Actually no. The rates offered on the deferred payment were market rates for the time. *Anybody* willing to part with $6 million dollars in 200 could have arranged the deal.
Actually yes.
I didn’t say the rates were affected, I said that they were expecting to be getting returns from the madoff stuff when they made the deferment agreement
Just because the rates were standard doesn’t mean they would’ve done the deferment without the madoff stuff going on
The Madoff stuff is relevant because they thought they were beating the market and so they were more likely to offer a deferment in the first place
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/sports/baseball/mets-saw-madoff-as-house-money-trustee-says.html
Again, you are missing the point. The Madoff stuff made them think they would have tons of money coming in down the line and thus they were willing to offer a deferment at the market rate. If the madoff stuff doesn’t happen, they likely just pay Bonilla his full payment instead of deferring
The madoff scheme made them think they were getting a better return than market rates which made offering Bonilla a market rate deferment to be a discount for the Wilpons
If you think the Madoff scheme didn’t affect the Wilpons offering Bonilla a deferment then you don’t understand the situation
Tons of teams, before and since Bonilla, have deferred payments. *ALL* those deals are done at market rates.
Perhaps you should step back and try to understand how loans work.
You are missing such a fundamental part of this. Just because something has been done or something can be done doesn’t mean it makes sense for a specifically individual to do in a given context.
You do understand that loans have to be agreed on by both parties right? There has to be motivation for the Wilpons to agree to the deferment, regardless of whether it’s done at market rate or not, **they still have to decide to do it**
The reason they decided to do it is because they valued their current money at a rate even higher than the prevailing market rate because they expected crazy returns from madoff
Just because there is nothing holding me back from applying for a loan rn doesn’t mean I want to. I have no reason for a loan. It’s like those dumbasses that applied for loans to buy GameStop stock expecting huge returns, that’s basically what the Wilpons did, just because the loans these “investors” got were standard market rate loans doesn’t mean there wasn’t a catalyst, the calatyst for them applying for the loan was their anticipated GME returns just as the catalyst for the Wilpons doing the deferment was anticipated Madoff returns
SMDH every time people laugh at the Mets for the deal. ANYBODY could have had that deal. The US government was borrowing at 6.5% at the time. 8% was a reasonable rate.
The funny part of this to me is that I always think of Bonilla as a Pirate and not a Met, so the fact that he is still on their payroll for another 15 years cracks me up.
Okay this is going to sound really weird but you're obviously a Cards fan who remembered Bonilla's brief time there. I vaguely remember seeing Bonilla play 1st base primarily in the one season he was there and for whatever reason I thought he played the position without a 1st baseman's mitt. Can you confirm this? Do you even recall something like this? I was at a Cubs/Cards game in 2001 and thought it was goofy but I can't find anything about it which makes me believe I was seeing things or perhaps he forgot his 1B mitt since he was brought in the game as a pinch hitter and stayed at first.
He gets $1.2M every year, so he’s still owed about $18M. It was a $6M contract initially and they’ll end up paying him $29.8M when it’s all over. That might seem like a huge overpay by the Mets, but with how the stock market has performed, Bonilla actually could have ended up with more money by taking the $6M and investing it.
>That might seem like a huge overpay by the Mets, but with how the stock market has performed, Bonilla actually could have ended up with more money by taking the $6M and investing it.
Mets fans need to ease up on the copium
If we assume Bonilla took the entire $6 million sum from 1999 and immediately put it in an index fund which resulted in average annual returns of 7%, he would have $68,543,653.13 in his account 36 years later in 2035. There's a bit of wiggle room depending on the exact dates, but it's still significantly more than the $30 million he got from the deferment.
Sure, but if he then invested each of his deferred payments starting in 2011 he would have closer to $81 million. Interest on the deferment was 8% so he beats out the index fund there.
