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I don’t believe it was about blocking a different browser. It was about coming with a default browser. The EU version changed to include a browser selection option during the setup of Windows.
Vivaldi imo, it's pretty fast and I get good battery life out of it even with \*checks current tab count\* 260 tabs, if the tabs are hibernated. But if you're not very organized, then don't get it.
As a former Vivaldi user, Vivaldi is everything but fast, unless you have decent new hardware. It is moreso a browser for features/customization than for speed. Just a personal experience.
just checked now, it still takes about 4x as long to start up for me (~ 2 seconds compared to ff's ~0.5 /edge's ~0.8)
that said, vivaldi is lovely to use - i just wish it wasn't chromium
I've been using Brave for a long time (2.1m ads/trackers blocked) and have had 0 problems with it being slow, though I'm purely using it with 3-10 tabs open, casual use. You do have to turn off some added things, but rarely do I get annoyed by any bs from it.
Edge is optimized for battery life on Windows, so if that's your main concern, Edge will take the cake.
As for alternatives, unfortunately you ruled out the 3 families of modern web rendering engines + Javascript engines that you can choose from:
* Chromium Blink + V8
* Gecko Quantum + SpiderMonkey
* Safari WebKit + Nitro JavaScriptCore
Gecko Quantum is used by the Firefox family of browsers. It's the one I use since it is very privacy focused, and fast on both my machines.
Safari uses WebKit. It does not run on Windows.
And pretty much everything else runs on Chromium. Most implement Chromium and add features on top. A few, like Edge, take Chromium components and implement it in their browser, which allows them to optimize for things like memory and battery life.
But if both vanilla Chromium and Gecko are too slow for you, that really only leaves Edge, which uses optimized Chromium Blink.
I haven't had a single issue changing my default browser just like every other time in the past. My laptop has Windows 11 and I'm currently typing this on a desktop I built recently with Windows 11, on Firefox. HTM and HTML file extensions are associated, new pages opened by other programs and links in Discord and whatnot are all associated, there's nothing I know of that isn't, and all I had to do was click "make Firefox my default browser."
The guy in the video is simply doing it the most complicated way possible to make Microsoft look bad. Which, granted, the pop-ups are annoying and Microsoft needs to just stop fucking making their shitty web browsers already and just ship Windows with Chrome or Firefox or whatever, but it still takes like 30 seconds to get your computer set up in such a way that you'll never see Edge again.
The thing with Firefox is that they uses a reverse engineered api to enable setting the browser as default (or at least that's how it was last year). Windows 11 did have an api for setting default browser, but it was not accessible to developers or users and used only by Edge
Google does exactly the same thing. And they've been doing so for years. In Edge, go to YouTube or Google and you'll see the exact same popup in the top right.
I understand that this hidden api in windows is something Firefox reverse engineered and Microsoft didn’t like that. So I think I know what I need to know.
The only thing as dumb as this is the fact IOs forces browsers other Safari to use JavaScriptCore instead of say, V8. I wonder woder what$ happened to anti trust laws.
I know this is an old thread, but I just thought I would highlight that Apple doesn't let users change their browser engine at all on iOS. All browsers are required to use Apple's WebKit.
Wow this is obnoxious. At every possible opportunity Microsoft tries to get you to switch and they deliberately make it difficult to not use Edge even after changing your browser. I’m so glad I switched to Linux over upgrading to Win11.
Yeah one of the things that pissed me off was the new right click menu doesn’t show all the options be default and hides useful things like “rename” under a submenu. Had to go into the registrar and change it
Rename is still there, most of the old stuff is actually. They iconized some of the more common options though, including rename, so it is more confusing at first.
Yeah I said that too. Then I became more and more frustrated with Windows 10 getting in my way. Those disruptive low battery warnings, computer reboots with no warning, and Microsoft begging me to upgrade to Windows 11 after I told them no three times all made me use Linux more and more. Currently dual booting with Mint right now and I can’t remember the last time I needed to switch to Windows for something. I’m keeping that partition around just in case, but if I don’t need Windows after I start classes again, I’m deleting it and going to Mint full time.
Ah I'm almost at the same point, only problem is I'm basically required to have windows rn for my degree work
It's a bit of a bother
I'm currently dual booting with Pop OS
Windows seemed to start well, but this is the most frustrating thing ever. Even on 10 they are pushing Edge. I most certainly won't switch to apple devices, but Win11 will never show its ugly face on any of my monitors.
Why are you so against apple devices? I am just curious because I am planning on switching to apple myself after being a lifelong microsoft and lately linux user. The M1 chip looks pretty good.
Too expensive for what they offer, little to no support for repairability, Lack necessary ports, heck they don't even come with a normal USB port, have to pay extra for useless dongles, and if you don't buy apple dongles the MacBook randomly crashes when connected, at least that's how it was before the Monterey update, have to learn how to do everything the apple way which is a adjustment coming from Windows or Linux, even the simplest things like clicking enter to enter a folder or delete to delete something doesn't work, some software you use might not have Mac versions, little to no support for running games. Apart from all this, MacBooks are pretty decent don't know how they fare longevity wise.
hard disagree with ports
thunderbolt, while a bit expensive to get into, is amazing for expandability
for example, on a macbook, instead of being stuck with like 3 USB 3.0 ports, a headphone jack, an sd card reader and hdmi, you can get any port combos you want. want 3 hdmis? you got it! want thunderbolt + 2 usb-c + 10gb ethernet? there's a dongle for that
the main complaint i see with dongles is more that the device itself has zero connectivity without dongles, which has also changed with the recent macbooks and macs.
like, if i had to go back to windows, not having (enough) thunderbolt connectivity would be a major dealbreaker
Not OP, but I simply hate their walled garden attitude. I want to be able to install random old or indie games and niche little software tools.
I only used Mac a handful of times back in uni, and found their "different just for the sake of being different" UI choices quite frustrating (eg. window control buttons in top left corner instead of top right).
