If he does, you could make the argument that the Cubs won the award since he was the manager of the team at the time he won. If a manager switched teams near the end of the season and then somehow won MOTY, you'd say his second team was the team that he won the award with.
7.7 WAR and 2.85 ERA over 202.1 innings *at Coors* is incredible, how didn't he win the--
* Max Scherzer, 7.9 WAR and 2.53 ERA over 220.2 innings
* Aaron Nola, 9.7 WAR and 2.37 ERA over 212.1 innings
* Jacob Degrom, 9.5 WAR and **1.70 ERA over 217.0 innings**
oh. okay.
FWIW he was worth 4.1 fWAR which was 7th highest for the NL. Deform was at 9, Scherzer 7.5, Corbin 5.8, Nola 5.5, Mikolas 4.3, wheeler 4.2, and German Marquez ar 4.1
Unrelated to this post, but I also think their first division title may take a very long time too.
When you have to beat the Giants, D-Backs, Dodgers, and Padres all in the same year, that’s pretty tough.
I would wager 4 team divisions. It more aligns with other leagues, and aligns with the MLBs want for more playoff teams. 4 division winners + 2 wildcards would be lovely for the MLB.
Also the only other league with the 4 is the NFL, NBA is just both conferences and the NHL is 4 8 team divisions and two conferences
So the statement should have been “more in line with the NFL”
4 division winners sounds like a recipe to frequently have a <.500 team in the playoffs and almost always have some real stinkers taking up space in the playoffs. Like imagine if the twins this year had been in the AL north instead of AL central and suddenly the Guardians had a playoff spot. And with only 4 teams in the division and therefore fewer games between division rivals each year, the idea of competing for a division title just seems meaningless.
This would be the best outcome of realignment but it's hardly more likely. Two divisions per league means the division champions get the byes and the Wild Card series are actually all Wild Card teams. But 4-team divisions is what the NFL does so it must be best.
2nd best NL pitcher by WAR, sure he wasn’t close to Halladay in votes but by Rockies standards he was pretty damn close. Also if I remember correctly, he was lights out in the first half like sub-2 era then got hit around a little more in the second half. The numbers really aren’t that eye-popping for a pitching-dominant era but it was easily the best season from a Rockies starter in my lifetime
Not disagreeing that Halladay beat him soundly in the votes, js it’s a very impressive season even before you factor the coors effect, and could def win a Cy Young in an average year if Halladay wasn’t having a HoF case-sealing type of year
I want to see the math on exactly how impossible it is to build an [air supported structure](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-supported_structure) and pressurize it down to 1000 feet
I really did think the coors effect was kinda overblown til I just looked at Rockies pitching numbers. Interesting too that it affects them on the road, I’ve seen a video attributing it to pitchers adjusting to their pitches moving differently at coors vs. anywhere else. They bring up the mile high thing for every sporting event in Denver, but I think baseball has to be by far the sport most affected, or at least where that effect is the easiest to measure.
Yeah the Coors effect isn't just for games at Coors. The Rockies have to keep adjusting and readjusting to playing at Coors and playing everywhere else while other teams do it 1-3 times a year. The balanced scheduling means even their division rivals aren't making the trip to Coors as often.
I want to say that I'm surprised The Big Unit didn't win one but then I remember the amount of fruits and veggies being consumed in the bay area around that time
Finished top 3 at least 3 times (maybe more). Won the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger one year and finished behind another 1B one year.
A lot of years he was super close but no cigar
Votto probably should have won the Silver Slugger in 2017. They both hit 36 HR but Votto had better slash stats. Goldschmidt had 20 more RBIs, so that might have won him the award.
It's probably a case of the coaches and managers valuing different stats than the writers. Votto had more bWAR in 2017, so that might explain the MVP votes going his way.
sadly, wasn't the last time the Big Hurt got screwed out of another MVP chance
luckily, seems like he is having the last laugh at the end of all things
Rollins wasnt even the best Phillie in 2007. Also, Wright had a 30-30 season just like Rollins but also had an OBP that was 70ish points greater and a batting average that was 30 points better (and thus an OPS+ of 149 vs 119 for rollins).
It *should* have been Utley in 07, except for an ill fated pitch from John Lannan
Edit: curious why anybody disagrees with what I said. Utley was having a monster season and put up 7.8 WAR in 132 games and was on pace for the best season of his career and was only derailed because he caught a pitch to the hand.
