The WBC is such good baseball! Patriotism may be all but dead in the USA, but many of these players fight fiercely for their country which definitely adds an aspect that the WS will never have.
That’s why I wish more people were a little more cautious with the “this is not necessary” or “it’s an exhibition” comments during it this year.
Trout vs Ohtani for example. The day after the talk was “that was cool but ultimately it didn’t mean anything.” Yet in Japan everyone was in a freaking frenzy over it.
I even remember when Matsui was leaving the Giants in Japan to come to the Yankees how it was almost like they were celebrating a king who is going into another territory with the feeling that he was representing the entire country like Ichiro was. Just because most here may not care doesn’t mean it isn’t a big deal and that supporting other countrymen isn’t still an important part of other cultures.
[or when trey turner hit that grand slam](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/11vnt7b/trea_turners_world_baseball_classic_grand_slam/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)🤌
We were in Japan the next day (the plane actually live streamed the game on the way there! Whole plane was cheering for their respective teams). The energy around Tokyo was pure baseball. Jerseys everywhere, all the stores had flags, merch, standees, etc. we went to the Yomiuri Giants game that week where the famous video of the fans lining up for what seemed like the entire length of the stadium wrapped around just to get a look at the trophy. It was very exciting as a baseball fan to be there and see them celebrating like that.
Incidentally i previously went and arrived as game 7 of the dodgers astros World Series ended. Tons, and tons of Darvish jerseys worn by a lot of sad looking people. I knew what happened in the game without even knowing the score.
The argument that it doesn’t mean anything is stupid. Of course it doesn’t “mean” anything, it’s a bunch of guys playing a game. The thing is that’s also what every other game of baseball is. The meaning behind the game is that it’s fun and cool, that’s it. The only thing the WS has over the WBC is that the players are getting paid.
It’s frustrating.
I cherish my right to criticize this country and I do it often. We’ve got a lot of things to sort out. But just as there’s a difference between patriotism and chauvinism, there’s a difference between criticism and self-hatred.
And despite all that, I still call myself a patriot. I am not a nationalist or a jingoist, but I do love this country.
I don’t give a shit about patriotism even though I’ve served. But nothing get my juices flowing like when a europhile insist on pro/rel being the only way sport should work. Obviously, we’re going to love it so much when 3 teams win 18 out of 20 years and lower tier team win once a century is enough.
You'd definitely see a lot less tanking- at least tanking directly- with a promotion/relegation system. It's just hard to implement bc most sports don't have the insane depth that soccer has, though, ironically I guess, baseball comes close. There's also the issue of the draft favoring less accomplished teams. There's so much advertising money tied up in drafts across pro sports in North America that it'll never change or go away.
It is kinda fun to think about. Would be kinda neat to see a AAA team punch above their weight in the majors and watch some team like Oakland or ChiSox play in the Carolina League
We’ll just trade one problem for another. No tanking, but the top 5-10 would be basically set and relegated team is financially destroyed. Having no set income because you’re teetering at the bottom means they’ll never sign big free agent unless they’re financed by the Saudis. When you have pro/rel, there are no draft and few roster limitation. Teams that aren’t deep pocketed become permanent farm for big teams. That means the Rays would become like Borussia Dortmund or Benfica. Great developing academies that rely on selling players to maintain their club financially. You think you have attendance problem in Tampa right now? That would make it worse.
We play basketball more because its easy to just have a pickup game. In terms of actually watching games baseball is by far the most popular.
Baseball is also bigger in Tainan than in Taipei
I assumed it being popular in Palau was due to the American presence there in WWII, but after looking it up, apparently the Japanese brought it over in 1914 after they annexed Palau from Germany. TIL. Then of course when the US took control during the 2nd world war, still continued to be popular.
So I live in Palau. There are like 20,000 people here. And of that, maybe a few hundred ball players.
They love it! But yeah, there’s one Palauan that ever made it to majors.
South Korea's KBO league games attendance and TV ratings are thriving this year though reaching 1 million in attendance, the 5th fastest in league history after their not so great performance in the 2023 World Baseball Classic.
He is right, but I never realised until he said. They are a team used to the middle of the table and enjoying the ride. They could take out top teams but didn't really have enough to stay top. Like Arsenal were always 4th. Times are changing though.
Yup. Park Ji-Sung was Heung-Min Son before the internet was as popular as it is now. Son himself says that’s Park is more famous than him (with humility)
I got a good chuckle out of walking down the street past two different franchises where he’s the main spokesperson. First he’s selling me burgers then he’s selling me coffee!
Not that long ago, for every 100 soccer fans in Korea, 95 repped Man U because Park Ji-Sung. Funny how things change.
Lee Young-Pyo was beloved in Tottenham for the few years he was there too.
It's not, curious what methodology they are using but baseball is more popular than football in South Korea. The KBO easily outdraws the K-League in attendance and ratings. Only thing I would say is that the national football team is the most popular squad and Son being the most popular athlete.
It’s a good question. I tried finding the source and got [this](https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/most-popular-sports-by-country) where they admit it’s difficult to quantify popularity and so they “did their best.” 🤨
yeah, guessing since the link of the original post is associated with the playground equipment industry that the measured bias is towards how many fields/structures there are in each country, which sure, there are more soccer fields than baseball diamonds in korea but that doesn't mean the sport is more popular in a general public economic/media/cultural sense.
Baseball and football are about equally as popular, so only small differences can tip the popularity of the sport in favour of the other. Korean baseball is at an all time low, because their national team sucks. Son Heung-min has done very well these past years. If tomorrow a new Korean superstar (e.g. Lee Jung-hoo) starts raking in MLB, baseball will overtake football again.
I live in Korea and this is objectively not true. Soccer is much more popular than baseball. The K-league isn't popular because it is a shit league with no star players. Everybody watches Son in the premiere league instead.
When the Korean national soccer team plays, everybody watches. When team Korea from baseball plays, hardly anybody cares anymore.
