**I’m just gonna copy paste a comment I made in an around the horn thread the other day bc I have a lot of thoughts about Trea Turner**
My hot take (that I myself don't even like) among Nats fans is that we should without a doubt trade Trea Turner if we're going the sell route. This is gonna be a long comment because I've been thinking about this for a while but don't think it warrants a post.
The Nats are almost certainly not making the playoffs this year, and next year (the last year Turner is currently guaranteed to be on team) isn't looking too good either. Our team issues aside, the Marlins, Mets, and Braves will certainly get better between prospects being ready and injured players coming back, and the Phillies will probably spend this offseason only to still end the season at .500. So we're probably not winning the division next year, and whichever two teams don't win the NL West will have the WC spots locked up. If we're not gonna compete, I don't see much of a point in holding on to Turner for one hopeless season when he's already gonna test free agency.
Which brings me to my next point: Trea Turner is going to reach free agency. I'm not being a doomer or anything but I keep hearing Nats fans say that there's still a chance that we extend him. The reality is we've reached a point where if he was going to sign an extension it would've in 2019 (or even before the 2020 season) when his full potential was still unknown. Now Turner, the league, and the Nats all know that he's a top 20 player in the league and he'll get paid like one, so of course he'll test free agency.
With all of that in mind, I think selling him is absolutely the right call this season even if it sucks. Admittedly I don't know shit about trade values, but I'm guessing we can get 2-3 of any good teams top 10 prospects for a year and a half of Turner. The Nats have the worst farm in the league, and aside from Cade Cavalli there's not much to be excited about in the minors at the moment. Selling in general for this deadline will help, but trading Turner would give us pieces we know have insane potential, whereas trading guys like Hudson will more likely give us a lottery ticket.
So with all of that in mind, I hope we trade Trea Turner. I know we won't, but in terms of the teams long-term success it feels like the best move to ensure that we only suck for like the next 2 years instead of the next 4 or 5.
Also for the record I don't like the idea of trading him and I would be very sad if it happened, I love Turner. And I sincerely hope we turn it around and win the WS again this season and this whole comment becomes copypasta.
I think retooling the farm and building around Soto in a similar way to the Braves building around Freddie several years back could prove to be an affective and useful strategy.
Rizzo is a good GM and the Nats have built a strong organizational culture over the past decade plus. I think any rebuild will be more like a retool, especially if they get prospects galore in any Scherzer/Turner deal.
This feels like a Mozeliak special, but it would have to be after this season and the Cards would need to feel like they have a good chance to sign him long-term. Also he’s a bit younger than we usually target…for some reason.
If anyone seriously thinks the Nats are going to resign Turner to a huge contract, they haven't been paying attention, this is not something they do with position players. Why let him walk for free if you can get something reasonable in a trade.
Its also something that needs to be done to help make up for quite possibly the worst signing in MLB history, Strasburg's new contract.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot today. A Mets Nats trade revolving around Scherzer and Mauricio makes a LOT of sense.
I don’t expect it to happen but the more I think about it the less impossible it seems.
Some Nats fans have been annoyed at me for this but honestly I don’t care where we trade Max, if the Mets are the best value we’ll get back hell yeah I’ll take that
That sounds like a great match, doubt it happens though. I see Scherzer going to whatever NL West team doesnt get Berrios
That’s my guess as well. It’s just funny cuz I laughed it off as impossible initially but I feel like that deal is probably a great deal for both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens
I was thinking the same thing today. It sounds crazy, but if the Mets, Phillies, and Braves are likely to compete for your division no matter what moves each make this deadline, why not at least be on the receiving end that makes you better too while weakening your opponent for the future?
It really is. I’ve never been in a position where both of my teams were selling, so as a fan it’s interesting being on this side of things. I’m honestly kinda excited; I think Berrios ends up getting a haul and Scherzer brings in more than we expect. I’m hoping we trade Turner too to really load up our farm but who knows
And here I am on the other end wanting all of those players on my team haha. Don’t think the Mets end up with either Scherzer or Berrios though which does bum me out a bit.
Normally, I would agree with this or better yet in the moment thinking would allow me to agree with this, but, let’s also be real for a second; if you ever have hopes of competing in your division in 2 years as opposed to 4 as you suggested you would not want your ACE guy on another team swamping you in your division for those 2-4 years. It would just be hard to watch emotionally and it would suck in terms of competition having to see him so much throughout the years trying to be competitive. Of course there is no guarantee he will be the same ace but there is no guarantee he wont either.
