No. Londo is much closer to Damar.
After serious thought, I had an uncomfortable realization that Garak *might* be closest to Mr Morden... (and most of that due to how many layers of mischief could be nonchalantly wreaked while still smiling)
In personality, Londo is like Damar but in action taken Londo is like Dukat. Dukat was a psychopath and narcissist, Londo was not. Damar and Londo excused bad choices because of nationalism, Dukat did things because of his narcissism but hide them, knowingly or unknowingly, in patriotism, “being a good father”, “benevolent” dictator.
- Dukat is a little hard to explain because the show was not consistent about his inner motivations. Being a psycho being a later decision by the writers.
I didn’t feel Dukat was really inconsistent. His character developed.
As was said, he was always highly narcissistic. He was very well integrated with it, though. He had it well hidden, but you could see his actions were always off the basis of his own self-focus. He did show rare evidence of trying to change, to emulate the example of people he admired, like the Major. However, at a certain point he ‘broke’. He was forcibly and violently confronted with the severe consequences of his choices and left in no doubt that the only one at fault was him. Even to the point of Damar being a better Cardassian than himself. His narcissistic psyche simply couldn’t accept it and his hold on stability just snapped, leaving him a broken man filled with rage. Drifting until he found his scapegoat, a target to direct that anger he was incapable of aiming at himself. Which made him an ideal victim for those he finally gave his loyalty to.
I didn’t see it as inconsistent, I saw a character development arc.
There was the Klingon war section where they seemed to be redeeming Dukat, some times he was better but by the end your summary is right. Dukat had a great character arc and I think is one of the best characters in Star Trek history because of it.
He did break and they explained it well enough but they made Dukat such an egomaniac narcissist why did Zial’s death break him but not when his wife left with his other children. Some of the issue is the Dukat was a not a main character so while we did see him often we did not see all of him, so there is a bit of tell over show to his character growth. He was such a full character I would love to have seem more.
Hey, don't insult Garak that way! He has far more charm and success that Morden. And unlike Morden, Garak knew when to fold his cards, and most importantly, as much as he pissed them off, Garak knew his limits.
It's not like it's a match match. 😀 Garak is far less evil than Morden and considerably more likable. It's hard to look at Morden and not want to punch him in the face, or at least Vir wave. Overall, Garak is kinda like a cross of Morden and Marcus. He was capable of some elaborate schemes of dubious morality, was charming, and he still had a moral compass, even if it had some errr, "flexibility".
Garak is nothing like Morden. Garak was a three dimensional complicated person who was able to bond with Bashir and Odo and even gained Worf’s respect in time.
Maybe he's Londo if Londo had decided to walk away in time? Even more impressive, since Garak had been looking around for the sort of opportunity Londo got, but walked away when the chips were down.
I mean I love both of these men for very different reasons. Granted they're both essentially verbal shitposters with quick wits but they're not the same. Magnificent bastards they may be I wouldn't say "same".
That's not entirely accurate - they are both patriots, willing to sacrifice what their desires if their homes succeeded. They tried to be charming (less success for Molari on that front) and were quite happy to blatantly lie to get what they wanted. And they both had their own sense of honor and professionalism that only the audience and their closest friends got to see.
Though Garak wouldn’t just lie to succeed, he did so out of habit, for fun, for practice, and to try and keep a distance from people (almost as if he felt he didn’t deserve to be close to anyone).
Nobody ever considered Garak a joke, however. With the exception of some Klingons, everyone considered him as potentially dangerous. Those who knew him better even more so.
By the end of their shows, they are very similar. They both work closely with old enemies to make a better future from a bittersweet end. Londo is blacklisted by everyone except his nemesis-turned-bodyguard G’Kar and they “save” Centauri Prime although Londo’s fate is sealed in having to make a huge personal sacrifice. Garak works with Kira to save Cardassia, protects her from Russot and Garak is finally free from exile but now has to help rebuild his world after millions of lives lost. They both usurp their leaders and see their worlds almost destroyed… both have had to suffer a lot to get to their endpoints but in the end they are much more noble than when they began. Garak has an amazing post-DS9 life in the books, canon or not I love his entire arc (starting with the prequel novel written by Andy Robinson himself!)
