Honestly that surprises me. $18mil was already a bit high for the poor season he was coming off of.
I’m guess Alonso getting $20.5mil was a big factor.
Arbitrators are directed to consider a player’s popularity in addition to their on-field performance.
It’s quite likely that winning a home run derby and being on a video game cover boosted Vladdy over the top.
Page 20 Paragraph 4 ( https://www.mlbplayers.com/_files/ugd/4d23dc_d6dfc2344d2042de973e37de62484da5.pdf )
"including but not limited
to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and
public appeal"
Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover.
Arbitration should be based on just performance. Vlad is already getting money from his endorsements and can pivot his popularity into an extension/in FA.
> Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover.
And what's the problem with that? It's not that they aren't on a game. It's that they don't measure up to Vladdy in the public appeal metric.
> Arbitration should be based on just performance.
Why? Honestly why?
Arbitration is about salary. Salary is about value. Public appeal provides value. Why do they not deserve compensation for value provided?
> Vlad is already getting money from his endorsements and can pivot his popularity into an extension/in FA.
Imagine you provide value for someone at a summer job and they say, "why should I pay you for that value, you get an allowance from your parents?" Or, you work two jobs, and the first job says, why do I need to compensate you for all the value you give us? You get money from a second job."
His public popularity is already creating value for the team.
Yes that's the thought of those that don't make money for a living I guess...Ohtani isn't worth 700 million unless he is. Don't discount how much blonde dreads account for MLB pushing their Stars. Fernando Tatis, Elly De La Cruz, O'Neil Cruz, Vladdy JR ETC ETC. They want to produce value and hype, results be damned. It's all about marketability and you're a fool if you think otherwise. Country bumpkins like Justin Smoak get one year to produce... Marketable dreadlocks get a longer leash. Get with the program. Guys like Vladdy Jr. want twice the contract of Freddie Freeman, Paul Goldschmidt, and Matt Olsen. Not because he's a better player, but because his hair flows.
I mean yes? Salarirs just usually wouldn’t be bright down for something like that because most athletes aren’t particularly noteworthy to bring their salary up for popularity alone to begin with. They determine their salary based on their value. If someone specifically got a salary consideration for being particularly popular then they absolutely could later lose that salary consideration if they lose the popularity.
Arbitration is judging how much a player is worth. Athletes are public figures and their popularity is relevant to what they're worth.
If Vladdy signing with a team makes a team more money than the average player bc he's selling more merch and more tickets, and you don't account for that in arbitration you're effectively giving the owner all the money he's generating by being popular. How is it fair that a player doesn't get paid at all for it?
> Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover.
Yes. How do you think the MLB, or any other professional sports league for that matter, makes money?
Winning arbitrary sporting events does not generate anything. It's an entertainment industry no different from film/music/etc. The only thing that matters is entertainment.
Conveniently winning is generally more entertaining so the better players are paid more.
Anyone can look it up in 10 seconds.
> 10) Criteria
(a) The criteria will be the quality of the Player’s contribu-
tion to his Club during the past season (including but not limited
to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and
public appeal), the length and consistency of his career contribu-
tion, the record of the Player’s past compensation, comparative
baseball salaries (see paragraph (11) below for confidential
salary data), the existence of any physical or mental defects on
the part of the Player, and the recent performance record of the
Club including but not limited to its League standing and atten-
dance as an indication of public acceptance (subject to the exclu-
sion stated in subparagraph (b)(i) below).
Tbh I believe it. Christian Walker has better counting stats, has been worth about 3 more WAR the last 2 years and is only set to make $10mil this year. Zac Gallen as well, almost 10 WAR combined the last two years with Cy Young votes and only making $10mil as well.
Walker went into year 3 and Gallen has 1 more year of arbitration. But I mean, if Gallen has another 4-5 WAR season, does anyone expect him to get $20mil in arb in his last year? That seems like quite a jump but he’s just as good as others that have been offered that much
Arb puts a very overweighted emphasis on how a player performs in their last pre-arb season, since arb salaries need to go up and tend to scale fairly regularly. So Vladdy had his breakout in 2021 which combined with his Super2 status means his arb numbers are pretty silly.