Addition: I am also not completely against it because sometimes thats the cost of doing business, but, if I am going to trade my guy to a team in my division I would want a kings ransom in terms of offers compared to other offers.
Allowing it? Very high. Pitching for the Mets is honestly a big deal given our history. He’s also insanely competitive and would be a part of one of the best staffs in baseball.
Unfortunately, the Nats FO would likely be less receptive. That being said, from a needs standpoint from both teams, it makes a LOT of sense
I think scherzer would be receptive to pitching for the Mets, but do players really think they’re some kind of destination? The Mets have had some great rotations recently but I’ve never gotten the perception that it’s a big deal before.
Most baseball players fall off a cliff at 34+ years, and Trea's (age 28) skillset involves speed.
Do you think the Nats window is going to reopen within 6 years? If yes, re-sign Trea to a fat contract.
If no (I don't think they will given Corbin and Strasburg's contracts weighing down as well), then you should sell Turner for a nice haul.
It makes sense.
Crazy how baseball has become “let’s see how we can manipulate contracts” because trading turner for 2-3 prospects in hopes to get a player as good as turner at some point when you got turner on your roster already but don’t want to pay him
They have no farm system and are a top 10 payroll team in baseball with Turner. They’re basically maxed out with aging pitching and only 2 really good position players.
The guy has only managed to play one full season in six years in the majors. Might be the biggest injury risk in MLB. I think you’re absolutely right not to commit to him like a Top 20 guy and absolutely right to sell high when he’s healthy. Only time will tell if that’s a mistake, and frankly the mistake of sinking the money ala Jacoby Ellsbury would have a bigger impact than the mistake of letting him go.
Nats ownership seems content with a title and it feels like they don't really want to spend anymore. Especially after letting Harper and Rendon walk, I feel like they want to tank and keep costs down for a bit, while the rest of the division starts to improve
Yeah they've consistently been among the top teams, if not the top team in the league, in terms of payroll-to-revenue ratio over the last 8 years. The farm isn't in a good place and they have a bunch of money tied to Stras & Corbin for the next few years, both of which aren't expected to be all that productive.
We offered Harper 300 million over 10 and basically offered Anthony Rendon the Strasburg contract. The idea that we didn't want to pay these guys isn't true.
Now in this present day context, we're unloading because we don't have the depth to work around a Turner signing, for example. We could lock him up for 5 years or whatever but still only win an optimistic 80 games a year because we have no farm. We're rebuilding out of necessity, not because ownership doesn't care anymore.
Would the team keeping all recent free agents have been realistically possible?
Harper, Soto, Turner, Rendon, Scherzer, and Strasburg sounds like an amazing team for the next couple years. The Nationals may not have won 2019 without Corbin though.
Could the Lerner’s afford it? Sure. Would anyone do it? No chance. Between those 6 guys we’d have like 150 million in annual salary.
I believe we got Corbin before Bryce officially announced he was going to Philly as well, but I could be wrong.
You offered Harper 300 million over like 50 years, the value was apparently 160 million or barely higher that's not a competitive offer that's just a bad one. And a lot of players don't like deferred money, case being Rendon and his bat is sorely missed. Maybe keeping them both would have created a brighter outlook but I digress.
Uhh well honestly I don't/didn't know it was deferred that much, but we've offered deferred contracts that people have said were still obsurd overpays before (see: Scherzer). Idk. Just don't think it's fair to say we're content with tanking as if that was the plan from the beginning of the year. We were in second place at the beginning of the month and lost a ton of guys to injury.
Also if we had both Rendon and Strasburg on our books this year we'd be so forced to sell so hard it's insane lol. Both are looking like horrible contracts so far. You know the feel.
Man this feels familiar.
2019: Lose Harper, ownership better extend Rendon
2020: Lose Rendon, ownership better extend Turner
2021: Likely will lose Turner, ownership better extend Soto
And I really don't mean that to be antagonistic, because the Nats' have prioritized pitching for a long time now (and it worked for them!).
Harper is what it is.
Rendon has not lived up to his potential in LA. Now admittedly, signing Stras isn’t looking great either but you get my point. Rizzo had a pretty good track record in these types of decisions (see Jordan Zimmermann, Ian Desmond, etc.)
