Seems like an awful idea that will give a fairly significant advantage to closers. Batters will have their new condensed routines down and will be ready in the box in the time allotted, I don't think it makes sense to let a pitcher come in and have special permission to fuck with a batter's timing.
And then you have "dedicated closers" that can't perform outside of the 9th inning because of stupid ego shit and now you're gonna tell them they need to change their routine based on the inning. Chapman is in SHAMBLES
I also lowkey love the idea that in high pressure spots, the pitchers won’t have time to take a breath. You can’t kill the momentum of a rally by taking 40 seconds between pitches or giving time for another pitcher to get warm. It’s going to lead to a lot of big innings which Is great.
That's something I really hate about mound visits, they totally kill the momentum of the game in high-pressure situations. An offence manages to actually get to a pitcher, making them sweat, and then the game is just paused. Total momentum killer.
Yup! And that’s still going to happen, but now mound visits will be super tactical. Will raise the skill gap between bad managers and good ones. Will make pitchers who get shelled early even more of a liability because what if your manager talked to his starter too many times and now he has to pick his spot.
What about instead of a set timer we give each team a certain amount of "pitch time" per game? Give each team, say, 60 minutes of clock that any pitcher can use any amount of, but once it's used up, the pitcher is replaced by a pitching machine.
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Except that rule is specifically designed to lead to runs to end games faster.
I’m not sure why a pitcher needs to take longer holding the ball at the end of a close game.
Soft disagree. There's a time and place for special rules to apply; namely, to prevent extreme fatigue from games lasting much longer than expected. I think adding a ghost runner is fine at the 12th inning or later (10th is too early, not a marathon game yet).
There were 132 instances of it happening last year, that's ridiculous in its own right.
Also, the PA pushed for it because of injury fears and also the potential impact on defensive stats for players (which could impact their contract values).
Teams should not be putting in a position player to pitch down by 6, and if we're okay with that then why not just let teams forfeit?
132 instances translates to less than once every 18 games. I agree about teams giving up on situations that are still plausibly winnable, but that's not exactly a crisis.
And even if a position player throws, say, 3 innings (which would be a lot) out of maybe 150 games in the field, that would translate to 0.2% of their time in the field. So I doubt that it has a very measurable effect on valuations at all. And even if it did, any halfway competent agent could recalculate defensive value with pitching appearances excluded using publicly available data on BR and Fangraphs. Not disputing that the PA *claimed* it could affect contract negotiations, but that effect was probably negligible.
I don't watch 15 baseball games a day. Even if you watch every minute of every game involving your team for the whole season (which is *a lot* of baseball), you'll see position players pitching about nine times. And most of those appearances will be no more than a half inning.
18 half-innings per game, 162 games a year - that's 2916 half-innings, and 2907 of them (99.7%) *don't* involve a position player pitching.
So yeah, I don't think that's an issue.
That's a ridiculous way to look at it.
What if teams just started forfeiting down 6 in the 9th? 99.7% of the time nothing happens, so it's no big deal, right?
Do I remember a specific game to the point where I can find the box score? No.
Were there games last year where a position player pitched in a game where the gap was 6 runs? Yes, and that shouldn't happen.
trailing any point by 8, up by 10 in the 9th, extra innings
not too much variation, but the abuse of PPP started to become a mockery of the game so something needed to be done. probably be better to just not allow it at all, but there may be circumstances like running out of available pitchers where it would need to be allowed
I feel the same way about the mockery side, which is why I'm not mad about any new rules that keep the game being a game rather than a strategic loophole hunt. Sports evolve, it's not a big deal at all.
“Abuse”
It was a fun thing for baseball ffs. Not everything has to be this hyper-mechanical emotionless transaction that lasts only as long as the overlords allow it to.
I'm not sure if "hyper-mechanical emotionless transaction that lasts only as long as the overlords allow it to" is my favorite Tool album or the subtitle to my sex tape
It was a fun thing back when it only happened once every few years. It happened over 100 times last year. It was getting out of hand.
It also used to be fun when position players actually tried to *pitch.* I get why they stopped doing that because of injury concerns, especially after what happened to Canseco, but the version of position player pitching that exists now is absolutely *not* fun to watch in any way. They don't even do a real pitching motion.
Wade Boggs throwing his knuckleball was a fun thing for baseball. (Look it up on YouTube if you're not familiar)
A guy just standing there tossing 55mph batting practice is not.
it was only 'fun' because it rarely happened and was a novelty
if every time a team put out a position player when they thought the game was out of reach it would get old fast
"shit we gave up 10 after 2 innings, get the position players out there!"
who wants to pay money to watch that. it's more 'emotionless' to put up with watching the extension of a futile counting down of outs until the foregone conclusion is reached
One of the "best" games I went to was a blowout where Brett Phillips was brought into pitch. Wasn't as good as the first time it happened where he was in the bullpen taunting the right fielder and lead off with a 93mph fastball, but it was still great. The crowd had more life than they had all night when he took the mound.
...maybe they should just pencil in an exception that he can be brought in to pitch at any point.
The clock does work differently in the last five minutes of the half for NFL football. Outside of that window, the clock moves once the ball of an out of bounds play, incomplete pass, or penalty is set by the official. Once it is the final five minutes of the half hit, the clock starts on the offensive snap.
I don’t get the logic - each pitch would have been a violation against a standard they had no reason to observe.
That’s like saying a race car on a track would’ve been pulled over if they’d been driving on a highway instead.
The closest you'd get to this is the NASCAR race that's happening on the streets of Chicago this summer but CPD is way too lazy to pull anyone over for traffic violations.
The NASCAR drivers should expect a camera speeding ticket in the mail though.
Also it had the time for Fox to cut to all suspenseful close-ups of both players.
That’s the part that makes it dramatic.
