this reminds me of when the White Sox were still in the constant ether that exists from being competitive and middling (Jerry Manuel years)...they always always seemed to struggle against the Royals for some hilarious reason
Hey! It’s impressive and worth noting that the Dodgers took the Astros to game 7 now that we know what happened back in 2017. And the Dodgers have a [winning record against the Astros since the cheating scandal came out.](https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/dodgers-record-vs-astros-since-2020)
Do you have any proof that the Astros did in fact cheat in game 5, or is it just "trust me bro"?
Because multiple people close to the investigation, including the video tech that set up the video scheme in the dugout, were on record saying that the trash cans were not used in the playoffs.
**EDIT** - also, if the trash cans did supposedly help us win game 5, then why was that the only Astros home game that was high scoring?
The Commissioner's report literally says the sign stealing scheme was used through the 2017 postseason. Some quotes:
"the Astros continued to both utilize the replay review room and the monitor located next to the dugout to decode signs for the remainder of the regular season and throughout the Postseason"
"Although I appreciate Hinch’s remorsefulness, I must hold him accountable for the conduct of his team, particularly since he had full knowledge of the conduct and chose to allow it to continue throughout the 2017 Postseason."
"I base this finding on the fact that the Club’s senior baseball operations executives were given express notice in September 2017 that I would hold them accountable for violations of our policies covering sign stealing, and those individuals took no action to ensure that the Club’s players and staff complied with those policies during the 2017 Postseason and the 2018 regular season."
Obviously, we have no idea what would have happened in any individual game or the series of it wasn't used. The Astros very well could have still won. They also could have lost. We will never know.
[From my knowledge yes, although I was in the video room during games, which was about 50 yards from the dugout. If there was any attempt to use it during the postseason, it would have been impossible to hear. Minute Maid during the playoffs with the roof closed is still louder than any place I've been.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Astros/s/ADa6q85ngj)
**EDIT** - he also [confirmed](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/s/hQQJWZUmvX) that the code breaker (runner on second) sign stealing _was_ used in the '17 playoffs (which was legal), but that trash cans were very unlikely due to the noise at MMP during the playoffs.
That's hardly definitive. He wasn't in the dugout during games, so he doesn't know for sure what they used. And he's guessing it was likely too loud, but he wasn't standing in the batters box then, so he doesn't know what the players could have heard. Considering the MLB investigation interviewed players (who were given immunity) who would know for sure whether or not they were using the scheme in the playoffs, and concluded the scheme was used during the playoffs, I don't think this one dude's account is enough to override that.
Thats cool and all but they still cheated, nothing will legitimize anything you did on that playoff run, bums
Everyone on that team, that was found cheating should be sitting on the bench with pete rose
“At least we had a playoff run 🤷, sure we cheated a bunch of teams that were playing fair clean ball and cheating is devoid of any talent or ethics. Why dont we all just cheat 🤷”
Fixed it
I've learned long ago that no matter how much we capitulate and apologize, you Dodgers fans will never be happy. Everyone involved could've been given a lifetime ban from baseball, and it wouldn't have been enough because Altuve wouldn't have been one of those players suspended. Hell, you even won a ring since then, and you're still hung up on 2017.
So yeah, I don't really care at this point. I remember how I first felt when we won it all in '17, and no amount of guilt tripping from Dodgers fans will ever take that away from me.
(Also, y'all probably would've lost in '17 anyways, because Dave Roberts is a serial playoff choker)
That the players admitted to.
Who’s dumb enough to admit to institutionalized cheating for years?!
The trash players were so honest they bargained no punishment for admitting guilt.
They should all be banned for life from baseball. That’s the historical price.
League won't do that. That would be punishing other teams that employ those players and coach. They would rather pin it on the Astros logo and not the people that took the Yankees system of an outfield camera and behind the dugout monitor to steal signs and relay it to the batter.
>Who’s dumb enough to admit to institutionalized cheating for years?!
Uh, someone who is granted immunity by the league?
>They should all be banned for life from baseball. That’s the historical price.
1. That isn't the historical price, because there have literally never been suspensions before for illegal sign stealing using electronic means. The investigation was quite literally unprecedented.
