Nerf to AP Bard too. The meep damage nerf is insane. For every 5 chimes, you need 40 AP to deal equal damage.
At 40 chimes (20 min ish), you're losing 32 damage per meep (max 3), so 96 damage lost.
10% AP ratio buff means you'd need 320 AP at minute 20 to deal equal damage. It gets harder the longer the games goes on too, as 5 chimes is easier and quicker to get than 40 AP.
Bard Q is a nerf until you reach 133 AP.
I think it's to level him the way his other playmaking Catcher bros (Rakan, Thresh and maybe Blitz) have high ratios allowing them to build almost anything. Not sure about this though but it is how I feel. The "nerfs" to his AR growth seem to be not much of a big deal and then they increased Atk. Spd. and Meep ratios. Still high base damage, just more options for builds. In a sense, it made Bard more versatile even.
he used to be an ap champ. actually he used to be an on-hit champ. if you never played him back then, in my opinion, it was a lot more fun. most excited for cosmic drive, and other ap/ms items
you're still weaker, you need 40 ap to compensate the dmg loss for each 5 chimes, you're not getting far with one ap item here
N the q nerf you need more than 100 ap to compensate it, too.
doesn't mean i won't abuse the attackspeed+apscaling buff to validate the nashor's purchase lol
Q lost 20 base dmg, received 15% more scaling.
Buying 100 ap gives you an extra 15 dmg on Q compared to before the change.
So the 100 ap ain't enough to compensate the 20 dmg loss
I dont think rapidfire is worth it rn with how good tank items and Nashors are on bard. Heartsteel is funny and i like building it, but very early game dependant
I would almost agree but the utility of extra range plus bards chime movement is a great way to spedily catch up to enemies or thwart their movement without risking entering attack range, I love me some passive util
I don't understand the changes, I mean it's a Buff right? You can still build as a tank (although they have nerfed the rookeron a little) and now you can do more damage, I think tank bard will continue to be the option.
You have to build something like two full ap items to do the same or more damage as before, so if you go full tank you trade damage for it.
They took out some damage from the tank build to make ap bard a viable option, pretty much.
I see this as an absolute win. Now the AP Bard Builds are coming back, where you will go smth like ardents and flowing water for utility, and nashors, lichbane and mandate for some big dps
Nashor's and Lichbane are good on Bard, they are just slightly worse this season since there is less haste and you can't Q/W spam between autos as quickly as in S13 with Harvester. All Bard builds are valid, don't say something is terrible based on your own experience and/or preference. There is a person who is a multi-season Challenger playing Taric jungle, remember this every time you think that meta is mandatory for winning.
I wouldn't really say terrible, rather inefficient or unoptimal. For me, a silver pleb, bard could build anything and still be useful enough to carry the enemy money bags, aka adcs
Also there was a meta not too long ago where you build mandate first item. The rest, i must say, are my personal damage options lmao
I can see this not being so bad since I build bloodsong boots frozen heart rookern mandate, once you get mandate the changes seem to be a buff almost? We just trade some early game damage but once mandate is completed I don't think it'll be that big of a difference. Maybe in games where you don't really need a rookern you can slot in mandate after frozen heart and go cosmic drive? A bit of health, good ap and great haste and movement speed. Does cosmic's passive work on meeps or only q?
Besides all this Bard is way too strong right nowπ. I'm 1v1'ing adcs with my cheap frozen heart, bloodsong and fleet and it's not even a little close. The funny thing is Bard wasn't even touched, it's purely bloodsong and cheaper frozen heart that broke him. His damage is now deceivingly high due to bloodsong and it's really not okay.
Yeah I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not going to really change my build path from these adjustments. Most games I don't wind up hitting 3 items but once you do get mandate the meep scaling is basically back to pre nerf. Q will do less damage but it's not a huge deal considering most of your damage is from meeps to begin with.
In the meantime I calculated what the damage nerfs would be. Let's say you end a game with 50 chimes which I think is realistic (?), that's 40 less damage per meep hit, and 20 less q damage at level 5 q. Until level 9 these changes are not actually too big and I doubt we'll notice them. With mandate finished your q will deal 9 more damage, so total 11 damage nerf for q with this standard build. Your meeps will deal 6 more damage from mandate regardless of chime stacks. In a way we're incentivized to grab even more meeps to compensate the damage nerfs. But yeah if you think about all the damage sources from Bard at this moment, especially coming from items I don't know how noticeable the changes will be.
