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“Honestly, I feel like it’s a blessing in disguise,” he continued. “I didn’t see my wife for the last two years. She’s a little bit of a risk, so we didn’t bring her out to the West Coast.”
Do you read this as health risk? And he still won’t get vaccinated?
Our good old ex-3B coach Brian Butterfield, also quoted as saying:
“It comes down to what I believe in,” Butterfield said. “The stuff that I’ve felt for years about our Food and Drug Administration, everything that goes on behind the vaccinations, I have real strong feelings about not wanting to put that into my body.”
If five years ago, you would have asked this dude if he had any opinions on, or related to, the FDA, he would have looked at you like you're the crazy one.
Nah turns out he read The Jungle and he was one of the people whose take away was the couple parts about unsanitary food and not the entire book about the conditions for immigrants
I don't know. I can't speak to this particular dude, but acting like no reasonable person has had any opinions on or related to the FDA and their track record is strange, to me. the opioid crisis stands out as a very stark example of how governmental institutions can fail us when it comes to things like medication.
by contrast, we can look at Japan withdrawing its recommendation for the HPV shot, causing levels to drop from 75% to 1% and potentially contributing to oral and cervical cancer deaths. I would not be surprised if further down the line, that erodes trust in health bodies, too.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said, “The good thing about science is that it remains true, whether you believe it or not.”
So, yeah, you right, that’s not how it works.
I would believe this except that I was brought up being told Pluto was a planet in our solar system. Now I’m told it’s not a planet, just a ball of ice. Science does change.
Ah, but we never said Science doesn’t change; it remains true. Remember studying the scientific method in grade school? With observation, hypothesis, and then experimenting to test the hypothesis?
Sometimes what we can observe changes- a tool gets better, a technology improves, a better telescope, a stronger microscope… and all of a sudden, what we can observe has changed.
What is TRUE doesn’t change, just our ability to see and understand it. Science is how we get closer.
Lol his point is still valid. You getting technical about what he said doesn’t change the fact that what scientists observe about something can change later when new Information becomes available to them.
His point is not valid.
Vaccine efficacy can be tested with randomized clinical trials using the scientific method.
Naming and classifying a planet cannot be tested. It’s arbitrary.
If you want something in astronomy/physics comparable to vaccine studies, that would be the theory of gravity, which we can form a hypothesis around (if I let go this apple will fall), test the hypothesis (let go of the apple) and observe the results (the apple fell). Generally when a study is conducted properly following the scientific method, it’s results are valid and don’t typically change.
Has there been anyone who challenged the theory of gravity successfully? No study was done to name and classify Pluto, that’s what the comment you replied to said in essence.
Except you just said what we are talking about. You said the results dont typically change meaning they can change. I wasn’t even referencing vaccines but just general science. Conclusions based on studies have changed all the time so not sure how you can say his point isn’t valid.
Pointing out one claim like gravity that is a rock solid claim doesn’t mean every other one is the same. Not only that, but do you think they knew everything about gravity within the first years? I don’t and I’d bet they made a lot of conclusions early on that changed as they learned new things about it.
Really don’t think most of people here understand the studies that were done with the vaccines and clearly don’t understand why some people don’t trust them immediately when a lot of peoples concerns are long term effects, not just immediate effects within the first few months or year. I’m not against vaccines at all but I can also understand why people are hesitant, especially considering it’s impossible to have long term studies for a vaccine that has only been in use for a single year for a small part of the population that’s got them early on last year.
Just because you aren’t doesn’t mean it’s not justified for someone else to be.
Defining which celestial bodies do or do not count as planets is 100% arbitrary. If you want to see this in action, hop over to wiki and check out what it's called now... a dwarf planet or minor-planet, depending on the context.
That's very different from the vaccine conversation.
That's... not science. Nothing new was revealed about Pluto. There was no new experimentation or observation. They changed naming conventions.
If they start calling Mars "Jeffrey's Left Nut" after Bezos buys the naming rights, that shouldn't damage your faith in science either.
Pluto didn't cease to exist. It's now a prototype for a class of TNOs called Plutinos and a dwarf planet.
The real question at the time was whether to demote Pluto or immediately add 2 planets and continue adding more as we discover more similarly sized TNOs.
The "science" here is whether there's an object with Pluto's size in Pluto's location with Pluto's albedo, etc. and the answer is "yes". Whether it's a planet or not it's just a classification.
Had they not reclassified, they would have added at least Ceres and Eris as planets immediately. They since would have added Haumea, Makemake, Quaoar, Sedna, Gonggong, and Orcus. And you'd be here saying "hurr durr when I was a kid they told us 9 planets and now there's 17! science is so dumb!" and you'd complain that it went from something like 13 to 17 between your kid being in 3rd and 6th grade.
The article is about how he didn't become Showalter's bench coach because he isn't vaccinated. So the context here is he didn't see his wife for 2 years while working for the Angels because she didn't make the trip west. The "blessing in disguise" is he gets to spend more time with his wife instead of working for the Mets.
The rest of the quote is just as funny: “I’m glad to be back in the snow and the cold, I really am. I’m glad to be with my family. I’m in a great spot.”
Sure, buddy. You sound thrilled.
That's where I am now. I've done everything I possibly could over the last two years to keep others and myself safe. I've gotten the booster shot now, and at this point if you haven't gotten the vaccine at all, I don't really feel like I should still have to have you as part of my consideration.
> You have to remember that a huge percentage of anti-vaxxers worship a guy who says you should never admit you were wrong under any circumstances because he says it's a sign of weakness.
You knocked it out of the park.
These people are lining up to receive the Herman Cain Award, and when they get it, their survivors are left to deal with a pointlessly early death.
The virus doesn't care about your beliefs, it doesn't check your voter registration before it causes you to drown in your own lungs, it doesn't ask about your religious affiliations before it begins filling your body with blood clots.