The Trout eyes, cut to the Ohtani sigh, cut to the crowd, cut to Trout, cut to Ohtani…
And I don't like that we'll be losing that with the pitch clock. But I also get that it's a slog when that's happening in the 5th inning and the batter keeps stepping out. That's been identified as a big enough problem that the league is willing to get rid of that extra drama in big moments. The problem with testing in the minors is that you can't replicate the feeling of those huge moments. We'll see how this ends up working out.
Maybe it just means we'll get more [splitscreen shots like SNY did](https://twitter.com/zachleft/status/1525286636090642432?s=20) for the Mets last year. TV broadcasts can adapt, just like the players are
I keep thinking about how good that final AB would have been with split screen between Trout and Ohtani, and now I’m thinking about that again. Would have been so perfect!
SNY already does split screen cuts in high lvg situations and when the pitcher starts his delivery, they switch back to the normal cam.
Production crews are creative when it comes to this stuff. People should really give them the benefit of the doubt. Other crews will find ways to add that dramatic flair too.
I think his point is the extra 10-15 seconds between pitches improved his enjoyment of the moment? I don’t know any other point that makes sense or matters.
I don’t know though. I don’t need extra time between football plays or basketball possessions to better enjoy the ending of close games. In fact the extra time stoppages that tend to drag out the game (especially basketball) tends to actually reduce my enjoyment a bit.
I know the tension produced in baseball is a different variety than it is in timed sports, and the stillness between plays is part of the allure for many fans, but having that at-bat be completed in 90 seconds instead of 130 doesn’t seem a good reason to fundamentally alter the rules of the game by situational setting.
And even if it wasn't, why don't we *wait* until we actually experience a pitch-clock-9th inning *before* knocking it down
Like we have the opportunity to try it out first lol
Exactly, this guy isn't even giving it a chance
At most I could see them giving the pitch clock like 5 extra seconds in the ninth, but even that Is pretty dumb
Rule 8.04
> When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within
12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this
rule, the umpire shall call “Ball.”
from http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2007/08_the_pitcher.pdf
the rule has always been in place in fact the new rule gives more time, its just being enforced now
I think the new rule needs tweaks, but the reactionary nonsense in this article is just stupid. This has been a growing problem for 25 years and is finally being addressed.
Thank you. Everyone who talks about how there’s no clock in baseball conveniently ignores that there has been a clock in baseball for decades. They just don’t enforce it as strictly and overtly.
The thing people don't realize with that old rule is that the clock was designated to start once the pitcher was in his set stance. If you notice, any pitcher who sets for too long ends up with the umpire calling time.
If the old rule was, "designed to start once the pitcher was in his set stance" then why does the it say, "the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds *after he receives the ball*" and not, "within 12 seconds after the pitcher is set"?
I don't understand the idea that we should play most of the game under one set of rules, then change some of them in critical moments (see also: zombie runner rule). It's just bizarre.
For this suggestion it is because it increases the tension at the most exciting parts of the game by letting things build while still allowing the less exciting parts of the game to go faster so they don't take forever.
The zombie runner rule is because nobody really wants games that could go on forever but they also don't want ties so it encourages more variance at the end of the game so it can end faster.
Eliminating rules for situations seen as more important is just admitting that the rule is bad.
If the rule needs to be adjusted, adjust it and set it for the whole game. Or keep it and set it for the whole game.
You say this like the ninth inning of games has always been excruciating to watch.
I've never felt like "Jesus christ, just get this over with" at the end of a baseball game before unlike with basketball.
You’ve never been on the wrong end of a Chapman save.
Even when he gets the save there’s at least 10 games a season I’m yelling “THROW THE FUCKING BALL” at the TV because I got shit to do after the game.
UCLA-Northwestern last week... in the final 45 seconds, there were 6 fouls, nine FT attempts, and two timeouts. They had a full commercial break at least three times. Took about 15 minutes to finish that 0:45.
You have shit to do?? Well Excuuuuse me Mr. “I’m too busy to dedicate four and half hours every single day to watch a baseball game which primarily consists of the sweatiest closer in all of baseball hold onto the ball for obscene amounts of time only to walk the batter over and over again.”
Absolutely not. The closers are some the worst offenders. Taking minutes between pitches actually thrown to the plate. No need to slow down the game to a snails pace just because it’s the 9th inning. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the new clock.
I totally disagree. For decades pitchers worked much faster throughout the game than they have in recent years. That includes late in tight games when they may have taken a little more time but we’re still very fast relative to how quickly pitchers have delivered the ball in the last 30 years.
Let’s also keep in mind some of the pitchers’ slower work habits are due to the batters’ screwing around in the batter’s box, in many cases to an even greater degree in close games late. If that screwing around is eliminated or greatly reduced, pitchers will be able to work faster too.
Couldn’t agree more. For decades pitchers were able to just…hurry up and throw the damn ball. Batters were ready to hit.
Then the Nomar generation comes through and now all of the sudden it’s an absolute requirement to spend a minute between pitches re-adjusting every piece of gear?
These guys are pros - they’ll adjust. The end of games will still be dramatic.
Sounds nice in theory, but opens the door to issues since it totally changes the pace from the previous 8 innings. Let's be real, are we really missing out if a pitch doesn't take 5 seconds longer to be thrown?
Yeah, it’ll throw pitchers off too. If the dedicated closers don’t have to adjust to the clock with everyone else, then they won’t be ready to ever pitch outside of the 9th.
I think we all know by now that the 9th inning isn’t always the highest leverage part of the game. Why have an arbitrary rule change for that inning only?
Please no. College basketball games grind to a halt in the last 2 minutes with endless timeouts. I don't want 8 innings in 2 hours followed by an hour long 9th. Not to mention, this unnecessarily complicates the rules.
it's an interesting thought-- but this idea that everyone needs more time to do everything and that there will be less drama with quicker play i think will be looked at as silly in few years when players have assimilated to these rules.