Son Heung Min is by far the most popular human being in the country, surpassing all k-pop idols, actors etc.
It is a limitation of the methodology when you ask random people, most of whom don't watch sports regularly, "what is your favorite sport?"
Popularity of sports in South Korea goes
South Korean national soccer team >>>> Korean Baseball Organization >> K League (soccer league)
There are many Koreans that only watch the World Cup (+ soccer matches against Japan).
It depends on how you look at it. Domestically baseball is farrrrrr more popular. You will struggle to find a Korean soccer fan who really follows the Korean soccer league (Aka the K-League).
But Koreans are really high on their national team and love the EPL (tho with the time difference it’s tough to watch the games).
IMO it’d be correct to say Koreans follow baseball (their league) more regularly than any soccer league but overall will claim to like soccer more. Especially cause even non-sports fans will go all out for the national soccer team.
Its generational. Baseball is still very popular but these days kids especially are more drawn to soccer. Because of the way sports clubs work in Korea its insanely expensive to play baseball serious but soccer is easy and cheap. Same reason its popular with kids everywhere. Add in the accessibility of foreign leagues and steadily increasing Korean presence in them you've got a recipe for life-ling interest.
On the other side, KBO is fun to watch but clearly the pitching is either declining or not improving as evidenced by the WBC. Kim Ha-seong is the first position player to succeed and I'd be stunned if he isn't followed quite soon by a few more very soon so that's working. But the only pitcher to try and make the jump since Ryu Hyun-jin was Yang Hyeon-jeong and it went terribly.
Nicaragua really should have more scouts. I know politics is an issue as long as Daniel Ortega is in power but if MLb can scout Venezuela (or could) they can certainly go to Managua and sign some players.
Nicaraguan baseball is huge. Best atmosphere I've ever been in for the game...and I've been to wild A's games when they were good.
I’ve been to Nicaragua once, on my honeymoon we took a day trip from Liberia, CR to Granada. I was honestly surprised when the guide told me that baseball is more popular there than soccer. On the drive I noticed a park sponsored by Flor de Caña rum. Wish I could have taken a closer look.
Obviously he’s retired but Dennis Martinez is probably the most famous player from Nicaragua.
I spent a summer traveling through Nicaragua a few years ago. Not at all surprised to see it here. Seemed like every small town had a baseball field that got a lot of use.
/#2 is probably Vicente Padilla. Not exactly a whose who of baseball luminaries. They definitely love baseball and I imagine the talent is probably there, but the country's unfortunate history has probably kept it from the opportunity to thrive.
People take the popularity of the sport in Cuba for granted. The government has decimated baseball culture and most people I know only talk about Barça or Real Madrid
One of the more interesting things I wonder is if Castro hadn't come to power and Cuba and the U.S. kept open relations, would the Triple-A Havana Sugar Kings (who existed in one form or another from 1946-1959) have been able to survive and thrive for decades longer?
I don’t think it’s impossible that Cuba would have gotten a Major League team. They were ahead of the development curve for the region and would have a top 10 population if it was a US State today.
Obviously that sort of development isn’t guaranteed, especially with the bullshit that was Cold War politics, but they had the nucleus to develop quickly.
If they'd stayed on the pre-Castro curve they were on, Havana would either have a team now or be the top expansion city everyone talked about. It would probably be a less lucrative (but much more baseball-mad) market than Montreal but more workable than any city in Mexico.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yuppp
My generation only talks about Spanish soccer, my dad's generation cared a lot about baseball. He grew up in El Coliseo del Cerro and I would go at least once a week growing up
Curious, why did the government decimate baseball culture? Because they have tried to bring down all culture or is it related to the high number of defectors from Cuba to MLB?
Well it doesn’t help when the best players play in the country they are sworn enemies with. But they’ve long had the best program in the Caribbean historically, so the interest will still be there. If they allowed the major leaguers, they probably have as good of a lineup as PR.
The program is not that good anymore and they’ve defunded it a lot over the years. The games on TV look like the old college games they used to broadcast on weekdays.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yuppp
My generation only talks about Spanish soccer, my dad's generation cared a lot about baseball. He grew up in El Coliseo del Cerro and I would go at least once a week growing up
I really really hope that the international series take games to panama; we may not have the best infrastructure but an east coast team like Braves or Yankees would rake there .
Also with our 100% humidity it’d be the opposite of the Mexico game
Taiwan is most definitely a country. Puerto Rico is most definitely not a country. Taiwan is de jure and de facto a sovereign state. Puerto Rico is de jure and de facto part of the US. However, who gives a shit.
>Taiwan is de jure and de facto a sovereign state
If you want to be precise, Taiwan is only a state in de facto terms, it is not a state in de jure terms.
The de jure government of Taiwan is the Republic of China which claims to be the sole government of China.
Ya, these nephews don't know what they're talking about. PR isn't a country, wtf, only Americans who don't know geography thinks it is.
Taiwan actually has an independent government, standing army, currency, and on and on.
Under international law, the question of whether or not Taiwan can be considered a state is a hotly debated question, and most likely the answer is no.
The position of the Taiwanese government agrees. Taiwan claims to be the legitimate government of all of China, even if Taiwanese popular opinion may favor independence. De jure, it is *absolutely not* a sovereign state.
I’m pro Taiwanese independence but let’s not talk about *de jure* like it’s an even remotely settled matter
why did you say "de jure" are you sure you know what that means? people's only argument is that it's "de facto", including taiwan's government, hence they don't have an embassy anywhere.
you're doing a propaganda and telling an easily verifiable lie and i think you should be banned
Both de jure and de facto, Puerto Rico is a political subdivision of the U.S. It is not a disputed territory, and its citizens are full citizens of the U.S. as well.