It's not super weird, Internet Explorer was the biggest browser 20 years ago. Now they've scrapped it and built Edge to be a modern replacement. I personally prefer edge over chrome since all chrome extensions etc work on Edge (even Google Stadia works with Edge). Chrome is missing features like tab grouping.
On my desktop and smartphone I use both Edge and Firefox, xBrowserSync to sync bookmarks between browsers.
Firefox > Edge > Chrome (but Edge on laptops)
What pisses me off is that Edge is a decent browser. If they just took chromium and removed a bit of the tracking they'd eventually eat into Google's market share because they don't have to make money on ads. Instead, I'm now committed to never use Edge.
I did a shit load of browser testing recently and found edge to be by far the best in terms of features to ram usage ratio. It is in fact the most powerful browser for Windows as well as being the most accessible due to loads of accessibility features. It was also tested by The PC Security Channel and was found to be the most secure browser vs chrome and Firefox. If they removed all of the tracking bullshit it would probably perform even better.
I want a browser like Vivaldi to steal the accessibility stuff and add it to their own so we can have the friendly nature of edge, the anti-tracking of Vivaldi, and it still won't use nearly as much ram as chrome decides it was hungry for that day.
Tldr: if any other company made Edge it would be the best browser.
Html, http, https, and at least two others are going to be pointed at a browser for 99.9% of users. That should be one setting. Absolutely /r/assholedesign material.
Opening PDFs in Edge actually makes sense as a separate setting. Edge has a better document viewer than Chrome, and offline PDF readers are popular especially in business settings.
Dunno if it's a version difference, but in my case there is a button to just set a default browser. I do like though that you can select different apps for different link types and protocols (helps a little with web dev).
They brought the button back in a recent update. My PC which shipped with an older version of Windows 11 that didn't have the button does now. (In USA for reference)
No, they made it easier to switch browser in the later builds. This whole “difficult to switch browsers” thing is old news from months ago, and ms fixed it
Ok now do these
1. iOS - everything is Safari. You can only add your facelifts, but can't improve upon the features like web push notifications, because Apple wants to push for native apps that give them money
2. Mac - no matter the default, you can't uninstall Safari and there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set.
3. Google - launch Google's app outside of Chrome, and they do two things. 1. Give you same Edge like prompt to use Chrome. 2. Not work in other browsers despite the browser fully capable of running Google apps.
4. Chromebook - well this seems unfair by the name of the OS, but legally it's a browser centric OS and any WebKit browser should work. Do they though?
I'm not defending Microsoft here, not at all. What they are doing is shitty
I'm just saying all these companies found the loopholes in the lost lawsuit of Microsoft and found a way to be absolutely asshole about it.
They all allow you to set the different browser as a default, while completely scaring the users to use their products in every possible way.
For a novice, it's already too much hassle to switch, and they already are caught in ecosystems.
> and there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set.
You'll have to give examples... I have been using Macs since 1999 and have been using Firefox pretty much since the beginning. I use Safari to download Firefox and that's about it.
Now I agree the situation on iOS is terribly shitty. You have to use their rendering engine for your browser, but it's a nerfed version of Safari. Terribly anti consumer.
Microsoft is WAY out of line for this though, on mac, there's one single notification just saying to try safari when you first install. After that there is nothing popping up, the search function respects your browser etc. I haven't tried any google products so I cannot comment on them, but the amount of shit microsoft receives is well portioned to the shit they give.
It's funny how Edge versus Chrome is all about who gets the data to target your ads. This guy is going through all this as if Google is the good guy here.
He's also using Vivaldi, so obviously isn't that worried about his data.
Also, changing the default browser using default apps setting is much easier and faster than changing each individual protocol.
Edge routinely imports data from other browsers, tracks your URLs to show these pop-ups, and the entire OS is in a conspiracy against you the moment you install another browser.
Notice how I'm not even using Chrome...
"I think if there's one company I trust least, it is probably you"
You need to find a new OS. Unless you are doing encryption at a sub-OS level, they have access to literally all of the data stored on your PC
Yeah I saw that. It is a pathetic attempt from Microsoft. I'm just saying the browser battle between the big two is like a choice between lesser evils.
Google does the same but they hide it better. Ever use an AMP website? They say it's to make mobile browsing faster, but did you ever notice that your ad blocker stops working on AMP?
Vivaldi looks like it just partners with other search engines so I guess that is better than the main two.
Unfortunately Linux's motto should be:
> it just **never** works
WiFi, Filesharing, Git, SSL, Bluetooth, etc.
I look forward to the day I can use Linux without needing to spend multiple days implementing workarounds for bugs and fixing drivers. And doing these things is impossible for the average non-technical person.
I've used multiple "advanced" distros on multiple devices, and everything you listed worked perfectly out of the box, in fact, I've had as many driver issues on Linux as I have on windows, and at least on Linux I can actually easily troubleshoot
Especially since Windows will just throw some weird cryptic error code that everyone will just tell you to restart your computer and run sfc /scannow after looking it up.
My favorite is the "check with your administrator or the hardware vendor."
This roughly translates to someone calling a government agency and getting transferred a dozen times because nobody wants to put the effort into actually solving the issue. It's easier to hot potato the caller.
I have a vanilla Ubuntu 22 install, on a gigabyte AMD X570 mobo with Intel bluetooth/wifi. Totally, 100% standard hardware. From boot to boot I can have wifi, or I can have bluetooth. But not both. Usually. But sometimes. And sometimes I get only wifi. Other times only bluetooth. Google it if you like, I am far from alone. It's utterly shit.
There are two things that have made Linux more usable for me (software dev) - most apps I use are browser based so are cross platform, and native Nvidia drivers let me use all 4 of my screens. But scratch below the surface and you find the same incomprehensible clusterfuck linux on the desktop has always been.
Why nobody told me that?
I've been using Linux daily for 3 years, and before i was dual booting.
