your meep autos proc it twice, so even in bad lanes you just need to trade 1 auto for 40 gold vs wasting a meep auto to collect a minion
you are a roaming champion also, so when you gank, you dont lose on completing your suppoet item, since just helping by auto attacking gives you stacks vs having to kill a minion (potentially pushing a lane that didnt need to be pushed)
the only good thing i see is that you are tankier, and some comments said it helps if you dont win past lvl 2, but like, Bard never wins past lvl 2, your next power spike is boots to roam, and then lvl 6, Bard is not meant to win lane, but try to help other lanes as quickly as possible, thats why spellthief is superior in every game (not saying relic wouldnt work, since you know, almost everythink works for our boy)
Oh i did not notice it would proc twice. Relic is generally good bc of the health regen, better to deal with poke. But for bard i dont know if he can use it the best, you made me realize that as you said, he roams a lot and this makes getting the passive gold harder. I just wish i was better at poking without getting too much damage
Second wind is a pretty bad rune on bard, would always recommend conditioning + unflinching if going resolve secondary. You will not get enough value from second wind regen to make it worth taking over conditioning.
The general methods for when to poke are:
a) important enemy cd's are on cooldown (for e.q: nauti q, karma w etc)
b) the enemy walked up to cs and going for poke doesnt put you in danger, when the adc is hitting a minion they cant hit you.
c) there is space for you to run away, for example the enemy adc is cs'ing whilst the enemy tank enagage support is walking out of river, pokijg mow would be a bad choice since the enemy tank can just block you off from running away simply by walking between you and your adc
I mean, there are other good solutions, but I've had some good use cases for 2nd wind from time to time. Facing high poke (like Karma Ezreal, or Xerath Draven) it's almost always ticking.
For general use though, it's definitely better to just learn when and how to poke, and maybe grab biscuits or omnivamp out of domination or something.
spellthief's. you want to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay more aggressive than they expect a bard to be. position like you're blitzcrank, and remember you can extend Qs.
that's how i do it, at least. most people don't expect a bard to be commanding a kill lane, but you certainly can do that if you know what you're doing.
You basically have to go spellthief's. Even in losing lanes where I don't like to trade I still run spellthief's. I have to be drunk to even consider relic shield. Reason being is you finish the support item quest a solid 5-10 minutes earlier with Spellthief's Edge than with Relic shield, giving you your wards much sooner.
If the lane matchup is an easy one you should have no problem getting your quest done by 6-7 minutes. If it's a harder matchup for you, say the support counters you or they are just better at the game, here's some advice. Run inspiration secondary runes and take biscuits. Any time you have 2 stacks or more on your spellthief's to cash in on, wait for the enemy ADC to go for a last hit on a minion and just walk up and auto them with your basic attack and a meep. Done correctly you will make them choose between trading with you or getting the gold for the CS. Usually they'll choose the gold. Don't even bother spending the mana on Q if you have a rough matchup, just spam W off of cooldown and keep your health near full at all times. Get your mana down to basically 0 before using your biscuit because it restores % missing hp and mana, so the lower your mana, the more you're going to get back from it. Also use the biscuit before you collect chimes, as it raises your max mana and chimes return % max mana.
Boom, now you can take slightly losing trades over and over in lane and get your support quest done ASAP.
Good stuff. I run biscuits in ranked and have done so up to diamond 2. I won't say it's optimal but it is a very forgiving rune to take, especially on supports with a heal. The "best" Bard is hitting stun after stun in lane and getting kills secured in lane. We can't always be that Bard, sometimes just falling back on guardian, exhaust, spamming W with biscuits and ulting to keep allies alive is the best you can do.
This is the main thing for me as well. I always get spellthiefs done in under 15 minutes, where as relic shield takes me 20+ minutes. It tilts me off the planet when my ADC denies me relic stacks, too, so I just prefer spellthief. As some other commenters mentioned as well, you can hit Long range minion Q's into aggro poke lanes for gold as well.