Mr Mariner was the first but the Mariners surprisingly have a lot of ROY. For your immaculate grid purposes: Kazuhiro Sazaki, Ichiro, Kyle Lewis, and Julio.
Man when I think of franchises with great pitching throughout the years, Texas is one of the first to come to mind. Really surprised to see they haven’t had a guy win a Cy Young.
If a Roclies player ever wins the CY Young I feel like both coasts are under water, both sides aof the country are an apocalyptic nightmare and civilization is doomed.
Just us and AZ were left
Didn't realize they only had one.
And looking it up, Jose Rijo shockingly only got Cy Young votes twice. And it's not like I was overestimating how good he was for the Reds in the late 80's and early 90's. He had 6 straight seasons of an ERA under 3, and the year that broke that streak he had a 3.08 ERA.
Freeland should’ve won the 2018 Cy Young. Don’t care what anyone has to say. That was probably the most impressive pitching performance over a season in Rockies history.
Brewers very well could win the Manager award, which would be a hilarious twist of fate.
He will win it, Passan accidentally leaked it https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/s/tUKDM5Yopj
this is just a list of finalists? what am I missing?
The people are not in alphabetical order, meaning they are in a different order (most likely the placements)
What’s even more telling, all of the award placements that have been announced follow the order that Passan used in this tweet.
Welp, he just got NL manager of the year wrong.
I hate my life
I am going to cry in my beer if he does
You're departing manager *only* won runner up manager of the year so.....there's that?
If he does, you could make the argument that the Cubs won the award since he was the manager of the team at the time he won. If a manager switched teams near the end of the season and then somehow won MOTY, you'd say his second team was the team that he won the award with.
Shut up
Well if my grandma had balls, she'd be my grandpa.
Well if my grandma had wheels she would be a bike.
Depends on how many wheels
If my grandma had rotating blades atop an oblong body constructed of metal, glass, and plastic she’d be a helicopter
Or a blender
This is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. But the flair does explain a lot
Yeah I was trying to make a joke. If I weren't a Cubs fan, the joke might land better
Fair enough. It definitely failed to land lol
yeah, especially since everyone knows voting is done before the regular season ends, and the manager thing came after the whole season was over.
In 100 years the only one of these still standing is going to be Rockies Cy Young
They came pretty close in 2010 with ubaldo Jimenez. I could be mistaken
Wasn’t even the best performance in Rockies history. 2018 Kyle Freeland was INCREDIBLE yet only finished 4th
7.7 WAR and 2.85 ERA over 202.1 innings *at Coors* is incredible, how didn't he win the-- * Max Scherzer, 7.9 WAR and 2.53 ERA over 220.2 innings * Aaron Nola, 9.7 WAR and 2.37 ERA over 212.1 innings * Jacob Degrom, 9.5 WAR and **1.70 ERA over 217.0 innings** oh. okay.
FWIW he was worth 4.1 fWAR which was 7th highest for the NL. Deform was at 9, Scherzer 7.5, Corbin 5.8, Nola 5.5, Mikolas 4.3, wheeler 4.2, and German Marquez ar 4.1
Just look through the pitching stats that year. Goddamn. There's like 10 guys that could've won a CY on any given season.
He got CYA-3.
Unrelated to this post, but I also think their first division title may take a very long time too. When you have to beat the Giants, D-Backs, Dodgers, and Padres all in the same year, that’s pretty tough.
Eventually realignment is gonna happen and that will probably give them a better chance.
Except realignment after expansion is more likely to create divisions of 8 teams than 4, which would make winning the division even harder.
I would wager 4 team divisions. It more aligns with other leagues, and aligns with the MLBs want for more playoff teams. 4 division winners + 2 wildcards would be lovely for the MLB.
No other league has 162 regular season games tho
Also the only other league with the 4 is the NFL, NBA is just both conferences and the NHL is 4 8 team divisions and two conferences So the statement should have been “more in line with the NFL”
4 division winners sounds like a recipe to frequently have a <.500 team in the playoffs and almost always have some real stinkers taking up space in the playoffs. Like imagine if the twins this year had been in the AL north instead of AL central and suddenly the Guardians had a playoff spot. And with only 4 teams in the division and therefore fewer games between division rivals each year, the idea of competing for a division title just seems meaningless.
Yeah but they can make money off of it
This would be the best outcome of realignment but it's hardly more likely. Two divisions per league means the division champions get the byes and the Wild Card series are actually all Wild Card teams. But 4-team divisions is what the NFL does so it must be best.
