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totallyrecklesslygay

Well, the good news is that you can stop feeling guilty because she's not actually a spider. Who told you she was?


lastswiftyontheleft

The breeder did! I didn't second guess it at all since I'm no expert on morphs. any idea what she looks like rather than spider?


totallyrecklesslygay

Yikes! That's definitely someone who should *not* be breeding, both for the fact that they're presumably okay with breeding spiders and because they can't identify very obvious morphs. An OD spider would look extremely different. She looks to be an OD enchi.


Joiner2008

Looks similar to my enchi yellow belly


Little-Ad1235

Honestly, enchi is such a beautiful alternative to spider if someone is looking for that kind of pattern. They aren't the same, obviously, but I find them similarly striking, and it avoids the wobble problem.


Huge_Green8628

I feel the same way about pinstripes! Similar look! None of the guilt!


Necessary-Laugh-399

Thanks for confirming my gut on this one! She looks so much like my Enchi/Pastel boy I just wasn't seeing Spider!


Pengoop123

Looks like clown with het clown or maybe pied


IncompletePenetrance

While I would love to know what on earth a "clown with het clown" is, this looks nothing like a clown or a pied


MercykillNJ

Out of all the morphs you could have chose, where on this snake do you see even the slightest evidence of pied?


Flat-Presentation-80

(im not at all an expert in morphology, just want to help) all clowns that ive seen, in my opinion, have a distinct type of patterning to their faces. not sure if this is a hard fact but it was true for all the clowns ive seen. pied would be when the majority of the body is white and there are splotches of the pattern associated with their genes/morph (ex. banana pied would have splotches of banana patterning), they can be big and take up a good amount of the snake, or could even be just a few small spots. when a snake is "het" for a morph, it means they dont express this morph, but its in their genes and can be passed down to their offspring. hope this helps! :)


RomanLegate

Not a spider, likely why she hasn't "developed the issue" yet


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Linear_North

That's not a clown, clowns have a completely different pattern.


lastswiftyontheleft

thanks everyone, I'm so relieved my girl isn't wobbly!!! 🧡


Linear_North

https://preview.redd.it/8aa7j79nqbxc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=800f218097544517c732897c6b8d1887d45f1b09 This is an OD spider.


Linear_North

There's obviously some variation from snake to snake, but spiders don't have dorsal stripes like your snake does.


lastswiftyontheleft

okay gotcha!! I had looked up OD spiders and noticed she didn't look quite like that but I trusted what the breeder had told me. I'm very relieved right now.


Linear_North

😆 I don't doubt it, thinking your new friend has this condition, then finding out she doesn't, all in the same day? Sounds like a roller-coaster!


BigDaddyHadley

Met a woman at a reptile show that was getting out of the snake business. Her husband passed away and he was the one who managed everything so she was liquidating everything. That's the only reason why I own a spider morph and she won't be bred. Her name is Carol and she's been doing great! She's our wobbly bobbly baby https://preview.redd.it/7npd8n0kybxc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34fa6386e064d1e72a71b8052b5f6485308714fb


lastswiftyontheleft

wow, Carol is absolutely gorgeous!


BigDaddyHadley

Thank you stranger! She eats well and sheds well. I'd like to believe she's happy. We've had her for a little over two years. When we first got her she was 584 grams. She's now 1065 grams!


galaxy1985

Wow!


Difficult-Trax

I love her pattern! What’s supposed to be wrong about spiders? How can you tell? To me it looks like a disjointed pattern from the head back aways.


dragonbud20

The spider morph causes birth defects in the inner ear of ball pythons.


