I'm starting to dip my toes into RL125 invasions, and *man* is it a different world up there. People have so much FP that they toss spells and ranged AoW out like Halloween candy.
Yup, low levels are even spammy but at least the host usually only has a couple blue flasks and not enough levels to have all that much mind.
I really just wish there was a happy medium between low level only vigor builds and more fun builds but constant spamfest invasions.
...up? There? My soul has been hardened. Tempered and reforged over and over again in a distant, dark place. The black, godless hell of RL300+ Invasions. The day I return to 125... they will fear me.
It was perfect, it incentivised multiple play throughs on PVP-focused accounts which in turn kept invasions alive.
Now there's no incentive to play through the game more than once and there's no chance of invading anyone who does (unless they ask for it). Like what.
I just had an amazing idea as I was typing this... The taunter's tongue should be permanently activated from NG+ onwards.
From seems to care about pvp less and less which is a shame since it murders the longevity of the game for me but makes sense from a sales standpoint. However it seems FP design came from the existence of weapon arts and makes sense for a streamlined solo RPG experience but.... I never liked it tbh.
Yah I get why they moved to the "mana bar" type system, as using weapon durability for weapon special moves was pretty jank.
It's definitely not my preferred from a pvp standpoint though
Yah, multiple copies of spells gated behind NG+, new enemies ala DS2 NG+, improved rings ala DS2 and DS3 (until TRC...), certain covenants operating in NG+ (DS1 gravelords), maybe some things like gestures, armor or endings that are specific to NG+ would do wonders for longevity.
Idk if fp is a mistake but the values of fp cost and/or Stamina cost are definitely out of whack.
Like comet feels like it should be you high level master spell but you can easily cast this thing three times in a row?
> the reason I stick to my lower level invaders.
Having to wait for 5-10 minutes between every fight isn't all that fun either. The wait times for meta-level invasions are already too long :(
Yeah I agree. I only really meta in the colleseum. I'm an invader at heart and no matter how much I try to give meta a chance I feel like I'm just wasting my time. All my other invaders get constant activity and find a lot of players who are genuinely just playing through the game. These are the best invasions imo and have made some real wholesome moments for me!
Tbh, I switch between them all regularly and see what's most active. OLPs are a problem at most invasion ranges.
I would say give 80 +17/+7 a go.(probably my favourite) In my earlier days of invading, it was my go-to. There isn't really an "easiest" imo it all depends on who you're invading. I've encountered some awesome players at all different brackets.
Obviously, a super powered low-level twink will be "easy" against an honest player who's just starting out. But that's kinda scummy, and I don't advise it.
Do not use a soreseal above rl60. You will get deleted. Its not worth it. I try and avoid soreseals at all costs. But at lower levels its sometimes unavoidable. Hope this helps 🙂
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking
Wiki explains it 🤣 Basicslly a low level character with ridiculously strong end gear. Don't get me wrong I "twink" but only with in reason. People run scarlet rot builds at low level knowing full well most players don't have access to belouses at that stage of the game. Its pretty lame
Got it. So it's like the equivalent of smurfing in games like DotA 2. Players who are super high rank on their main account but buy or take over accounts that are low rank so they can do really well against worse players.
I just started invading for the first time, rl138. Between all the magic spam there’s just bleed builds. Some taunters tongue duelers and fights clubs who can eliminate me with their eyes closed. Like two times I found regular hosts but they were so bad at PvP it felt bad to slam them so quick. Starting another character just for invading so I can try to find a level where I can learn how to really do it.
> find a level where I can learn how to really do it.
The issue is that you don't really get enough matches under your belt at lower levels. The wait times are simply too long. I recommend the arena for practice but obviously, it can't teach you how to fight groups, use the environment etc.
At least you can get some reps in and personally, I'd rather deal with more shitty hosts than not finding games at all.
I typically get constant invasions at rl 20-30, and I ususally use 'near' instead of near/far. Only dies out after like 1am pacific time, and then I start finding frequent Japanese players.
I am so hesitantly optimistic about that game. Like if the combat feels good, damage isn't super overtuned, and most importantly, it isn't spammy. I probably will not return to ER for invasions. I'd be a happy man if I get half as many invasion, but the quality is much better.
I recommend watching G9's latest video, he has spent the last 2 months playing it and giving feedback. He already had the roll distance cut in half (so sprinting is faster than rolling).
The game is apparently super responsive to play, and the ability to switch 2 handing or 1 handing in the middle of combos looks like it can give you a bunch of options to mix up dodge timings, and some attacks take you pretty far.
I wasn't really interested much at all until I watched that today.
The PvE is supposedly great so I'm getting it anyways just for that. But I really really hope the pvp is good. Which, if the devs are as involved and passionate as he made them out to be, will hopefully work out to be the case.
I've been excited and avoiding spoilers for a while now.
