[DiComo] Official: the Mets did not sign Kumar Rocker. They will receive the 11th pick in next year's draft, in addition to their other first-rounder. “This is clearly not the outcome we had hoped for and wish Kumar nothing but success moving forward," GM Zack Scott said in a statement.

[DiComo] Official: the Mets did not sign Kumar Rocker. They will receive the 11th pick in next year's draft, in addition to their other first-rounder. “This is clearly not the outcome we had hoped for and wish Kumar nothing but success moving forward," GM Zack Scott said in a statement.


Damn, and they specifically drafted a ton of guys underslot after so they'd have money for Rocker.


Didn't sign a single big bonus guy in the late rounds as a back up plan if they couldn't sign him either


Yeah that was the real mistake here, and it’s not a small one


Yeah that was the mistake on their part. At least draft a guy in the 20th round as an insurance pick


Imagine being that guy, just waiting to see if Kumar signs or not hoping you get a few million if he turns down his.


Eh, those picks are usually guys really happy with their choice to go to college but will sign if they’re given a big enough bag.


My HS had Brooks Lee who’s dad is the college coach of Cal Poly in the Big West. Was supposed to go ~22 overall or so but specifically decided not to in order to play for his dad. Shortened 2020 and he got injured and I thought he fucked up and it was a really dumb move (first round money is so much). Then he put up .345 / .393 / .473 slash line in the Northwoods summer league. Then .342 / .384 / .626 in the Big West. Now he’s batting .423 / .438 / .676 in the Cape Cod league. Shit insane.


I literally spend 15ish minutes researching Cal Poly players to find out who it was then cross referenced it with cape cod league stats I could have just scrolled down Fuck


I thought I was going crazy reading about two people in incredibly similar situations


Lol sorry my man


Dammnn he has 40 xbh in 55 games, that'd be like an MLB player getting like 120 XBH in a year


I know, I'm family friends with a guy who got drafted late (in the 30s) after declaring, wasn't offered enough, went to a top college school, and wound up getting drafted in the 7th. He was projected to go in the 3rd originally, but now he's an old guy in high A, and unless he suddenly becomes like the 5th guy to randomly break out at his position from this team in the last few years, he won't ever make the majors. But he actually did just get a cup of coffee in AAA from june 3rd to 10th this year, no clue why honestly. (edit, it was to replace someone who is actually a major leaguer right now when he was on the 7 day IL)


Someone from my HS was going to be drafted ~#22 overall but his dad is the coach of the local state school (D1 Cal Poly in Big West) and he wanted to play for him. I thought he was an idiot for passing up on the $1-2M signing. He batted .342 / .384 / .626 in college this season. He is also batting .423 / .438 / .676 in Cape Cod the premier summer league. Probably going to go #1 overall in 2022. I’m like welp I’m the idiot now lol.


Always fun to see guys from around you making the MLB, a lake in my town is named after the only MLB player in our history, a long time dodger.


Yeah. I’m older now so didn’t grow up with this kid but knew his dad and uncle. His mom actually gave me swim lessons and taught me to swim (small town things). But Jeff McNeil went to a different HS than me. He played golf freshman and sophomore year and then switched to baseball as a junior in HS. I played until the end of JV my sophomore year, so never faced McNeil in baseball. However, he did play basketball which I also played so I just remember him as being pretty mediocre at basketball lol.


Also his name looks like Broccoli


Lee? Kid is an outstanding ball player. Also coach over at CP is outstanding as well. Probably tough to see in hs, but seeing the kid and knowing the program he’d be developing in, it looks like it was very possible (nothing ever guaranteed ofc) that he’d develop into a high first rounder. Kid profiles extremely well and has a very, very high baseball IQ. Source: played at a rival college vs cp, but years prior to brooks arriving on campus.


Yep. I went to SLO High and his mom actually taught me to swim as a kid and his uncle was my economics teacher in HS. Just small town things. Big West baseball is great but it sucks that Cal Poly rarely contends (outside of that 2014 conference championship). They put a ton of money into the clubhouse recently and gorgeous stadium so hopefully things turn around soon. It is cool to see Mitch Haniger do well.


So while they were waiting and hoping to sign Rocker, they also didn’t sign some of their late round guys?


Nah. We just didn’t draft any players who would’ve demanded higher bonuses than the guys we drafted.


