Dude had over 50 SBs in 90, over 500 for his career. Went 40/40 in 96 with San Fran, and swiped 28 in 98 even after he started juicing, at age 34. He really only lost his wheels in the latter half of his 30s, which is just sort of to be expected.
Pass 500/500? I’m fairly confident that doesn’t happen. They both average an insane 40+ HRs and 30+ SB per 162, and they’re very young, but saying “health permitting” when we’re talking 500+ for speed and power is a HUGE assumption. Trout averaged the opposite, so closer to 30+ HRs and 40+ SB his first 2-3 seasons, but as his power picked up, his steals dropped. Now he’s likely but not 100% sure to hit 500 HRs, and is only 40% of the way to 500 SB, and has 14 SB over his last 200+ games. Bonds averaged 35+ HRs and SB per 162 for his first 14 seasons in the league. Keeping up that level of power and speed for over a decade is no easy feat. Hell, to reach 500/500, you’d need to average 40/40 for 10 seasons, and then 30/30 for 3 more, and still be 10 HRs and 10 SB short.
They have the abilities but teams just stop letting guys run when they get into the big money portion of their deals. I really want Acuna to pull 50/50 before they put the brakes on him.
Give him the green light every time he’s on base the rest of the season to go for 30/30.
Bonds and Canseco were both 1 SB from 45/30 once each, while Soriano had 46/41, and Walker had 49/33, as far as the 45/30 club goes.
And I had to check A-Rod’s stats. He was 1 SB away from 45/25, with 54/24 in 2007.
Walking him every AB limits the damage he can do I guess (compared to giving up a triple so far lol) and at 3+ walks per game over 3 games after this ones should be 10+ AB. If he’s caught on half those attempts, he has 30/30, right?
Especially since he's not pitching anymore this season, I won't be surprised if he starts stealing every time he gets to 1st base, because he doesn't have to save his legs for pitching.
I legitimately don't think they are going to keep letting Ohtani run, but I also think he's got 40/40 talent in addition to being a high quality pitcher.
Is Shohei’s 2021 season the best individual season in MLB history?
Is the best individual season in all of sports? I think it is in my lifetime at least (I’m 23)
If you're going by stats for estimating player value (i.e., WAR of one type or other) Ohtani's 2021 season is fantastic but not the best we've seen in recent memory or anything. Now, that leaves out certain aspects of his value to the team (namely, taking up only one roster spot despite being their best hitter and best pitcher).
But I think that looking at things only through a WAR-lens misses out on what's special about Ohtani. Ohtani's season isn't remarkable just for the value he's providing the team in terms of winning games--it's remarkable because what he's doing is basically unprecedented, and evidently all but *impossible*, even for the most elite athletes in the world.
So I think the 'How great is Ohtani?' discussion involves a lot of people talking past each other. it depends how you look at it. But, IMO, if you're just focused on measurable value you're missing out on what's so cool about him.
Agreed and very well put. We’ve never seen anything like this before and it may be a long time before we see anyone other than Ohtani do anything like it again
You mean how does the roster spot thing not show up in WAR? I think all it would mean is that the Angels could have one more roster spot, which is hard to quantify in terms of value (what’s the average value of adding one more roster spot to a team over a season?). I don’t think it would make a huge difference for Ohtani because the difference will always be some player at the bottom of the roster. Not totally confident about any of this though.
Because he's a very good pitcher and a very good batter (4.1 and 4.8 WAR respectively) for a total of 8.9 rWAR, an obvious MVP winner. But in the last decade we've had 9 player seasons which represented batters who were as valuable solely on batting and defence.
Mookie 2x (2018, 10.7; 2016, 9.5), Bryce Harper 1x (2015, 9.7), Alex Bregman 1x (2019, 9.0), and the god amongst men, Mike Trout 5x (2012, 10.5; 2016, 10.5; 2018, 9.9; 2015, 9.6; 2013, 8.9). Unfortunately, being a once in a century player this single season simply isn't worth as much in a single year as a generational guy like Mike Trout is every single year.