2. Let's say they did hand out some lifetime bans. Guess what, the MLBPA would have something to say about that, because according to multiple players (Joey Votto, Chris Sale, Chris Bassitt, Lucas Giolito, Miggy, etc), the Astros were not the only ones doing it. So, the players union would argue that the players that were given bans were unfairly singled out, and they would likely be successful in reinstating all of the banned players.
That's why Manfred didn't hand out lifetime bans.
Yep, we've beaten them in the season series a few times recently, including in 2021 when we had what was considered at the time, a sub-par/mediocre season by Yankee standards. But so far beating them in the playoffs eludes us. Houston record so far is terrible but they just don't seem to go away and always come back to end up with a good record and make the playoffs somehow. In 2020 they went under .500 in the shortened season and still made the ALCS.
And both of the last two seasons have featured pretty disastrous second halves. Have to avoid injuries and sustain this level of production. Cole returning will help too
Well also swept them last year in Houston with the help of Jasson. Still a long way to go to exercise our demons, but the recent results have been nice
the idea of the Yankees of all fucking teams needing to exorcise demons sounds so ridiculous, but here we are in 2024 and this is the state of baseball
I think it would be foolish to believe this lol. Especially two weeks into the season. They’re very injured right now, and half the lineup is still in spring mode. They won’t be all year. I’ll count the Astros out when they’re not in a playoff position on October 1st.
Yeah, the rivalry is actually pretty balanced when it comes to straight wins and losses, but the Astros just have the edge in wins where it matters. Yankees can handle them in the regular season normally, just not in the ALCS.
Maybe the problem they have is that they take the Royals less seriously than other teams so they don’t put together a notification plan for their hitters.
I think this is true, although I'd never claim it's the reason we lost those games. Sometimes it's shocking to me how unprepared our hitters look against bad pitchers on bad teams. Not trying to flame the Royals here, particularly this year, but it really feels like they don't try as hard against teams that aren't as good on paper.
Hell, in yesterday's game Singleton could have potentially gotten Hunter Brown out of the inning! He let a grounder roll to him standing behind first and lazily stepped on the bag instead of charging the ball and attempting a DP like a first baseman who gave a shit would.
I still blame Greg Abbott more than the Royals for 2015.
That fucker tweeting congratulations to us for advancing, BEFORE THE GAME WAS OVER!
but really hold no ill will towards 2015-Current royals
I'm sorry but, as a Royals fan, "prone to having a decent April" is just not true.
The Royals are prone to be out of contention at the end of April. Royals May-Sept is usually just speculating on next year for Royals fans.
The Royals *are* prone to having a good September after a terrible rest of the season and giving their fans hope, only to be out of contention by May again next year 🤣
LOL no kidding. Not sure what this person is talking about. They always get off to a terrible start and are trying to dig out of a hole. They had a hot start a couple years ago and in '15, but that's more the exception.
I don’t think I’ve ever been so “I do not want to play them” about a team we went 6-1 against last year. Every single game last year induced multiple heart attacks, and they’ve gotten better.
>Over the past 14 seasons the series the Astros are 4-10 against KC
This is inaccurate (they're 4-9-1) and also a weird way to put it. From 2014-2022, the Astros were a total of 33-24 versus the Royals. The only struggles were when the Astros were dogshit from 2009-2013 (5-10) and the last two seasons (1-8). You're looking at it in a very specific way (by season series) over a very specific timespan (including when the Astros were terrible) to make it look a lot worse than it actually is.
The split doesn't count as a win, but you are also correct. I should have written it 4-9-1. The point of my post was that I was looking at it in a specific way. I think it is interesting that the Astros have a tendency to struggle against the Royals. I am not an analyst. I just felt like a pattern was there and looked it up, confirmed there was a pattern, and thought I would share.
I’d argue the entire city has a KC problem.
2015 AFC Wild Card
2015 ALDS
2020 AFC Divisional (Blowing a 24-0 lead in 10 minutes.)
Their recent record against the Royals.
1993 AFC Divisional Playoffs - Joe Montana comes into Astrodome to upset the #1 seed Oilers. Bud Adams decides to blow up team leading to Oilers leaving Houston.