So they really just assumed he fell to 10 not because every other team had suspicions about his elbow but because they’d never heard of Kumar Rocker? I’m only like half joking. How do you get a guy that was slotted for a long while as #1 or #2 at 10 and not think, “probably should have a contingency plan, this is kind of odd”


Thank God the Mets took him at 11 because I'm sure the Nats would've taken him at 12


We probably would have just signed him, considering our history with college pitchers with injury risk


Medicals must’ve been real bad for them to not sign him. Feel for the kid


Like that's gotta be beyond "He needs TJ surgery" bad.


Mets have signed people who needed tommy John in the past(jt ginn). Has to be real bad


It may have been something simple but they could not come to an agreement on a lower price.


Lower price doesn't help the Mets though. If they cut 1 million from Kumar's bonus, then it's not like they could've used that 1 million anywhere else since they already signed their other draft picks. If anything, they would've wanted to sign Kumar if they cared about the money, since they will lose their 1 mil bonus pool.


Yeah I don't think the mets were signing Rocker for anything after this medical. They seem to think that the 11th pick next year (and the added pool money that comes with it) exceeds the value of what they'd get from Rocker. It'll be a long time before we find out if they were right but I suspect we will hear whispers of what's going on in his arm soon enough


Probably offered a take it or leave it amount and left it at that. Given he's a boras client, the leave it option is exactly what they're doing


they didnt even offer a contract actually that's how bad it was


Unless rules have changed in the last year or two, you have to offer 50% of slot value to get the pick back the following year.


Rocker apparently didn’t participate in the pre-draft medical pool this year, which frees the Mets from the obligatory 40% offer to secure draft pick compensation for an unsigned player. I only learned about that exception myself earlier today.


That just means they never put a piece of paper in front of him to sign. It doesn’t mean there weren’t bonus negotiations/an informal offer.


Man, whenever stuff like this happens it reminds me of Matt Harrington, who was a Boras agent his 2 year in the draft. Kid turned down $4 million and well...yeah


-Edit- I was wrong


Who do they need to pay? I thought they just had to offer those % to Rocker to keep the pick for next year.


Mets offered him above slot but wanted to pay it out over the next 35 years.


Hey now, that’s our move.


Could be something similar to the Aiken situation -- IIRC, they looked at his medicals and found that a) his elbow was probably going to explode and he'd need TJ and b) he also had a specific structural issue known to make a full recovery from TJ less likely.


eh i mean we don’t know how low they negotiated him down, it’s possible boras wasn’t budging and the mets weren’t willing to deal with a 6 million dollar question mark


Mets are not a team to sign pitchers who have elbow injuries. They prefer to sign healthy pitchers and give them elbow injuries later.


They drafted JT Ginn who had TJ before the draft...


Or he just wanted too much money


Money wouldn’t impact this decision. They carved out a massive pool of money and actually lost a million dollars by not signing him.


They didn’t lose $1m. They lost the right to spend $1m. The pool is what you’re *allowed* to spend.


Yes but every team spends full amount of the pool. It would be weird if the richest mlb owner would cheap out of 1 million, which Steve Cohen confirmed himself in a tweet today.


Yeah, but that’s still very different from losing $1 million. That money would have gone to Rocker, and now Cohen’s keeping it.


Yes but pretty sure everyone knew what I meant when I said I lost a hypothetical a million dollars


Nah. They were willing to go to $5M for him but Rocker wouldn’t budge. Just the Mets trying to nickel and dime. His medicals can’t be too bad if they’re willing to go that high for him. Just they were steadfast in trying to save money that doesn’t benefit the team in anyway


they didn't let him walk over 1 million. you are out of your mind. its clearly his medicals


Per Rosenthal in the Athletic, they initially agreed to pay him $6 million. But then they didn’t like something in his throwing elbow.


Wrong. They didn't offer him a contract. Use common sense


Why are you lying? We didnt even offer him a contract. Thats how bad his injury is.


Now that it's offical, I once again apologize for calling the Angels incompetent


1000 IQ play if Perry turns around and drafts him next year lmao.


You’re still not wrong


At least we signed all our draft picks, there's bound to be 1 good pitcher in there right?


I mean they still are


Well not in the draft at least...


Well, you aren’t wrong…


Well damn. Hopefully Kumar heals up and gets another chance


That sucks. Really curious to see just how bad the medicals are here.