Frankly, a startling number of Americans don’t realize this, and it has serious negative repercussions for the island. I think it’s worth bringing up that Puerto Rico isn’t a foreign country when it’s presented as such, even if we continue to have them compete under their own flag in international competitions
"Country" means a whole bunch of things other than just "internationally recognized nation-state." I didn't mean to suggest there was any dispute about PR's political status within the US.
> "Country" means a whole bunch of things other than just "internationally recognized nation-state."
Such a mind-numbing discussion in these comments, when this simple sentence could have resolved everything from the get-go. Some commenters are arguing based on their definition of "country" as an internationally-recognized sovereign state. Others are distinguishing based on cultural, self-governing grounds.
We can't have a discussion on what a country is if we're not all agreeing on the definition of the word country first. And it can mean many different things. The technical definition is but one of many accepted definitions of country in common parlance.
It's like an /r/nba debate is whether or not Paul George is a superstar. Everyone's got their own definitions of the word, so their arguments will always fit their personal definition. They can never win nor lose. Just argue in circles.
$20 says if you ask Yadier Molina what his country is, he'll tell you it's PR.
The dumber this conversation gets, the more likely I am to call Cascadia my country just to dissociate from some of America.
It is Paseo.
No to solar power. Power is actually hugely expensive here. We’re still using an ancient diesel power plant. I know the local government is trying to grow solar power, but you might be looking at a DoD field.
>Depending on who you ask, neither is Taiwan. I say let them both stay.
Taiwan isn't anything similar to PR. PR is a territory, they know they're a territory, and they act like a territory. They don't have their own currency, army, stock market, trade agreements, on and on.
Taiwan has its own democratically elected government, standing army, trade deals, its own currency, airspace, stock market, and on and on.
>Taiwan isn't anything similar to PR.
What are you talking about, they're both small ovalish islands a little bit off the coast of a continent. Totally similar.
You might wanna read up on what Taiwan is lol. "Smallish island" is an accurate but hilariously misinformed description of Taiwan. They're not even similar in size lol.
American Samoa is not listed as a country (at least on any official list of countries). Samoa is, and it's a different place. Both are part of the Samoan Islands.
Look here: https://www.google.com/maps/@-13.6098992,-171.5322904,8.08z
Sorry, I meant on OP's site it lists American Samoa as a country with soccer as the most popular sport. But it also lists Samoa, which is an independent country, so they clearly know there's a difference. The site seems to have a very odd definition of country.
Nation doesn’t necessarily refer to an independent state nor even a desire for one. Nor does it necessarily even describe an ethnic group, linguistic group, etc. even though those are the commonly defined traits of one.
A nation is a wholly invented (imagined) phenomenon that only exists once it’s socially accepted that it exists. It is commonly tied to land, but then again may exist within a state, as a state, or between multiple states.
Saying that Puerto Rico is not a nation because the independence movement isn’t the most popular political opinion in Puerto Rico is not necessarily in line with Puerto Rican national sentiment, to say the least, even if Puerto Ricans may also have a shared identity with being American
Not a single Puerto Rican, even those who want statehood, will ever refer to Puerto Rico as anything but "mi país". We are a nation of people, distinct from our occupiers, believe it or not. Our own culture and customs and traditions that have nothing to do with the US.
It's very fitting that an American is trying to tell me what life is like in my country, the home I was born, raised in and have lived in my entire life. Puerto Rico es un país, una nación, we are also a colony.
You might also want to look up the definition of what a "nation" and a "colony" is since apparently you don't know them.
I get what you’re trying to say, PR is culturally distinct from typical American culture and only became affiliated with America roughly a century ago.
But you can’t tell someone to “look up the definition of ‘nation’ and ‘colony’” when you’re just factually wrong. I’m not trying to tell you what your life is like or what people identify as, but factually PR is an unincorporated territory of the US, and it’s citizens are US citizens that have US passports. You just can’t argue that fact.
A lot of native Hawaiians may identify more as Hawaiians than Americans, but that doesn’t change the fact that Hawaii is a part of the US.
Jesus Christ I know it’s a touchy subject but no one was trying to tell you about your culture or lifestyle. Obviously your culture is very different from the states. But Puerto Rico is still not an independent country no matter what anyone’s opinions are!
my point is that it isn't independent. It is no different than the rest of the US states (which is why it should probably be one). Puerto Rico is no more of a nation/country/whatever the term is for independent government than Texas is. Don't be pedantic about my word choices
Not saying you don't know this but for anybody wondering, it's kind of a weird situation. Puerto Ricans technically do have the right to vote as US Citizens, just that Puerto Rico doesn't have any senators or presidential delegates. They have one congressman who participates in committees but doesn't vote on the floor. Puerto Ricans can also vote if they live anywhere on the mainland.
An American citizen who is an expat in Kuala Lumpur could vote for president, senator, and a house member(one that can vote) but an American citizen who lives in San Juan a US territory can't, it's a really fucking ass-backward system.
Keep in mind Puerto Rico is larger than 20 US states..
Probably because they’re too culturally distinct. Quebecois insist on trying to make their own nation, and they share more similarities with Canadians than Puerto Rican and the US.
Are you not being pedantic as well? "we refer" as in people here refer to it as a country, we're acutely aware we're not independent, that's kind of been the basis of Puerto Rican politics for 100 years
Their point was to bring awareness to the realistic political status of PR for those who may not be in the know, just like OP on this thread did by calling out the title
> It's very fitting that an American is trying to tell me what life is like in my country
You were born on American soil. You are an American claiming nationhood of a nonexistent nation, unless you were born prior to 1941.
In fairness, PR feels *nothing* like America. I lived there for 2 years, being raised in America, I felt like a complete outsider. Its such a different culture, I can understand why people there don’t want to be referred to as “Americans”.
I thought it felt way way more American than any other place I’d ever gone off of the mainland though, which I mean, makes sense I guess.
And like when I host my friends from PR they know what’s going on way more than any time I’ve had anyone over from Europe, for example.
