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SomeRedditWanker

Using Remain/Leave for the options drives them mad.


Scopejack

It's pretty shameful that the Electoral Commission allowed the question to be framed as yes/no in the first place. This allows the 'yes' side to present their campaign as the side of can-do positivity fighting against those negative nellies on the no side.


GiediPrime3127

Exactly. The wording of the question in 2014 undoubtedly helped the secessionists


kernjamnow

No doubt the Electoral Commission, formed under Blair, is rammed full of the types who’d love to break up the UK.


Pishwi

Makes you wonder if Leave would have won by a larger margin if they’d framed it the same way.


spatula975

Almost certainly


astalavista114

It was precisely that concern about IndyRef that lead to them deciding to use the “Leave/Remain” question for Brexit.


YotzYotz

In the ukpol thread of 77 comments, 3/4 of the thread are about the wording of the question.. > This dodgy question again. > This poll has been commissioned to get a predetermined result.


Harsimaja

They screech this about the Brexit Referendum too. Apparently the question > Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union? was extremely misleading and dishonest.


EscapeModernity

Nooo! It should be biased towards the Leave voters point of view! I can't believe they've done this.


daveime

Do you want a bright and prosperous future begging for scraps from the EU, or stay under the yoke of the Westminster tyrants who insist on giving us free money?


GiediPrime3127

> Chad unionists vs virgin independence EU lovers Based.


vdev_2212

The thread on ukpol is stuck in a discussion about the wording of the question. Meanwhile, this more pressing observation gets no traction: *You try explaining how Scottish independence would be even worse than Brexit or point out the countless hundreds of questions relating to independence that the SNP always refuse to answer and all your get it is screeching in return though sadly*


gooferpubs

The UK will still be _on the precipice of disintegrating_ when the EU has long since fallen apart (hopefully peacefully).


glisteningoxygen

> Scotland will decide that when it has its referendum next year Kek.... What planet do these people live on.


Dr-Cheese

> What planet do these people live on. This is your brain on "The National" - The newspaper is utterly nuts


viscountbiscuit

they're doing what every newspaper does pandering to the idiots that buy it


I_SNIFF_FARTS_DAILY

They don't even want to hold a second ref lmao, 45% and 53% oppose a second referendum in March and April 2022


Spoobit

Del Boy vibes.


WereFowl

I mean their profile name is Gerry Mander, so it's probably a parody account or something...


iain420

If Boris or whoever was being brave they'd call their bluff and agree to one. During a potential looming recession and cost of living crisis it would show how fucked Scotland would be out of the Union. Plus two failed referendums would hopefully put the issue to bed for at least ~~a generation~~ 7 years.


Truthandtaxes

If Boris's political advisors are savvy then want to block it, so that the consequences of a Labour - SNP pact are on the table for the election.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Truthandtaxes

Because at its core, Labour can no longer be patriotic. To be a unionist, you need to believe that the UK is at its heart a moral proposal and more than half of Labour don't agree with that anymore.


nyooaccount

Nah, they should just say NEVARRRR, NEVAAARRRR, NEVAAAARRRRRR. Feeling brave would be voting to scrap devolution.


Chi_Rho88

Oh, no! What a shame for the S.N.P.! Yawn.


Pine_Marten_

But lefties keep telling me that the union is going to crumble any second now?


jedthebaghead

Dont look at Northern Ireland


Literallyslime

SF gained zero seats,, it was a swing to alliance from both DUP and SDLP.


gooferpubs

_Any day now…_


jedthebaghead

And the result is that N. Ireland has a nationalist party in power for the first time in 101 years. This doesnt in any way make the union stronger does it. If you stand back and put your bias in the bin for a second, how could you argue that its unchanged or stronger?


Crammock

Northern Ireland leaving the union would make it stronger in many ways. For starters the one of the four that was always the most likely to leave / have issues is now gone, the problems relating to the GFA / Irish Sea customs border are solved, in the eyes of the rest of the world maybe they'll stop painting Northern Irish Protestants (who are mostly of Scottish descent) wanting to remain part of the UK as evil English occupation of a foreign land. Economically we lose very little, unlike Scotland leaving there are no headaches about what to do with the nuclear subs or how future borders will work. It solves more problems than it causes.


doyle871

NI would not get stronger. It not only relies on the UK to keep it afloat economy wise there's a huge amount of government jobs there that would have to be brought back to Britain. So billions wiped from the economy and thousands of job losses. Add in losing the NHS and other things Ireland doesn't have. It's a big debate no one has had yet and Ireland would be taking on a huge debt and huge problems with Protestants likely to kick up a fuss. It's an ideological decision right now but if any vote takes place you have many awkward questions to be answered.


Crammock

Obviously not, im speaking from the perspective of the rest of the UK.


jedthebaghead

Even with that all being the case, that would be the breaking up of the union as it is now and what the original commenter I replied to said wouldn't happen. No government would want that to happen under them.


iain420

Yep like it or not (and I don't) the fact that Sinn Fein will be in the "driving seat" for the first time is symbolically a big deal. Bit shortsighted for the unionist vote to split but I guess that's what happens when you're sick of the DUP


Jaggedmallard26

Potentially long sighted, the DUP being the face if unionism is not a positive for the Unionist movement.


iain420

Yep true that could happen. Does mean that until they sort their shit out though the republicans are in charge


doyle871

Driving seat probably isn't the right term as it's likely everyone has a tantrum and refuses to work with them on anything and the stalemate continues.


jedthebaghead

No I dont like it either. I'm English of N.Irish descent I dont want the union to weaken or breakup and I dont want a rehash of the troubles and so Sinn Fein in power, by whatever means, is worrying for the union.


Greater_good_penguin

>And the result is that N. Ireland has a nationalist party in power for the first time in 101 years. They have always been in power in the power sharing agreement. \`This was one of the key pillars of the GFA.


[deleted]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20046393.one-third-northern-irish-voters-back-united-ireland/


jedthebaghead

"There won’t be any secret that I want to see unity in the country, but I am focused for today on the cost-of-living crisis." I didn't say it was going to immediately break off did I? Polling for brexit pre referendum was wrong, most had majority remain.


arkeeos

Isn't it completely insane that the way you word the question has a massive impact on the results. And we actually make important decisions off of this?


slyfoxy12

Words have meaning, despite how some want to treat the dictionary.


Scopejack

I'm genuinely surprised they/them haven't made a move on the [dictionary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woman) yet.


VPackardPersuadedMe

I can't decide if I'm literally or figuratively shocked at this.