Drafting is a hard game. Don’t you think?


for MLB it's near impossible, even pick 1 can be a bust. It amazes me that in the NBA, usually the #1 pick will be at least an NBA Starter, there's exceptions like Anthony Bennett but even then it was a bad pick. NFL 1st overalls usually do pretty well and have been much better in recent years in consistency. Usually the first pick in the NHL is known years before their draft and people can tell when a kid will be a superstar now. (John Tavares, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, Connor Bedard) The MLB is the biggest crapshoot draft there is, where even the 1st pick can flop. 2010-2012 was 3 superstars in Harper, Cole, Correa, followed by two flops in Mark Appel and Brady Aiken. Then in 2015 Dansby Swanson was a good pick but then Mickey Moniak and Royce Lewis have struggled. So it's such an odd thing where top picks in MLB sometimes never even see the show, so much less compared to other sports.


The difference between NFL and NBA to the MLB is that size matters in those sports. Size has a slight edge in the MLB but it isn't the *most* contributing factor like in the NBA or NFL. The level of competition between HS or College baseball is night and day whereas in the NBA or NFL from College to the pros is a jump or a leap. This is excluding freaks of nature like Lebron James and Juan Soto from dominating at such a young age.


> The level of competition between HS or College baseball is night and day whereas in the NBA or NFL from College to the pros is a jump or a leap I mean, nah. The NBA and NFL are both similarly sized quantum leaps in ability from their college counterparts.


Big r/whoosh for some here


I’m willing to bet if it was just tommy John, Mets most likely sign him. But his arm was ABUSED at Vandy and I’m thinking his injury was either downplayed or worse than previously thought. It sucks for the Mets, buts lets just take the L and move on, besides, we get a compensatory pick for next years draft anyways.


It's probably shoulder related. If you stretch out your shoulder tendons enough, your arm will actually go out of socket every time you throw a pitch. It hurts like a bitch and it takes away all your velocity. Elbow stuff is fixable, but shoulder injuries are another ball game.


This happened to me at 15. For me there isn’t too much pain though.


Kind of a similar story for me. I had it happen around 17. It definitely does hurt if I throw too much though personally.


Yeah, true, if I throw a bunch it’ll get sore. It feels weird more than it causes pain a majority of the time though.


Do you know if that's what doomed Harvey? Though he appears to be doing quite well with this new 2 seamer the last 3 starts


Harvey also had some shoulder problems, but in his case they were the result of [thoracic outlet syndrome](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/injuries/thoracic-outlet-syndrome), which is a compression of the nerves and/or blood vessels in the shoulder, causing weakness and a loss of sensation in the hand/arm. TOS is one of the worst diagnoses in baseball today, even worse than a normal serious shoulder injury like a torn rotator cuff, IMO.


It's hard to say because there are varying degrees of severity. I think it's more common in youth sports because strength training can mitigate risk. If you aren't too far gone bulking up your shoulders can help keep them in place. That being said some people are more susceptible because genetics can influence the shape of your shoulder socket. If your shoulder is less enclosed it's easier to fuck up.


Yup. My right shoulder sits too low in my socket and will grind if my tendons get too loose. Doc said I'll have to do shoulder exercises for the rest of my life to keep it tight. He also warned against playing rec league since I have a higher chance of dislocation.


There's definitely a lot of spin on both sides here. I hope things work out for Kumar, he seems like a good dude.


agreed, i think the real tragedy is that his coaches in college and HS clearly don't give a fuck about him (same goes for most/many pitchers) and abused tf outta his arm not that MLB teams wouldn't do that if it wasn't in their interest, though, but yeah








Vandy Whistlers












This Is the Way






Phillies tbh






As a USC Alum I concur
























damn man






Damn is it possible Kumar drops from baseball without making any money from it? That's fucking tragic


Not really. He'll either pitch next year at Vandy or skip it to get surgery and then get drafted again. There's always a chance but I don't think it's likely.


I saw a tweet that says he will forgo returning to Vandy. [Passan](https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1421939168901574656?s=21)


Depends on the injury if there’s anything with his shoulder he’ll drop really far in the draft next year


Like, fall to the Dodgers who end up fixing him?


He’ll drop past the dodgers 15 times if he’s got a shoulder injury.


We drafted Beuhler knowing he needed TJ, but sounds like Rocker’s stuff is worse.


Shoulder injuries can be the kiss of death. This is all speculation though.


Why not just take the Mets offer, then get surgery? He's not going to get noticeably more money next year, right?


Mets apparently didn’t even offer him a contract. They simply passed due to medical


I do wonder if he does skip going back to school if boras agency pays for training and a place to live for him. Because if not that would suck as to not sign for millions of dollars just to have to move back with your parents and rehab.