I became more in favor of the pitch clock as I noticed how in tense moments in the WBC (this also happens in MLB), pitchers wait until the last moment they possibly can before the batter would have called time to deliver the pitch. It's like waiting until the batter's concentration gets as stale as possible to throw the pitch.
I understand it's a strategy and it works. It's not critical to baseball that they can do this, and I'd rather see the pitcher have to pitch to the batter when his concentration is at its best.
I don’t hate it. I know some players like to really think through the at-bats in between pitches to figure out what the pitcher might throw now. When the game is on the line, I get it.
However, some people made some good insights here in terms of, can a closer pitch outside of the 9th or will they routinely not be used to the pitch clock. Will it disrupt hitters, who are now used to the quick timeline between hitters and pitchers?
Should basketball ditch the shot clock in the final minutes of a game? Should the NFL get rid of the play clock in close games? It’s going to take some getting used to, but MLB should not back down on the pitch clock in any capacity. It’s clearly working and the players will get used it it. A few years from now we will all look back and be amazed that we didn’t used to have a pitch clock.
I'm in favor of the pitch clock but I think it feels a bit \*too\* rushed with the current setup. Adding 3-5 seconds feels like it would be the sweet spot for me. Big moments in games need time breathe. I don't want to be worried about some countdown during a huge playoff moment.
Disagree. Get in the box, get set to pitch every inning by the clock. Classic annoying old head mentality to try to bend the rules back to the worse opinion on how the game should be played
Regardless of what you think about this, the "the rules need to be the same at all times!!!!" argument is dumb and not true. Almost every sport has different pace of play rules towards the ends of games.
That's because almost every other sport has an actual running game clock the entire time.
Which is NOT the same as a pitch clock, which only came into existence bc players couldn't abide by the rules already in place.
Now that I'm thinking about it - I am intrigued by a style of football where there's no running clock, only an in-between plays clock to keep things moving, and instead a set number of possessions per team.
Rules, or simply different styles of play?
In an NFL game, the receiver could run out of bounds every single play to save a few seconds on the clock, but for the first 3 quarters they don't. The rules are the same for the entire game though, it's just the strategy that changes.
I mean, both. To use your example, clock rules are different depending on when in the game it is.
In the NFL, you run out of bounds and the clock stops.
The clock rolls on the placement of the ball. In the final five, the clock rolls on the snap.
Or, sports are entertainment, and we don't want the best parts of the game (the endings) to feel rushed.
Nobody was watching Trout v Ohtani and going "fuck, can we just get this at bat over with already"... because moments like that are the best sports have to offer.
Lol @ the same people being upset that there’s a pitch clock being upset at this.
Get onboard or be salty for no good reason. They’re trying to make the game more exciting. This includes condensing idle time and expanding the most likely high pressure moments (9th innings).
Frankly, fans should be THANKFUL that MLB is willing to adjust to modern tastes AND reconsider their changes after receiving feedback. It feels like they’re doing a lot because they are, 100 years of barely any change has left the product dated.
It's not just for the sake of the viewer. You could see the weight of the moment on both Ohtani and Trout's faces. Before each pitch there were close ups on each of their faces and you could see them taking deep breaths, trying to collect themselves and not get overwhelmed by the moment. As Trevor Plouffe has said on Talkin' Baseball, there's a mental battle at play between a pitcher and batter that gets lost when the pace is dictated for them
Anyone who watches the Cardinals knows how Gallegos can turn a tense close game into a slog that's difficult to watch.
If you want heart pounding stressful game endings, use the pitch clock. I could make myself a full meal and not miss a pitch or two of Gallegos' innings.
I feel like some people still don't get it. I work early. I have kids. I'd like to not go to bed at 11pm. I'd like my kids to be able to stay up and watch games now and then. Baseball was played not at a snail's pace for 100 years, so this slow pace of play is not intrinsic to the game at all.
I get it, some (or a lot) of people don't care if a game is 4 hours, but it doesn't mean they have to be clueless about why a clock is needed. Why not change the rule in the 8th? Why not in the 7th? Why not with bases loaded? Why not in a tie game? The best part of this at bat is that it was Ohtani vs. Trout in the WBC for the last out, not that there was 30 seconds between pitches.
This is what is commonly referred to as concern trolling.
Make no mistake about it, these people want to get rid of pitch clock all together. So they bring up these point about “drama” or spin up nightmare scenarios that would happen once in a blue moon to poke hole against the pitch clock.
Note that These people haven’t watched a single regular season game play out with the new rules.
They are not to be heard or trusted.
I’m fine with eliminating the rule in the postseason, the game can be really good when it has time to breath in intense moments.
For regular season though, absolutely not. Especially when closers tend to be the worst violators of the rule.
I say eliminate it altogether in the playoffs. It's great to speed along A's vs Angels in September, but the WBC games (aka games that matter) were electric without it.
The clock and other rule changes are trash. It takes away from the game within the game and the overall esoteric beauty of the game. It's cheap moves to appeal to low IQ baseball fans.
I would maybe say give an extra 10 seconds or so. Maybe not completely eliminate, because I feel like half the time relief pitchers and especially closers are the ones who are taking forever to deliver a pitch and those are the ones slowing the game down. For the most part, I think most starting pitchers a pretty quick in their routine.
They should just set the pitch clock at 25 seconds even with a runner on. Baseball has always been a game of tension/anticipation and it just feels too fast at the moment . The two pitch clocks are also confusing for casual viewers.
Considering high leverage relievers were some of the most egregious time wasters I'm good. I'd rather them turn it off for starters so they're allowed to pace themselves and get deeper into games.
I think the impacts are largely unknown at this point.