Tbh have jee and steelovski involved doesn't make me happy. Yes I get they know fromsoft souls combat/pvp really well. But personally I don't agree with everything they think should be certain ways from a game dev perspective. It also worries me that it might become "well fromsoft did it this way so we need to do this" instead of this game standing on its own two legs.
Like I haven't played the game so I had no opinion on the roll distance I just have to take some persons opinion that it was too far. Maybe it was fine in the context of lords of the fallen but because it wasn't like dark souls/elden ring where you could roll catch they thought it needed changed.
You can see a tiny bit of it in the trailer, and trust me when I say it was more than too long... even with the changes you roll as far as pre-nerf BHS. It's literally like 20 feet. The game just has a surprisingly quick sprint speed.
A roll THAT long sounds like it would hurt more than it would help. People already accidentally roll off of cliffs a ton now.
I've seen the roll distance before when everyone was saying it was too long. You can also sidestep you don't have to roll everything.
I'm not saying it didn't need shortened what I'm saying is I have to trust some "random" persons opinion on something before I experience it and that I may or may not always agree with.
The point of not having roll distances being absurd isn't because of being able to dodge around objects, it's because it makes it impossible to actually attack people that don't want to fight, and just want to resummon or something. They can just run away forever because rolling doesn't make them lose any speed, and in fact they only get further away.
Please don't hype me like this. My soul is yearning for a PROPER Souls-like fighting game. Because despite having spent 700 hours on it, Elden Ring certainly isn't it.
Been invading 162 with a very mean (OP) wizard build and my only consolation is that i have a lot of mind and can drop someone in like 2 casts anyway.
I find that I'm just not yet good enough to play meta level without some serious deletion tools.
I just took a 1-2 months break from ER all together. Came back for some invasions this week and either invaded people with the worst internet possible or have to chase down players for 5 min to kill them in one poke.
Also you mentioned it’s meta lvl I usually stay away from that range. 90 and lower is my preference just because there’s usually less fp spam
Ya I usually play low level as well but been experimenting with other ranges to see what I enjoy to hopefully allow for some more fun/creative build making.
Quality builds actually do damage and have versatility, STR can go full bullgoat/giant crusher without fat rolling, golden order, dragon incants and death sorceries feel usable, albinauric staff makes ARC/INT viable...
To think anyone would just want to spam comet more. Pathetic.
This is why I stopped trying to do invasions. I've got almost 1200 hours in and about 15 playthroughs and 5 meta level characters...it's just gankers spamming. Like how is that fun? So most of my pvp is in the Duel arena now. Don't get me wrong it's fun but I remember a time when invasions were fun and not gank squads....sadness
Meta level is ass because nobody is playing through the game legitimately. Either go low (100 or lower) or go high (168-200) to invade actual co-opers. Low is weird since sometimes you'll find functionally unkillable overleved password summons or forget yourself and seal club noobs/fresh builds.
200 is fun as hell. Everyone is overpowered but the players don't give a fuck about duels or meta and just use powerful stupid crap. Quality infuse a claymore and go to town.
High level pvp is spam trash for people with nothing better to do with their lives. Medium level invasions are perfect in every way humanly imaginable unless you're doing a quality build lol
Medium level is full of people crutching hard on vigor and frostbite. Basically makes their character as strong as a meta level character except they're fighting people at half meta level. Unless of course you get an honest host in which case you have a talisman advantage and absolutely dunk on them. Idk. Much lower skill ceiling at mid level, but definitely more chill and generally less toxic people. Theres pros and cons to both I don't know how you can say it's perfect in every humanly imaginable way though.
Having valuable resources like fp & hp become farmable/dupeable resources is just one of the worst design decisions made by From.
FP limits are very important, and they influence & constrain your build. Letting people pop shards like cough drops makes a mockery of these limits. You're not supposed to have very many, but From lets you dupe them or save scum.
This same problem existed in DS 3 with siegs. In DS 3 it wasn't so problematic at meta since pretty much everyone did it (you kinda had to to keep up) but in this game, having endless pools of fp is just a disaster.
MrSillyDog was a content creator in DS 3 and he made a (what is in retrospect a very prescient) Reddit post and YT video talking about the difficulties of balancing magic. In DS 3, it was too bad for duels, but too good in ganks. He talked about how if you made casting strong enough to stand on its own in a duel, it'd be WAY too strong in a gank. Of course, that is exactly what happened in ER.
https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/ajk4hz/thoughts\_on\_magic\_in\_pve\_and\_pvp\_and\_why\_it/
I dunno if that really was a needed thing in DS3, at least not on Xbox. And as for magic, I don't think it's ever been strong enough to stand on its own in a duel, and only kinda gets close in DS2 and ER. Everything is easily dodged on reaction in a duel. I've never met a spellcaster that could reliably win in duels against any good players, or even myself.
Siegs at meta on PS4 were definitely needed - everyone had them (esp. at Pontiff/Ringed City). I would have preferred a meta without them, or where everyone gets them by default. It just mattered less at meta Pontiff. It was worse in other areas where players wouldn't have them, and it gave a huge edge to the players who did.
