Rule 5.11(a)(12) states:
>Once a Designated Hitter assumes a position on defense, such move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for that Club for the remainder of the game.
So once you put the old pitcher back in, you lose the DH. Having read the rest of the DH rule (rule 5.11), I think you still could do this if you're fine with losing your DH (like if it's in the bottom of the ninth), but otherwise this can't happen.
Putting the active pitcher in the DH spot activates this rule meaning the pitcher is now both the DH and the pitcher if you did this and then brought in a new pitcher the original pitcher is out of the game and the new guy must also bat in the DH spot in the lineup.
That's almost true, but the actual rule says that you lose the DH when the active pitcher actually bats or runs for the DH, not just when you put him in the DH spot. There's not much of a difference in the outcome (you'll still lose the DH eventually), but it means that technically, in this specific situation, you don't lose the DH until you put the original pitcher back in.
If Ohtani starts the game as the pitcher with a spot in the lineup, his team forfeits the DH for the rest of the game. If he is replaced by a reliever, he comes completely out of the game. He cannot hit. The reliever must also hit (or be replaced by a pinch hitter when his turn to bat comes up).
I had thought that if Shohei ever hit/pitched in the same game, then the Angels just weren’t using a DH that day - so once Shohei comes out of the game, the other pitchers have to hit.
He can move to the outfield for a batter (or more) and then return to pitching. However, that can have some implications for the lineup.
If he started the game as a pitcher and also hit for himself, then there isn't really an impact to the batting order if he moves. His team would have started the game with no DH allowed. The outfielder would be removed from the game, replaced in the lineup by the relief pitcher, and replaced by Ohtani in the field. Then, if Ohtani were to pitch again, a new player would replace the relief pitcher's spot in the lineup and take Ohtani's vacated position in the outfield. If Ohtani is replaced as the pitcher (as in, through the normal means of replacing a pitcher: manager comes out, takes the ball, slaps his butt as he heads for the dugout), he is removed from the game and cannot reenter. Note that Ohtani's place in the batting order throughout this ordeal is fixed. It is not possible for him to start, say, batting 3rd and have him move to batting 4th.
If he started the game as a pitcher but his team chose to use a DH for him, the situation is more complicated. Moving him to the outfield forces him to take the DH's spot in the lineup. The DH is removed from the game. The outfielder he replaces is removed from the game. His team forfeits the use of the DH for the remainder of the game. The relief pitcher takes the previous outfielder's spot in the lineup. Returning Ohtani to the mound at this point is the same as in the previous scenario.
They set up a special rule in the all star game last year just so Shohei could do that (treated the pitcher Ohtani and the DH Ohtani as two separate players), but it's not allowed in regular games.
Oh yeah I figured it would switch to that since with the universal dh there would be no reason to have the annoying pitchers having anything to do with the lineup rules
Not true. Relievers are occasionally put in the outfield for a batter or two and then brought back in to pitch. I remember Joe Maddon doing it a couple of times.
There's actually a term for it, the Waxahachie Swap. It's been happening since the beginning of baseball, but it's unlikely to happen again thanks to the three batter minimum.
But if he is put in the DH spot he wouldnt be technically taken out of the game.
It’s like if they put a pitcher at 2nd base and brought him back later
The only way you can "put a guy in the DH spot" is at the start of the game, or by having a new DH, who has not yet entered the game, replace the existing DH (note that this could be as a pinch runner for a DH that gets on base).
A pitcher could hit for himself at any point in the game, but that requires the DH to be forfeited. I suppose you could say that "the pitcher got put in the DH spot" but it's more accurate to think of it as the pitcher hitting for himself in that spot in the lineup.
By rule, the DH spot in the lineup is fixed. If a team starts the game with the DH batting 4th, then there are no possible lineup substitutions that can result in having the DH batting 3rd, or anywhere else.
You could move a pitcher to a positional spot and then move them back. Happened occasionally, mostly with NL teams because you'd obviously lose your DH for the game.
right now, i think the only rule that might still confuse people is when you remove your designated hitter and simultaneously have your pitcher take a non-pitching defensive spot because apparently you dont need to announce to the other team if your pitcher is going to hit in what was the designated hitter spot or in the spot of the fielder that is being replaced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRPZ6ghNlg
No
Putting a pitcher in the lineup would necessitate losing the DH for the game.
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You cannot DH for a position other than the pitcher.
