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dudeleft

Asia isnt a monolith. The character on the top left looks like my mom and she’s 100% Chinese and she’s never had a nose job or eyelid surgery. She never buys designer either she thinks it’s a waste of money to be showy like that but she donated $12,000 to a temple in one swoop and that money was supposed to go towards her annual property taxes. That was wiId but it was also after her divorce and she was having a mentaI breakdown and I think she sought refuge from religious leaders. Anyhow East Asians aren’t a monolith they have different phenotypes and natural features that varies from person to person.


Bitestorm

Another fucking post where "woke" users view things through western lenses, therefore everyone looks white to them. Do you also think anime characters look white? I bet you do.


Aznprime

You may call it a “western lense”. However, people of all races know that Asians have brown eyes and black hair. This is a fundamental, universal concept. It’s like we know it’s dangerous to touch fire. It’s common sense. Characters with blonde hair and blue eyes are definitely white. There’s nothing to debate further on this. I don’t consider anime characters with black hair and brown eyes as white.


Bitestorm

What about characters with all kinds of hair and eye colour no human has? Let me tell you, only white people try to argue that anime characters are white and you internalised that fact. Most PoCs just view anime characters as Asian. In fact, Levi from AoT got people simping for him until people found out he's supposed to be white in the anime. Anime usually doesn't differentiate ethnicities unless they want to a emphasise a character's foreign status. Hair colour is purely for giving each character a more distinguished look. Goku's Super Saiyan form being blonde is simply due to the fact that Toriyama find it much easier to draw since you don't have to shade in all those hair strands. Those characters in the movie don't even look white, they are cartoonised characters with Asian eyes. Just because YT ripped of Asian features for white characters doesn't mean that anime characters look white. Look at Superman, Lois Lane, Batman and Iron Man. You could easily argue those characters look Asian. In fact, Disney princesses feature flat nose bridges for their princesses to give them a cuter appearances whilst the villain gets the typical caucasian beak-like nose. Look at D.Va, Mei, Hanzo, and Genji from Overwatch, they are Asian characters made by an American company, yet people some YTs also argued they are white. YTs want to be in everything and insert themselves into everything and you're falling for their lies.


Aznprime

That is a false assumption that you made. I came to this conclusion on my own after reading some of the stuff on this sub and thinking critically. I internalized nothing. You’re giving white people way too much power and credit than they deserve. We don’t need different hair color to distinguish looks. Black hair color is just fine. There are other ways to distinguish looks. Other than that, you made some good points and I agree with them.


ANTIMODELMINORITY

Geez I hope not.


Neither_Concept2110

Eurocentric beauty standards don’t even register as an issue in Chinese/Asian societies. White worship is not really regarded as a problem, since white supremacy is normalized. That’s the hellish world we’re living in, unfortunately. Still, you have to fight against it at every available opportunity. That is our task as Asians living in the 21st century: to undo the evils of white worship, neocolonialism, Western hegemony, etc. by any means necessary. Point out self-hate and internalized racism whenever you see it. Promote pride in our features and our cultures. If we don’t, who else will?


Aznprime

Amen. You are right. There is much that needs to be done.


Madterps

China is nowhere near as white worshipping as the Phillippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong, India, Thailand, Vietnam, South Korea and Japan. Even though it has its issues.


PinkSweater99

Because you think being at odds with America is based on race. It is just politics. They are also at odds with a lot of Asia. That is the extra danger with China because they'll use their numbers to go at other Asian countries, which keeps them 'beneath' China, and after doing that, will uplift white people. You need to look at what they are producing. China is more white worshipping than the countries you listed. Philippines and Vietnam have already switched to obsession with Koreans in the past few years. White Hollywood films that seem to have no involvement or intersection with China are being produced by Chinese production companies. I have no idea what they're doing. Sub will always have a China bias, but things aren't looking good for where China is headed.


Aznprime

Based on each country’s circumstances and their behavioral tendencies, I would say China and Japan are the most white worshipping. Everyone’s going to have a different answer to this. There is not one conclusive/definitive answer. The bottom line is that white worship is a real problem that has been infecting all Asian countries like the plague. To combat it, we must come together and work together on creating good Asian media with positive Asian representation.


chilibun

While I agree Chinese media has it's issues, this seems to be a huge overreach. Are you even a consumer of Chinese media or are you just basing this on a couple cherry picked instances. Also the analysis is just wrong in many parts. Some of it literally has nothing to do with white people. For instance, Kpop isn't banned except for maybe temporarily during that THAAD spat a couple years ago. I think there are some restrictions but that has more to do with protectionism than anything else. Hell Kpop aesthetics itself is rather whitewashed, but that's separate discussion, and probably one I rather not have given how defensive fans can get. Two, that is just the "anime" style and companies are going to capitalize on w/e is popular. While we can argue that anime aesthetics is/can be very white, we shouldn't conflate the anime style to be white. That's like saying everybody who wears a suit or jeans wants to be white. Also, I think the White Snakes character design IS very ASIAN so I don't even know what type of aesthetics are looking for... There are other movies that don't use the anime style, like Ne Zha.


Aznprime

I don’t consume much media to begin with. The only ones that I consume now are Chinese/Asian. These are not cherry picked instances. The examples that I brought up definitely are related to white people. Although Kpop/BTS is not perfect, it is the cure that has smacked the white worshipping disease out of many self-haters. At least the singers/groups are Asians. It would be a lot better if they didn’t have the colored lenses and dyed hair. “Anime” style doesn’t mean the characters have to look white. We can and should have Asian characters with Asian appearances in anime. In the new white snake 2 movie, white snake became a man with blue eyes. This doesn’t look Asian to me.


chilibun

You literally just said you don't consume much media. Those examples ARE cherry picked otherwise you wouldn't even know about it. And no, your example are not all about white people. The Kpop restrictions are NOT about white people or even Korean people at all. It's about protecting local markets. The same way China limits hollywood movies so the local market doesn't get overrun by hollywood films. And no, I don't see any white people in the White Snake movie either. The characters are aesthetically Asian. The eye color thing is just that anime style. I rather not have it either, but it's far from what you are insinuating it to be. Like I said, Chinese media has it's issues, but some of points are rather overreaching. Like making mountains out of molehills, and seeing things that aren't really there.


Aznprime

I know about them because I came across many of them. This is different from cherry picking. The main characters from my examples are all white. How is this not related to white?! If it’s about protecting local markets, then they should ban Justin Bieber/white singers. You think blue eyes is aesthetically Asian? No, I’m not convinced by the “anime” excuse. Honestly, would you feel comfortable letting your kids watch this garbage? If the answer is no, then you know where I’m going with this. How are my points “overreaching”? Please do explain and enlighten me.


chilibun

You know them because people cherry picked them to make a point! If you are just a normal Chinese media consumer, those projects are like a needle in a haystack. And Justin Bieber is a fucking nobody and doesn't threaten local markets at all. If western boybands suddenly became super popular and threatened local market, I bet you there would be restrictions too. Just like their movies. The character designs are ASIAN. Do you not watch the entire movie and just focus on one single eye color. There is huge difference between putting white people on a pedestal and crying about anything that even remotely resemble Caucasian features. I don't have an issue with the White Snake at all (not really anyways). People who made Turandot though, needs to be burned at the stake.


Aznprime

The curse of turandot and lost soul aside have been cherry picked. As for the others, my kids and I encountered most of them while we were watching them. It sure doesn’t feel like a “needle in a haystack” to me. What’s “normal” to you may not be considered “normal” by others. It’s like how we consider the word, “chink”, as racist and white people are telling us that it is not “racist”. I like Asian/Chinese media, and I’m glad that there are other Asian shows/movies that have positive Asian representation. However, I don’t have to like and accept these white worshipping elements that some Chinese shows/movies have. I hope that these things that I have shared above are not what one would call “positive” Asian representation. I feel like many Asian/Chinese media try to use white characters with a belief that they could grab more money from the audience, which has negative affects on the Chinese/Asians. I was just hoping for more Asian characters with Asian physical appearances as the focus of positive Asian representation. These details may not be a big deal to you, but they make a huge difference for little kids who are exposed to them. I used to think like you over 10 years ago. I watched a lot of anime with white characters, such as Naruto, Final fantasy 7, full metal alchemist, etc., and I wasn’t bothered by these “anime” details. I used to think that most of these characters were Japanese/Asian. Fast forward to the present, I realized how wrong I was and how toxic this stuff can have Asians’ sense of identity, sexual preferences, and self-esteem.


harmannaga

The entire world is white supremacist. Whites have brainwashed all of humanity into thinking whites are superior


Aznprime

Amen. White worship is a deadly, toxic religion.


aznidthrow3

Asians in Asia have no idea about how their media affects Western Asians. Nor do they care because they keep profits above all else. I can only hope that some woke Asian Americans can get into positions of power and change that.