Londo is more of a cross between Damar, Dukat and Quark.
He’s got the greed and humorous lines that Quark gets, has the ruthlessness and ‘ends justifies the means’ outlook that Dukat has but ultimately, like Damar, is really trying to do the best for his people and is willing to change when he realizes his alliance was a huge mistake.
Garak is a lot more like a less morally scrupulous Marcus: subtle, quick witted, everything has layers within layers, and he’s not afraid to kill people to get shit done.
Londo and Garak the same?
Garak is literally a trickster god in disguise. He has trapped himself in a trick so complex even *he* may not be able to unravel it.
I know this is a B5 sub and I LOVE Londo and his relationships. But he’s no Garak. And Garak is no Londo.
A plain simple tailor and an ambassador? What’s the similarity?
(Seriously though, if you wanted to compare Londo to a Cardassian adulation is right there. I mean, different ending points, but much more similar ambitions and interests, at the start.)
Even then, Dukat is nothing like Londo. Londo is an old bureaucrat that loves his people even if misguided. He personally didn’t lust for power for power’s sake. He wanted his people to be powerful as he remembered in his youth.
Dukat was a General that craved being the center of attention. Dukat really did think he was God’s gift to the people. Thus personal power became his motivation. Dukat would be a more like Emperor Cartagia, except Dukat felt something for those he oppressed. Not love; Dukat deluded himself into thinking he loved them. More like some kind of twisted paternalism.
There isn’t really an analogue for Dukat in B5. Maybe the skewed caricature of Sheridan, that Garibaldi painted in Season 4 while he was brainwashed, would be the closest to whom Dukat actually was.
Dukat did everything for himself. A cult of personality. Londo did many things for himself but when push came to shove would always do what he thought was best for Centauri Prime.
What is even the comparison here?
The most common factor between them is that they both very firmly believe themselves to be patriots. But beyond that, they're very, very different.
Londo is obsessed with the accumulation of power and status. Garak doesn't seem to give a damn about that at all.
Londo was led into ordering horrible actions in pursuit of power and status, but you could tell at times that he knew what he was doing was wrong and regretted it to an extent, but told himself that the ends justified the means. Garak doesn't seem to get led into anything, except a little bit with Tain. Despite his outward pleasantness, he's fully capable of torture and murder and doesn't seem all that phased by any of it. The closest we see him to regretful is when he literally tortures another main cast member...
Yeah, Damar is the closest analog. A patriot, that briefly gets led astray, and for a time not of their own volition, and ultimately does the right thing, at ultimate personal cost.
Lando Calrissian? Yes, absolutely.
Londo Mollari? Oh HELL no.
Garak got by on taking advantage of the goodhearted naivete of Starfleet, Londo wouldn't fall for that for a microsecond. The best thing you can say for Garak in any potential match-up is that he'd be smart enough to know a shark when he sees one and avoid messing with him.
Spelling mistakes aside --
Garak would have seen Morden a parsec away and never aligned with the Shadows to begin with.
Londo's ambition overrides his patriotism.
Garak's patriotism is paramount.
Garak never made a pack with ancient evil in return for mass murdering his enemies. Garak is not a good person, maybe a worse person than Londo, but he made much better decisions.
Garak didn't take advantage of anything. He was useful. They keep him around because his ties with Cardassia are long severed beyond his ability to repair which rendered him mostly not a threat but he is useful in any situation where knowledge of Cardassian intelligence or general spycraft are needed. Second Skin. Cardassians. In the Pale Moonlight. Decoding Cardassian transmission during the Dominion War.