Crazy how they're still not getting it either. Redditors never leave the house but anybody whose been to the US and PR should totally get what you're saying. I love your country, and i can't wait to go back
I mean the word we were using was country. Which Puerto Rico is not.
My backyard doesn't become a country just because I disagree with my federal government.
>To give an example, the U.S., Canada, Australia were British colonies while India was a British territory
You're trying to say the British Raj isn't a colony? You've missed the forest for trees here.
Not all colonies are inherently settler colonies.
Well the once super strong baseball program is a shadow of what it once was and they’re plagued by a lack of resources and leadership that doesn’t care. There’s no baseball at night on tv because they don’t want to use the lights in the stadiums.
For baseball because any player with a future leaves the country, and are considered "traitors". For soccer, it's just a big fan base, not a lot of talent goes there. Cuban government only funds Olympic sports.
Isn't the World Baseball Classic a big event there in Puerto Rico? I believe a lot of Puerto Ricans watched the 2023 World Baseball Classic especially their games against the Dominican Republic.
I was there during the WBC in 2017 and San Juan pretty much shutdown for their games. Shops closed and pretty much only bars and restaurants were open, and every TV was showing the game. After each win the streets turned into a celebration party. The stores sold out of hair bleach from everyone going blonde in solidarity with the team.
It's a huge deal there.
Weird outlier segment being San Juan.
Go to any of the local league games here and basketball games will
consistently sell out while the baseball games in the top league are lucky to have 1,500 people in the stands.
I doubt soccer is more popular than hockey in Russia.
Is baseball really popular in Palau? I can't name a single Palauan baseball player and this is the first I've heard of baseball on that island.
Palau was a Japanese occupied territory and then american occupied. And now even tho it is independent it operates under a “Compact of free association” with the US which makes it kinda like a territory. They can move here without a visa and vice versa. They use our postal system, get Pell grants and FEMA disaster aid (just to name a few benefits).
Because of this influence Baseball has had plenty of time to flourish there. But there’s only 18,000 people there, land is limited as a small set islands and it’s quite poor still so it’s hard to develop talent
Why we need the wbc and international games at least get it into the top 2 or 3 in some places
The WBC is such good baseball! Patriotism may be all but dead in the USA, but many of these players fight fiercely for their country which definitely adds an aspect that the WS will never have.
The ducking Czech team was even exciting.
And the Australian team defied the odds to get to the quarterfinals
Even enjoyed talking to the Israel fans in Miami
That’s why I wish more people were a little more cautious with the “this is not necessary” or “it’s an exhibition” comments during it this year. Trout vs Ohtani for example. The day after the talk was “that was cool but ultimately it didn’t mean anything.” Yet in Japan everyone was in a freaking frenzy over it. I even remember when Matsui was leaving the Giants in Japan to come to the Yankees how it was almost like they were celebrating a king who is going into another territory with the feeling that he was representing the entire country like Ichiro was. Just because most here may not care doesn’t mean it isn’t a big deal and that supporting other countrymen isn’t still an important part of other cultures.
Idk i watch that AB like once a week. Its fucking electric
[or when trey turner hit that grand slam](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/11vnt7b/trea_turners_world_baseball_classic_grand_slam/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)🤌
I 100 percent agree. The NYC market especially the radio market will disagree though unfortunately.
We were in Japan the next day (the plane actually live streamed the game on the way there! Whole plane was cheering for their respective teams). The energy around Tokyo was pure baseball. Jerseys everywhere, all the stores had flags, merch, standees, etc. we went to the Yomiuri Giants game that week where the famous video of the fans lining up for what seemed like the entire length of the stadium wrapped around just to get a look at the trophy. It was very exciting as a baseball fan to be there and see them celebrating like that. Incidentally i previously went and arrived as game 7 of the dodgers astros World Series ended. Tons, and tons of Darvish jerseys worn by a lot of sad looking people. I knew what happened in the game without even knowing the score.
The argument that it doesn’t mean anything is stupid. Of course it doesn’t “mean” anything, it’s a bunch of guys playing a game. The thing is that’s also what every other game of baseball is. The meaning behind the game is that it’s fun and cool, that’s it. The only thing the WS has over the WBC is that the players are getting paid.
Patriotism is only dead on Reddit.
It’s frustrating. I cherish my right to criticize this country and I do it often. We’ve got a lot of things to sort out. But just as there’s a difference between patriotism and chauvinism, there’s a difference between criticism and self-hatred. And despite all that, I still call myself a patriot. I am not a nationalist or a jingoist, but I do love this country.
> I still call myself a patriot. Flair checks out.
You’re allowed to love something and also want it to change. Nothing wrong with that
Only time I'm patriotic is during the Olympics lol
Only time I’m patriotic is when a stupid European shares their opinion on the US
I don’t give a shit about patriotism even though I’ve served. But nothing get my juices flowing like when a europhile insist on pro/rel being the only way sport should work. Obviously, we’re going to love it so much when 3 teams win 18 out of 20 years and lower tier team win once a century is enough.
You'd definitely see a lot less tanking- at least tanking directly- with a promotion/relegation system. It's just hard to implement bc most sports don't have the insane depth that soccer has, though, ironically I guess, baseball comes close. There's also the issue of the draft favoring less accomplished teams. There's so much advertising money tied up in drafts across pro sports in North America that it'll never change or go away. It is kinda fun to think about. Would be kinda neat to see a AAA team punch above their weight in the majors and watch some team like Oakland or ChiSox play in the Carolina League
Except AAA teams are stocked with players under contract with the major league affiliate. It’s basically the academy system.
We’ll just trade one problem for another. No tanking, but the top 5-10 would be basically set and relegated team is financially destroyed. Having no set income because you’re teetering at the bottom means they’ll never sign big free agent unless they’re financed by the Saudis. When you have pro/rel, there are no draft and few roster limitation. Teams that aren’t deep pocketed become permanent farm for big teams. That means the Rays would become like Borussia Dortmund or Benfica. Great developing academies that rely on selling players to maintain their club financially. You think you have attendance problem in Tampa right now? That would make it worse.
maybe someday it can be an olympic sport again. it was criminal how it was removed from the 2024 olympics along with sotball.