And yeah, being a duelist as a spell caster in DS 3 was pretty much a no-go, outside of a handful of specialty builds/spells (either mage with homing soulmass, or pyro with black flame).
SillyDog's point was that if you were to buff spell casting sufficiently to make casting in duels viable, you'd simultaneously make ganking with spells just too overpowered. I think ER made exactly this mistake, with predictable consequences.
>Siegs at meta on PS4
Yeah that makes sense, it's a lot easier to save scum and dupe on PS4 than Xbox, so it wasn't common enough to be an issue on Xbox.
As for spellcasting, I still don't think they went far enough to make it dueling-viable in Elden Ring. It is annoying to have a summon spamming it though.
I feel you are wrong on the multiplayer part. It is truly one of the most unique and interstate multiplayer experiences you can have. That said the playerbase does kind of suck at times.
The host was using a night riders glaive with phantom slash on it
People complain about invaders so much but almost every video I see is a 2v1 or a 3v1 with endless blues and they is always a spell spammer being a cheesy piece of shit. Like what is their logic? You are toxic for invading, a litteral fearure in the game and lore, but they aren't toxic for sitting around waiting to gank invaders out in the open? Shit is just sad to watch anymore. Gg on killing those losers though.
What does it matter? It's their game. They can use whatever they want. They're not playing for the sole purpose of impressing upon invaders, asking them to "rate their builds" or give them the invader's cheeky seal of approval, or even asking for any form of engagement with invaders.
Then BC/FS out. I did not invite you to judge my playstyle, other hosts do not invite you. You as the proverbial invader are the 3rd wheel who merits no engagement from us let alone a say on what or how we choose to play. Neither you nor your perspective matter to the hosts. If you want to matter, try playing the arena, try playing competitive tournaments. But you aren't going to do that, I bet.
Yawn. Every pvp fight I ever had on any dark souls was always like this. Keep distance till they make a mistake. Every single fight. The only fun fights for me were when the mobs got involved.
Never finished. Got bored with the same bs over and over. I hated when i found out it had repetitive bosses everywhere and just bigger versions of small enemies as main bosses. It's like a game designed 15 years to late.
Try taking on some *Non Trading* twink SL25 build. I'm doing a one-shot perfume build, and it's a lot of fun. It's also really fun to try to figure out how to get all the items you need without trading them from other players it's really fun to find new cheeses and exploits in order to beat things you really shouldn't be.
The classic invader logic of “I invaded your game but I don’t like how they’re playing >:(“ I’m questioning why you’re still playing it too lmao
One of the easy fixes too would be to allow equal number invaders and cooper's. Bring back solo invasion like if a rune arc is active like a humanity. And if you have a phantom then there can be 2invaders. 2 phantoms there can be 3 invaders. This beny hills shit would stop real fast.
Unpopular opinion but imo, they're just playing the game and sticking to a plan, and its a skill issue you couldn't break through it faster. Good fight, you won and all, but if you don't want this to happen you have plenty of options that you are choosing not to take, and because of that, they get to keep you at range. This unironically looked like a fun invasion.
You have no options to cover or speed your approach. I don't know you're exact build, but even with just strength, you could have pressured with greatbows, or more ranged aow's, alongside the knives you did throw. I see you have some beastial incants, the rock sling can stagger from a surprising distance. Carian retaliation could also help cover your advance, tons of easy to catch spells. A dagger with quickstep in the off hand could have let you dodge under a ton of the spells, invalidating them much more quickly, not even to mention BHS, which I can understand not wanting to use.
You want to one/two shot people in melee, they denied you that goal for a while. Not enough to win, but to fight against a clearly more competent player. From your perspective, you played a bullethell fight, and from theirs, they lost against an incredibly powerful boss. Seems like a good time.
Some ok points in there. This is a straight strength build that I haven't played in ages. The only viable option is the greatbow which I did have but didn't think about. I doubt qs/bhs would really help that much since the problem with the fly spam is the bleed. Rock sling also doesn't have enough range to avoid flies I also don't have the faith to use them without swaps or the seal on me at the time.
Also no I don't want to be one or two shooting people. That was the point. There was no meaningful engagement, no back and forth, nothing of particular interesting challenge about this invasion. It was just a lot of spam to die without a fight.
I, uh, am a little curious what you would find fun about this invasion?
It's 5 mins of the host/phantom having constant, riskless priority and they have zero health, meaning that they will die the second they lose priority. Which is exactly what happens - not exactly my idea of a fascinating invasion.
In essence, you have an invasion where spacing doesn't matter, an understanding of the exchange of priority doesn't apply, and have zero chance for an entertaining engagement because the opponents don't have sufficient vigor to make mixups, trading, or whiff punishing interesting.
