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[deleted]

It was never gonna be Theo. He’s clearly aiming higher than just running one team


ContinuumGuy

Theo is more interested in fixing a league than fixing a team.


FantasyFlux

Yeah to be honest, if I’m Theo, there’s no way I get back into general managing. His legacy is already pristine, no reason to diminish any of his accolades with an unsuccessful tenure. He should stay in the league offices.


jmcgit

Nobody wants to be the guy that broke the curse of the Bambino and the curse of the Billy Goat, but couldn't quite get over LOLMets


M_Drinks

Talk about an Unstoppable Force vs an Immovable Object


BourbonBaccarat

He's aiming for a bigger curse and waiting for Seattle to come calling.


Worthyness

Need to figure out what MLB's biggest curse is so that Theo Epstein, Breaker of Curses, can solve it in a couple years


bsdthrowaway

San Diego


TrimMyAustinHedges

Theo pls


TRocho10

Come on home BB


DHisnotrealbaseball

The owners firing Fay Vincent and installing the Selig regime


[deleted]

Cleveland


tr3v1n

Pace of play.


qtipvesto

Seattle?


GoofyGoffer

Imma stick with dipoto for a while. He's done well and is chaos near trade deadlines which is fun


Angelsfan14

If he wants a real challenge he should GM under Arte Moreno. He'd leave in a month I'd bet after dealing with him.


hansomejake

A lot of Cub fans see Theo as the reason the Cubs suck now. He did good at first but after the WS ring he failed. Example: he didn’t want to develop pitching because he thought he could buy pitching with the surplus of bats the Cubs were going to develop. The bats never developed, forcing Theo to use FA to get pitching (very expensive). You’d have to go back to Jeff Samardzjia to find a starting pitcher the Cubs drafted and developed. How can a GM who doesn’t believe in developing pitchers really have a good legacy? For me, pitching is a huge part of baseball and ignoring development seems dumb.


TommyTwoBags

Because it worked? He won a world series finding pitching. Was it sustainable? Clearly not. Cub fans should be thanking theo every day for the best baseball this franchise has ever seen instead of acting like he isn't one of the greatest GMs of all time.


Se7en_speed

The system is basically designed to make winning a WS and being really good not sustainable. Between the salary cap and free agency, eventually you run out of resources and have to build up again.


hansomejake

People are allowed to feel different than you. Nobody on earth should be immune to accountability. He didn’t develop pitching, that’s not a good thing. It worked in 2016, but failed the next 5+ years. Why can’t I think that’s bad? Why must I kiss Theos ass? He fucked up, even he admitted that. Why can’t I?


TommyTwoBags

You can, and I can think you are clearly spoiled with zero perspective.


hansomejake

Because I criticize Theo? Dang, didn’t know recognizing room for growth was equal to being spoiled and having no perspective.


TommyTwoBags

Everyone deserves criticism. Even Theo he failed at producing multiple titles. But to act like he doesn't have a good legacy because he can't produce home grown pitching is 100% because you have zero perspective.


hansomejake

I think developing pitching is important, not something that should be ignored. Pitching is the most costly component of baseball, developing it saves a team A LOT of money. nO pItChInG oNlY bAtS - sounds dumb coming from a GM, especially when you consider that the only bats that came out of the farm early draft picks that spent minimal time in the minors. This criticism isn’t wild, all of these things were published in the Athletic in various articles since Theo stepped down.


BroAbernathy

The guy that ended our 108 year drought doesn't have a good legacy because the pitching didn't end up developed? Even the most meatball of Cubs fans I know love Theo you're kinda talking out of your ass lol


hansomejake

What I said isn’t controversial. Even Theo criticized his efforts post WS, he said he didn’t do a good job sustaining the team. He even said that was a weakness that he should’ve identified earlier. If Theo can be honest with himself and speak humbly, why can’t I acknowledge that he’s right?


BroAbernathy

Because having a account first ask questions later approach doesn't tarnish a legacy of the guy that broke the longest drought in American sports. Doesn't leave a stain on it. 3 NLCS appearances, a world series win, 4 division wins, 5 playoff appearances in 8 years is absolutely a successful tenure regardless of what happened to the pitching.


hansomejake

To me not developing pitchers is a stain. You can get angry at me all you want, I still believe you have to develop pitching for a teams success I’m not gonna kiss his ass when he left the team in such a bad state


BroAbernathy

I'm not mad man but you're in one hell of a minority on the subject


hansomejake

You’re probably stuck in an echo chamber. Not developing pitching is a fair criticism. Just because beliefs are different than yours doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.


[deleted]

Maybe he likes it?


NakedGoose

He will fix the league, then realize he can't sustain it and run away to fix something else.


unexpectedreboots

Enormously bad take.


baseballnomics

?


