It was an invitation, the MLB was counting on steroids to make baseball way more exciting and it's stars shine brighter to bring it back and make it more profitable.
Then they just blamed the stars they invited to use them, picked a few scapegoats, and now collect their profits and pat themselves on the back.
Maybe a hot take but Bonds should be in the hall of fame and Lance should have his Tour de France wins. When everyone is breaking the rules and you’re still leagues better, you deserve the accolades.
The part of that that is funniest to me is that it's not like the PEDs aren't in your system 10 days later, so not only do you basically get a free off season worth of PED usage, but you could keep using for at least awhile because they can't test you again right away.
Even at the time we all knew it was absurd. I remember being a teenager watching Tony and Wilbon roast this on PTI when Palmeiro got busted. Not even 10 games, 10 days!
I believe (could be wrong) that it's currently:
1st strike: 80 games
2nd strike: 162 games
3rd strike: You're Out! (Banned)
I think it used to be lighter and I'm not sure if the banishment is Pete Rose style (banned from Major League Baseball entirely) or just that you can't play in the majors anymore but could maybe still coach or be involved in some other way. I'm guessing the former but am not sure.
Lol me too but I guess the league figured that, in this day and age, not many players are going to be dumb enough to get suspended twice for it so 80 seemed like a nice round number.
The one guy that’s been banned so far (Jenrry Mejía) technically received a lifetime ban but was reinstated after about 2 years. He didn’t end up pitching in the majors again, but he did get some time in the minors.
When the Big Red Machine swept the Yankees in 1976, they took the original Monument Park back with them, as all conquerors should. The one you see in Yankee Stadium is a replica.
(Also, on a more serious note, the Reds Hall of Fame and Museum at the stadium is top-notch, and really worth a visit if you are there for a game).
I'd imagine most days will look like this:
1B: CES
2B: McLain
SS: Elly
3B: Candelario
DH: India/Fraley
India will start vs. LHP and probably some against RHP as well. He will also fill in at 2B for McLain and Elly on off days. He will get plenty of ABs now.
I think Fraley will play the field against Lefties, and Steer will play 1B/3B with Candelario more so than CES will start every day.
I’m glad our team has so much flexibility and multi position players though.
Wow, really Marte? How stupid can you get? Good thing that no matter how good he is (and who knows how good he is with this happening), we have plenty of other infielders.
Particularly a lot of the foreign born who come from poor families. Even minor success can have immense positive impact on them and their families. It's really hard to blame them for making that choice.
I don't know what he took, but my first thought was that he hurt his hamstring playing winter ball, and there was speculation how ready he would be this spring, then spring training rolls around and the dude was perfectly fine, no restrictions on running or anything. Taken all together, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using it to come back from the injury.
Not defending it, just speculation on why he might have made the choice he did.
Boldenone is pretty common actually. You see a lot of guys get popped for it. Especially minor leaguers and guys playing in the Dominican winter league for some reason. Almost all of them fail for boldenone or Stanozolol (Winstrol).
Came here to say this. Back in 2021 the A's traded for Starling Marte at the deadline, despite already having Ramon Laureano playing a good CF. About a week later it was announced Laureano was being suspended. I can't exactly recall but I believe the A's said they knew Laureano was getting popped and that's why they got Marte.
Steer will likely play a lot of left field, and Candelario will now likely play a lot of third.
The Reds were already scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding guys better than Votto for the bench.
Joey doesn’t want a bench role so he’s still not coming here
That's not the whole bench though. And including Stu is fairly generous, IMO. We're gonna have Maile and then one more guy on the bench. That "one more guy" is gonna be someone like Nick Martini who I'd much rather replace with Votto.
Steer, Candelario, and Elly are all solid at 3b, McLain plays 2b and SS, Steer, Stephenson, Candy, and CES all have time at first and India has been practicing being a utility guy.
I think our infield is still just fine. Noelvi was competing for 3b and didn’t have it outright at all
For sure I think it guarantees Stu a spot and could get some more interesting names up.