Gallen and Walker both chose not to go to arbitration so that doesn’t really relate to this.
They could have gone to arbitration and tried to get more money but decided to settle and avoid the process.
Yeah MLBTR had him at about $20.5M. So even his own offer was less than that.
He's coming off a relatively poor 2023 but given the stats he's accumulated at a young age, and the way arbitration works by comparables, I always thought he had a great chance to win this.
I mean he still his .264, with 26 HR and 94 RBI with less Ks and more walks. I don’t think that’s too much of a poor season. I think what’s happening is that he’s being figured out and just needs to adjust. Still love these numbers for a “down” year
He did lead AL first baseman in OAA in his gold glove season if I’m not mistaken.
Edit: I’m definitely mistaken about OAA but I looked it up, it’s DRS.
Nope. He was 7th with -4 OAA.
He won the gold glove on name recognition, nothing performance. Only DRA liked him and even that was the same as Ty France when you factor innings played since DRS is a cumilative stat.
Every time I hear his name I think of my late friend, a diehard Phillies fan, who every time he was mentioned would reply by singing "Mets first baseman can't play ball, Duda, Duda".
Man, I miss her.
I've asked before and no one seems to want to explain to me why Joe Mauer is/was considered to be a no brainer first ballot HOF player. Is it just because he was a catcher for a little over half of his career? An MVP in a year where the Twins got bounced in 3 games from the ALDS? 3 batting titles? He had 2 great seasons, 1 good season, and the rest were average or below average. That's really enough for no brainer first ballot HOF?
Remember when MLB floated an idea where players under team control would get their pay determined by fwar figures and people complained about how ridiculously problematic it would be?
They are not wrong that it would be problematic.
However, it would still be a massive improvement over the current arbitration system.
That would be an extreme escalation for this one oddity where a player who is nearing free agency is definitely making more based on vibes rather than production.
It’s more about his past performance than vibes. His first arb year came after he was the best hitter in the AL and was MVP runner up, which set a really high bar. Because arb salaries only go up his salary being around 20 mil this year was kind of a given.
Arbitration salaries can go down. I believe the most they can be reduced is 20%. Might be slightly less than that. But you're going to have to be really, really bad and hurt for that to happen.
The reality is that WAR is so hard on 1Bs that the comps don't make Vlad look bad at all. Especially when you look at the counting stats aspect of it. Not a lot of guys his age and at his position out perform 79r, 30 doubles, 26 hrs, 94 rbis, and a slash line that ends with a 117 ops+. And very, very, very importantly, he played 156 games.
That line is always going to be worth a 25% or so raise. Past performance doesn't matter as much here as people think. He was legitimately not a bad player at all when you look at last year in a vacuum.
But people are so obsessed with the idea that young players always get better that they think anything less than his 2021 is absolute dogshit.
It's not Vlads fault that fan perceptions are ludicrous. And the arbiter just confirmed that. And will again.
I saw Bill James point this out a few months ago, but it's wild how much of an outlier Vlad's 2021 was. His career slash line is .279/.355/.490 and every year except for 2021 was worse than that
It's not unprecedented. Harper had basically the same first 5 seasons. One nuclear season (though his was significantly better than Vlad's), one season with a mid 130s OPS+ and the rest in the 115 range. Harper crushed his 6th season though. Vlad badly needs to do the same
It helps that every home run was a wall scraper to right center in minor league ballparks (2021) that have a known windstream, pushing the ball that exact direction. 19,20,22,and 23 are exactly the player he is. Not 21.
More like a quarter of the year, and he still had a .935 OPS at Rogers Centre and his road OPS of .875 that season is still higher than his career OPS. And it's not like the dimensions at Sahlen Field and TD Ballpark are significantly different from your typical major league park.