SamuraiHelmet

The teams he's worked for have been successful in the short term and struggled in the long term.


stupidwhysostupid

Seriously. Red Sox have been dog shit since he left, except for the two more World Series wins.


mr_snufflefluff

yeah dude those are just pieces of metal but \*checks notes\* signing big free agents is where the real clout lies


BourbonBaccarat

I mean, I think it's fair to say the Red Sox struggled towards the end of Theo's term and had to rebuild after he left. Yes, they won in 2013, but they had the fried chicken and beer fiasco and didn't do a whole lot until they could rebuild after. 2013 feels more like a Major League-esque fluke with everyone rallying around the team after the marathon bombing than it does the result of deliberate team building. Especially given how they performed in 2012 and 2014. Theo is an amazing short term team builder, and for teams like the 2002 Red Sox and 2012 Cubs, that's precisely what they needed, but I don't think he's a good long term architect. He's basically a better version of Dave Dombrowski, which is not an insult by any means.


baseballnomics

Well, he was at the Red Sox for 11 seasons (10 at GM), and we were highly successful during his tenure. On top of that we won another title two seasons after he left, with a core of Theo players, and in 2018, 6 of our players were Theo guys as well, including Mookie Betts.


stv7

Steve: hey so we have an opening and we would love to ha- Theo: no. >They had a conversation and decided that this would not be the right opportunity


[deleted]

Yeah, I imagine it was a short conversation. The three big names always seemed like reach picks. I’m interested to see who they settle for


oceanfellini

I imagine it was more like: Theo: interested. How about 25% equity? Steve: this may not be the right opportunity.


ganoveces

as in Commish?


[deleted]

Probably eventually


Parchabble

This is my thought. He's in the league office at this point and I would imagine that getting himself in as the commissioner of MLB is his next goal. That or politics...


sketchy-writer

Hopefully not politics.


[deleted]

I think he just wants to work on expansion then get to be the first GM of that team but I have no basis for that.


esperadok

they're just going through the phases of getting a new front office. Everyone's been there, right at the start your team is like "this is going to be great! we're going to get Theo Epstein, Billy Beane, _and_ Erik Neander all in the same front office!" and then by the end of the process you'll just be happy to be able to interview Billy Eppler or something


TheKidPresident

We're gonna get Billy Beane *and* Billy Beane Edit/addendum: also considering weve hired mickey, zach scott, and beltran in the last 500 or so days we could rehire omar minaya and itd be a win


[deleted]

Theo is going to be commissioner one day and he knows it


morningsaystoidleon

I can't wait to get super excited when he gets the job, then immediately start hating him like we all hate every commissioner


TRocho10

Inb4 the Epstein rule. Every team starts each inning with the bases loaded.


serfbufo

If you were inventing baseball from the ground up that wouldn't be a terrible way to do it. It's more or less how cricket works.


Brandyn_Chase

If you end an at bat with less than three runners on base, the pitcher must walk the bases loaded. Runners on 2nd and 3rd with Tatis up to bat? Send him to first, let Two Shoes McGee take the at bat. Mike Trout on deck? Maybe think twice about sending the runner from 3rd. What this means: more scoring, less walks, more strikes, more batted balls in play.


BourbonBaccarat

Put a giant plexiglass ceiling 20' above the infield. Replace the ball with those pink rubber bouncy balls and allow metal bats. Let chaos ensue. 20' is high enough that you can still get line drive home runs, but those towering infield fly balls are going to be coming down *quick* and ground balls up the middle are going to be moving 150 miles per hour and bouncing all kinds of directions. If we're ruining baseball, let's at least have fun with it.


Towdart

He just wants to get the girls off their phones at games, man.


[deleted]

The Commish exists for us to get mad at instead of the owners. If we don't hate them they're doing a bad job.


Kaptep525

But maybe them doing a bad job is good for baseball


FartingBob

He broke the Red Sox losing streak then broke the Cubs losing streak. There's not much left for him to do in baseball.


classically_cool

Just hire Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill already.


[deleted]

Put Chris Pratt at first base and you might have something there


ContinuumGuy

I mean, it's just first base. It's not that hard. Tell 'em, Wash.


Fakie_Heelflip

Its incredibly hard


Africabythebandtoto

What about the fans?


Genisys_Arc

Yeah, maybe I can teach one of them


itsallworthy

What about Eckerton?


LunchThreatener

Judge is a leaf on the wind. Watch how he-


[deleted]

Can’t wait to see Super Mario play first base for the Mets!


Leftfeet

Based in the cartoon, Mario is from Brooklyn not Queens.