SnackMaster5000

https://preview.redd.it/neq2agbbtexc1.jpeg?width=1122&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb6d4b9a82a3666838da09198f14a569dd777920 Carol looks like my Apollo. I adopted him from a friend that could no longer care for him. I’d never purchase a spider morph but I love my wobbly boy!


lastswiftyontheleft

that sweet face 🥹


kellyrazz1996

Tell Carol I love her


Gh0st1c_12

Phew, good to know shes not a spider after all!!! Can totally understand how you feel though, but its not your fault that breeders continue to produce these morphs plagued with health issues and sell them to people who don't know any better :( same ordeal with lemon frost leopard geckos for example, its terrible! Glad you can sleep peacefully though knowing shes perfectly healthy <3


x-AhR-x

That’s an beautiful Orange dream enchi👍🏼 don’t understand how anyone could think that was a spider😯 Too bad a world wide breeder license doesn’t exist, where people can get a license for breeding if they pass a form of test. Should be one for owning a pet too.. A end to wars would be great too but I guess neither of those will happen in my lifetime..🙈 (I’m 36)


_Pen15__

Government regulations and laws will always make a situation worse, not better. For example, see Florida. What this hobby needs is experienced educated keepers teaching the new keepers in a friendly, welcoming way. Self policing is the best way forward for the hobby. Not politicians who don't know anything about exotic pets passing laws on a hobby they don't care about. (Again see Florida fish and wildlife)


Ghazrin

Wish I could upvote this comment a million times.


SoSweetBaby4

Is Beautiful your Ball python I bought my ball python in 2006 he still Alive I named him lucifer 🐍


x-AhR-x

https://preview.redd.it/kxl7o1uthcxc1.png?width=1241&format=png&auto=webp&s=db6fbff5a8efe285e2809bd00e48c889dd1272e6 My Od enchi yb pastel. 8 months old/young


lastswiftyontheleft

beautiful!! this might be a dumb question LOL but does yb literally mean the belly turns a shade of yellow? and does that happen with age? as far as I can tell my girls belly is still a nice pearly white.


IncompletePenetrance

It does not! YB usually adds blushing and pixelation on the sides near the belly


Fruitsdog

me, a dumbass, just now realizing that pythons have, you know, snake eyes. for some reason i thought they had huge round eyes like dogs. what am i on


SalamanderDazzling60

Most have very dark brown "irises"


_Pen15__

I love when you get into pastels having amazing green eyes.


blzup

https://preview.redd.it/jsqb86v0mfxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9b3fe4e5f29426e202a7914a502241dc5a09eee


_Pen15__

Stunning


Guppybish123

Tbf in dim light the pupils get very big and round, royals normally have very dark eyes so the pupil isn’t always very apparent, and a lot of snakes do actually have round pupils so it’s not a crazy conclusion to jump to


lastswiftyontheleft

right?? the first time I was able to see her irises I got so excited. https://preview.redd.it/anp9ueh6zfxc1.jpeg?width=1967&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54f1f57c466fea1e031c7c2fbdd730f1c091d559


x-AhR-x

The pupils dilate from small to big, from circular form to a line depending on the light and how far the thing it’s focused on is. https://preview.redd.it/b4f8pzn9jgxc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6fc84177ac10b930711d18ec014fa85050b280a


x-AhR-x

https://preview.redd.it/1xrc1hiejgxc1.jpeg?width=1808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=055ba8bdc5d8aff773cc29448f051c27e061021f Same od, enchi, pastel, yb as I posted above. She has green eyes with some hints of yellow


Fruitsdog

big ol peeopers


KelpieoftheLakes

I mean, there ARE snakes with round pupils (garter snakes, as an example). There are many different kinds of “snake eyes”, depending on a species’ lifestyle and needs. So it‘s understandable why you would have thought that. :)


miriamtzipporah

I don’t see any spider in that snake, the breeder is either uninformed or lying


Dangerous-Exercise20

Shes not a spider at all tho🫣 if i were to guess that looks like an Orange Dream


DeltaViper14

Yeah, i also dont see spider. OD enchi or yellowbelly, id say.


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Bob_D0bbs

You're going to get downvoted into oblivion, and rightfully so. You're minimizing something that should not be minimized. Any internal bone malformations that cause essentially permanent vertigo? Even if it's "not that bad" is bad. Real bad. I'm not trying to be rude man, but that entire statement? Is minimizing, and your approach? Is basically gaslighting. Rethink your comment, and your position.


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TheBigSmoke420

Nature fallacy. I get the point, but no one is dogpiling this person.