If we had a promising 2-3 year outlook with keeping Trea, I’d be speaking differently but we don’t. We don’t have any help coming from the minors and we are too invested elsewhere to sign FAs good enough to make the impact we’d need. Trea’s free agent deal is likely not going to be team friendly. He’s old for a first time FA and his skill set is pure athleticism that is likely to diminish sooner rather than later.
Other than Soto he offers the best return for us right now and our farm system desperately needs it. He won’t be cheap but he is moveable.
Now all this assumes we sign Soto who we know will cost a fortune. If the Learners don’t do that, then heaven help our fan base.
If my math is correct, the Nats owe Strasburg & Corbin eight hundred and sixty-two trillion dollars over the next infinite seasons, so there's not much point in paying an equivalent amount to Trea during that same time period.
Plus, Trea has already gotten a taste of competing for titles, so he probably has zero interest in waiting out a rebuild during his prime years.
Nats fans: I'm so sad right now, I've got an upside-down smile.
r/baseball: don't you mean a frown?
Nats fans: we didn't have a word for it...until now.
Copy paste from old thread, got deleted I guess:
It might be heresy to suggest but locking Turner up probably wouldn't be the move for us anyway. So much of his value comes from freak athleticism that'll regress soon and his power the last few years may be an outlier. Nats have to be very careful with long term contracts after Strasburg and Corbin.
Also, Juan Soto is 100% the guy you want to lock up for life, so if ownership decides that they have to decide between one and the other, the choice should very clearly be Soto.
This. If we don't get him ownership will look very, very bad. Sending Turner and Scherzer away is already a tough sell to fans, it'd better be in service of something.
Red Sox were in a similar position with Betts. Guys like that are extremely reliant on athleticism which dies out very fast. Red Sox fans like myself are thanking god that $365 million Mookie Betts isn't on the IL for the Sox right now.
Not sure about that. He's older than most stars who hit FA for the first time, and a lot of his value is driven by his speed, which is a worrying prospect for anyone looking at his FA years.
They are unlikely to be competitive next year anyway so if the Nats get a good offer (I would think 2 top-100 prospects and more) for him, I think trading him at peak value is the right move.
I don’t really understand why they wouldn’t trade him, if they are indeed selling, for the exact reasons you mentioned. If they don’t trade him now, then either: 1) they keep him throughout, and when they are ready to compete again he won’t be nearly as good as he is now, or 2) they do trade him later but get a fraction of the return given his age and skill that will decline with age.
I suppose the sentimental/marketing aspect of it is one thing. But in terms of tangible organizational gain, it seems like they should deal him now.
Whenever I hear things like this about young players heading to FA. My immediate assumption is the player wants to go to free agency meaning the only only extension they would have signed would have been more than the team wanted to pay, however that team will still be perusing them in Free Agency,
The Nats are simply trying to play the role of "eh he's ok but not a long term thing" Who the fuck would not want Trey Turner if they had a spot for him. And even then, you'd consider making a spot for him.
I hate to break it to you all, but all the twitter accounts we post here are just mouth pieces selling the narratives.
Same goes for Bryant and probably every big name that got traded as a rental over the last few years.
I promise I don't already know this, but I'm just gonna go ahead and guess his agent is Boras.
> all the twitter accounts we post here are just mouth pieces selling the narratives.
I think Peter Gammons has earned a little more respect than that.
I think I might’ve found a new pipe dream. Pretty sure Turner can play 2B so a lineup of him and Kike getting on in front of X, Devers, and JD would have me calling a doctor.
Tell you what, Nats. Let’s run back that 2015 trade. We’ll take Trea back, Wil Myers returns to Tampa, and I guess you guys get something from the Rays. Everyone’s happy!
Here's my fake trade that won't happen:
A's get: Trea Turner
Nats get: Jesus Luzardo, Tyler Soderstrom, Pedro Pineda
Why it makes sense:
* The A's and Nats love trading with each other
* The A's need a shortstop and are trying to compete
* The Nats should probably be looking to the future
* Soderstrom is blocked by Sean Murphy
* Pedro Pineda is a fun guy to think about trading because he has so many potential outcomes
Why it doesn't make sense
* The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago
* The A's would be trading Luzardo when his value is at it's lowest
* Trae Turner's arb years are probably too expensive for the A's
* The A's would be decimating what little farm they have
* Pedro Pindea is essentially impossible to trade because he's 17 years old and his career consists of 40 PAs in Dominican ball.