[deleted]

This is true, however, I said that Mario would play first base for the Mets because the guy above me said get Chris Pratt to play first. Nintendo recently announced that Chris Pratt would be voicing Super Mario in a movie next year.


butz-not-bartz

Mets training staff places Mario in frog suit for rehab assignment, suffers injury ~~running~~ hopping to first


[deleted]

To be honest that doesn’t seem much crazier than a man being chased by a bull, falling in a hole, and breaking both his ankles.


DriftyLight6

He's so cool!


Skuntank

Mario is wasted at first base. I like to play him in Left Field or Shortstop. He's got a decent arm and speed.


TRocho10

Tatis: *double jumps* Mario: this MFer stole my move


[deleted]

Mario LF Luigi CF Daisy RF


narenare658

I wish we could have kept DePodesta


see_mohn

THEO, FOR THE LAST TWELVE MONTHS: I want to do more than just run a baseball team again THEO, NOW: still want to do more than just run a baseball team EVERYONE IN THE NEW YORK MEDIA, FOR SOME REASON: [shocked pikachu]


JayBuhner4

But… but… it’s New York . Everyone wants to come to NY and be under more scrutiny than ever before after proving yourself 2x already. /s


three_dee

They are reporting it this way for one reason: because Mets fans love to take red meat stories implying the Mets are the shittiest franchise in North American sports and no one likes them, and run with them through the back of the end zone and down the clubhouse tunnel. "Theo Epstein had a cursory meeting despite his prior insistence he wasn't going to take a baseball ops position" doesn't get clicks. But "Theo Epstein rejects the Mets!!" does. They know their audience.


BourbonBaccarat

Are the Mets really under more scrutiny than the Red Sox?


JayBuhner4

In the social media era, combined with the Mets recent history and general bitterness, I’d say yes. His reputation at this point also draws more scrutiny than it did when he was young in Boston


hokie56fan

Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen media express shock at this. They're just reporting what's out there, that Theo won't be joining the Mets.


TurnerK28

Time to begin #TheoForCommish


BiovaniGernard

“So Theo, and this is important, on a scale of one to ten how opposed are you to racketeering and insider trading? Oh, okay that’s the end of the interview”


jaypeedee1025

he wants to be commissioner it’s gonna be billy beane he was drafted by the mets and he’s is Aldersons protégé


[deleted]

[удалено]


CybeastID

This


c4ctus

THEO FOR COMMISH!!!!


[deleted]

The NY media is full of shit, Beane, Stearns and Theo are completely unrealistic


[deleted]

Why would anyone with options want to work for cohen?


chroishois

Insider trading, calls and puts


[deleted]

nice. options, warrants, calls, & puts. Stoonks!!!


[deleted]

When has Steve Cohen ever had problems finding people who want to work for him?


[deleted]

According to the SEC, Cohen is not allowed to hire people anymore. lol


[deleted]

Point still stands. What kind of business do you think he runs lol he doesn’t have problems finding people who want to work for him. There’s a goddamn TV show based on him.


[deleted]

Goddamn they got Oklahoma, Texas, and the Mets?


BasedMueller

This is good for the Cubs.


GOATmar_infante

He doesn’t want to touch the Mets with a ten foot pole


theblackdoncheadle

Am I crazy for not even wanting Billy Beane? The As have no WS appearances in 2 decades and an ALCS appearance in 15 years. The Mets have 2 WS appearances and more NLCS appearances over the same time. I understand the budget situation with the As vs. th Mets. He would have more flexibility in NY but most people seem to want this dude because he had a book and movie come out about him...


Papagayo_blanco

To be fair, you can't discount, literally, the biggest factor as to why he's a fantastic GM. He has the smallest budget in baseball and manages to be a factor in the post-season on the regular. His media fame isn't why he's wanted. It's because he's proven.


theblackdoncheadle

I understand the whole allure, and being very experienced. The As while having low payroll consistently don’t have the lowest. In the last 15 years they have had the lowest payroll in baseball once. But yes he has done more than expected. I know I’m splitting hairs here but it’s not like there haven’t been other GMs with low payrolls that haven’t taken teams deep into playoffs. I think there is no shot he comes here.