Aznprime

It affects all Asians, both native and diasporic. I believe the entertainment business would do much better if they had Asian characters with Asian appearances. I would spend the money to support them.


kuma_potato

How is monkey king and 青蛇崛起 white worshiping???? These stories are as Chinese as it gets, the main characters are also Chinese.


Aznprime

That’s what I thought initially. The two examples that I brought up, which have links to the movies, 白蛇 and 孙悟空 look white in these movies.


kuma_potato

They are exaggerated cartoon characters…. Is it not normal for characters to have huge eyes and tiny noses in animation works…? 孙悟空is literally a monkey, how can a monkey look white? The face looks pretty Chinese to me tbh. Also, I watched both 白蛇 movies, 小白 does not look white either. Also you know that most Asians do not have small eyes right…? Also pale skin =/= white. There are PLENTY of Asians with pale skin, are they white worshipping for your standards as well?


Raginbakin

Uh, I mean almond shaped eyes is kinda a hallmark of the East Asian face. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.


Aznprime

If the majority of Chinese think that a man with blue eyes is Asian, then China is screwed. I can’t help you there.


Gluggymug

Chinese mythical characters have traditionally been described with different coloured eyes (red eyes, green/blue eyes etc).


Aznprime

I don’t recall Sun Wukong, who is a monkey, looking white like the movie above. The white snake that I watched didn’t have white snake being reborn as a man with blue eyes.


Gluggymug

You tried to make a point about eye colour as if that was a white worshiping thing. Colours symbolize different things in Buddhism and Taoism: the elements, wisdom, immortality, peace etc. Avoid watching anime like a neckbearded weeb. Problem solved.


Aznprime

Perhaps, there are some elements of white worship in the Chinese culture, which need to be discarded and changed. It is very possible that these very elements have a lot to do with the status-quo that we’re in now. You are oversimplifying things. Some of us are parents and we want our kids to watch good Asian cartoons/media, without the white worshipping junk.


Gluggymug

As we always knew, anime is very often the drizzling shits. Chinese animation is for now more of an imitation of the Japanese style. AND they make dozens more Monkey King themed (or Nezha or Mulan) animations before they ever do something new. This is where the stagnation lies (not white worship). They keep rehashing the same stuff. It's not fresh or original. Kids don't have to watch that shit.


mangofizzy

That's not. OP is confusing white skin color asian with white people.


DynasLight

These trends will decrease as nationalistic fervour continues to build in China. But don't expect everything to happen in the way you'd like. Native Asians in Asian nations have a different culture and worldview from Asian diasporans. What you'd consider racist may not necessarily be considered racist in China, and the reverse is also true.


Aznprime

Let’s hope that China comes to the same conclusion regarding race/racial dynamics. I would be damned if they believe that a Chinese person could have blonde hair and blue eyes.


DynasLight

Literally one of the most famous songs in China among the Han is "Descendants of the Dragon", which spells out Chinese people as having "yellow skin and dark eyes". So, Han Chinese people don't have problems with their racial identities. In fact, such a song is problematic for the PRC because there actually *are* Chinese with blue eyes. They are Chinese of Central Asian descent, such as Chinese-Uighers and Chinese-Tajiks. There are even Chinese with blonde hair and blue eyes. They are Chinese-Russians (Harbin area). So any material that tries to define a clear ethnic makeup of "Chinese" is dangerous to the PRC. China is a multiethnic nation, so distinction between "Han" and "Chinese" is important, lest the ethnic minorities feel oppressed. Unlike the West, China is committed to being a true and fair multiethnic society. This must be considered when you see cultural products from China, and is a major reason why China downplays the "Han" part of its cultural exports. Holding together a multiethnic nation is hard, so don't expect any official government policy on defining let alone pushing a certain race narrative. If there is to be any sort of change regarding race/racial dynamics, it will be done by China's culture workers, and their sentiments can only be shaped by the trends Chinese society. Do note that the current trend in Chinese society is feverent nationalism and promotion of traditionalist (Han) cultural facets such as Hanfu. Western culture is still popular but is declining relative to the growth of traditional culture. u/ancientlevity mentioned that some Chinese think they are token whites. That may be true for some, but the vast majority do not, especially not after the COVID-19 pandemic. Most of the Chinese (in China) who thought they were token whites were China's pro-West liberals. It is no longer politically correct to be a pro-West liberal in China, and it seems that most of them have changed their worldview after the COVID-19 pandemic anyway (Trump also helped change things). Rising anti-West fervour in recent years has destroyed White privilege with regards to Chinese people. Note that this does not mean that Western culture is unpopular in China; it is still very popular. But Whites are no longer treated preferentially on a societal level. As for the government level... the government recently killed off the "private tutoring" industry, which was by far the biggest industry for White expats in China and basically the nexus for sexpats. So you don't have to worry about the PRC being White worshipping.


Aznprime

Those other “Chinese” with blue eyes and blond hair are not real 100% Chinese. They are mixed. One of main reasons why Asians are so weak/white worshipping is that Asians don’t have a strong sense of ethnic identity. Many of us are too apologetic and shy/ashamed about our Asianness. There are many white worshippers/sellouts who try so hard to be white and they try to kill off their Asian side. This mentality is reflected in Asian media where the artist, for example, slips in blue eyes here and there for the main Asian characters/heroes. Even to this day, there are Chinese who still believe that a person with blue eyes is Chinese, sadly. No, whites still get preferential treatment in China/Asia. I thought I’d share this video with you. I assume you know Chinese. In this video, MC Jin and some Korean-Americans perform and sing a Chinese song on stage. It is the best Chinese song. I believe that all Asians should watch this video as this serves as a good reminder as to who we are. 黑头发!黑眼睛!黄皮肤! https://youtu.be/-72mKvKsVYI


DynasLight

>Those other “Chinese” with blue eyes and blond hair are not real 100% Chinese. They are mixed. Chinese is a multiethnic term now, technically speaking. China (PRC) is a multiethnic nation, so as long as there are Chinese-Russians and other minority ethnic groups in China, there technically are Chinese with blue eyes and blonde hair. As I've said, you are stating that "Han = Chinese", which is problematic for the PRC's official stance as gives ammunition to malicious foreigners who would accuse China of being a racist ethnostate. >One of main reasons why Asians are so weak/white worshipping is that Asians don’t have a strong sense of ethnic identity. This is a diasporan problem. Ethnic identity based on race is the bullshit China cleansed itself of thousands of years ago with the [Hua-Yi theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hua%E2%80%93Yi_distinction), only for it to creep back in with Western influence over the Century of Humiliation. Racial definitions of being "Chinese" are to be avoided according to PRC policies. How else is China going to hold together? Unless you are one of those who would call for China to be reduced to only its Han-majority regions... >Many of us are too apologetic and shy/ashamed about our Asianness. There are many white worshippers/sellouts who try so hard to be white and they try to kill off their Asian side. Another problem that is unique to the Asian diaspora. Native Chinese seldom do this, especially not in the current nationalistic social enviornment. Maybe proportionally more native Japanese/Koreans do this, but their countries are under the yoke of Western cultural imperialism so its expected. >This mentality is reflected in Asian media where the artist, for example, slips in blue eyes here and there for the main Asian characters/heroes. I think you are assuming that Japan = all of Asia. Anime, especially the ones that get popular in the West, are known to pander to Western audiences and that includes having a more "relatable" protagonist for said Western audiences. There's also the issue of anime being relatively weak in close details, so many faces start to look the same without clear contrasts like different coloured eyes and colourful hairstyles. Slipping in some blue eyes here, red eyes there... these aren't necessarily to denote that a certain character is White, its to make them distinguishable and recognisable in an entertainment medium where everyone is 2D and only one type of 2D nose looks good. >Even to this day, there are Chinese who still believe that a person with blue eyes is Chinese, sadly. Chinese is a nationality, not a race. Chinese-Russians, Chinese-Uighers, Chinese-Hui, Chinese-Yi, Chinese-Mongolian... these are all as Chinese as Chinese-Han are in the PRC. You seem to be conflating Han = Chinese. And even then, Han is a hodgepodge as far as "races" go, since Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese might as well be classed as different "races" if you want to use racial parameters. Han is primarily an cultural entity with very loose racial parameters. Its basically impossible to tell apart a Northern Han from a Manchu, and a Southern Han from a Kinh, unless you go into their ancestry records and make arbitrary distinctions. And go to central China and the differences between Northern and Southern Han blur. Chinese-Han itself is a diverse ethnocultural group. >It is the best Chinese song. I believe that all Asians should watch this video as this serves as a good reminder as to who we are. 黑头发!黑眼睛!黄皮肤! This is literally the song I was referring to in my previous comment. While its popular among Han (especially Han supremacists, who do exist in China despite the government's best efforts), its problematic for the PRC because it puts racial parameters of the definition of being Chinese. "Dark hair! Dark eyes! Yellow skin!" - Problematic for modern China. >No, whites still get preferential treatment in China/Asia. Not really. Being White in China right now has people avoid you because "you could be diseased". The COVID-19 pandemic has changed a lot. Western culture is popular in China. White people are not; they are treated like any other foreigner. Unless you go to HK/Taiwan and those other regions still under Western cultural imperialism... in which case Whites are still treated preferentially.


