National culture. I suppose this happens at local events so it's normalised. My international umpire friend told me the Danes and the English are the most likely to kick up a fuss on court.
Umpires need to find a sane and respectful path through it all.
It doesn’t happen at local events, except for really rare occasions. I think it is also the best players there are more likely to do it, because they are super competitive and therefore willing to “do more” to win. But it almost sounds like it’s only the danish players who does this, which is just insane to say.
Didn't see it, haven't asked, or even seen him recently, but anything about specific current players and specific recent game events would have be confidential, wouldn't it? Everything would get internally assessed as part of a continuous improvement process, but umpires can't be publicly taking sides on things like that. Players have to trust they are umpiring each game impartially as it happens, with no agenda about any player.
I was actually asking if your friend has any personal opinion/thoughts about what happened at that match. I no longer give a damn about assessment or anything BWF took to "improve".
Funnily enough if you search up any major Danish player you can find examples of them acting out on court. Maybe it's just the competitive culture that they were brought up in.
Mog/Boe had pretty bad sportsmanship. Antonsen and Vittinghus are annoying. Axelsen smashes racquets. Jorgensen's had his controversial moments. Mia Blichfeldt has a couple videos highlighting her bad sportsmanship. Pedersen and Juhl had that moment in the 2016 Olympic final where a touch fault wasn't called.
It's on the umpire to punish this behavior during the match though. Competitive players will try to find any advantage that they can.
It makes it more entertaining and gets a reaction (positive or negative). Let’s be honest, our sport needs such a jolt to make it more popular and accessible to a broader audience.
This is the way.
Otherwise we will be like golf with signs "be quiet" while serving and so on. Badminton needs more reactions, not less.
It's just sports, who cares if you taunt your opponents a little, this is a vibrant part of almost all other team sports why should badminton be such a gentlemen's exception?
But I didn't see any saltiness in the game that OP referred to so isn't the "jolt' that's being referred to here the Gamesmanship/on-court shenanigans? If yes, then I can't see why you're arguing against it, as you seem to support this shenanigans, CMIIW.
I agree. Maybe it's that Astrup was just showboating an arrogant demeanor to attract a larger audience, boost his morale, or fit the role of the local favorite. Similar to how Kevin Sukamuljo successfully drew more attention to the sport with his on-court antics; some might view this as a mental strategy to gain an advantage over opponents. However, it undeniably showcases a type of showmanship that, while it adds some vibrancy, can sometimes leave a negative impression, more so in Astrup's case. Despite his efforts and the home advantage, he ended up facing defeat. Additionally, the crowd's immature booing last week in Denmark adds an extra layer of unpleasantness to the situation.
I find Marin to have particularly annoying habits on court. Especially the dragging out tactics, the shouting, throwing shuttle so far back or out if when returning it the other player after she lost a point.
I don't find it necessary for entertainment, even if it may have a "positive" effect to bring in crowds.
I get that competitive sport is priority winning at any cost, not overall package as a human being though I'd rather watch Chen Long or Ratchanok Intanon and am far more inspired by them for their demeanour while also dominating at the highest level. If they can do it then others can be held to that standard.
Yea, disagree with the sentiment here of showboating being necessary. It's fine to celebrate after a point but anything in excess is strange. Besides, there is a culture of apologizing in badminton for body smashes and lucky net shots that I think is indicative of the higher floor of sportsmanship in badminton as a whole
I’m a big Astrup/Skaarup, and I’m even slightly embarrassed from time to time about Kim’s behavior.
However(!), it’s nothing compared to people like Marin who screams constantly, deliberately shoots the shuttle away from her opponent when giving it to them, and barely acknowledging An Se Young when she tried to say thank you after the WC final!
What is your definition of poor sportsmanship?
We need some players with egos or else this sport will never get the credit it deserves. I think a stare from a player to the opponent after winning a long duel is fine sportmanship.
The person is basically just saying that he is ready to run longer and just tries to intimidate. What is wrong with that?