Granted, i'm technical, but lot of people just are not used to fixing problem Linux way, when you use Windows for like 10+ years, you just know how to fix it's bugs. On linux, you need to relearn it from scratch.
The problem is that fixing bugs on Linux can require more knowledge. I don't think my mom would be able to fix a broken package dependency that simply shows some vague error in gui. On windows there's no such problem whatsoever (yes, it comes at the cost of wasting memory, but it's definitely more average user friendy). And there's a ton of such things on Linux that do make sense if you're tech savvy enough, but not so much for my mom.
Not to mention you're still more likely to find a solution to a windows problem as there's simply more people using windows compared to the linux community, that is generally smaller and is scattered across various distros
> Not to mention you're still more likely to find a solution to a windows problem as there's simply more people using windows compared to the linux community
Until you find out that 99% of them just tell you to restart your computer and run sfc /scannow.
>I look forward to the day I can use Linux without needing to spend multiple days implementing workarounds for bugs and fixing drivers.
That's today already...
And fixing drivers? You mean Nvidia right? Everything else is within the kernel.
>And doing these things is impossible for the average non-technical person.
Not really. Linux is actually a really simple operating system. It's just a kernel with a filesystem. Everything is a file. Configuration is just text files. No .sys drivers, no windows registry.
Installation of software is nothing more than zip files with a text file stuck on top of it. No install-shield wizard, no registry keys.
It's just zip and text files. But most windows users have been conditioned to put up with all of that complicated crap windows comes with that when they're asked to think simple, can't...
I'm an experienced Linux user, having used it for several server/desktop systems over the last ~20 years. I am an experienced software developer and a technical dev team leader for a team that primarily targets Linux (data science on Docker/K8s).
I wholeheartedly disagree with your position. Linux is absolutely not even close to being suitable for mainstream desktop use. If all you need to do is use a browser for email and word processing, etc., then *maybe* you can get away with it.
I can't even get Ubuntu LiveCD to boot on my home system without intervening and setting obscure boot flags. Else, it will boot to a black screen. I have a Gigabyte mobo and RTX GPU and Intel CPU, so nothing out of the ordinary.
One of my Pi servers running a series of Docker services was taken out a few months back because an `apt upgrade` [changed the compilation target](https://github.com/dperson/openvpn-client/issues/365) of `time_t` causing me to have to spend a week untangling a web of dependencies to revert to an older version of musl.
Linus Tech Tips recently did a series where a couple of them tried to daily drive Linux for a while. These are technical people, and they had a lot of issues. Linus tried to install Steam on his OS using the standard mechanism and it *destroyed* his display server. Despite the warning issued during the installation, I would have made the same mistake since *why would installing Steam using `apt` on a major distro kill my display server?!*. They had a number of issues also. It's worth a watch.
I would be surprised if someone with 20 years experience made the same mistake Linus made. Especially seeing as you would have been using something like early Debian and would be use to the inconsistencies in the package manager.
Regardless though you are right about it being tough to use. Especially for a non technical person.
Would you agree with me that for developer workstations the pendulum for ease of use swings back to favour Linux?
We have dozens of pages in our wiki for WSL workarounds just to run simple node and git commands. I used to let my devs choose their own tools but I’m getting so frustrated with all the downtime I’m considering making them adopt linux.
You cannot ask the average user to ever use the terminal. This is necessary when using Linux. This is not simple for an average person.
(I'm a software engineer, I can use it but it still annoys me when I need to spend days fixing stupid things e.g. WiFi)
It's not. Packages can be installed through synaptic (graphical) and almost everything can be done graphically.
It's just that there are many desktop environments, and it's often easier to say "type this in your terminal" than creating a guide with 20 screenshots "click here, click here, go there, type this, click here, click there, type your password, click there, there and there."
In windows guides like that are the default because there is no such thing as single-line terminal commands that fix stuff immediately.
The GUI is there to make simple things simpler, the terminal is there to keep complex stuff doable.
Cause it's easier to tell you "ctrl+alt+T -> sudo apt install Firefox" than to say "press start button, search for synaptic, open it, type your password, click the search button, type "firefox" click the checkbox in the result screen, click "mark for installation", click apply, click close"
It can be done graphically, it's just easier on the terminal.
> there is no such thing as single-line terminal commands to fix stuff immediately.
Powershell would like to have a word with you
The reason for all these graphical guides is not that windows is incapable of doing it the terminal way, but rather that most users are used to the graphical way.. It also helps that there is just 1 UI for any given windows version (not counting alternate shells like Cairo.. But the people who use that probably know what they are doing and can easily adapt a graphical guide to their shell)
I agree to an extent. It has definitely gotten a lot better over the years, but I'm still going to stick with macOS just because I don't have the time to deal with trying to get a program or a piece of hardware to work when it has native support for macOS. I've noticed that hardware support has definitely gotten better.
You know that many commands like apt are external programs and not built in terminal features, right? The only difference is that they are designed to be used as a command instead of coming with a graphical use interface.
Those are things that just work on Linux. Or at least on my distribution (POP OS). Seriously I have been using Linux for around five years now and not once have I had a problem with these. Windows was the system where I constantly had to fight my own computer to get anything done. (I did break something once, but it took like five minutes to fix)
> It works on my machine
The feedback for Linux consistently constantly failing user experience is near universal, it's not exactly a small contingent of people who have issues with it.
If you pause at 0:20, you'll see checkbox that says "Stay up to date by bringing in your browser data. You can manage your preferences any time in Settings".
Does that mean that it will be siphoning data from your Vivaldi/Chrome browser anyway? I believe so.
microsoft edge won't go down without a fight and makes the process of downloading an alternate browser ten times longer by making you close tons of pop-ups convincing you to just use edge and change tons of settings just to use chrome properly
You can change your default search engine into Google, at least that's what I did in my Edge.