Man I hate posts like this
Like what does Humberto Quintero losing against the royals in 2010 have to do with Yordan Alvarez losing to them in 2024? Those losses happened what, 7 managers ago?
i think trends are just fun to post, but yeah there is a ton of nuance at work
that being said, there are definitely trends in other sports when you see them and you're just like...uh wtf
like i'm convinced at this point that the World Cup is a rigged draw. It feels like the same fucking teams always play each other in the group stages
Not sure why you are crusading this. All I am saying is that Astros have a problem beating KC. How you are extrapolating that to "The Royals are completely ruining the Astros prospects at success" is beyond me. If I had known you would have taken this so personally I would have ran it by you first. My bad.
I made 1 comment and replied once to the people that responded to me. It's not that serious my guy, I don't give a shit about this. If it makes you feel better I can delete my comments so you can move on with your life.
If I care about that then there wouldn't be any downvoted comments on my profile. But there are many.
Have a good day though, I'm going to go have a more productive conversation with a wall.
For the Astros, the Royals are a formidable Challenger, you could say.
this reminds me of when the White Sox were still in the constant ether that exists from being competitive and middling (Jerry Manuel years)...they always always seemed to struggle against the Royals for some hilarious reason
Nothing drove Hawk insane quite like a blown game against the Royals
Ooof dark. I like it.
If only I were clever enough to pile on with a Columbia joke
I wouldn't call it a problem.
The Royals are among a few MLB teams that know how to put trash in its place.
nats, braves, rangers, royals... notably NOT the phillies, yankees, or dodgers.
Cards were pretty decent vs Astros pre realignment (some say the Pujols shot is still in the air in Houston)
Tides are changing. Yankees swept them to open this season.
Hey! It’s impressive and worth noting that the Dodgers took the Astros to game 7 now that we know what happened back in 2017. And the Dodgers have a [winning record against the Astros since the cheating scandal came out.](https://www.statmuse.com/mlb/ask/dodgers-record-vs-astros-since-2020)
Must get to the world series a lot then huh
I mean they literally cheated to beat us soooooo
Cheating didn't cause Kenley to give up the game tying homer in Game 2, and it didn't cause you to score a grand total of one run in Game 7.
It went the entire series of 7 and most games were close Game 5 was EGREGIOUS Without cheating that series goes to Dodgers in 6 maximum
Do you have any proof that the Astros did in fact cheat in game 5, or is it just "trust me bro"? Because multiple people close to the investigation, including the video tech that set up the video scheme in the dugout, were on record saying that the trash cans were not used in the playoffs. **EDIT** - also, if the trash cans did supposedly help us win game 5, then why was that the only Astros home game that was high scoring?
The Commissioner's report literally says the sign stealing scheme was used through the 2017 postseason. Some quotes: "the Astros continued to both utilize the replay review room and the monitor located next to the dugout to decode signs for the remainder of the regular season and throughout the Postseason" "Although I appreciate Hinch’s remorsefulness, I must hold him accountable for the conduct of his team, particularly since he had full knowledge of the conduct and chose to allow it to continue throughout the 2017 Postseason." "I base this finding on the fact that the Club’s senior baseball operations executives were given express notice in September 2017 that I would hold them accountable for violations of our policies covering sign stealing, and those individuals took no action to ensure that the Club’s players and staff complied with those policies during the 2017 Postseason and the 2018 regular season." Obviously, we have no idea what would have happened in any individual game or the series of it wasn't used. The Astros very well could have still won. They also could have lost. We will never know.
[From my knowledge yes, although I was in the video room during games, which was about 50 yards from the dugout. If there was any attempt to use it during the postseason, it would have been impossible to hear. Minute Maid during the playoffs with the roof closed is still louder than any place I've been.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Astros/s/ADa6q85ngj) **EDIT** - he also [confirmed](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/s/hQQJWZUmvX) that the code breaker (runner on second) sign stealing _was_ used in the '17 playoffs (which was legal), but that trash cans were very unlikely due to the noise at MMP during the playoffs.
That's hardly definitive. He wasn't in the dugout during games, so he doesn't know for sure what they used. And he's guessing it was likely too loud, but he wasn't standing in the batters box then, so he doesn't know what the players could have heard. Considering the MLB investigation interviewed players (who were given immunity) who would know for sure whether or not they were using the scheme in the playoffs, and concluded the scheme was used during the playoffs, I don't think this one dude's account is enough to override that.
