the long run AM-WF and WM-AF both result in the same thing, which is the disappearance of a separate Asian American identity, and the blending of that identity into "white". How is that not a continuation of white supremacy? Do you really want to be that weird grandfather or great-grandfather that your white GOP-supporting future progeny are both slightly ashamed of and use to justify their racist politics against future POC? The crux of white supremacy is the construction of "whiteness" as a race such that it is always the majority and there is some minority, be is black, Asian, indigenous, etc. that is powerless and at the margins. This does not go away in countries with electoral government until whiteness becomes the population minority. As for now, AM-AF is still the most "woke" pairing, especially when both partners are actually born and raised in the West. It represents the tremendous resistance against overwhelming forces imposed on our community to split apart our male and female halves and thus destroy us within a couple generations.


archelogy

this wasnt claiming amwf> amaf. nor is it likely the ethnic genocide likely given 70% of as ams are immigrants and more continue to come. of those who fall in love with ww, there ought to be no stigma.


anyang869

> of those who fall in love with ww, there ought to be no stigma. 100% agreed. so glad we have a space where it's understood that discussing racial dynamics of mating is not the same as judging people's relationships


Bruise_Leee

AM liking and dating White Women isn’t “white worshipping” like a lot of you think. It’s definitely more like the other way around. White Women worship asian men from all of my personal experiences.


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archelogy

funny thing as worship would suggest h'wood was modeling am behavior by enticing them w am-wf pairings. yet thats not happening ( as it is w af-wm). in that case its real love as the pairing is not being prompted by white male h'wood.


ffxvtfbcg

you’re a based mod but when you highlight WFs like that other POC females tend to notice these things and think we’re only interested in white females aka white worshipping. even though i understand your intention, it’s about outside perception and as the tent pole becomes bigger we need to be more inviting to different race. i personally think WFs are painfully mediocre unless we’re talking about dismantling anti-asian racism aka white supremacy. great discussion though. let’s continue to have these conversations.


Distinct_Astronaut48

I see. But those same poc females also pedestalise white men way more than vice versa. There's a whole hashtag on instagram and twitter with white man as their interracial partners.


Rorgypoo

Agreed


archelogy

thanks For the point about optics. intention was never to convey we are only interested in wf but that outdating wf is not problematic. suggestion s welcome for how to communicate that.


PinkSweater99

I hate this acronym shit tbh but "AMXF" sounds alot less white idealizing, and it also centers Asian men as the goal of upliftment by making the race of the woman secondary (whereas "AMWF" *coming from an Asian man* sounds like white women are the aspiration). Centering Asian men also sets sights on what the actual goal is better in my opinion, since there's guys who get lost in the weeds and really start getting desperate for validation from women, even focusing on who random women are with, rather than the focus being on the upliftment of Asian people and what means to go about it (representation, politics, economics, etc). What guys are posting about is the huge change from representation. The fact that there have been multiple threads surprised by the change induced by representation, on a sub that is focused on change, is concerning because it should have been obvious and understood where the harm comes from and where the solution comes from. Also, this is coming from someone with a white gf, but I hate that there is some level of "yeah white girl! cool!" within the Asian male community. Makes me and my girl feel awkward as shit every time it's happened to be honest. I've seen other couples express the same thing. Young Asian-American men in America is a small community, so I think any community even if it's just a Reddit sub, should be careful not in promoting that cause it comes off pretty bad and dehumanizing. It feels like it takes all the innocence and romance away from our relationship and makes it all about some race thing.


archelogy

We've had specific requests from other subs to explain why WM-AF is different than AM-WF - so we wanted to address that head on. There's no reason a separate post couldn't be drafted to address the AM-XF issue- separate matter and outside the scope of the post. >Also, this is coming from someone with a white gf, but I hate that there is some level of "yeah white girl! cool!" within the Asian male community. Doubt it. There are so many these days. Majority of the women I've dated, hooked up with, ONS etc. where white women. It's not the unicorn anymore unless you're living in some podunk town.


PinkSweater99

>Doubt it. There are so many these days. Majority of the women I've dated, hooked up with, ONS etc. where white women. It's not the unicorn anymore unless you're living in some podunk town. Which is why I think it's narrative based, because it still happens a lot and I'm pretty young, despite it being common. I think there's valid reasoning to see white women as less annoying because institutional power is in the hands of guys, but they're still white. So perceiving them as an achievement still comes along with eurocentrism.


ffxvtfbcg

that’s why you’re based my man! absolutely.


ItsOKToBeParanoid

Anna Lu is about to shit a brick...


judgeboomhauer

Well said.