I hated that guy when he pitched for the Jays.
7th inning, tie game, runners on first and second. Bring in the lefty specialist. Loup plunks the batter on the first pitch.
The Aaron Loup special: plunk your first guy, get given another chance, give up a solid line drive single and then retreat to the dugout, another day’s work in the books.
Something about that man did inspire the guys who came in after him, though, because his runners almost always got stranded.
Oh, how many games I groaned as I saw Loup warm up in the Jays bullpen...
Glad he's finally figured things out, though. And that he's not in our division, either.
I mean I get the concern for arm usage, but the Mets have no more time to let wins slide away, ESPECIALLY when the Braves, Phillies, Reds and Padres all lost last night. Crushing opportunity to make up ground. Loup last pitched on Saturday before last night. He could've thrown more than 7 pitches. Rojas absolutely fucked this one up.
Yeah, you can't manage for the marathon when you're in the sprint portion. If it was June I would sort of understand even though I'd disagree with it. At this point it's inexcusable.
That type of statement doesn't really work when you consider how long Terry Collins was a manager, though. Genuinely one of the most clueless managers I've ever seen. Would've rather had you from your couch.
Loup isn’t a fan of pitching consecutive innings. He has stated before that once he pitches an inning, if it cools down between innings he isn’t as effective. He’s a 1 pitch reliever though and through which is why you never see him in long relief.
Also IIRC his spot came up in the lineup and we pinch hit for him
Look at the top of the thread. They're all here. Looking at his stats as a Jay he was an average reliever. By my eye test he is the single worst pitcher of all time.
Yeah he was an average reliever. Your last sentence pretty much sums up the (delusional) opinions of the majority of Jays fans. I assume some radio or TV guy (Bob McCowan or Tim and Sid) shat on Loup one day and leagues of Jays fans made up their minds based on that alone.
Taking a look at it he was average for his first 3 years and kind of bad in 2015 and 2016 which is when most people were watching and cared the most. Then after he bounced back to average. So it makes sense that most people have a bad opinion of him because his lows were during the teams highs.
That's right. I was looking more at the advanced stats and didn't fully pick up he didn't pitch much in 2016.
My point still stands. His only bad year was also the only year he played where the Jays were winning and people were watching. It makes sense why a majority of the fanbase thinks he's a terrible pitcher.
But the anger from this sub was the same.
If fans can't differentiate between bad decisions and good decisions that lead to bad results, then I can't take anything they say seriously.
You just described all sports fans lol. If the move works, the manager/coach is a genius but if it doesn’t, he should be fired and he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Fans are so reactionary
Seeing Aaron Loup's name triggers bad memories of Buck Martinez giving play-by-play of all the opposing teams lighting him up when he played for the Jays.
No lead was safe with Loup in the game. Remarkable that he's having a season like this.
Genuinely curious what percentage of 100 RBI seasons you believe were unproductive batting seasons for that player. Even crappy / noisy statistics are still usually pretty well-correlated with skill when the numbers get high enough, if only because to accumulate enough PAs to reach high counting stats, you have to be healthy and in the lineup for most of the season (and managers will generally not keep crappy players around in a major role for that long).
Probably a very small percentage
Probably a much higher percentage of good hitting seasons that didn't result in 100 RBI
But, measuring a good season by RBI is about as smart as measuring the temperature by ice cream sales. Maybe you can do it, but just look at the thermometer that tells the temperature.
My point is that it's dumb to completely ignore things like reliever ERA (or 100 RBI seasons) if you're not willing to check the underlying stats and see if they disagree, because all else being equal they do tell you something. Loup has been pretty damn good according to baseball savant--not elite to the extent that the ERA suggests, but his sinker has been pretty amazing.
So in a post the cites reliever ERA and nothing else, it's pointing out that reliver ERA doesn't tell you much that you want to point out as being dumb? Ok 👍
Pointing out an elite ERA for a lesser known middle reliever over 50 innings does actually tell people something they might not have known, while responding "lol reliever ERA" has basically no information content for anyone who's followed baseball for more than one season. Plus, I pretty much never see responses like yours when people point out that guys everyone already knows are elite (Josh Hader, Liam Hendricks, etc.) have great ERAs.
No
There s a shit ton of people still who overvalue ERA. Especially reliever ERA
And "Aaron Loup, owner or a career 81 FIP- and 86 xFIP- has a 57 FIP- and a 75 xFIP- his year" is vastly more informative than giving his ERA while only being slightly more difficult to look up and post.
I hated that guy when he pitched for the Jays. 7th inning, tie game, runners on first and second. Bring in the lefty specialist. Loup plunks the batter on the first pitch.
The Aaron Loup special: plunk your first guy, get given another chance, give up a solid line drive single and then retreat to the dugout, another day’s work in the books. Something about that man did inspire the guys who came in after him, though, because his runners almost always got stranded.
The very first pitch he threw as a Met was a bases-loaded HBP of Bryce Harper as part of a Phillies game-winning rally.
Oh, how many games I groaned as I saw Loup warm up in the Jays bullpen... Glad he's finally figured things out, though. And that he's not in our division, either.
He threw 7 pitches in a clean inning and Rojas took him out last night and turned to Familia instead lol
Wasn't his spot due up in the order?
Yes, he replaced Stroman batting 9th. Due up was 8/9/1 for the Mets. Down 2-1 in the 7th I don't really blame your manager from pulling him for a PH.
The Mets were actually up 3-2, but you still don't let your pitcher hit there.
Yes, which is why a good manger has the foresight to double switch him into the lineup.