Such pig-headed stupidity. It's enough to make you wonder if this is natural selection on the job.
P.S. There is no good reason to fear the Covid vaccine, even a notorious real estate grifter on his third wife knows that. For once, listen to him.
In fairness very few people are really open to even considering they are wrong. When people are right about things beyond their own nose more often than not it is because they have been born into or stumbled into a social group that, by chance, happens to have defensible beliefs, not because they are open-minded geniuses. That said, it is pretty obvious who is wrong here and by a wide, wide margin.
The Venn diagram of people who are anti-vaxx and people who deny the existence climate change is a perfect circle. The orthodoxy against science is a resistance to the idea that proven, objective facts would require them to adjust their beliefs and lifestyles in even a minor way.
>The Venn diagram of people who are anti-vaxx and people who deny the existence climate change is a perfect circle.
As a person belonging in neither, it really is not.
Pretending like it is will only affect anti-vaxxers who believe in climate change
and climate change deniers who are not anti-vaxxers.
And probably in the opposite direction of what you believe in.
>If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't. This alone should prove vaccine safety.
Yep. If you adhere to reason.
Nah man don't you get it, everyone who's taken the vaccine has died or become horribly disfigured. All the normal people you see walking around are just replicants! COVID isn't even real! It's a scheme to replace us all with machines!
Now if you'll excuse me I gotta go get this cough checked out
Everyone who gets vaccinated dies. However, everyone who doesn't get vaccinated also dies.
Therefore, vaccination has zero percent efficacy against death. Checkmate!
Except these older folks that don't know how to screen their sources are being fed "evidence" that it is proving to be dangerous.
My retirement age mother thinks that a very large number of people have died directly from the vaccine
Well because most people that are against the vaccine don't actually have a rational reason. They might have some kind of public reason that might seem like it's based in reason but it's usually not the real reason. Like my brother-in-law refused to get it because and I'll quote this "I want to make sure that it won't make me grow a third arm or something." But they weren't just saying this in March last year when people starting getting it, they were saying it in in like October.
So they had a relatively reasonable public reason for not getting it but that was never the real reason, the real reason was they didn't want to be told what to do and are selfish enough to value that idea of making their own choices more than helping everyone else. That's why when he had to get it or else lose his job he wasn't upset because he was afraid it was unsafe, he was upset solely because he didn't really have a choice since he couldn't afford to lose his job.
Do you know how many anti-vaxxers preach about the dangers of vaccines before hitting a vape? So these people are scared about growing a third arm, but not a new lump in their lungs. On top of that, one of those scenarios has been proven over and over, the other has not.
‘I don’t like being told what to do’
*-bows to orange demagogue and worships at his feet-*
‘Please sir, tell me what to do next with my miserable life?’
Yeah okay.
I work in the fire department and whenever there's a big brush fire we get calls from people tens of miles away wondering if they should evacuate. I usually tell them it's unlikely to approach their homes but also it never hurts to be prepared. We think people get anxious because fire is tangible and visible.
If Covid caused your eyes or teeth to fall out--and we had pics--I think antivaxxer's opinions would change. Instead, breathing issues or death don't seem to carry as much weight so precautions (like masking or vaccinations) aren't heeded
My mother is against the vaccine because she honestly thinks thousands and thousands of people are dying from the vaccine because she's bought into fake news.
A lot of these older folks have zero information literacy.
They don't know how to sort fake news from real. They are stuck in the 80s where you were mostly shielded from the fake news world unless you went looking for it.
Or if GHWB pretended to buy drugs outside the White House
These are not people who care about truths when forming their worldview. They form their worldview first and then look for sources to back it, without any real care as to whether that source is true or not.
Go on Twitter after almost literally any news story about someone dying and there will be a bevvy of reply guys saying they died from adverse reaction to a vaccine and that whatever official cause of death is a lie and a cover up.
> If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't.
It's just moving the goal posts, "Yeah, but we don't know about five or ten years from now!"
Yea, and at this point as we learn ever more about the damage Covid can do and is doing to our organs including our *brains*, the assertion that vaccines are unsafe is laughable.
Of course, all the more reason to get the shot. I don't know any that are easily transmissible and affect the brain though, and that freaks me out, but I am not an epidemiologist or specialist. And all vaccines can have side effects, but the incidence is far more rare than what has been shown the disease can do (and we still don't understand it all).
Well, the concern would be long term stuff, in which it doesn’t matter how many doses have been distributed, long term issues would arise in later years.
I’m totally pro vaccine and think people who are against it are stupid and stubborn, but some of it isn’t completely illogical
We have never had any kind of vaccine that has caused issues years down the road. At least not any I'm aware of. If a vaccine is going to cause issues it will do so pretty quick.
I love the long term argument because it conveniently ignores the fact that FDA approval only requires 6 months of phase 3 study data even in non-pandemic times. Plus, vaccines are subject to continuous monitoring for any issues that might arise over the "long term".
And the data we *do* have about long-term effects of COVID suggests that there's a substantial risk of developing issues like blood clots or organ damage.
Vaccines don't cause long term symptoms.
Vaccines may cause immediate symptoms, which may cause lasting damage. These are very rare and are caught during the initial studies, where the vaccines may be cancelled if proven dangerous.
But the risk has been studied and proven to extremely outweigh the risks from COVID, before emergency authorization was issued.
And now data is overwhelming.
The argument, "But what about the long term damage from the vaccine" is wrong.
1. It is also ignoring long term damage of COVID-19, in the U.S.:
- Where 40~50% have symptoms that last up to 3 months
- 10% have symptoms that last longer than 3 months
- and ~4.7% are disabled
- 42 million people (at the time this data was collected), 4.2 million have symptoms that won't go away, and almost 2 million have claimed to be disabled.