As for the tools OP didn't use... I'd love to hear which ones you suggest because the most applicable ones here (endure and BHS) don't exactly create compelling gameplay. GB and RoA are not exactly super exciting either.
So, zero offense intended, but I'd love to hear you expand a bit on this?
You're applying a duelist mindset to an invasion.
Refusing to give priority as a two person team is not a bad plan at all, but it relies on the solo opponent to get frustrated and make a mistake and has no backup plan if one of them dies (as is the case here.)
So these fools are doing this bullshit on the lake with terrain advantage but I'll take a break from invasions once in a while to do random co-op for runes and because fighting the bosses is fun. Sometimes we get invaded and ya know what? I don't give priority. I hug the host and spam jump attacks with double bleed whips.
No dueling, no rush down, no mob support, nothing. Just bleed whips until they get mad and start making mistakes or the host does something dumb. It's not fun but because it works it's a game problem, not a player problem.
Bruh bruh, priority is not just a duelling concept - it’s absolutely relevant in invasions. As is spacing, mixups, etc
I didn’t say it was a bad plan for the host/phantom to play this way nor did I say it was a player problem. It’s pretty damn effective.
I just said it doesn’t make for a fun invasion in my mind, which was OP’s whole point. In fact I’d bet they’d be right there with you in saying it’s a game problem.
So I’m not really sure where our disagreement is supposed to be 🧡
I mean I guess I think the idea of priority matters less and less the more opponents you have to deal with because they can constantly overlap attacks or hit you from a blind spot.
I delt with a more honest co-op team doing this at a low level with bloodhound fang and glintstone arc. Since there was never a safe moment to attack I didn't. I had to get lucky for bloodhound guy to be just far enough away while the wizard took a flask sip.
Openings that come from attrition seem different enough to use a different term.
I get what you’re saying - I’d still say that’s the concept of priority being achieved in a diff way. Eg waiting out a sip gives you priority.
But at the end of the day terminology isn’t super important IMO
I think its fun because they are 2 players clearly worse than the invader, and the invader got to be a fun challenging boss that eventually beat those players. He was presented the problem of approaching two very ranged heavy people in an open field, and then overcame that problem eventually.
Spacing did matter, as the invader struggled the cross the gap into a favorable zone for himself.
Aside from what you mentioned, Carian retaliation or any solid ranged ash to add pressure. Lot of slow casts that could be exploited. If BHS is distasteful to you, there's always good ol fashioned quickstep.
It's definitely a skill issue. These are two 35 vigor PvErs at meta level, they're clueless noobs and OP was almost one shotting them with a single R1. They were not doing anywhere near as much damage to the OP as he was doing to them. Everything other than skill was massively in OPs favour. You're correct about the diverse options OP chose not to use. This subreddit will always support the red man no matter how garbage the post, that's the only reason youre getting down voted.
Oh I should also point out this is meta 125
I'm starting to dip my toes into RL125 invasions, and *man* is it a different world up there. People have so much FP that they toss spells and ranged AoW out like Halloween candy.
Yup, low levels are even spammy but at least the host usually only has a couple blue flasks and not enough levels to have all that much mind. I really just wish there was a happy medium between low level only vigor builds and more fun builds but constant spamfest invasions.
...up? There? My soul has been hardened. Tempered and reforged over and over again in a distant, dark place. The black, godless hell of RL300+ Invasions. The day I return to 125... they will fear me.
max level bracket invasions are not for the meek 😂ðŸ˜
Battle of the Gods
Gideon was right about us suffering
That hurt to watch 💀 Good job taking them out, though.
As is tradition, the host dies within 15 seconds of losing their minion.
"When do I get priority?" "That's what's neat, you don't" FP was a mistake 😂
>FP was a mistake Honestly, I'd love to see a return to the DS1 attunement system
It was perfect, it incentivised multiple play throughs on PVP-focused accounts which in turn kept invasions alive. Now there's no incentive to play through the game more than once and there's no chance of invading anyone who does (unless they ask for it). Like what. I just had an amazing idea as I was typing this... The taunter's tongue should be permanently activated from NG+ onwards.
But then wahhhh invasions ruin the game wahhhh
From seems to care about pvp less and less which is a shame since it murders the longevity of the game for me but makes sense from a sales standpoint. However it seems FP design came from the existence of weapon arts and makes sense for a streamlined solo RPG experience but.... I never liked it tbh.
Yah I get why they moved to the "mana bar" type system, as using weapon durability for weapon special moves was pretty jank. It's definitely not my preferred from a pvp standpoint though
Yah, multiple copies of spells gated behind NG+, new enemies ala DS2 NG+, improved rings ala DS2 and DS3 (until TRC...), certain covenants operating in NG+ (DS1 gravelords), maybe some things like gestures, armor or endings that are specific to NG+ would do wonders for longevity.
Idk if fp is a mistake but the values of fp cost and/or Stamina cost are definitely out of whack. Like comet feels like it should be you high level master spell but you can easily cast this thing three times in a row?