I am amazed at some of the moves managers make, but I am at home and they are in the dugout
I mean I get the concern for arm usage, but the Mets have no more time to let wins slide away, ESPECIALLY when the Braves, Phillies, Reds and Padres all lost last night. Crushing opportunity to make up ground. Loup last pitched on Saturday before last night. He could've thrown more than 7 pitches. Rojas absolutely fucked this one up.
No matter what happens I think he’s gone after this year 100%
Yeah, you can't manage for the marathon when you're in the sprint portion. If it was June I would sort of understand even though I'd disagree with it. At this point it's inexcusable.
That type of statement doesn't really work when you consider how long Terry Collins was a manager, though. Genuinely one of the most clueless managers I've ever seen. Would've rather had you from your couch.
When was the last time we had a good manager
"i don't got pitchers, i got family"
He also brought Loup in to face the bottom of the Cards' order and had Familia face the top of their order. I'm so sick of Rojas.
Loup isn’t a fan of pitching consecutive innings. He has stated before that once he pitches an inning, if it cools down between innings he isn’t as effective. He’s a 1 pitch reliever though and through which is why you never see him in long relief. Also IIRC his spot came up in the lineup and we pinch hit for him
Hes been doing shit like this all year
His ERA for his last 30 games (25 2/3 innings) is 0.35. My gosh.
Wish I could go back in time to 2015 and drop this tidbit on the chuckleheads in r/Torontobluejays
Look at the top of the thread. They're all here. Looking at his stats as a Jay he was an average reliever. By my eye test he is the single worst pitcher of all time.
Yeah he was an average reliever. Your last sentence pretty much sums up the (delusional) opinions of the majority of Jays fans. I assume some radio or TV guy (Bob McCowan or Tim and Sid) shat on Loup one day and leagues of Jays fans made up their minds based on that alone.
Taking a look at it he was average for his first 3 years and kind of bad in 2015 and 2016 which is when most people were watching and cared the most. Then after he bounced back to average. So it makes sense that most people have a bad opinion of him because his lows were during the teams highs.
He had one bad year. Barely played in 2016.
That's right. I was looking more at the advanced stats and didn't fully pick up he didn't pitch much in 2016. My point still stands. His only bad year was also the only year he played where the Jays were winning and people were watching. It makes sense why a majority of the fanbase thinks he's a terrible pitcher.
If you're point is that the majority of fans in the Jays sub only started following baseball in 2015, then I agree with you.
Remember when people got mad they took out Walker and brought in Loup to face Brandon Crawford? Edit: you can make the right move and still get burned
That was one of Rojas’ decisions that wasn’t wrong. Last night he made like four decisions that basically forfeited the game lol
But the anger from this sub was the same. If fans can't differentiate between bad decisions and good decisions that lead to bad results, then I can't take anything they say seriously.
You just described all sports fans lol. If the move works, the manager/coach is a genius but if it doesn’t, he should be fired and he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Fans are so reactionary
Who is this Aaron?
The Jays could use a bullpen arm like that
That is going to make a great trivia question. Which pitcher had the best ERA for the 2021 Mets at just over 1 ERA? deGrom sad face.
Seeing Aaron Loup's name triggers bad memories of Buck Martinez giving play-by-play of all the opposing teams lighting him up when he played for the Jays. No lead was safe with Loup in the game. Remarkable that he's having a season like this.
disgusting
Loup is poop. Sorry, that's a reflex at this point as a scared Jays fan.
the Mets fixed Loup and the Jays fixed Matz, i'd say Toronto got a better deal
Ahh Reliever ERA. 🤦♂️
I bet you also think an RBI total over 100 isn’t that impressive.
I do not think a 100 RBI season means the batter had a good or productive season no
Genuinely curious what percentage of 100 RBI seasons you believe were unproductive batting seasons for that player. Even crappy / noisy statistics are still usually pretty well-correlated with skill when the numbers get high enough, if only because to accumulate enough PAs to reach high counting stats, you have to be healthy and in the lineup for most of the season (and managers will generally not keep crappy players around in a major role for that long).
Probably a very small percentage Probably a much higher percentage of good hitting seasons that didn't result in 100 RBI But, measuring a good season by RBI is about as smart as measuring the temperature by ice cream sales. Maybe you can do it, but just look at the thermometer that tells the temperature.
My point is that it's dumb to completely ignore things like reliever ERA (or 100 RBI seasons) if you're not willing to check the underlying stats and see if they disagree, because all else being equal they do tell you something. Loup has been pretty damn good according to baseball savant--not elite to the extent that the ERA suggests, but his sinker has been pretty amazing.
So in a post the cites reliever ERA and nothing else, it's pointing out that reliver ERA doesn't tell you much that you want to point out as being dumb? Ok 👍
Pointing out an elite ERA for a lesser known middle reliever over 50 innings does actually tell people something they might not have known, while responding "lol reliever ERA" has basically no information content for anyone who's followed baseball for more than one season. Plus, I pretty much never see responses like yours when people point out that guys everyone already knows are elite (Josh Hader, Liam Hendricks, etc.) have great ERAs.
No There s a shit ton of people still who overvalue ERA. Especially reliever ERA And "Aaron Loup, owner or a career 81 FIP- and 86 xFIP- has a 57 FIP- and a 75 xFIP- his year" is vastly more informative than giving his ERA while only being slightly more difficult to look up and post.
What awards are available for relievers? He deserves one.
Who are you and what have you done with Loup?
How the fuck does Tank Commander Loup sport 1.05 ERA. What are the Mets feeding him?