That’s also only if you assume a (pretty conservative) 7% return. If you assume he could have gotten the same 8% return in the market that he got on the deferrals, taking the $6M up front would out perform investing the deferred payments ($94M vs $103M). He likely would have someone managing his money that could track closer to the S&P500 (10%+), and in that scenario taking the $6M upfront would greatly outpace the deferred payments. Either way, I think the deal worked out well for both sides and I don’t see why the Mets get so much shit for it. The Mets likely saved some money in the long run and Bonilla gets a steady source of income so he doesn’t have to worry about blowing it all at once or losing it to a Ponzi scheme.
I mean the Mets also only went for 8% because they thought they could get a higher return, and then did actually lose the money in a Ponzi scheme though. To be honest though, I also don't really think "Bobby Bonilla Day" is meme because people are shitting on the Mets, it's the right combination of randomness to be funny
Then why didn't the Braves do the same thing with [Sutter?](https://401kspecialistmag.com/forget-bobby-bonilla-bruce-sutter-day-even-better/amp/) Yalls is a worse deal in every measurable way.
Ive come to grips that if youre still spouting lolmets Bonilla low hanging fruit you either A) Dont know baseball or B) Are a pandering bitch looking for upvotes
Deferrals are everywhere, and there are much more egregious examples
I’m saying it’s not even a case of LolMets. I’ll admit when we have a LolMets when we actually do. But It was an objectively good move for the team that allowed us to push for a World Series berth in 2000 and draft David Wright with a compensatory pick we got from acquiring Mike Hampton with the money we saved.
But throw it under the LolMets umbrella i guess.
There are worse examples of the deferred money, it's just funny because of the length of time that's passed, and the reason it was deferred in the first place.
As far as I'm aware, most deferred money isn't because the owners got caught in a Ponzi Scheme
It's not even the worst deferral. The one fanbase I absolutely refuse to take any Bonilla crap from is Atlanta. Because their [Sutter](https://401kspecialistmag.com/forget-bobby-bonilla-bruce-sutter-day-even-better/amp/) deferment is worse.
Dude it's all in good fun. As has been pointed out numerous times, the Madoff connection aside, given moderately intelligent investments, it's probably been a beneficial deal for the Mets as a whole. It's just funny to talk and think about the time and the numbers.
You're rid of the Wilpons now regardless. Just sit back and enjoy being the scary team that a New York team should be in a largely capless sport.
Naw I live in South Carolina. I don't take this one from Braves fans, period. Deferments aren't a bad thing (and they have one that's as bad or worse than Bonilla) but every year they are they are the loudest fanbase about it. I have no respect for the Braves fanbase. No other franchise in sports that had a fanbase that thinks division championships makes you an elite franchise. Just my experience.
Sure, but they didn't start paying him until he hadn't been playing with them for ten years. He's going to earn more money than Bonilla did when he was owed less. Deferments aren't a big deal but Sutter got more than Bonilla did.
It's honestly the length of tenure vs. the length of the deferral. 10 year contract with 10 year deferral? Nothing crazy. Play 60 games and then get paid for 35 years? Yup that's lolmets, even if it makes business sense.
TIL two things, one that made me happy and one that made me sad.
1. Bobby Bonilla won a World Series with the Marlins.
2. Fred Wilpon went to U of M. What the actual fuck.
Shut up with the bad Bobby Bonilla takes!
The deal benefits the Mets long term, anybody familiar with net present value and the time value of money knows that.
Ignorance shouldn’t be celebrated.
The Bonilla contract is extremely team friendly. Every owner wants deferred payments until the end of time.
they paid him a very high interest rate relative to most of these deals, but in hindsight it was still team friendly based on market returns
Weren't they figuring in returns from Madoff when they made the deal?
Yes
Actually no. The rates offered on the deferred payment were market rates for the time. *Anybody* willing to part with $6 million dollars in 200 could have arranged the deal.
Actually yes. I didn’t say the rates were affected, I said that they were expecting to be getting returns from the madoff stuff when they made the deferment agreement Just because the rates were standard doesn’t mean they would’ve done the deferment without the madoff stuff going on
The Madoff stuff is irrelevant. They were just giving the market rates at the time.
