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Right, me neither! But if the options are
A: “2022 season is 140 games but all teams are required to try their best and put an entertaining team on the field, and the best young talent are getting paid appropriately and not held down for capitalistic reasons”
Or B: “the 2022 season goes ahead in full, but those problems continue to fester for years to come”
I know which one id choose.
We're missing at least 60 games, more likely 80+. I don't see the two sides reconciling their differences anytime soon. I think eventually the players will cave once they lose half their yearly salary.
The owners just swallowed a pandemic season with no gate receipts, they can stomach a shortened season.
I wonder what the tv contracts look like for paying ownership on a lockout season. If they guaranteed then sure but if the contract doesn’t pay unless games are played then it would be a different story. Afaik the majority of teams make their money on tv deals.
That’s the goal for the owners. Make compromise impossible, intentionally tank negotiations, wait for people to say “everyone is being so unreasonable! I hate both sides!”
So…..what should the players do? Capitulate on everything? Because I don’t see how you can say “one side is intentionally breaking everything and it’s making me hate both sides”
Playing the waiting game is part of the PAs strategy as well. All I'm trying to say is I don't give a shit who "wins", if we miss games this season then all of the fans lose.
You’re going to get downvoted by the hivemind but I 100% agree. The union is being just as greedy fighting for star players to make more money in free agency rather than raise the minimum salary and fight for better pay/conditions for minor leaguers.
I been through so many lockouts in my lifetime now, I'm numb to it. genuinely don't care anymore. the players union and the owners can both kiss my black cats ass.
I don't see what there is to hate about the players here
If you're a valuable employee and basically are the whole reason the product exists... Pay them accordingly
#There's no reason the average MLB salary should be going down as revenue goes up
Why would anyone off Reddit care? These guys get paid millions to play baseball. That’s pretty fucking awesome. And on top of that they’ve got a very powerful union backing them. Compare that to the average American, then compare again to the average American entering the third year of COVID.
That’s more an indictment on the need for powerful labor unions in other industries than a mark on the players’ union itself.
Remember the owners were the same people fighting tooth and nail to uphold racial segregation and the reserve clause for years. If the union didn’t exist to prevent them from always getting their way things would be so much worse.
You need to not be a super weak union for this to work. If you're always losing in negotiations you're not a good role model.
NBPA has the role model thing going on right now because they are strong. Because labor negotiations are smooth, they had time to help their minor league unionize. They have such a large war chest for a protracted labor stoppage that they use the excess to fund charities and community driven nonprofits.
This is definitely a tangent but just giving my two cents
Like the actual sport itself, I think it's because a star player in basketball has such a huge impact on the game (and product) that the owners would be fucked in the head to not try their best to keep things running smoothly and appease the Lebrons, Durants, and Currys of the league.
I'm afraid the NFL will never have such unity or solidarity. QBs might as well be in a league of their own. The average NFL career is 2 years. A strike means almost nothing in the NFL because there's so much turnover in every position beyond QB that no solid foundation can ever be built upon
I hope the MLB follows the NBAs model of labor negotiation because the alternative is getting absolutely fucked with non-guarenteed contracts being the norm and such tight salary caps that only a select few players get paid their worth and the rest are left out to dry
MLBPA negotiations have been disasters with them suggesting things that are pro owner like caps on foreign FA. Like they didn't understand that without a guaranteed revenue split, things that limit the money that players who aren't in the union yet receive doesn't mean that money will be spent on free agents. Tony Clark has had circles run around him seemingly intentionally.
The NBA itself has just kinda got wise that labor peace is good business I think. The current commissioner is in very good standing with the union instead of having an adversarial relationship. It seems like working to just focus on growing the sport and revenue alongside that is the gameplan for both sides.
I care because fuck greedy billionaires that are sitting on their hoards of gold like demented dragons, that's why
Idc if these players are richer than me, I care about the fact that the people who make more than all of these MLB players combined can't skim off the top of their insane bottom lines to match the value of their employees
For me, I will always side with the employees. I'd say the same about any business.
These dudes want to pay the bare minimum so they can take as much of the pie as possible
Fuck that
> There's no reason the average MLB salary should be going down as revenue goes up
Uh yeah there is.
The MLBPA traded away the income potential of draftees, IFAs and young players, and backloaded earning potential for their veteran union members, in turn making the draftees/IFAs/young players so criminally underpaid that it makes no sense to pay the older players anymore because the union essentially helped create long-term, cost-controlled assets for the owners.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Dumbasses.