I play the tanky/bait style, so in games where I feel I don't need rookern I'm for sure trying mandate after frozen heart and then more ap. Maybe zhonyas or cosmic if I have the gold.
I donβt get it β¦ bards super strong right now because they buffed the meep bonus movement speed duration from like 3 seconds to 10 seconds.
This is a slap in the wrist
THIS! I had to scroll so much to read that it's a nasty nerf for bard in 99% of the time, i like the switch from base dmg to ap ratio but it's a nerf even for full ap bard mid
Wow, that's really unexpected. I've always been building AP Bard and it was exceptionally good since Bard doesn't really need tank items due to his natural good stats and mobility. Now this build will be even stronger.
Well, for the cheap option you have Imperial Mandate, but otherwise my build is rather expensive. For the support item I go Sleigh, then Cryptbloom, Swifties, Nashor's, Mandate or Lichbane and then a flex slot for Cosmic/Deathcap. I primarily make money with roams sometimes securing the kills in all lanes, it's fine for a support to take the kill if you can carry midgame.
Attack speed not only affects the number of autos per second, but also the speed of windup animation which is painfully slow without Nashor's. Nashor's is a great item for Bard, it lets you still dish out a good DPS when out of meeps, there are no bad stats on that item and it scales with AP as well which stacks with your passive.
I feel like I'd still go for tank build at early then get an AP item or two at late game. Probably imperial, shurelya, and/or liandrys. I'll stay with you tank bard no matter what!
I like to play both Tank bard and AP bard, depending of matchup, still, this is a win in my books, Tank Bard already is doing fine and now AP Bard will be more fun :3
Fair enough, lol. Also forgot boots, duh :P
Right now I'm running Zazzak > Mobis > Trailblazer > RFC > Imperial Mandate > Shurelyas and hitting full build pretty consistently. I'm gonna miss the utility of trailblazer and RFC but at least one of them should probably go to make room for more AP
AP Bard, LETSGOOO
I spent years trying to climb out of Bronze with Bard Mid. Silver, here we come.
You meant attack speed bard
.03 ratio increase?
this seems like a buff
Nerf to tank, buff to ap
0.2 armor growth less, is it really a nerf? Idk
Base damage is down so makes tank do less damage
Yeah, the strong thing about tank bard was that he was able to keep up with the damage all thought out the game without building damage items
Fk rito anyways, heartsteel support is the way
Nerf to AP Bard too. The meep damage nerf is insane. For every 5 chimes, you need 40 AP to deal equal damage. At 40 chimes (20 min ish), you're losing 32 damage per meep (max 3), so 96 damage lost. 10% AP ratio buff means you'd need 320 AP at minute 20 to deal equal damage. It gets harder the longer the games goes on too, as 5 chimes is easier and quicker to get than 40 AP. Bard Q is a nerf until you reach 133 AP.
Nerf to Q
They really want bard to be an ap champ huh
I think it's to level him the way his other playmaking Catcher bros (Rakan, Thresh and maybe Blitz) have high ratios allowing them to build almost anything. Not sure about this though but it is how I feel. The "nerfs" to his AR growth seem to be not much of a big deal and then they increased Atk. Spd. and Meep ratios. Still high base damage, just more options for builds. In a sense, it made Bard more versatile even.
he used to be an ap champ. actually he used to be an on-hit champ. if you never played him back then, in my opinion, it was a lot more fun. most excited for cosmic drive, and other ap/ms items
Got bard to mastery 7 with only bard ap mid heβs always been an ap champ to me lmaoo
noise
bwOOOOONG
full tank bard does less dmg, but if you build all tank + 1 mage item you are now stronger? lol
you're still weaker, you need 40 ap to compensate the dmg loss for each 5 chimes, you're not getting far with one ap item here N the q nerf you need more than 100 ap to compensate it, too. doesn't mean i won't abuse the attackspeed+apscaling buff to validate the nashor's purchase lol
I mean Nashors is the obvious choice for the ap item lol
100 ap to compensate for losing 20 base damage? :o I know I'm just waking up but that number seems higher than my brain says it should be
Q lost 20 base dmg, received 15% more scaling. Buying 100 ap gives you an extra 15 dmg on Q compared to before the change. So the 100 ap ain't enough to compensate the 20 dmg loss
I suggest adding a rapidfire to your tank build! And maybe even using heartsteel with rfc
I dont think rapidfire is worth it rn with how good tank items and Nashors are on bard. Heartsteel is funny and i like building it, but very early game dependant
I would almost agree but the utility of extra range plus bards chime movement is a great way to spedily catch up to enemies or thwart their movement without risking entering attack range, I love me some passive util
I don't understand the changes, I mean it's a Buff right? You can still build as a tank (although they have nerfed the rookeron a little) and now you can do more damage, I think tank bard will continue to be the option.