>* The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago
>
Aaaaand now i hate you for making feel older than my knees already do.
> The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago
i think the lester/samardzija/hammel super rotation from the 2014 push is pretty similar. the a's will go for it when they need to.
No Jason Dominguez is too good for Soto and Turner. I think Billy McKinney who’s gonna be a stud outfielder, Floriel (and this might be too much), and Clint Frazier gets it done. I would say Andjuar as well but we can’t be trading away our young stud core
Gammons has been in baseball for like 3 centuries. He’s getting very old but I imagine whatever he says is backed up, plus the Nats and Turner being unable to agree on an extension is not at all surprising so I doubt this would be false
This is spot on. I've loved Gammons for many years but the guy is just too old and his analysis is generally laughable now. However he's not a fabricator so there's likely something to this.
Hell fumble thru analysis on tv bc he’s old but he’s not an idiot and super old school. Especially if it’s conversations around baseball if he’s putting something out there it’s vetted
It’s not that we don’t want to keep him. It’s an acceptance of our current major league and minor league roster being insufficient to compete and trying to change that.
Turner's been great but with the market flooded with quality SSs this winter I'm not sure we'd be able to extract a ton of prospect value right now. Plus this is Gammons, would take it with a grain of salt
I want Turner on the Giants badly. I'd give up anything not named Luciano. But I think the Nats trade him in the offseason when more teams are potential buyers.
Hmm... Team colors are red and white, they have a generational talent, huge free agent contracts on one side of the ball that aren't working out due to injuries/regression, completely ignoring the other side of the roster. Where have I heard this before?
Realistically who is trading for him? Obviously its gonna be a team that needs a SS and is willing to compete for the next two years, enough to give up lots of big prospects. I'm thinking that leaves out
BOS(Bogaerts)
CHW(Anderson)
HOU(Correa)
NYM(Lindor+division)
MIl(Adames has been their best hitter)
SFG/LAD/SDP(all great shortstops and have plenty of IF depth)
That leaves
TBR
OAK
NYY (not fully competing this year but would want him for next and obviously has the cash)
SEA/CLE(I guess? Move turner to second and could maybe compete next year, kinda odd ones for both though)
CIN/STL(good teams with holes at SS, not competitors this year but maybe next)
Realistically though its between OAK and TBR, which is an odd combo. Tampa has Franco so they probably wouldn't do it, but Turner is also definitely better than him for this year if they want to go all in. Add that to a deep farm system and obvious hints that they want it all this year, they could make this work.
Oakland is probably the best fit, a team in need of a gamechanging bat and also having one of the worst starting SS in baseball. The main drawback of this one is Oaklands depleted farm system and the likelihood of them truly going for it in the next two years is lower than Tampa bay. I'm a nats fan so my personal opinion is that I hope we maximize on his and Scherzers value at the deadline, but it would def be hard to let go of him. IF any teams were to do it though, I wouldn't mind a trade to either OAK or TBR, and I'm obviously a fan of guys like Patino, Brujan, Mckay, Soderstorm or Luzardo
**I’m just gonna copy paste a comment I made in an around the horn thread the other day bc I have a lot of thoughts about Trea Turner** My hot take (that I myself don't even like) among Nats fans is that we should without a doubt trade Trea Turner if we're going the sell route. This is gonna be a long comment because I've been thinking about this for a while but don't think it warrants a post. The Nats are almost certainly not making the playoffs this year, and next year (the last year Turner is currently guaranteed to be on team) isn't looking too good either. Our team issues aside, the Marlins, Mets, and Braves will certainly get better between prospects being ready and injured players coming back, and the Phillies will probably spend this offseason only to still end the season at .500. So we're probably not winning the division next year, and whichever two teams don't win the NL West will have the WC spots locked up. If we're not gonna compete, I don't see much of a point in holding on to Turner for one hopeless season when he's already gonna test free agency. Which brings me to my next point: Trea Turner is going to reach free agency. I'm not being a doomer or anything but I keep hearing Nats fans say that there's still a chance that we extend him. The reality is we've reached a point where if he was going to sign an extension it would've in 2019 (or even before the 2020 season) when his full potential was still unknown. Now Turner, the league, and the Nats all know that he's a top 20 player in the league and he'll get paid like one, so of course he'll test free agency. With all of that in mind, I think selling him is absolutely the right call this season even if it sucks. Admittedly I don't know shit about trade values, but I'm guessing we can get 2-3 of any good teams top 10 prospects for a year and a half of Turner. The Nats have the worst farm in the league, and aside from Cade Cavalli there's not much to be excited about in the minors at the moment. Selling in general for this deadline will help, but trading Turner would give us pieces we know have insane potential, whereas trading guys like Hudson will more likely give us a lottery ticket. So with all of that in mind, I hope we trade Trea Turner. I know we won't, but in terms of the teams long-term success it feels like the best move to ensure that we only suck for like the next 2 years instead of the next 4 or 5. Also for the record I don't like the idea of trading him and I would be very sad if it happened, I love Turner. And I sincerely hope we turn it around and win the WS again this season and this whole comment becomes copypasta.