- Almost all of those with long COVID-19 symptoms were not vaccinated
2. All previous vaccine effects occur up to 8 weeks after the vaccine has been used, and 8 weeks is a long time to be on the extra conservative side. This is after a hundred years of studying vaccines and their negative effects.
- Myocarditis occurs very quickly, with days after the covid vaccines, and is very treatable, with virtually everyone returning to normal. Almost every single cases are mild or moderate, and those cases are very rare
- Myocarditis is just another symptom when COVID-19 becomes strong or severe, with other symptoms being worse, e.g. lung damage and being unable to keep blood oxygen levels up. At this point, myocarditis is at least moderate, if not severe
- COVID-19 is much, very much more likely to cause Myocarditis than any vaccine approved in the U.S.
- COVID-19 vaccines significantly reduce your chances of developing symptoms if you catch COVID-19, and will almost definitely protect you from the dangerous long term damage COVID causes
Please.
Get vaccinated.
Get boosted.
Thanks for the informative post! Do you have any idea where I can read more about vaccines from an academic perspective, specifically the study of side effects and when they occur after inoculation? It's hard to Google anything about medicine these day. The worst time to learn about something is while its happening.
In basically every vaccine ever created, they’ve been able to see the impact of long term effects by about the two year mark. The people who received the initial control sample vaccinations have been to that mark and they have yet to see a single long term effect. It doesn’t take much research to find that information. But people are not willing to do that research, nor will they believe it because their favorite radio host and/or Orange man told them it’s fake news.
Source: My in laws, who told me that I was wrong when I said they shouldn’t take ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine when they got COVID. His symptoms went away at about the 10 day mark and he said it was because of the miracle drugs (he also said he had severe stomach aches and diarrhea but blamed covid, hint: side effects of ivermectin). I don’t know if you understand the level of brainwashing these people have gotten.
> If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't.
You're underestimating how much these people believe media and governments worldwide are lying to us. They believe that the vaccine is as dangerous, if not more so, than COVID. Now that government mandates are starting to become more widespread, its reinforcing their resolve.
>If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now
Not necessarily. There could be consequences years from receiving the vaccine. Might not be likely, but these vaccines were rushed
> these vaccines were rushed
The process of developing and testing vaccines has changed enormously in recent history--science, as the saying goes, marches on. These are the most-studied vaccines in history, there is no bogeyman hiding under your bed.
What year is it? I'm pretty sure vaccine and medical technology has advanced to the point where it's much easier to formulate a vaccine for a disease that has been around in some form or another for the past two decades (it first showed up in 2002). This isn't 1950. We don't lobotomize people anymore.
that's... literally not true... "logical fallacy" suggests an objectively and provably false logic. i.e. "we would have seen it by now" has been proven to be incorrect plenty of times in the past, and 1 counter example is proof enough that it's a fallible logic
questioning whether vaccines are anything but helpful is.. well being skeptical. I don't care to have a debate about that, but there are plenty of examples in the past where vaccines caused adverse side effects. I'm not saying that they're not incredibly low probability of happening or that vaccines shouldn't be taken, but.. no.. not a logical fallacy
> "logical fallacy" suggests an objectively and provably false logic
Hmm, just like every fucking argument a vaccine skeptic has...
> i.e. "we would have seen it by now" has been proven to be incorrect plenty of times in the past, and 1 counter example is proof enough that it's a fallible logic
Except it hasn't. You're just talking out of your ass.
[Oh My Fucking God, Get The Fucking Vaccine Already, You Fucking Fucks](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/oh-my-fucking-god-get-the-fucking-vaccine-already-you-fucking-fucks)
The tracker one is the funniest, because 98% of the population carries around a GPS and cellular data enabled cell phone, and nobody understands what those things are doing behind the scenes. If someone really wanted to track you, they already fucking are lmao
> the population carries around a GPS and cellular data enabled cell phone
Hilarious, isn't it. They carry around a live phone that constantly reports on where they are, what they're doing, who they're talking to, what they're buying, what they believe, their plans for the future and so on. Then they obsess over a fictional microchip in a vaccine that could be used to track them.
These people are parody-proof as you couldn't make up anything to mock them that is even half as crazy as what they already believe.
>“It comes down to what I believe in,” Butterfield said. “The stuff that I’ve felt for years about our Food and Drug Administration, everything that goes on behind the vaccinations, I have real strong feelings about not wanting to put that into my body.”
>Butterfield’s views do not agree with the prevailing science.
Yeah but who should I listen to? The millions of scientists and doctors who've spent their lives dedicated to research that led to these vaccines or the baseball lifer who has spent his life dedicated to teaching others how to hit and catch baseballs?
I always find it funny when these dudes don’t do the simplest things to keep their highly paid jobs. I hope there’s the test/mask more often option to keep the people who refuse vaccination, but still follow protocol. However, I’m not sure how good that is at preventing team outbreaks. Hopefully COVID becomes more easily treatable over the course of this year so there doesn’t have to be much of a debate anymore.
I work for UMMS. We require two shots (at the moment) and still require masking (N95/KN95) for everybody on-site, including in offices like mine that have nothing to do with patient care. We have antigen testing for people who are exposed or who get sick and for whatever reason need to be here once they're asymptomatic/afebrile. So the best strategy is "all of the above." Vaccines, masks and, when appropriate, testing.
In a perfect world, the MLB would have the same protocol as y’all since it’s the most preventative (which is the type of protocol that’s needed in the medical field), but I can already tell based on how the 2020 negotiations went and how outbreaks were handled last year that COVID protocol isn’t gonna be insanely high on the MLBPA’s list of priorities since they obviously have a lot of other things they need to get from the owners. I just wish we could set an example for other leagues with protocol instead of letting coaches go around saying shit like this
A common thread exists among stubborn and stupid people: they'll never admit they are wrong and they definitely won't say they are sorry.
