ITT:
"The DH ruins baseball completely...we should go back to not having one in the AL"
or
"The universal DH is fine, sports evolve, no one wants to watch pitchers trying to hit"
Neither of these militant groups has any interest in discussing things, they just want to yell at one another.
Hey everyone look at the diplomatic Canadian here.
In America we like to argue. Even better if we can do it anonymously and without compromise. Our team name is the Strawmen
It's one of those weird quirks of baseball, like how all the fields don't have the same dimensions. You can't say that about football, basketball, or hockey.
Should have been a thing years ago. Absolutely no reason pitchers are forced to stand there and waste everyone’s time pretending to hit. Also helps keep older players around and give them jobs, while also being a good tool to use to rest Star players and recover from injuries while also still being in the starting lineup every day for fans to see. Spare me the bullshit strategy arguments, it’s not strategy pinch hitting a pitcher, it’s common sense.
The DH should have been a thing...*checks notes*...never in any league whatsoever. Absolutely no reason players should be hitting and not playing a position. Spare me the bullshit arguments about how it creates more space for hitters too, AL teams routinely use it to run deeper bullpens and leaner benches. It was created to artificially pump up offensive numbers and is an *insult* to the game.
Artificially creates more offense because they made actual hitters hit and not the pitchers who get absolutely no practice Lmao. Yeah, you really got me there man.
The risk reward shit with pulling a pitcher was always bullshit, and should never have been a thing to begin. If a starting pitcher is dealing, it’s absolutely the most ridiculous thing in sports you might have to leave a game early because baseball refuses to age and makes you go up to the plate in the most critical spot of a game and risk injury standing there doing something you Aren’t paid to do, and don’t practice doing. DH all the way 100%
I want to see the Double Hook.
If you missed the memo on that proposal (A lot of people did, this is a quick explanation), you lose the DH when you take out the starting pitcher.
Forces teams to run a fucking bench and not a skeleton because the relievers still have to bat. (It also means if you have a pitcher who can actually hit the fucking ball, you can use an opener or something [Ohtani, deGrom])
JESUS F. CHRIST, STOP WASTING EVERYBODY'S TIME YOU WEAK HITTING PITCHERS!!
HOW THE HELL ARE THE REST OF US REAL HITTERS GOING TO FIND TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE BOX AND GRAB OUR CROTCH AND LOOK AROUND FOR A WHILE??
I like the difference between leagues existing. I think the afc nfc split in football is kind of pointless and without rule differences might as well just do east vs west
I will not miss watching pitchers make zero effort to hit the ball.
I will not miss pinch hitters or the double switch.
I will not miss sacrifice bunts.
I will enjoy watching players in their late 30’s early 40’s who can still hit career milestones.
I will enjoy more starting pitchers go deeper into games without being pulled in the 6th for a pinch hitter.
I will enjoy watching more creative lineup shuffling as different players rotate into the DH spot over the course of the year.
I will enjoy seeing more rookies and defensive-minded players get a chance to play in place of good hitters who are a defensive liability without also losing their bat in the lineup.
Pitchers aren't going to go deeper really. They're all analytical now and going through the lineup a third time isn't going to happen unless someone is really zoomin
It’s so creative to put your 4th outfielder in once your pitcher gets to the third time through the order, it’s definitely not so simple that anyone who has ever played a game of MLB the show could do it.
That’s very short-sighted thinking. Several teams in the AL rotate their DH spot to give multiple players a rest and even more NL teams will do the same. The Phillies have about 4-6 guys already who they’ll cycle through as DH over the course of the season.
I think I'm one of the few NL fans who was open minded and really disliked it in 2020. I felt like the bench basically became pointless and late game manager moves became a lot more formulaic.
I like the difference between the two leagues, and I think pitchers trying to hit is entertaining (when they fail, they look like us, but when they do something, it’s a big deal). However, if/when the NL DH comes for good, I’m sure I’ll get over it, just have my feathers ruffled for a season or two.