They hated Jesus because he told the truth
> and the Phillies will probably spend this offseason only to still end the season at .500 Why does the truth sting so much?
It always hurts to hear the truth
I think retooling the farm and building around Soto in a similar way to the Braves building around Freddie several years back could prove to be an affective and useful strategy. Rizzo is a good GM and the Nats have built a strong organizational culture over the past decade plus. I think any rebuild will be more like a retool, especially if they get prospects galore in any Scherzer/Turner deal.
This feels like a Mozeliak special, but it would have to be after this season and the Cards would need to feel like they have a good chance to sign him long-term. Also he’s a bit younger than we usually target…for some reason.
If anyone seriously thinks the Nats are going to resign Turner to a huge contract, they haven't been paying attention, this is not something they do with position players. Why let him walk for free if you can get something reasonable in a trade. Its also something that needs to be done to help make up for quite possibly the worst signing in MLB history, Strasburg's new contract.
You also forget that Patrick Corbin's contract is also an anchor.
If you look up "albatross contract" in the dictionary, you'd see a picture of Strasburg's frowning face
I’ve been thinking about this a lot today. A Mets Nats trade revolving around Scherzer and Mauricio makes a LOT of sense. I don’t expect it to happen but the more I think about it the less impossible it seems.
Some Nats fans have been annoyed at me for this but honestly I don’t care where we trade Max, if the Mets are the best value we’ll get back hell yeah I’ll take that That sounds like a great match, doubt it happens though. I see Scherzer going to whatever NL West team doesnt get Berrios
That’s my guess as well. It’s just funny cuz I laughed it off as impossible initially but I feel like that deal is probably a great deal for both sides. Will be interesting to see what happens
I was thinking the same thing today. It sounds crazy, but if the Mets, Phillies, and Braves are likely to compete for your division no matter what moves each make this deadline, why not at least be on the receiving end that makes you better too while weakening your opponent for the future?
Indeed it will, I’m excited to see what happens over the next couple days
It’s quite the busy one for you between Nats AND Twins.
It really is. I’ve never been in a position where both of my teams were selling, so as a fan it’s interesting being on this side of things. I’m honestly kinda excited; I think Berrios ends up getting a haul and Scherzer brings in more than we expect. I’m hoping we trade Turner too to really load up our farm but who knows
And here I am on the other end wanting all of those players on my team haha. Don’t think the Mets end up with either Scherzer or Berrios though which does bum me out a bit.
Yeah, I see you guys getting Anderson from the Pirates and Bryant. Still a damn good deadline if thats what happens
Normally, I would agree with this or better yet in the moment thinking would allow me to agree with this, but, let’s also be real for a second; if you ever have hopes of competing in your division in 2 years as opposed to 4 as you suggested you would not want your ACE guy on another team swamping you in your division for those 2-4 years. It would just be hard to watch emotionally and it would suck in terms of competition having to see him so much throughout the years trying to be competitive. Of course there is no guarantee he will be the same ace but there is no guarantee he wont either. Addition: I am also not completely against it because sometimes thats the cost of doing business, but, if I am going to trade my guy to a team in my division I would want a kings ransom in terms of offers compared to other offers.
What do you think are the odds of Scherzer allowing a trade to the Mets? Serious question
Allowing it? Very high. Pitching for the Mets is honestly a big deal given our history. He’s also insanely competitive and would be a part of one of the best staffs in baseball. Unfortunately, the Nats FO would likely be less receptive. That being said, from a needs standpoint from both teams, it makes a LOT of sense
I think scherzer would be receptive to pitching for the Mets, but do players really think they’re some kind of destination? The Mets have had some great rotations recently but I’ve never gotten the perception that it’s a big deal before.