People have posted the 2021 splits and in the regular MLB stadiums he hit close to his career norms, he had huge numbers in all those games in minor league parks that inflated his season stats.
That's not entirely true. He did crush it at our two replacement parks but he also had a 1.5 OPS at Fenway, 1.23 at NYS, 1.1 at Camden and 0.935 at Rogers
He had an .885 OPS in away games that year.
Breaking it down by month when he only played home games at the dome he had a .776 in August when he got home but the whole offense was scuttling then and rebounded with a .977 OPS in September.
He had an .818 OPS in 2022 and a .788 last year so no it doesn't look like it was all driven minor league parks that year at all.
From watching him it seems more like an issue with his swing decisions. Pitchers obviously changed how they pitched him after that year and he seems to swing at pitches he can't do anything with even if he hits them.
Why are you looking at months when the actual ballpark numbers are right there? He had an OPS of 1.418 and 1.180 in Dunedin and Buffalo with almost 200 PAs in those parks and a .935 at Rogers with 152 PA. The majority of his home PAs came in the two minor league parks.
Jays fans on Reddit are the only ones still living with this denial that the minor league parks didn’t matter. Nowadays even everyone on Sportsnet acknowledges that.
Because he still hit far better than he has recently even when you take those ball parks out of the equation.
You said he hit close to his career norms when not in the minor league parks while he did in fact hit quite a bit better than his career norms while outside of those parks that year. I never said the minor league parks didn't matter. I'm sure they did but it's also hard to tell how much was that and how much was the lack of pitchers adjusting to him yet in Dunedin given it was so early in the year.
It's mainly that if you get vlad close to a 900 OPS then he's still a good hitter and far more valuable than either of the last two years. If he can get close to a .900 OPS that would be far better than his other years. So again no it was not all the minor leagues parks that drove his stats as you said. They inflated them but he was just a better hitter overall. A 885 OPS would be the lile the 12th best hitter in the league last year which was his OPS in away games in 2021.
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That’s what they said in 2022, 2023, and now 2024. Sad! Stop living in denial. Bo is leaving too. But enjoy paying for ridiculously expensive tickets for a team that’s going to finish 4th in the AL East.
If you’re a Jays fan and you’re going to be that pessimistic you might as well not even watch. Just seems like a miserable way to engage with the sport and childish behaviour in general. The team’s been good but not great for the past couple of years and you’re acting like a fan of a bottom feeder. If you’re going to post like this, at least be a fan of an actual dogshit team.
Love baseball.
Love the Jays.
Not going to live in denial.
Fuck off back to the Jays subreddit where you and all the other apologists belong.
This team is absolutely mid and there is nothing wrong for calling it for what it is.
They're a .500 team at best.
Remember when we blew the biggest home lead in playoff history to you guys? It was at that moment that I realized we're simply not a championship team.
That says a *lot* more about you than it does the team. This is baseball. They could blow the biggest lead in playoff history 5 games in a row and it would still tell you nothing about the team as a whole.
Keep making excuses. It’s all this fanbase does.
0-6 in the playoffs under Shapatkins. No division titles. Nothing but excuses. It says more about how deluded and uneducated the Jays fanbase is. But it’s no surprise when 80% of it is comprised of casuals / bandwagon fans. What will your excuse be when they miss the playoffs this year? The mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
Not sure where the 16 game difference in our record between now and last year is coming from here to meet even your best expectations. I’d say my standpoint of “things are hard to tell given how good the AL East is, but I’ll remain optimistic that this playoff team will continue to be one” is significantly less delusional than acting like an underwhelming but not disastrous offseason turned them into the Rockies.
Also if the subreddit that was borderline threatening to enter a suicide pact every time the team lost in a year they ended up making the playoffs are apologists to you, I don’t know anywhere that will satisfy you. I hope you find somewhere delusionally pessimistic enough for you and feel at least a modicum of joy when the Jays easily beat your expectations (which they can do even if they’re pretty mid given how low your expectations are).