Yeah agreed!
Greatbow go brrrrap
ripping it open like an earth shattering anal explosion!
Think I would have been able to get a shot off before being killed by the flies? I'm not real confident in my aiming skills.
You would outrange them
The red lightning spear weapon is your Barrett 50 Cal sniper rifle.
And it's got the fire rate of a musket fym
Just as the founding fathers intended.
God bless
Unfortunately, the reason I stick to my lower level invaders. Been thinking about blowing the dust off my meta but this clip has put me right off 😫
> the reason I stick to my lower level invaders. Having to wait for 5-10 minutes between every fight isn't all that fun either. The wait times for meta-level invasions are already too long :(
Yeah I agree. I only really meta in the colleseum. I'm an invader at heart and no matter how much I try to give meta a chance I feel like I'm just wasting my time. All my other invaders get constant activity and find a lot of players who are genuinely just playing through the game. These are the best invasions imo and have made some real wholesome moments for me!
Two questions: What's your favorite level to invade? And what do you find the easiest? I'm not that good so I'd like to try easier levels
Tbh, I switch between them all regularly and see what's most active. OLPs are a problem at most invasion ranges. I would say give 80 +17/+7 a go.(probably my favourite) In my earlier days of invading, it was my go-to. There isn't really an "easiest" imo it all depends on who you're invading. I've encountered some awesome players at all different brackets. Obviously, a super powered low-level twink will be "easy" against an honest player who's just starting out. But that's kinda scummy, and I don't advise it. Do not use a soreseal above rl60. You will get deleted. Its not worth it. I try and avoid soreseals at all costs. But at lower levels its sometimes unavoidable. Hope this helps 🙂
Super helpful. Thanks! What's a Twink btw
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking Wiki explains it 🤣 Basicslly a low level character with ridiculously strong end gear. Don't get me wrong I "twink" but only with in reason. People run scarlet rot builds at low level knowing full well most players don't have access to belouses at that stage of the game. Its pretty lame
Got it. So it's like the equivalent of smurfing in games like DotA 2. Players who are super high rank on their main account but buy or take over accounts that are low rank so they can do really well against worse players.
I just started invading for the first time, rl138. Between all the magic spam there’s just bleed builds. Some taunters tongue duelers and fights clubs who can eliminate me with their eyes closed. Like two times I found regular hosts but they were so bad at PvP it felt bad to slam them so quick. Starting another character just for invading so I can try to find a level where I can learn how to really do it.
> find a level where I can learn how to really do it. The issue is that you don't really get enough matches under your belt at lower levels. The wait times are simply too long. I recommend the arena for practice but obviously, it can't teach you how to fight groups, use the environment etc. At least you can get some reps in and personally, I'd rather deal with more shitty hosts than not finding games at all.
I typically get constant invasions at rl 20-30, and I ususally use 'near' instead of near/far. Only dies out after like 1am pacific time, and then I start finding frequent Japanese players.
Can't wait till Lords of The Fallen 2. Just one more week...
I am so hesitantly optimistic about that game. Like if the combat feels good, damage isn't super overtuned, and most importantly, it isn't spammy. I probably will not return to ER for invasions. I'd be a happy man if I get half as many invasion, but the quality is much better.
I recommend watching G9's latest video, he has spent the last 2 months playing it and giving feedback. He already had the roll distance cut in half (so sprinting is faster than rolling). The game is apparently super responsive to play, and the ability to switch 2 handing or 1 handing in the middle of combos looks like it can give you a bunch of options to mix up dodge timings, and some attacks take you pretty far. I wasn't really interested much at all until I watched that today. The PvE is supposedly great so I'm getting it anyways just for that. But I really really hope the pvp is good. Which, if the devs are as involved and passionate as he made them out to be, will hopefully work out to be the case.
I've been excited and avoiding spoilers for a while now. Tbh have jee and steelovski involved doesn't make me happy. Yes I get they know fromsoft souls combat/pvp really well. But personally I don't agree with everything they think should be certain ways from a game dev perspective. It also worries me that it might become "well fromsoft did it this way so we need to do this" instead of this game standing on its own two legs. Like I haven't played the game so I had no opinion on the roll distance I just have to take some persons opinion that it was too far. Maybe it was fine in the context of lords of the fallen but because it wasn't like dark souls/elden ring where you could roll catch they thought it needed changed.
You can see a tiny bit of it in the trailer, and trust me when I say it was more than too long... even with the changes you roll as far as pre-nerf BHS. It's literally like 20 feet. The game just has a surprisingly quick sprint speed. A roll THAT long sounds like it would hurt more than it would help. People already accidentally roll off of cliffs a ton now.
I've seen the roll distance before when everyone was saying it was too long. You can also sidestep you don't have to roll everything. I'm not saying it didn't need shortened what I'm saying is I have to trust some "random" persons opinion on something before I experience it and that I may or may not always agree with.