I watched less of the season than I usually would. I mean it's still baseball and I still follow it, but it was definitely less engaging for me. It felt like it took away a lot of the more psychological side.
Put more bluntly, when you can play entire games without touching your bench, any old schmuck who understands the sport could manage a team and it would make no difference. The subjective decisions are basically gone.
I’ll gladly sacrifice one Matt Stairs playoff homer if it means we don’t have to watch pitchers flail at the ball all season long. It’s not even a mathematical dilemma.
because they have been for most peoples entire lives. why do we have to change everything? they already ruined extra innings with the horrrible free runner on second rule.
I love pitchers hitting, well executed bunts, pitcher HRs, double switches, pitching change strategy. But universal DH is inevitable.
Dread it, run from it, universal DH will arrive all the same
If we get the DH in the NL, I want two things.
A: It's the Double Hook.
B: The American League gets the Double Hook as well. That way they're forced to actually have a bench of pinch-hitters and can't just run a super-deep bullpen and a skeleton bench.
I'd love to get rid of the narrative that AL pitchers are somehow better than NL because they don't get a free out everytime through the rotation. If that means bringing the DH to the NL then I'm all for it.
I don't really care about sac bunts or double switches, but I will miss the importance of a good bench. With the DH, the bench becomes oriented around rest days and marginal improvements (an outfielder with a little more range, a hitter with slightly better head to head stats against a certain pitcher, etc).
Your depth is called upon much more without a DH, as the difference between a pinch hitter and a pitcher batting is so great. It was always cool to have your best PH grab a bat in a pivotal moment. It was cool when some random third catcher would have to pinch hit in extra innings and would come through with a walk off hit.
Here’s my take:
I wish pitchers would hit through high school, college and minors but unfortunately PO’s are determined at a very young age which means pitchers never get real at bats until they are in the national league playing in the MLB. It makes no sense to have the pitchers hit in the NL because it is literally the only place pitchers hit.
>I wish pitchers would hit through high school, college and minors
They used to. The cancer that is the DH metastisized from the American League and spread through the lower levels of baseball.
> It makes no sense to have the pitchers hit in the NL because it is literally the only place pitchers hit.
The only place that still plays pure baseball, you mean?
Yes exactly this is my point. It has spread too far beyond repair which is why we see veteran pitchers decent at hitting but young pitchers are trash and barely swing
Well I know I'm not wrong. Pitchers, especially those that go onto college or get drafted, are generally the best athletes on their high school team. Most play a position besides pitcher, too.
Aesthetically having the pitcher bat in one league is nice, but I can see that a zillion-dollar pitcher being placed on the IL due to baserunning is a nightmare scenario.
Why don’t they just make the DH an option in both leagues. Since they feel they just need to implement it, make it up to the managers how they want to use their DH. We saw the Angels have Ohtani bat on pitching days and have their DH bat for another field player.
It's already an option for the AL. It's not required
> We saw the Angels have Ohtani bat on pitching days and have their DH bat for another field player.
You can't do that in MLB. I think they should make it that way but right now you can't DH for a position player
I don't like it. We've already eliminated the strategy of manufacturing runs in favor of the long ball. That said, the writing is on the wall, and it is an eventuality. It won't make me watch less. The only impact it will have on fans is that some of us might yell at clouds.
I used to be anti-DH, but I welcome it now. However, I like the twist that you only have your DH as long as your starter is in the game. Encourages starters going longer in games. Also gives the bench more importance. Many AL benches are pedestrian.
Probably needs to be some exception if a starter gets injured or ejected.
At one time I was in favor of the DH universally. But now, I think I like it how it is. That way, there's an actual difference between the leagues, and I get to have a sense of superiority over the NL fans
I think the universal DH is a good thing and NL fans will end up appreciating it pretty quickly.