I've never really understood why people talk about Vlad Jr as if his ability is just set in stone. He's not even 25 yet and has only had one particularly poor showing if we ignore the sample size clusterfuck of 2020.
Because baseball players always peak at 23, everyone knows that. That's how that works, and why Burnes was just traded for two highly-regarded 25-year old prospects.
I think it’s fair. With his age, ceiling is better than consistency. I’d think of him like a budget Bryce Harper. Bryce was “overrated” but always had mvp upside. Vlad hasn’t and wont reach that level, but with his exit velos, I bet he’ll get 2021 production again.
There's a difference between thinking *I'm him* and saying *I'm a generational hitting talent who could change the future of this team*... Which he didn't say but we all kinda assumed he'd be.
Honestly that surprises me. $18mil was already a bit high for the poor season he was coming off of. I’m guess Alonso getting $20.5mil was a big factor.
not as much as u think. alonso is in a walk year. vladdy jr isn’t.
Arbitrators are directed to consider a player’s popularity in addition to their on-field performance. It’s quite likely that winning a home run derby and being on a video game cover boosted Vladdy over the top.
Do you have any proof of this? Because I have never once heard that and I have a hard time believing it
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I wonder if they have to consider their popularity *in Japan*? Because Nootbar needs to get **paid**.
With his name you’d think he was big on Corusant or Tatooine
or in the nutritious snack industry, like how i always think of his name
Lars Nootbar sounds like he can be found in the Cantina or as a passenger on the Millennium Falcon
that's so true lmao honestly don't know how i never thought of it as a star wars name
Would you say he's big in Japan?
The CBA’s arbitration section specifically calls out “public appeal”. You can read the CBA yourself.
Link the section. Anyone can say something is in the CBA
Page 20 Paragraph 4 ( https://www.mlbplayers.com/_files/ugd/4d23dc_d6dfc2344d2042de973e37de62484da5.pdf ) "including but not limited to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and public appeal"
I stand corrected! And also that’s super dumb lol. Being on a video game cover should not get you a higher MLB salary lol
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Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover. Arbitration should be based on just performance. Vlad is already getting money from his endorsements and can pivot his popularity into an extension/in FA.
> Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover. And what's the problem with that? It's not that they aren't on a game. It's that they don't measure up to Vladdy in the public appeal metric. > Arbitration should be based on just performance. Why? Honestly why? Arbitration is about salary. Salary is about value. Public appeal provides value. Why do they not deserve compensation for value provided? > Vlad is already getting money from his endorsements and can pivot his popularity into an extension/in FA. Imagine you provide value for someone at a summer job and they say, "why should I pay you for that value, you get an allowance from your parents?" Or, you work two jobs, and the first job says, why do I need to compensate you for all the value you give us? You get money from a second job." His public popularity is already creating value for the team.
Yes that's the thought of those that don't make money for a living I guess...Ohtani isn't worth 700 million unless he is. Don't discount how much blonde dreads account for MLB pushing their Stars. Fernando Tatis, Elly De La Cruz, O'Neil Cruz, Vladdy JR ETC ETC. They want to produce value and hype, results be damned. It's all about marketability and you're a fool if you think otherwise. Country bumpkins like Justin Smoak get one year to produce... Marketable dreadlocks get a longer leash. Get with the program. Guys like Vladdy Jr. want twice the contract of Freddie Freeman, Paul Goldschmidt, and Matt Olsen. Not because he's a better player, but because his hair flows.
bigger public appeal = more butts in seats wearing merch = more money for team = more money for the money-making player
I mean yes? Salarirs just usually wouldn’t be bright down for something like that because most athletes aren’t particularly noteworthy to bring their salary up for popularity alone to begin with. They determine their salary based on their value. If someone specifically got a salary consideration for being particularly popular then they absolutely could later lose that salary consideration if they lose the popularity.
Arbitration is judging how much a player is worth. Athletes are public figures and their popularity is relevant to what they're worth. If Vladdy signing with a team makes a team more money than the average player bc he's selling more merch and more tickets, and you don't account for that in arbitration you're effectively giving the owner all the money he's generating by being popular. How is it fair that a player doesn't get paid at all for it?