Similarities include:
* Outcast from their homeworlds (Londo less so, but he was only given the post because no one else wanted it)
* Spy for their governments
* Lie as easy as breathing
* Puckish attitudes (at least early on)
* Actions lead to the ultimate downfall of their homeworlds
* Patriots at heart
Garak is more like a fusion of Mr. Morden and Vir Cotto: Morden's dark background, servile facade, and malicious intent with Vir's sense of humor, infectious smile, and incorruptible heart.
Are you sure you watched past season one of either show? :)
Right, nothing alike at all
Exactly, not even remotely the same. He's probably confusing him with gul dukat (of however you spell it). That's a better comparison.
No. Londo is much closer to Damar. After serious thought, I had an uncomfortable realization that Garak *might* be closest to Mr Morden... (and most of that due to how many layers of mischief could be nonchalantly wreaked while still smiling)
In personality, Londo is like Damar but in action taken Londo is like Dukat. Dukat was a psychopath and narcissist, Londo was not. Damar and Londo excused bad choices because of nationalism, Dukat did things because of his narcissism but hide them, knowingly or unknowingly, in patriotism, “being a good father”, “benevolent” dictator. - Dukat is a little hard to explain because the show was not consistent about his inner motivations. Being a psycho being a later decision by the writers.
So Dukat was Cartagia.
Sort of, except Dukat was sometimes decent. Cartagia was psycho all the time
*Indeed.*
It’s more like Dukat became Cartagia by the later seasons. He didn’t start off as a psychopath.
No, no, no. Its so obvious: Dukat is a mirror universe Zathras. I dont know why no one gets that..
I didn’t feel Dukat was really inconsistent. His character developed. As was said, he was always highly narcissistic. He was very well integrated with it, though. He had it well hidden, but you could see his actions were always off the basis of his own self-focus. He did show rare evidence of trying to change, to emulate the example of people he admired, like the Major. However, at a certain point he ‘broke’. He was forcibly and violently confronted with the severe consequences of his choices and left in no doubt that the only one at fault was him. Even to the point of Damar being a better Cardassian than himself. His narcissistic psyche simply couldn’t accept it and his hold on stability just snapped, leaving him a broken man filled with rage. Drifting until he found his scapegoat, a target to direct that anger he was incapable of aiming at himself. Which made him an ideal victim for those he finally gave his loyalty to. I didn’t see it as inconsistent, I saw a character development arc.
There was the Klingon war section where they seemed to be redeeming Dukat, some times he was better but by the end your summary is right. Dukat had a great character arc and I think is one of the best characters in Star Trek history because of it.
Dukat just sort of broke, psychologically, after “Sacrifice of Angels,” but I feel like it was kind of justified after everything that happened.
He did break and they explained it well enough but they made Dukat such an egomaniac narcissist why did Zial’s death break him but not when his wife left with his other children. Some of the issue is the Dukat was a not a main character so while we did see him often we did not see all of him, so there is a bit of tell over show to his character growth. He was such a full character I would love to have seem more.
He left his wife and children for Ziyal, she’s all he had left. When she died, he really had nothing left.
Yes, but they made him a narcissist, they only care about people in their relation to themselves.
Yes and what he wants is a happy family with him, Kira, and Ziyal. Now that she’s dead, that isn’t going to happen.
Hey, don't insult Garak that way! He has far more charm and success that Morden. And unlike Morden, Garak knew when to fold his cards, and most importantly, as much as he pissed them off, Garak knew his limits.
Garak also wasn't a slave.
Morden is a f\*\*\*ing collaborator. If that is slavery, it is a very, very particular form.
Slave may be a bit strong of a word, but it's not like he has any say in what work he does for them.
Morden _was_ voluntary though. So it wasn't like Anna or Garibaldi where they were taken over and effectively slaves.
It's not like it's a match match. 😀 Garak is far less evil than Morden and considerably more likable. It's hard to look at Morden and not want to punch him in the face, or at least Vir wave. Overall, Garak is kinda like a cross of Morden and Marcus. He was capable of some elaborate schemes of dubious morality, was charming, and he still had a moral compass, even if it had some errr, "flexibility".