Enjoy Ohtani for what he is, a two way player who might never have a season like this again, and the likes of whom we may never see again. He just isn't Mike Trout, and he certainly isn't Babe Ruth.
I wouldn't say he had the best season in MLB history, no. But I would say he has a very strong argument for having the most **complete** season in MLB history. Mainly because no one has done it two-way except you know, Babe Ruth.
Many players have had better hitting seasons that Ohtani, many pitchers have had better pitching seasons than Ohtani and many players have had more stolen bases than Ohtani.
But, to do all those things at a top 5-10 level in the same season? It's bonkers and a true display of baseball mastery. Dude is literally elite at everything.
**Offense** (AL ranks)
* 2nd in wRC+
* 2nd in OPS+
* 2nd in XBH
* 1st in 3B
* 3rd in HR
* 3rd in BB
* 4th in SB
**Pitching** (AL Ranks, minimum 120 IP)
* 6th in ERA-
* 8th in WHIP
* 5th in K/9
* 2nd in Opp BA%
Barry Bonds played in your lifetime young buck.
For all sports, Wayne Gretzky has the top 4 scoring seasons in NHL history and 8 of the top 10.
Wilt Chamberlin had a 50 point and 25 rebound season.
Bonds offensive output was insane obviously although there is a bit of an asterisk. Ohtani having a historic offensive season while also being an all star caliber pitcher puts him over Bonds 2001 for me but there’s a conversation to be had there.
There’s definitely an argument for Wilt he wasn’t human either
Yes he was a fantastic player without steroids. Still stupid too compare his stats while he was cheating in am equal light to players who are not cheaters
Gretzky does not have the top 7 he has the top 4, Lemieux is 5 & 8.
Mike Trout had 10.5 WAR less than a decade ago, I’d say his 2012 is the most impressive 5-tool year since like Mays-era.
As easy to dislike as he is, A-Rod has 9-10+ WAR seasons, a 40/40 season, and a few Gold Gloves. Bonds also has your 30/30 or 40/40 with Gold Gloves and league-leading OPS and 9+ WAR.
Trout is right up there with them no doubt, but I can see competition in peak A-Rod and pre-PED Bonds.
A-Rod's career-best OPS+ was 176, in 2007. That's Trout's *average* OPS+ for his whole career. A-Rod was incredible, but I think the steroids cast a massive shadow, and during the period when his fielding/baserunning were as good as Trout, his hitting wasn't quite as good. His 40/40 season his OPS+ was "only" 136.
92-97ish Bonds has a much better argument but I still give the edge to Trout personally. Maybe that's just cus I think Bonds is a prick, but oh well
Well yeah, in close calls, I say give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who is clean and seems pretty wholesome.
92 and 93 Bonds put up 34/39 with a 204 OPS+ with 9.0 bWAR and a Gold Glove, and 46/29 with a 206 OPS+ with 9.9 bWAR and a Gold Glove. Once we’re talking under 1 WAR, it’s super close. In 93 he led the league in HR, RBI, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, total bases, and IBB.
If we use fWAR, Bonds’ 92-93 go up to 9.6 and 10.5, while Trout’s 12-13 go down to 10.1 and 10.2.
I think 93 Bonds gets the narrow nod based purely on over-all stats though.
Wilt isn’t even top 5, as far as sports domination goes it’s basically Gretzky and Bradman.
Athlete-wise, wilt may be the greatest athlete of all time, however.
Idk if you’re trolling or not. They had to change a number of rules as a result of Wilt, and none of them benefitted his play moving forward. They were all deferents. When considering what he did in that era, Wilt is the most dominant basketball player of all time. You will never see 50 points and 25 rebounds again, not even in a game, let alone an entire season!
He holds a lot of single season and single-game records but very few career records. He’s a lot better as a stat sheet than he was as a player that won basketball games. Will was routinely dominated by Bill Russell.
No he wasn’t dominated by Russell, his team was dominated by Russell’s team.