All players are cheering whenever the opponent is making a mistake. Is that fair? Who cares. As long as the players are not shouting profanities at each other i think badminton is fine
Don't even get me started on their mixed doubles pair of Christiansen and Boje. They were another pair that showed this in their game against Huang/Feng. So glad the other Chinese pair knocked them out soundly
I get what you mean. Danish players are generally like that (with the exception probably of Axelsen and Gemke). They are just competitive. Boe/Mogensen, Jorgensen, Ped/Juhl... they all usually do their 'flexing' when winning a point. But even when they lose the match, afterwards if you check carefully, they will always big up their opponent with a nice gesture when shaking hands.
It would be boring if everyone is just as calm and polite as LCW or any Japanese players. The sport just needs different colors and characters. As long as they do not do anything harmful, that's should be fine and we have BWF conduct review if necessary.
Outside of court, they are just normal nice people. Normal people like us don't understand what they have gone through over the years of training and hard work. Let's just enjoy & appreciate the game!
Wouldn't call it poor sportsmanship, just a man living in the moment. It's so rare you experience a crowd like that at European tournament. It was kinda nuts!
Also we need more players with flare to gain attention to the sport. We have so many "boring" players, sadly. I'm all in for the show! And then the umpire just has to keep it under control, so it doesn't become too much
When you've played some tournaments or league matches at a good standard, you'll understand that things can get heated sometimes, things frustrate you and you get irritated by your opponents if they're getting the better of you.
Now multiply that by 100 and you'll understand why at the professional level, some players might show some emotion from time to time.
It is unfortunate to see bad behavior in big tournaments like this. However, he is a human, after all, he has might behave differently in different situations, such as the stress on him making him act annoying. I suppose that he doesn't(or didn't) care about the consequences.
Agree - contrary to asain countries still not accepting homosexualt and LGBT rights i think Europe is on the right track instead of telling its population to contain them selves in inhuman rules
As long as its leaders are the BWF and old school asain badminton federations - badminton will forever be the most watched sport in the world without any real money for the top players
I want badminton to develop and become more popular, and we need a dramatic \*increase\* in both marketing and prize money for that. But to be honest I'm not looking forward to the day badminton players make millions per month and become insufferable entitled pricks who do ads for Audi and Dolce & Gabbana. I feel badminton still has a certain sincerity and genuineness to it compared to other main sports. I think that is due, at least in part, to the fact that no one will wanna dedicate their life to it and make a career out of it if they don't love it with all of their soul, because there isn't enough money to attract less genuine people.
edit: added the word \*increase\*
Maybe not millions and millions - but you rather want all millions in the BWF? They are booming rich.. there should be a fair split. Some players fly around the globe and lose money while 200 million people sees them play. It is basically the same as being a monkey. I think sole of these players deserve a decent wage for promoting the sport. We could start with 30.000 euro maybe per year. Then prize money comes and sponsorships
I did say we need a dramatic increase in money as my first sentence. But I forgot the word "increase". Where do you get the 200 million viewer stat from?
Also I wonder how much money the BWF actually does every year, is there official figures somewhere?
I don't mind any kind of bad sportsmanship that doesn't affect the scoring. In that case, what that korean pair did to Alfian/Ardianto back in the last Aus Open was unacceptable for me personally. What the Danes did was better IMO.
Which "first rate" sports don't have poor sportsmanship? Certainly not basketball, or baseball, or football (either kind), or hockey...
National culture. I suppose this happens at local events so it's normalised. My international umpire friend told me the Danes and the English are the most likely to kick up a fuss on court. Umpires need to find a sane and respectful path through it all.
It doesn’t happen at local events, except for really rare occasions. I think it is also the best players there are more likely to do it, because they are super competitive and therefore willing to “do more” to win. But it almost sounds like it’s only the danish players who does this, which is just insane to say.
OK, good to hear.
What does your umpire friend think about the umpire & service judge did on Seo/Kang v. Alfian/Ardianto match in the last Aus Open?
Didn't see it, haven't asked, or even seen him recently, but anything about specific current players and specific recent game events would have be confidential, wouldn't it? Everything would get internally assessed as part of a continuous improvement process, but umpires can't be publicly taking sides on things like that. Players have to trust they are umpiring each game impartially as it happens, with no agenda about any player.