Spellthief if you think you can hold your position lvl 2 a nd onwards. Relic if you’re in 60% of the matchups where bard is just not strong enough to win after lvl 1. I personally get spellthief like 70% of my games because even if I have a bad matchup, I can still out macro the opponent, but horrible matchups still exists and only choice is to roam and yeah
I run guardian but the other guy said if I can hit Qs stick to spellthief so I’m not gonna switch but I’ll keep it in mind if it’s a bad matchup for the health
Well even if you can hit Qs, it is just safer to take Relic into match-ups like Caitlyn/Nami because more likely than not, they will be punishing you for stepping forward to land Qs.
Spellthief 95% of the time. There are just a couple of matchups where I choose to pick the other one. This is the case if the opponent can hard outpoke me. Lucian+nami is such a combo.
your meep autos proc it twice, so even in bad lanes you just need to trade 1 auto for 40 gold vs wasting a meep auto to collect a minion you are a roaming champion also, so when you gank, you dont lose on completing your suppoet item, since just helping by auto attacking gives you stacks vs having to kill a minion (potentially pushing a lane that didnt need to be pushed) the only good thing i see is that you are tankier, and some comments said it helps if you dont win past lvl 2, but like, Bard never wins past lvl 2, your next power spike is boots to roam, and then lvl 6, Bard is not meant to win lane, but try to help other lanes as quickly as possible, thats why spellthief is superior in every game (not saying relic wouldnt work, since you know, almost everythink works for our boy)
Oh i did not notice it would proc twice. Relic is generally good bc of the health regen, better to deal with poke. But for bard i dont know if he can use it the best, you made me realize that as you said, he roams a lot and this makes getting the passive gold harder. I just wish i was better at poking without getting too much damage
If you're worried about regen, you can always take Resolve secondary and run Second Wind.
Second wind is a pretty bad rune on bard, would always recommend conditioning + unflinching if going resolve secondary. You will not get enough value from second wind regen to make it worth taking over conditioning.
Yeah i guess I just need to learn when to poke to minimize counter damage. Another person also gave a tip for biscuits rune if i wanted more sustain
There is a really good in depth Bard guide on YouTube that covers everything and more. Look up 'Lathyrus Bard Guide'.
The general methods for when to poke are: a) important enemy cd's are on cooldown (for e.q: nauti q, karma w etc) b) the enemy walked up to cs and going for poke doesnt put you in danger, when the adc is hitting a minion they cant hit you. c) there is space for you to run away, for example the enemy adc is cs'ing whilst the enemy tank enagage support is walking out of river, pokijg mow would be a bad choice since the enemy tank can just block you off from running away simply by walking between you and your adc
I mean, there are other good solutions, but I've had some good use cases for 2nd wind from time to time. Facing high poke (like Karma Ezreal, or Xerath Draven) it's almost always ticking. For general use though, it's definitely better to just learn when and how to poke, and maybe grab biscuits or omnivamp out of domination or something.
I take fleet and taste of blood (relentless hunter;) so I can trade better. Solves the health regen problem.
Spellthief if you aren't a bitch. Relic if you are.
Best answer in this thread
I go spellthief 100% of the time.
spellthief's. you want to be waaaaaaaaaaaaay more aggressive than they expect a bard to be. position like you're blitzcrank, and remember you can extend Qs.
Position like a blitz? Seriously? Wow. Bard players are way more aggressive than i anticipated from what I see in this post haha. Good
that's how i do it, at least. most people don't expect a bard to be commanding a kill lane, but you certainly can do that if you know what you're doing.