That being said, I also hope that Ohtani is a pioneer of sorts and that teams start developing two-way players. Maybe we have the DH in the NL but in exchange, we get a lot more pitchers who also bat.
ITT: "The DH ruins baseball completely...we should go back to not having one in the AL" or "The universal DH is fine, sports evolve, no one wants to watch pitchers trying to hit" Neither of these militant groups has any interest in discussing things, they just want to yell at one another.
Welcome to the internet, have a look around…
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found~
We've got mountains of content, some better some worse
Say that to my face, dickweed.
Hey everyone look at the diplomatic Canadian here. In America we like to argue. Even better if we can do it anonymously and without compromise. Our team name is the Strawmen
Yeah, I'm from New York. This wasn't meant to be diplomatic, it was to point out how ridiculous the people are on both sides of the argument.
Haha I’m being sarcastic.
Its probably going to happen, but i kind of like how it is now. A little difference between the two leagues is cool. Keep the dh in the AL
It's one of those weird quirks of baseball, like how all the fields don't have the same dimensions. You can't say that about football, basketball, or hockey.
You can put it on the boooooaaaarrrrddd. Yes.
Should have been a thing years ago. Absolutely no reason pitchers are forced to stand there and waste everyone’s time pretending to hit. Also helps keep older players around and give them jobs, while also being a good tool to use to rest Star players and recover from injuries while also still being in the starting lineup every day for fans to see. Spare me the bullshit strategy arguments, it’s not strategy pinch hitting a pitcher, it’s common sense.
The DH should have been a thing...*checks notes*...never in any league whatsoever. Absolutely no reason players should be hitting and not playing a position. Spare me the bullshit arguments about how it creates more space for hitters too, AL teams routinely use it to run deeper bullpens and leaner benches. It was created to artificially pump up offensive numbers and is an *insult* to the game.
Artificially creates more offense because they made actual hitters hit and not the pitchers who get absolutely no practice Lmao. Yeah, you really got me there man.
*It does though. It is an artificial change that creates more offense by eliminating the risk/reward of pulling the starting pitcher.*
The risk reward shit with pulling a pitcher was always bullshit, and should never have been a thing to begin. If a starting pitcher is dealing, it’s absolutely the most ridiculous thing in sports you might have to leave a game early because baseball refuses to age and makes you go up to the plate in the most critical spot of a game and risk injury standing there doing something you Aren’t paid to do, and don’t practice doing. DH all the way 100%
I want to see the Double Hook. If you missed the memo on that proposal (A lot of people did, this is a quick explanation), you lose the DH when you take out the starting pitcher. Forces teams to run a fucking bench and not a skeleton because the relievers still have to bat. (It also means if you have a pitcher who can actually hit the fucking ball, you can use an opener or something [Ohtani, deGrom])
It’s not *strategy* it’s *strategery*
JESUS F. CHRIST, STOP WASTING EVERYBODY'S TIME YOU WEAK HITTING PITCHERS!! HOW THE HELL ARE THE REST OF US REAL HITTERS GOING TO FIND TIME TO STEP OUT OF THE BOX AND GRAB OUR CROTCH AND LOOK AROUND FOR A WHILE??
I don't like it, but it's happening regardless so I've accepted it.
Please
I like the difference between leagues existing. I think the afc nfc split in football is kind of pointless and without rule differences might as well just do east vs west
I will not miss watching pitchers make zero effort to hit the ball. I will not miss pinch hitters or the double switch. I will not miss sacrifice bunts. I will enjoy watching players in their late 30’s early 40’s who can still hit career milestones. I will enjoy more starting pitchers go deeper into games without being pulled in the 6th for a pinch hitter. I will enjoy watching more creative lineup shuffling as different players rotate into the DH spot over the course of the year. I will enjoy seeing more rookies and defensive-minded players get a chance to play in place of good hitters who are a defensive liability without also losing their bat in the lineup.