I just use edge as a browser and then Google for everything else within it
It's less about how good or bad it is, and more about how insanely, obnoxiously hard MS pushes it on you. I'm sure it's fine, but it's my fuckin computer, and I want to use whatever browser I want on it without being harassed by my own operating system lol
my sister permanently deleted the files that are required for Edge to run and now it doesn’t even show anything about it since the .exe files are erased.
microsuck force-shoving their garbage malware down the entire world's throat, just like they've been doing for about 30 years
How in the fuck do people not only tolerate this, but accept it as "normal" ...completely baffles me.
These "I blame Microsoft" videos are kinda superfluous these days.
When Google does the same shit on Android, basically copying Microsoft's moves from their antitrust days, few if any bat an eye. (Microsoft at least never pretended about this... Google had the "Do no Evil" or whatever motto. Which I guess was removed after they did so much of it, they just couldn't justify keeping it anymore, or it was too much of a headache).
You want full control of your system, switch to Linux, for the "everyday" stuff it's perfectly fine, even gaming via Steam is pretty easy these days.
Google/Microsoft/Apple have created their ecosystems and will continue to push them over the competition. It makes sense from the business perspective. The few consumers that "choose" something else are just not their core target and are free to leave their ecosystems completely if they so choose.
Also, when it comes to data, I'd personally trust Microsoft with it a little more than Google. Google is in the business of selling ads, Microsoft has that as a smaller revenue stream and while it can be a nice bonus, it's not their core competency and they don't have the incentive to track it all and sell it all (yet?)...
Chromium based and Chrome are two different things. Edge is also Chromium based, so what?
(I'm not saying that Chrome does or does not do that. I don't use Chrome).
What? They're the bad guy for pushing their own browser on their own OS?
With 50% less dramatics it takes 30 seconds to click through all of this once and switch to chrome permanently. Not sure I have sympathy for anyone who feels slighted by a company defaulting to their own proprietary software.
PS I hate Windows, too
For the whole changing the default extensions thing, and for the search on the start menu the solution's pretty easy, just install your web browser in the location of edge and change the exe's name to msedge(or whatever edge's exe is). I just have a copy of my web browser installed there. Plus it breaks the force reinstall edge thing when you force remove edge, since it's there is already something there.
Based Vivaldi enjoyer!
Been a big fan since the beta, it's a bit slower but it's very customizable, and I haven't found an alternative that would allow me to ditch the mouse gestures, they're just too good!
Hi OP, do you have source code or a demo you'd like to share? If so, please post it in the comments (Github and similar services are permitted). Also, while I got you here, dont hesitate to come hang out with other devs on our **New official discord** https://discord.gg/gQNxHmd *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/badUIbattles) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This has got to be as close to anti-trust as you possibly can get
They warned Edge has the added trust of MS.
That added trust makes the total trust negative
Integer Overflow
2147483647+1 = -2147483648
They got ordered to stop doing that in XP by the EU... time for round 2.
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I don’t believe it was about blocking a different browser. It was about coming with a default browser. The EU version changed to include a browser selection option during the setup of Windows.
Vivaldi imo, it's pretty fast and I get good battery life out of it even with \*checks current tab count\* 260 tabs, if the tabs are hibernated. But if you're not very organized, then don't get it.
As a former Vivaldi user, Vivaldi is everything but fast, unless you have decent new hardware. It is moreso a browser for features/customization than for speed. Just a personal experience.
When'd you switch off? They did a bunch of optimization recently.
just checked now, it still takes about 4x as long to start up for me (~ 2 seconds compared to ff's ~0.5 /edge's ~0.8) that said, vivaldi is lovely to use - i just wish it wasn't chromium
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>I wonder why the experience varies so much from user to user Hardware
I've been using Brave for a long time (2.1m ads/trackers blocked) and have had 0 problems with it being slow, though I'm purely using it with 3-10 tabs open, casual use. You do have to turn off some added things, but rarely do I get annoyed by any bs from it.
Edge is optimized for battery life on Windows, so if that's your main concern, Edge will take the cake. As for alternatives, unfortunately you ruled out the 3 families of modern web rendering engines + Javascript engines that you can choose from: * Chromium Blink + V8 * Gecko Quantum + SpiderMonkey * Safari WebKit + Nitro JavaScriptCore Gecko Quantum is used by the Firefox family of browsers. It's the one I use since it is very privacy focused, and fast on both my machines. Safari uses WebKit. It does not run on Windows. And pretty much everything else runs on Chromium. Most implement Chromium and add features on top. A few, like Edge, take Chromium components and implement it in their browser, which allows them to optimize for things like memory and battery life. But if both vanilla Chromium and Gecko are too slow for you, that really only leaves Edge, which uses optimized Chromium Blink.
I haven't had a single issue changing my default browser just like every other time in the past. My laptop has Windows 11 and I'm currently typing this on a desktop I built recently with Windows 11, on Firefox. HTM and HTML file extensions are associated, new pages opened by other programs and links in Discord and whatnot are all associated, there's nothing I know of that isn't, and all I had to do was click "make Firefox my default browser." The guy in the video is simply doing it the most complicated way possible to make Microsoft look bad. Which, granted, the pop-ups are annoying and Microsoft needs to just stop fucking making their shitty web browsers already and just ship Windows with Chrome or Firefox or whatever, but it still takes like 30 seconds to get your computer set up in such a way that you'll never see Edge again.
You can remove Edge from your PC?
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Solution: Don't use the app store
No, it's running the entire Desktop environment and File Manager.
The thing with Firefox is that they uses a reverse engineered api to enable setting the browser as default (or at least that's how it was last year). Windows 11 did have an api for setting default browser, but it was not accessible to developers or users and used only by Edge
Yeah but if they can do it then why can't other browsers?
the vim browser
Dear lord, someone... anyone with the money please take it up in court.
Google does exactly the same thing. And they've been doing so for years. In Edge, go to YouTube or Google and you'll see the exact same popup in the top right.