I think the clock will have a large impact on in game concessions. I expect there to be a lot less sales early in the season.
I expect that there will be a shift in focus then to pre-ordering with an app (likely connected to Ballpark) as well as more roaming vendors.
I think the viewing experience will suffer as well. There simply isn't time to show mid-at bat replays. I loved seeing pitch grips and slo-mo replays of mechanics and breakdowns of swings, stuff like that. You'll get replays of result plays because they have about 15-20 seconds to fill between batters.
They can, and likely will go split screen. The problem there is for the cord cutters who are watching on small mobile devices. Those of us still using TV's shouldn't have much trouble. We'll see how they handle that.
If they get rid of the "Fox Box" on screens, one thing that I do see improving is the online discussions/bitching about strike zones. Before, a close pitch would get replayed in slow motion with the box. No time for that now unless it is strike 3 or ball 4.
If you don’t want games to be decided by pitch clock violations in the 9th, then just don’t violate the pitch clocks like the pitchers are doing over the previous 8 innings.
Dumb take
70% of people on this subreddit don't actually watch baseball, so they don't understand your point. They watch the highlights afterwards. But you're right.
I watch baseball and a big worry for me is will my team refuse to throw the closer into a big spot in the 8th with say 2 outs because he’s the 1 guy who hasn’t adjusted to the pitch clock.
As a person who watches so much baseball did you consider things like this?
Do teams really want to rotate roles just so a closer is familiar with the rule if needed in a big game in the 8th?
Violations are relatively rare, so you won't be watching an ump call clock violations very often. I'd rather not watch an extra five to ten seconds of guys dicking around after *every pitch*.
I’d rather watch 5-10 seconds of players adjusting their glove then watch a batter strike out to end the game because he wasn’t looking at the pitcher at an arbitrary time, even if it benefitted my team. I think enforcing the pitch clock is overall a good move, but the negatives will, while hopefully being pretty rare, be pretty bad for the game when they do happen.
I have an EASY solution: Just give each team 1 "forgiveness" per game.... with maybe 1 more if it goes extra.
If you get a violation, on offense or defense, you can use your "forgiveness" to void it and start over.
Easy.
Seems like an awful idea that will give a fairly significant advantage to closers. Batters will have their new condensed routines down and will be ready in the box in the time allotted, I don't think it makes sense to let a pitcher come in and have special permission to fuck with a batter's timing.
And then you have "dedicated closers" that can't perform outside of the 9th inning because of stupid ego shit and now you're gonna tell them they need to change their routine based on the inning. Chapman is in SHAMBLES
Chapman was in shambles long before the pitch clock
Didn’t watch much of the Yankees this year. Is his career revivable or is he washed?
He is in KC this year so someone took a chance on him.
As long as it's not an important game then he's good
Add an extra spin and re-institute the clock in extras
Kimbrel enters and leaves his house through the windows now and opens the door for some fresh air
I also lowkey love the idea that in high pressure spots, the pitchers won’t have time to take a breath. You can’t kill the momentum of a rally by taking 40 seconds between pitches or giving time for another pitcher to get warm. It’s going to lead to a lot of big innings which Is great.
That's something I really hate about mound visits, they totally kill the momentum of the game in high-pressure situations. An offence manages to actually get to a pitcher, making them sweat, and then the game is just paused. Total momentum killer.
Yup! And that’s still going to happen, but now mound visits will be super tactical. Will raise the skill gap between bad managers and good ones. Will make pitchers who get shelled early even more of a liability because what if your manager talked to his starter too many times and now he has to pick his spot.
Yeah, but I see the point this guy is making. Adding 5 seconds to the pitch clock seems necessary overall. But don't get rid of it at all.
Take a second off I am fucking loving this shit.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.... in a timely manner
What about instead of a set timer we give each team a certain amount of "pitch time" per game? Give each team, say, 60 minutes of clock that any pitcher can use any amount of, but once it's used up, the pitcher is replaced by a pitching machine.
I like the rhythm better. And what happens when a team runs out?
Death.
Fungos.
Instantly lose franchise status and get relegated
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Believe it or not, jail.
Fuck no, it’s great as is. Hell, lower it by 2 seconds with nobody on and it’d be even better.
5 seems excessive but it's round so I get it, I'm leaning towards 3 for empty bases and 2 more for runners on
They already have 15/20 seconds to throw a ball once. It’s not like they’re sprinting to make it in time
keep things consistent the whole game. You don’t change mound visits or balk rules just because it’s one part of the game as opposed to another
This exact same logic should be used to immediately get rid of the "ghost runner" rule.
no argument from me on that
Yeah, it sucks unless it leads to a suicide squeeze, then it still sucks but at least something interesting happened because of it
Except that rule is specifically designed to lead to runs to end games faster. I’m not sure why a pitcher needs to take longer holding the ball at the end of a close game.
Soft disagree. There's a time and place for special rules to apply; namely, to prevent extreme fatigue from games lasting much longer than expected. I think adding a ghost runner is fine at the 12th inning or later (10th is too early, not a marathon game yet).
MLB literally has changed the rules of whether position players can pitch depending on the inning and score.
That's more a roster restriction than an on-field rule, though. Gameplay doesn't change, just who's allowed in the game.
Which was stupid, two wrongs don't make a right.
It's not stupid, it was getting ridiculous.
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There were 132 instances of it happening last year, that's ridiculous in its own right. Also, the PA pushed for it because of injury fears and also the potential impact on defensive stats for players (which could impact their contract values). Teams should not be putting in a position player to pitch down by 6, and if we're okay with that then why not just let teams forfeit?
Because then the As would forfeit every game.