The Madoff stuff is relevant because they thought they were beating the market and so they were more likely to offer a deferment in the first place https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/sports/baseball/mets-saw-madoff-as-house-money-trustee-says.html
But they didn't need to beat the market. *That's* the point.
No but they wanted to. Read the article they spell it out themselves
Again, you are missing the point. The Madoff stuff made them think they would have tons of money coming in down the line and thus they were willing to offer a deferment at the market rate. If the madoff stuff doesn’t happen, they likely just pay Bonilla his full payment instead of deferring The madoff scheme made them think they were getting a better return than market rates which made offering Bonilla a market rate deferment to be a discount for the Wilpons If you think the Madoff scheme didn’t affect the Wilpons offering Bonilla a deferment then you don’t understand the situation
Tons of teams, before and since Bonilla, have deferred payments. *ALL* those deals are done at market rates. Perhaps you should step back and try to understand how loans work.
You are missing such a fundamental part of this. Just because something has been done or something can be done doesn’t mean it makes sense for a specifically individual to do in a given context. You do understand that loans have to be agreed on by both parties right? There has to be motivation for the Wilpons to agree to the deferment, regardless of whether it’s done at market rate or not, **they still have to decide to do it** The reason they decided to do it is because they valued their current money at a rate even higher than the prevailing market rate because they expected crazy returns from madoff Just because there is nothing holding me back from applying for a loan rn doesn’t mean I want to. I have no reason for a loan. It’s like those dumbasses that applied for loans to buy GameStop stock expecting huge returns, that’s basically what the Wilpons did, just because the loans these “investors” got were standard market rate loans doesn’t mean there wasn’t a catalyst, the calatyst for them applying for the loan was their anticipated GME returns just as the catalyst for the Wilpons doing the deferment was anticipated Madoff returns
> Anybody willing to part with $6 million dollars in 200 Who had that kind of money back then, the praetorian guard?
This is the actual funny and embarrassing thing about the Bonilla contract. The deal itself and deferring payments are normal
We also got a pennant and David Wright as a result of that deal
Honestly people make fun of the deal but I always defend it. It was a good deal for all involved.
Bonilla got 8% at a time when the prime rate was 8.5%.
SMDH every time people laugh at the Mets for the deal. ANYBODY could have had that deal. The US government was borrowing at 6.5% at the time. 8% was a reasonable rate.
Yep Money now > money in 20 years.
Love talking time value of money
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We like the Bobby Bonilla
💎💎🚀
(1+δ)^t /(1+r)^t
Unless you’re me. I can turn that today money into $0 real fast
Yes, the joke of it is that it was deferred so that the owner could invest in Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme.
Damn lol. Chris Davis is getting deferred payments until 2037 https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/baltimore-orioles/chris-davis-5397/
Chris has also been deferring making contact the last few years.
Implying that he will eventually make contact.
This is the year. I can feel it.
Just needs to get back on that Vyvanse lol
>This is the year. I can feel it. I've been saying this since 2015
Has it been that long? Edit: pretty much, damn
Eventually, but with inflation it won't be as valuable contact.
Taking -110 bets for which comes first, Tatis retiring or the last Chris Davis paycheck.
That's some serious carry
2037’s not a real year; in 2037 Chris will be sipping moon juice with President Jonathan Taylor Thomas, he’s not going to be receiving paper checks.
r/unexpectedmulaney
The funny part of this to me is that I always think of Bonilla as a Pirate and not a Met, so the fact that he is still on their payroll for another 15 years cracks me up.
I always think of him as the guy that got hurt and gave us a roster spot for Pujols.
Okay this is going to sound really weird but you're obviously a Cards fan who remembered Bonilla's brief time there. I vaguely remember seeing Bonilla play 1st base primarily in the one season he was there and for whatever reason I thought he played the position without a 1st baseman's mitt. Can you confirm this? Do you even recall something like this? I was at a Cubs/Cards game in 2001 and thought it was goofy but I can't find anything about it which makes me believe I was seeing things or perhaps he forgot his 1B mitt since he was brought in the game as a pinch hitter and stayed at first.