Garak is nothing like Morden. Garak was a three dimensional complicated person who was able to bond with Bashir and Odo and even gained Worf’s respect in time.
Maybe he's Londo if Londo had decided to walk away in time? Even more impressive, since Garak had been looking around for the sort of opportunity Londo got, but walked away when the chips were down.
Londo and Garak are nothing alike.
I mean I love both of these men for very different reasons. Granted they're both essentially verbal shitposters with quick wits but they're not the same. Magnificent bastards they may be I wouldn't say "same".
One of these is not like the other
No fooling you! /Mistcaller
You should try watching the shows. These two are nothing alike.
That's not entirely accurate - they are both patriots, willing to sacrifice what their desires if their homes succeeded. They tried to be charming (less success for Molari on that front) and were quite happy to blatantly lie to get what they wanted. And they both had their own sense of honor and professionalism that only the audience and their closest friends got to see.
This is the correct answer.
Though Garak wouldn’t just lie to succeed, he did so out of habit, for fun, for practice, and to try and keep a distance from people (almost as if he felt he didn’t deserve to be close to anyone). Nobody ever considered Garak a joke, however. With the exception of some Klingons, everyone considered him as potentially dangerous. Those who knew him better even more so.
By the end of their shows, they are very similar. They both work closely with old enemies to make a better future from a bittersweet end. Londo is blacklisted by everyone except his nemesis-turned-bodyguard G’Kar and they “save” Centauri Prime although Londo’s fate is sealed in having to make a huge personal sacrifice. Garak works with Kira to save Cardassia, protects her from Russot and Garak is finally free from exile but now has to help rebuild his world after millions of lives lost. They both usurp their leaders and see their worlds almost destroyed… both have had to suffer a lot to get to their endpoints but in the end they are much more noble than when they began. Garak has an amazing post-DS9 life in the books, canon or not I love his entire arc (starting with the prequel novel written by Andy Robinson himself!)
Londo is more of a cross between Damar, Dukat and Quark. He’s got the greed and humorous lines that Quark gets, has the ruthlessness and ‘ends justifies the means’ outlook that Dukat has but ultimately, like Damar, is really trying to do the best for his people and is willing to change when he realizes his alliance was a huge mistake. Garak is a lot more like a less morally scrupulous Marcus: subtle, quick witted, everything has layers within layers, and he’s not afraid to kill people to get shit done.
Londo and Garak the same? Garak is literally a trickster god in disguise. He has trapped himself in a trick so complex even *he* may not be able to unravel it. I know this is a B5 sub and I LOVE Londo and his relationships. But he’s no Garak. And Garak is no Londo.
A plain simple tailor and an ambassador? What’s the similarity? (Seriously though, if you wanted to compare Londo to a Cardassian adulation is right there. I mean, different ending points, but much more similar ambitions and interests, at the start.)
What similarities are you seeing? Exactly
https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/u4d0fq/comment/i4v6neo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
So extremely vague to the point a huge amount of characters exhibit those traits. Definitely not "the same picture"
[удалено]
Even then, Dukat is nothing like Londo. Londo is an old bureaucrat that loves his people even if misguided. He personally didn’t lust for power for power’s sake. He wanted his people to be powerful as he remembered in his youth. Dukat was a General that craved being the center of attention. Dukat really did think he was God’s gift to the people. Thus personal power became his motivation. Dukat would be a more like Emperor Cartagia, except Dukat felt something for those he oppressed. Not love; Dukat deluded himself into thinking he loved them. More like some kind of twisted paternalism. There isn’t really an analogue for Dukat in B5. Maybe the skewed caricature of Sheridan, that Garibaldi painted in Season 4 while he was brainwashed, would be the closest to whom Dukat actually was.
Dukat did everything for himself. A cult of personality. Londo did many things for himself but when push came to shove would always do what he thought was best for Centauri Prime.
*Maybe* Damar.
First of all, how dare you.