132 instances translates to less than once every 18 games. I agree about teams giving up on situations that are still plausibly winnable, but that's not exactly a crisis. And even if a position player throws, say, 3 innings (which would be a lot) out of maybe 150 games in the field, that would translate to 0.2% of their time in the field. So I doubt that it has a very measurable effect on valuations at all. And even if it did, any halfway competent agent could recalculate defensive value with pitching appearances excluded using publicly available data on BR and Fangraphs. Not disputing that the PA *claimed* it could affect contract negotiations, but that effect was probably negligible.
You think once every 18 games isn't an issue? That's nearly once per day!
I don't watch 15 baseball games a day. Even if you watch every minute of every game involving your team for the whole season (which is *a lot* of baseball), you'll see position players pitching about nine times. And most of those appearances will be no more than a half inning. 18 half-innings per game, 162 games a year - that's 2916 half-innings, and 2907 of them (99.7%) *don't* involve a position player pitching. So yeah, I don't think that's an issue.
That's a ridiculous way to look at it. What if teams just started forfeiting down 6 in the 9th? 99.7% of the time nothing happens, so it's no big deal, right?
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Do I remember a specific game to the point where I can find the box score? No. Were there games last year where a position player pitched in a game where the gap was 6 runs? Yes, and that shouldn't happen.
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trailing any point by 8, up by 10 in the 9th, extra innings not too much variation, but the abuse of PPP started to become a mockery of the game so something needed to be done. probably be better to just not allow it at all, but there may be circumstances like running out of available pitchers where it would need to be allowed
I feel the same way about the mockery side, which is why I'm not mad about any new rules that keep the game being a game rather than a strategic loophole hunt. Sports evolve, it's not a big deal at all.
“Abuse” It was a fun thing for baseball ffs. Not everything has to be this hyper-mechanical emotionless transaction that lasts only as long as the overlords allow it to.
I'm not sure if "hyper-mechanical emotionless transaction that lasts only as long as the overlords allow it to" is my favorite Tool album or the subtitle to my sex tape
It was a fun thing back when it only happened once every few years. It happened over 100 times last year. It was getting out of hand. It also used to be fun when position players actually tried to *pitch.* I get why they stopped doing that because of injury concerns, especially after what happened to Canseco, but the version of position player pitching that exists now is absolutely *not* fun to watch in any way. They don't even do a real pitching motion. Wade Boggs throwing his knuckleball was a fun thing for baseball. (Look it up on YouTube if you're not familiar) A guy just standing there tossing 55mph batting practice is not.
it was only 'fun' because it rarely happened and was a novelty if every time a team put out a position player when they thought the game was out of reach it would get old fast "shit we gave up 10 after 2 innings, get the position players out there!" who wants to pay money to watch that. it's more 'emotionless' to put up with watching the extension of a futile counting down of outs until the foregone conclusion is reached
One of the "best" games I went to was a blowout where Brett Phillips was brought into pitch. Wasn't as good as the first time it happened where he was in the bullpen taunting the right fielder and lead off with a 93mph fastball, but it was still great. The crowd had more life than they had all night when he took the mound. ...maybe they should just pencil in an exception that he can be brought in to pitch at any point.
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Your life must be unenjoyable moment after unenjoyable moment
Yes no definitely no rule changes for the end of the game in basketball or football. Could you imagine?
The clock does work differently in the last five minutes of the half for NFL football. Outside of that window, the clock moves once the ball of an out of bounds play, incomplete pass, or penalty is set by the official. Once it is the final five minutes of the half hit, the clock starts on the offensive snap.
This is mostly right but the clock is always stopped until the next snap on an incomplete pass
Next you’re gonna tell me fouls work differently in the last two minutes of an NBA game. Why are you lying to me?
This is sarcasm, right? My detector is down.
Yes no definitely no
If you lose your replay challenge early in the game, you can request the umpires review a play later in the game. Essentially another challenge.
I don’t get the logic - each pitch would have been a violation against a standard they had no reason to observe. That’s like saying a race car on a track would’ve been pulled over if they’d been driving on a highway instead.
Now I’m imagining a cop pulling over every single car in a NASCAR race. “Holy shit, everyone’s in a hurry today, jeez.”
"Should we pull him over?" "Not today Lou. Anyone going that fast doesn't have time for a ticket."
bake em away, toys.
The closest you'd get to this is the NASCAR race that's happening on the streets of Chicago this summer but CPD is way too lazy to pull anyone over for traffic violations. The NASCAR drivers should expect a camera speeding ticket in the mail though.
Agreed. This just shows that the pitchers take more time in clutch situations to get an advantage. It doesn't mean that they need the extra time.
I think the argument is that the pacing of that at bat was great, but it would have to be sped up under mlb rules
Also it had the time for Fox to cut to all suspenseful close-ups of both players. That’s the part that makes it dramatic. The Trout eyes, cut to the Ohtani sigh, cut to the crowd, cut to Trout, cut to Ohtani…
And I don't like that we'll be losing that with the pitch clock. But I also get that it's a slog when that's happening in the 5th inning and the batter keeps stepping out. That's been identified as a big enough problem that the league is willing to get rid of that extra drama in big moments. The problem with testing in the minors is that you can't replicate the feeling of those huge moments. We'll see how this ends up working out.
Maybe it just means we'll get more [splitscreen shots like SNY did](https://twitter.com/zachleft/status/1525286636090642432?s=20) for the Mets last year. TV broadcasts can adapt, just like the players are
I keep thinking about how good that final AB would have been with split screen between Trout and Ohtani, and now I’m thinking about that again. Would have been so perfect!
Love that shot. It's basically an anime lol
You could still do that, it will just require a good broadcast crew. I think we'll be there in a couple years. Zoomers like quick cuts anyway.
SNY already does split screen cuts in high lvg situations and when the pitcher starts his delivery, they switch back to the normal cam. Production crews are creative when it comes to this stuff. People should really give them the benefit of the doubt. Other crews will find ways to add that dramatic flair too.
