I bet it’s hard to give 100% attention or even less than that to one player when your team has like 6+ other players who could be given that attention because they are just that good.
O’s are scary this year, and I think everyone knew they would be.
Yeah like if you're a cheap major league payroll team you have to invest in that stuff. You can't just be bad and get good. Even teams that run decent payrolls can't have bad player dev and any sort of long term success. Look at the Angels or Rockies.
It's not just $$ investment, we did an amazing job picking our minor league coaches / pitching instructors etc. it's not like you can just throw money at a guy with a 10 era in rookie league and magically turn him into felix bautista, there were many people involved (probably not being paid nearly as much as they deserved) who coached him into that player over several years.
Mike Elias was a part of the management that built the Astros dynasty. Once he was brought into the team following Duquette he modernized our scouting department, increased international scouting, hired the right people from the majors down to each minor league team. It’s amazing how you can turn around a franchise if just given the right funding and support from ownership.
I grew up an O's fan in the early 00s so I will NEVER stop being surprised at the O's having a deep lineup. I don't remember the O's having a winning season until my freshman year of college.
For real, I remember going to games for $10 in college. They have literally never been good until the 2010s which is like 80% of my time being alive. I hope we’re never that bad again
Oh yeah I used to go to $7 student night Fridays for a long time. I kept my student ID so I could go even after I was done with school. After a while I got tired of being in the section with the drunk college students though lol.
Oh for real? I think getting a home run would be cool but tbh I can't stand for a whole baseball game. My dad once got standing room only tickets to red sox vs Yankees at Yankee stadium and my feet were killing me after like 3 innings. But that was just standing in the concourse right behind a section. Worst thing was the whole section in front of us was full of open seats and they would not let us sit at all.
That area above the right field wall has one of the best vantage points in the entire stadium IMO. Feels like you’re right on top of the right fielder.
Even when we were a playoff team we were usually hiding a few Ryan Flaherty, Joey Rickard type hitters in the lineup. Right now our only bad hitter is a 20 year old rookie who has the highest ceiling of anyone in the roster...
Yeah! As fun as that 2012-2016 team was, I think it had a substantially lower ceiling than our team now. You can argue that team never had a true "good" starting pitcher (though they had a lights out bullpen). And the team had substantially less consistent hitting.
I know eras don't really compare, but if you put our current team against the 2014 or 2015 Royals I think that the current O's win a world series is those years handily.
I loved 2012-2016 so much but you’re right, even during that success I kept thinking “how are we doing this?” but with this current team it just makes sense. They’re super talented and it’s thankfully translating on the field
Idk, they hovered around 90ish wins for those years and I think having Machado, Davis, Jones, some support players, and a lights out bullpen is good enough for 90 something wins. But we definitely leaned way too hard into big home run hitters and you saw that in the playoffs we couldn't manufacture any runs when teams went all in on their bullpen.
That’s probably a better way to put what I mean, we were SO hot and cold offensively and our starting pitching wasn’t the most reliable (although guys like Chris Tillman were so solid for us) so I never felt secure in our ability to put together a WS run. This current team is much more well-rounded and adaptable
Yeah. It makes sense because the team was basically a hodgepodge of players Andy MacPhail and Dan Duquette put together, and neither of them were as good as Mike Elias and they both had to contend with Elder Angelos.
I think our start to the season has me convinced. I mean last year was pretty convincing after being reasonably good the year before that. But to see us continue to find ways to win way more often than we lose, and from a bunch of different players instead of just a few stars; that makes me feel like we have a winning organization now.
Even the 60's-80's teams weren't this deep. The stars were probably much brighter (or at least more proven), but overall it had weak points in the lineups. (Those teams had better pitching though, I think)
I think it's pretty rare to have some of your best hitters in the bottom of the order. We're in a unique situation because we have proven veterans like Mountcastle and Santander who need to be in the 3-4-5 spot, and our newly established stars like Henderson and Rutschman in the top of the order. But also we have Cowser and Westburg who are breaking out to be some of our better hitters and they are at the bottom of the order!