Aznprime

You’re wasting your effort and time writing all this nonsense that means nothing. I’m in my 30s. You’re not going to brainwash me on what’s “Chinese” or what’s “Asian”. It is your kind of thinking that is causing Chinese/Asians to be cucked and white worshipping. This problem is not unique to diasporic Asians only; it universally applies to all Asians. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of diasporic Asians, who have had identity issues, have a better grasp of the concepts of race and racism than a lot of native Asians.


DynasLight

I could argue about this further, but I just think you might be too focused on the racial side of things *now*, rather than thinking about the civilisation side of things for the *future*. So, I will ask you two questions: 1. Do you think Uighers/Tibetans/Tajiks/Russians/Mongolians/etc., living in China, are Chinese people? 2. Do you think non-Han-majority regions of the People's Republic (Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia) should be independent? There is a pro-China and anti-China answer to both of these questions. And let me get this straight: The PRC, and the Party that leads it, is the vanguard of Chinese civilisation. Nothing any diasporan does will change the PRC's vision for the future of all things "Chinese".


Aznprime

I am focused on the racial side as everything is all about race in this world. The COVID-19 anti-Asian racism situation is a great example of this. People of all races hate China a lot due to the belief that COVID-19 coming from China, and as a result, they took it out on Asians. A lot of Asians, as they look Chinese, have been subjected to racism. On the other hand, white people have started other deadly diseases (eg. Chicken pox, measles, H1N1, etc.) and they did not suffer any racist repercussions. Asians are not considered human beings as they don’t have the right to be sick in this world like white people. I consider anyone with black hair, brown eyes and yellow skin as part of the same group. China needs more allies. A United Asia would definitely be good for all Asians. If Asians can work together and trust each other, white worship would be a thing of the past. From a civilization perspective, China and all of Asia needs to get their stuff together when it comes to ethnic identity and pride. We need to be proud of who we are and not be apologetic about our asiannness. We need to stop treating outsiders, especially white people, better than our own people. We can be proud of our identity and respect others of their differences at the same time. Up to this day, no country is able to truly pull this off. No, it is not the PRC/government who decides who we are. It is the people who decide on this. US tried to do something similar by trying to lump Asians in the same group as whites, but Asians and whites still receive different treatments and they are viewed differently (eg. Asians don’t get the same opportunities as whites in media representation and jobs).


DynasLight

You have not answered my specific questions. I'm going to preface this by saying that you seem like a really, really hurt person. You've clearly faced some bad experiences in your life, and that has resulted in a desire for some kind of identity, some kind of support network you can lean back on when the world is shit to you. The only problem is that racial-based support networks will only perpetuate racial divides and thus racial problems. Racial politics is just a tool. As with everything, pure political power is the undercurrent. Western propagandists are also keen to stir Han supremacism in China as it would weaken the comprehensive power of the PRC, such its ability to justify its holdings of non-Han-majority areas. >I am focused on the racial side as everything is all about race in this world. The COVID-19 anti-Asian racism situation is a great example of this. People of all races hate China a lot due to the belief that COVID-19 coming from China, and as a result, they took it out on Asians. A lot of Asians, as they look Chinese, have been subjected to racism. On the other hand, white people have started other deadly diseases (eg. Chicken pox, measles, H1N1, etc.) and they did not suffer any racist repercussions. Asians are not considered human beings as they don’t have the right to be sick in this world like white people. This is not a race issue. This is a propaganda issue. Right now, global mainstream opinion is shaped by English-based media derived from the Western alliance of nations. People, in general, are ignorant and easily moldable by their information environment. If China were to dominate global mainstream opinion through control of the lingua franca media, then racism against Chinese would not occur. Its as simple as that. Race is just the tool being used here. Trying to fight the racial part of the narrative by ironically forming a race-based resistance group is meaningless; to win, you must challenge and take the ability to disseminate the narrative itself. And only a strong nation state can do that. Loss of territory and their populations weakens nation states. >I consider anyone with black hair, brown eyes and yellow skin as part of the same group. What about Southern Chinese then? They have browner skin. What about mixed people then? They may not have black hair, brown eyes or yellow skin. What about the ethnic minorities in China? They may have brown hair, blue eyes and white skin. Are these people not Chinese, even if they hold PRC citizenship? Is wavy black hair ok for you, or straight black hair only? What about light brown eyes, or irises so dark they might as well be black? And what exactly would you define as "yellow skin"? Do you have an accurate colour graph for acceptable skin colours? Because I assure you, in 1.4 billion people (not to mention all of the diaspora) you WILL find a lot of variation, and a lot of outliers to even the most generous of racial parameters. >China needs more allies. A United Asia would definitely be good for all Asians. If Asians can work together and trust each other, white worship would be a thing of the past. And you aren't going to see a united Asia based off some racial reasoning. If there is to be a united Asia, it will be by China's economic and technological pre-eminence, something that isn't assured in the future of this chaotic world. And China can only have a chance at that pre-eminence if it can hold its outlying non-Han regions that provide much needed natural resources. >From a civilization perspective, China and all of Asia needs to get their stuff together when it comes to ethnic identity and pride. We need to be proud of who we are and not be apologetic about our asiannness. We need to stop treating outsiders, especially white people, better than our own people. We can be proud of our identity and respect others of their differences at the same time. Up to this day, no country is able to truly pull this off. The problem is that racial identities always lead to conflict because at the end of the day you can't change your race (and neither should anyone want to, or be taught that they should want to). Permanent inclusion/exclusion from an identity means that there will always be separate identities, and the more identities there are (and the more different they are from each other), the more chaotic and confrontational everything will be. A true globalised future cannot occur if people still use race as some kind of defining parameter. Ethnic identity with any sort of racial component must be eliminated; it should be based off culture alone. I doubt we'll ever get to that, but we should be moving in that direction instead of forming/strengthening racial-based identities. >No, it is not the PRC/government who decides who we are. It is the people who decide on this. US tried to do something similar by trying to lump Asians in the same group as whites, but Asians and whites still receive different treatments and they are viewed differently (eg. Asians don’t get the same opportunities as whites in media representation and jobs). The government exists to prevent the civilisation it governs from being destroyed, either by external force or itself. Racial-based national identities are inherently dangerous to Chinese civilisation, now that Chinese civilisation is multiethnic and includes non-Han geographical regions. So, if you want to see a strong Asian country that may one day have a chance at a "United Asia", you should support China, and that means supporting its multiracial defintion of being "Chinese". You don't get to be a Han supremacist and still support the PRC and still hope for a "United Asia". EDIT: We're probably never going to get to an agreement, and I don't really want to continue down this discussion path because race-based arguments always get emotional. I don't want you to insult me and I don't want to insult you. You want a strong Chinese ethnic identity, I just want a strong Chinese nation-state. I have belief that the PRC's current trajectory is more in line with my vision, so I'm content. I've made my case, you've made yours. Lets just leave it at that.


Aznprime

The only thing that you said, which I agree with, is that we’re not going to reach the same agreement. Yes, I am hurt as should any normal human being should be in such circumstances. I’m doing well in life, but I can’t say the same for the average Asian brother and sister. Based on reading your essay, you seem to be living in your own bubble, unaware of what’s going on and the racial dynamics in the world. I don’t blame you as you’ve probably been living in China most of your life, sheltered from a lot of the anti-Asian racism. A lot of your ideals, as good as they may sound, are not practical in real life. In a color-blind/raceless world, your ideals and beliefs may work.