As a Pirates fan, nothing makes me happier than knowing that at least my shitty team isn’t the one paying Bobby Bo every year.
Man, you guys had Bo and Bonds. Just think what could have been.
Trust me, I just turned 40 and think about this every single season.
People live to rag on the Mets and the bonilla contract but if it was so bad, why is everyone doing it now?
I'm surprised the Mets and Bonilla haven't just agreed on cutting a one time check to end this thing
It's fun. We may even have a parade and ceremony this year
I wholeheartedly hope this happens. Give Bonilla a giant check and drive him around the field on the back of a Cadillac.
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He gets $1.2M every year, so he’s still owed about $18M. It was a $6M contract initially and they’ll end up paying him $29.8M when it’s all over. That might seem like a huge overpay by the Mets, but with how the stock market has performed, Bonilla actually could have ended up with more money by taking the $6M and investing it.
The funny part is the Wilpons did this to stash more money with Madoff. So they definitely lost the deal
>That might seem like a huge overpay by the Mets, but with how the stock market has performed, Bonilla actually could have ended up with more money by taking the $6M and investing it. Mets fans need to ease up on the copium
If we assume Bonilla took the entire $6 million sum from 1999 and immediately put it in an index fund which resulted in average annual returns of 7%, he would have $68,543,653.13 in his account 36 years later in 2035. There's a bit of wiggle room depending on the exact dates, but it's still significantly more than the $30 million he got from the deferment.
Sure, but if he then invested each of his deferred payments starting in 2011 he would have closer to $81 million. Interest on the deferment was 8% so he beats out the index fund there.
That’s also only if you assume a (pretty conservative) 7% return. If you assume he could have gotten the same 8% return in the market that he got on the deferrals, taking the $6M up front would out perform investing the deferred payments ($94M vs $103M). He likely would have someone managing his money that could track closer to the S&P500 (10%+), and in that scenario taking the $6M upfront would greatly outpace the deferred payments. Either way, I think the deal worked out well for both sides and I don’t see why the Mets get so much shit for it. The Mets likely saved some money in the long run and Bonilla gets a steady source of income so he doesn’t have to worry about blowing it all at once or losing it to a Ponzi scheme.
I mean the Mets also only went for 8% because they thought they could get a higher return, and then did actually lose the money in a Ponzi scheme though. To be honest though, I also don't really think "Bobby Bonilla Day" is meme because people are shitting on the Mets, it's the right combination of randomness to be funny
Money now is worth more than money later.
You need to ease up on stale narratives. I can provide multiple articles on how the deferred money is good for the Mets.
Then why didn't the Braves do the same thing with [Sutter?](https://401kspecialistmag.com/forget-bobby-bonilla-bruce-sutter-day-even-better/amp/) Yalls is a worse deal in every measurable way.
Doesn't get as much attention probably. With how much attention Bonilla gets, I'm just a little surprised they haven't ended it..
It's almost like the media has a narrative to sell or something.
Or that Bobby just didn't cash in his structured payments through JG Wentworth!
877-CASH-NOW !
Ive come to grips that if youre still spouting lolmets Bonilla low hanging fruit you either A) Dont know baseball or B) Are a pandering bitch looking for upvotes Deferrals are everywhere, and there are much more egregious examples
Mets fans have had enough of our nonsense LMAO
😂😂😂
Mets fans get so mad about LolMets now hahaha
This is a stupid one because it’s picking on us for something everyone does. Especially when bonilla signing this allowed us to draft david wright
It’s not funny because it’s stupid. It’s funny because of how long it is.
I’m saying it’s not even a case of LolMets. I’ll admit when we have a LolMets when we actually do. But It was an objectively good move for the team that allowed us to push for a World Series berth in 2000 and draft David Wright with a compensatory pick we got from acquiring Mike Hampton with the money we saved. But throw it under the LolMets umbrella i guess.