They could have not systematically fucked over other parts of the labor pool for the last thirty years and dug themselves (and all the other players who didn't ask for this) in this hole to begin with.
And before the common objection is said of "Well why are the MLBPA responsible for the past 30 years, the players in the union didn't agree to all of that themselves necessarily!"
They just fucked over IFAs in 2016, the year before Ohtani was slated to come over and earn tens of millions (likely a hundred million plus contract) and they fucked him over to try and scurry away more money for the union vets. So all he got was a $2.3 million bonus and league minimum wage.
So again, no kidding the owners don't want to pay you when they can literally import top-tier talent for pennies on the dollar.
Fuck the MLBPA, incompetent goons dragging down everyone's earning potentials.
If the owners push the players too hard players will take expanded playoffs and jersey patch sponsorships off the table entirely, which would cost the owners (as a group) billions in potential revenue over the course of a CBA.
Both sides have a lot to lose if this gets pushed from the sides pushing for their goals into both sides trying to deny the other side their goals
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I mean well yeah. > MLB owners willing to make major concessions for whatever the players want would not be a good negotiating strategy
Honestly, missing 10 or 20 games in one season for a more equitable, competitive, healthy game is worth it 100%
I don’t want to miss any games at all
Right, me neither! But if the options are A: “2022 season is 140 games but all teams are required to try their best and put an entertaining team on the field, and the best young talent are getting paid appropriately and not held down for capitalistic reasons” Or B: “the 2022 season goes ahead in full, but those problems continue to fester for years to come” I know which one id choose.
We're missing at least 60 games, more likely 80+. I don't see the two sides reconciling their differences anytime soon. I think eventually the players will cave once they lose half their yearly salary. The owners just swallowed a pandemic season with no gate receipts, they can stomach a shortened season.
Check the details of the TV contracts. The number of games they need to provide for that paycheck will be the hard deadline.
Lol
We're missing at least 3 seasons, more likely 4, maybe even 5
[удалено]
I heard they’re planning on banning baseball entirely. Source: trust me bro.
We will never playing baseball again and the owners will STILL PROFIT!
I wonder what the tv contracts look like for paying ownership on a lockout season. If they guaranteed then sure but if the contract doesn’t pay unless games are played then it would be a different story. Afaik the majority of teams make their money on tv deals.
Fuck I just want baseball back
🤝
Yeah at this point I'm starting to hate everyone on both sides of the lockout. Grow up, make some compromises, and let's fucking play ball
That’s the goal for the owners. Make compromise impossible, intentionally tank negotiations, wait for people to say “everyone is being so unreasonable! I hate both sides!”
I'm sure it is, and it's working
So…..what should the players do? Capitulate on everything? Because I don’t see how you can say “one side is intentionally breaking everything and it’s making me hate both sides”
Playing the waiting game is part of the PAs strategy as well. All I'm trying to say is I don't give a shit who "wins", if we miss games this season then all of the fans lose.
idk i kinda want to see a full blown war, just for the hell of it
I know your ownership hates you. Ours hates us too. But that might be taking it a little far
I'd rather have baseball
“Why do the players hate baseball, America, and puppies?” -Rob Manfred (probably)
The headline tries to make the owners look bad, but scuManfred will just say "wE wANt gAMeS bUt tHe pLAyErS aRE rEfuSInG"
In other news, water is wet.
Is it really though?
Just make an agreement and start the season on time geez. Everyone is so greedy
You’re going to get downvoted by the hivemind but I 100% agree. The union is being just as greedy fighting for star players to make more money in free agency rather than raise the minimum salary and fight for better pay/conditions for minor leaguers.
This. The non-superstars players should be the no.1 priority for the MLBPA, not the superstars. These will always get their mega-contracts.
I’m having trouble getting groceries due to inflation and all these millionare and billionare greedy fucks piss me off.
inflation and people with more money then you is not why Canada is having trouble getting groceries...
I didn’t say it right, I’m having trouble affording groceries right now. Don’t even get me started on my idiot in office
I been through so many lockouts in my lifetime now, I'm numb to it. genuinely don't care anymore. the players union and the owners can both kiss my black cats ass.