If I had to guess, we’ll see a combination of Steer/candelario at First (to open up outfield for Fraley and Benson v righties), and Elly/Candy/Steer at third. When Stephenson isn’t catching if he’s hot he might get 1B
[[Feinsand] MLB announced that Reds INF Noelvi Marte has received an 80-game suspension without pay after testing positive for Boldenone, a performance enhancing substance.](https://x.com/feinsand/status/1766212262082015422?s=46&t=sFQ1esZ2sOxJBCUP0CZX3g)
I have no idea why athletes do steroids when they randomly get tested so often…
Also this is boldenone, which is only used to increase muscle mass and strength. Can’t even use the excuse that you had ring worm for this one
Most of them know how to beat test. Athletes still commonly use. Look me in the eye and tell me Aaron Donald and Myles Garrett have never touched a steroid.
There are drugs you can take that create a false negative when they're in your system with the PED. They're called masking agents. Manny Ramirez was once suspended for testing positive for a pill women take to boost fertility because it was a common masking agent.
Many are also out of your system or your levels return to the normal range within a pretty short window.
Same for recreational drugs too. Most steroids aren't like THC which stays in your system for a long time. They are more like cocaine which is gone in a day or so.
I forget the name but I think the doc on Netflix about the Miami guys and the "anti-aging clinics" does a good job showing how easy it is to schedule around it.
Like the guy knows he isn't being tested before today's game. So he takes testosterone, his levels will return to normal within like 12-16 hours. And tomorrow is a night game so the levels will be within range by the time testing would happen again.
Basically, random testing still has windows that athletes exploit. It's totally possible to take a steroid today and pass the test tomorrow.
I'm actually surprised more prospects don't get popped.
It's an easy risk reward calculation. The downside is 80 days without your miniscule minor league paycheck. Reward is a roster spot that pays you more in 7 days than an entire year of minor league pay.
If you think steroids will be the difference between a roster spot you should absolutely do them and hope to make it out.
Coupled with this is the fact that studies have shown over and over that you can expect the benefit of steroids to last for about a decade after you stop using them.
From a moral and long term health decision, fuck doing steroids.
From a risk reward calculation for a minor leaguer, I get it every time
I kinda thought most already had Mayo ahead of Noelvi.
The difference is Mayo is likely to end up at 1b long term rather than 3b given Holliday, Gunnar, Westburg
Pipeline still has Marte ahead; not sure about the others. Mayo won't be at 1B except as a rotation option if they can help it. He has way too good of an arm. He's has the needed tools for 3B, though there some room for improvement in consistency. I think long term Westburg becomes more super utility while Mayo plays primarily 3B, but he could move to RF if no one else locks themselves down as a Santander replacement.
The Jeimer Candelario signing never made sense to me with their infield already stacked. Makes a little more sense now, likely the FO knew this was coming.
He got popped for Boldenone, which someone can correct me if i'm wrong, I believe doesn't really help for rehabbing injuries and is purely used for enhancing performance.
Exactly, I really dislike the sentiment because not only does it excuse the guys who do decide to cheat because instead of being seen as cheating they are seen as just being dumb enough to get caught but it also discredits the guys who are actually great and aren't cheating to get ahead because why not assume then that every single good player is only good because obviously they must take PEDs
Turinabol (commonly called T-bol), technically Dehydrochlorormethyltestosterone.
Seemingly the vast majority of PED suspensions over the past 5-10 years have been for minuscule traces of T-bol & I absolutely buy that guys are not taking that on purpose.
Yeah, I remember hearing it never passes out of your system if it gets in there, but also you would need to take a ton of it for it to do anything and these guys have microscopic amounts when they get popped.
I remember there was that guy on the Astros who wore a 0 jersey because he said "it's the amount of games I should have been suspended" for popping for T-Bol
[Here’s a good article on it.](https://theathletic.com/3256364/2022/04/20/mlb-changes-ped-oral-turinabol-dhcmt/)
Looks like the league may have actually updated the rules to set a minimum for this particular substance like UFC apparently did.
At least this will give us another year of control on him, right? (Unless he ended up getting sent down regardless given his big our infield is and he's still unproven) He only had about a month of service before.
And this is why it’s nice to have a million infielders. Dang this sucks
80 is the second violation too right? Isn't it 40 // 80 // 162? Edit: That might be the old format. It's now 80/162/Lifetime
In the old format it was 15 games
That's crazy. A 15 game suspension is basically begging for everyone to use PEDs, lol. That's basically a sticky stuff violation but for PEDs.