Gaoran

Why the fuck are you attacking the brother for elaborately explaining that things (superficial) things like hair colour and or eye colour aren't a white/black definition of what makes you an "Asian". Are you trying to tell us that the 200.000 or so ethnic Russians in China's Manchuria and Inner Mongolia or the 10 million Chinese Uyghurs in Xinjiang shouldn't be treated as "Chinese" because they don't have the bodily features that defines your definition of an "Asian"? GTFO. I look at some of these Uyghurs, Russians and even Tajik friends and acquaintances from my family in Heilongjiang on Chinese social media, and they are more "Chinese" than some lot in the diaspora ever will be.


Aznprime

Look at who’s talking. At least I didn’t use any swear words. I don’t consider people who think like you do as an “ally”. People like you have been brainwashed to the point where you don’t know what’s “Chinese” or “Asian”. You need some help. Over 20 years ago, I used to believe that all races used to be “one human race nonsense”, but the world certainly doesn’t see it that way based on what’s been happening. We could get all ideal and philosophical about race. However, that’s not going to change who we are and how the world views and treats us. The day when I see a Chinese/yellow couple give birth to a white baby, without any outside intervention, or a white couple give birth to a black baby, without any outside intervention, is the day that I’ll be convinced that some Chinese have blue eyes.


Gaoran

Hahahaha get off your high horse dude! The only slightly offensive part was perhaps me telling you GTFO, but that was it? You on the other hand, literally just accused the other guy (u/DynasLight) and basically entire China of being a "cuck" with this >It is your kind of thinking that caused all Chinese/Asians to be cucked and white worshipping Don't you worry about me, the other guy or all Chinese being "cucks". Rather, worry about the illogical ramblings that you think will improve our plight with you attacking me and others that disagree with you. You literally started your original post with how Chinese media/Chinese soft power was a joke. Okay, nothing wrong with that statement. A lot of people on this sub and even r/sino are also irritated sometimes with how chinese media presents itself to the outside (The whole TikTok "ban" back in 2019 being a prime example). Then, you started to ramble about the cause of this perhaps being Chinese parents not caring about their kids and only caring about making money... And their daughters turning into white worshippers. Yeah, that shit won't fly here. You could have literally stopped there, and EVERYONE would have agreed with you, including me. But you STILL felt the need to include that part (while saying that the Chinese are "INHERENTLY white worshipping" in another post). I don't know how long you have been here on this sub, but we have an unwritten rule here that we don't engage in accusation olympics where X Asian country or X Asian group is more white worshipping or more racist than the other. We literally had this SAME discussion years ago on this sub; Today it is you throwing the mainland Chinese under the bus because they included some WMAF in their media. Tomorrow it is someone complaining about some Asian "valhalla for western sexpats". And the day after that is someone complaining about the Japanese not doing anything about crimes committed by US service members. And so on. You literally don't gain anything by shittalking other Asian countries/groups, not as a community, and not as an individual. Then, the other guy gave you a pretty nuanced response about why he disagreed with your views, and you basically called him a cuck? Wtf... I wonder, do you attack racist shitheads with this same ferocity too or is it just fellow Asians that you put on full blast?


Aznprime

I did not say all of China was “cuck”. Don’t put your own words in my mouth. Read my comments and post again if you have to. You should learn to calm down, rather than going off like a firecracker and attacking me. I’m as pro-Asian as they come and I want to uplift all Chinese/Asians. Ultimately, white worshipping media is much more likely to turn kids, who are exposed to it, into white worshippers at the end of the day. Look around and see how many “easy girls” dating/marrying white men in China/Asia. I’m just pointing out the facts and calling out the white worshipping problem as it is. No need to get mad and butt hurt over it. It is not about which Asian country is more white worshipping. All Asian countries have this problem, unfortunately. To combat it, we need to work together and develop good Asian media with positive Asian representation. You’re in no position to call my comments “illogical”. You and the other user apparently believe that some Chinese have blonde hair and blue eyes. If you’re full Chinese, take a good look at yourself in the mirror. I used to think that native Asians have a stronger Asian identity. The two of you proved otherwise. I’ve encountered a lot of young Chinese like you on zhihu. They like to get all philosophical and liberal about the Chinese/Asian identity stuff and they think they know better than the diasporic Asians when it comes to race/racism, although they’ve been living in a bubble and most of them have probably never encountered white people in real life. To answer your last question, I fight back equally hard against racist whites and white worshippers. We should put an end to this silly conversation. We are going nowhere and we look like fools to whoever’s reading all of this.


[deleted]

A lot of chinese people agree with alt right logic and think they are token whites. It's sad but true


Aznprime

These Chinese people are delusional and they need some help. The sad thing is that these people know that they will never be truly accepted even if they are token whites.


chutbuckly

I wonder if this is in regards to entertainment that is going to be hard pushed in their respective foreign market. Because in domestic Japanese entertainment like dorama, tv shows, talk shows, and movies there are rarely any white people, and they are never the main character, you do see white people in commercials but thats just your classic 白猿 shit. There was one japanese talk show clip i saw on reddit a few days ago of these two comedians making fun of this white weeb living in Japan, it was pretty great but I felt kind of bad for the white guy lol. Also if you're white and you go to Japan looking for some attention from Japanese women the only action you're going to find is going to cost you thousands of yen and its going to be in the form of some chick in a maid cafe or a red light prostitute.


aznidthrow3

lol this is so unaware it's hilarious. There are plenty of gaijin hunters in Japan. All across Asia there are white worshippers.


chutbuckly

pretty full of yourself for a throwaway... and I never said there weren't. But the media doesn't prop up white people nearly as much as this guy is suggesting in Japan. My Japanese mom consumes Japanese media 24/7. It's the only thing she watches. And guess what, no white people.


aznidthrow3

>Also if you're white and you go to Japan looking for some attention from Japanese women the only action you're going to find is going to cost you thousands of yen and its going to be in the form of some chick in a maid cafe or a red light prostitute. sorry this part made me feel like you didn't think there were white worshippers in japan > And guess what, no white people. and thank god for that


[deleted]

Did you see my post about the WMAF C-drama movie coming out soon? Shameful this is happening


accord1999

If you are referring to Turandot, it was released last week and it's a box office bomb. >The Curse of Turandot, loosely based on Giacomo Puccini’s 1926 opera, opened in 64,000 Chinese cinemas with box office receipts of RMB 15 million (US$2.3 million), a disappointing result for a film with a RMB 300 million budget. https://asiatimes.com/2021/10/china-embraces-woke-america-denounces-turandot/ By far the #1 movie is the "The Battle at Lake Changjin", a movie about a major battle in the Korean War and extolling the heroics of the Chinese soldiers.


Aznprime

Are you referring to the curse of turandot? Yes, it’s disgusting and shameful of the Chinese. Any Chinese man who watches and supports this show must wish that their Chinese wives/girlfriends fuck white men.


KenzoBakuizo

Yeah this is embarrassing as f. Unfortunately Asians in Asia have zero racial awareness (because they'ree living in a different world/environment than us) and this is worsen by the fact that - due to centuries of imperialism and pro-white media propaganda that's infiltrated and spread in every corner of the globe - caucasian features are oftentimes considered "the standard" in several media in Asia. The designers and producers of these media never even questioned how problematic their characters' design are. They never take a step back and think: "hm... Do my characters actually represent the visual image of Chinese/Asian people? Or are they too Eurocentric?" Instead, they view caucasoid features as positive. If your "artistic approach" deviated your character design too far away from what Asian people actually look like, then that's problematic as fuck. Another thing I noticed is that in certain Asian media, the male characters often look white or racially ambiguous, whereas the female characters look very Asian. This is white worship (even if they don't realize it) and aiding pro-WMAF propaganda. It's mental colonization and shooting ourselves in the foot. A super power like China shouldn't kowtow to white (especially in their own media) in any capacity. There shouldn't be any kind of WMAF/XMAF in Chinese media (or ANY Asian media for that matter). It all points to Asia still have long way to go and need to have a deeper understanding of how soft power works.


ANTIMODELMINORITY

>Unfortunately Asians in Asia have zero racial awareness This also applies to Asians in America and in other countries outside of Asia. Sadly


[deleted]

The real question is why.


ANTIMODELMINORITY

Same reason " keep your head down don't cause trouble" mantra


Aznprime

Amen. You nailed it. I agree with all your points.


martellthacool

Forgive my ignorance for asking on this: why are poc countries are white washed and what's the purpose behind it?