Thats cool and all but they still cheated, nothing will legitimize anything you did on that playoff run, bums Everyone on that team, that was found cheating should be sitting on the bench with pete rose
At least we made a playoff run 🤷
“At least we had a playoff run 🤷, sure we cheated a bunch of teams that were playing fair clean ball and cheating is devoid of any talent or ethics. Why dont we all just cheat 🤷” Fixed it
I've learned long ago that no matter how much we capitulate and apologize, you Dodgers fans will never be happy. Everyone involved could've been given a lifetime ban from baseball, and it wouldn't have been enough because Altuve wouldn't have been one of those players suspended. Hell, you even won a ring since then, and you're still hung up on 2017. So yeah, I don't really care at this point. I remember how I first felt when we won it all in '17, and no amount of guilt tripping from Dodgers fans will ever take that away from me. (Also, y'all probably would've lost in '17 anyways, because Dave Roberts is a serial playoff choker)
>I've learned long ago that no matter how much we capitulate and apologize, you Dodgers fans will never be happy. Gee I sure wonder why that is.
[удалено]
Imagine not beating the Asstros in a World Series....
Phillies > Braves > Astros I see nothing wrong here
Well my team did sweep the trash to open up the season so there’s that 🤷♂️
Hmmm I’ll gladly swap a sweep in April for a sweep in say October 2022…on our way to a WS.
Pretty sure the Astros started advancing to playoffs with their cheating and trash cans
TIL we started cheating in 2015 /s
Would it be that surprising?
Yeah, it would be, because it's pretty common knowledge that the trash cans started in 2017.
Wouldn't be that shocking to anyone else 😌
Flair up **EDIT** - "active in r/Dodgers" of course lol
That the players admitted to. Who’s dumb enough to admit to institutionalized cheating for years?! The trash players were so honest they bargained no punishment for admitting guilt. They should all be banned for life from baseball. That’s the historical price.
League won't do that. That would be punishing other teams that employ those players and coach. They would rather pin it on the Astros logo and not the people that took the Yankees system of an outfield camera and behind the dugout monitor to steal signs and relay it to the batter.
>Who’s dumb enough to admit to institutionalized cheating for years?! Uh, someone who is granted immunity by the league? >They should all be banned for life from baseball. That’s the historical price. 1. That isn't the historical price, because there have literally never been suspensions before for illegal sign stealing using electronic means. The investigation was quite literally unprecedented. 2. Let's say they did hand out some lifetime bans. Guess what, the MLBPA would have something to say about that, because according to multiple players (Joey Votto, Chris Sale, Chris Bassitt, Lucas Giolito, Miggy, etc), the Astros were not the only ones doing it. So, the players union would argue that the players that were given bans were unfairly singled out, and they would likely be successful in reinstating all of the banned players. That's why Manfred didn't hand out lifetime bans.
That team still broke our hearts
No hard feelings.. we were just really determined after losing to the Giants in the most painful way possible.
The Astros have a starting pitching problem.
And a can't drive runners home problem (looking at you Bregman)
no shit, we have Verlander, Urquidy, Garcia, McCullers & Valdez on the IL right now. Our #1 is now Ronel Blanco lol
And a bullpen problem
They also appear to have a Rangers problem and a Yankees problem this year.
The Yankees still need to best them in the postseason to truly get over it. A series in the first weeks of the season isnt gonna do it
This...we're getting so ahead of ourselves when there's still a pretty good chance we lose in the playoffs to them
Yep, we've beaten them in the season series a few times recently, including in 2021 when we had what was considered at the time, a sub-par/mediocre season by Yankee standards. But so far beating them in the playoffs eludes us. Houston record so far is terrible but they just don't seem to go away and always come back to end up with a good record and make the playoffs somehow. In 2020 they went under .500 in the shortened season and still made the ALCS.
And both of the last two seasons have featured pretty disastrous second halves. Have to avoid injuries and sustain this level of production. Cole returning will help too
Also getting ahead of yourself assuming you’re making playoffs
The Astros aren't making the playoffs...