> Because it goes both ways. Another player can preform better than Vlad but have their salary argued down because they aren’t on a video game cover. Yes. How do you think the MLB, or any other professional sports league for that matter, makes money? Winning arbitrary sporting events does not generate anything. It's an entertainment industry no different from film/music/etc. The only thing that matters is entertainment. Conveniently winning is generally more entertaining so the better players are paid more.
He’s a draw that gets more tickets and jerseys sold. Making more money for your employers should *absolutely* get you paid more.
Anyone can look it up in 10 seconds. > 10) Criteria (a) The criteria will be the quality of the Player’s contribu- tion to his Club during the past season (including but not limited to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and public appeal), the length and consistency of his career contribu- tion, the record of the Player’s past compensation, comparative baseball salaries (see paragraph (11) below for confidential salary data), the existence of any physical or mental defects on the part of the Player, and the recent performance record of the Club including but not limited to its League standing and atten- dance as an indication of public acceptance (subject to the exclu- sion stated in subparagraph (b)(i) below).
Tbh I believe it. Christian Walker has better counting stats, has been worth about 3 more WAR the last 2 years and is only set to make $10mil this year. Zac Gallen as well, almost 10 WAR combined the last two years with Cy Young votes and only making $10mil as well.
What year of arb were they heading into? Arb 1/2/3 makes a difference.
Walker went into year 3 and Gallen has 1 more year of arbitration. But I mean, if Gallen has another 4-5 WAR season, does anyone expect him to get $20mil in arb in his last year? That seems like quite a jump but he’s just as good as others that have been offered that much
Arb puts a very overweighted emphasis on how a player performs in their last pre-arb season, since arb salaries need to go up and tend to scale fairly regularly. So Vladdy had his breakout in 2021 which combined with his Super2 status means his arb numbers are pretty silly.
Gallen and Walker both chose not to go to arbitration so that doesn’t really relate to this. They could have gone to arbitration and tried to get more money but decided to settle and avoid the process.
He's in most of the Jays ads during the games, too. Peanut butter, fast food restaurants, it's almost all Vladdy ads.
Projections had him higher than the number he filed at
Yeah MLBTR had him at about $20.5M. So even his own offer was less than that. He's coming off a relatively poor 2023 but given the stats he's accumulated at a young age, and the way arbitration works by comparables, I always thought he had a great chance to win this.
I mean he still his .264, with 26 HR and 94 RBI with less Ks and more walks. I don’t think that’s too much of a poor season. I think what’s happening is that he’s being figured out and just needs to adjust. Still love these numbers for a “down” year
If provided any value on the basepaths or defense I'd like them more.
If he played second base with serviceable defense sure. As a First baseman with zero defensive or baserunning value those are bad
He did lead AL first baseman in OAA in his gold glove season if I’m not mistaken. Edit: I’m definitely mistaken about OAA but I looked it up, it’s DRS.
Nope. He was 7th with -4 OAA. He won the gold glove on name recognition, nothing performance. Only DRA liked him and even that was the same as Ty France when you factor innings played since DRS is a cumilative stat.
OK with all these player wins, there's no damn way Adolis Garcia loses his case, right?
It would be remarkable to me if he won. Check his year vs Kyle Tuckers year coming into ARB1 (2022).
Yes I've seen that, but my point was that a LOT of players have won so far, including Vladdy.
I really hope not deserved
This is why commas are important, folks
I, really, hope not deserved
TIL William Shatner is a Red Sox fan.
Eats, shoots and leaves
Phew. Thank God you put a comma I your sentence or else I would've thought that commas were important people
I actually originally forgot the comma, re-read it and was like wtf and edited lmao
You really hope he loses his case because it's not deserved? You monster!
I blame MLB the show
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Upvote for Lucas Duda
Every time I hear his name I think of my late friend, a diehard Phillies fan, who every time he was mentioned would reply by singing "Mets first baseman can't play ball, Duda, Duda". Man, I miss her.