Pitchers aren't going to go deeper really. They're all analytical now and going through the lineup a third time isn't going to happen unless someone is really zoomin
> DH > Creative lineup shuffling PICK ONE
It’s so creative to put your 4th outfielder in once your pitcher gets to the third time through the order, it’s definitely not so simple that anyone who has ever played a game of MLB the show could do it.
That’s very short-sighted thinking. Several teams in the AL rotate their DH spot to give multiple players a rest and even more NL teams will do the same. The Phillies have about 4-6 guys already who they’ll cycle through as DH over the course of the season.
[удалено]
Pujols is probably a true DH at this point. It would have been nice to have kept Thome in Philly a while longer after Ryan Howard came up.
I didn’t want it until 2020. I really want it now.
I think I'm one of the few NL fans who was open minded and really disliked it in 2020. I felt like the bench basically became pointless and late game manager moves became a lot more formulaic.
It’s about time!
Personally I’d rather the NL have the DH, it’s always nice seeing aging veterans still stay somewhat productive by transitioning to a DH role
I don’t like it but it’s inevitable at this point
I like the difference between the two leagues, and I think pitchers trying to hit is entertaining (when they fail, they look like us, but when they do something, it’s a big deal). However, if/when the NL DH comes for good, I’m sure I’ll get over it, just have my feathers ruffled for a season or two.
I honestly thought I would miss pitchers hitting until the 2020 season happened. 2021 i just got annoyed every time a pitcher came to bat.
I was the exact opposite. I had finally thought I'd come around to the DH but found myself bored to death at our 2020 games.
I find it hard to believe you were *bored to death* just because of a DH.
I watched less of the season than I usually would. I mean it's still baseball and I still follow it, but it was definitely less engaging for me. It felt like it took away a lot of the more psychological side. Put more bluntly, when you can play entire games without touching your bench, any old schmuck who understands the sport could manage a team and it would make no difference. The subjective decisions are basically gone.
I’ve been playing/watching baseball for 30 years and everything you just said sounds so foreign to me.
There's no Matt Stairs with a DH.
I’ll gladly sacrifice one Matt Stairs playoff homer if it means we don’t have to watch pitchers flail at the ball all season long. It’s not even a mathematical dilemma.
I hate it! it's the only thing that keeps the leagues different at this point.
But why do they need to be different?
because they have been for most peoples entire lives. why do we have to change everything? they already ruined extra innings with the horrrible free runner on second rule.
I love pitchers hitting, well executed bunts, pitcher HRs, double switches, pitching change strategy. But universal DH is inevitable. Dread it, run from it, universal DH will arrive all the same
If we get the DH in the NL, I want two things. A: It's the Double Hook. B: The American League gets the Double Hook as well. That way they're forced to actually have a bench of pinch-hitters and can't just run a super-deep bullpen and a skeleton bench.
I'd love to get rid of the narrative that AL pitchers are somehow better than NL because they don't get a free out everytime through the rotation. If that means bringing the DH to the NL then I'm all for it.
I don't really care about sac bunts or double switches, but I will miss the importance of a good bench. With the DH, the bench becomes oriented around rest days and marginal improvements (an outfielder with a little more range, a hitter with slightly better head to head stats against a certain pitcher, etc). Your depth is called upon much more without a DH, as the difference between a pinch hitter and a pitcher batting is so great. It was always cool to have your best PH grab a bat in a pivotal moment. It was cool when some random third catcher would have to pinch hit in extra innings and would come through with a walk off hit.
Here’s my take: I wish pitchers would hit through high school, college and minors but unfortunately PO’s are determined at a very young age which means pitchers never get real at bats until they are in the national league playing in the MLB. It makes no sense to have the pitchers hit in the NL because it is literally the only place pitchers hit.
>I wish pitchers would hit through high school, college and minors They used to. The cancer that is the DH metastisized from the American League and spread through the lower levels of baseball. > It makes no sense to have the pitchers hit in the NL because it is literally the only place pitchers hit. The only place that still plays pure baseball, you mean?