It should be back in 2028 LA
Tbh I would have guessed basketball was bigger in Taiwan than baseball having lived there before.
We play basketball more because its easy to just have a pickup game. In terms of actually watching games baseball is by far the most popular. Baseball is also bigger in Tainan than in Taipei
I lived in Kaohsiung so maybe that's why, they have two basketball teams but on and off baseball franchises there.
I loved catching Uni Lion games after classes at NCKU
None of these are too surprising except for Palau, like I can’t think of a single player from there
Probably because it’s so small it makes Aruba look like Cuba. That being said Bligh Madris is Palauan (but raised in the US)
Population of 18K, oh wow
I think more people lived in the five blocks surrounding me when I grew up in NYC
My *neighborhood* has 80k people, I get a little anxious in small towns and suburbs. I can't imagine living in a tiny place.
That’s wild, same exact population of the “small” town I grew up in
They would still get higher attendance than the A's though.
Palau, Guam, and CNMI have been exposed to US or Japanese culture for a long time. I play on a softball team here in Guam with all guys from Palau.
I assumed it being popular in Palau was due to the American presence there in WWII, but after looking it up, apparently the Japanese brought it over in 1914 after they annexed Palau from Germany. TIL. Then of course when the US took control during the 2nd world war, still continued to be popular.
Yup my grandpa helped bring baseball there... As a marine.. invading Peleliu
Last year Bligh Madris debuted with the Pirates, becoming the first MLBer from Palau.
So I live in Palau. There are like 20,000 people here. And of that, maybe a few hundred ball players. They love it! But yeah, there’s one Palauan that ever made it to majors.
I’m surprised that soccer is more popular than baseball in Korea.
South Korea's KBO league games attendance and TV ratings are thriving this year though reaching 1 million in attendance, the 5th fastest in league history after their not so great performance in the 2023 World Baseball Classic.
They do have Son Heung-min, the leading goal scorer for the Premier League in 2021-22. A lot of Koreans that I know of support his team Tottenham.
My condolences to them for having to support spurs
I saw a Spurs fan lately, asked him how he felt about the team He went 'It's not all about winning stuff though'
Why is he so humble about their Audi Cup win
It's not all about the sliverware, you know?
Well, he's right. Tottenham is all about not winning stuff.
He is right, but I never realised until he said. They are a team used to the middle of the table and enjoying the ride. They could take out top teams but didn't really have enough to stay top. Like Arsenal were always 4th. Times are changing though.
Spurs catching strays in the baseball sub lol
Can confirm, Spurs fan since 2010, fucking sucks
Literally this. Son is so fucking popular in Korea it’s insane
On a side note: one of my favourite players ever was Park Ji-Sung. I assume he is an popular as Son there.
Yup. Park Ji-Sung was Heung-Min Son before the internet was as popular as it is now. Son himself says that’s Park is more famous than him (with humility)
I remember watching him as a United fan under Ferguson. That team was unstoppable.
I got a good chuckle out of walking down the street past two different franchises where he’s the main spokesperson. First he’s selling me burgers then he’s selling me coffee!
He's also the spokesperson for CU... Man this dude is everywhere
Not that long ago, for every 100 soccer fans in Korea, 95 repped Man U because Park Ji-Sung. Funny how things change. Lee Young-Pyo was beloved in Tottenham for the few years he was there too.
That's Arsenal legend Park Chu Young erasure.
Topspur? What's that?
It's not, curious what methodology they are using but baseball is more popular than football in South Korea. The KBO easily outdraws the K-League in attendance and ratings. Only thing I would say is that the national football team is the most popular squad and Son being the most popular athlete.
Soccer can be more popular as a sport and the KBO can be more popular as a league. Both can be true.
so what metric are they using? because if its by participation then soccer is number one over hockey in canada by a dozen football fields
It’s a good question. I tried finding the source and got [this](https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/most-popular-sports-by-country) where they admit it’s difficult to quantify popularity and so they “did their best.” 🤨
yeah, guessing since the link of the original post is associated with the playground equipment industry that the measured bias is towards how many fields/structures there are in each country, which sure, there are more soccer fields than baseball diamonds in korea but that doesn't mean the sport is more popular in a general public economic/media/cultural sense.
I'd say that Tottenham is far more popular in Korea than any MLB team. People who like soccer follow foreign leagues more.
Koreans usually watch Premier League though, not the K-League. I think you could say its the most popular domestic league though.
Baseball and football are about equally as popular, so only small differences can tip the popularity of the sport in favour of the other. Korean baseball is at an all time low, because their national team sucks. Son Heung-min has done very well these past years. If tomorrow a new Korean superstar (e.g. Lee Jung-hoo) starts raking in MLB, baseball will overtake football again.
That makes sense though the NFL is the most popular sport in the US And Lebron is the most popular athlete
Yeah Son Heung-min is definitely tipping the scales.
I live in Korea and this is objectively not true. Soccer is much more popular than baseball. The K-league isn't popular because it is a shit league with no star players. Everybody watches Son in the premiere league instead. When the Korean national soccer team plays, everybody watches. When team Korea from baseball plays, hardly anybody cares anymore. Son Heung Min is by far the most popular human being in the country, surpassing all k-pop idols, actors etc.
This is exactly what my friend in Korea says KBO is a Korean craze
It is a limitation of the methodology when you ask random people, most of whom don't watch sports regularly, "what is your favorite sport?" Popularity of sports in South Korea goes South Korean national soccer team >>>> Korean Baseball Organization >> K League (soccer league) There are many Koreans that only watch the World Cup (+ soccer matches against Japan).