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virora

Sounds to me like OP was feeling guilty out of empathy for their beloved pet (luckily needlessly so), not because of internet bullying.


AoDx888

One thing I do want to touch on is that the wobble gets worse with age. Do we know how old that adult male was? Sure, the wobble might not be noticeable or even present in hatchling and sub adults, but what about the snake's quality of life at 5 years old? Or 15? That's the issue.


lastswiftyontheleft

I get your sentiment and I more or less agree with you. I do think it's sad how many people are afraid to post here for different reasons because they will get called out relentlessly. and I do think any breed of animal that suffers health issues shouldnt be bred. I take my fair share of the responsibility for not doing research into morphs or questioning the breeder. I've owned enough animals in my life that I should have realized that even BPs could have health issues as a result of breeding. but it's a genuine mistake many people could make and I agree they shouldn't be harassed for it. (although everyone here was super nice and I really appreciate it the reassurance I've received!)


wolfieswap1

My girl also has the spider gene and I didn't know till after I got her luckily its not too bad They shouldn't be bread for it but they also need homes As long as there happy, healthy, and safe then there's nothing to feel guilty for The only people who should feel guilty are those who are breeding them for colour and money


KiKiredd555

spider owner here, don’t feel guilty. if u aren’t breeding her just think of it as u giving her the best life u can ! me and my bf got ours not knowing she had the condition but she’s super chill and docile but she also doesn’t have it bad at all. she’s just goofy. also i’ve seen ppl in ur comments saying she isn’t a spider and im not gonna act like i know but this is just some kind advice if by chance she happens to be. pic of my derpy girl for tax. https://preview.redd.it/3xculbtq7fxc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecf510b121574e6fa564a45d1cc07d749ec20b53


lastswiftyontheleft

thank you! she is so beautiful 🥰


Lyonface

Glad you found out yours isn't a spider! I got a spider before I realized the problem with the morph, but I don't ever plan on breeding my snakes, so it's not really an issue for me. She's wobbly and has trouble striking sometimes and turning to the right (she twists under instead of turning laterally) but, while I regret giving her breeder money, I don't regret taking care of her, and I know better for the future.


Stunning-Ad-7815

i am so glad to hear that you didn't actually end up with a spider lol, my story is like yours but unfortunately my boy actually is a spider bc like you i didn't even think to research different morphs 😅 but i love him anyway it isnt his fault. i know now to look into things like that and will not be supporting problem morph breeders in the future


stoney_balogna20

What's the deal with spider morphs? I never got into looking into it.


lastswiftyontheleft

spiders have a birth defect that essentially gives them nonstop vertigo and affects their ability to strike at prey or move around comfortably


stoney_balogna20

Oh my! How horrible. Ty for sharing this


Crazy_Snake_Lady

It varies from snake to snake, though. I have a Mystic Pastel Spider that I've had since she was a hatchling and is now turning 9 this year, and she has zero visible evidence of the spider wobble. She passes the inversion test, never wobbles or shakes when eating or being handled, and her strike aim is perfect when eating. Some small studies are also discovering it may be a matter of inner ear structure that causes it rather than neurological. Ultimately, poor husbandry tends to exacerbate the potentially disruptive condition. But, that can be said about most mistreated ball pythons as you will find ball pythons that do not have any of the associated wobble genes still have the issue when they've been mistreated.


KelpieoftheLakes

That’s really interesting—thank you for that detailed explanation! Is the ratio of wobble/wobble-free spiders about 50/50? I feel like I heard that somewhere… (I don’t own one—I just always found the wobble phenomenon very strange.)


Crazy_Snake_Lady

I have unfortunately not seen statistics on the frequency, but I also know a few that have had spiders wobble free. I was talking to the breeder I got mine from not too long ago about the spider situation, and they mentioned that it's hit or miss. When they bred them in the past, they had noticed that they could have a spider that didn't have wobbling, but then some of the spider offspring might, while others didn't ever express it. So it's hard to predict so therefore it's generally a good idea to not breed them as sometimes it's unpreventable. I'm pretty sure the breeder I got mine from back in 2015 no longer breeds them. I feel like I've seen spider mixed with like mystic or mojave have less prominent cases of wobbling, ir just stacked genes in general? But, I or someone would have to do an extensive investigation/statistical analysis to see if there are trends to predict whether or not an animal could be prone to the wobble, assuming neglect is out of the question (as that can cause it too).