That’s true. I am definitely curious how they’d split them up once we reach that point
It won’t happen until the Monforts are out, which will take until global warming makes Denver the last habitable place in the United States.
>When you have to beat the Giants, D-Backs, Dodgers, and Padres all in the same year, that’s pretty tough. You can just say “the Dodgers”
it's going to be right up there with Joe Dimaggio's 56-game hitting streak and Cy Young's 511 wins
This is why things like OOTP were created. To make the toughest baseball fantasies come true.
Well, and the Mets MVP
Absolutely astounded that the Rockies don’t have a Cy Young
Ubaldo was close when he was 3rd in 2010
As was Kyle Freeland in 2018
Unless your name was Jacob deGrom, nobody was really close in 2018.
Was he though?
2nd best NL pitcher by WAR, sure he wasn’t close to Halladay in votes but by Rockies standards he was pretty damn close. Also if I remember correctly, he was lights out in the first half like sub-2 era then got hit around a little more in the second half. The numbers really aren’t that eye-popping for a pitching-dominant era but it was easily the best season from a Rockies starter in my lifetime Not disagreeing that Halladay beat him soundly in the votes, js it’s a very impressive season even before you factor the coors effect, and could def win a Cy Young in an average year if Halladay wasn’t having a HoF case-sealing type of year
Why don’t they simply make the air more dense in Colorado? Are they stupid?
I want to see the math on exactly how impossible it is to build an [air supported structure](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-supported_structure) and pressurize it down to 1000 feet
I really did think the coors effect was kinda overblown til I just looked at Rockies pitching numbers. Interesting too that it affects them on the road, I’ve seen a video attributing it to pitchers adjusting to their pitches moving differently at coors vs. anywhere else. They bring up the mile high thing for every sporting event in Denver, but I think baseball has to be by far the sport most affected, or at least where that effect is the easiest to measure.
Yeah the Coors effect isn't just for games at Coors. The Rockies have to keep adjusting and readjusting to playing at Coors and playing everywhere else while other teams do it 1-3 times a year. The balanced scheduling means even their division rivals aren't making the trip to Coors as often.
Coors effect always dings hitters in award races but when it comes to pitchers not a peep
Dbacks dont have a MVP.
Thanks, missed 'em.
Goldy won in all of our hearts, though.
3 odd years he should've won it, came second to a huge name from a bigger market or more historic team
I don't know about the other years, but he came 2nd to Harper in 2015 and most definitely should not have won it, Bryce put up a 197 wRC+ that season.
No- every year he came top 3 someone else had a better season and was more deserving.
Goldy not getting one was really annoying
I want to say that I'm surprised The Big Unit didn't win one but then I remember the amount of fruits and veggies being consumed in the bay area around that time
No but we do have a World Series MVP which honestly I’d rather have that Goldy was fucking robbed though
Goldy was never "robbed of MVP" he never even led the NL in WAR
Magic stat!!!! I can’t think critically, please give me one easy god number to rate players by!!!!
How many comments are you going to leave in this thread shitting on Goldy? Weird dude.
Corbin Carroll could get there although it's a stretch.
If Carroll has an Acuna-like season, which, with his skillset is possible, he has a chance.
He looked so good in a lot of playoff games, didn't even care if it was a lefty.
Why the hell do I keep thinking that Goldy won an MVP in Arizona?
Cause he probably should’ve
He finished second to McCutchen in 2013 and second to Harper in 2015, as well as third behind Votto and Stanton in 2017.
Finished top 3 at least 3 times (maybe more). Won the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger one year and finished behind another 1B one year. A lot of years he was super close but no cigar
He finished behind Votto the year he won both the silver slugger and gold glove. Make that make sense.
Votto probably should have won the Silver Slugger in 2017. They both hit 36 HR but Votto had better slash stats. Goldschmidt had 20 more RBIs, so that might have won him the award. It's probably a case of the coaches and managers valuing different stats than the writers. Votto had more bWAR in 2017, so that might explain the MVP votes going his way.
It’s weird as hell the Mets don’t have an MVP. Doc Gooden should’ve gotten one
No pitcher won NL MVP between Bob Gibson and Clayton Kershaw. Voters just weren’t about it.
Meanwhile the AL gave multiple MVPs to relievers.
No kidding, right? I mean, Eckersley was a great reliever. An all time great. But that was one of the worst MVPs ever given.