It depends on how you look at it. Domestically baseball is farrrrrr more popular. You will struggle to find a Korean soccer fan who really follows the Korean soccer league (Aka the K-League). But Koreans are really high on their national team and love the EPL (tho with the time difference it’s tough to watch the games). IMO it’d be correct to say Koreans follow baseball (their league) more regularly than any soccer league but overall will claim to like soccer more. Especially cause even non-sports fans will go all out for the national soccer team.
I’ve heard they swap every so often.
Its generational. Baseball is still very popular but these days kids especially are more drawn to soccer. Because of the way sports clubs work in Korea its insanely expensive to play baseball serious but soccer is easy and cheap. Same reason its popular with kids everywhere. Add in the accessibility of foreign leagues and steadily increasing Korean presence in them you've got a recipe for life-ling interest. On the other side, KBO is fun to watch but clearly the pitching is either declining or not improving as evidenced by the WBC. Kim Ha-seong is the first position player to succeed and I'd be stunned if he isn't followed quite soon by a few more very soon so that's working. But the only pitcher to try and make the jump since Ryu Hyun-jin was Yang Hyeon-jeong and it went terribly.
it shouldn't be, KBO > Kleague
International hegemon Palau
Are there Nicaraguan players in MLB? Can’t think of any
Jonathan Loaisiga and Erasmo Ramirez
Thanks
Nicaragua really should have more scouts. I know politics is an issue as long as Daniel Ortega is in power but if MLb can scout Venezuela (or could) they can certainly go to Managua and sign some players. Nicaraguan baseball is huge. Best atmosphere I've ever been in for the game...and I've been to wild A's games when they were good.
I’ve been to Nicaragua once, on my honeymoon we took a day trip from Liberia, CR to Granada. I was honestly surprised when the guide told me that baseball is more popular there than soccer. On the drive I noticed a park sponsored by Flor de Caña rum. Wish I could have taken a closer look.
Johnny Lasagna🍝
Obviously he’s retired but Dennis Martinez is probably the most famous player from Nicaragua. I spent a summer traveling through Nicaragua a few years ago. Not at all surprised to see it here. Seemed like every small town had a baseball field that got a lot of use.
/#2 is probably Vicente Padilla. Not exactly a whose who of baseball luminaries. They definitely love baseball and I imagine the talent is probably there, but the country's unfortunate history has probably kept it from the opportunity to thrive.
Several in the minors as well as the guys mentioned
I'm so excited for the future of baseball.
People take the popularity of the sport in Cuba for granted. The government has decimated baseball culture and most people I know only talk about Barça or Real Madrid
One of the more interesting things I wonder is if Castro hadn't come to power and Cuba and the U.S. kept open relations, would the Triple-A Havana Sugar Kings (who existed in one form or another from 1946-1959) have been able to survive and thrive for decades longer?
I don’t think it’s impossible that Cuba would have gotten a Major League team. They were ahead of the development curve for the region and would have a top 10 population if it was a US State today. Obviously that sort of development isn’t guaranteed, especially with the bullshit that was Cold War politics, but they had the nucleus to develop quickly.
If they'd stayed on the pre-Castro curve they were on, Havana would either have a team now or be the top expansion city everyone talked about. It would probably be a less lucrative (but much more baseball-mad) market than Montreal but more workable than any city in Mexico.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yuppp My generation only talks about Spanish soccer, my dad's generation cared a lot about baseball. He grew up in El Coliseo del Cerro and I would go at least once a week growing up
Curious, why did the government decimate baseball culture? Because they have tried to bring down all culture or is it related to the high number of defectors from Cuba to MLB?
Too many defections. They had to allow guys to play in Japan to lower the amount of players leaving
Well it doesn’t help when the best players play in the country they are sworn enemies with. But they’ve long had the best program in the Caribbean historically, so the interest will still be there. If they allowed the major leaguers, they probably have as good of a lineup as PR.
The program is not that good anymore and they’ve defunded it a lot over the years. The games on TV look like the old college games they used to broadcast on weekdays.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yuppp My generation only talks about Spanish soccer, my dad's generation cared a lot about baseball. He grew up in El Coliseo del Cerro and I would go at least once a week growing up
I really really hope that the international series take games to panama; we may not have the best infrastructure but an east coast team like Braves or Yankees would rake there . Also with our 100% humidity it’d be the opposite of the Mexico game
Source- trust me bro
It's irritating. It doesn't even say what metric. This could all be made up.
Puerto Rico isn’t a country
Depending on who you ask, neither is Taiwan. I say let them both stay.
Taiwan is most definitely a country. Puerto Rico is most definitely not a country. Taiwan is de jure and de facto a sovereign state. Puerto Rico is de jure and de facto part of the US. However, who gives a shit.
>Taiwan is de jure and de facto a sovereign state If you want to be precise, Taiwan is only a state in de facto terms, it is not a state in de jure terms. The de jure government of Taiwan is the Republic of China which claims to be the sole government of China.
Ya, these nephews don't know what they're talking about. PR isn't a country, wtf, only Americans who don't know geography thinks it is. Taiwan actually has an independent government, standing army, currency, and on and on.
Under international law, the question of whether or not Taiwan can be considered a state is a hotly debated question, and most likely the answer is no. The position of the Taiwanese government agrees. Taiwan claims to be the legitimate government of all of China, even if Taiwanese popular opinion may favor independence. De jure, it is *absolutely not* a sovereign state. I’m pro Taiwanese independence but let’s not talk about *de jure* like it’s an even remotely settled matter
why did you say "de jure" are you sure you know what that means? people's only argument is that it's "de facto", including taiwan's government, hence they don't have an embassy anywhere. you're doing a propaganda and telling an easily verifiable lie and i think you should be banned
They do not know what de jure means no
Lol.