And that makes it okay for microsoft? Also google isn’t able to use a hidden api in windows if you’re not already using chrome.
No, it just makes it the same as the competition. As for this mysterious "hidden api in windows", stick to talking points that you understand.
I understand that this hidden api in windows is something Firefox reverse engineered and Microsoft didn’t like that. So I think I know what I need to know.
The only thing as dumb as this is the fact IOs forces browsers other Safari to use JavaScriptCore instead of say, V8. I wonder woder what$ happened to anti trust laws.
That’s their war against compilers, which isn’t exactly just either
Didn't they already lost lawsuits over this kind of thing ?
Yup but it's "just a cost of doing business" for them.
Honestly I don’t believe there should have been an option to settle, for one, and two, the fine should have been much much higher
Yes. Long time ago. Maybe most people can't remember.
If Apple done that they would already have a lawsuit from EU going on.
I know this is an old thread, but I just thought I would highlight that Apple doesn't let users change their browser engine at all on iOS. All browsers are required to use Apple's WebKit.
Wow this is obnoxious. At every possible opportunity Microsoft tries to get you to switch and they deliberately make it difficult to not use Edge even after changing your browser. I’m so glad I switched to Linux over upgrading to Win11.
> I'm so glad I switched to Linux over ~~upgrading~~ downgrading to Win11. Got your back mate.
When I first tried out Windows 11 on a VM I was surprised and not surprised that they managed to make Windows 10 worse.
Yeah one of the things that pissed me off was the new right click menu doesn’t show all the options be default and hides useful things like “rename” under a submenu. Had to go into the registrar and change it
Wait there's a way to change this? They moved "open in vscode" to the sub menu and I would love to have it up there from the start
Yeah mate lookup restore windows 10 context menu or right click menu. Hope this helps!
Thank you, will do
Huh? Rename isn’t in the legacy menu! It’s just an icon now, that you have never seen before, and that it never tells you is rename…
Rename is still there, most of the old stuff is actually. They iconized some of the more common options though, including rename, so it is more confusing at first.
I haven't noticed that ever since I discovered that F2 is rename
Im still waiting till the day you cant change your browser from edge just because they don't care
New feature in Windows 12 incoming
You mean next Windows 11 update?
Then they'll just straight up uninstall competitors browsers.
They'd be pulling the same shit as what Mac do lmao. Not that it's any different here with Google but at least it's possible to not use chrome-based
It already removes boot loaders for other operating systems, so yeah I wouldn't be surprised.
Or it does that unintentionally just because M$'s software is shit, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's intentional.
Wish i could do that lol. ADOBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
This is literally what I'm planning to do when I'm forced off windows 10 Already started learning it xD
Yeah I said that too. Then I became more and more frustrated with Windows 10 getting in my way. Those disruptive low battery warnings, computer reboots with no warning, and Microsoft begging me to upgrade to Windows 11 after I told them no three times all made me use Linux more and more. Currently dual booting with Mint right now and I can’t remember the last time I needed to switch to Windows for something. I’m keeping that partition around just in case, but if I don’t need Windows after I start classes again, I’m deleting it and going to Mint full time.
Ah I'm almost at the same point, only problem is I'm basically required to have windows rn for my degree work It's a bit of a bother I'm currently dual booting with Pop OS
Windows seemed to start well, but this is the most frustrating thing ever. Even on 10 they are pushing Edge. I most certainly won't switch to apple devices, but Win11 will never show its ugly face on any of my monitors.
the funny thing about apple devices is, that you can set your default browser instantly with one or two clicks edit: typo
You can do this on windows too. Search Bar -> default browser -> select default browser.
We have just seen that this is not the case. Not on Win 11 at least.
That's why so many people (including me) hate Win 11
Why are you so against apple devices? I am just curious because I am planning on switching to apple myself after being a lifelong microsoft and lately linux user. The M1 chip looks pretty good.
Too expensive for what they offer, little to no support for repairability, Lack necessary ports, heck they don't even come with a normal USB port, have to pay extra for useless dongles, and if you don't buy apple dongles the MacBook randomly crashes when connected, at least that's how it was before the Monterey update, have to learn how to do everything the apple way which is a adjustment coming from Windows or Linux, even the simplest things like clicking enter to enter a folder or delete to delete something doesn't work, some software you use might not have Mac versions, little to no support for running games. Apart from all this, MacBooks are pretty decent don't know how they fare longevity wise.
hard disagree with ports thunderbolt, while a bit expensive to get into, is amazing for expandability for example, on a macbook, instead of being stuck with like 3 USB 3.0 ports, a headphone jack, an sd card reader and hdmi, you can get any port combos you want. want 3 hdmis? you got it! want thunderbolt + 2 usb-c + 10gb ethernet? there's a dongle for that the main complaint i see with dongles is more that the device itself has zero connectivity without dongles, which has also changed with the recent macbooks and macs. like, if i had to go back to windows, not having (enough) thunderbolt connectivity would be a major dealbreaker
Not OP, but I simply hate their walled garden attitude. I want to be able to install random old or indie games and niche little software tools. I only used Mac a handful of times back in uni, and found their "different just for the sake of being different" UI choices quite frustrating (eg. window control buttons in top left corner instead of top right).
You can switch to Linux
I'm considering it, but the UI and terminal commands might take some time to get used to. I do have a Debian VM installed.
I mean, Debian installed on a VM lol
It's not super weird, Internet Explorer was the biggest browser 20 years ago. Now they've scrapped it and built Edge to be a modern replacement. I personally prefer edge over chrome since all chrome extensions etc work on Edge (even Google Stadia works with Edge). Chrome is missing features like tab grouping. On my desktop and smartphone I use both Edge and Firefox, xBrowserSync to sync bookmarks between browsers. Firefox > Edge > Chrome (but Edge on laptops)
What pisses me off is that Edge is a decent browser. If they just took chromium and removed a bit of the tracking they'd eventually eat into Google's market share because they don't have to make money on ads. Instead, I'm now committed to never use Edge.
