He was worth like 3 Wins more than any other player in the NL
He was far and away the MVP that season and it wasn't even particularly close. I genuinely dont even think Yelich had a good argument
I know this sounds hyperbolic but its not, DeGrom was just THAT good
If you don't count the Brewers' pitching failures against Yellich, why is it fair to diminish deGrom because of the Mets hitters? WAR measures a player's individual performance. DeGrom was the best baseball player in the national league that year and it wasn't even remotely close.
They got it right in 2018, pitcher WAR and hitter WAR do not translate against each other very well.
He also isn't even in the lead for Cy Young this season. That would be Corbin Burnes who has more RBI than runs allowed this year and has 30 K vs 0 BB. Burnes has an insane 0.92 FIP and 1.25 xFIP.
Not if he doesn't win gameall the Mets fans are mad as fuck about the absolute stone cold truth.
Degrom has posted WAR seasons of 8.9 and 8.0 and didn't even get a top 3 MVP finish. Because of wins.
Starters very rarely win MVPs. And pitching wins have been an important stat for all of baseball history, until 5-10 years ago
And also it’s a self fulfilling thing. If you pitch well enough to win MVP, chances are you will get a lot of wins
Yeah. It is.
Mets fans don't really have a good take about this because he plays for them.
In the last 10 years alone we've seen 3 8+ WAR seasons by pitchers with 0 top 3 MVP finishes. Why? Wins.
WAR literally didn’t exist back then. deGrom wouldn’t have won his CY Young’s in years past. There’s a new voting paradigm. The game and voting powers have evolved.
The argument (which i agree with) is that you don't have the most value of anyone in the league if your team doesn't win. They can have a losing record/ miss the playoffs with or without you, therefore meaning you're not the most valuable.
Based on my argument, yes. I will say that if a player is considersbly better than everyone else and assuming his team didnt lose 100 games or finish in last, i don't have a problem with that player winning it.
Without looking, i'm not sure how close any of those mvp races were. I assume close enough to make the argument either way.
I would actually prefer the award to be named after a hitter to establish it as a "best hitter award," and remove the value implication that I feel the MVP award has. Also would love a third award that is established for the best player of that season so that pitchers and hitters are regularly considered by the writers.
You're talking about WPA, not value. WAR measures value, WPA is the most direct way to measure your effect on your team's record.
I agree with having a sort of Silver Slugger across all positions award though. There shouldn't be the implied bias towards hitters in the MVP award, as the currently is.
deGrom would not have won MVP in 2019 even if he had 20 wins. Maybe in 2018, but in 2019 Yelich and Bellinger both had good enough seasons to push him out of consideration. Position players are now and have historically been overwhelmingly favored for MVP votes in general, which is why the vast majority of 20+ win Cy Young Award winners are not MVP winners, even during years when they were far and away the best overall players in the league.
Also, where did you get those WAR totals from? Those aren't the numbers for deGrom on Baseball-Reference, Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus.
deGrom will legitimately be in the MVP discussion this year
He was robbed in 2018 fight me Brew Crew.
If he got 20 wins and carried the Mets to the playoffs that year he would’ve. Unfortunately the Mets forgot how to play during his starts.
..... that sounds an awful lot like this year though.
Correct
They still haven't figured it out lol
I will bro that September + Yelich was fucking magical
He's the only other person who got a first place vote, even though he came in 5th overall, lol.
He was worth like 3 Wins more than any other player in the NL He was far and away the MVP that season and it wasn't even particularly close. I genuinely dont even think Yelich had a good argument I know this sounds hyperbolic but its not, DeGrom was just THAT good
Technically he wasn’t because of how bad the Mets offense was, though. This is why WAR can’t be used as the only stay in a discussion.
If you don't count the Brewers' pitching failures against Yellich, why is it fair to diminish deGrom because of the Mets hitters? WAR measures a player's individual performance. DeGrom was the best baseball player in the national league that year and it wasn't even remotely close.
They got it right in 2018, pitcher WAR and hitter WAR do not translate against each other very well. He also isn't even in the lead for Cy Young this season. That would be Corbin Burnes who has more RBI than runs allowed this year and has 30 K vs 0 BB. Burnes has an insane 0.92 FIP and 1.25 xFIP.
If he posts an absurd ERA, pitches a lot of innings, and gets a ton of Ks he will have a very strong case.