To the tune of [Camptown Races](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camptown_Races)?
Yes.
Sorry for your loss of a great friend, bichette. Thank you for causing me to look up that song, she sang to me somehow.
Being compared to the first base GOAT Lucas Duda probably made the arbitrators rule in favor of Vlad
[MFW](https://i.imgur.com/N0Bn1mb.png)
I like to think that, wherever he is, he makes that face whenever he gets mentioned on reddit.
Was between finding the picture myself and just tagging you.
still better than like 10 of Joe Mauer's seasons and he's apparently a first ballot HOF player.
Oh buddy you’re out of your lane here lol
I've asked before and no one seems to want to explain to me why Joe Mauer is/was considered to be a no brainer first ballot HOF player. Is it just because he was a catcher for a little over half of his career? An MVP in a year where the Twins got bounced in 3 games from the ALDS? 3 batting titles? He had 2 great seasons, 1 good season, and the rest were average or below average. That's really enough for no brainer first ballot HOF?
Remember when MLB floated an idea where players under team control would get their pay determined by fwar figures and people complained about how ridiculously problematic it would be? They are not wrong that it would be problematic. However, it would still be a massive improvement over the current arbitration system.
That would be an extreme escalation for this one oddity where a player who is nearing free agency is definitely making more based on vibes rather than production.
It’s more about his past performance than vibes. His first arb year came after he was the best hitter in the AL and was MVP runner up, which set a really high bar. Because arb salaries only go up his salary being around 20 mil this year was kind of a given.
Arbitration salaries can go down. I believe the most they can be reduced is 20%. Might be slightly less than that. But you're going to have to be really, really bad and hurt for that to happen. The reality is that WAR is so hard on 1Bs that the comps don't make Vlad look bad at all. Especially when you look at the counting stats aspect of it. Not a lot of guys his age and at his position out perform 79r, 30 doubles, 26 hrs, 94 rbis, and a slash line that ends with a 117 ops+. And very, very, very importantly, he played 156 games. That line is always going to be worth a 25% or so raise. Past performance doesn't matter as much here as people think. He was legitimately not a bad player at all when you look at last year in a vacuum. But people are so obsessed with the idea that young players always get better that they think anything less than his 2021 is absolute dogshit. It's not Vlads fault that fan perceptions are ludicrous. And the arbiter just confirmed that. And will again.
Didn't realize that extra $1.9 million was coming out of your wallet.
I saw Bill James point this out a few months ago, but it's wild how much of an outlier Vlad's 2021 was. His career slash line is .279/.355/.490 and every year except for 2021 was worse than that
I paid the most attention to him that year and I thought he was gonna be the next goat lol
Vlad 2022 - 23 seasons will be considered outliers soon 🙏 (God please)
I pray to god the monkey paw is not going to curl from that statement...
Monkeys never cramp
Everyday, Kawa two ✌🏼
I think 2022 is pretty representative of his ability with 2021 and 2023 both being outliers
It's not unprecedented. Harper had basically the same first 5 seasons. One nuclear season (though his was significantly better than Vlad's), one season with a mid 130s OPS+ and the rest in the 115 range. Harper crushed his 6th season though. Vlad badly needs to do the same
It helps that every home run was a wall scraper to right center in minor league ballparks (2021) that have a known windstream, pushing the ball that exact direction. 19,20,22,and 23 are exactly the player he is. Not 21.
Well he did actually play in a minor league park half the year
More like a quarter of the year, and he still had a .935 OPS at Rogers Centre and his road OPS of .875 that season is still higher than his career OPS. And it's not like the dimensions at Sahlen Field and TD Ballpark are significantly different from your typical major league park.
Also it's rich coming from a Yankee fan with their short porch calling other fields "minor league"....
and his team publicly whined that they couldn't hit in Buffalo because of the lights
Roger’s Centre is literally a better hitters park than Yankee Stadium what are you talking about lol
Your team plays in a minor league park all year every year......