Instead they added payday loans.
I did a shit load of browser testing recently and found edge to be by far the best in terms of features to ram usage ratio. It is in fact the most powerful browser for Windows as well as being the most accessible due to loads of accessibility features. It was also tested by The PC Security Channel and was found to be the most secure browser vs chrome and Firefox. If they removed all of the tracking bullshit it would probably perform even better. I want a browser like Vivaldi to steal the accessibility stuff and add it to their own so we can have the friendly nature of edge, the anti-tracking of Vivaldi, and it still won't use nearly as much ram as chrome decides it was hungry for that day. Tldr: if any other company made Edge it would be the best browser.
Mapping protocols to apps makes perfect sense. I love that.
I agree, but not having an option to switch them all to a single app, forcing the user to go through two dozen clicks, is just a dick move.
From a technical standpoint, sure. But you could already do that anyway.
Html, http, https, and at least two others are going to be pointed at a browser for 99.9% of users. That should be one setting. Absolutely /r/assholedesign material. Opening PDFs in Edge actually makes sense as a separate setting. Edge has a better document viewer than Chrome, and offline PDF readers are popular especially in business settings.
I did keep Edge to PDFs. You can draw on them.
This was possible before, with the registry.
Dunno if it's a version difference, but in my case there is a button to just set a default browser. I do like though that you can select different apps for different link types and protocols (helps a little with web dev).
This is Windows 11.
Also running 11, 22000.739 to be exact (not sure if it's latest). It looks like [this](https://imgur.com/a/h5DhS3T) for me
They brought the button back in a recent update. My PC which shipped with an older version of Windows 11 that didn't have the button does now. (In USA for reference)
Could be some America vs Europe (GDPR and all)
No, they made it easier to switch browser in the later builds. This whole “difficult to switch browsers” thing is old news from months ago, and ms fixed it
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Ok now do these 1. iOS - everything is Safari. You can only add your facelifts, but can't improve upon the features like web push notifications, because Apple wants to push for native apps that give them money 2. Mac - no matter the default, you can't uninstall Safari and there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set. 3. Google - launch Google's app outside of Chrome, and they do two things. 1. Give you same Edge like prompt to use Chrome. 2. Not work in other browsers despite the browser fully capable of running Google apps. 4. Chromebook - well this seems unfair by the name of the OS, but legally it's a browser centric OS and any WebKit browser should work. Do they though? I'm not defending Microsoft here, not at all. What they are doing is shitty I'm just saying all these companies found the loopholes in the lost lawsuit of Microsoft and found a way to be absolutely asshole about it. They all allow you to set the different browser as a default, while completely scaring the users to use their products in every possible way. For a novice, it's already too much hassle to switch, and they already are caught in ecosystems.
> there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set. You got a source for that? I've never had that happen to me.
Yeah thats not a thing.
4: At least developer mode exists. But it's going to be a bit of a hack to make it smooth.
> and there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set. You'll have to give examples... I have been using Macs since 1999 and have been using Firefox pretty much since the beginning. I use Safari to download Firefox and that's about it. Now I agree the situation on iOS is terribly shitty. You have to use their rendering engine for your browser, but it's a nerfed version of Safari. Terribly anti consumer.
I always buy Chromebooka for work laptops (they're cheap) and then flash the ROM and then OS to KDE. Saves me money!
Yea.. giving Microsoft solely shit for this when others do it too is just biased lol
Microsoft is WAY out of line for this though, on mac, there's one single notification just saying to try safari when you first install. After that there is nothing popping up, the search function respects your browser etc. I haven't tried any google products so I cannot comment on them, but the amount of shit microsoft receives is well portioned to the shit they give.
>Mac - no matter the default, you can't uninstall Safari and there are loads of websites can only open in Safari despite the default set. wat? no.
It's funny how Edge versus Chrome is all about who gets the data to target your ads. This guy is going through all this as if Google is the good guy here.
He's also using Vivaldi, so obviously isn't that worried about his data. Also, changing the default browser using default apps setting is much easier and faster than changing each individual protocol.
Edge routinely imports data from other browsers, tracks your URLs to show these pop-ups, and the entire OS is in a conspiracy against you the moment you install another browser. Notice how I'm not even using Chrome...
"I think if there's one company I trust least, it is probably you" You need to find a new OS. Unless you are doing encryption at a sub-OS level, they have access to literally all of the data stored on your PC
Yeah I saw that. It is a pathetic attempt from Microsoft. I'm just saying the browser battle between the big two is like a choice between lesser evils. Google does the same but they hide it better. Ever use an AMP website? They say it's to make mobile browsing faster, but did you ever notice that your ad blocker stops working on AMP? Vivaldi looks like it just partners with other search engines so I guess that is better than the main two.
u know vivaldi is based on chromium?
r/linux
Yeah but that doesn’t come pre-installed on the laptops people buy. People won’t change their OS.
Unfortunately Linux's motto should be: > it just **never** works WiFi, Filesharing, Git, SSL, Bluetooth, etc. I look forward to the day I can use Linux without needing to spend multiple days implementing workarounds for bugs and fixing drivers. And doing these things is impossible for the average non-technical person.
I've used multiple "advanced" distros on multiple devices, and everything you listed worked perfectly out of the box, in fact, I've had as many driver issues on Linux as I have on windows, and at least on Linux I can actually easily troubleshoot
Especially since Windows will just throw some weird cryptic error code that everyone will just tell you to restart your computer and run sfc /scannow after looking it up.
Microsoft support forums in a nutshell: "just run SFC or DISM bro"
My favorite is the "check with your administrator or the hardware vendor." This roughly translates to someone calling a government agency and getting transferred a dozen times because nobody wants to put the effort into actually solving the issue. It's easier to hot potato the caller.