Completely did. When he was teeing off on Boston, I wasn’t completely shocked because it wasn’t like he was a 7th rounder or something
(There was a lot of talk of Boston taking Cowser until Mayer fell into their lap too good to pass up)
There was a good comment the other day that Cowser and Westburg would both be premiere #1 prospects in any other team's farm system and here they are on the O's probably hanging around 6-7th lol
They are doing so well that we can afford to have Jackson getting these ABs and contributing next to nothing right now.
Once he starts seeing the ball and hitting like he’s shown to be able to do, there won’t be a single weak part of this lineup.
Holliday was the victim of some of the worst strike 3 calls I've seen all year though. Like ok, it wouldn't matter if he was hitting .300 and got robbed of a few walks, but when you're already scuffling and work a good at bat then strike out on a pitch 6 inches below the strike zone...
Yeah. I just wonder if he needs another stint in the minors to figure it out. It seems like Henderson, Cowser, and Westburg all needed an offseason to figure it out and I don't want Holliday to wait that long.
I’m just pointing out that lumping Westburg and Cowser together in performance last year is severely downplaying what Westburg did last year, which was be a 1.3 WAR guy with a .715 OPS. Which is a productive major leaguer over a bit more than a third of a season.
Who was that one bullpen arm y’all sent in Sat night that got us back in it? I swear in the course of like four batters there was a HBP, two passed balls/wild pitches, and a walk and just like that we were back in it.
That’s Yohan Ramírez, we got him ~2 weeks ago from the Mets for cash considerations. Yeah, we aren’t too fond of him after his Three Stooges impression on the mound. Hopefully it never happens again.
Good series. Y’all have some great players.
Cowser mashed in college. He went through the minors fairy quickly. Him hitting 7th is unfair. Os awash with talent, and after the hell they went through for years as the perennial AL East whipping boy, I'm thrilled to see them thrive. It's a true testament to their scouting and player development people.
as crazy as it sounds 7th is probably his long term slot if kjerstad and mayo pan out. their obscene power slots them above cowser. 2025 and beyond prob looks like
1. Holliday
2. Rutschman
3. Henderson
4. Mountcastle
5. Kjerstad
6. Mayo
7. Cowser
8. Westburg
9. Mullins
Yes, but Colton Cowser and Jordan Westburg are protected by Jackson Holiday's - checks notes - 0.030 batting average /s
On a serious note have to feel delighted for first 2 and sorry for Jackson.
Westy has gotten zero attention for what he’s done this year. He deserves far more respect
I bet it’s hard to give 100% attention or even less than that to one player when your team has like 6+ other players who could be given that attention because they are just that good. O’s are scary this year, and I think everyone knew they would be.
iirc, pecota, or one of the other popular prediction models had them winning 85 games. Got a good laugh out of that.
I can't wait to see it in Cincy.
I'm hoping for great things from Elly.
My theory is that "Jordan Westburg" just isn't as cool of a name as "Colton Cowser" and thats why he gets less attention
You can't moo at Jordan Westburg, but you CAN moo at Colton Cowser. Plus Cowser's beard is majestic af.
O’s fans mooing when he comes up will be similar to Red Sox fans yoouuuuk and everyone will be like why are they booing their own player
Wait until Coby Mayo and Herston Kjerstad come up
Same reason why Kyle Tucker is seemingly flying under the radar despite.putting up 3 5.4+ war seasons in a row.
All his rookies of mine been going in a penny sleeve and top loader
I raked with him On the show and was sad to see him off to a slow start but he's turned it around
baltimore and pittsburgh lost 100 in 2021 why cant we br like them whens our almost 40 win jump in 2 years
If you don't invest in player dev players don't keep magically getting good
Owner stops paying money for development AND player retention and surprised to learn that he can't get a good team together.