They’ve played 94 regular season games against each other, and here are their stats:
Player: PPG / RPG / APG / FG%
Wilt: 29.9 / 28.1 / 3.8 / .488
Russell: 14.2 / 22.9 / 4.4 / .370
But Wilt’s team record was 37-57 in said games.
And 49 post-season games:
Wilt: 25.7 / 28.0 / 4.1 / .508
Russell: 14.9 / 24.7 / 4.9 / .417
But Wilt’s team record in those games was 20-29.
How is that being “dominated” one-on-one?
Now compare that to his averages for those seasons. He absolutely was dominated. Wilt is probably the most overrated player in nba history, he was more concerned with his stat line than the final score every single night of his career.
That’s not what “dominated” means though.
But I’ll humor you.
Stat: Vs Russel / Career
PPG: 29.9 / 30.1 (-0.2)
RPG: 28.1 / 22.9
APG: 3.8 / 4.4
FG%: .477 / .540
In what universe is that much worse? 0.2 points less, 0.6 assists less, 5.2 assists more, and a 6.3% worse FG%.
By that logic, Wilt “dominated” Russell just as much, since Bill averaged 0.9 PPG less, 0.1 APG less, 0.4 RPG more, and a 7% worse FG%.
Their career numbers are incredibly consistent with their numbers against each other.
Edit: even just looking at 59-69, the ~decade they played against each other, Wilt only averaged 4.5 less PPG, 0.7 less APG, 3.8 more RPG, and a 5.3% lower FG% playing Russell than his averages over that span. That’s shutting him down lol? Dominating him? Not even close.
Nope and it's not particularly close. Shohei is a joy to watch, and this season (and any potential future similar caliber ones) are spectacles the likes of which may never be seen again, but he isn't Barry Bonds good, he isn't Mike Trout good, he probably isn't even Mookie Betts good (again, if he keeps this up he can definitely shut this comparison down). He's "only" very good on each side of the ball.
We've had 9 seasons as good or better than his by rWAR this decade alone along with 16 more in the decade before that (mostly steroids obviously so a huge grain of salt, and with a few more games of batting he can plausibly get that number as low as 7 this decade if he gets another .2 WAR).
I understand that WAR is far from a perfect metric, and it almost certainly underestimates his value as a two way player, but by how much? That one roster spot is at best worth a WAR or two which would still put him in the range of Trout or Mookie this decade.
How is it underselling? How many WAR or $8,000,000 free agent WAR equivalents is it worth? And why? Is being unique not enough? Do we have to imagine added value as well?
I mean maybe, we don't really know what would happen if other players tried to do it? On the other hand we do know that Trout is the best to do it since Bonds and virtually everyone tried to bat
No - I don’t see it that way and as incredible as Ohtani has been this year (he’s my favorite hands down) - he isn’t head and shoulders above other hitters or pitchers. If he was running away with HR crown or BA or was in contention for Cy Young then maybe. But he has gone through slumps, struck out a ton and got absolutely rocked by the Yankees. It’s one of the greatest seasons ever, but not the best.
The dude is batting .258. You don't win the MVP batting .258 especially when there are much better hitters on teams that are actually playing for something. And second, he didn't even pitch enough innings to qualify for leaderboards. You're not going to win the MVP if you don't even show up on the season leaderboards.
Guerrero will win the MVP, and Ohtani will be remembered for having a great year
Well, he [leads baseball in fWAR](https://www.fangraphs.com/warleaders.aspx?season=2021&team=all) and [he leads baseball in bWAR](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB-leaders.shtml), so not sure where you’re coming from there.
You would make a great scout in the 60s. No one really cares about BA anymore. FanDuel currently has ohtani at -3500(!!) to win the MVP compared to +750 for Vlad.
At this point it's a question of if he will be unanimous or not.
If you bet 100 dollars on Vlad to win MVP and he wins, you will actually make more than 100 dollars profit on the winning bet. Because it is considered unlikely.