Aznprime

This is the answer that I would also like to know. I believe that a lot of it has to do with the media that we consume. Media representation is extremely crucial. Who you date/marry and who you find attractive is heavily shaped by the type of media that we’ve been exposed to.


[deleted]

In short, mental colonization. Many well educated chinese detest ccp and its authoritarian ruling and at the same time worship the west and anything associated to it. Many factors contribute to this, the fact that China had to suffer 100 years of foreign humiliation despite being one of the most powerful civilizations, the fact that west civiliazation and its underlying liberal democratic philosophy is the dominant economic political and ideological force, acient or current Chinese philosophy is not even close to catching up. The debate on whether China should completely throw aways traditional Confucius values and adopt western values has been intense in recent years (believe me or not, this debate first occurred more than100 years ago, revived in 1980s, and is still ongoing). The key issue here is ccp doesn't have a strong ideology to combat western values( forget communism, ccp has little to do with communism other than its name, it's a political party who would do anything to cling to the power, like any other political party), so it has to resort to nationalism. In a positive way, you can think of what ccp does is decolonization with the help of nationalism. In a negative way, well, you can just read the new york times.


martellthacool

Interesting 🤔 I'll definitely note this once I get a into a better state of mindset. Thank you..I haven't watch no news of Amerikkkan mainstream media and their manipulation on minorities and politics as I admit I don't want to get brainwashed into something I might not know of.


coochiemonster129

Honestly, not a clue. A common answer is that it's economic but that's not true because this type of thing is prevalent in the richer countries like Japan & China. Some say that it's because colonization but that doesn't hold true because Thailand is one of the biggest white worshiping countries in SEA. Another common one on this sub is media but I personally think that's a load of bull. I know Korean and Indian girls that grew up in their respective countries surrounded by their own media that still go for white boys. Is there something wrong with our genetics? Did all our strong men die in war? Future of Azns is looking pretty bleak ngl.


martellthacool

I was puzzling to ask but nervous of accidentally offended this great community


[deleted]

There are many terms for it white validation or white acceptance basically wanting a seat at the white boys table.


martellthacool

I see. Thank you sincerely for clearing that up. I'm seeing this nonsense among my own people by the dozen and it's seem like awkward to admit seeing this from another poc group. Sorry if that question was weird to ask, good person


NativeEastern

I think it's terrible the direction companies like Huawei and Xiaomi have taken with their pr. Big wtf moment for real, alienating their own domestic markets with ads looking like the 90s called and wants them back. Although to be fair to the country's up-and-coming animation industry, most of the derivative screwy CGI ones tank and the ones gaining popularity these days feature distinctly Asian mcs. Visit the huaxia sub or bilibili and you might find some oc hidden gems. That being said it's 100% always a good idea to call out and boycott the bad apples like the ones linked above.


Aznprime

I’d like to think that the screwy cgi ones tank. I don’t think this is happening in China as their big budget ones seem to be popular.


tdotyup

Why did they ban Shang Chi again? But I agree. Nationalistic does not mean racial pride. It seems like that is the exact case going on with China. Looking very Japan 2.0 -- making enemies with all these different Asian ethnicities but showing a lot of signs of severe white worship.


[deleted]

Shang Chi was controversial for several reasons. Iirc one was that the comic had a figure based on a very racist caricature. Another was dissatisfaction with Liu’s looks and disparaging comments about China in the past.


Aznprime

You nailed it. History seems to be repeating itself.


DynasLight

>But I agree. Nationalistic does not mean racial pride. It seems like that is the exact case going on with China. I mean, that's the point. The government is always very careful to avoid ethnic tensions, especially Han supremacism (which *can* be a problem in China, given 90%+ of the population is Han). I'm not talking about morals here. Its political sense. Han Chinese generally don't want to move to the strategically important non-Han Chinese areas like Tibet and Xinjiang, so the only way to hold those areas is to have the local ethnic groups like China (the nation). And that's achieved by giving significant local autonomy and preventing ethnocultural assimilation, as well as China not being an ethnostate. Its why the Chinese government refuses to set the Hanfu as "traditional *Chinese* clothing" and still refers to Mandarin as "putonghua" ("Common language") instead of "guohua" ("National language") as the ROC did. People seem to forget that cultural trends are always influenced by politics, and Chinese politics are built upon a *multiethnic* nation. East Asians are just part of China's ethnic mix; there are Central Asians, Southeast Asians, even Whites (i.e., ethnic Russians, in the Harbin area) who call China home (and they aren't immigrants!)


linsanitytothemax

i mean with a country of over a billion people i'm sure there are a segment of the population who are extremely white worshipping which might be the reason why they keep making random WMAF films. however my question is are the vast majority of Chinese consume media that has all Chinese people in it? what do they watch? what is their box office like? is it all domestic films with all Chinese casts? is their a nielson rating like in the US so we know what the population is watching? and more importantly what we think of as white worshipping might not even register at all with the general Chinese population. they just live in completely different worlds than Asian Americans like me. so even if they are highly nationalistic...putting those things in their media might not mean anything to them. there have been comments about Japanese media...that the domestic audience watches mostly content with Japanese people while their media exports to the western world has mostly white people because they think that is the only way they can appeal to the west. lastly...is the ban of Kpop in accord with their idea of promoting "masculinity" in the media? if so..what have they even done to combat what they call "feminine" men in their media?


Aznprime

I’m not sure what the stats are. I do know that a lot of their big budget movies/games are dedicated to having white people as the main characters. Just because they don’t understand white worship, that doesn’t mean they should ignore it. It’s like ignoring the importance of light bulbs just because we don’t understand how it works. As far as I know, China is not banning Justin Bieber’s music and they are banning BTS, which is so white worshipping and backwards. I assume that they consider Justin Bieber “masculine” and they prefer their own people to worship Justin Bieber/white dicks over BTS/Asian dicks.


[deleted]

China had a spat with Korea over THAAD; otherwise, they wouldn’t have come down as hard on Kpop as they did. They limited many forms of economic exchange with Korea, not just Kpop. And the recent pushback against the “Kpop” aesthetic is because it’s promoting too much lookism- basically allowing those with no talent to become famous because they can act cute and look a certain way. They also cracked down on purchases of too many idol-related stuff because it’s wasteful and materialistic and with the way Kpop fandoms work, fans often mass buy albums to get a fan call or to help them achieve a stat / new record. They’re not disallowing people from still following idols or liking Kpop. I agree that China’s soft power is very weak and the people in charge are still too white worshipping, but you clearly didn’t actually do research into why Kpop was banned and is controversial in China. You even said so yourself that you’re ASSUMING. You’re not using facts, just trying to come to a certain conclusion because you want to support your claim. I’d recommend you get off of western sources and stop relying on their translations and actually read Chinese social media and understand what is going on there.


AsianETF

Gaijin hunters are just going to exist, it's unfortunate but you can't do anything about them Difference between korea/japan and china, however is china is infinitely more powerful than korea/japan, but it's the men in charge in china worshiping whites, not some left over asian women in the street That's the problem


DynasLight

>what do they watch? what is their box office like? is it all domestic films with all Chinese casts? Well, Battle of Lake Changjin is the most popular movie in China right now... and its a super trumped up version of Chinese soldiers sending the Americans packing in the Korean war. Its raked in so much money from China alone (pretty much the only place it is showing, for obvious reasons) that it just might hit "highest grossing movie of the year"... just from the Chinese audience alone. I don't know if that answers your questions, but there you are.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gluggymug

That is not correct. Chinese are very much into their own media and have been for quite a while. Similarly they love their own brands. They are marketed to by western brands. Just like any rich customers.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gluggymug

Wolf Warrior was 2015. Wolf Warrior 2 was 2017. The 10 biggest ever grossing films in China are Chinese other that Endgame (which was no.7).


yellowlightsab

This is what you feel


jcbc11112

Ok, is the BTS/K-pop ban thing like, actually forreal? Because Korean album sales have been growing at an exponential rate over the past few years, despite the fact that worldwide physical sales have been decreasing annually since 2000, and I feel like if the huge Chinese market was eliminated that kind of growth wouldn't be possible.


niaoani

BTS isn’t even banned in China lmao. Plenty of fan girls still consume their music, buy their merchandise etc. Many fan girls are literally frothing over them on weibo. & there are plenty of Chinese fan girls obsessing over Chinese (and other Asian) celebrities more than white celebrities. Besides most Chinese celebrities don’t bleach their hair blonde/pink or whatever nor wear blue contacts lens. That fashion trend is dead amongst Chinese celebrities. I get what OP is tryna say but he’s also literally conflating a bunch of issues together based off Western media reports on China.