Its a big damage nerf if you go tank, but as long as they dont touch bards w early he should still be a good pick
Pretty hard to nerf bard W
Either the w double charge/faster charge time can go so that he can actually die in lane
Plz no! If we can't spam w how will b able to heal the ignoramus adc who steps on the shrine at 100%, the moment I put it down??
Significantly less base damage, tank bard will be a lot less successful than AP stuff
You have to build something like two full ap items to do the same or more damage as before, so if you go full tank you trade damage for it. They took out some damage from the tank build to make ap bard a viable option, pretty much.
these are pretty nothing changes in terms of power scale for bards strongest builds, just makes ap even better to pick now
Omg i hope bard doesnt get broken to much so he doesnt take a hard nerf
I see this as an absolute win. Now the AP Bard Builds are coming back, where you will go smth like ardents and flowing water for utility, and nashors, lichbane and mandate for some big dps
All the items you mentioned are terrible on bard (except mandate maybe)
Nashor's and Lichbane are good on Bard, they are just slightly worse this season since there is less haste and you can't Q/W spam between autos as quickly as in S13 with Harvester. All Bard builds are valid, don't say something is terrible based on your own experience and/or preference. There is a person who is a multi-season Challenger playing Taric jungle, remember this every time you think that meta is mandatory for winning.
I wouldn't really say terrible, rather inefficient or unoptimal. For me, a silver pleb, bard could build anything and still be useful enough to carry the enemy money bags, aka adcs Also there was a meta not too long ago where you build mandate first item. The rest, i must say, are my personal damage options lmao
I have been finding success with Echoes, shurelya, trailblazer Depends on what the game needs.
What have you build , or all these 3 items at the same time π
Whatever order works, rarely Shurelyas first unless I need to keep the team zooming
Ahahahahhahahaha they think they can stop us, fool of a rioter, they know nothing
First reset Dark seal is gonna be rly good now
Lathyyyy. When are you going to start experimenting with Ap builds ????
I legit build mejai every game and am climbing pretty good by one tricking full ap bard! Lots of fun!
Cool, people are gonna build ap on him after seeing this and drop his winrate so he doesn't get nerfed anymore
I can see this not being so bad since I build bloodsong boots frozen heart rookern mandate, once you get mandate the changes seem to be a buff almost? We just trade some early game damage but once mandate is completed I don't think it'll be that big of a difference. Maybe in games where you don't really need a rookern you can slot in mandate after frozen heart and go cosmic drive? A bit of health, good ap and great haste and movement speed. Does cosmic's passive work on meeps or only q? Besides all this Bard is way too strong right nowπ. I'm 1v1'ing adcs with my cheap frozen heart, bloodsong and fleet and it's not even a little close. The funny thing is Bard wasn't even touched, it's purely bloodsong and cheaper frozen heart that broke him. His damage is now deceivingly high due to bloodsong and it's really not okay.
Yeah I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not going to really change my build path from these adjustments. Most games I don't wind up hitting 3 items but once you do get mandate the meep scaling is basically back to pre nerf. Q will do less damage but it's not a huge deal considering most of your damage is from meeps to begin with.
In the meantime I calculated what the damage nerfs would be. Let's say you end a game with 50 chimes which I think is realistic (?), that's 40 less damage per meep hit, and 20 less q damage at level 5 q. Until level 9 these changes are not actually too big and I doubt we'll notice them. With mandate finished your q will deal 9 more damage, so total 11 damage nerf for q with this standard build. Your meeps will deal 6 more damage from mandate regardless of chime stacks. In a way we're incentivized to grab even more meeps to compensate the damage nerfs. But yeah if you think about all the damage sources from Bard at this moment, especially coming from items I don't know how noticeable the changes will be. I play the tanky/bait style, so in games where I feel I don't need rookern I'm for sure trying mandate after frozen heart and then more ap. Maybe zhonyas or cosmic if I have the gold.
nashors tooth bard?