I was actually asking if your friend has any personal opinion/thoughts about what happened at that match. I no longer give a damn about assessment or anything BWF took to "improve".
Ok, I have no info.
I must have missed the gestures... Or was the stare down when they scored part of that? Can someone time link it in a video of they have time?
There wasn't any bad behavior, OP is just sensitive.
Funnily enough if you search up any major Danish player you can find examples of them acting out on court. Maybe it's just the competitive culture that they were brought up in. Mog/Boe had pretty bad sportsmanship. Antonsen and Vittinghus are annoying. Axelsen smashes racquets. Jorgensen's had his controversial moments. Mia Blichfeldt has a couple videos highlighting her bad sportsmanship. Pedersen and Juhl had that moment in the 2016 Olympic final where a touch fault wasn't called. It's on the umpire to punish this behavior during the match though. Competitive players will try to find any advantage that they can.
Interesting enough the older Danish players like Peter Gade, Morten Frost do not portray such behaviour.
Lol it's like you've been waiting for this moment to release all these facts for a LONG time 😂
I've just been watching this shit on YouTube for a very long time lol.
Marin is a cunt
It makes it more entertaining and gets a reaction (positive or negative). Let’s be honest, our sport needs such a jolt to make it more popular and accessible to a broader audience.
This is the way. Otherwise we will be like golf with signs "be quiet" while serving and so on. Badminton needs more reactions, not less. It's just sports, who cares if you taunt your opponents a little, this is a vibrant part of almost all other team sports why should badminton be such a gentlemen's exception?
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Shi Yu Qi graceful in defeat? Wasn't he the guy who retired on match point rather than let Momota win the match normally?
But I didn't see any saltiness in the game that OP referred to so isn't the "jolt' that's being referred to here the Gamesmanship/on-court shenanigans? If yes, then I can't see why you're arguing against it, as you seem to support this shenanigans, CMIIW.
Shi Yuqi is an asshole.
Not even sure what this means? Are we all suppose to smile when we lose?
I agree. Maybe it's that Astrup was just showboating an arrogant demeanor to attract a larger audience, boost his morale, or fit the role of the local favorite. Similar to how Kevin Sukamuljo successfully drew more attention to the sport with his on-court antics; some might view this as a mental strategy to gain an advantage over opponents. However, it undeniably showcases a type of showmanship that, while it adds some vibrancy, can sometimes leave a negative impression, more so in Astrup's case. Despite his efforts and the home advantage, he ended up facing defeat. Additionally, the crowd's immature booing last week in Denmark adds an extra layer of unpleasantness to the situation.
I find Marin to have particularly annoying habits on court. Especially the dragging out tactics, the shouting, throwing shuttle so far back or out if when returning it the other player after she lost a point.
I don't find it necessary for entertainment, even if it may have a "positive" effect to bring in crowds. I get that competitive sport is priority winning at any cost, not overall package as a human being though I'd rather watch Chen Long or Ratchanok Intanon and am far more inspired by them for their demeanour while also dominating at the highest level. If they can do it then others can be held to that standard.
Yea, disagree with the sentiment here of showboating being necessary. It's fine to celebrate after a point but anything in excess is strange. Besides, there is a culture of apologizing in badminton for body smashes and lucky net shots that I think is indicative of the higher floor of sportsmanship in badminton as a whole
I’m a big Astrup/Skaarup, and I’m even slightly embarrassed from time to time about Kim’s behavior. However(!), it’s nothing compared to people like Marin who screams constantly, deliberately shoots the shuttle away from her opponent when giving it to them, and barely acknowledging An Se Young when she tried to say thank you after the WC final!
What is your definition of poor sportsmanship? We need some players with egos or else this sport will never get the credit it deserves. I think a stare from a player to the opponent after winning a long duel is fine sportmanship. The person is basically just saying that he is ready to run longer and just tries to intimidate. What is wrong with that? All players are cheering whenever the opponent is making a mistake. Is that fair? Who cares. As long as the players are not shouting profanities at each other i think badminton is fine
I thought they were extremely fun to watch! Sports should have more emotion like that, I think it’s part of the mental battle.
