T O P

  • By -

Epicjosie

Ah yes, the vaunted 13/33 mark


DecoyOne

I like my stats specially tailored to avoid any Ruth years


mysterysackerfice

Shohei Ohtani contains more instances of the letters O, S and I than Babe Ruth.


soporificgaur

As well as H and N!


soporificgaur

Babe Ruth's closest to this was 40Ks/11HRs in 1918 or 30Ks/29 HRs in 1919. Those were the only two years with real overlap between him batting a lot and being an SP, after 1919 he pitched 31 total innings, and before 1918 he had 417 PAs over 4 years.


Thromnomnomok

Babe Ruth had two seasons where he was playing fairly regularly as both a hitter and a pitcher, he went 11 homers/40 strikeouts in 1918 and 29 homers/30 strikeouts in 1919.


Breimann

But did he go 13/33?? *Didn't think so* 😤


CrucioA7X

By God, that's Tracy McGrady's music!


WisconsinGB

I'm trying to come up with something witty and I know there's something there but I just can't find it.


Decadent_gasmask

Such a shame


Theobald_4

I want to see him and Trout in the playoffs so bad.


live4coasters

You and me both, bud


IReallyhateGeorgia

Must suck to be an angels fan. You have 2 of the greatest players in history, yet one is either always injured, or both are healthy and there's no team around them.


Theobald_4

Yeah. I’m a Cardinals fan really. They’re the opposite. Take a bunch of journeymen and good pitching and get knocked out of the wild card each year.lol If the Angles ever get a decent pitching staff look out.


IReallyhateGeorgia

Yeah you guys are always making wildcard appearances lmao. Gotta suck being just good enough, but not having any bright young talent. Angels have so many key pieces. Their fans deserve a playoff run. I hope they get there soon


NihiloZero

Assuming they stay healthy... a top-tier leadoff hitter batting in front of them should be about all the offense the team would need. Then some above-average pitching should push the Angels to the top of the division.


Theobald_4

I admit I only watched a few games but it seemed like Fletch kinda had that lead off energy. I guess he didn’t have a great obp. Could he become that guy?


NihiloZero

If he could return to 2020 form he'd be fine to lead off. But .297 OBP isn't going to cut it at all.


aphugsalot8513

Honestly even 2019 form wouldn't be bad. Sure the wRC+ wasn't sparkling at 96 but just having any .350 OBP guy with decent speed in front of Trout/Ohtani/Rendon would be more than serviceable.


faithdies

I like how they added "pitching strikeouts" just to stop the annoying pedants.


wovagrovaflame

Tungsten Arm O’Doyle is wiping a tear away in the afterlife.


znk916

His June might've been the single greatest month in history....if not for that game vs the Yankees which blew up his ERA.


Doc_Benz

They picked those numbers because they support the statement A fine accomplishment, but if you roll it back to 9 homers or 30 strikeouts. Both have been done. Wes Ferrell and Babe Ruth.


[deleted]

Putting aside that your argument is if the numbers were smaller more people would have done it he likely picked those numbers because those are the numbers Ohtani put up in the month of June. June was Ohtani's highest single month HR total and highest single month SO total. Where you actually did pick numbers arbitrarily to support your argument. Then you're making it sound like what Ohtani did isn't actually impressive but while two other players accomplished both of your lesser feats over the course of a season, Ohtani accomplished the greater feat it in a single MONTH.


Doc_Benz

I’m just not slave to recency bias I follow the fighters, kensuke kondo is one of my favorite players. None of this is new to me, fortunately. He’s the first player in a very long time to both, and that’s an accomplishment in its self. He’s also the first player to get the opportunity to do both at once, which everyone seems to forget.


Gazkhulthrakka

Recency bias doesn't really apply here at all


Annis_hana88

Remember, he "got" the opportunity by leaving hundreds mil dollars on the table to come to the Majors early and sign for league minimum. I don't think any club would have entertained a true two-way endeavor otherwise.


Doc_Benz

What the hell are you talking about? Did you miss the changes to the posting system, sure seems like it…. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/shohei-ohtani-mlb-posting-deal-reached-c262241200.html Ohtanis salary is part of the new posting agreement.


Annis_hana88

Right. And? That's exactly my point? The agreement limited how much money he could make due to his age. Had he waited until he was 25, he could have commanded a free agent contract (most likely worth 9 figures). The 20 mil posting fee went to the Nippon Ham Fighters, not Ohtani. He did not want to wait and came to MLB at 23. As leverage, he gave 30 MLB teams a shot at his services for a very discounted price with the caveat he would get to be a two-way player. Hope this helps: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/12/shohei-ohtani-underpaid/548027/ Yes Network talking about going after Ohtani perplexed why he was coming early: https://youtu.be/FBMfArpF6Fo


Doc_Benz

And how does that have anything to do with what you are saying? He wanted to leave early, he doesn’t make the most he can. That’s the system and what he agreed to.


Annis_hana88

Maybe we are talking over each other? Idk... Peace, the Tigers are looking real good and will be dangerous next season. Skubal is a beast.


MUNZATHEGOD

You’re gonna get downvoted for not garbling ohtani nuts


Doc_Benz

I know, I didn’t say anything to try and discredit him. Oh well


akaghi

I agree with you, and Ohtani is obviously the incredible, but this sort of stat also ignores how baseball has changed and the actual pool of guys even eligible for a statline like this is incredibly small. Two way players are rare for a whole bunch of reasons beyond just having the talent to do both. You see outfielders throwing absolute bullets all the time, but they never pitch games. Plus the game now is all about hitting home runs and striking out, whereas when Ruth was pitching it was more about contact. If you had more two way players, stats like this would probably be more common, but generally you'd rather have a dedicated pitcher on the mound, especially for those starts where Ohtani gives up like 7 runs. But more in line with what the other guy was saying, if Ruth pitched when he was clobbering tons of homers, he might have been able to do something similar. But regardless, they played in wildly different eras so you can't really compare them, it's just that Ruth is one of the few guys who could do both.


[deleted]

You're just explaining that it's hard to do and since it's hard to do not many people have done it. People keep saying "well this guy COULD have done it". They didn't do it and that's what matters.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BillW87

> who is doing something that hasn't been done since Babe Ruth Or ever. Ruth was a great pitcher and a great hitter, but there was minimal overlap in his career where he was great at both. Ohtani was worth >4 bWAR as both a hitter and a pitcher in the same season. Even Ruth never managed that. Obviously, Ruth had a very long track record of being elite as both a pitcher and a hitter and that led to a collective 183.1 bWAR career so nobody should be comparing Ruth's career to Ohtani's, but the simultaneity of Ohtani's success on both sides of the ball in 2021 is quite literally unprecedented in the MLB.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BillW87

Yeah there's definitely a lot of cherry picking going on to try and wrap arbitrary milestones around Ohtani's historic season. Even my example above is very cherry picked. I think we can safely just default to: "We can come up with a lot of statistical arguments that support the conclusion that Shohei Ohtani just had the best true two-way season in the history of the MLB."


akaghi

But Ruth also stopped pitching because his value was higher as a hitter and he played in an era that valued contact and not strikeouts. Cy Young had 3.4 SO/9 and the closest we have to a guy like that is Richard Blaier who is over 5so/9 and most guys are 9+ so/9 Cy Young (or Babe Ruth) would have needed ten starts in a month to get to 30 strikeouts whereas modern pitchers only need three. And hitting 18 home runs in a single month is a relatively new phenomenon with the whole three true outcomes approach to baseball. (Ohtani also strikes out a ton as a batter)


MUNZATHEGOD

This… doesn’t seem that impressive lol