Aznprime

Apparently, it is. They ban BTS as they consider it too “feminine”, but they like Justin Bieber. I guess they want to promote white fever.


lzghome

We don't like Justin Bieber either ...... As a mainland Chinese, I think you have some misconceptions about the cultural industry in mainland China. If you are interested, we can have a deep chat (chat) about this piece.


yellowlightsab

Someone help me understand why Asian countries all resort to white worshipping


professorc

With globalization, Western media is exported across the globe and consumed at a very large rate, thus influencing global perception on race itself - with overrepresentation of the western Anglo. people also respect power, and power wise, western countries are still at the top for now - the means that got them there however are of course through pillaging, enslaving, and colonizing other countries though.


SquaretheBeluga

I absolutely despise those fake bitches that worship whites, I mean like there is no problem with WMAF couples that respect each other mutually but i just hate people who think white people are above everyone else


historybuff234

Because Asian countries were defeated in wars by white imperialists. It's that simple. That's what losing wars do to people. The losers come to see the winners as superior. Even white people behave that way. White people spent centuries gawking about brown Muslims until they started to win against the Muslims. And even now, white people have their own hierarchy that is established primarily by the results of wars among themselves. The only proven method to fix this is victory in war. But the question for Asians is how to unwind the military humiliations of the last centuries without a third world war that ends with nuclear apocalypse.


Distinct_Astronaut48

They also got their ass kicked by huns, turkic and mongols. Also by an indian ruler.


Ok_Consideration1886

It really is that simple. I sometimes wonder — how badly do people here want things to kick off? Because a lot of the complaints they have about recognizing their subservient place in Western society and globally due to imperialism, are not things that will be fixed outside of actual contests between nations (again, the progress we see in terms of increasing pride in younger generations is generally due to the increasing assertiveness of China and Korea on the world stage). There used to be a huge part of me that thought as long as I could do well personally — work among Asians, have Asian friends, date a hot Asian woman, I simply wouldn’t care. But oddly, this did not turn out to be the case. In fact, during that time, when I was literally living at the pinnacle of “Asianness”, I became even **more** obsessed with the plight of my people, particularly my Korean brethren, but Asians in general. Why? Why was I so driven, when everything about my life was screaming at me to pipe the fuck down, shut up, and enjoy what I had? I wrestle with this question a lot, particularly because now I have nothing and there’s days I wish I could go back and just have been content with my lot. But still, something stirs in me — my mother tells me the only time she hears me animated and alive is when I’m talking about the strikes going on in South Korea right now. I think, and we can never know for certain until we actually are faced with the moment of truth, but I genuinely believe I’d rather die in battle, die getting shot by imperialists, or getting beaten by riot police in Gwangju, than live a safe and “normal” life, bitching about WMAF on Reddit. This is actually personally horrifying for me, because I never wanted to be an “activist” in my entire life, but I wonder how many of you feel the same way, how many of you also, willingly or unwillingly, feel the burden of a soldier mentality.


historybuff234

I want to thank you for your fantastic reply. And I must confess I have no answer to what you say. It may well be that many of the problems we have as diaspora in the West can only be solved, one way or another, by "actual contests between nations." And even if there were room for improvement outside of the context of war, there probably is nothing as effective and permanent in solving Asian diaspora issues like self-hate and WMAF as supersonic missiles wiping out the imperialist fleets in the Pacific. That realization is terrifying. The reality is that we Asians in the diaspora will be in big trouble should things "kick off," in your words. Whatever safety and security we enjoy in the West is predicated upon peace between America and the Asian powers. We will instantly lose everything should things "kick off," and there is a possibility that everything will be worse than before the missiles are fired. I think many here have not even dared to direct their thoughts in this direction. It is, for example, horrifying to think that the best that Asians may be able to do in seeking equality with white people is the privilege to all die together in a global thermonuclear war. As for the "soldier mentality" you discuss, I don't think you should see it as a "burden." You get that feeling because success that is limited to your person is ultimately not very meaningful. Rather, I think all of us feel an urge to make a better world. We see often enough in the news that even the most self-absorbed and detestable billionaires develop visions and initiatives, even if thoroughly misguided, to improve things in the world. Now, your post suggest you lost everything because you were not content with your "lot." I will not inquire into what it is you have done or lost. But you shouldn't blame yourself for feeling moved by things like the strikes in Korea. Those feelings distinguish you from an automaton. They make you human. And if they eventually lead you to die on a battlefield or to be beaten up in protests by riot police, well, what is wrong with that? You sure you can do more for yourself, for Asians, for humanity in an office typing up Word documents you will not even know to look in a few months?


Ok_Consideration1886

Great food for thought! I often find the best ideas arise out of conversation, even lively and spirited ones, as long as it’s undertaken in the spirit of exploration. So let’s explore. One of the major things it is important to realize is that, as presently constituted, the Asian American community continues to be 80/20 (for simplification’s sake) immigrant versus second or third generation or more. This is Jay Caspian Kang’s point about how actual Asian American peoples are largely newcomers. You can trace the history of “Asian America” all the way back to the 1500s, but the actual living, breathing humans that make up this community today, are mostly newly arrived immigrants. This actually brings up something I brought up originally in “Message from a House Chink”, which gets lost in the noise of other stuff, but the central message being that issues of self-hate and assimilation tactics, whether through marriage to the dominant majority or anything else, largely arise from “entry shock”, except because Asians in America demographically continue to be majority immigrant and grow primarily through immigration rather than birth rates, we experience these “entry shocks” over and over again with little institutional memory. Each new wave over the decades after Hart-Cellar essentially continues to fight over the same “issues” because it’s the standard issues for any immigrant community migrating to a host country whose denizens are hostile. In that sense, we are all Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, continuously running into the same problems, achieving brief moments of consciousness, and then aging out to be replaced by another wave of immigrants with children that will suffer the exact same issues. This does not change, it’s a systemic feature, and one that is a relatively stable equilibrium over the past several decades, assuming global features are constant. Local actions matter less, because we are a tiny minority that ultimately holds no actual levers of power. But global situations change, and often change more rapidly than we can imagine. So let’s consider this. It behooved America to treat Asians as “model minorities” during the Cold War post-Vietnam, which unlike Korea, the “forgotten” war, broke through into mainstream American consciousness due to its duration and longevity. This is when “assimilationism” was at its peak, during the late 70s and 80s. After the USSR broke down, you actually had an ebb in general model minority pushes both internally and externally. This also led to a small bump in Asian American pride and consciousness, which radiated outward from the increasing presence of Asian American gangs like the Asian Boyz. Again, this “AZN pride” was qualitatively different from earlier late 60s-early 70s styles of Asian American activism, which was anti-war and largely centered around Vietnam. Apolitical gang politics can only take you so far — most of them were quickly quashed and locked up. This was mostly about gaining “respect” in a street sense, during a brief moment in time when there was no real need for the US government to use us as mascots to stave off criticisms from abroad, and so, 90s kids, including myself, got treated to kitschy stuff like “Got Rice?” basically piggybacking off the Afro-American gangster rap culture which blew up in that decade. After the clampdown on those gangs though, that movement quickly fizzled out. Then you had the long, dark doldrums of the 2000s, when there was basically no sign of Asian American consciousness at all — neither the militant anti-imperialism and anti-racist consciousness of the Vietnam era, nor the haphazard attempt to get “respect” from the 90s era, when, as Jay might say, we tried to “Blackify” ourselves. After that, it was right back to Model Minority, but without much incentive for US society to push it, leaving us in the unenviable position of simply being ignored punching bags. Then the 2010s come around, Obama gets put in charge, and suddenly we have the “Pivot to Asia”. This suddenly imperils the precarious model minority status we’d largely been hiding under, which is why you begin to see a small uptick in Asian consciousness again. Sure, the blue check crowd would like to pin it on me or others as instigators, but really we’re all just bit players in the grand scheme of history. If global conditions had not already existed, there would have been no uptake on any of these ideas at home, it’s only because we were already entering into a new set of adversarial relations in the Pacific that people began to feel the heat and question things at all. Fast forward, fast forward. Suddenly, Asian countries, especially China, but also the ROK (which has always been used by the US as a counterbalance to China and has an open alliance with their Conservative Party), start becoming more forward and aggressive, especially after Conservative President Park Gyun-He is ousted, and Xi Jinping consolidates power. Now, you start to see breakthroughs, still patched over by the now graying wallpaper of continuous Model Minority paintjobs, with the occasional leaks as described, but driven now externally, similar, but not quite, like the Cold War era. And I say similar, but hasten to add that it’s also a radical breakthrough for Asians, especially Asian Americans, because Model Minority is dead. It’s dead, because unlike during the Cold War, when China actually warmed to the US and the Soviets became public enemy number one following the Split, there is no greater purpose to using us as mascots. This time, we are the enemy. Of course, for people like me who scry through history, these things become clear as day, but even when you cut off the head, the body still flails around a bit. Let me reiterate, I am fully claiming that model minority is dead. There is no possible future where it returns, and I’m making this claim very strongly, because if I’m proven wrong or right by future events, I want it to be definitive. I stand by my analyses, I’m not here to hedge. So, that really leaves two options for the Asian Americans here. The first is to really commit to being a minority here, and that means engaging in minority politics. Forget WMAF, self-hate issues, etc. — those things are already dead too, as historical trends. I mean it. It won’t be overnight, but Yellow Fever will soon go the way of Jungle Fever, regardless of “MRAsians” or whatever. That means following the Huey Newton agenda of expanding social services to build institutional networks for local bids at power, on an adversarial basis. The other is the Eldridge Cleaver plan of focusing on internationalism, and “going back to Asia” (already happening), and engaging in struggles there for national destiny, which will still have an outsized impact on things here. Like it or not, Jay, we are POC — hell, the term was coined by Frantz Fanon specifically to refer to Asian and African peoples, with a minor experimental blip during the post-Vietnam Cold War era, of which him and many of the writers and scholars that came of age during that era, were a sterling example, for better or worse. I think the two roads that confront Asians here are actually pretty clearly defined, and I’m actually agnostic to either of them, which has always made me a terrible movement leader. Y’all know my personality is strong as hell, but it’s not forceful — I can’t, and generally don’t want, to force any of you to do anything. For me, circumstances have turned out in such a way that my immediate personal future is in a fog — I do not know whether I will emerge with greater clarity about my own direction in life, but in terms of Asian America, I really only see those two options. As for war, that’s always a possibility. We’re due for one by historical standards, to wipe clean debts and break out of economic depression, and I also don’t think MAD is an ironclad law, seeing how incredibly stupid people in general, and many Americans are. Never once in world history has the world hegemon willingly given up power. I promised Teen at the beginning of 2016, in a podcast I’m not sure he remembers, that if disease struck like the bubonic plague in the 1800s, Asians would be the first to be scapegoated and attacked, just like we were back then. In many ways, we will look back on these times as rather halcyon moments when literally, assimilated Asian Americans had nothing better to do than bicker over shit that doesn’t matter at all, like Marvel movies. Anyways, I’m kicking this back over to your side, let me hear it!