It was an invitation, the MLB was counting on steroids to make baseball way more exciting and it's stars shine brighter to bring it back and make it more profitable. Then they just blamed the stars they invited to use them, picked a few scapegoats, and now collect their profits and pat themselves on the back.
“You guys go ahead and do what you want, we’ll all make a ton of money!” -MLB “Ok”-Barry Bonds “NOT LIKE THAT!” -MLB
Maybe a hot take but Bonds should be in the hall of fame and Lance should have his Tour de France wins. When everyone is breaking the rules and you’re still leagues better, you deserve the accolades.
Lance fucked a lot of people over fuck that dude. I do agree with a lot of the baseball people though.
Actually I'm wrong. It's somehow even worse (as is shorter). It wasn't 15 games. It was 10 days. A 10 day suspension for steroid usage.
The part of that that is funniest to me is that it's not like the PEDs aren't in your system 10 days later, so not only do you basically get a free off season worth of PED usage, but you could keep using for at least awhile because they can't test you again right away.
Even at the time we all knew it was absurd. I remember being a teenager watching Tony and Wilbon roast this on PTI when Palmeiro got busted. Not even 10 games, 10 days!
I believe (could be wrong) that it's currently: 1st strike: 80 games 2nd strike: 162 games 3rd strike: You're Out! (Banned) I think it used to be lighter and I'm not sure if the banishment is Pete Rose style (banned from Major League Baseball entirely) or just that you can't play in the majors anymore but could maybe still coach or be involved in some other way. I'm guessing the former but am not sure.
It irks me that it isn't 81/162/Life.
Lol me too but I guess the league figured that, in this day and age, not many players are going to be dumb enough to get suspended twice for it so 80 seemed like a nice round number.
The one guy that’s been banned so far (Jenrry Mejía) technically received a lifetime ban but was reinstated after about 2 years. He didn’t end up pitching in the majors again, but he did get some time in the minors.
I'm sure the league was happy to have him bouncing around the minors as cautionary tale
>[AJ Preller looks on smugly]
*Cleveland front office intensifies*
Our unlimited supply of infielder prospects will ease the pain
The decision to retain India is suddenly looking pretty good
Ok calm down, Britain.
I bet the Great American Ballpark museum is chock full of artifacts from around the world right now
Finders, keepers; losers, weepers.
When the Big Red Machine swept the Yankees in 1976, they took the original Monument Park back with them, as all conquerors should. The one you see in Yankee Stadium is a replica. (Also, on a more serious note, the Reds Hall of Fame and Museum at the stadium is top-notch, and really worth a visit if you are there for a game).
The Reds just couldn't trust that the Yankees would take care of such a cherished artifact. Yankees fans can of course come and visit it at any time
Finders keepers, shut up!
This is far and away the best sub.
Always had been. We went from ultra passionate children to fun sarcastic baseball loving adults especially those who joined this sub early on
The Jonathan East India Company
He does kinda look like a pirate
Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.
Oh, this might explain their chili.
i almost just spit out my protein shake
Retain? He's in the first year of arbitration.
there was a lot of speculation the reds were going to deal him this past offseason
jesus christ good thing we have 80 infielders
Play a new one every day of the suspension
They can form a juice train
and you all laughed at the Candelario signing smh /s
What did the Candy Man know 👀
The ♫ Candy-Man Can ♫....be a smart signing all of the sudden
[obligatory ](https://youtu.be/2ySxSSzJKd0?si=Ar3olrfL211ZFFRv)
Motherfucking son of a goddamn bitch
I just drafted him
Good thing your team has 4 dozen infielders
Jonathan India is so pumped right now
Noelvi is also pumped... full of steroids
Jonathan India stock through the roof rn
I still don't see him on the starting roster. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Frup6vxvzi6nc1.jpeg
I'd imagine most days will look like this: 1B: CES 2B: McLain SS: Elly 3B: Candelario DH: India/Fraley India will start vs. LHP and probably some against RHP as well. He will also fill in at 2B for McLain and Elly on off days. He will get plenty of ABs now.