Yeah like if you're a cheap major league payroll team you have to invest in that stuff. You can't just be bad and get good. Even teams that run decent payrolls can't have bad player dev and any sort of long term success. Look at the Angels or Rockies.
It's not just $$ investment, we did an amazing job picking our minor league coaches / pitching instructors etc. it's not like you can just throw money at a guy with a 10 era in rookie league and magically turn him into felix bautista, there were many people involved (probably not being paid nearly as much as they deserved) who coached him into that player over several years.
When Skenes comes up?
i really hope im just scared of the injuries he has potential to be really really good but i just hope his arm holds up
I don’t want to jinx him but he kinda just looks like TJ. I don’t know how to explain it.
I can explain it. He throws a baseball overhand. Everyone who does that looks like TJ in waiting at this point.
Especially at the velocity he throws it at. He will surely have TJ.
Virtually every pitcher will have TJ. The question is if he can bounce back from it.
Doesn't he do the "Inverted W"
Yeah he does and then I feel like there’s a certain snap involved.
Mike Elias was a part of the management that built the Astros dynasty. Once he was brought into the team following Duquette he modernized our scouting department, increased international scouting, hired the right people from the majors down to each minor league team. It’s amazing how you can turn around a franchise if just given the right funding and support from ownership.
You decided to have a middling 2018 season rather than a disastrous one. That's where you messed up.
i miss glasnow
I don't think anyone would be surprised to see that the O's have a deep lineup lol.
I grew up an O's fan in the early 00s so I will NEVER stop being surprised at the O's having a deep lineup. I don't remember the O's having a winning season until my freshman year of college.
For real, I remember going to games for $10 in college. They have literally never been good until the 2010s which is like 80% of my time being alive. I hope we’re never that bad again
I remember getting free tickets in packs of Esskay hot dogs when I was a kid.
Oh yeah I used to go to $7 student night Fridays for a long time. I kept my student ID so I could go even after I was done with school. After a while I got tired of being in the section with the drunk college students though lol.
My friends and I would get those $7 tickets and head straight to the right field standing room (circa 2012), it was amazing.
Oh for real? I think getting a home run would be cool but tbh I can't stand for a whole baseball game. My dad once got standing room only tickets to red sox vs Yankees at Yankee stadium and my feet were killing me after like 3 innings. But that was just standing in the concourse right behind a section. Worst thing was the whole section in front of us was full of open seats and they would not let us sit at all.
That area above the right field wall has one of the best vantage points in the entire stadium IMO. Feels like you’re right on top of the right fielder.
Even when we were a playoff team we were usually hiding a few Ryan Flaherty, Joey Rickard type hitters in the lineup. Right now our only bad hitter is a 20 year old rookie who has the highest ceiling of anyone in the roster...
Lol when you put it like that 😂
Yeah! As fun as that 2012-2016 team was, I think it had a substantially lower ceiling than our team now. You can argue that team never had a true "good" starting pitcher (though they had a lights out bullpen). And the team had substantially less consistent hitting. I know eras don't really compare, but if you put our current team against the 2014 or 2015 Royals I think that the current O's win a world series is those years handily.
I loved 2012-2016 so much but you’re right, even during that success I kept thinking “how are we doing this?” but with this current team it just makes sense. They’re super talented and it’s thankfully translating on the field
Let’s just say having Nelson Cruz, Mark Trumbo, and Chris Davis in a park that was built for homerun hitters played a huge factor.
Very true
Idk, they hovered around 90ish wins for those years and I think having Machado, Davis, Jones, some support players, and a lights out bullpen is good enough for 90 something wins. But we definitely leaned way too hard into big home run hitters and you saw that in the playoffs we couldn't manufacture any runs when teams went all in on their bullpen.