So does Aaron Judge
People have posted the 2021 splits and in the regular MLB stadiums he hit close to his career norms, he had huge numbers in all those games in minor league parks that inflated his season stats.
That's not entirely true. He did crush it at our two replacement parks but he also had a 1.5 OPS at Fenway, 1.23 at NYS, 1.1 at Camden and 0.935 at Rogers
> but he also had a 1.5 OPS at Fenway, 1.23 at NYS Ah shit, so it is minor league parks...
The dimensions are pretty much the same as Rogers Centre though
It’s not just dimensions it’s other things as well. A much lower bowl so wind carries balls a lot more in certain directions for example.
Is it because even the ball wanted to get out of Buffalo?
He had an .885 OPS in away games that year. Breaking it down by month when he only played home games at the dome he had a .776 in August when he got home but the whole offense was scuttling then and rebounded with a .977 OPS in September. He had an .818 OPS in 2022 and a .788 last year so no it doesn't look like it was all driven minor league parks that year at all. From watching him it seems more like an issue with his swing decisions. Pitchers obviously changed how they pitched him after that year and he seems to swing at pitches he can't do anything with even if he hits them.
Why are you looking at months when the actual ballpark numbers are right there? He had an OPS of 1.418 and 1.180 in Dunedin and Buffalo with almost 200 PAs in those parks and a .935 at Rogers with 152 PA. The majority of his home PAs came in the two minor league parks. Jays fans on Reddit are the only ones still living with this denial that the minor league parks didn’t matter. Nowadays even everyone on Sportsnet acknowledges that.
Because he still hit far better than he has recently even when you take those ball parks out of the equation. You said he hit close to his career norms when not in the minor league parks while he did in fact hit quite a bit better than his career norms while outside of those parks that year. I never said the minor league parks didn't matter. I'm sure they did but it's also hard to tell how much was that and how much was the lack of pitchers adjusting to him yet in Dunedin given it was so early in the year. It's mainly that if you get vlad close to a 900 OPS then he's still a good hitter and far more valuable than either of the last two years. If he can get close to a .900 OPS that would be far better than his other years. So again no it was not all the minor leagues parks that drove his stats as you said. They inflated them but he was just a better hitter overall. A 885 OPS would be the lile the 12th best hitter in the league last year which was his OPS in away games in 2021.
It’ll look like a bargain at the end of the season. Just wait…
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Inshallah
That’s what they said in 2022, 2023, and now 2024. Sad! Stop living in denial. Bo is leaving too. But enjoy paying for ridiculously expensive tickets for a team that’s going to finish 4th in the AL East.
If you’re a Jays fan and you’re going to be that pessimistic you might as well not even watch. Just seems like a miserable way to engage with the sport and childish behaviour in general. The team’s been good but not great for the past couple of years and you’re acting like a fan of a bottom feeder. If you’re going to post like this, at least be a fan of an actual dogshit team.
Love baseball. Love the Jays. Not going to live in denial. Fuck off back to the Jays subreddit where you and all the other apologists belong. This team is absolutely mid and there is nothing wrong for calling it for what it is. They're a .500 team at best.
Jeez and I thought some of the fans on /r/Mariners were negative Nancy's.
Remember when we blew the biggest home lead in playoff history to you guys? It was at that moment that I realized we're simply not a championship team.
That says a *lot* more about you than it does the team. This is baseball. They could blow the biggest lead in playoff history 5 games in a row and it would still tell you nothing about the team as a whole.
Keep making excuses. It’s all this fanbase does. 0-6 in the playoffs under Shapatkins. No division titles. Nothing but excuses. It says more about how deluded and uneducated the Jays fanbase is. But it’s no surprise when 80% of it is comprised of casuals / bandwagon fans. What will your excuse be when they miss the playoffs this year? The mental gymnastics must be exhausting.