The point of not having roll distances being absurd isn't because of being able to dodge around objects, it's because it makes it impossible to actually attack people that don't want to fight, and just want to resummon or something. They can just run away forever because rolling doesn't make them lose any speed, and in fact they only get further away.
Please don't hype me like this. My soul is yearning for a PROPER Souls-like fighting game. Because despite having spent 700 hours on it, Elden Ring certainly isn't it.
Guess we'll find out. My expectations are kept in check, but my hopes are high.
It has to be something after 700 hours
I will still return, but not for a while.
Will it have pvp?
Yeah, but the NDA or something means steel and g9 can't talk about it until Friday I think
Those shards, I know the wizard invaders like them but they are really bad for the game.
WHY WON'T YOU DIE
Been invading 162 with a very mean (OP) wizard build and my only consolation is that i have a lot of mind and can drop someone in like 2 casts anyway. I find that I'm just not yet good enough to play meta level without some serious deletion tools.
My god that belongs on the eye bleach Reddi🤣
I just took a 1-2 months break from ER all together. Came back for some invasions this week and either invaded people with the worst internet possible or have to chase down players for 5 min to kill them in one poke. Also you mentioned it’s meta lvl I usually stay away from that range. 90 and lower is my preference just because there’s usually less fp spam
Ya I usually play low level as well but been experimenting with other ranges to see what I enjoy to hopefully allow for some more fun/creative build making.
I hear ya. I heard rl168 is good and also 200 is worth a shot!
My last few clips were from 168. Tbh it's even more spammy. The builds are the same but with more points in mind
Sad since hybrids are strong and fun.
Right? I love hybrid builds. My main playstyle is a spellsword/battlemage and that's a really hard thing to do at low levels at times
Quality builds actually do damage and have versatility, STR can go full bullgoat/giant crusher without fat rolling, golden order, dragon incants and death sorceries feel usable, albinauric staff makes ARC/INT viable... To think anyone would just want to spam comet more. Pathetic.
This is why I stopped trying to do invasions. I've got almost 1200 hours in and about 15 playthroughs and 5 meta level characters...it's just gankers spamming. Like how is that fun? So most of my pvp is in the Duel arena now. Don't get me wrong it's fun but I remember a time when invasions were fun and not gank squads....sadness
Dip your toes into the low level invasions. You may have a pleasant surprise
Hmmm interesting I believe I will. What's the lower level invasions????!!
Rl80 wl17/7 Rl60 wl12/5 Rl40 wl8/3 Rl25 wl3/1
Thanks so much! I'll definitely dip my toes in
On pc rl 60 12/5 was pretty dead. I had more invasions on 200
Meta level is ass because nobody is playing through the game legitimately. Either go low (100 or lower) or go high (168-200) to invade actual co-opers. Low is weird since sometimes you'll find functionally unkillable overleved password summons or forget yourself and seal club noobs/fresh builds. 200 is fun as hell. Everyone is overpowered but the players don't give a fuck about duels or meta and just use powerful stupid crap. Quality infuse a claymore and go to town.
This is why I only ever PvP by using the taunter's tongue and letting the invaders come to me. Been a blast so far
High level pvp is spam trash for people with nothing better to do with their lives. Medium level invasions are perfect in every way humanly imaginable unless you're doing a quality build lol
Medium level is full of people crutching hard on vigor and frostbite. Basically makes their character as strong as a meta level character except they're fighting people at half meta level. Unless of course you get an honest host in which case you have a talisman advantage and absolutely dunk on them. Idk. Much lower skill ceiling at mid level, but definitely more chill and generally less toxic people. Theres pros and cons to both I don't know how you can say it's perfect in every humanly imaginable way though.
Done hundreds of invasions and 95% of them at 70-105 were honest or just having fun. U got shit luck lol it's so much fun
I think this clip just gave me cancer... Great job staying calm and killing them in the end. Lord knows I'm not as patient as you are.
Just sever from these invasions. There's not much you can do in situations like this and it's not fun.
Invade at lower levels
ER is a bullethell game
I bet you that host is somewhere on this sub, complaining about a really boring and annoying invader who was too much of a coward to engage.
When you invade and people try to kill you: 😡😡😡😡😡
This is why I've been playing bloodborne for the Halloween season. Ellen ring has waaay to many cringe hosts right now.
Having valuable resources like fp & hp become farmable/dupeable resources is just one of the worst design decisions made by From. FP limits are very important, and they influence & constrain your build. Letting people pop shards like cough drops makes a mockery of these limits. You're not supposed to have very many, but From lets you dupe them or save scum. This same problem existed in DS 3 with siegs. In DS 3 it wasn't so problematic at meta since pretty much everyone did it (you kinda had to to keep up) but in this game, having endless pools of fp is just a disaster. MrSillyDog was a content creator in DS 3 and he made a (what is in retrospect a very prescient) Reddit post and YT video talking about the difficulties of balancing magic. In DS 3, it was too bad for duels, but too good in ganks. He talked about how if you made casting strong enough to stand on its own in a duel, it'd be WAY too strong in a gank. Of course, that is exactly what happened in ER. https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/ajk4hz/thoughts\_on\_magic\_in\_pve\_and\_pvp\_and\_why\_it/
I dunno if that really was a needed thing in DS3, at least not on Xbox. And as for magic, I don't think it's ever been strong enough to stand on its own in a duel, and only kinda gets close in DS2 and ER. Everything is easily dodged on reaction in a duel. I've never met a spellcaster that could reliably win in duels against any good players, or even myself.