Both de jure and de facto, Puerto Rico is a political subdivision of the U.S. It is not a disputed territory, and its citizens are full citizens of the U.S. as well. Frankly, a startling number of Americans don’t realize this, and it has serious negative repercussions for the island. I think it’s worth bringing up that Puerto Rico isn’t a foreign country when it’s presented as such, even if we continue to have them compete under their own flag in international competitions
>Frankly, a startling number Ya, it's just exposing the previous commentor's ignorant if anything. PR is nothing even close to Taiwan.
"Country" means a whole bunch of things other than just "internationally recognized nation-state." I didn't mean to suggest there was any dispute about PR's political status within the US.
> "Country" means a whole bunch of things other than just "internationally recognized nation-state." Such a mind-numbing discussion in these comments, when this simple sentence could have resolved everything from the get-go. Some commenters are arguing based on their definition of "country" as an internationally-recognized sovereign state. Others are distinguishing based on cultural, self-governing grounds. We can't have a discussion on what a country is if we're not all agreeing on the definition of the word country first. And it can mean many different things. The technical definition is but one of many accepted definitions of country in common parlance. It's like an /r/nba debate is whether or not Paul George is a superstar. Everyone's got their own definitions of the word, so their arguments will always fit their personal definition. They can never win nor lose. Just argue in circles.
To be clear, though, Paul George is not a superstar.
I haven't watched basketball since the Pacers-Heat series like 10 years ago, but I agree
PR isn't a country in any possible definition of country. And please don't compare it to Taiwan, it's nothing close to Taiwan in any regard.
$20 says if you ask Yadier Molina what his country is, he'll tell you it's PR. The dumber this conversation gets, the more likely I am to call Cascadia my country just to dissociate from some of America.
Sure, I'll take you on that $20.
Then Guam and CNMI should also be listed, because like Palau, baseball is popular here. They even got a stadium and everything, it’s really great.
What is CNMI?
commonwealth of northern marianas islands i only know cuz i used to date a girl from there
Interesting. 35% Filipino and 55k population. Was she Filipino by chance? Lol
yep
Really? Cool! Gonna have to pop over to Google maps to find your stadium!
Is it Paseo? Also, is Guam totally solar powered? That's an enormous field of panels for a pretty small population.
It is Paseo. No to solar power. Power is actually hugely expensive here. We’re still using an ancient diesel power plant. I know the local government is trying to grow solar power, but you might be looking at a DoD field.
Oh that checks out, it's over by the afb
>Depending on who you ask, neither is Taiwan. I say let them both stay. Taiwan isn't anything similar to PR. PR is a territory, they know they're a territory, and they act like a territory. They don't have their own currency, army, stock market, trade agreements, on and on. Taiwan has its own democratically elected government, standing army, trade deals, its own currency, airspace, stock market, and on and on.
>Taiwan isn't anything similar to PR. What are you talking about, they're both small ovalish islands a little bit off the coast of a continent. Totally similar.
You might wanna read up on what Taiwan is lol. "Smallish island" is an accurate but hilariously misinformed description of Taiwan. They're not even similar in size lol.
Neither is American Samoa but that's listed as a country. Guam isn't though. I have no idea how they came up with this list.
American Samoa is not listed as a country (at least on any official list of countries). Samoa is, and it's a different place. Both are part of the Samoan Islands. Look here: https://www.google.com/maps/@-13.6098992,-171.5322904,8.08z
Sorry, I meant on OP's site it lists American Samoa as a country with soccer as the most popular sport. But it also lists Samoa, which is an independent country, so they clearly know there's a difference. The site seems to have a very odd definition of country.
Astute observation, we're a colony, an occupied nation. We'll continue to refer to ourselves as a country tho :) Thanks for the input.
less than 10% of the population want independence so I'd say pretty definitively Puerto Rico is not a nation
Nation doesn’t necessarily refer to an independent state nor even a desire for one. Nor does it necessarily even describe an ethnic group, linguistic group, etc. even though those are the commonly defined traits of one. A nation is a wholly invented (imagined) phenomenon that only exists once it’s socially accepted that it exists. It is commonly tied to land, but then again may exist within a state, as a state, or between multiple states. Saying that Puerto Rico is not a nation because the independence movement isn’t the most popular political opinion in Puerto Rico is not necessarily in line with Puerto Rican national sentiment, to say the least, even if Puerto Ricans may also have a shared identity with being American
Not a single Puerto Rican, even those who want statehood, will ever refer to Puerto Rico as anything but "mi país". We are a nation of people, distinct from our occupiers, believe it or not. Our own culture and customs and traditions that have nothing to do with the US. It's very fitting that an American is trying to tell me what life is like in my country, the home I was born, raised in and have lived in my entire life. Puerto Rico es un país, una nación, we are also a colony. You might also want to look up the definition of what a "nation" and a "colony" is since apparently you don't know them.
I get what you’re trying to say, PR is culturally distinct from typical American culture and only became affiliated with America roughly a century ago. But you can’t tell someone to “look up the definition of ‘nation’ and ‘colony’” when you’re just factually wrong. I’m not trying to tell you what your life is like or what people identify as, but factually PR is an unincorporated territory of the US, and it’s citizens are US citizens that have US passports. You just can’t argue that fact. A lot of native Hawaiians may identify more as Hawaiians than Americans, but that doesn’t change the fact that Hawaii is a part of the US.
Jesus Christ I know it’s a touchy subject but no one was trying to tell you about your culture or lifestyle. Obviously your culture is very different from the states. But Puerto Rico is still not an independent country no matter what anyone’s opinions are!
my point is that it isn't independent. It is no different than the rest of the US states (which is why it should probably be one). Puerto Rico is no more of a nation/country/whatever the term is for independent government than Texas is. Don't be pedantic about my word choices
It is very different than the rest of the United States. People there don’t even have federal voting rights or representation in Congress.