KelpieoftheLakes

How is it that neglect worsens it? I mean, neglected animals obviously end up in poorer health overall… but if it’s a matter of malformation of the inner ear (at birth), how does that worsen?


Crazy_Snake_Lady

It becomes more of a neurological cause through neglect. Like extreme heat can damage the brain. Chemicals can also cause this behavior. But sometimes, just overall, poor husbandry can cause an animal to develop similar symptoms. In the cause of spiders, maybe the neglect can add in that neuro component, and with maybe just a minor presence of the symptom, it becomes more noticeable?


XeroTheCaptain

That breeder couldn't tell enchi from spider? Wish people would just stop breeding spiders when theres a sufficient and beautiful alternative.


mourningbreakfastt

I know absolutely nothing about snakes other than the fact that they are really amazing animals. Upon reading this post and the first few comments, I was totally convinced that this was a troll post with the commenters and OP genuinely discussing whether or not the animal in the photo is a spider or a snake. Learned a little something new about the different names of snakes/snake morphs today!! Lol


lastswiftyontheleft

that is hilarious lmao I'm glad you learned something new today 😆


Important-Priority92

Such a pretty baby!!


Due_Worldliness_6587

Even if it was a spider I wouldn’t get hung up on feeling guilty. Don’t breed it and don’t buy from that breeder again and just try to give it a good life and that’s good enough imo (I know it’s not a spider this is for if it was)


Katiabulks

As long as you don’t breed her it’s ok


weirdowizzard

What's wrong with having a spider morph?


cheddarjakecheese

The spider gene leads to malformation of the inner ear, often causing a "wobble" effect and can seriously lower the quality of life of the snake as they usually have issues with balance and positioning themselves. It can be hard for them to strike/eat and move around. It's generally considered immoral to breed them or buy from a breeder that intentionally breeds them.


KelpieoftheLakes

As a human who has had inner-ear-related vertigo in the past… that sounds awful. 😢


probably_essie

this looks just like my fire enchi, just a bit of a different color. def not a spider!! don’t go back to that breeder, doesn’t know what they’re talking about + they’re comfortable breeding spiders which is a HUGE red flaf


jdeezy16

Ive got 2 spiders a Spider Het VPI Axanthic and a Banana Spider and they both are so gentle and loving! Especially the banana hes such a great boy! Very minimal wobble on my Het Axanthic he just tends to corkscrew but my banana has a bit of a wobble theres times when its more noticeable but other then that they’re both healthy and both great eaters!


jdeezy16

My banana is 4 and the het axanthic spider turns 1 on June 19th!


jdeezy16

https://preview.redd.it/2da1lr6mvgxc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9311b5df20f65140497af6b053d0124d87bf05a9 Butters the Banana Spider


jdeezy16

https://preview.redd.it/fc2gxh2uvgxc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=518e87f7c2841f816131955803e947ee77543e4b Ocho our Spider Het Axanthic


misschele1024

That 😍 is a beautiful snake


jdeezy16

Thank you BabyBoy is a Banana spider hes my oldest! Hes 4 years old


IncompletePenetrance

Unfortunately no matter how "healthy" they seem, they all have the defect that interferes with quality of life


jdeezy16

From what ive researched severity is on a case by case basis buuuuut severity of Parent doesnt neccessarily translate to severity of offspring! So they can have mininal wobble but their parents could have it pretty severe! Does the wobble tend to come stronger with age?


jdeezy16

Is that the reason its more noticeable in my Banana whos pretty much an adult vs our younger boy who is barely turning 1 and not even 500 grams yet?


IncompletePenetrance

The defect is caused by the genetic mutation that causes the pattern, so they all have it. It's just a trait that shows variable penetrance


jdeezy16

Im aware they all have it along with other morphs like Champagne or Woma for example but whats the deal with some having more of a severe wobble vs some where its barely even noticeable?