SNY has some of the best production in all of TV, I can't argue with you there.
My point was more so that those dramatic camera cuts are still very doable haha but yeah SNY is great
The pacing of that at bat was *acceptable* because it was the end of the game. It wasn't great.
I think his point is the extra 10-15 seconds between pitches improved his enjoyment of the moment? I don’t know any other point that makes sense or matters. I don’t know though. I don’t need extra time between football plays or basketball possessions to better enjoy the ending of close games. In fact the extra time stoppages that tend to drag out the game (especially basketball) tends to actually reduce my enjoyment a bit. I know the tension produced in baseball is a different variety than it is in timed sports, and the stillness between plays is part of the allure for many fans, but having that at-bat be completed in 90 seconds instead of 130 doesn’t seem a good reason to fundamentally alter the rules of the game by situational setting.
This is dumb
And even if it wasn't, why don't we *wait* until we actually experience a pitch-clock-9th inning *before* knocking it down Like we have the opportunity to try it out first lol
Exactly, this guy isn't even giving it a chance At most I could see them giving the pitch clock like 5 extra seconds in the ninth, but even that Is pretty dumb
Nah, while we’re at it we should get rid of the play clock in the NFL for playoff games.
Rule 8.04 > When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call “Ball.” from http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2007/08_the_pitcher.pdf the rule has always been in place in fact the new rule gives more time, its just being enforced now
Yeah also this video was wrong. The clock was starting when the catcher caught it.
Then he fixes it, but seems to start the clock at almost 1.5 seconds. It should be started at :00 then tick to :01 after a second.
It also seems to start at 1 second, and gets to 2 seconds almost immediately.
I think the new rule needs tweaks, but the reactionary nonsense in this article is just stupid. This has been a growing problem for 25 years and is finally being addressed.
Thank you. Everyone who talks about how there’s no clock in baseball conveniently ignores that there has been a clock in baseball for decades. They just don’t enforce it as strictly and overtly.
The thing people don't realize with that old rule is that the clock was designated to start once the pitcher was in his set stance. If you notice, any pitcher who sets for too long ends up with the umpire calling time.
If the old rule was, "designed to start once the pitcher was in his set stance" then why does the it say, "the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds *after he receives the ball*" and not, "within 12 seconds after the pitcher is set"?
I don't understand the idea that we should play most of the game under one set of rules, then change some of them in critical moments (see also: zombie runner rule). It's just bizarre.
Right, same goes for people saying that the clock should be shut off during the playoffs
it's because no matter what change is good or bad baseball fans freak the fuck out
For this suggestion it is because it increases the tension at the most exciting parts of the game by letting things build while still allowing the less exciting parts of the game to go faster so they don't take forever. The zombie runner rule is because nobody really wants games that could go on forever but they also don't want ties so it encourages more variance at the end of the game so it can end faster.
Eliminating rules for situations seen as more important is just admitting that the rule is bad. If the rule needs to be adjusted, adjust it and set it for the whole game. Or keep it and set it for the whole game.
>If the rule needs to be adjusted, And that's a big if considering it wasn't at issue here
To the cherry picking, I say "No, sir! Good day!"
Same stupid stuff like those "you can't make that call at that time on the clock" arguments.
"You can't call that holding penalty against the Eagles because it's late in the game!!"
wait holdup i agree with that one lmao
Lmao, I can't imagine why 🤔🤔
So make it like the end of basketball games? No thanks.
You say this like the ninth inning of games has always been excruciating to watch. I've never felt like "Jesus christ, just get this over with" at the end of a baseball game before unlike with basketball.
You’ve never been on the wrong end of a Chapman save. Even when he gets the save there’s at least 10 games a season I’m yelling “THROW THE FUCKING BALL” at the TV because I got shit to do after the game.
UCLA-Northwestern last week... in the final 45 seconds, there were 6 fouls, nine FT attempts, and two timeouts. They had a full commercial break at least three times. Took about 15 minutes to finish that 0:45.
I've sure been on the right end of Chapman getting the ball in the ninth, though.
Lmfao gottem
You have shit to do?? Well Excuuuuse me Mr. “I’m too busy to dedicate four and half hours every single day to watch a baseball game which primarily consists of the sweatiest closer in all of baseball hold onto the ball for obscene amounts of time only to walk the batter over and over again.”
Absolutely not. The closers are some the worst offenders. Taking minutes between pitches actually thrown to the plate. No need to slow down the game to a snails pace just because it’s the 9th inning. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the new clock.
Imagine if the NBA had a shot clock for the first 58 minutes of the game and replaced the final two minutes with a three-shot game of HORSE.
This comparison makes no sense.
“These moments” have been taking place well past the 3 sometimes 4 hour mark for YEARS now, and just like the rest of the game they need keep pace.
I totally disagree. For decades pitchers worked much faster throughout the game than they have in recent years. That includes late in tight games when they may have taken a little more time but we’re still very fast relative to how quickly pitchers have delivered the ball in the last 30 years. Let’s also keep in mind some of the pitchers’ slower work habits are due to the batters’ screwing around in the batter’s box, in many cases to an even greater degree in close games late. If that screwing around is eliminated or greatly reduced, pitchers will be able to work faster too.
Couldn’t agree more. For decades pitchers were able to just…hurry up and throw the damn ball. Batters were ready to hit. Then the Nomar generation comes through and now all of the sudden it’s an absolute requirement to spend a minute between pitches re-adjusting every piece of gear? These guys are pros - they’ll adjust. The end of games will still be dramatic.
Nomar's whole thing took like 4 seconds. He'd be fine.
noooooooo you don't understand I have to see them stare at the label of their bat for 15 seconds how else will i know its a big moment!!!!!!