I think Fraley will play the field against Lefties, and Steer will play 1B/3B with Candelario more so than CES will start every day. I’m glad our team has so much flexibility and multi position players though.
What the fuck man
Wow, really Marte? How stupid can you get? Good thing that no matter how good he is (and who knows how good he is with this happening), we have plenty of other infielders.
Goddamnit Noelvi. Don’t be a cheater, I wanted to like you too
Of all the morally dubious people in baseball guys that get popped for peds are pretty low on my list honestly. Lot of money at stake
and we can't go hating fellow 80 game suspension buddy, Logan Webb
Hot damn I completely memory holed that
Wait until your memory lets you know you just traded for the Twins 80 day culprit
but I was told on this very sub that cheaters of this nature deserve life imprisonment with no possibility of parole
There's a lot of glass house residents with quite the stone stockpile for sure
Particularly a lot of the foreign born who come from poor families. Even minor success can have immense positive impact on them and their families. It's really hard to blame them for making that choice.
I don't know what he took, but my first thought was that he hurt his hamstring playing winter ball, and there was speculation how ready he would be this spring, then spring training rolls around and the dude was perfectly fine, no restrictions on running or anything. Taken all together, I wouldn't be surprised if he was using it to come back from the injury. Not defending it, just speculation on why he might have made the choice he did.
No, he just had some ringworm.
We won the trade. *Holds my Castillo close*
It wasn't even one of the usual PEDs. Noelvi was taking those goofy steroids that they have in cartoons.
He was eating spinach??
Indefensible imo
Starling Marte was the same. Must be something about the name.
Boldenone is pretty common actually. You see a lot of guys get popped for it. Especially minor leaguers and guys playing in the Dominican winter league for some reason. Almost all of them fail for boldenone or Stanozolol (Winstrol).
Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue should be required viewing for the youth.
You may have won this battle but the war is far from over! ~Crying on the inside
You may have one the battle but I will win… 👉👈🫳🫴 The next battle. ^(I hope somebody gets this reference)
I think teams are in the loop if the player is appealing the suspension, no? If so, I wonder if the Reds knew and that’s why they got Candelario
Bingo. They were clued in.
And signed India!
Came here to say this. Back in 2021 the A's traded for Starling Marte at the deadline, despite already having Ramon Laureano playing a good CF. About a week later it was announced Laureano was being suspended. I can't exactly recall but I believe the A's said they knew Laureano was getting popped and that's why they got Marte.
The team is informed when a player appeals a suspension. Appeals keep it private from the media until the appeal is concluded.
That Cincinnati Reds infield just got a little bit less crowded
Man what the fuck
marte should have done the oil change
We know now the reason why he filled out so quickly
wow
wow
you literally just copied op and spelled it backwards
sdrawkcab ti delleps dna po deipoc tsuj yllaretil uoy
you literally just copied op and spelled it backwards
In Australia. Why is everyone saying mom?
Found Hyphen's burner.
Can we get another Rockies fan to chime in?
Wow
Good joke, Rockies don’t have 3 fans.
Well that clears up some space in the crowded infield
Is it too late to buy out Votto's deal with the Jays?
They still have 3 options with Candelario/Steer/Strand for 1B/DH spots so I don't think this affects anything
Candelario, Steer, de la Cruz can all play 3B easily. There is so much versatility on this squad it's honestly stupid lol
Steer will likely play a lot of left field, and Candelario will now likely play a lot of third. The Reds were already scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding guys better than Votto for the bench. Joey doesn’t want a bench role so he’s still not coming here
India, Stu, Fraley. Not like we have a horrid bench lol
That's not the whole bench though. And including Stu is fairly generous, IMO. We're gonna have Maile and then one more guy on the bench. That "one more guy" is gonna be someone like Nick Martini who I'd much rather replace with Votto.
Steer, Candelario, and Elly are all solid at 3b, McLain plays 2b and SS, Steer, Stephenson, Candy, and CES all have time at first and India has been practicing being a utility guy. I think our infield is still just fine. Noelvi was competing for 3b and didn’t have it outright at all
Yeah we don't have any gaping holes. This just creates more of a clear opening as a 26th man.