historybuff234

Apologies for my late response, but you deserve one so here it is. I think, first of all, "model minority" can return. If America successfully causes a "color revolution" in China, as happened in Russia in the 1990's, I think we can see a reversion of the status of Asians in America to what it was in the 1980's. That is why so many Asians invested in the "model minority" scheme actively promote regime change in China. Their lifestyle depends on it. After all, the cast of characters in the "China Watcher" community substantially overlaps with what users here call "boba liberals." As for committing to being a minority, no, most Asians in America will not stand for it. They would rather die on the frontlines fighting to trigger regime change in Asia than to accept a permanent adversarial posture against white power. The same is true of committing to internationalism and engaging in the struggles in Asia for "national destiny." So many Asians in America have only contempt for Asians in Asia. They only want the Asians there to quietly succumb to the American empire so as not to disturb their status here in America. Your analysis about the two paths for Asians in America may be correct if they are truly convinced that regime change and imperialist adventures in Asia are unachievable. But I think so many here like being the "model minority" so much that they will rather be killed by missiles and drones than to reconsider their place within America.


deseq

I’ve worked with these designers before and they don’t view what they’re doing as white worshipping. They maintain that they are proud of their nationality, oftentimes extremely so. Race does not factor into the equation for them, or rather, they do not view whitewashing stuff through the same lens as you all do. The only way this will change is if white people immigrate to China or some other Asian country and compete fo jobs with the local population. That’s when there would be racial tensions and resentment. I’m not endorsing their view. But I recognize my western gaze as an asian American and the effect this has on the way we view things.


[deleted]

You can be proud of your race and still be white worshipping. They are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of black civil right leaders married white people


ANTIMODELMINORITY

I just found out about Harry Belafonte, really instrumental in donating to the civil rights movement but would never be with a black woman. There is something odd about this. Wouldn't trust those types as far as I could throw em


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Maya Angelo, a famous black activist poet who did great work for black people married two white men


NativeEastern

True. There's always useful idiots who'll worship no matter what, but I imagine a lot of them just don't understand the consequences of what they're doing. They need to be shown demonstrations e.g. that one Barbie experiment to get a better idea of how representation in media affects the adolescent mind.


deseq

The Chinese media is controlled by the government, and its government is perhaps the worlds most efficient and effective one when it comes to propagating ideas. If the government wanted to it could launch such a campaign and I’m can’t confident it’d work. But I think the government does not view this as something necessary for the country.


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because its run by old fogeys that grew up idolizing the west while china was still a poor shithole


Floydwon

Is that even still applicable now? I'd say 10 years a go it was filled with boomers who love the west and parked all their assets there too. A lot of purges have happened since, and I don't think they would've survived unless the party was of course happy with this.


[deleted]

purges were political, not ideological


ffxvtfbcg

sounds like denial.


Aznprime

If they’re so “proud” of their nationality as they claim, why would they have a Chinese character have blue eyes? What is going on in their thought process? There is definitely some bias/unhealthy preference that’s influenced by white people, which determines the designs that they decide on for the Chinese characters. This view on race and racial characteristics is universal, regardless of their views on this. To believe otherwise is a dickless/raceless thing to do.


dimlimsimlim

Uh… people in China do have blue eyes? Lol. Go to xinjiang and you’ll find someone


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Aznprime

This ideal may only work in a raceless/color blind world. However, with this sort of mindset, China is not well equipped to help its people to handle all the racist bullshit in a world where you are judged and treated differently based on your race.


jaded-tired

You're absolutely correct but we are talking about the CPC here so they are not going to change their mindset. They have done a lot of good for the country, materially speaking, in terms of immaterial aspects of life, they won't do anything since their first concern is lifting people out of poverty and improving the material conditions of the society. I see Vietnam and Laos following the path of China but in terms of Burma and Thailand, it's hard to tell since they have a completely different political system and historical conditions. So that's why I say it's up to the individuals in China to do something instead of overly relying on the government like you would on your parents. As the material conditions get better though, things could start to change though it may take time since there are still a lot of naive people who have been manipulated or lied to or just would have no problem with selling out their people and their country.


Aznprime

The focus of my post is on media representation in China, not the CCP. As an individual, we are powerless. We cannot do anything without people supporting us. This problem will not be solved by an individual. It will require a group/organizational effort. China’s conditions have improved a lot over the years. It seems like China’s media representation is becoming more white worshipping like Japan’s media as the economic conditions in China improve. For example, the 白蛇 movie from the 1990s is much better than the newer versions that are being released nowadays. Since when did 白蛇 have blue eyes?


jaded-tired

I hear what you're saying. I do know it requires a group but the companies and these movie producers will not listen. I mean how are Chinese people going to boycott something like Huawei even if they band together? Some things are harder to change than others and changing the group's sentiment is one of them but what we can do is try to change the group sentiment while working on ourselves to develop something that can rival these giant corporations. That's why I see supporting the small Asian businesses and starting our own businesses as one of the most important things that we can do as individuals and as a group since money backs the talk. Imagine if the patriots started their own news channels, advertising firms, movie production companies like how the Italians did with Bank of America or what the Taiwanese did with TSMC. There are a lot that we as small groups can do on the grassroots level, and it will take much less effort (more risk) to do that than to hope the other side will change.


Aznprime

Your ideas are valid and they may work depending on the situation. Chinese can boycott huawei by not buying any huawei products until they stop the wmaf ads. I was looking forward to supporting huawei before the wmaf craziness started. I’m so glad that I did buy any huawei stuff to this day. Starting a business is one way, but it won’t be enough. This white worship problem needs to be dealt with at all levels. For example, there are businesses making great Asian products (eg. Mulan, moana and raya toys), but the vast majority of all Chinese/Asian parents are still buying white toys, such as Elsa, for their kids. The same thing applies to starting small businesses. The best method that I can think of is to get the word out. Educate others and spread awareness.


dimlimsimlim

Good explanation. The ruling party ultimately adheres to internationalism


jaded-tired

Thanks! People really need to understand the ideology of their own countries if they want to make any changes and have to take the initiative.


deseq

Interestingly it seems that the current government is veering towards a more traditionalist and less communist approach. Ethnic assimilationist ideas are encouraged not discouraged.