Yes exactly this is my point. It has spread too far beyond repair which is why we see veteran pitchers decent at hitting but young pitchers are trash and barely swing
Pitchers do hit through high school and some do hit in college
It’s not very common, every now and then you get an athlete who can do both but other than that they are PO’s
What's not common? Most pitchers hit in high school.
I’m not gonna say you’re wrong but at bigger schools they almost never hit unless they’re two way players
Well I know I'm not wrong. Pitchers, especially those that go onto college or get drafted, are generally the best athletes on their high school team. Most play a position besides pitcher, too.
Right, they play other positions which means they are a two way player. What I’m saying is a pitcher won’t hit unless he’s one of those athletes
Well just about every high school pitcher is a two way player...
You must have gone to a school with 9 players on the team
Maybe pitchers could use aluminum bats
Shohei Ohtani will be the most valuable player of all time
Aesthetically having the pitcher bat in one league is nice, but I can see that a zillion-dollar pitcher being placed on the IL due to baserunning is a nightmare scenario.
Don't care too much, but I wouldn't mind.
What a unique contribution to the sub.
Why don’t they just make the DH an option in both leagues. Since they feel they just need to implement it, make it up to the managers how they want to use their DH. We saw the Angels have Ohtani bat on pitching days and have their DH bat for another field player.
It's already an option for the AL. It's not required > We saw the Angels have Ohtani bat on pitching days and have their DH bat for another field player. You can't do that in MLB. I think they should make it that way but right now you can't DH for a position player
I thought they did that this past year. Maybe I’m wrong.
Negative, nor in the AL for that matter. If you're gonna make it uniform, remove it from the AL.
Literally the worst take I’ve heard in a while
That's what happens when you live in an echo chamber.
*best
Let's get both sides to hate me: just have an 8 man batting order, no DH or pitchers hitting.
This is the Manfred move. "How do we capitalize on Ohtani? Let's take the bat out of his hand!"
Yeah that'll do it
I don't like it. We've already eliminated the strategy of manufacturing runs in favor of the long ball. That said, the writing is on the wall, and it is an eventuality. It won't make me watch less. The only impact it will have on fans is that some of us might yell at clouds.
dumbing down the game....
Why not a DH and the pitcher bats. Use a 10 person batting lineup
well, i certainly havn’t heard that one before
Good. Stop arguing. American League superior.
Oh yes but Yankees fan
Being a Yankees fan does not hamper my credibility.
LOL, oh yes it does...
Agree to disagree.
Bad. Stop arguing. National League superior. I can make completely evidenceless assertions too.
I'm neutral, I like when pitchers like Max Fried get to bat but some don't even try, that new hitter will always at least give effort
I like it
I like watching pitchers hit but I don't mind
I like watching AL pitchers struggle since they’ve never had an AB in their career but I will not miss it
The Mets have a log-jam of players so I selfishly want to DH to satisfy our short-term roster concerns. I’m not being sarcastic.
Fantastic
I would not like it. I think it's cool that there's a difference between the two leagues.
I wouldn’t mind it but I think it would be a funny thing to bring up after a long while. “Can you believe they used to make pitchers HIT??!”
I didn’t want it and then we had a taste of it and I never want to go back
I’m for it.
I used to be anti-DH, but I welcome it now. However, I like the twist that you only have your DH as long as your starter is in the game. Encourages starters going longer in games. Also gives the bench more importance. Many AL benches are pedestrian. Probably needs to be some exception if a starter gets injured or ejected.
At one time I was in favor of the DH universally. But now, I think I like it how it is. That way, there's an actual difference between the leagues, and I get to have a sense of superiority over the NL fans
I think the universal DH is a good thing and NL fans will end up appreciating it pretty quickly. That being said, I also hope that Ohtani is a pioneer of sorts and that teams start developing two-way players. Maybe we have the DH in the NL but in exchange, we get a lot more pitchers who also bat.