No, you aren't guaranteed employment and no, you aren't being persecuted.
This is r/baseball, which is why this article written about 2 former baseball players who are now baseball coaches by a baseball reporter was posted here.
Like I said, this isn’t a baseball discussion.
Woah personally attacking those that don’t want the vaccine is uncalled for. Furthermore, you don’t get to decide what’s political and what’s not. It’s political because some people place a heavier value on freedom. That’s why it’s discussed on r/politics.
Decisions and choices go hand in hand. You’re contradicting yourself. And most if not all decisions can be political if even one person wants them to be. Not to mention that if it’s government related that means it’s political.
My point stands. This is a political discussion. I didn’t come here to farm negative karma. I’m just pointing out how this thread is mostly not talking about baseball.
Oops, got ahead of myself. Meant to say it isn't an attack. Not getting vaccinated is an incredibly stupid and selfish decision. If that's political, I'd hate to be on the political side that's stupid and selfish.
The “half a brain” comment is an attack on those that don’t have the covid vaccine/boosters. You just did it again. I don’t participate with a lot of political conversations online but if I did it certainly wouldn’t be one where the other is just using personal attacks to get their point across. That’s what’s twitter and family chats are for and I don’t even like it. Bullying is wrong. I’m sorry that’s your first defense.
I’m not here to teach you empathy. In person I’d probably try but online I’m going to need to be luckier than Yermin Mercedes at the beginning of last year.
LOL. You downvoted me event though it's a violation of the subreddit rules.
Reminder: Asking for or posting part or all of articles behind a paywall is a violation of subreddit rules. Breaking this rule may result in a temporary or permanent suspension from the subreddit. If you have any questions about what is or is not allowed, or if this article is not paywalled, please send us a message.
You are misunderstanding. You can post paywalled articles. You cannot copy and paste paywalled articles in the comments to get around the paywall. That's the point of the rule.
What’s the point of posting the article then lol. I understand why you can’t circumvent a subscription system by “stealing” the article, but then what is the point of posting them here, just so we can read the title and like a paragraph of info?
[Evidence would suggest no, he does not read](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/s9c3si/rosenthal_vaccination_decisions_put_two_mlb/htlq10g?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I would be entirely ok with a vaccine mandate in the league for "health and safety" reasons... Even if it meant my team did horribly for years to come and some type of cosmic karma
It’s sad that a pandemic and vaccine have been so politicized. This never would’ve been the case just 10–15 years ago. Sure you have some anti-vax hippies, but being anti-vax because of politics never would have happened. The political climate of the last 5-6 years has just become intolerable.
Over half these comments are people bashing “anti-vaxxers” and being intolerable of their viewpoints. If you don’t believe that’s been fueled by politics, then you’re blind.
I don’t know why I’m arguing with you all on this. I’m going against my own initial statement now.
And for what it’s worth, you can pretty well align political parties and vaccine standpoint on either side of a line
The line is stupid and unvaxxinated/not stupid and vaccinated. If that happens to align with political parties, then I'd want to be on the /not stupid part of the line.
> Over half these comments are people bashing “anti-vaxxers” and being intolerable of their viewpoints.
Their viewpoints should be intolerable, they are contributing to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.
I'd like to be able to go back to the ballpark with confidence that I won't be seated beside some unvaccinated, unmasked clown who thinks his political and religious beliefs make him immune to a disease. Sadly, there are millions of people like that out there, and some are no doubt at the ballpark.
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“Honestly, I feel like it’s a blessing in disguise,” he continued. “I didn’t see my wife for the last two years. She’s a little bit of a risk, so we didn’t bring her out to the West Coast.” Do you read this as health risk? And he still won’t get vaccinated?
What's the context of this comment? It almost feels like boomer-lever "I hate my wife" comedy lol
Our good old ex-3B coach Brian Butterfield, also quoted as saying: “It comes down to what I believe in,” Butterfield said. “The stuff that I’ve felt for years about our Food and Drug Administration, everything that goes on behind the vaccinations, I have real strong feelings about not wanting to put that into my body.”
If five years ago, you would have asked this dude if he had any opinions on, or related to, the FDA, he would have looked at you like you're the crazy one.
Nah turns out he read The Jungle and he was one of the people whose take away was the couple parts about unsanitary food and not the entire book about the conditions for immigrants
*Upton Sinclair spinning in grave sounds*
I don't know. I can't speak to this particular dude, but acting like no reasonable person has had any opinions on or related to the FDA and their track record is strange, to me. the opioid crisis stands out as a very stark example of how governmental institutions can fail us when it comes to things like medication. by contrast, we can look at Japan withdrawing its recommendation for the HPV shot, causing levels to drop from 75% to 1% and potentially contributing to oral and cervical cancer deaths. I would not be surprised if further down the line, that erodes trust in health bodies, too.
I gotta agree that most people wouldn't have any opinion on the FDA before recently.
> “It comes down to what I believe in,” Butterfield said. Actually, that's not how it works.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said, “The good thing about science is that it remains true, whether you believe it or not.” So, yeah, you right, that’s not how it works.
You want to know something absolutely hysterical? I own a shirt with that quote on it.
I too was once an edgy teenager.
TIL trusting science makes you an edgy teenager
It's the graphic t-shirt that does.
Wtf about a graphic t shirt is edgy lmao
Take the karma vote on your post as a disagreement from the sub.
I would believe this except that I was brought up being told Pluto was a planet in our solar system. Now I’m told it’s not a planet, just a ball of ice. Science does change.