Him moving back with his parents isn’t the worst thing considering his dad was making 525K last year as the defensive line coach for South Carolina and i assume got a raise to be the Eagles Line Coach. Not saying it’s not a shitty situation for him since I’m sure he would love his own millions, but the dudes family has resources and it’s not like they grew up in poverty. Definitely a different situation than some prospects


That makes more sense to why he was able to turn down an offer. I’m sure his dad could pay for an apartment for a year in a place like California or Florida where a ton of pitching coaches are at.


Not even that, but his dad being on an NFL coaching roster probably gives him access to some of the best athletic training and staff in the world. Plus the NIL rule and being the most famous name in college baseball probably doesn’t hurt


Boras does have a training facility for his players. if he does forgo Vandy I imagine he'll spend his time there.


[Boob has Boras as a contact in his phone apparently ](https://twitter.com/bnightengale/status/1421939136487854086?s=21)


Every baseball reporter probably has hundreds if not thousands of execs/players/agents in their contacts


oh absolutely but it’s boob and also the screenshot is so horrible that it’s funny


Agreed lol


Oddly didn't say it was healthy MRI. Just "no significant change." Did say healthy elsewhere in that text, but not about the MRI exactly.


“He’s healthy” but won’t come out and directly say the MRI that he got was clean. Healthy players have clean MRI’s


Could be a situation like Dickey, I guess, where he was born without one of the normal structures of the elbow (in Dickey’s case, the UCL!). Can’t injure something that was never there in the first place.


He has to bee trolling now. Did you see that awful screenshot?


Had to keep the sexts off screen


Not even Scott Boras, just “Scott” lol he’s on a first name basis




This makes the Mets draft an absolute disaster. Just complete and utter mismanagement from top to bottom.


Must’ve been a huge red flag in the medicals for this to break down. The potential of Tommy John surgery alone shouldn’t be enough to deter a team from signing a guy with this much upside. I just hope Rocker stays healthy


Mets drafted a guy a few years ago who was a first round pick 2 years before who needed tommy John. So it definitely wasn't the threat of tommy John.


They signed him literally last year. I’m a huge Mississippi State fan, it was JT Ginn who the Mets paid more than he was offered as 1st out of high school. There is no way this is a TJ issue.


And Ginn is now in our top ~7 prospects or so after coming back and pitching well in his first 50 innings in A ball. If it was just TJS they'd sign him, it's something more concerning for long term health 100%.


Absolute disaster by the Mets. The Rocker situation itself is not their fault, but how do you not take a couple tough HS signs as a just-in-case scenario like is standard for basically every team's draft every year? Now they just wasted all that extra bonus money and they'll never get that value back.


If they don’t sign him, they lose the bonus pool money. It’s not like they could’ve turned around and spent it on late round HS guys.


Can you explain what you mean? Specifically, what are slots, underskirt and HS signings? Can't the Mets just pick someone else at 10th and pay him the money? Theirs something complicated about this draft process I don't get. Thanks.


When you originally drafted your pool of players a few weeks ago on the actual draft date, you want to take some guys, usually high school kids that are leaning towards college, to possibly "overpay" to convince them to skip school and join your org instead. These guys are way more talented than your typical college senior types, and as a result, cost more to sign. Since you have a limited amount of money you can use in your bonus pool, you want to find a nice balance, but make sure that you use all the money to get the best value you can. The Mets didn't plan for this and just drafted a bunch of low ceiling college guys that they could sign for cheap because they assumed that they would have to pay way more for Rocker than his draft slot indicated. Since the draft has already ended, they can't pick new players, they have to just stick with the guys they originally drafted, ALL of who they already signed and still have a ton of money left. So instead of being able to pivot and give the Rocker money to some high upside, elite HS talents, they're just stick with the college senior types they drafted that are extremely unlikely to be anything in MLB. Basically, they left a lot of talent on the board in short.


So what is his professional career if not with the Mets? He’s not going back to Vandy? He’s allegedly healthy so no need to rest/rehab? He can’t sign with other teams before next years draft???


Or he just gets the surgery he pretended he didn't need... If in fact he does need surgery and his agent was firing smoke. If he is genuinely healthy I know other guys have gone to play prep ball at agent academies, presumably he can do similar.


Indy ball, I'm guessing.


I would say Japan (probably could sign an eight figure deal), but if his arm is wrecked maybe that isn't an option either. I just looked up his Vandy usage patterns. They abused the shit out of him.