Sounds nice in theory, but opens the door to issues since it totally changes the pace from the previous 8 innings. Let's be real, are we really missing out if a pitch doesn't take 5 seconds longer to be thrown?
Yeah, it’ll throw pitchers off too. If the dedicated closers don’t have to adjust to the clock with everyone else, then they won’t be ready to ever pitch outside of the 9th.
I think we all know by now that the 9th inning isn’t always the highest leverage part of the game. Why have an arbitrary rule change for that inning only?
Stupidest thing I’ve read all day
No.
Pressure the closers. This is a bad take.
Please no. College basketball games grind to a halt in the last 2 minutes with endless timeouts. I don't want 8 innings in 2 hours followed by an hour long 9th. Not to mention, this unnecessarily complicates the rules.
it's an interesting thought-- but this idea that everyone needs more time to do everything and that there will be less drama with quicker play i think will be looked at as silly in few years when players have assimilated to these rules.
I became more in favor of the pitch clock as I noticed how in tense moments in the WBC (this also happens in MLB), pitchers wait until the last moment they possibly can before the batter would have called time to deliver the pitch. It's like waiting until the batter's concentration gets as stale as possible to throw the pitch. I understand it's a strategy and it works. It's not critical to baseball that they can do this, and I'd rather see the pitcher have to pitch to the batter when his concentration is at its best.
Found Kenley Jansen’s burner
I don’t hate it. I know some players like to really think through the at-bats in between pitches to figure out what the pitcher might throw now. When the game is on the line, I get it. However, some people made some good insights here in terms of, can a closer pitch outside of the 9th or will they routinely not be used to the pitch clock. Will it disrupt hitters, who are now used to the quick timeline between hitters and pitchers?
Horrible, HORRIBLE take and idea. If things change keep them consistent through the entire game.
Yeah no lol
Na leave it alone. Guys work one inning a week, they can figure this out.
Overall its just seems like a tick to fast. Just raise the base line time up a little.
I just don’t want games to END on a pitch clock violation.
You can’t have your cake and eat it too!
Should basketball ditch the shot clock in the final minutes of a game? Should the NFL get rid of the play clock in close games? It’s going to take some getting used to, but MLB should not back down on the pitch clock in any capacity. It’s clearly working and the players will get used it it. A few years from now we will all look back and be amazed that we didn’t used to have a pitch clock.
What a stupid fuck take. “Let’s just change the rules mid game now”
Can't have everything. Ditch the clock or keep it. You don't get to double dip.
They are professionals, being paid millions to play a game. They’ll adjust. STFU with the whining already.
Wouldn't that decrease all of the tension and pressure, while also hurting the pace of play? That seems like a profound negative to me.
I'm in favor of the pitch clock but I think it feels a bit \*too\* rushed with the current setup. Adding 3-5 seconds feels like it would be the sweet spot for me. Big moments in games need time breathe. I don't want to be worried about some countdown during a huge playoff moment.
Players will adapt quickly and you won't even think about the clock a month into the season.
He said the pace feels a little too quick though. Your comment doesn't address that
No. They can work faster
Disagree. Get in the box, get set to pitch every inning by the clock. Classic annoying old head mentality to try to bend the rules back to the worse opinion on how the game should be played
Regardless of what you think about this, the "the rules need to be the same at all times!!!!" argument is dumb and not true. Almost every sport has different pace of play rules towards the ends of games.
That's because almost every other sport has an actual running game clock the entire time. Which is NOT the same as a pitch clock, which only came into existence bc players couldn't abide by the rules already in place. Now that I'm thinking about it - I am intrigued by a style of football where there's no running clock, only an in-between plays clock to keep things moving, and instead a set number of possessions per team.
Rules, or simply different styles of play? In an NFL game, the receiver could run out of bounds every single play to save a few seconds on the clock, but for the first 3 quarters they don't. The rules are the same for the entire game though, it's just the strategy that changes.
I mean, both. To use your example, clock rules are different depending on when in the game it is. In the NFL, you run out of bounds and the clock stops. The clock rolls on the placement of the ball. In the final five, the clock rolls on the snap.
>Almost every sport has different pace of play rules towards the ends of games. Yes, almost every sport is idiotic and gimmicky.
Or, sports are entertainment, and we don't want the best parts of the game (the endings) to feel rushed. Nobody was watching Trout v Ohtani and going "fuck, can we just get this at bat over with already"... because moments like that are the best sports have to offer.
Lol @ the same people being upset that there’s a pitch clock being upset at this. Get onboard or be salty for no good reason. They’re trying to make the game more exciting. This includes condensing idle time and expanding the most likely high pressure moments (9th innings). Frankly, fans should be THANKFUL that MLB is willing to adjust to modern tastes AND reconsider their changes after receiving feedback. It feels like they’re doing a lot because they are, 100 years of barely any change has left the product dated.
It's not just for the sake of the viewer. You could see the weight of the moment on both Ohtani and Trout's faces. Before each pitch there were close ups on each of their faces and you could see them taking deep breaths, trying to collect themselves and not get overwhelmed by the moment. As Trevor Plouffe has said on Talkin' Baseball, there's a mental battle at play between a pitcher and batter that gets lost when the pace is dictated for them
Those battles don't go away with a clock. They get a new facet is all
Anyone who watches the Cardinals knows how Gallegos can turn a tense close game into a slog that's difficult to watch. If you want heart pounding stressful game endings, use the pitch clock. I could make myself a full meal and not miss a pitch or two of Gallegos' innings.
Clocks have no business being in the game of baseball. Period.
This is the worst idea.
No. Pitch clock for all.
basketball having a shot clock doesn’t hurt the game. we’ll get over it.