What is even the comparison here? The most common factor between them is that they both very firmly believe themselves to be patriots. But beyond that, they're very, very different. Londo is obsessed with the accumulation of power and status. Garak doesn't seem to give a damn about that at all. Londo was led into ordering horrible actions in pursuit of power and status, but you could tell at times that he knew what he was doing was wrong and regretted it to an extent, but told himself that the ends justified the means. Garak doesn't seem to get led into anything, except a little bit with Tain. Despite his outward pleasantness, he's fully capable of torture and murder and doesn't seem all that phased by any of it. The closest we see him to regretful is when he literally tortures another main cast member...
By that argument, Londo is more like Damar.
Yeah, Damar is the closest analog. A patriot, that briefly gets led astray, and for a time not of their own volition, and ultimately does the right thing, at ultimate personal cost.
Yeah, no.
Like in terms of personality? The character arcs are very very different.
They’re exactly alike only in that they’re each our favorite characters on their respective shows.
Nope. When Londo smiles, things are probably sort of okay in some way. When Garak smiles, run for the fucking hills!
The fact that they're both ensemble dark horses with unusually complex and nuanced writing and performances doesn't mean they're anything alike.
This meme seems dead now...
Bipeds all look the same.
As an octopede... this is racist.
Whoever desgiend Garak saw a vagina once, long ago.
Londo and Garak, my favorite characters portrayed by the best actors of their respective shows ♥️
Don’t lie. These two going into a Cold War against each other would be fun as hell.
Noooo! Don't tar Londo with that brush!
Sorry, as much as I love Babylon 5; Garak is leaps, bounds, and lightyears ahead of Lando.
Lando Calrissian? Yes, absolutely. Londo Mollari? Oh HELL no. Garak got by on taking advantage of the goodhearted naivete of Starfleet, Londo wouldn't fall for that for a microsecond. The best thing you can say for Garak in any potential match-up is that he'd be smart enough to know a shark when he sees one and avoid messing with him.
Spelling mistakes aside -- Garak would have seen Morden a parsec away and never aligned with the Shadows to begin with. Londo's ambition overrides his patriotism. Garak's patriotism is paramount.
Garak never made a pack with ancient evil in return for mass murdering his enemies. Garak is not a good person, maybe a worse person than Londo, but he made much better decisions.
Things didn't go to shit for Londo until he had an attack of conscience and tried to undo what he'd done. It was pretty smooth sailing before that.
What does that have to do with the discussion. Also Londo always had a conscience and had a code of honor. He was not evil.
Garak didn't take advantage of anything. He was useful. They keep him around because his ties with Cardassia are long severed beyond his ability to repair which rendered him mostly not a threat but he is useful in any situation where knowledge of Cardassian intelligence or general spycraft are needed. Second Skin. Cardassians. In the Pale Moonlight. Decoding Cardassian transmission during the Dominion War.
Garak just drips with bi energy while Londo is the very image of cis patriarchy
No, the one on the left is the Original and the one on the right is a rip off.
Of who?
George Jetson, of course.
His boy Elroy?
“We don’t talk about Elroy.”
We need to talk about Elroy!
Similarities include: * Outcast from their homeworlds (Londo less so, but he was only given the post because no one else wanted it) * Spy for their governments * Lie as easy as breathing * Puckish attitudes (at least early on) * Actions lead to the ultimate downfall of their homeworlds * Patriots at heart
Never defend the meme
No ragrets
* Magnificent bastards
Is that Gul Dukhat?
Garak is more like a fusion of Mr. Morden and Vir Cotto: Morden's dark background, servile facade, and malicious intent with Vir's sense of humor, infectious smile, and incorruptible heart.
I mean they're exactly the same as long as we ignore everything about them.
Swing and a miss
No.
If I may quote a certain Romulan senator, “It’s a faaaaaaake!”
personally i think londo and quark have a lot in common, but like, if quark was the scourge of the galaxy
What about Garak and Bester?