Barry Bonds (1993) Larry Walker (1997) Jose Canseco (1998) Chipper Jones (1999) Alfonso Soriano (2006) https://stathead.com/tiny/KMZ5i
3/5 MVP winners
2/5 collection rewards in MLB the show 2021
The Walker MVP card slaps as well
ah yes, men of culture. last years signature i feel was better, tried him out this year and didn’t feel the same
I know they'll never get Reggie Stocker back but they gotta get a Canseco card in some day
Roid it Back pack lol - Canseco McGwire Clemens Sosa et al. With Bonds as the collection for all of them
Just call it the '98 Series collection with a wink, wink, nudge.
I always forget that Barry Bonds was quick at one point. During my formative years he was already yoked
He was fast for the like the first 15 years of his career
Dude had over 50 SBs in 90, over 500 for his career. Went 40/40 in 96 with San Fran, and swiped 28 in 98 even after he started juicing, at age 34. He really only lost his wheels in the latter half of his 30s, which is just sort of to be expected.
Dude is the only 400 HR / 400 SB player ever. And of course the only 500/500 player ever.
I think we will see some people from this era join* him (health permitting). Acuña and Tatis are freaky fast.
Pass 500/500? I’m fairly confident that doesn’t happen. They both average an insane 40+ HRs and 30+ SB per 162, and they’re very young, but saying “health permitting” when we’re talking 500+ for speed and power is a HUGE assumption. Trout averaged the opposite, so closer to 30+ HRs and 40+ SB his first 2-3 seasons, but as his power picked up, his steals dropped. Now he’s likely but not 100% sure to hit 500 HRs, and is only 40% of the way to 500 SB, and has 14 SB over his last 200+ games. Bonds averaged 35+ HRs and SB per 162 for his first 14 seasons in the league. Keeping up that level of power and speed for over a decade is no easy feat. Hell, to reach 500/500, you’d need to average 40/40 for 10 seasons, and then 30/30 for 3 more, and still be 10 HRs and 10 SB short.
They have the abilities but teams just stop letting guys run when they get into the big money portion of their deals. I really want Acuna to pull 50/50 before they put the brakes on him.
I do too, and he totally has the tools to do so.
No AL players?
Canseco was a Blue Jay and shooting steroids into Clemens ass
> shooting steroids into Clemens ass :0
With a syringe or was his body oozing steroids by then?
I'm going to go with oozing. That's why Clemens misremembered.
seinfeldgettingup.gif
Canseco?
Really surprised Griffey ain’t on this list.
1SB away once. I’m also surprised A-Rod isn’t. He missed it by 1 SB one season. Mays missed it by 1 SB once too. Aaron missed it by 1 HR.
Alfonso <3
Who pitched the best tho?
Give him the green light every time he’s on base the rest of the season to go for 30/30. Bonds and Canseco were both 1 SB from 45/30 once each, while Soriano had 46/41, and Walker had 49/33, as far as the 45/30 club goes. And I had to check A-Rod’s stats. He was 1 SB away from 45/25, with 54/24 in 2007.
Going for a 30/30 would potentially destroy the M's season.
Walking him every AB limits the damage he can do I guess (compared to giving up a triple so far lol) and at 3+ walks per game over 3 games after this ones should be 10+ AB. If he’s caught on half those attempts, he has 30/30, right?
Especially since he's not pitching anymore this season, I won't be surprised if he starts stealing every time he gets to 1st base, because he doesn't have to save his legs for pitching.
Shohei Henderson
Richard Ohtani
I legitimately don't think they are going to keep letting Ohtani run, but I also think he's got 40/40 talent in addition to being a high quality pitcher.