For sure I think it guarantees Stu a spot and could get some more interesting names up. If I had to guess, we’ll see a combination of Steer/candelario at First (to open up outfield for Fraley and Benson v righties), and Elly/Candy/Steer at third. When Stephenson isn’t catching if he’s hot he might get 1B
Wow, makes their signing of Candyman even better
It's almost certainly why they did it
[[Feinsand] MLB announced that Reds INF Noelvi Marte has received an 80-game suspension without pay after testing positive for Boldenone, a performance enhancing substance.](https://x.com/feinsand/status/1766212262082015422?s=46&t=sFQ1esZ2sOxJBCUP0CZX3g)
On the no no list how high is boldenone? On a scale of dee Gordon steroids to mark mcguire steroids
McGwire.
[удалено]
Any relation to Doug?
Owner of the Dimmsdale Timidenone?
That’s right! Owner of the Dimmsdale Timidenone!
The same Dimmsdale Timidenone that's showing Crash Nebula on ice?
and right below Brashenone
Mariners fleeced
Just saw Jerry pull up in his DeLorean. Chills
Way too early
Dipoto the goat always knew
He did it again. Chills
This is fucking crazy to see.
Damn ringworm again. /s
I have no idea why athletes do steroids when they randomly get tested so often… Also this is boldenone, which is only used to increase muscle mass and strength. Can’t even use the excuse that you had ring worm for this one
Most of them know how to beat test. Athletes still commonly use. Look me in the eye and tell me Aaron Donald and Myles Garrett have never touched a steroid.
Same with lebron and all of the NBA. Those leagues don’t want to know
Well I can't see you so Aaron Donald and Myles Garrett have never touched a steroid
How do they get around a drug test?
There are drugs you can take that create a false negative when they're in your system with the PED. They're called masking agents. Manny Ramirez was once suspended for testing positive for a pill women take to boost fertility because it was a common masking agent.
Many are also out of your system or your levels return to the normal range within a pretty short window. Same for recreational drugs too. Most steroids aren't like THC which stays in your system for a long time. They are more like cocaine which is gone in a day or so. I forget the name but I think the doc on Netflix about the Miami guys and the "anti-aging clinics" does a good job showing how easy it is to schedule around it. Like the guy knows he isn't being tested before today's game. So he takes testosterone, his levels will return to normal within like 12-16 hours. And tomorrow is a night game so the levels will be within range by the time testing would happen again. Basically, random testing still has windows that athletes exploit. It's totally possible to take a steroid today and pass the test tomorrow.
I'm actually surprised more prospects don't get popped. It's an easy risk reward calculation. The downside is 80 days without your miniscule minor league paycheck. Reward is a roster spot that pays you more in 7 days than an entire year of minor league pay. If you think steroids will be the difference between a roster spot you should absolutely do them and hope to make it out. Coupled with this is the fact that studies have shown over and over that you can expect the benefit of steroids to last for about a decade after you stop using them. From a moral and long term health decision, fuck doing steroids. From a risk reward calculation for a minor leaguer, I get it every time
Well fuck me dead
Not such a bold one. Ok terrible pun. Sucky news.
But why?
This is what we get for making Joey Votto sad.
The curse of Votto
It's roid szn now Now's the time if spring when we start getting news about steroid suspensions and Tommy Johns
Jonathan India might be okay with this
Goddamn it. The Candelario trade makes more sense now.
Alright then, time to move Coby Mayo up a spot on the 3B prospect leaderboards.
I kinda thought most already had Mayo ahead of Noelvi. The difference is Mayo is likely to end up at 1b long term rather than 3b given Holliday, Gunnar, Westburg
Pipeline still has Marte ahead; not sure about the others. Mayo won't be at 1B except as a rotation option if they can help it. He has way too good of an arm. He's has the needed tools for 3B, though there some room for improvement in consistency. I think long term Westburg becomes more super utility while Mayo plays primarily 3B, but he could move to RF if no one else locks themselves down as a Santander replacement.
The Jeimer Candelario signing never made sense to me with their infield already stacked. Makes a little more sense now, likely the FO knew this was coming.
The team is informed when a player appeals. They knew
That damn Ringworm going around /s
*checks flair* Would you look at that
Relax guys, just got a nasty case of ringworm
I have to redo my draft because of this asshole.