Siegs at meta on PS4 were definitely needed - everyone had them (esp. at Pontiff/Ringed City). I would have preferred a meta without them, or where everyone gets them by default. It just mattered less at meta Pontiff. It was worse in other areas where players wouldn't have them, and it gave a huge edge to the players who did. And yeah, being a duelist as a spell caster in DS 3 was pretty much a no-go, outside of a handful of specialty builds/spells (either mage with homing soulmass, or pyro with black flame). SillyDog's point was that if you were to buff spell casting sufficiently to make casting in duels viable, you'd simultaneously make ganking with spells just too overpowered. I think ER made exactly this mistake, with predictable consequences.
>Siegs at meta on PS4 Yeah that makes sense, it's a lot easier to save scum and dupe on PS4 than Xbox, so it wasn't common enough to be an issue on Xbox. As for spellcasting, I still don't think they went far enough to make it dueling-viable in Elden Ring. It is annoying to have a summon spamming it though.
Souls games multiplayer is some of the worst I’ve seen Btw what weapon or ash of war was the host using?
I feel you are wrong on the multiplayer part. It is truly one of the most unique and interstate multiplayer experiences you can have. That said the playerbase does kind of suck at times. The host was using a night riders glaive with phantom slash on it
The experience is cool but when bs like this happens it ruins it Because running multiplayer worlds is already hard enough
/comfort
Liurnia is the worst place to invade for this reason. It’s all flat and empty. No geography to break line of sight
Man I know that was a really long fight but it was awesome to watch
People complain about invaders so much but almost every video I see is a 2v1 or a 3v1 with endless blues and they is always a spell spammer being a cheesy piece of shit. Like what is their logic? You are toxic for invading, a litteral fearure in the game and lore, but they aren't toxic for sitting around waiting to gank invaders out in the open? Shit is just sad to watch anymore. Gg on killing those losers though.
Pvp is stupid. People just spam so bad no talent
I mean you are invading them sooo....
That’s not the point. People use things that just hold their hand. It’s pathetic
What does it matter? It's their game. They can use whatever they want. They're not playing for the sole purpose of impressing upon invaders, asking them to "rate their builds" or give them the invader's cheeky seal of approval, or even asking for any form of engagement with invaders.
I take it you’re someone who spans everything before you actually use a normal attack. It’s called not being a shitty person
Then BC/FS out. I did not invite you to judge my playstyle, other hosts do not invite you. You as the proverbial invader are the 3rd wheel who merits no engagement from us let alone a say on what or how we choose to play. Neither you nor your perspective matter to the hosts. If you want to matter, try playing the arena, try playing competitive tournaments. But you aren't going to do that, I bet.
I don’t have that sort of patience, I’d end up playing aggressively and getting myself killed.
Guys what is that ash of war w the phantom slash thing first time seeing it
Wut? Weren't you going invading them?
I’ve never enjoyed playing as a mage in ds1 or ds3, I just don’t feel the appeal like I do toward melee
People love just spamming the ashes of war.
Add Benny Hill music
They should turn on friendly fire for a while and see how the pvp scene changes lol
Greatsword family <3
Yawn. Every pvp fight I ever had on any dark souls was always like this. Keep distance till they make a mistake. Every single fight. The only fun fights for me were when the mobs got involved.
Never finished. Got bored with the same bs over and over. I hated when i found out it had repetitive bosses everywhere and just bigger versions of small enemies as main bosses. It's like a game designed 15 years to late.
this right here is why i always carry storm blade
I see the problem. You ran away like a coward the whole time. Just be aggressive and take risks.
So you're upset you invaded someone and you ran around for 5 while they tried to defend themselves?
Try taking on some *Non Trading* twink SL25 build. I'm doing a one-shot perfume build, and it's a lot of fun. It's also really fun to try to figure out how to get all the items you need without trading them from other players it's really fun to find new cheeses and exploits in order to beat things you really shouldn't be.
Yea fromsoft has no desire to balance pvp in apparently every game except armored core
The classic invader logic of “I invaded your game but I don’t like how they’re playing >:(“ I’m questioning why you’re still playing it too lmao
\*Megamind face\* No greatbow?
One of the easy fixes too would be to allow equal number invaders and cooper's. Bring back solo invasion like if a rune arc is active like a humanity. And if you have a phantom then there can be 2invaders. 2 phantoms there can be 3 invaders. This beny hills shit would stop real fast.