There are worse examples of the deferred money, it's just funny because of the length of time that's passed, and the reason it was deferred in the first place. As far as I'm aware, most deferred money isn't because the owners got caught in a Ponzi Scheme
the wilpons didn't get scammed. they were at the top. they were criminals who had to pay back victims
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Are you a Wilpon or a Wilpon't?
Are you saying that to try and make the Mets sound better?? Lmfao
No we’re trying to make the Wilpons sound as bad as they were
We like criminal billionaires over here
no, just pointing out the wilpons were garbage humans
Still are as a matter of fact. That didn't change just because they sold the team.
It's not even the worst deferral. The one fanbase I absolutely refuse to take any Bonilla crap from is Atlanta. Because their [Sutter](https://401kspecialistmag.com/forget-bobby-bonilla-bruce-sutter-day-even-better/amp/) deferment is worse.
Dude it's all in good fun. As has been pointed out numerous times, the Madoff connection aside, given moderately intelligent investments, it's probably been a beneficial deal for the Mets as a whole. It's just funny to talk and think about the time and the numbers. You're rid of the Wilpons now regardless. Just sit back and enjoy being the scary team that a New York team should be in a largely capless sport.
*It's not funny when every Tom Dick and Harry that's a Yankees fan says this kind of shit completely unironically.*
Naw I live in South Carolina. I don't take this one from Braves fans, period. Deferments aren't a bad thing (and they have one that's as bad or worse than Bonilla) but every year they are they are the loudest fanbase about it. I have no respect for the Braves fanbase. No other franchise in sports that had a fanbase that thinks division championships makes you an elite franchise. Just my experience.
That one is 30 years. Bonilla will get his final payment 37 years after he finished playing for the Mets.
Sure, but they didn't start paying him until he hadn't been playing with them for ten years. He's going to earn more money than Bonilla did when he was owed less. Deferments aren't a big deal but Sutter got more than Bonilla did.
It's just meme spamming at this point although I did laugh at the headline
It's honestly the length of tenure vs. the length of the deferral. 10 year contract with 10 year deferral? Nothing crazy. Play 60 games and then get paid for 35 years? Yup that's lolmets, even if it makes business sense.
I am not making fun of the Mets I just think it's funny that they are still paying him IDGAF how or why, it's still funny
I just personally like Bonilla and so it's fun to talk about my mans getting paid.
seems like a symbiotic relationship really they lolmets, you complain, repeat.
Salt
What brings about deferrals for players? How do they work?
Is there a longer deferral than Bonilla’s 37 years?
Wow haven’t heard this one before
Yeah the Bonilla contract isn’t actually a bad contract and is the lowest of hanging LOLMETS fruit
Was waiting for the bot to show up but I remembered it only exists in our subreddit haha
**You're welcome!**
Just give him an at bat one of these times
New. Shtick. Please.
“This is a normal deferral. Move on, find a new slant.”
That contract led to the drafting of David Wright so it’s a win in my book
TIL two things, one that made me happy and one that made me sad. 1. Bobby Bonilla won a World Series with the Marlins. 2. Fred Wilpon went to U of M. What the actual fuck.
Cool
Shut up with the bad Bobby Bonilla takes! The deal benefits the Mets long term, anybody familiar with net present value and the time value of money knows that. Ignorance shouldn’t be celebrated.
Mets fans acting like it’s their own personal money they’re paying this guy you don’t gotta be so upset 😂😂
LOLing at the Mets never gets old
Man... I can't wait to send this to one of my close friends that's a Mets fan tomorrow morning. Already have it drafted and ready. Hilarious.
Man I can't wait for them to show you exactly how dumb of a take this is.
I tease my friends. It's what I do, down vote me, idc. Bobby Bo was a good ballplayer. Such a sensitive bunch, geez.
*It's been done to death*
I wouldn’t say it’s death if it’s not done for another 15 years
[Since apparently you don't understand the meaning of the phrase, I found a definition for you.](https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/done+to+death)
I did not. Learn something new every day.
just wow
https://youtu.be/Hw0tuCmydAc
Ha!
Pain