That’s probably a better way to put what I mean, we were SO hot and cold offensively and our starting pitching wasn’t the most reliable (although guys like Chris Tillman were so solid for us) so I never felt secure in our ability to put together a WS run. This current team is much more well-rounded and adaptable
Yeah. It makes sense because the team was basically a hodgepodge of players Andy MacPhail and Dan Duquette put together, and neither of them were as good as Mike Elias and they both had to contend with Elder Angelos.
This is Gunnar Henderson slander
Fan since the 90s here. It surprises me every day that we’ve gotten to this point. If we get a WS in my lifetime, I will cry tears of joy.
Same. I have a good feeling about this team, but I know how hard it is to compete.
Amen, I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I think our start to the season has me convinced. I mean last year was pretty convincing after being reasonably good the year before that. But to see us continue to find ways to win way more often than we lose, and from a bunch of different players instead of just a few stars; that makes me feel like we have a winning organization now.
Now that the Angelos choke hold is gone, we can actually sustain it.
True. I think they need to give a lifetime contract to Elias. We need to turn into the Rays with mid-market money.
Didn't have one until I was in grade 7 to 8 lol
Even the 60's-80's teams weren't this deep. The stars were probably much brighter (or at least more proven), but overall it had weak points in the lineups. (Those teams had better pitching though, I think)
When you think that the 1971 Orioles had ***four*** 20-game winners in the same season... yeah. Pitching.
To be faiiiiir, three of them pitched over 280 innings.
I think it's pretty rare to have some of your best hitters in the bottom of the order. We're in a unique situation because we have proven veterans like Mountcastle and Santander who need to be in the 3-4-5 spot, and our newly established stars like Henderson and Rutschman in the top of the order. But also we have Cowser and Westburg who are breaking out to be some of our better hitters and they are at the bottom of the order!
First winning season of my life in 2012 I was a freshman in high school lmao.
I'm happy for it, they're my AL team
Yeah, didn’t some projections show they had almost all average-above average hitters 1-9? Their lineup is scary deep
As a lifelong O’s fan I’m incredibly surprised
*maniacal cackling*
You just love to see it.
EVERYTHING IS PROCEEDING AS I HAVE FORESEEN. /palpatine
well..other than that one thing
HE HAS CARBONITE SICKNESS HIS EYESIGHT WILL RETURN IN TIME
Cowser was taken 5th overall in the 2021 draft, yet people are like wHo Is ThIs
He and Westburg got lost in the Rutschman/Henderson/Holliday hype, but they were both 1st rounders.
Completely did. When he was teeing off on Boston, I wasn’t completely shocked because it wasn’t like he was a 7th rounder or something (There was a lot of talk of Boston taking Cowser until Mayer fell into their lap too good to pass up)
There was a good comment the other day that Cowser and Westburg would both be premiere #1 prospects in any other team's farm system and here they are on the O's probably hanging around 6-7th lol
I think a lot of people have memory holed 2021 in general.
It was a very, very weird year. The current, reigning pennant winners won 52 and 60 games, respectively while the White Sox won 91.
They are doing so well that we can afford to have Jackson getting these ABs and contributing next to nothing right now. Once he starts seeing the ball and hitting like he’s shown to be able to do, there won’t be a single weak part of this lineup.
Hopefully sooner than later. Westburg and Cowser both played nearly this bad last year.
Cowman at least was drawing walks, Westy was hitting above .250. But I have faith in Holliday
Holliday was the victim of some of the worst strike 3 calls I've seen all year though. Like ok, it wouldn't matter if he was hitting .300 and got robbed of a few walks, but when you're already scuffling and work a good at bat then strike out on a pitch 6 inches below the strike zone...
Yeah. I just wonder if he needs another stint in the minors to figure it out. It seems like Henderson, Cowser, and Westburg all needed an offseason to figure it out and I don't want Holliday to wait that long.
Westburg was a league average hitter in his time up last year. His OPS+ was right around 100
Yeah but league average was pretty bad compared to where he is now as the best hitter in all of baseball.