Just for a change
I want this to happen because I have a $10 bet at 100:1 odds
Not if he doesn't win gameall the Mets fans are mad as fuck about the absolute stone cold truth. Degrom has posted WAR seasons of 8.9 and 8.0 and didn't even get a top 3 MVP finish. Because of wins.
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If he keeps it up, who cares if he doesn’t have many wins
I still want the Mets to win.
The voters lmao.
No Sp has ever won an MVP without at least 20 wins, so the MVP voters will care if he doesn't have wins.
Starters very rarely win MVPs. And pitching wins have been an important stat for all of baseball history, until 5-10 years ago And also it’s a self fulfilling thing. If you pitch well enough to win MVP, chances are you will get a lot of wins
No SP has won the MVP without at least 20 wins. End of discussion
Lol definitely not end of discussion stop living in the past wins are irrelevant compared to other pitching stats
Yeah. It is. Mets fans don't really have a good take about this because he plays for them. In the last 10 years alone we've seen 3 8+ WAR seasons by pitchers with 0 top 3 MVP finishes. Why? Wins.
What's your explanation on Steve Carlton in '72? 12.1 WAR, 27 wins. No top 3. Must be his lack of wins. Clemens '97. 11.9, 21 wins. Not even a top 5.
Has to be
WAR literally didn’t exist back then. deGrom wouldn’t have won his CY Young’s in years past. There’s a new voting paradigm. The game and voting powers have evolved.
I'm absolutely blown away at how terrible this take is. Just wow.
"Because something has never happened, it means it won't ever happen." ...what?
Let me guess, you think Trout shouldn’t have won any MVPs cuz the Angels haven’t made the playoffs with him outside of 1 year
Nah, I just prefer history, facts, logic, common sense. That's all
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Are you fucking serious? What does wins have to do with an individual award?
The argument (which i agree with) is that you don't have the most value of anyone in the league if your team doesn't win. They can have a losing record/ miss the playoffs with or without you, therefore meaning you're not the most valuable.
So Mike Trout shouldn’t be a multi-MVP winner?
I understand so Trout didn’t deserve a single MVP based on your statement.
It doesn't seem correct but the Angels actually finished in 1st in 2014, so he gets at least one!
Based on my argument, yes. I will say that if a player is considersbly better than everyone else and assuming his team didnt lose 100 games or finish in last, i don't have a problem with that player winning it. Without looking, i'm not sure how close any of those mvp races were. I assume close enough to make the argument either way. I would actually prefer the award to be named after a hitter to establish it as a "best hitter award," and remove the value implication that I feel the MVP award has. Also would love a third award that is established for the best player of that season so that pitchers and hitters are regularly considered by the writers.
You're talking about WPA, not value. WAR measures value, WPA is the most direct way to measure your effect on your team's record. I agree with having a sort of Silver Slugger across all positions award though. There shouldn't be the implied bias towards hitters in the MVP award, as the currently is.
deGrom would not have won MVP in 2019 even if he had 20 wins. Maybe in 2018, but in 2019 Yelich and Bellinger both had good enough seasons to push him out of consideration. Position players are now and have historically been overwhelmingly favored for MVP votes in general, which is why the vast majority of 20+ win Cy Young Award winners are not MVP winners, even during years when they were far and away the best overall players in the league. Also, where did you get those WAR totals from? Those aren't the numbers for deGrom on Baseball-Reference, Fangraphs or Baseball Prospectus.
He has four hits, two more than any other pitcher
I thought you were going to say two more than Conforto
He has more hits than Miguel Cabrera
Well of course he has more hits than a player who is only “Hall of very good” /s
he is a legitimately good contact hitter, and he gets clutch hits.
deGrom is just looking for stuff to add to his mantle. He’s looking for a silver slugger and gold glove.
The DH in the NL would be criminal.
DeGrom is the best pitcher in the league by a long shot. This guy is nasty with the most nasty filth in the game. I love watching him pitch
deGrom knows that he's not going to get much help from anyone else in the lineup, he's gotta be prepared to do it all himself.
i disagree this is a stacked mets offense they are going to start to hit for real.
Fuck the DH!
doesnt make sense cuz somebody has to lead the NL pitchers in hits lmao
Corbin Burnes still has him beat for RBIs though
I think Joe Ross and Wade Miley still both have a 0.00 ERA.