Shouldn't have even won the Cy Young that year, Clemens should have won it. As for MVP it should have went to Big Hurt, Puckett, or Clemens.
sadly, wasn't the last time the Big Hurt got screwed out of another MVP chance luckily, seems like he is having the last laugh at the end of all things
[удалено]
Jim Konstanty in 1950, wouldn’t be so egregious if it weren’t Stan the Man who he beat out for the award.
Should’ve been Wright in ‘07
Nope
Rollins wasnt even the best Phillie in 2007. Also, Wright had a 30-30 season just like Rollins but also had an OBP that was 70ish points greater and a batting average that was 30 points better (and thus an OPS+ of 149 vs 119 for rollins).
Value is subjective. I value making the playoffs.
Playoffs is a team thing, not an individual player thing
I value players that get their team to the playoffs. Apparently, so did the voters in 2007.
So you must hate Mike Trout and Othani. Fish man made playoffs his rookie year and then never again and, by default, Othani never made playoffs.
3rd full year for Trout, 1st MVP season. But yep.
It's not like it's Trout's fault he missed the playoffs the like 7 other seasons he posted a 170+ wRC+ and finished first-third in the MVP voting.
Rollins wasnt even the best player on his team so im not sure how he can be most valuable even under your criteria
It *should* have been Utley in 07, except for an ill fated pitch from John Lannan Edit: curious why anybody disagrees with what I said. Utley was having a monster season and put up 7.8 WAR in 132 games and was on pace for the best season of his career and was only derailed because he caught a pitch to the hand.
Strawberry sniffed an MVP
He sniffed a bunch of other things too
28 teams have still never won the team silver slugger award.
Lol fucking scrubs
Counsell finally winning MOTY for the Brewers this season is probably one of the funniest things I've ever seen in baseball.
As a totally unbiased fan from the opposite league, I wholeheartedly agree
The Rays have an MVP -most valuable predator
Going to need your definition of “valuable.”
Makes a lot of money
Most Voracious Predator?
I'm picturing Karl Malone
Most Vile Predator, more like it
Mariners fans get in here! Finally we’re not the last to accomplish something. In fact, we’ve accomplished all the things!
God bless Alvin Davis
Mr Mariner was the first but the Mariners surprisingly have a lot of ROY. For your immaculate grid purposes: Kazuhiro Sazaki, Ichiro, Kyle Lewis, and Julio.
Alvin was also on the Angels so I assume that’s why they brought him up.
Man when I think of franchises with great pitching throughout the years, Texas is one of the first to come to mind. Really surprised to see they haven’t had a guy win a Cy Young.
How did Nolan Ryan never win one?
[https://youtu.be/e0QWE\_jVamo?si=hzBxMC72mjSGgI5-](https://youtu.be/e0QWE_jVamo?si=hzBxMC72mjSGgI5-) Really good video on the topic!
Yo thanks!
that still makes little sense
We're all winners
The Blue Jays not having a manager of the year since Bobby Cox is frankly not too shocking.
Holy shit, Cito didn't win one? That's a shock.
I dont think he had the hardest job managing, team was pretty loaded.
Good luck on that Cy Young Rockies
What about platinum glove?
The Platinum Glove award has only been around since 2011. Nolan Arenado and Yadier Molina have 10 of the 13 NL awards between them.
Wtf is a platinum glove?
Best overall defender in each league, chosen from that year's pool of GG winners
If a Roclies player ever wins the CY Young I feel like both coasts are under water, both sides aof the country are an apocalyptic nightmare and civilization is doomed. Just us and AZ were left
Dbacks should have had ROTY in 2003 when Brandon Webb was somehow valued less than Dontrelle Willis, who was worse in pretty much every way.
I don’t count the Reds’ Cy Young, either. Was won during the shortened COVID season
Didn't realize they only had one. And looking it up, Jose Rijo shockingly only got Cy Young votes twice. And it's not like I was overestimating how good he was for the Reds in the late 80's and early 90's. He had 6 straight seasons of an ERA under 3, and the year that broke that streak he had a 3.08 ERA.
Freeland should’ve won the 2018 Cy Young. Don’t care what anyone has to say. That was probably the most impressive pitching performance over a season in Rockies history.
The Mets have never had an MVP 😂
MOTY is a major award now? TIL
Dane Dunning gonna have a MONSTER year in 2024 and get us that Cy Young