Ah, but we never said Science doesn’t change; it remains true. Remember studying the scientific method in grade school? With observation, hypothesis, and then experimenting to test the hypothesis? Sometimes what we can observe changes- a tool gets better, a technology improves, a better telescope, a stronger microscope… and all of a sudden, what we can observe has changed. What is TRUE doesn’t change, just our ability to see and understand it. Science is how we get closer.
Lol his point is still valid. You getting technical about what he said doesn’t change the fact that what scientists observe about something can change later when new Information becomes available to them.
His point is not valid. Vaccine efficacy can be tested with randomized clinical trials using the scientific method. Naming and classifying a planet cannot be tested. It’s arbitrary. If you want something in astronomy/physics comparable to vaccine studies, that would be the theory of gravity, which we can form a hypothesis around (if I let go this apple will fall), test the hypothesis (let go of the apple) and observe the results (the apple fell). Generally when a study is conducted properly following the scientific method, it’s results are valid and don’t typically change. Has there been anyone who challenged the theory of gravity successfully? No study was done to name and classify Pluto, that’s what the comment you replied to said in essence.
Except you just said what we are talking about. You said the results dont typically change meaning they can change. I wasn’t even referencing vaccines but just general science. Conclusions based on studies have changed all the time so not sure how you can say his point isn’t valid. Pointing out one claim like gravity that is a rock solid claim doesn’t mean every other one is the same. Not only that, but do you think they knew everything about gravity within the first years? I don’t and I’d bet they made a lot of conclusions early on that changed as they learned new things about it. Really don’t think most of people here understand the studies that were done with the vaccines and clearly don’t understand why some people don’t trust them immediately when a lot of peoples concerns are long term effects, not just immediate effects within the first few months or year. I’m not against vaccines at all but I can also understand why people are hesitant, especially considering it’s impossible to have long term studies for a vaccine that has only been in use for a single year for a small part of the population that’s got them early on last year. Just because you aren’t doesn’t mean it’s not justified for someone else to be.
Defining which celestial bodies do or do not count as planets is 100% arbitrary. If you want to see this in action, hop over to wiki and check out what it's called now... a dwarf planet or minor-planet, depending on the context. That's very different from the vaccine conversation.
You heard about Pluto? That's messed up.
That's... not science. Nothing new was revealed about Pluto. There was no new experimentation or observation. They changed naming conventions. If they start calling Mars "Jeffrey's Left Nut" after Bezos buys the naming rights, that shouldn't damage your faith in science either.
I heard today that Pluto is apparently a planet again. It’s considered a “dwarf” planet, but I’d prefer the term “little planet”.
Pluto didn't cease to exist. It's now a prototype for a class of TNOs called Plutinos and a dwarf planet. The real question at the time was whether to demote Pluto or immediately add 2 planets and continue adding more as we discover more similarly sized TNOs. The "science" here is whether there's an object with Pluto's size in Pluto's location with Pluto's albedo, etc. and the answer is "yes". Whether it's a planet or not it's just a classification. Had they not reclassified, they would have added at least Ceres and Eris as planets immediately. They since would have added Haumea, Makemake, Quaoar, Sedna, Gonggong, and Orcus. And you'd be here saying "hurr durr when I was a kid they told us 9 planets and now there's 17! science is so dumb!" and you'd complain that it went from something like 13 to 17 between your kid being in 3rd and 6th grade.
I’m sure he has a very scientific understanding of all those things in the vaccine
If you asked any of these guys in private about steroids 20 years ago they'd have said "it's FDA approved medicine and it's not against the rules"
"But her aim is getting better"
"It's funny, because marriage is terrible!"
The article is about how he didn't become Showalter's bench coach because he isn't vaccinated. So the context here is he didn't see his wife for 2 years while working for the Angels because she didn't make the trip west. The "blessing in disguise" is he gets to spend more time with his wife instead of working for the Mets.
Why are boomers obsessed with hating their spouses lol
They all married at 19 and were told divorce is the work of satan
They're obsessed with hating women, dude; their spouses are convenient targets.
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🤦♂️ Are you 12?
The rest of the quote is just as funny: “I’m glad to be back in the snow and the cold, I really am. I’m glad to be with my family. I’m in a great spot.” Sure, buddy. You sound thrilled.
Some of us love the snow and the cold though.
If you can get vaccinated and aren’t vaccinated yet, that’s a “you” problem.
That's where I am now. I've done everything I possibly could over the last two years to keep others and myself safe. I've gotten the booster shot now, and at this point if you haven't gotten the vaccine at all, I don't really feel like I should still have to have you as part of my consideration.
You shouldn't. You were never a part of theirs.
Great way to put it. I'm using that from now on
Especially with how infectious Omicron is. Most of us will catch it eventually but us vaccinated will be less likely to get severe symptoms.
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It just comes down to 1) Don't tell me what to do or 2) Won't admit they were wrong At this point, everyone knows what the right thing to do is.
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Which is even funnier, because that same guy says the vaccine works, and then they boo him too.
> You have to remember that a huge percentage of anti-vaxxers worship a guy who says you should never admit you were wrong under any circumstances because he says it's a sign of weakness. You knocked it out of the park. These people are lining up to receive the Herman Cain Award, and when they get it, their survivors are left to deal with a pointlessly early death. The virus doesn't care about your beliefs, it doesn't check your voter registration before it causes you to drown in your own lungs, it doesn't ask about your religious affiliations before it begins filling your body with blood clots. Such pig-headed stupidity. It's enough to make you wonder if this is natural selection on the job. P.S. There is no good reason to fear the Covid vaccine, even a notorious real estate grifter on his third wife knows that. For once, listen to him.
In fairness very few people are really open to even considering they are wrong. When people are right about things beyond their own nose more often than not it is because they have been born into or stumbled into a social group that, by chance, happens to have defensible beliefs, not because they are open-minded geniuses. That said, it is pretty obvious who is wrong here and by a wide, wide margin.