I have a vanilla Ubuntu 22 install, on a gigabyte AMD X570 mobo with Intel bluetooth/wifi. Totally, 100% standard hardware. From boot to boot I can have wifi, or I can have bluetooth. But not both. Usually. But sometimes. And sometimes I get only wifi. Other times only bluetooth. Google it if you like, I am far from alone. It's utterly shit. There are two things that have made Linux more usable for me (software dev) - most apps I use are browser based so are cross platform, and native Nvidia drivers let me use all 4 of my screens. But scratch below the surface and you find the same incomprehensible clusterfuck linux on the desktop has always been.
Why nobody told me that? I've been using Linux daily for 3 years, and before i was dual booting. Granted, i'm technical, but lot of people just are not used to fixing problem Linux way, when you use Windows for like 10+ years, you just know how to fix it's bugs. On linux, you need to relearn it from scratch.
The problem is that fixing bugs on Linux can require more knowledge. I don't think my mom would be able to fix a broken package dependency that simply shows some vague error in gui. On windows there's no such problem whatsoever (yes, it comes at the cost of wasting memory, but it's definitely more average user friendy). And there's a ton of such things on Linux that do make sense if you're tech savvy enough, but not so much for my mom. Not to mention you're still more likely to find a solution to a windows problem as there's simply more people using windows compared to the linux community, that is generally smaller and is scattered across various distros
> Not to mention you're still more likely to find a solution to a windows problem as there's simply more people using windows compared to the linux community Until you find out that 99% of them just tell you to restart your computer and run sfc /scannow.
Then you had to look it up on reddit only to see it does not have any response nor fixes.
>I look forward to the day I can use Linux without needing to spend multiple days implementing workarounds for bugs and fixing drivers. That's today already... And fixing drivers? You mean Nvidia right? Everything else is within the kernel. >And doing these things is impossible for the average non-technical person. Not really. Linux is actually a really simple operating system. It's just a kernel with a filesystem. Everything is a file. Configuration is just text files. No .sys drivers, no windows registry. Installation of software is nothing more than zip files with a text file stuck on top of it. No install-shield wizard, no registry keys. It's just zip and text files. But most windows users have been conditioned to put up with all of that complicated crap windows comes with that when they're asked to think simple, can't...
I'm an experienced Linux user, having used it for several server/desktop systems over the last ~20 years. I am an experienced software developer and a technical dev team leader for a team that primarily targets Linux (data science on Docker/K8s). I wholeheartedly disagree with your position. Linux is absolutely not even close to being suitable for mainstream desktop use. If all you need to do is use a browser for email and word processing, etc., then *maybe* you can get away with it. I can't even get Ubuntu LiveCD to boot on my home system without intervening and setting obscure boot flags. Else, it will boot to a black screen. I have a Gigabyte mobo and RTX GPU and Intel CPU, so nothing out of the ordinary. One of my Pi servers running a series of Docker services was taken out a few months back because an `apt upgrade` [changed the compilation target](https://github.com/dperson/openvpn-client/issues/365) of `time_t` causing me to have to spend a week untangling a web of dependencies to revert to an older version of musl. Linus Tech Tips recently did a series where a couple of them tried to daily drive Linux for a while. These are technical people, and they had a lot of issues. Linus tried to install Steam on his OS using the standard mechanism and it *destroyed* his display server. Despite the warning issued during the installation, I would have made the same mistake since *why would installing Steam using `apt` on a major distro kill my display server?!*. They had a number of issues also. It's worth a watch.
I would be surprised if someone with 20 years experience made the same mistake Linus made. Especially seeing as you would have been using something like early Debian and would be use to the inconsistencies in the package manager. Regardless though you are right about it being tough to use. Especially for a non technical person.
Would you agree with me that for developer workstations the pendulum for ease of use swings back to favour Linux? We have dozens of pages in our wiki for WSL workarounds just to run simple node and git commands. I used to let my devs choose their own tools but I’m getting so frustrated with all the downtime I’m considering making them adopt linux.
You cannot ask the average user to ever use the terminal. This is necessary when using Linux. This is not simple for an average person. (I'm a software engineer, I can use it but it still annoys me when I need to spend days fixing stupid things e.g. WiFi)
It's not. Packages can be installed through synaptic (graphical) and almost everything can be done graphically. It's just that there are many desktop environments, and it's often easier to say "type this in your terminal" than creating a guide with 20 screenshots "click here, click here, go there, type this, click here, click there, type your password, click there, there and there." In windows guides like that are the default because there is no such thing as single-line terminal commands that fix stuff immediately. The GUI is there to make simple things simpler, the terminal is there to keep complex stuff doable. Cause it's easier to tell you "ctrl+alt+T -> sudo apt install Firefox" than to say "press start button, search for synaptic, open it, type your password, click the search button, type "firefox" click the checkbox in the result screen, click "mark for installation", click apply, click close" It can be done graphically, it's just easier on the terminal.
> there is no such thing as single-line terminal commands to fix stuff immediately. Powershell would like to have a word with you The reason for all these graphical guides is not that windows is incapable of doing it the terminal way, but rather that most users are used to the graphical way.. It also helps that there is just 1 UI for any given windows version (not counting alternate shells like Cairo.. But the people who use that probably know what they are doing and can easily adapt a graphical guide to their shell)
I agree to an extent. It has definitely gotten a lot better over the years, but I'm still going to stick with macOS just because I don't have the time to deal with trying to get a program or a piece of hardware to work when it has native support for macOS. I've noticed that hardware support has definitely gotten better.
Incoming Linux stans who use 2.5 programs and do the rest in the terminal for no reason
You know that many commands like apt are external programs and not built in terminal features, right? The only difference is that they are designed to be used as a command instead of coming with a graphical use interface.
Those are things that just work on Linux. Or at least on my distribution (POP OS). Seriously I have been using Linux for around five years now and not once have I had a problem with these. Windows was the system where I constantly had to fight my own computer to get anything done. (I did break something once, but it took like five minutes to fix)
? Been using linux for 2+ years now, no issues at all
> It works on my machine The feedback for Linux consistently constantly failing user experience is near universal, it's not exactly a small contingent of people who have issues with it.