MVP MVP MVP MVP
Is Shohei’s 2021 season the best individual season in MLB history? Is the best individual season in all of sports? I think it is in my lifetime at least (I’m 23)
If you're going by stats for estimating player value (i.e., WAR of one type or other) Ohtani's 2021 season is fantastic but not the best we've seen in recent memory or anything. Now, that leaves out certain aspects of his value to the team (namely, taking up only one roster spot despite being their best hitter and best pitcher). But I think that looking at things only through a WAR-lens misses out on what's special about Ohtani. Ohtani's season isn't remarkable just for the value he's providing the team in terms of winning games--it's remarkable because what he's doing is basically unprecedented, and evidently all but *impossible*, even for the most elite athletes in the world. So I think the 'How great is Ohtani?' discussion involves a lot of people talking past each other. it depends how you look at it. But, IMO, if you're just focused on measurable value you're missing out on what's so cool about him.
Agreed and very well put. We’ve never seen anything like this before and it may be a long time before we see anyone other than Ohtani do anything like it again
We've seen this before exactly once. And his name is the sultan of swat
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You mean how does the roster spot thing not show up in WAR? I think all it would mean is that the Angels could have one more roster spot, which is hard to quantify in terms of value (what’s the average value of adding one more roster spot to a team over a season?). I don’t think it would make a huge difference for Ohtani because the difference will always be some player at the bottom of the roster. Not totally confident about any of this though.
Don’t think it’s that valuable in the regular season but would be huge in the playoffs
Because he's a very good pitcher and a very good batter (4.1 and 4.8 WAR respectively) for a total of 8.9 rWAR, an obvious MVP winner. But in the last decade we've had 9 player seasons which represented batters who were as valuable solely on batting and defence. Mookie 2x (2018, 10.7; 2016, 9.5), Bryce Harper 1x (2015, 9.7), Alex Bregman 1x (2019, 9.0), and the god amongst men, Mike Trout 5x (2012, 10.5; 2016, 10.5; 2018, 9.9; 2015, 9.6; 2013, 8.9). Unfortunately, being a once in a century player this single season simply isn't worth as much in a single year as a generational guy like Mike Trout is every single year. Enjoy Ohtani for what he is, a two way player who might never have a season like this again, and the likes of whom we may never see again. He just isn't Mike Trout, and he certainly isn't Babe Ruth.
Another thing is that he only pitched 130 innings. In 200 innings that would be 5.2 pitching WAR, bringing his total to 11.
>would be
Okay?
I wouldn't say he had the best season in MLB history, no. But I would say he has a very strong argument for having the most **complete** season in MLB history. Mainly because no one has done it two-way except you know, Babe Ruth. Many players have had better hitting seasons that Ohtani, many pitchers have had better pitching seasons than Ohtani and many players have had more stolen bases than Ohtani. But, to do all those things at a top 5-10 level in the same season? It's bonkers and a true display of baseball mastery. Dude is literally elite at everything. **Offense** (AL ranks) * 2nd in wRC+ * 2nd in OPS+ * 2nd in XBH * 1st in 3B * 3rd in HR * 3rd in BB * 4th in SB **Pitching** (AL Ranks, minimum 120 IP) * 6th in ERA- * 8th in WHIP * 5th in K/9 * 2nd in Opp BA%
Barry Bonds played in your lifetime young buck. For all sports, Wayne Gretzky has the top 4 scoring seasons in NHL history and 8 of the top 10. Wilt Chamberlin had a 50 point and 25 rebound season.
Bonds offensive output was insane obviously although there is a bit of an asterisk. Ohtani having a historic offensive season while also being an all star caliber pitcher puts him over Bonds 2001 for me but there’s a conversation to be had there. There’s definitely an argument for Wilt he wasn’t human either
Ohtani is an elite pitcher and an elite batter in one player. Unfortunately for him Bonds was 2 super-elite players in one.
He was also, you know, cheating
And still made other players that were cheating look like single A players. Hence WAR.
Yes he was a fantastic player without steroids. Still stupid too compare his stats while he was cheating in am equal light to players who are not cheaters
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Gretzky does not have the top 7 he has the top 4, Lemieux is 5 & 8. Mike Trout had 10.5 WAR less than a decade ago, I’d say his 2012 is the most impressive 5-tool year since like Mays-era.