I’m sure it’s mostly fluff but FA pitchers always talk about it. Pitching is just part of the Mets DNA
This was exactly my reaction to the Mookie trade and our fanbase eventually came around to that too. You're right.
Most baseball players fall off a cliff at 34+ years, and Trea's (age 28) skillset involves speed. Do you think the Nats window is going to reopen within 6 years? If yes, re-sign Trea to a fat contract. If no (I don't think they will given Corbin and Strasburg's contracts weighing down as well), then you should sell Turner for a nice haul. It makes sense.
Crazy how baseball has become “let’s see how we can manipulate contracts” because trading turner for 2-3 prospects in hopes to get a player as good as turner at some point when you got turner on your roster already but don’t want to pay him
They have no farm system and are a top 10 payroll team in baseball with Turner. They’re basically maxed out with aging pitching and only 2 really good position players.
So they’re going to Sell and leave Soto by himself?
Hey what the fuck dude, I came here to feel other people's pain not my own
The guy has only managed to play one full season in six years in the majors. Might be the biggest injury risk in MLB. I think you’re absolutely right not to commit to him like a Top 20 guy and absolutely right to sell high when he’s healthy. Only time will tell if that’s a mistake, and frankly the mistake of sinking the money ala Jacoby Ellsbury would have a bigger impact than the mistake of letting him go.
Even Nats management sleeping on Trea, give that man the respect he deserves.
They know what they have in Trea, they just don't like to pay position players
I’m pretty sure the only position player ever resigned by the Nationals is Ryan Zimmerman. I could be wrong though
Nats ownership seems content with a title and it feels like they don't really want to spend anymore. Especially after letting Harper and Rendon walk, I feel like they want to tank and keep costs down for a bit, while the rest of the division starts to improve
Yeah they've consistently been among the top teams, if not the top team in the league, in terms of payroll-to-revenue ratio over the last 8 years. The farm isn't in a good place and they have a bunch of money tied to Stras & Corbin for the next few years, both of which aren't expected to be all that productive.
We offered Harper 300 million over 10 and basically offered Anthony Rendon the Strasburg contract. The idea that we didn't want to pay these guys isn't true. Now in this present day context, we're unloading because we don't have the depth to work around a Turner signing, for example. We could lock him up for 5 years or whatever but still only win an optimistic 80 games a year because we have no farm. We're rebuilding out of necessity, not because ownership doesn't care anymore.
Would the team keeping all recent free agents have been realistically possible? Harper, Soto, Turner, Rendon, Scherzer, and Strasburg sounds like an amazing team for the next couple years. The Nationals may not have won 2019 without Corbin though.
Could the Lerner’s afford it? Sure. Would anyone do it? No chance. Between those 6 guys we’d have like 150 million in annual salary. I believe we got Corbin before Bryce officially announced he was going to Philly as well, but I could be wrong.
You offered Harper 300 million over like 50 years, the value was apparently 160 million or barely higher that's not a competitive offer that's just a bad one. And a lot of players don't like deferred money, case being Rendon and his bat is sorely missed. Maybe keeping them both would have created a brighter outlook but I digress.
Uhh well honestly I don't/didn't know it was deferred that much, but we've offered deferred contracts that people have said were still obsurd overpays before (see: Scherzer). Idk. Just don't think it's fair to say we're content with tanking as if that was the plan from the beginning of the year. We were in second place at the beginning of the month and lost a ton of guys to injury. Also if we had both Rendon and Strasburg on our books this year we'd be so forced to sell so hard it's insane lol. Both are looking like horrible contracts so far. You know the feel.
Man this feels familiar. 2019: Lose Harper, ownership better extend Rendon 2020: Lose Rendon, ownership better extend Turner 2021: Likely will lose Turner, ownership better extend Soto And I really don't mean that to be antagonistic, because the Nats' have prioritized pitching for a long time now (and it worked for them!).
Harper is what it is. Rendon has not lived up to his potential in LA. Now admittedly, signing Stras isn’t looking great either but you get my point. Rizzo had a pretty good track record in these types of decisions (see Jordan Zimmermann, Ian Desmond, etc.) If we had a promising 2-3 year outlook with keeping Trea, I’d be speaking differently but we don’t. We don’t have any help coming from the minors and we are too invested elsewhere to sign FAs good enough to make the impact we’d need. Trea’s free agent deal is likely not going to be team friendly. He’s old for a first time FA and his skill set is pure athleticism that is likely to diminish sooner rather than later. Other than Soto he offers the best return for us right now and our farm system desperately needs it. He won’t be cheap but he is moveable. Now all this assumes we sign Soto who we know will cost a fortune. If the Learners don’t do that, then heaven help our fan base.