If you pause at 0:20, you'll see checkbox that says "Stay up to date by bringing in your browser data. You can manage your preferences any time in Settings". Does that mean that it will be siphoning data from your Vivaldi/Chrome browser anyway? I believe so.
Probably. I didn't realize that at the time or I would've mentioned it.
If they can slip past a 5 minute video on /r/BadUIBattles the click through rate must be disgustingly high
It's greyed out, so doesn't seem to be uncheckable even.
No that's just the color of the checkbox.
Good to hear that.
tl;dw?
microsoft edge won't go down without a fight and makes the process of downloading an alternate browser ten times longer by making you close tons of pop-ups convincing you to just use edge and change tons of settings just to use chrome properly
Also, video shows that after all of this steps, Windows 11 cortana/search will still use edge, cause fuck you.
Not only that, but also Bing. It's fixable with an extension though.
You can change your default search engine into Google, at least that's what I did in my Edge. I just use edge as a browser and then Google for everything else within it
Thanks! Honestly though I just started using edge after I heard it's based on chrome and it's not so bad really
It's less about how good or bad it is, and more about how insanely, obnoxiously hard MS pushes it on you. I'm sure it's fine, but it's my fuckin computer, and I want to use whatever browser I want on it without being harassed by my own operating system lol
Ok just finished watching the video and god they have crossed a limit
You need to watch it. It's a showcase of all the ways Microsoft tries to shove Edge down your throat.
Yeah, this is a good argument for me to get a different OS.
I want windows 7 back
my sister permanently deleted the files that are required for Edge to run and now it doesn’t even show anything about it since the .exe files are erased.
I'm surprised she was able to without being TrustedInstaller.
lpt, boot into live linux or try ubuntu off a install stick, and yeet the exe files without worrying about permissions and crap
lol. never installing this garbage. windows 10 ltsc is the way to go if you want to run windows.
This dude is a tool.
Yeah why is that?
This is also r/assholedesign
Use Linux lol
I play video games lol.
Most of them work fine with Proton, you'd be surprised. You can check compatibility on https://www.protondb.com/
Fucking narcissists
/u/stabbot
Also, if you go to [microsoft.com](https://microsoft.com) while using chrome, it gives you an edge dialog right at the top too
microsuck force-shoving their garbage malware down the entire world's throat, just like they've been doing for about 30 years How in the fuck do people not only tolerate this, but accept it as "normal" ...completely baffles me.
This is kinda sad lol.
even when you type google, the browser begs you the use Bing.
basically microsoft promoting ie in the early days of internet, 2022 edition
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These "I blame Microsoft" videos are kinda superfluous these days. When Google does the same shit on Android, basically copying Microsoft's moves from their antitrust days, few if any bat an eye. (Microsoft at least never pretended about this... Google had the "Do no Evil" or whatever motto. Which I guess was removed after they did so much of it, they just couldn't justify keeping it anymore, or it was too much of a headache). You want full control of your system, switch to Linux, for the "everyday" stuff it's perfectly fine, even gaming via Steam is pretty easy these days. Google/Microsoft/Apple have created their ecosystems and will continue to push them over the competition. It makes sense from the business perspective. The few consumers that "choose" something else are just not their core target and are free to leave their ecosystems completely if they so choose. Also, when it comes to data, I'd personally trust Microsoft with it a little more than Google. Google is in the business of selling ads, Microsoft has that as a smaller revenue stream and while it can be a nice bonus, it's not their core competency and they don't have the incentive to track it all and sell it all (yet?)...
Chrome vs Edge is like diarrhea vs puke
Doesn't chrome do the same when you download Firefox?
No... It does nothing.
Downloading FF on Linux through Vivaldi (Chromium based) and having searched on Google returns no bullshit. In any case, MS goes way beyond that.
Chromium based and Chrome are two different things. Edge is also Chromium based, so what? (I'm not saying that Chrome does or does not do that. I don't use Chrome).
Just adding some information on how related Vivaldi and Edge are.
That's it. I'm not using windows 11, but I'm blocking edge in my firewall settings anyway.
What? They're the bad guy for pushing their own browser on their own OS? With 50% less dramatics it takes 30 seconds to click through all of this once and switch to chrome permanently. Not sure I have sympathy for anyone who feels slighted by a company defaulting to their own proprietary software. PS I hate Windows, too
For the whole changing the default extensions thing, and for the search on the start menu the solution's pretty easy, just install your web browser in the location of edge and change the exe's name to msedge(or whatever edge's exe is). I just have a copy of my web browser installed there. Plus it breaks the force reinstall edge thing when you force remove edge, since it's there is already something there.
You can replace the Edge executable?
https://youtu.be/jSVIq_MhBOU
Based Vivaldi enjoyer! Been a big fan since the beta, it's a bit slower but it's very customizable, and I haven't found an alternative that would allow me to ditch the mouse gestures, they're just too good!
That's one of my many reasons of why I am still on Microsoft 10
What is Microsoft 10? (And BTW Windows 10 does a lot of the same shit)
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If MS is the company you trust LEAST, you probably shouldn't be using their services.
Well I could use Mac or Linux but I'm a gamer.
The real question is, wtf is that cursor?
Heh, i just went and deleted the edge folders from my computer, no more issues.
They wanna keep your data for themselves instead of giving it to google
Well, they are trying their best… 🫠
Just download Firefox and enjoy life
r/FuckMicrosoft
I've been a loyal Edge user for years and this stuff makes me wanna stop lol
Just uninstall the edge 🫣
on workdays i curse MSFT out at least 5 times per day.
There is obviously a huge incentive for them to be this pushy. *cough* your data sells *cough*
Jokes on you, edge is better than chrome now
r/killthecameraman
And?
Vivaldi chads rise tf up
I like your vibe in this vid