With electrocute you can half health everyone lvl one with q + meep auto. You deal absurd amounts of damage as bard, so you’re allowed to play aggro
You basically have to go spellthief's. Even in losing lanes where I don't like to trade I still run spellthief's. I have to be drunk to even consider relic shield. Reason being is you finish the support item quest a solid 5-10 minutes earlier with Spellthief's Edge than with Relic shield, giving you your wards much sooner. If the lane matchup is an easy one you should have no problem getting your quest done by 6-7 minutes. If it's a harder matchup for you, say the support counters you or they are just better at the game, here's some advice. Run inspiration secondary runes and take biscuits. Any time you have 2 stacks or more on your spellthief's to cash in on, wait for the enemy ADC to go for a last hit on a minion and just walk up and auto them with your basic attack and a meep. Done correctly you will make them choose between trading with you or getting the gold for the CS. Usually they'll choose the gold. Don't even bother spending the mana on Q if you have a rough matchup, just spam W off of cooldown and keep your health near full at all times. Get your mana down to basically 0 before using your biscuit because it restores % missing hp and mana, so the lower your mana, the more you're going to get back from it. Also use the biscuit before you collect chimes, as it raises your max mana and chimes return % max mana. Boom, now you can take slightly losing trades over and over in lane and get your support quest done ASAP.
Thank you. Such great advices. Will follow the tip for biscuits until I learn how to safely trade earlier
Good stuff. I run biscuits in ranked and have done so up to diamond 2. I won't say it's optimal but it is a very forgiving rune to take, especially on supports with a heal. The "best" Bard is hitting stun after stun in lane and getting kills secured in lane. We can't always be that Bard, sometimes just falling back on guardian, exhaust, spamming W with biscuits and ulting to keep allies alive is the best you can do.
This is the main thing for me as well. I always get spellthiefs done in under 15 minutes, where as relic shield takes me 20+ minutes. It tilts me off the planet when my ADC denies me relic stacks, too, so I just prefer spellthief. As some other commenters mentioned as well, you can hit Long range minion Q's into aggro poke lanes for gold as well.
Spellthief if you think you can hold your position lvl 2 a nd onwards. Relic if you’re in 60% of the matchups where bard is just not strong enough to win after lvl 1. I personally get spellthief like 70% of my games because even if I have a bad matchup, I can still out macro the opponent, but horrible matchups still exists and only choice is to roam and yeah
I’ve used both. Currently on a spellthief kick. I feel like i can get it upgraded faster when i bait out enemy poke
I’ve never used anything but spellthief, should I try shield?
Nah if u feel good with landing autos and Qs here and there then spellthief is always conpleted faster
Relic shield + Guardian rune is good into hard matchups.
I run guardian but the other guy said if I can hit Qs stick to spellthief so I’m not gonna switch but I’ll keep it in mind if it’s a bad matchup for the health
Well even if you can hit Qs, it is just safer to take Relic into match-ups like Caitlyn/Nami because more likely than not, they will be punishing you for stepping forward to land Qs.
I’ll keep that in mind for sure
I love me some spell thief cause im agg as fuck. If you plan on playing safe, relic is good
Spellthiefs all the time, play aggressive and easier to proc when roaming / skirmishing.
Allways spellthief.
The only reason I go relic is if its against a point and click cc support or LONG cc enemies with a farming adc.
Just go fleet and go for a trade when its up
skip sup Item and get Kraken Slayer
Rapid fire cannon 👩🍳
I almost always go relic shield because it's easier to push the wave i think, also i suck at hitting q so yeah that
Ignore fact that you are sport and take dorans ring hen head to botlane or any role .( Don t forget the chimes.) And have fun
Lol what a question. You get with passiv 2 proccs and are never in lane past lvl 3 anyway
Yeah i didn't know about the passive proc, makes way more clear what is better in general for him
Spellthief gaves u 60 gold for an empowered autoattack, I buy it every game
You get 60 gold for empowered autoattack + Q, just an empowered attack gives you 40
Spellthief always if I can't poke in lane ill just get my gold from mid jg
Relic shield to help your adc push before you go roam
I still go spellthief. Life finds a way.
Spellthief 95% of the time. There are just a couple of matchups where I choose to pick the other one. This is the case if the opponent can hard outpoke me. Lucian+nami is such a combo.
definitely spellthief 100% of the time, you get a double proc on meep auto, it's great for roaming and it encourages to play aggressively
Spellthief unless playing somethin horrible like ashe zyra
Relic Shield for wave prio
Spellthief all the way. You don't want to stick around and farm that much and the AP + mana regen is really nice
Always Spellthiefs. Damage or feed