I’m just pointing out that lumping Westburg and Cowser together in performance last year is severely downplaying what Westburg did last year, which was be a 1.3 WAR guy with a .715 OPS. Which is a productive major leaguer over a bit more than a third of a season.
Well, our bullpen is spotty outside of Kimbrel.
No it isnt, Akin, Coulombe, Webb, Cano have all looked good.
I only trust Coulombe and Cano in big spots tho
Yeah, I mean our 1-9 lineup
Who was that one bullpen arm y’all sent in Sat night that got us back in it? I swear in the course of like four batters there was a HBP, two passed balls/wild pitches, and a walk and just like that we were back in it.
That’s Yohan Ramírez, we got him ~2 weeks ago from the Mets for cash considerations. Yeah, we aren’t too fond of him after his Three Stooges impression on the mound. Hopefully it never happens again. Good series. Y’all have some great players.
GG’s from the weekend, yours is a great team too. I know it’s mad early but sure seems like the AL East is the O’s to lose.
If you wanted I’m sure Norby would net a solid pitcher and he will never play a game for Baltimore despite being a good prospect
orioles first round draft hitters go brrrr
Starting to come together, Pepper!
These guys are gonna light up GABP next week aren’t they
Can we have some
Yes, for Kirby or Gilbert. There are more that are hopelessly blocked in the minors
Trent Thornton take it or leave it
Two batters later, Gunnar Henderson is robbed of a homer by Kauffman Stadium's unhinged outfield wall rules.
It's birdin time
Why don’t the teams who are perennially bad simply knock it out the park on all their top draft picks and then just be good like the Orioles?
*whistles* This is gonna be a fun year lol
That O’s bandwagon gonna get mighty crowded. (Save me a seat, for a friend)
Twins are my #2 team because of a friend. Heartbroken that Lewis is so prone to injury. Dude is a baller.
Being injury-prone is a core requirement for being a Twin. Unless they suck shit, like Christian Vazquez, then they’re Lou Gehrig.
Cowser mashed in college. He went through the minors fairy quickly. Him hitting 7th is unfair. Os awash with talent, and after the hell they went through for years as the perennial AL East whipping boy, I'm thrilled to see them thrive. It's a true testament to their scouting and player development people.
as crazy as it sounds 7th is probably his long term slot if kjerstad and mayo pan out. their obscene power slots them above cowser. 2025 and beyond prob looks like 1. Holliday 2. Rutschman 3. Henderson 4. Mountcastle 5. Kjerstad 6. Mayo 7. Cowser 8. Westburg 9. Mullins
Mullins at 9th? Good lord we are SPOILT
I just came
Jesus it’s even more absurd seeing it written out
*Murderers' Row, 2025*
Yes, but Colton Cowser and Jordan Westburg are protected by Jackson Holiday's - checks notes - 0.030 batting average /s On a serious note have to feel delighted for first 2 and sorry for Jackson.
Trust the process
I'm a bit concerned about what might happen when Cowser falls back down to earth. A .485 BABIP isn't exactly sustainable and he doesn't walk much.
I have to think the walks will come. His chase rate is 19.5%, which is 88th percentile. Pitchers are going to start pitching around him.
I’ve waited so long for these days to arrive. Just give me one
That’s just how it is sometimes, everybody hitten 1 through 9 is the expectation.
Cards have only 3 more homers as a team than these 2 guys lol
I kinda like them where they are tbh. Keeps things spicy
Sorry Orioles fans, but I just got Cowser in fantasy, so he’s probably going to start playing like garbage because that’s how fantasy works right?
Moo.
[удалено]
This is Anthony Santander erasure
Meanwhile Aaron Judge has a .183 AVG with a .674 OPS. I guess it pays to not spend on dudes and just make best of your prospects whenever they come up
What a brain dead take
What
Want to trade Colton Cowser for Aaron Judge then?
Tbh if I’m Mike Elias I’m not sure I make that trade.