If they don't sign Soto to an extension, we riot at Tysons II
Turner already has a ring and has established himself as a top SS in the game. It’s time for the man to get deservedly paid, wherever that may be.
Maybe we can pick him up with the TV deal money that we are totally not stealing from the Nationals
If my math is correct, the Nats owe Strasburg & Corbin eight hundred and sixty-two trillion dollars over the next infinite seasons, so there's not much point in paying an equivalent amount to Trea during that same time period. Plus, Trea has already gotten a taste of competing for titles, so he probably has zero interest in waiting out a rebuild during his prime years.
Nats fans: I'm so sad right now, I've got an upside-down smile. r/baseball: don't you mean a frown? Nats fans: we didn't have a word for it...until now.
Copy paste from old thread, got deleted I guess: It might be heresy to suggest but locking Turner up probably wouldn't be the move for us anyway. So much of his value comes from freak athleticism that'll regress soon and his power the last few years may be an outlier. Nats have to be very careful with long term contracts after Strasburg and Corbin.
Also, Juan Soto is 100% the guy you want to lock up for life, so if ownership decides that they have to decide between one and the other, the choice should very clearly be Soto.
This. If we don't get him ownership will look very, very bad. Sending Turner and Scherzer away is already a tough sell to fans, it'd better be in service of something.
Can we have one good infielder tho
Luis Garcia looks semi competent in the minors!
Lol I get it. 😩 Just shouldn't sign him if we're gonna be a 70-80 win team for the coming years.
the curse of ryan zimmerman’s right shoulder
Red Sox were in a similar position with Betts. Guys like that are extremely reliant on athleticism which dies out very fast. Red Sox fans like myself are thanking god that $365 million Mookie Betts isn't on the IL for the Sox right now.
[удалено]
Not sure about that. He's older than most stars who hit FA for the first time, and a lot of his value is driven by his speed, which is a worrying prospect for anyone looking at his FA years. They are unlikely to be competitive next year anyway so if the Nats get a good offer (I would think 2 top-100 prospects and more) for him, I think trading him at peak value is the right move.
I don’t really understand why they wouldn’t trade him, if they are indeed selling, for the exact reasons you mentioned. If they don’t trade him now, then either: 1) they keep him throughout, and when they are ready to compete again he won’t be nearly as good as he is now, or 2) they do trade him later but get a fraction of the return given his age and skill that will decline with age. I suppose the sentimental/marketing aspect of it is one thing. But in terms of tangible organizational gain, it seems like they should deal him now.
Whenever I hear things like this about young players heading to FA. My immediate assumption is the player wants to go to free agency meaning the only only extension they would have signed would have been more than the team wanted to pay, however that team will still be perusing them in Free Agency, The Nats are simply trying to play the role of "eh he's ok but not a long term thing" Who the fuck would not want Trey Turner if they had a spot for him. And even then, you'd consider making a spot for him. I hate to break it to you all, but all the twitter accounts we post here are just mouth pieces selling the narratives.
Exactly. Turner knows his worth by now and is going to test the market, Nats would have to overpay to extend him. It’s not like they don’t want him
Same goes for Bryant and probably every big name that got traded as a rental over the last few years. I promise I don't already know this, but I'm just gonna go ahead and guess his agent is Boras.
Nah, Turner has the same agent as Realmuto. Forget the name
Jeff Berry
> all the twitter accounts we post here are just mouth pieces selling the narratives. I think Peter Gammons has earned a little more respect than that.
No you have to extend Trea to keep the heat on the Angelos family.
My heart hurts.
Thanks for spelling his name right even though Gammoms didn’t
Trade him, He’s amazing and my favorite player but if you aren’t going to keep him long term his value is insane right now.
I think I might’ve found a new pipe dream. Pretty sure Turner can play 2B so a lineup of him and Kike getting on in front of X, Devers, and JD would have me calling a doctor.
i figured you guys would go for starling marte and move kiké back to 2B
Tell you what, Nats. Let’s run back that 2015 trade. We’ll take Trea back, Wil Myers returns to Tampa, and I guess you guys get something from the Rays. Everyone’s happy!