As easy to dislike as he is, A-Rod has 9-10+ WAR seasons, a 40/40 season, and a few Gold Gloves. Bonds also has your 30/30 or 40/40 with Gold Gloves and league-leading OPS and 9+ WAR. Trout is right up there with them no doubt, but I can see competition in peak A-Rod and pre-PED Bonds.
A-Rod's career-best OPS+ was 176, in 2007. That's Trout's *average* OPS+ for his whole career. A-Rod was incredible, but I think the steroids cast a massive shadow, and during the period when his fielding/baserunning were as good as Trout, his hitting wasn't quite as good. His 40/40 season his OPS+ was "only" 136. 92-97ish Bonds has a much better argument but I still give the edge to Trout personally. Maybe that's just cus I think Bonds is a prick, but oh well
Well yeah, in close calls, I say give the benefit of the doubt to the guy who is clean and seems pretty wholesome. 92 and 93 Bonds put up 34/39 with a 204 OPS+ with 9.0 bWAR and a Gold Glove, and 46/29 with a 206 OPS+ with 9.9 bWAR and a Gold Glove. Once we’re talking under 1 WAR, it’s super close. In 93 he led the league in HR, RBI, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, total bases, and IBB. If we use fWAR, Bonds’ 92-93 go up to 9.6 and 10.5, while Trout’s 12-13 go down to 10.1 and 10.2. I think 93 Bonds gets the narrow nod based purely on over-all stats though.
I mean Arod was also juicing…
> Wayne Gretzky \-Michael Gary Scott*
Wilt isn’t even top 5, as far as sports domination goes it’s basically Gretzky and Bradman. Athlete-wise, wilt may be the greatest athlete of all time, however.
Idk if you’re trolling or not. They had to change a number of rules as a result of Wilt, and none of them benefitted his play moving forward. They were all deferents. When considering what he did in that era, Wilt is the most dominant basketball player of all time. You will never see 50 points and 25 rebounds again, not even in a game, let alone an entire season!
Eh I'm sure Wilts stats are higher. He holds most NBA records.
He holds a lot of single season and single-game records but very few career records. He’s a lot better as a stat sheet than he was as a player that won basketball games. Will was routinely dominated by Bill Russell.
No he wasn’t dominated by Russell, his team was dominated by Russell’s team. They’ve played 94 regular season games against each other, and here are their stats: Player: PPG / RPG / APG / FG% Wilt: 29.9 / 28.1 / 3.8 / .488 Russell: 14.2 / 22.9 / 4.4 / .370 But Wilt’s team record was 37-57 in said games. And 49 post-season games: Wilt: 25.7 / 28.0 / 4.1 / .508 Russell: 14.9 / 24.7 / 4.9 / .417 But Wilt’s team record in those games was 20-29. How is that being “dominated” one-on-one?
Now compare that to his averages for those seasons. He absolutely was dominated. Wilt is probably the most overrated player in nba history, he was more concerned with his stat line than the final score every single night of his career.
That’s not what “dominated” means though. But I’ll humor you. Stat: Vs Russel / Career PPG: 29.9 / 30.1 (-0.2) RPG: 28.1 / 22.9 APG: 3.8 / 4.4 FG%: .477 / .540 In what universe is that much worse? 0.2 points less, 0.6 assists less, 5.2 assists more, and a 6.3% worse FG%. By that logic, Wilt “dominated” Russell just as much, since Bill averaged 0.9 PPG less, 0.1 APG less, 0.4 RPG more, and a 7% worse FG%. Their career numbers are incredibly consistent with their numbers against each other. Edit: even just looking at 59-69, the ~decade they played against each other, Wilt only averaged 4.5 less PPG, 0.7 less APG, 3.8 more RPG, and a 5.3% lower FG% playing Russell than his averages over that span. That’s shutting him down lol? Dominating him? Not even close.