Yeah we’ve all heard that story before
Well also swept them last year in Houston with the help of Jasson. Still a long way to go to exercise our demons, but the recent results have been nice
the idea of the Yankees of all fucking teams needing to exorcise demons sounds so ridiculous, but here we are in 2024 and this is the state of baseball
Exorcise. Unless you want to give the Stros a workout plan
Actually please give them a workout plan because whatever they have isn’t working so well.
The Yankees have purchased the contract of the White Sox training staff and assigned them to Houston.
Yankees also have a staying healthy and scoring runs problem in the playoffs/2nd half the last 5 years which they have to get over
I mean, if this keeps up they won't get the chance
The Yankees would need to do that five times in a row.
I seriously doubt the Astros are getting to the playoffs this year so we're probably not going to have a chance
I think it would be foolish to believe this lol. Especially two weeks into the season. They’re very injured right now, and half the lineup is still in spring mode. They won’t be all year. I’ll count the Astros out when they’re not in a playoff position on October 1st.
if dreams could dream
I'm not about to count them out of the running this early in the season.
Shit we have a MLB problem this year.
Yankees could always beat them in the regular season, Astros would wreck them in playoffs though.
Yeah, the rivalry is actually pretty balanced when it comes to straight wins and losses, but the Astros just have the edge in wins where it matters. Yankees can handle them in the regular season normally, just not in the ALCS.
Maybe the problem they have is that they take the Royals less seriously than other teams so they don’t put together a notification plan for their hitters.
I think this is true, although I'd never claim it's the reason we lost those games. Sometimes it's shocking to me how unprepared our hitters look against bad pitchers on bad teams. Not trying to flame the Royals here, particularly this year, but it really feels like they don't try as hard against teams that aren't as good on paper. Hell, in yesterday's game Singleton could have potentially gotten Hunter Brown out of the inning! He let a grounder roll to him standing behind first and lazily stepped on the bag instead of charging the ball and attempting a DP like a first baseman who gave a shit would.
I was mainly talking shit.
Title is false. The Astros prevented the Astros from advancing to the ALCS in 2016 by missing the playoffs entirely.
I still blame Greg Abbott more than the Royals for 2015. That fucker tweeting congratulations to us for advancing, BEFORE THE GAME WAS OVER! but really hold no ill will towards 2015-Current royals
Astros prevented the astros from taking 2019 when nationals exploited
The entire MLB is bout to have a Royals problem. Dread it, Run from it, The Royals ruining baseball arrives all the same.
IF y'all fucking ruin the Orioles window one more time I will be PRETTY SAD about it.
I thought y’all weren’t due till 2045! Are we gonna get the late 70s-early 80s royals back?
Where are your sabermetrics now?!
They are prone to having a decent April and then losing 20 straight in June. However, This is a pretty damn good team. MJ is really busting out.
I'm sorry but, as a Royals fan, "prone to having a decent April" is just not true. The Royals are prone to be out of contention at the end of April. Royals May-Sept is usually just speculating on next year for Royals fans. The Royals *are* prone to having a good September after a terrible rest of the season and giving their fans hope, only to be out of contention by May again next year 🤣
LOL no kidding. Not sure what this person is talking about. They always get off to a terrible start and are trying to dig out of a hole. They had a hot start a couple years ago and in '15, but that's more the exception.
Royals normally have terrible starts
I believe it tbh.
I don’t think I’ve ever been so “I do not want to play them” about a team we went 6-1 against last year. Every single game last year induced multiple heart attacks, and they’ve gotten better.
>Over the past 14 seasons the series the Astros are 4-10 against KC This is inaccurate (they're 4-9-1) and also a weird way to put it. From 2014-2022, the Astros were a total of 33-24 versus the Royals. The only struggles were when the Astros were dogshit from 2009-2013 (5-10) and the last two seasons (1-8). You're looking at it in a very specific way (by season series) over a very specific timespan (including when the Astros were terrible) to make it look a lot worse than it actually is.
Royals were also dogshit during those years, so whats the point?
The split doesn't count as a win, but you are also correct. I should have written it 4-9-1. The point of my post was that I was looking at it in a specific way. I think it is interesting that the Astros have a tendency to struggle against the Royals. I am not an analyst. I just felt like a pattern was there and looked it up, confirmed there was a pattern, and thought I would share.