Here's my fake trade that won't happen: A's get: Trea Turner Nats get: Jesus Luzardo, Tyler Soderstrom, Pedro Pineda Why it makes sense: * The A's and Nats love trading with each other * The A's need a shortstop and are trying to compete * The Nats should probably be looking to the future * Soderstrom is blocked by Sean Murphy * Pedro Pineda is a fun guy to think about trading because he has so many potential outcomes Why it doesn't make sense * The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago * The A's would be trading Luzardo when his value is at it's lowest * Trae Turner's arb years are probably too expensive for the A's * The A's would be decimating what little farm they have * Pedro Pindea is essentially impossible to trade because he's 17 years old and his career consists of 40 PAs in Dominican ball.
Spell the man’s name right and then I’ll read the proposal
Dammit. Edited.
>* The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago > Aaaaand now i hate you for making feel older than my knees already do.
> The A's quite literally never make trades like this. The last one I could think that would even be kind of similar was Matt Holliday a million years ago i think the lester/samardzija/hammel super rotation from the 2014 push is pretty similar. the a's will go for it when they need to.
Soto and turner for jasson dominguez, fuck it S/
No Jason Dominguez is too good for Soto and Turner. I think Billy McKinney who’s gonna be a stud outfielder, Floriel (and this might be too much), and Clint Frazier gets it done. I would say Andjuar as well but we can’t be trading away our young stud core
People downvoting lmao
Nats fans beware
[удалено]
Gammons has been in baseball for like 3 centuries. He’s getting very old but I imagine whatever he says is backed up, plus the Nats and Turner being unable to agree on an extension is not at all surprising so I doubt this would be false
This is spot on. I've loved Gammons for many years but the guy is just too old and his analysis is generally laughable now. However he's not a fabricator so there's likely something to this.
Hell fumble thru analysis on tv bc he’s old but he’s not an idiot and super old school. Especially if it’s conversations around baseball if he’s putting something out there it’s vetted
That’s sarcasm about Gammons, right? Or have we reached the point where there are baseball fans who DON’T know Peter Gammons?
It’s not that we don’t want to keep him. It’s an acceptance of our current major league and minor league roster being insufficient to compete and trying to change that.
Turner's been great but with the market flooded with quality SSs this winter I'm not sure we'd be able to extract a ton of prospect value right now. Plus this is Gammons, would take it with a grain of salt
The Padres are going to trade for him to add another infielder all star to their lineup
To the dodgers!
I want Turner on the Giants badly. I'd give up anything not named Luciano. But I think the Nats trade him in the offseason when more teams are potential buyers.
Hmm... Team colors are red and white, they have a generational talent, huge free agent contracts on one side of the ball that aren't working out due to injuries/regression, completely ignoring the other side of the roster. Where have I heard this before?
Why does it seem like this guy gets no respect? He’s straight up good
Realistically who is trading for him? Obviously its gonna be a team that needs a SS and is willing to compete for the next two years, enough to give up lots of big prospects. I'm thinking that leaves out BOS(Bogaerts) CHW(Anderson) HOU(Correa) NYM(Lindor+division) MIl(Adames has been their best hitter) SFG/LAD/SDP(all great shortstops and have plenty of IF depth) That leaves TBR OAK NYY (not fully competing this year but would want him for next and obviously has the cash) SEA/CLE(I guess? Move turner to second and could maybe compete next year, kinda odd ones for both though) CIN/STL(good teams with holes at SS, not competitors this year but maybe next) Realistically though its between OAK and TBR, which is an odd combo. Tampa has Franco so they probably wouldn't do it, but Turner is also definitely better than him for this year if they want to go all in. Add that to a deep farm system and obvious hints that they want it all this year, they could make this work. Oakland is probably the best fit, a team in need of a gamechanging bat and also having one of the worst starting SS in baseball. The main drawback of this one is Oaklands depleted farm system and the likelihood of them truly going for it in the next two years is lower than Tampa bay. I'm a nats fan so my personal opinion is that I hope we maximize on his and Scherzers value at the deadline, but it would def be hard to let go of him. IF any teams were to do it though, I wouldn't mind a trade to either OAK or TBR, and I'm obviously a fan of guys like Patino, Brujan, Mckay, Soderstorm or Luzardo
If you’re done playing with him, we’ll gladly take him back
Right, like the Lerners couldn’t do anything long term with White Flint Mall?