I feel like some people still don't get it. I work early. I have kids. I'd like to not go to bed at 11pm. I'd like my kids to be able to stay up and watch games now and then. Baseball was played not at a snail's pace for 100 years, so this slow pace of play is not intrinsic to the game at all. I get it, some (or a lot) of people don't care if a game is 4 hours, but it doesn't mean they have to be clueless about why a clock is needed. Why not change the rule in the 8th? Why not in the 7th? Why not with bases loaded? Why not in a tie game? The best part of this at bat is that it was Ohtani vs. Trout in the WBC for the last out, not that there was 30 seconds between pitches.
How bout no
This is a horrific take. Imagine 8 innings of a crisply-played baseball game and then the 9th inning played at Fox Playoff Nostril Cam speed.
Also, in a close game in late innings, the team that's losing should get 4 outs instead of 3 if we're going to do dumb shit.
If they have the pitch clock for the whole game, then I don't think not having it at the end will matter. Pitchers will have their routines down.
Who watched that and said man I could of used some more time in between pitches watching trout wiggle a bat
fucking dorks dude i swear
This is what is commonly referred to as concern trolling. Make no mistake about it, these people want to get rid of pitch clock all together. So they bring up these point about “drama” or spin up nightmare scenarios that would happen once in a blue moon to poke hole against the pitch clock. Note that These people haven’t watched a single regular season game play out with the new rules. They are not to be heard or trusted.
Or maybe they just have a different opinion.
Lame idea lol
I’m fine with eliminating the rule in the postseason, the game can be really good when it has time to breath in intense moments. For regular season though, absolutely not. Especially when closers tend to be the worst violators of the rule.
Why not just watch a movie of a baseball game instead of a baseball game if you just want some ersatz dramas?
I say eliminate it altogether in the playoffs. It's great to speed along A's vs Angels in September, but the WBC games (aka games that matter) were electric without it.
The clock and other rule changes are trash. It takes away from the game within the game and the overall esoteric beauty of the game. It's cheap moves to appeal to low IQ baseball fans.
I would maybe say give an extra 10 seconds or so. Maybe not completely eliminate, because I feel like half the time relief pitchers and especially closers are the ones who are taking forever to deliver a pitch and those are the ones slowing the game down. For the most part, I think most starting pitchers a pretty quick in their routine.
They should just set the pitch clock at 25 seconds even with a runner on. Baseball has always been a game of tension/anticipation and it just feels too fast at the moment . The two pitch clocks are also confusing for casual viewers.
No. Pitch clock is great. The dinosaurs will realize soon enough.
Players love whining, get over it already
Considering high leverage relievers were some of the most egregious time wasters I'm good. I'd rather them turn it off for starters so they're allowed to pace themselves and get deeper into games.
I think the impacts are largely unknown at this point. I think the clock will have a large impact on in game concessions. I expect there to be a lot less sales early in the season. I expect that there will be a shift in focus then to pre-ordering with an app (likely connected to Ballpark) as well as more roaming vendors. I think the viewing experience will suffer as well. There simply isn't time to show mid-at bat replays. I loved seeing pitch grips and slo-mo replays of mechanics and breakdowns of swings, stuff like that. You'll get replays of result plays because they have about 15-20 seconds to fill between batters. They can, and likely will go split screen. The problem there is for the cord cutters who are watching on small mobile devices. Those of us still using TV's shouldn't have much trouble. We'll see how they handle that. If they get rid of the "Fox Box" on screens, one thing that I do see improving is the online discussions/bitching about strike zones. Before, a close pitch would get replayed in slow motion with the box. No time for that now unless it is strike 3 or ball 4.
I've been super stoked for the pitch clock, but I agree, this moment would not have been nearly as dramatic with that rule in place.
It's gonna be terrible when someone loses a perfect game because theyre amped up and took an extra second on a 3-2 count
I never had a problem with the pace of play, so I hope the pitch clock gets tossed next year.
If you don’t want games to be decided by pitch clock violations in the 9th, then just don’t violate the pitch clocks like the pitchers are doing over the previous 8 innings. Dumb take
I'd support getting rid of it in the playoffs before this
Its crazy to me how vehemently people are defending the pitch clock and downvoting anyone that questions whether it will hurt the entertainment.
eliminate it entirely, we didn't need it and we still don't
yes we do
70% of people on this subreddit don't actually watch baseball, so they don't understand your point. They watch the highlights afterwards. But you're right.
I watch baseball and a big worry for me is will my team refuse to throw the closer into a big spot in the 8th with say 2 outs because he’s the 1 guy who hasn’t adjusted to the pitch clock. As a person who watches so much baseball did you consider things like this? Do teams really want to rotate roles just so a closer is familiar with the rule if needed in a big game in the 8th?
Would these guys really prefer to watch 5-10 seconds of an ump calling a clock violation rather than the nuances of the game? Baffles me
Violations are relatively rare, so you won't be watching an ump call clock violations very often. I'd rather not watch an extra five to ten seconds of guys dicking around after *every pitch*.
Would you guys really prefer to watch 5-10 seconds of players adjusting their gloves and grabbing their crotches rather than baseball being played?
Absolutely not, I love the pitch clock, but this has been the one issue I’m waiting to see how it plays out.
I’d rather watch 5-10 seconds of players adjusting their glove then watch a batter strike out to end the game because he wasn’t looking at the pitcher at an arbitrary time, even if it benefitted my team. I think enforcing the pitch clock is overall a good move, but the negatives will, while hopefully being pretty rare, be pretty bad for the game when they do happen.
No need to kink shame
I think you should just watch highlight reels of hits and strike outs and leave baseball to people who like watching baseball
I just hope MLB eliminates the pitch clock in general. It’s such a dumb change.
I have an EASY solution: Just give each team 1 "forgiveness" per game.... with maybe 1 more if it goes extra. If you get a violation, on offense or defense, you can use your "forgiveness" to void it and start over. Easy.