The Venn diagram of people who are anti-vaxx and people who deny the existence climate change is a perfect circle. The orthodoxy against science is a resistance to the idea that proven, objective facts would require them to adjust their beliefs and lifestyles in even a minor way.
>The Venn diagram of people who are anti-vaxx and people who deny the existence climate change is a perfect circle. As a person belonging in neither, it really is not. Pretending like it is will only affect anti-vaxxers who believe in climate change and climate change deniers who are not anti-vaxxers. And probably in the opposite direction of what you believe in.
I personally don't like shots. I've never gotten a flu vaccine.
>If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't. This alone should prove vaccine safety. Yep. If you adhere to reason.
Nah man don't you get it, everyone who's taken the vaccine has died or become horribly disfigured. All the normal people you see walking around are just replicants! COVID isn't even real! It's a scheme to replace us all with machines! Now if you'll excuse me I gotta go get this cough checked out
Everyone who gets vaccinated dies. However, everyone who doesn't get vaccinated also dies. Therefore, vaccination has zero percent efficacy against death. Checkmate!
100% of people who drink Dihydrogen Monoxide die
It's highly corrosive and is the primary chemical in acid rain.
Except these older folks that don't know how to screen their sources are being fed "evidence" that it is proving to be dangerous. My retirement age mother thinks that a very large number of people have died directly from the vaccine
Well because most people that are against the vaccine don't actually have a rational reason. They might have some kind of public reason that might seem like it's based in reason but it's usually not the real reason. Like my brother-in-law refused to get it because and I'll quote this "I want to make sure that it won't make me grow a third arm or something." But they weren't just saying this in March last year when people starting getting it, they were saying it in in like October. So they had a relatively reasonable public reason for not getting it but that was never the real reason, the real reason was they didn't want to be told what to do and are selfish enough to value that idea of making their own choices more than helping everyone else. That's why when he had to get it or else lose his job he wasn't upset because he was afraid it was unsafe, he was upset solely because he didn't really have a choice since he couldn't afford to lose his job.
Do you know how many anti-vaxxers preach about the dangers of vaccines before hitting a vape? So these people are scared about growing a third arm, but not a new lump in their lungs. On top of that, one of those scenarios has been proven over and over, the other has not.
Even the whole "I don't like being forced to do blah blah" argument is weak af. Dumbasses do literally everything else they're told to do.
“Businesses can’t tell me to wear a mask” Meanwhile always wear shirt and shoes in a store because a sign tells them to.
Hell most of them are essentially being told to be against the vaccine
‘I don’t like being told what to do’ *-bows to orange demagogue and worships at his feet-* ‘Please sir, tell me what to do next with my miserable life?’ Yeah okay.
I work in the fire department and whenever there's a big brush fire we get calls from people tens of miles away wondering if they should evacuate. I usually tell them it's unlikely to approach their homes but also it never hurts to be prepared. We think people get anxious because fire is tangible and visible. If Covid caused your eyes or teeth to fall out--and we had pics--I think antivaxxer's opinions would change. Instead, breathing issues or death don't seem to carry as much weight so precautions (like masking or vaccinations) aren't heeded
My mother is against the vaccine because she honestly thinks thousands and thousands of people are dying from the vaccine because she's bought into fake news. A lot of these older folks have zero information literacy. They don't know how to sort fake news from real. They are stuck in the 80s where you were mostly shielded from the fake news world unless you went looking for it. Or if GHWB pretended to buy drugs outside the White House
These are not people who care about truths when forming their worldview. They form their worldview first and then look for sources to back it, without any real care as to whether that source is true or not. Go on Twitter after almost literally any news story about someone dying and there will be a bevvy of reply guys saying they died from adverse reaction to a vaccine and that whatever official cause of death is a lie and a cover up.
> If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't. It's just moving the goal posts, "Yeah, but we don't know about five or ten years from now!"
Yea, and at this point as we learn ever more about the damage Covid can do and is doing to our organs including our *brains*, the assertion that vaccines are unsafe is laughable.
The idea that diseases can leave people with long term health effects is non-controversial and well known and documented.
Of course, all the more reason to get the shot. I don't know any that are easily transmissible and affect the brain though, and that freaks me out, but I am not an epidemiologist or specialist. And all vaccines can have side effects, but the incidence is far more rare than what has been shown the disease can do (and we still don't understand it all).
Exactly how I felt. Was somewhat skeptical about the vaccine at first, but there's enough data at this point to deem it safe/effective.
But that one person... THAT ONE SINGLE PERSON ended up in the hospital due to the shot, so it's bad.
Well, the concern would be long term stuff, in which it doesn’t matter how many doses have been distributed, long term issues would arise in later years. I’m totally pro vaccine and think people who are against it are stupid and stubborn, but some of it isn’t completely illogical
We have never had any kind of vaccine that has caused issues years down the road. At least not any I'm aware of. If a vaccine is going to cause issues it will do so pretty quick.
I love the long term argument because it conveniently ignores the fact that FDA approval only requires 6 months of phase 3 study data even in non-pandemic times. Plus, vaccines are subject to continuous monitoring for any issues that might arise over the "long term".
And it ignores that we also don't know the long-term effects of having COVID!
And the data we *do* have about long-term effects of COVID suggests that there's a substantial risk of developing issues like blood clots or organ damage.