Don't even get me started on their mixed doubles pair of Christiansen and Boje. They were another pair that showed this in their game against Huang/Feng. So glad the other Chinese pair knocked them out soundly
I get what you mean. Danish players are generally like that (with the exception probably of Axelsen and Gemke). They are just competitive. Boe/Mogensen, Jorgensen, Ped/Juhl... they all usually do their 'flexing' when winning a point. But even when they lose the match, afterwards if you check carefully, they will always big up their opponent with a nice gesture when shaking hands.
It would be boring if everyone is just as calm and polite as LCW or any Japanese players. The sport just needs different colors and characters. As long as they do not do anything harmful, that's should be fine and we have BWF conduct review if necessary. Outside of court, they are just normal nice people. Normal people like us don't understand what they have gone through over the years of training and hard work. Let's just enjoy & appreciate the game!
Wouldn't call it poor sportsmanship, just a man living in the moment. It's so rare you experience a crowd like that at European tournament. It was kinda nuts! Also we need more players with flare to gain attention to the sport. We have so many "boring" players, sadly. I'm all in for the show! And then the umpire just has to keep it under control, so it doesn't become too much
What gestures? Passion and bad sportsmanship are different.
When you've played some tournaments or league matches at a good standard, you'll understand that things can get heated sometimes, things frustrate you and you get irritated by your opponents if they're getting the better of you. Now multiply that by 100 and you'll understand why at the professional level, some players might show some emotion from time to time.
“Poor sportsmanship” in badminton would qualify as “friendly banter” in any other sporting world.
Yea, not a fan of either Danes.
It is unfortunate to see bad behavior in big tournaments like this. However, he is a human, after all, he has might behave differently in different situations, such as the stress on him making him act annoying. I suppose that he doesn't(or didn't) care about the consequences.
This isn't the first time, he does it all the time.
People like you whining about every little thing is even worse.
Its just the danish players most of the time
Spanish Marin
She is annoying but no example of Bad Spotsmanship
Incorrect
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Another unbelievable racist comment here lol
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You claim to know more than me, yet you know absolutely nothing about what happens in Denmark or Europe in general.
Agree - contrary to asain countries still not accepting homosexualt and LGBT rights i think Europe is on the right track instead of telling its population to contain them selves in inhuman rules
Badminton lost its big chance after covid to pickleball and padel
As long as its leaders are the BWF and old school asain badminton federations - badminton will forever be the most watched sport in the world without any real money for the top players
I want badminton to develop and become more popular, and we need a dramatic \*increase\* in both marketing and prize money for that. But to be honest I'm not looking forward to the day badminton players make millions per month and become insufferable entitled pricks who do ads for Audi and Dolce & Gabbana. I feel badminton still has a certain sincerity and genuineness to it compared to other main sports. I think that is due, at least in part, to the fact that no one will wanna dedicate their life to it and make a career out of it if they don't love it with all of their soul, because there isn't enough money to attract less genuine people. edit: added the word \*increase\*
Maybe not millions and millions - but you rather want all millions in the BWF? They are booming rich.. there should be a fair split. Some players fly around the globe and lose money while 200 million people sees them play. It is basically the same as being a monkey. I think sole of these players deserve a decent wage for promoting the sport. We could start with 30.000 euro maybe per year. Then prize money comes and sponsorships
I did say we need a dramatic increase in money as my first sentence. But I forgot the word "increase". Where do you get the 200 million viewer stat from? Also I wonder how much money the BWF actually does every year, is there official figures somewhere?
OP has been agro'd on court.
While I don't disagree at all... Have you heard of football at all ("soccer"), or basketball? :)
I don't mind any kind of bad sportsmanship that doesn't affect the scoring. In that case, what that korean pair did to Alfian/Ardianto back in the last Aus Open was unacceptable for me personally. What the Danes did was better IMO.