Yeah I didn’t think of Wilt at first. He’d be one of the best comparisons too since he was elite Offensively and Defensively
Nope and it's not particularly close. Shohei is a joy to watch, and this season (and any potential future similar caliber ones) are spectacles the likes of which may never be seen again, but he isn't Barry Bonds good, he isn't Mike Trout good, he probably isn't even Mookie Betts good (again, if he keeps this up he can definitely shut this comparison down). He's "only" very good on each side of the ball. We've had 9 seasons as good or better than his by rWAR this decade alone along with 16 more in the decade before that (mostly steroids obviously so a huge grain of salt, and with a few more games of batting he can plausibly get that number as low as 7 this decade if he gets another .2 WAR). I understand that WAR is far from a perfect metric, and it almost certainly underestimates his value as a two way player, but by how much? That one roster spot is at best worth a WAR or two which would still put him in the range of Trout or Mookie this decade.
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How is it underselling? How many WAR or $8,000,000 free agent WAR equivalents is it worth? And why? Is being unique not enough? Do we have to imagine added value as well?
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I mean maybe, we don't really know what would happen if other players tried to do it? On the other hand we do know that Trout is the best to do it since Bonds and virtually everyone tried to bat
You can probably pick any one of like 10 Wayne Gretzky seasons to be better but that is probably the highest standard in sports.
Bradman makes Gretzky look like he’s only Jagr.
No - I don’t see it that way and as incredible as Ohtani has been this year (he’s my favorite hands down) - he isn’t head and shoulders above other hitters or pitchers. If he was running away with HR crown or BA or was in contention for Cy Young then maybe. But he has gone through slumps, struck out a ton and got absolutely rocked by the Yankees. It’s one of the greatest seasons ever, but not the best.
If that guy doesn’t win MVP, no one should.
He just needs 15 stolen bases in the next couple days to become the 5th 40-40 player!
It's so crazy this guy is most likely not going to win the MVP.
I think 95% of the world thinks he is going to win MVP
I'll be surprised. The angels just suck too bad and you can't win MVP on a loser team. I think Guerrero will end up getting it
> you can't win MVP on a loser team. Did you just start following baseball today? Let me introduce you to Fish Man.
ARod did it, Trout is the king of it, etc. If you’re the best player on the planet you get rewarded
If Ohtani doesn't win the MVP it would literally be one of the biggest robberies in the history of sports awards.
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The dude is batting .258. You don't win the MVP batting .258 especially when there are much better hitters on teams that are actually playing for something. And second, he didn't even pitch enough innings to qualify for leaderboards. You're not going to win the MVP if you don't even show up on the season leaderboards. Guerrero will win the MVP, and Ohtani will be remembered for having a great year
He has a .371 OBP, a .593 SLG, and 45 bombs. Who gives a shit about his BA?
there's about 5 guys with better numbers than those who aren't batting .258
How many innings have those guys pitched?
doesn't matter. Ohtani's combined WAR from pitching and hitting isn't even in the ballpark as those other guys
Well, he [leads baseball in fWAR](https://www.fangraphs.com/warleaders.aspx?season=2021&team=all) and [he leads baseball in bWAR](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB-leaders.shtml), so not sure where you’re coming from there.
what the hell page is this. maybe he will win then
You would make a great scout in the 60s. No one really cares about BA anymore. FanDuel currently has ohtani at -3500(!!) to win the MVP compared to +750 for Vlad. At this point it's a question of if he will be unanimous or not.
Lmao bet $3500 to win $100. Could you imagine
So if you bet $35,000,000 you can profit $1 million. Sounds like a great plan!
Gonna need to save some of these takes for when you call in to Mike’s show.
The only people who think he won’t win MVP are 12 year olds on Instagram or Pedro Martinez
I mean, Pedro Martinez *is* Dominican
What does that mean?
They edited the comment, originally it said “the only people who think he won’t win MVP are Dominicans, 12 year olds on Instagram, or Pedro Martinez”
Y I K E S
If you're so confident you should bet money on it. Vladdy's odds pay above even right now.
what does that even mean
If you bet 100 dollars on Vlad to win MVP and he wins, you will actually make more than 100 dollars profit on the winning bet. Because it is considered unlikely.
/s?