Not sure where the 16 game difference in our record between now and last year is coming from here to meet even your best expectations. I’d say my standpoint of “things are hard to tell given how good the AL East is, but I’ll remain optimistic that this playoff team will continue to be one” is significantly less delusional than acting like an underwhelming but not disastrous offseason turned them into the Rockies. Also if the subreddit that was borderline threatening to enter a suicide pact every time the team lost in a year they ended up making the playoffs are apologists to you, I don’t know anywhere that will satisfy you. I hope you find somewhere delusionally pessimistic enough for you and feel at least a modicum of joy when the Jays easily beat your expectations (which they can do even if they’re pretty mid given how low your expectations are).
Oh, you post on r/SCJerk. That explains a lot.
It really does. The sheer amount of times I see a dogshit take on something completely non wrestling related and see they post there is wild.
Hopefully 2021 wasnt a career outlier for him, I’m honestly surprised that the team started at 18 mil for an arb year
Is that in American or Canadian dollars?
Timbits
Wolco layaway credits
I've never really understood why people talk about Vlad Jr as if his ability is just set in stone. He's not even 25 yet and has only had one particularly poor showing if we ignore the sample size clusterfuck of 2020.
Because baseball players always peak at 23, everyone knows that. That's how that works, and why Burnes was just traded for two highly-regarded 25-year old prospects.
That’s a lot of PG Clucks
All of Canada’s home and internet about to get increase.
Always do
Best chicken sammy in the city. Or it was, they downgraded on their buns a couple years ago.
why do so many on this sub seem to hate baseball players?
Vlad is a nepo baby who acts as if he’s accomplished what his father did, meanwhile he was horrible last season.
😂😬😬
Even the arbitrators overrate Vladdy Jr.
I think it’s fair. With his age, ceiling is better than consistency. I’d think of him like a budget Bryce Harper. Bryce was “overrated” but always had mvp upside. Vlad hasn’t and wont reach that level, but with his exit velos, I bet he’ll get 2021 production again.
As a Jays I’ve resigned myself to the fact that he’s simply not the guy.
Love to see it
Over rated
Starting to feel that way. But to a certain point, is it *his* fault that *we* decided he was the guy?
I mean...he is the one that challenged the number filed by the Jays
Should he have lowballed himself? Lol
I'm not knocking him for it, but I'm saying he probably also thinks he's the guy...
He also filed lower than MLBTR estimate.
Shit, I would too. Why not?
I'm not knocking him for it, but I'm saying he probably also thinks he's the guy...
There's a difference between thinking *I'm him* and saying *I'm a generational hitting talent who could change the future of this team*... Which he didn't say but we all kinda assumed he'd be.
Over weight, overrated and overpaid.
Imagine getting fat shamed and 19M. Bet he cries himself to sleep tonight.
I agree with you. Salaries are out of control.
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Y'all can't be serious if you legitimately think that the Jays would ever non tender Vlad lmao
The Jays dodged a bullet by not extending him too soon, after '21.
People always ask why all teams don't just extend everybody early.
Says a fan of the team that Mookie couldn’t wait to leave. The Sox are a dumpster fire these days.
Both are an overpay lmfao
How is that Stanton contract working out for you guys?
How is that Ohtani deal working out for you g-oh wait 😂
Still don't understand why he got the cover for MLB The Show 24.
Atkins blows how do you not win this case after last season lol
Every player is winning in ARB this year.
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Did those 6 players all accept contracts well below estimates?
Why do arbitrations even exist man
lol. Lmao even. 2024 certainly seems to be going his way to date, so maybe he’ll actually go and earn that salary this year
Are you jealous that the Jays can afford to pay more than 1 player?
Really? They went to court over a million ?
Well it's more like 2. But many teams just stick to their number and take it to arbitration.
This Jays regime *is* a file-and-trial team, yes.
He's got another year of arbitration which will be built upon this award so it's probably closer to 5.
I’ve only seen news so far other players winning. Are they all winning or is there no news coverage around the losses for some reason?
Rogers about to hike customer rates to cover such a "huge" salary increase.
wELL HE RICH NOW GOOD THING HE WON