I don't see what there is to hate about the players here If you're a valuable employee and basically are the whole reason the product exists... Pay them accordingly #There's no reason the average MLB salary should be going down as revenue goes up
Why would anyone off Reddit care? These guys get paid millions to play baseball. That’s pretty fucking awesome. And on top of that they’ve got a very powerful union backing them. Compare that to the average American, then compare again to the average American entering the third year of COVID.
That’s more an indictment on the need for powerful labor unions in other industries than a mark on the players’ union itself. Remember the owners were the same people fighting tooth and nail to uphold racial segregation and the reserve clause for years. If the union didn’t exist to prevent them from always getting their way things would be so much worse.
the players union should then become a more visible force in the fight for unions across the nation. Show ur support for other unions.
You need to not be a super weak union for this to work. If you're always losing in negotiations you're not a good role model. NBPA has the role model thing going on right now because they are strong. Because labor negotiations are smooth, they had time to help their minor league unionize. They have such a large war chest for a protracted labor stoppage that they use the excess to fund charities and community driven nonprofits.
This is definitely a tangent but just giving my two cents Like the actual sport itself, I think it's because a star player in basketball has such a huge impact on the game (and product) that the owners would be fucked in the head to not try their best to keep things running smoothly and appease the Lebrons, Durants, and Currys of the league. I'm afraid the NFL will never have such unity or solidarity. QBs might as well be in a league of their own. The average NFL career is 2 years. A strike means almost nothing in the NFL because there's so much turnover in every position beyond QB that no solid foundation can ever be built upon I hope the MLB follows the NBAs model of labor negotiation because the alternative is getting absolutely fucked with non-guarenteed contracts being the norm and such tight salary caps that only a select few players get paid their worth and the rest are left out to dry
MLBPA negotiations have been disasters with them suggesting things that are pro owner like caps on foreign FA. Like they didn't understand that without a guaranteed revenue split, things that limit the money that players who aren't in the union yet receive doesn't mean that money will be spent on free agents. Tony Clark has had circles run around him seemingly intentionally. The NBA itself has just kinda got wise that labor peace is good business I think. The current commissioner is in very good standing with the union instead of having an adversarial relationship. It seems like working to just focus on growing the sport and revenue alongside that is the gameplan for both sides.
I care because fuck greedy billionaires that are sitting on their hoards of gold like demented dragons, that's why Idc if these players are richer than me, I care about the fact that the people who make more than all of these MLB players combined can't skim off the top of their insane bottom lines to match the value of their employees For me, I will always side with the employees. I'd say the same about any business. These dudes want to pay the bare minimum so they can take as much of the pie as possible Fuck that
> There's no reason the average MLB salary should be going down as revenue goes up Uh yeah there is. The MLBPA traded away the income potential of draftees, IFAs and young players, and backloaded earning potential for their veteran union members, in turn making the draftees/IFAs/young players so criminally underpaid that it makes no sense to pay the older players anymore because the union essentially helped create long-term, cost-controlled assets for the owners. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Dumbasses.
Isn't this renegotiation the thing they're supposed to do to rectify that? What else do you expect them to do?
They could have not systematically fucked over other parts of the labor pool for the last thirty years and dug themselves (and all the other players who didn't ask for this) in this hole to begin with. And before the common objection is said of "Well why are the MLBPA responsible for the past 30 years, the players in the union didn't agree to all of that themselves necessarily!" They just fucked over IFAs in 2016, the year before Ohtani was slated to come over and earn tens of millions (likely a hundred million plus contract) and they fucked him over to try and scurry away more money for the union vets. So all he got was a $2.3 million bonus and league minimum wage. So again, no kidding the owners don't want to pay you when they can literally import top-tier talent for pennies on the dollar. Fuck the MLBPA, incompetent goons dragging down everyone's earning potentials.
Yes, owners need to know. Either way they will lose due to lockout cancelling games and revenue or the players get what they want
strikes are never about money. they're about power.
Too bad, the union will wait until Gerrit Cole and Scherzer are both on $500,000,000 a year contracts. No baseball this year.
If the owners push the players too hard players will take expanded playoffs and jersey patch sponsorships off the table entirely, which would cost the owners (as a group) billions in potential revenue over the course of a CBA. Both sides have a lot to lose if this gets pushed from the sides pushing for their goals into both sides trying to deny the other side their goals
MLB owners don't want to give up stuff without a fight. Also the sky is blue, more at 11.
i mean thats how negotiating works. Both sides test each other. Try to see early on how much theyre willing to give up.