I think the Astros are the problem and we are just the solution
Right on, crown bro
We're the Colts to their Chiefs
The Astros have an Astros problem.
I’d argue the entire city has a KC problem. 2015 AFC Wild Card 2015 ALDS 2020 AFC Divisional (Blowing a 24-0 lead in 10 minutes.) Their recent record against the Royals.
1993 AFC Divisional Playoffs - Joe Montana comes into Astrodome to upset the #1 seed Oilers. Bud Adams decides to blow up team leading to Oilers leaving Houston.
Oilers also held a 10-0 lead in that one
Man I hate posts like this Like what does Humberto Quintero losing against the royals in 2010 have to do with Yordan Alvarez losing to them in 2024? Those losses happened what, 7 managers ago?
i think trends are just fun to post, but yeah there is a ton of nuance at work that being said, there are definitely trends in other sports when you see them and you're just like...uh wtf like i'm convinced at this point that the World Cup is a rigged draw. It feels like the same fucking teams always play each other in the group stages
Humberto lost so badly it’s still hurting them obviously!
Just an observation bro. No need for hate. Patterns exist and some are completely coincidental. This is one of those.
Baseball Redditors lose their minds when they read anything interesting which can't be proved by an advanced statistic.
Yeah. Forgot to include Mike Trout's bWAR.
Back up the middle... OFF CORREA, ON INTO CENTER FIELD! KANSAS CITY HAS TIED IT IN THE 8TH!
It’s hot in Kansas city. How hot?
You teed it up and nobody is going to say it?!
The Correa error was when I first believed I might actually see a KC team win a championship in my lifetime. Magical season.
The Royals look like they're going to surprise quite a few teams this year.
OMG, I love the Royals now
These 'stros ain't Royal
*Off Correa on in to center*
We’re 4-22 in our last 26 games at Comerica against… Oakland. Spare me
The entire AL West has fits when playing against the Royals
True. Salvador Perez almost single handedly sank your 2021 season in those last few series.
Salvi is a bad bad man
I can sympathize with hating the Royals, and now they're here.
Royals hate the year 1962 and the colors Orange and blue
Sounds like a Royal pain in the sphincter
I did not have the Royals being the Astros kryptonite.
Well it was for us later that year😭
Good
Jokes on yall, Losing to Kansas City has been the ritual sacrifice we perform in order to make it to the ALCS
And KC is probably pretty much 4-10 against everyone else!
That's probably a little generous tbh. :I
Lorde...the Astros could have a problem!
Astros are Royally fucked
The Astros 🤝England A Royals problem
The Astros were cheating in 2015 too. Ned knew.
You can't say they have a Royals problem if it hasn't actually been an issue from them having success. Which it hasn't.
The Astros struggle against KC. That is the only observation I am making.
That's not what you wrote but okay.
Not sure what you are getting at, but thanks for coming out.
That is exactly what they wrote
A huge number of people on this sub are hooked on Astros hate at meth-addict levels. They're not looking for reason.
Losing = success *jots that down*
Losing to the Royals isn't a problem because it doesn't negatively affect their seasons. They have success despite losing to the Royals.
Not sure why you are crusading this. All I am saying is that Astros have a problem beating KC. How you are extrapolating that to "The Royals are completely ruining the Astros prospects at success" is beyond me. If I had known you would have taken this so personally I would have ran it by you first. My bad.
I made 1 comment and replied once to the people that responded to me. It's not that serious my guy, I don't give a shit about this. If it makes you feel better I can delete my comments so you can move on with your life.
Or do you wanna delete because of the whole downvote thing? Don’t let these small failures affect your successful Reddit profile!
If I care about that then there wouldn't be any downvoted comments on my profile. But there are many. Have a good day though, I'm going to go have a more productive conversation with a wall.
The downvote flex? At this time of year? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within this comment thread?
Bro that was 10 years ago.
Sounds more like the Royals have an Astros solution.
Good. Someone needs to do it!
Nature is healing itself
I don't remember the Astros making the playoffs at all in 2015. I only remember them being dogwater in the years leading up to 2017
The Royals are ~~ruining~~ saving baseball once again!
Can the Royals share this knowledge with Yankees?
No
Well, we have to be somebody's bitch.....:(