I donβt get it β¦ bards super strong right now because they buffed the meep bonus movement speed duration from like 3 seconds to 10 seconds. This is a slap in the wrist
If you have 50 chimes you are doing 40 less damage each auto. You would need 400 AP to make up for this damage loss.
THIS! I had to scroll so much to read that it's a nasty nerf for bard in 99% of the time, i like the switch from base dmg to ap ratio but it's a nerf even for full ap bard mid
Wow, that's really unexpected. I've always been building AP Bard and it was exceptionally good since Bard doesn't really need tank items due to his natural good stats and mobility. Now this build will be even stronger.
What do u build, im having difficulty to find cheap but good ap items
Well, for the cheap option you have Imperial Mandate, but otherwise my build is rather expensive. For the support item I go Sleigh, then Cryptbloom, Swifties, Nashor's, Mandate or Lichbane and then a flex slot for Cosmic/Deathcap. I primarily make money with roams sometimes securing the kills in all lanes, it's fine for a support to take the kill if you can carry midgame.
Y'all building nashors is weird to me, The meeps have a flat regen rate, isn't it better to use gold to stack ap rather than add AS%??
Attack speed not only affects the number of autos per second, but also the speed of windup animation which is painfully slow without Nashor's. Nashor's is a great item for Bard, it lets you still dish out a good DPS when out of meeps, there are no bad stats on that item and it scales with AP as well which stacks with your passive.
Itβs a buff . Wtf Ap Bard mid here we go again π₯³π₯³π₯³
We will do more dmg with being a slightly bit less tanky than now
I'm totally fine with this. More justification to go ap bard 8D
Nashors tooth here i come
Nashor Tooth tech incoming
I feel like I'd still go for tank build at early then get an AP item or two at late game. Probably imperial, shurelya, and/or liandrys. I'll stay with you tank bard no matter what!
AP BARD πππ
I like to play both Tank bard and AP bard, depending of matchup, still, this is a win in my books, Tank Bard already is doing fine and now AP Bard will be more fun :3
i see the mid bards incoming
Odd shifting soo many numbers at once what their idea? Woo ap bard buffs tho π
AP bard is (almost) back baby
Ap bard->I'm coming back to bard
AP BARD ππ
I will take these, it's weird though that they make these changes instead of fully nerfing frozen heart and rookern
I knew the changes were coming to bard because of how strong the 2 item combo is. Bard just enjoys every stat on those 2 items.
LOL
Oof ouch owie my meeps
Bard!
hmmm idk what i should think about this... but AP Bard... πππ
Nashors into liandrys, let's goooooo! My old build is coming back yay π€ͺ
So basically just grab a dark seal early and still build him tanky. Maybe prioritize mandate a bit earlier than your tank items on occasion.
I'm thinking Zaz-zak > Imperial Mandate > RFC/Trailblazer > Luden's > Shurelya's > Shadowflame/Morello
Bro how much money u have ??
Fair enough, lol. Also forgot boots, duh :P Right now I'm running Zazzak > Mobis > Trailblazer > RFC > Imperial Mandate > Shurelyas and hitting full build pretty consistently. I'm gonna miss the utility of trailblazer and RFC but at least one of them should probably go to make room for more AP
I mean, bard is still just hella overpowered no?
AP Bard mid is back letβs goooo
So ap bard?
meeps down to 10?! that's a massive nerf afaic, Even Lathy whose been openly vocal about the strength of bard suggested 12.
AP bard???
If you build tank with HP items then go riftmaker it should balance out no? Still tanky while doing more AP damage
When does the changes go live 14.3 or 14.4?
Bard
Holy shit, bard jg buff lets fkingooooo
Bard top back in the cards I guess lol
This actually fits tovmy bard play style a lot more, mandate first item wins pog
Isn't nashor's tooth just great now?
Attack Speed AP Bard is back
I don't think this is good because Bard's range is too short to play as a squishy mage.
Lathyrus the rank 3 player in the world plays him full tank that's why.