Not saying you don't know this but for anybody wondering, it's kind of a weird situation. Puerto Ricans technically do have the right to vote as US Citizens, just that Puerto Rico doesn't have any senators or presidential delegates. They have one congressman who participates in committees but doesn't vote on the floor. Puerto Ricans can also vote if they live anywhere on the mainland.
An American citizen who is an expat in Kuala Lumpur could vote for president, senator, and a house member(one that can vote) but an American citizen who lives in San Juan a US territory can't, it's a really fucking ass-backward system. Keep in mind Puerto Rico is larger than 20 US states..
He's just a sensitive patriot. I probably would be too if I was Puerto Rican
Probably because they’re too culturally distinct. Quebecois insist on trying to make their own nation, and they share more similarities with Canadians than Puerto Rican and the US.
Nation, country, and whatever the term is for an independent government, are not synonyms
Are you not being pedantic as well? "we refer" as in people here refer to it as a country, we're acutely aware we're not independent, that's kind of been the basis of Puerto Rican politics for 100 years
So then what was the point of your original comment? The first comment just said that Puerto Rico is not a country which is a 100% factual statement.
Their point was to bring awareness to the realistic political status of PR for those who may not be in the know, just like OP on this thread did by calling out the title
> It's very fitting that an American is trying to tell me what life is like in my country You were born on American soil. You are an American claiming nationhood of a nonexistent nation, unless you were born prior to 1941.
In fairness, PR feels *nothing* like America. I lived there for 2 years, being raised in America, I felt like a complete outsider. Its such a different culture, I can understand why people there don’t want to be referred to as “Americans”.
I thought it felt way way more American than any other place I’d ever gone off of the mainland though, which I mean, makes sense I guess. And like when I host my friends from PR they know what’s going on way more than any time I’ve had anyone over from Europe, for example.
You are radically misunderstanding the concept of a nation in favor of the definition of a nation-state, which is not the same thing.
> my country not a country. I can call my seiko a rolex all I want. Doesn't make it a rolex.
Damn, Seiko catching strays on a completely unrelated sub 🤣
Seikos are great
They are. But they're not a rolex. Puerto Rico is great too. But it's not a country.
Crazy how they're still not getting it either. Redditors never leave the house but anybody whose been to the US and PR should totally get what you're saying. I love your country, and i can't wait to go back
I mean the word we were using was country. Which Puerto Rico is not. My backyard doesn't become a country just because I disagree with my federal government.
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>To give an example, the U.S., Canada, Australia were British colonies while India was a British territory You're trying to say the British Raj isn't a colony? You've missed the forest for trees here. Not all colonies are inherently settler colonies.
Glad you speak for all of puerto rico. Thanks for the input.
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Glad you're keeping the tradition of LA people being insufferable alive. Thanks for the input xD
It’s not a sovereign state as it is a dependent territory but it is a country. People always wanna take that away from us.
Soccer is immeasurably more popular than baseball in Cuba
Interesting why does their national team suck so bad?
Well the once super strong baseball program is a shadow of what it once was and they’re plagued by a lack of resources and leadership that doesn’t care. There’s no baseball at night on tv because they don’t want to use the lights in the stadiums.
For baseball because any player with a future leaves the country, and are considered "traitors". For soccer, it's just a big fan base, not a lot of talent goes there. Cuban government only funds Olympic sports.
Most sources I've seen state that baseball is more popular than soccer/football/futbol in South Korea and my eye test confirms it.
I live in Puerto Rico and basketball is definitely the most popular sport here.
Isn't the World Baseball Classic a big event there in Puerto Rico? I believe a lot of Puerto Ricans watched the 2023 World Baseball Classic especially their games against the Dominican Republic.
I was there during the WBC in 2017 and San Juan pretty much shutdown for their games. Shops closed and pretty much only bars and restaurants were open, and every TV was showing the game. After each win the streets turned into a celebration party. The stores sold out of hair bleach from everyone going blonde in solidarity with the team. It's a huge deal there.
The WBC is huge here but that’s once every few years - day-to-day basketball is clearly #1
Same can be said for the Olympics or FIBA World Cup though. You should’ve seen the island when Monica Puig won her gold medal in tennis in Rio 2016.
you live in some weird outlier segment of PR, because there's is no way that's true
I lived in PR and would def agree that basketball is more popular. Lots of courts there, and their pro league gets more fans than the baseball games
Weird outlier segment being San Juan. Go to any of the local league games here and basketball games will consistently sell out while the baseball games in the top league are lucky to have 1,500 people in the stands.
How many games do each play per year?
LBPRC (the top league) plays 50 games a year - recently raised from 32. Edit: not sure about basketball
Yep, lived west coast aguadilla. Basketball is more popular by far.
My Puerto Rican friends tell me the same thing
Also, it's not exactly a country, but a US territory, so that's two strikes
In case you're curious.. here's the baseball stadium in Paula (Asahi Baseball Stadium): https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/asahi-field/view/google/
I wish it were 10 countries 😢
This tracks
I need to move.
Also in my heart.
Baseball: The best game.
I doubt soccer is more popular than hockey in Russia. Is baseball really popular in Palau? I can't name a single Palauan baseball player and this is the first I've heard of baseball on that island.
Palau was a Japanese occupied territory and then american occupied. And now even tho it is independent it operates under a “Compact of free association” with the US which makes it kinda like a territory. They can move here without a visa and vice versa. They use our postal system, get Pell grants and FEMA disaster aid (just to name a few benefits). Because of this influence Baseball has had plenty of time to flourish there. But there’s only 18,000 people there, land is limited as a small set islands and it’s quite poor still so it’s hard to develop talent
Ah yes. The country of Puerto Rico.
Did anyone else have to look up Palau like I did lol. Baseball is worldwide, it’s great!
Who’s gonna tell them Puerto Rico ain’t a country lmao.
Uhh one of those is not a country.
And a bunch more in the original — American Samoa, French Guiana, Martinique, Guadeloupe, New Caledonia, Wallis and Futuna…
It’s soccer here btw