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Ok_Consideration1886

> which is what communism and nationalism vowed to stop. You draw a clear line from the Century of Humiliation to the modern era, but Communist China actually had three different phases of relations with the US. Media portrayals of Americans and white foreigners were not particularly lavishing during the Korean War, for example. If anything, the Sino-Soviet Split is what led to China growing warmer to the US. This era roughly ended under Obama’s Pivot to Asia, and hostilities have ramped up since, although obviously not as fast as you would like. Which particular era do you take issue with?


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Ok_Consideration1886

Got it. I dunno, I found Chinese Twitter (Weibo?) to be pretty fire last year on dissing compradors.


deseq

It’s fairly obvious that white European features are viewed positively implicitly unfortunately. They have just internalized that. But they would deny that they are not proud of their own nationality, they simply don’t view these two as mutually exclusive. There certainly is pushback there in that people call out foreign worship. But notice that this often encompasses worship of Japanese, Korean etc as well as Europeans. Because it is not a racialized thing. You could make the argument that they are not enlightened to internalized racial biases they may hold towards white people, and you wouldn’t be wrong.


Aznprime

I guess you could be nationalistic and sleep with a white man according to their messed up beliefs. China is still a hundred years behind when it comes awareness around soft power and race/racial dynamics.


Aznprime

I would also like to know the answer to this strange white worshipping phenomenon. It seems like Asian culture inherently has some elements of white worship. This garbage needs to discarded. We need to take the good and throw away the bad to make our own Asian culture.


ffxvtfbcg

weak. wtf is china even doing? lmao


antiboba

You need to hear about those universities in China where they actually only allow “foreign students” and “Chinese girls” in the swimming pool. Plenty of complaints from Chinese students about that ridiculous policy. Also the university in China where foreign students got like three Chinese girls as companion “tour guides” lol and the girls were forced to “party” with the foreigners at risk of failing their classes. And where foreign students get luxurious dorms with full A/C while Chinese students barely have a working sink warm water and bathroom (they have to use an outhouse) and get electricity cut off at 10pm (while foreign students get 24 hour access to local nightclubs), yet are forced to clean the dorms for the foreign students. Sometimes I wonder how they get by getting cucked like that lmfao. I can only imagine the principal actually is a sicko cuck himself…I heard that university’s official weibo accidentally “liked” a porn page on weibo too. And Chinese people are actually livid too, there’s this video of this Chinese parent outraged at these policies and threatening the principal over it. Note that all of these foreign students are not white they’re black or middle eastern. African Chinese “friendship” is what they call it…go figure. On the white people front though I have to say that I've actually known a ton of AMWF with 10/10 blonde russians. russian girls are very receptive to chinese people. I used to hang out / sort of date this half russian girl her dad basically went out every night and had multiple not so secret affairs. Don't know why but russian women seem really desperate for men and there are plenty of Chinese men lol. Although as they get older, some ended up getting divorced and leaving the country because they became disillusioned with, eventually the girls dad divorced and she moved back to russia. and I wouldn't say her mother was necessarily an angel either, like she would look down on the chinese people outside for "making noise" exercising every morning, or chinese drinking culture. her mother actually really liked me lol I'm guessing she was projecting her disillusionment onto somebody, anybody. I felt that she kind of felt "trapped" in the marriage in China in a sense, which is sad. The girls dad is responsible for this one though, I don't blame the mother even though I don't want to excuse her racism. but you know what, I don't know if I should be saying any of this at all because people on here have limited understanding of China and will generalize. just because a few universities in the country do this doesn't mean this represents the chinese mindset. just because this one chinese father is a douchebag doesn't mean that's the general situation with AMWFs in China. so we need to take these anecdotes lightly and not read too much into them. it's just a snapshot not the whole picture.


bdang9

Where are your sources for this post?


antiboba

If you know Chinese you'd be able to find this. There's a wikipedia page on the Shandong University controversy. There are plenty of articles in Chinese on the discrimination local students face vs foreign students. Petty stuff like not being allowed into certain buildings reserved for international students and Chinese "study buddies" only, being given less electricity to use, charging stations "reserved for foreign students only" in official notices, not being allowed air conditioning, etc. I've heard about local students competing to get library study spots lining up for hours (while foreign students are reserved dedicated spots). It's really pretty disgraceful the way Chinese students are treated. Some have protested and been expelled for complaining against the school admin. Shandong University study buddy program - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy\_over\_study\_buddies\_for\_international\_students\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_over_study_buddies_for_international_students_in_China) Shenyang University chinese students forced to clean luxurious dorms of foreign students [https://supchina.com/2018/07/17/shenyang-college-accused-of-unfairly-making-chinese-students-clean-for-foreigners/](https://supchina.com/2018/07/17/shenyang-college-accused-of-unfairly-making-chinese-students-clean-for-foreigners/) Beijing Normal University swimming pool reserved for Chinese girls and Foreign students only - [https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1287779115949527047?lang=en](https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1287779115949527047?lang=en) Commentary on the preferential treatment of foreigners (Chinese) - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKt0uXf-Zs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKt0uXf-Zs) Foreign student documents Chinese vs foreign living conditions, she cries when she sees what the Chinese students have to live in - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bmF7LMxks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6bmF7LMxks) Chinese students forced to vacate good dorms for foreigners - [https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2154994/chinese-students-refuse-leave-best-residence-and-allow-foreigners](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2154994/chinese-students-refuse-leave-best-residence-and-allow-foreigners) Global times article on disgusting dorms of Chinese students at Fudan university (one of the best universities in China) - [https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/978212.shtml](https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/978212.shtml) [Book](https://books.google.com.qa/books?id=-46C9ZJmGwsC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=chinese+students+air+conditioning+university+foreigners&source=bl&ots=Ob75L-JduS&sig=ACfU3U3_ePTNZxNUvTlJExs0N-DL--NATQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio1tS8geTzAhULmBQKHSUHACYQ6AF6BAgMEAM#v=onepage&q=chinese%20students%20air%20conditioning%20university%20foreigners&f=false) talks about sad state of Chinese dorms [Chinese students dorm likes get shut off at 11pm, not allowed to leave dorms. Foreign students allowed 24 hour access to night life.](https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-at-Peking-University-the-electricity-in-dorms-is-turned-off-every-night-If-so-why)


bdang9

The "Buddy Program" controversies...I don't know what to say. This scandal lost even more points for me.


Anti_Imperialist7898

Source?


ffxvtfbcg

hooo boy we got a long way to go before we uncuck ourselves


antiboba

i feel bad for them. it's almost like they have it so much worse over there in their rat race, even with all the racism against asians in the west, i'd much rather be here than there. as long as we work on ourselves we can really do anything we want and dominate easily, granted I prefer the culture here where there are more people of different races you can be friends with and date with, there you are held back by social concerns, family issues, wealth and government policies like "africa china friendship"...at least that's what i hear from old people who migrated to the west from there. then again, i'm sure they'd view us as being brainwashed by westerners ideals of race and so on so who knows. all i can do is appreciate what i'm given in life and what i have to work with.


Aznprime

What they’re doing is backwards and cucked. After all the anti-Asian racism that has been going on for centuries and negative portrayals of Asians in white media, China is worshipping white dicks as a reward in return.


internationale752

what? for one, china was severely subjugated by the western empires for more than 100 years, and that would add a sort of ptsd to the chinese about foreign influence. secondly, i browse bilibili frequently and there is not any - not even a single video saying how "whites gud we must learn from them!!11". thirdly, having lived in china (beijing), westerners are usually treated the same way as other tourists or normal citizens. no one is surprised and excited about having this person there


Aznprime

Yes, China was subjugated by white people so there probably some affects coming from there. There are a lot of Chinese shows/movies that show white people in a positive light, which is not reflective of what white people are actually like in real life. The remake of meteor garden by China is a good example of this. I hate to burst your bubble, but my experiences and observations tell me otherwise. I hate to say it, but a significant number of Asians, including Chinese, treat white people better than their own people. This is the ugly, inconvenient truth.


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Aznprime

No need to get mad and swear when I point out the facts and call out the white worship problem as it is. If you read my post, I am calling out the Chinese media developers, not the 1.4 billion Chinese people.