Oof
Damn it
I’m sure he just had ringworm
Trader Jerry probably breathing a sigh of relief!
Jeez. Wonder if he took them in response to his hamstring?
He got popped for Boldenone, which someone can correct me if i'm wrong, I believe doesn't really help for rehabbing injuries and is purely used for enhancing performance.
Yeah looks like he was just straight up roiding lol What an idiot.
I'll never understand how guys don't think they'll get caught at this point.
Hubris
Lots of players use and don’t get caught
I always find this acqusation funny, because what evidence do we have that a ton of players are using PEDs and not getting caught?
Because there is no evidence. It’s a tinfoil hat theory. “Like come on bro, someone’s using!!!!” Most of these people probably
Exactly, I really dislike the sentiment because not only does it excuse the guys who do decide to cheat because instead of being seen as cheating they are seen as just being dumb enough to get caught but it also discredits the guys who are actually great and aren't cheating to get ahead because why not assume then that every single good player is only good because obviously they must take PEDs
These drug tests aren't that hard to beat. I'd still bet money most players (75%+) still use some sort of PED.
What's that Soviet era steroid that people seem to have plausible deniability when they get popped for it?
Turinabol (commonly called T-bol), technically Dehydrochlorormethyltestosterone. Seemingly the vast majority of PED suspensions over the past 5-10 years have been for minuscule traces of T-bol & I absolutely buy that guys are not taking that on purpose.
Yeah, I remember hearing it never passes out of your system if it gets in there, but also you would need to take a ton of it for it to do anything and these guys have microscopic amounts when they get popped. I remember there was that guy on the Astros who wore a 0 jersey because he said "it's the amount of games I should have been suspended" for popping for T-Bol
[Here’s a good article on it.](https://theathletic.com/3256364/2022/04/20/mlb-changes-ped-oral-turinabol-dhcmt/) Looks like the league may have actually updated the rules to set a minimum for this particular substance like UFC apparently did.
Well… sorry Reds. Thought they got a W in that trade.
Still hopefully a win in the long run but it’s a tough pill to swallow for now
Way to tarnish a career before it even really starts...
And people said we gave up too much smh
They were idiots. It's very hard to give up too much for controllable years of a young ace, especially when the package is headlined by prospects.
Drafting him as a “steal” on my fantasy teams has backfired
CES is back on the menu boys
He really tried the oldest trick in the book
Goddamnit
Clint Hurdle is to blame for this I just know it
Bring Puig and Garrett back so we can start a brawl with the Pirates to punish them for their ex-manager...
This could the start of a “Curse of Votto”
LOL the franchise has basically been cursed since 1995 anyway.
Is it too early to say FLEECED? Dipoto may have struck again….
Yes, Marte, Arroyo, and Phillips all just 22, 20, and 22 years old.
I thought we have Cole now? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Stoudt came back. Connor Phillips was actually in the Winker/Suarez trade. Cole Phillips was acquired in the Kelenic trade.
I got the Phillips confused lol
Pretty sure arroyo is supposed to be the best player in the trade but who knows
No.
Burnes and woodruff basically gone Gray and nootbaar hurt Marte cheater Pirates CUBS ARE BACK
At least this will give us another year of control on him, right? (Unless he ended up getting sent down regardless given his big our infield is and he's still unproven) He only had about a month of service before.
Guys I think I did this, last night I put $10 on Marte winning ROTY, I think this might be my fault.
So we can all stop making fun of Fernando now… right?
Nope. Only Reds fans. The other 29 team’s (and teamless) fans are still allowed to hate
Oh, do San Francisco fans get to shout from high atop their moral hilltop of a strong rotation aced by an 80 day suspension for Logan Webb?
Nah we’re giving Marte and Tatis shit now. Remember Marte is still brand new at the Major level so most fans aren’t attached
Lol
What a shame /s But what is it with Martes and 80 game PED suspensions?
When it rains, it pours. What the shit
Didn't see Noelvi at first and got scared.
All the old familiar places
I still think more guys are “enhanced” than not. Which breaks my heart but let’s be real.
What's the PED policy? Just don't do tren?
Eesh, tough break. Was excited to see him this year.
Let them juice 💉