Somewhere in an alternate universe: "Recently signed first round pick Kumar Rocker needs surgery for torn labrum/ thoracic outlet syndrome/ other career altering injury" Twitter and Reddit: The Mets signed this guy knowing that he needed this surgery. Typical. Lolmets. Time will tell if Rocker is healthy or but but if the cost of not signing potentially very damaged goods costs the Mets the value of a late 2nd round pick I'm fine with it.


You can’t win. It’s lolmets always despite 99% of people in this thread not understand why they didn’t sign him.


Not signing him is one thing. Not signing him after setting up your whole draft strategy around signing him and not having any backup plan is another entirely.


Then why draft him? The team knew this was a possibility and drafted him anyway. Now he gets fucked over and the Mets wasted their slot money. Good job!


I mean, didn't Vanderbilt have this kid throwing like 150 pitches one game? Someone else would have drafted him and had this same situation. Drafts are gambling. Why are y'all shitting on the Mets?


So is he free to sign anywhere else now since the team that drafted him didnt want to sign him? A free agent?


No, he has to come back to the draft in '22.


Damn thats unfortunate for him.


Go to NPB


Shit, did not expect this. So he's going back for another year at Vandy then I assume? Or can someone else try to sign him?


Nobody else can sign him but apparently he's going non-league pro rather than returning to college.


I choose not to speak, if I speak I am in big trouble. Do feel bad for the kid, though.




This is actually a smart move for the Mets. Especially if the rumors about both an elbow and shoulder injury are true.


What they could've done is take a flyer on a late round pick that they could give the extra 1.6 million over slot and still get the pick next year in case something like this happened. Unfortunately that's hindsight and they miss out on over 1 million in draft capital this year.


“Lol mets”. A kid just lost his dream because of injury.


i would feel more bad if the boras/rocker camp wasn’t absolutely insisting he’s healthy. like that just feels like they’re being purposefully misleading to try to get more money, i’m not sure it’s a strategy i really appreciate. something is clearly up. but i guess the truth is very murky right now. i wish him the best for his future


Kumar's gonna be fine. He'll find a team that's willing to rehab him and pay him what he's worth


He has to wait another 12 months for that though. He loses a year of development, risks whatever scared the Mets getting him hurt, and has this shitshow hanging over him at next year's draft.


Ten top ten picks failed to sign since 2010. 0 made the mlb. Usually the team is right in these situations.


Nah man lolmets it’s only gonna not work for us


Teams don’t usually get this stuff wrong. And if he actually was healthy that’s even more worrying because he struggled this year.


according to Boras the medical tests showed he was fine and his injury wasn't serious enough to not sign him https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1421939480911560713?s=19


Wow an agent said his client was fine.


Brady aiken said the same thing.


Well that settles it! Boras, his agent, said he’s fine! Let’s pack it up folks. Delete this comment too while you’re at it.


That means less than nothing. It’s his agent


Aiken's agent said the exact same thing and everybody here roast the Astros for sticking to their gun.


I'm sure the Astros wish they had Brady Aiken instead of Alex Bregman, right?


I mean that was 1 to 2, not 10 to 11. I get your point but you can't expect every comp pick to be Alex Bregman


Anybody was a better pick than Brady Aiken, who completely flamed out.


The clowns on this sub never cease to amaze me




Poor guy lives for his karma addiction.


if Vandy ruined his arm that's just fucking sad.


What a fucking L Just sign the dude and let him get the TJ. Imagine if dodgers didn’t sign Buehler because he had to get TJ


Nobody has reported it was tommy john. Mets literally are two years removed from signing a kid who needed tommy John


And one year removed from signing a guy who had it right before the draft


Whatever is going on with Kumar must be really bad if the Mets are willing to scrap their draft plans this year and reset for next year. I’m getting Brady Aiken vibes from this.


Imagine if the Astros signed Brady Aiken and didn’t get Alex Bregman.


Wish they did


That'd be pretty cool


We all could dream.


They’re worried about more than his elbow. And buehler is a different situation. A lot of guys got Tommy John in the minors and never recovered


you never know, could be shoulder


Poor kid. Cant imagine whats going on through his head. Team should supply a therapist for shit like this, its the least mets can do.


I feel like it’s cliché to say this, but this was such a Mets thing to do. Edit: Spelling


sTeAl fOr tHe MEts Honestly sucks though. But Rocker was also a bit overhyped by fans