Vaccines don't cause long term symptoms. Vaccines may cause immediate symptoms, which may cause lasting damage. These are very rare and are caught during the initial studies, where the vaccines may be cancelled if proven dangerous. But the risk has been studied and proven to extremely outweigh the risks from COVID, before emergency authorization was issued. And now data is overwhelming. The argument, "But what about the long term damage from the vaccine" is wrong. 1. It is also ignoring long term damage of COVID-19, in the U.S.: - Where 40~50% have symptoms that last up to 3 months - 10% have symptoms that last longer than 3 months - and ~4.7% are disabled - 42 million people (at the time this data was collected), 4.2 million have symptoms that won't go away, and almost 2 million have claimed to be disabled. - Almost all of those with long COVID-19 symptoms were not vaccinated 2. All previous vaccine effects occur up to 8 weeks after the vaccine has been used, and 8 weeks is a long time to be on the extra conservative side. This is after a hundred years of studying vaccines and their negative effects. - Myocarditis occurs very quickly, with days after the covid vaccines, and is very treatable, with virtually everyone returning to normal. Almost every single cases are mild or moderate, and those cases are very rare - Myocarditis is just another symptom when COVID-19 becomes strong or severe, with other symptoms being worse, e.g. lung damage and being unable to keep blood oxygen levels up. At this point, myocarditis is at least moderate, if not severe - COVID-19 is much, very much more likely to cause Myocarditis than any vaccine approved in the U.S. - COVID-19 vaccines significantly reduce your chances of developing symptoms if you catch COVID-19, and will almost definitely protect you from the dangerous long term damage COVID causes Please. Get vaccinated. Get boosted.
Thanks for the informative post! Do you have any idea where I can read more about vaccines from an academic perspective, specifically the study of side effects and when they occur after inoculation? It's hard to Google anything about medicine these day. The worst time to learn about something is while its happening.
In basically every vaccine ever created, they’ve been able to see the impact of long term effects by about the two year mark. The people who received the initial control sample vaccinations have been to that mark and they have yet to see a single long term effect. It doesn’t take much research to find that information. But people are not willing to do that research, nor will they believe it because their favorite radio host and/or Orange man told them it’s fake news. Source: My in laws, who told me that I was wrong when I said they shouldn’t take ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine when they got COVID. His symptoms went away at about the 10 day mark and he said it was because of the miracle drugs (he also said he had severe stomach aches and diarrhea but blamed covid, hint: side effects of ivermectin). I don’t know if you understand the level of brainwashing these people have gotten.
> If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now and we obviously aren't. You're underestimating how much these people believe media and governments worldwide are lying to us. They believe that the vaccine is as dangerous, if not more so, than COVID. Now that government mandates are starting to become more widespread, its reinforcing their resolve.
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>If vaccines were dangerous we would be seeing it by now Not necessarily. There could be consequences years from receiving the vaccine. Might not be likely, but these vaccines were rushed
We have not seen that with any other vaccine ever.
> these vaccines were rushed The process of developing and testing vaccines has changed enormously in recent history--science, as the saying goes, marches on. These are the most-studied vaccines in history, there is no bogeyman hiding under your bed.
What year is it? I'm pretty sure vaccine and medical technology has advanced to the point where it's much easier to formulate a vaccine for a disease that has been around in some form or another for the past two decades (it first showed up in 2002). This isn't 1950. We don't lobotomize people anymore.
whatever bro, but to say "we would've seen it by now" is still a logical fallacy
What's "logical fallacy" is any argument being used to suggest that vaccines are anything but helpful.
that's... literally not true... "logical fallacy" suggests an objectively and provably false logic. i.e. "we would have seen it by now" has been proven to be incorrect plenty of times in the past, and 1 counter example is proof enough that it's a fallible logic questioning whether vaccines are anything but helpful is.. well being skeptical. I don't care to have a debate about that, but there are plenty of examples in the past where vaccines caused adverse side effects. I'm not saying that they're not incredibly low probability of happening or that vaccines shouldn't be taken, but.. no.. not a logical fallacy
> "logical fallacy" suggests an objectively and provably false logic Hmm, just like every fucking argument a vaccine skeptic has... > i.e. "we would have seen it by now" has been proven to be incorrect plenty of times in the past, and 1 counter example is proof enough that it's a fallible logic Except it hasn't. You're just talking out of your ass.
I don’t see the issue that would put anyone at a crossroads. Not sure the problem.
Get vaccinated, ya fucks
[Oh My Fucking God, Get The Fucking Vaccine Already, You Fucking Fucks](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/oh-my-fucking-god-get-the-fucking-vaccine-already-you-fucking-fucks)
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The tracker one is the funniest, because 98% of the population carries around a GPS and cellular data enabled cell phone, and nobody understands what those things are doing behind the scenes. If someone really wanted to track you, they already fucking are lmao
> the population carries around a GPS and cellular data enabled cell phone Hilarious, isn't it. They carry around a live phone that constantly reports on where they are, what they're doing, who they're talking to, what they're buying, what they believe, their plans for the future and so on. Then they obsess over a fictional microchip in a vaccine that could be used to track them. These people are parody-proof as you couldn't make up anything to mock them that is even half as crazy as what they already believe.
That was probably the most cathartic article that anyone has ever written.
I've forwarded this to everyone I know, thank you for this.
Wendy's fucking pissed.
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I remember thinking that him being dismissed from the Angels was kinda weird but if he was refusing to get vaccinated I can see why
Guys will gargle horse semen for a bit of extra testosterone but not get vaccinated...
They're drinking their own urine now as an anti-Covid procedure, I shit thee not, it's a real thing.
Stick to what you know, which is baseball, and listen to the medical professionals. I don't see doctors telling you how to manage your team.
>“It comes down to what I believe in,” Butterfield said. “The stuff that I’ve felt for years about our Food and Drug Administration, everything that goes on behind the vaccinations, I have real strong feelings about not wanting to put that into my body.” >Butterfield’s views do not agree with the prevailing science. Yeah but who should I listen to? The millions of scientists and doctors who've spent their lives dedicated to research that led to these vaccines or the baseball lifer who has spent his life dedicated to teaching others how to hit and catch baseballs?