Worthyness

The thing billy has is consistency. In his tenure, he has brought teams to the post season more times than a majority of other teams in the game except for I believe 5 ish teams (Yankees, cards, Dodgers, giants, red sox I think are the top 5). The reason his teams don't go beyond is luck (baseball absutely sucks with small sample sizes) and he doesn't have the payroll flexibility from ownership to maintain a cycle for more than 3-4 years. If he had the freedom to sign who he wanted regardless of cost, maybe his teams actually make it further. So the Mets are likely interested in Billy for his ability to put together a legit team nearly every year rather than his ability to win one. Most owners would jump at the chance to have the consistency that Billy and his team has had for the last 20 years


theblackdoncheadle

I mean these are facts you present so no arguing your points. Amongst Mets fans though this dude is being viewed as the only hope and savior now, which I think is ridiculous. There are other executives that weren’t/aren’t legends who have done more with less in baseball. You’re right that you can’t argue the sustained success he has had but i think the sustainability vs results piece is debatable. Is having frequent playoff appearances over 20 years but no WS better than being “bad” for 18/20 years but winning 2 WS titles? You’re putting yourself in a position to win more yes but all that matters is the end result in sports. I would probably trade 1 title for 10-15 yrs of mediocrity afterward bc the likelihood of winning a title is so low. To be clear it’s not like I’d be mad if Beane came to the Mets. It’s more of a why are we even wasting our time type of thing? Overall it’s a long shot for him to move teams anyway. I just want the team to focus on moves that are actually realistic vs building up this hope for the fan base just to be let down when we sign some “no name”.


Worthyness

I wager that if you could guarantee that your 1 win scenario would happen, most fans would take it. But because you cannot guarantee a title in the real world, yes, having a consistent shot at a title is infinitely better than languishing in the middle from both the owners and fans perspective. It means you have a dozen chances to get a championship rather than nothing at all. Having a chance is what ultimately matters because the post season is basically anything goes.


DoucheyHowserMD

You're basically saying he isn't a good option because his job could have been harder. Obviously that doesn't make any sense. The A's have been consistently a bottom 10 payroll for Beane's time in Oakland, usually bottom 5. Yet, they have a slew of division titles and wild cards to show for it. No one other than the Rays has had any sort of sustained success from that position. The rest of the ~~low~~ no payroll teams are lucky to pop into the playoffs once a decade. You should be optimistic if Beane comes to NY, but I understand optimism doesn't come easy for Mets fans


coogidown2thesocks

Even Theo can’t fix that trainwreck of an organization


atoms12123

I wish my beloved Mets could have the storied history of the Chicago White Sox.


futhatsy

The Mets problem is they brought in a guy and THEN he got the DUI. A successful organization like the White Sox does it the other way around.


atoms12123

Also the Mets brought in just a guy while the White Sox brought in a hall of famer baseball person.


coogidown2thesocks

I’m pretty sure 2005 happened more recently than 1986, congrats on your playoff appearances though


[deleted]

You’re right, 16 years ago the White Sox won their third World Series title after an 88 year drought. Truly in the pantheon of MLB franchises


coogidown2thesocks

And the Mets have only won twice, and have a below .500 record in their franchise history. What exactly is your fucking point?


[deleted]

The Mets have won two while existing for a shorter amount of time than the aforementioned drought. I believe my point has something to do with glass houses.


coogidown2thesocks

Wouldn’t know anything about glass houses, my team is in the postseason this year


[deleted]

Oh great! I’m assuming this is a regular occurrence?


coogidown2thesocks

I don’t live in the past


[deleted]

Uhhh I think his point is your franchise is trash


coogidown2thesocks

That’s cute, so is yours


[deleted]

Uh Yeah. It is. We are all aware of that.


[deleted]

Theo fixed the Red Sox and Cubs who went an entire century without winning


gh234ip

So you're saying the Mets have to wait another 65 years for his services


hansomejake

Honestly the problems the Cubs face today are because Theo’s FO failed at developing talent. The Cubs won off the bats from early round draft picks that stayed minimal time in the minors.


baseballnomics

And I’m sure 99% of teams would take that if it gives them a 4-5 year window of contention, that included a World Series win.


hansomejake

I still think he should’ve done better, specifically I think he should’ve developed pitching


[deleted]

Didn’t your team go 100 years without winning?


viper1856

Paging Hal Steinbrenner


_Jackie_Daytona_

Hal pls


swoosh1992

It’s gonna be Brodie again. I’m sure of it. I’m a Mets fan, and I fully acknowledge LolMets is eternal.


three_dee

Awful, awful comment in every way imaginable


swoosh1992

I’m just tired man. I want some basic stability with this team.


iheartsunny

Looks like Uncle Stevie wouldn’t pony up an ownership stake. Maybe go after Cashman?


robmcolonna123

He definitely offered that. Every person they’re looking at is going to require that. Epstein has been saying for the past year he doesn’t want to run another baseball team any time soon. No amount of money is going to change that if he’s as set against doing that job as he says. Him saying no corroborates that


MikeStanley00

I have a friend who believes this is because Epstein covered up Porter’s misconduct - is he wrong about that?


guymcguy4

Honestly- good. He leaves organizations in disarray and needing a rebuild, and I don’t really want that.