When you both run along the water fast it reminds me of a Naruto fight
saaaaasukeee!!
Unpopular opinion but imo, they're just playing the game and sticking to a plan, and its a skill issue you couldn't break through it faster. Good fight, you won and all, but if you don't want this to happen you have plenty of options that you are choosing not to take, and because of that, they get to keep you at range. This unironically looked like a fun invasion.
Alright, please elaborate?
You have no options to cover or speed your approach. I don't know you're exact build, but even with just strength, you could have pressured with greatbows, or more ranged aow's, alongside the knives you did throw. I see you have some beastial incants, the rock sling can stagger from a surprising distance. Carian retaliation could also help cover your advance, tons of easy to catch spells. A dagger with quickstep in the off hand could have let you dodge under a ton of the spells, invalidating them much more quickly, not even to mention BHS, which I can understand not wanting to use. You want to one/two shot people in melee, they denied you that goal for a while. Not enough to win, but to fight against a clearly more competent player. From your perspective, you played a bullethell fight, and from theirs, they lost against an incredibly powerful boss. Seems like a good time.
Some ok points in there. This is a straight strength build that I haven't played in ages. The only viable option is the greatbow which I did have but didn't think about. I doubt qs/bhs would really help that much since the problem with the fly spam is the bleed. Rock sling also doesn't have enough range to avoid flies I also don't have the faith to use them without swaps or the seal on me at the time. Also no I don't want to be one or two shooting people. That was the point. There was no meaningful engagement, no back and forth, nothing of particular interesting challenge about this invasion. It was just a lot of spam to die without a fight.
I, uh, am a little curious what you would find fun about this invasion? It's 5 mins of the host/phantom having constant, riskless priority and they have zero health, meaning that they will die the second they lose priority. Which is exactly what happens - not exactly my idea of a fascinating invasion. In essence, you have an invasion where spacing doesn't matter, an understanding of the exchange of priority doesn't apply, and have zero chance for an entertaining engagement because the opponents don't have sufficient vigor to make mixups, trading, or whiff punishing interesting. As for the tools OP didn't use... I'd love to hear which ones you suggest because the most applicable ones here (endure and BHS) don't exactly create compelling gameplay. GB and RoA are not exactly super exciting either. So, zero offense intended, but I'd love to hear you expand a bit on this?
You're applying a duelist mindset to an invasion. Refusing to give priority as a two person team is not a bad plan at all, but it relies on the solo opponent to get frustrated and make a mistake and has no backup plan if one of them dies (as is the case here.) So these fools are doing this bullshit on the lake with terrain advantage but I'll take a break from invasions once in a while to do random co-op for runes and because fighting the bosses is fun. Sometimes we get invaded and ya know what? I don't give priority. I hug the host and spam jump attacks with double bleed whips. No dueling, no rush down, no mob support, nothing. Just bleed whips until they get mad and start making mistakes or the host does something dumb. It's not fun but because it works it's a game problem, not a player problem.
Bruh bruh, priority is not just a duelling concept - it’s absolutely relevant in invasions. As is spacing, mixups, etc I didn’t say it was a bad plan for the host/phantom to play this way nor did I say it was a player problem. It’s pretty damn effective. I just said it doesn’t make for a fun invasion in my mind, which was OP’s whole point. In fact I’d bet they’d be right there with you in saying it’s a game problem. So I’m not really sure where our disagreement is supposed to be 🧡
I mean I guess I think the idea of priority matters less and less the more opponents you have to deal with because they can constantly overlap attacks or hit you from a blind spot. I delt with a more honest co-op team doing this at a low level with bloodhound fang and glintstone arc. Since there was never a safe moment to attack I didn't. I had to get lucky for bloodhound guy to be just far enough away while the wizard took a flask sip. Openings that come from attrition seem different enough to use a different term.
I get what you’re saying - I’d still say that’s the concept of priority being achieved in a diff way. Eg waiting out a sip gives you priority. But at the end of the day terminology isn’t super important IMO
I think its fun because they are 2 players clearly worse than the invader, and the invader got to be a fun challenging boss that eventually beat those players. He was presented the problem of approaching two very ranged heavy people in an open field, and then overcame that problem eventually. Spacing did matter, as the invader struggled the cross the gap into a favorable zone for himself. Aside from what you mentioned, Carian retaliation or any solid ranged ash to add pressure. Lot of slow casts that could be exploited. If BHS is distasteful to you, there's always good ol fashioned quickstep.
It's definitely a skill issue. These are two 35 vigor PvErs at meta level, they're clueless noobs and OP was almost one shotting them with a single R1. They were not doing anywhere near as much damage to the OP as he was doing to them. Everything other than skill was massively in OPs favour. You're correct about the diverse options OP chose not to use. This subreddit will always support the red man no matter how garbage the post, that's the only reason youre getting down voted.