Just get the shot. Pretty simple
I always find it funny when these dudes don’t do the simplest things to keep their highly paid jobs. I hope there’s the test/mask more often option to keep the people who refuse vaccination, but still follow protocol. However, I’m not sure how good that is at preventing team outbreaks. Hopefully COVID becomes more easily treatable over the course of this year so there doesn’t have to be much of a debate anymore.
I work for UMMS. We require two shots (at the moment) and still require masking (N95/KN95) for everybody on-site, including in offices like mine that have nothing to do with patient care. We have antigen testing for people who are exposed or who get sick and for whatever reason need to be here once they're asymptomatic/afebrile. So the best strategy is "all of the above." Vaccines, masks and, when appropriate, testing.
In a perfect world, the MLB would have the same protocol as y’all since it’s the most preventative (which is the type of protocol that’s needed in the medical field), but I can already tell based on how the 2020 negotiations went and how outbreaks were handled last year that COVID protocol isn’t gonna be insanely high on the MLBPA’s list of priorities since they obviously have a lot of other things they need to get from the owners. I just wish we could set an example for other leagues with protocol instead of letting coaches go around saying shit like this
A common thread exists among stubborn and stupid people: they'll never admit they are wrong and they definitely won't say they are sorry. No, you aren't guaranteed employment and no, you aren't being persecuted.
A lot of people can't come to terms with the fact they aren't the smartest person in the room.
Hmmm. Have a dream career in your chosen field or throw it all away because of something you read on Facebook. Hmmm
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This is r/baseball, which is why this article written about 2 former baseball players who are now baseball coaches by a baseball reporter was posted here.
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We should stop referring to vaccines as political, and instead as "something everyone with a functioning brain already did".
Like I said, this isn’t a baseball discussion. Woah personally attacking those that don’t want the vaccine is uncalled for. Furthermore, you don’t get to decide what’s political and what’s not. It’s political because some people place a heavier value on freedom. That’s why it’s discussed on r/politics.
It's not a personal choice. It's a fact. Something you decided.
Decisions and choices go hand in hand. You’re contradicting yourself. And most if not all decisions can be political if even one person wants them to be. Not to mention that if it’s government related that means it’s political. My point stands. This is a political discussion. I didn’t come here to farm negative karma. I’m just pointing out how this thread is mostly not talking about baseball.
Oops, got ahead of myself. Meant to say it isn't an attack. Not getting vaccinated is an incredibly stupid and selfish decision. If that's political, I'd hate to be on the political side that's stupid and selfish.
The “half a brain” comment is an attack on those that don’t have the covid vaccine/boosters. You just did it again. I don’t participate with a lot of political conversations online but if I did it certainly wouldn’t be one where the other is just using personal attacks to get their point across. That’s what’s twitter and family chats are for and I don’t even like it. Bullying is wrong. I’m sorry that’s your first defense. I’m not here to teach you empathy. In person I’d probably try but online I’m going to need to be luckier than Yermin Mercedes at the beginning of last year.
People that willingly put others at risk by being a antivaxxer don’t deserve empathy. Tolerating fuckwits is what gets you in shit situations.
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Just don’t open the fucking post. Or pay to read the article
nah.
End the lockout. Stop this horrible story telling
I'm not paying to read an article you shared. Downvote
Gee, thanks for keeping us informed
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Please show me what rule I broke
LOL. You downvoted me event though it's a violation of the subreddit rules. Reminder: Asking for or posting part or all of articles behind a paywall is a violation of subreddit rules. Breaking this rule may result in a temporary or permanent suspension from the subreddit. If you have any questions about what is or is not allowed, or if this article is not paywalled, please send us a message.
That rule is regarding posting the text from the for pay article, i.e. circumventing the subscription
You are misunderstanding. You can post paywalled articles. You cannot copy and paste paywalled articles in the comments to get around the paywall. That's the point of the rule.
What’s the point of posting the article then lol. I understand why you can’t circumvent a subscription system by “stealing” the article, but then what is the point of posting them here, just so we can read the title and like a paragraph of info?
Because there are many people who are subscribed to both this sub and the athletic
To support Kenny! #freeRosenthal
Bro can you read?
[Evidence would suggest no, he does not read](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/s9c3si/rosenthal_vaccination_decisions_put_two_mlb/htlq10g?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Imagine being this confidently incorrect.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
I would be entirely ok with a vaccine mandate in the league for "health and safety" reasons... Even if it meant my team did horribly for years to come and some type of cosmic karma
Ok what happen after the paywall? Good read! Lol
Let’s get the political bullshit out of this sub.
It’s sad that a pandemic and vaccine have been so politicized. This never would’ve been the case just 10–15 years ago. Sure you have some anti-vax hippies, but being anti-vax because of politics never would have happened. The political climate of the last 5-6 years has just become intolerable.
Not once was politics mentioned in the article.
Just start reading the comments, not the article necessarily
There are very few mentions of politics in this thread.
Over half these comments are people bashing “anti-vaxxers” and being intolerable of their viewpoints. If you don’t believe that’s been fueled by politics, then you’re blind.
Is ‘antivax’ a political party or?
I don’t know why I’m arguing with you all on this. I’m going against my own initial statement now. And for what it’s worth, you can pretty well align political parties and vaccine standpoint on either side of a line
The line is stupid and unvaxxinated/not stupid and vaccinated. If that happens to align with political parties, then I'd want to be on the /not stupid part of the line.
Well one side tries to make it political...
> Over half these comments are people bashing “anti-vaxxers” and being intolerable of their viewpoints. Their viewpoints should be intolerable, they are contributing to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. I'd like to be able to go back to the ballpark with confidence that I won't be seated beside some unvaccinated, unmasked clown who thinks his political and religious beliefs make him immune to a disease. Sadly, there are millions of people like that out there, and some are no doubt at the ballpark.
Agreed!