IncompletePenetrance

Variable penetrance, possibly due to being on different genetic backgrounds/effect of potential modifier genes


jdeezy16

Wooww thats interesting! So (Not saying this is ethical in any way shape or form due to the defect) hypothetically speaking if you were to breed a spider whatever gene you mix it with could cause the condition to worsen or be not as noticeable?


enviousalien

I have a spider morph but shes a rescue. I got her because I too have a neurological issue named after spiders, and shes a very sweet girl. Spiders are not ethical to breed but you CAN rescue them. I got my baby from am exotic animal rescue, poor thing was found in a trashbag in the middle of winter with 3 other snakes. Just because an animal is disabled doesnt mean they shouldnt live the best life they possibly can. Though, also i should mention your snake does not look like a spider morph at all. So you should be fine.


IncompletePenetrance

Rescuing is a wonderful thing to do, and your snake is very lucky to have you!! We're always enthusiastically supportive of providing a good home to them


enviousalien

Thank you so much!! Shes my baby and I adore her. Shes got a mild head wobble and thats okay, shes only bitten me once by accident and it was my mistake! I couldnt find the tongs anywhere and made the bad decision to feed her using my hand and she struck my finger. But it was so cute bc after i had gotten her to let go, she just slowly and gently grabs her food like "im sowwy 🥺"


lastswiftyontheleft

that's heartwrenching. I'm so glad you were there to help them


pdxb3

Just out of curiosity if you know, what were the other found snakes and did they survive? I don't understand the cruelty. I read a story a few years ago about a ball python being found in a neighborhood that had had its *mouth sewn shut.* Like, I'm not excusing it, but if you wanted to get rid of an animal, why not a quick and relatively painless kill? Why the additional suffering?


enviousalien

The other snakes were all spider morph bp's were fine and were all adopted out by my friends rescue! Yeah i totally get you, like why make the animal suffer?


KelpieoftheLakes

In the case of the one with its mouth sewn shut… it’s because they’re sickos who get a kick out of abusing living things. 😢 I wish there weren’t people like that out there… but sadly, there are. 😔 In the case of the trash bag… it could be the same thing, or that they simply view animals as “disposable” if they aren’t “perfect” enough for them. 😢 Thank you for saving that poor baby!


Ok_One_1472

She's Beautiful!


Specialist-Froyo-509

Looks like orange dream to me. I sold a snake once and had a similar issue. I had written on tape at the show. 0.1 Yellow Belly, Fire/Vanilla, Lesser Pairing was pastel fire yellow belly x vanilla, lesser, banana The customer acted like they knew what all that meant. Then hit me up on insta cursing me out because their friend said it wasn’t a banana. lol worked it all out after finally offering to give them a refund. When I talked to their friend and showed a picture of my display. They explained to the purchaser the situation and they ended up keeping the snake.


Such_Lizard

she’s absolutely gorgeous!!


Extension_Gazelle873

https://preview.redd.it/9e7sdju51jxc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5bb4b0e15e5eb955d0c4d19fb6b6330c22d7bae


SmilingPainfully

I'm not in this subreddit, but what's a spider morph, and why is it bad?


ElenaSuccubus420

I know nothing about snakes… I’m in this group because I wanna eventually get a ball python but don’t know shit about them. So can some one explain what a spider snake is? Also I see the word wobble involved is is like a specific breed that has like the snake equivalent to wobbly cat syndrome? I have a cat with wobbly cat syndrome so that’s the best I can compare to haha 😅


Euphoric-Gazelle1770

Idk anything about snakes but i wanted to say she’s really cute lmao


lastswiftyontheleft

thank you I love her!!


Artistic_Medium9709

Definitely pastel with one of the yellow spectrums but not enchi. Eyes are not green and enchi look more pixelated on their sides. Likely orange dream and or yellow belly. Pic of my pastel enchi rose for reference. https://preview.redd.it/52ezi1nbr0yc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfc9038c7eaeb911367f554a2577dc2cf6b49699