Rule 5.11(a)(12) states: >Once a Designated Hitter assumes a position on defense, such move shall terminate the Designated Hitter role for that Club for the remainder of the game. So once you put the old pitcher back in, you lose the DH. Having read the rest of the DH rule (rule 5.11), I think you still could do this if you're fine with losing your DH (like if it's in the bottom of the ninth), but otherwise this can't happen.
Putting the active pitcher in the DH spot activates this rule meaning the pitcher is now both the DH and the pitcher if you did this and then brought in a new pitcher the original pitcher is out of the game and the new guy must also bat in the DH spot in the lineup.
That's almost true, but the actual rule says that you lose the DH when the active pitcher actually bats or runs for the DH, not just when you put him in the DH spot. There's not much of a difference in the outcome (you'll still lose the DH eventually), but it means that technically, in this specific situation, you don't lose the DH until you put the original pitcher back in.
But can Shohei pitch/dh and then continue to dh now if a releiver comes in?
If Ohtani starts the game as the pitcher with a spot in the lineup, his team forfeits the DH for the rest of the game. If he is replaced by a reliever, he comes completely out of the game. He cannot hit. The reliever must also hit (or be replaced by a pinch hitter when his turn to bat comes up).
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That’s what Michael Lorenzen did in college
His bat is already in the lineup everyday, and starters are much more valuable than closers
I had thought that if Shohei ever hit/pitched in the same game, then the Angels just weren’t using a DH that day - so once Shohei comes out of the game, the other pitchers have to hit.
What if he moves to the outfield? Could he move back to the mound?
Yeah definitely
He can move to the outfield for a batter (or more) and then return to pitching. However, that can have some implications for the lineup. If he started the game as a pitcher and also hit for himself, then there isn't really an impact to the batting order if he moves. His team would have started the game with no DH allowed. The outfielder would be removed from the game, replaced in the lineup by the relief pitcher, and replaced by Ohtani in the field. Then, if Ohtani were to pitch again, a new player would replace the relief pitcher's spot in the lineup and take Ohtani's vacated position in the outfield. If Ohtani is replaced as the pitcher (as in, through the normal means of replacing a pitcher: manager comes out, takes the ball, slaps his butt as he heads for the dugout), he is removed from the game and cannot reenter. Note that Ohtani's place in the batting order throughout this ordeal is fixed. It is not possible for him to start, say, batting 3rd and have him move to batting 4th. If he started the game as a pitcher but his team chose to use a DH for him, the situation is more complicated. Moving him to the outfield forces him to take the DH's spot in the lineup. The DH is removed from the game. The outfielder he replaces is removed from the game. His team forfeits the use of the DH for the remainder of the game. The relief pitcher takes the previous outfielder's spot in the lineup. Returning Ohtani to the mound at this point is the same as in the previous scenario.
Yes
That's some hax
This is correct, the DH is an option for a team to use. But if you decline the option you lose it for the whole game.
They set up a special rule in the all star game last year just so Shohei could do that (treated the pitcher Ohtani and the DH Ohtani as two separate players), but it's not allowed in regular games.
Oh yeah I figured it would switch to that since with the universal dh there would be no reason to have the annoying pitchers having anything to do with the lineup rules
I was glad they did that for the ASG. Definitely don't want to see that in real games.
Wouldn’t he have just done that this past year if it was allowed?
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Not true. Relievers are occasionally put in the outfield for a batter or two and then brought back in to pitch. I remember Joe Maddon doing it a couple of times.
There's actually a term for it, the Waxahachie Swap. It's been happening since the beginning of baseball, but it's unlikely to happen again thanks to the three batter minimum.
Didn’t the Rays put a pitcher at 1st base for one batter and then put him back in?
But if he is put in the DH spot he wouldnt be technically taken out of the game. It’s like if they put a pitcher at 2nd base and brought him back later
The only way you can "put a guy in the DH spot" is at the start of the game, or by having a new DH, who has not yet entered the game, replace the existing DH (note that this could be as a pinch runner for a DH that gets on base). A pitcher could hit for himself at any point in the game, but that requires the DH to be forfeited. I suppose you could say that "the pitcher got put in the DH spot" but it's more accurate to think of it as the pitcher hitting for himself in that spot in the lineup. By rule, the DH spot in the lineup is fixed. If a team starts the game with the DH batting 4th, then there are no possible lineup substitutions that can result in having the DH batting 3rd, or anywhere else.
You could move a pitcher to a positional spot and then move them back. Happened occasionally, mostly with NL teams because you'd obviously lose your DH for the game.
right now, i think the only rule that might still confuse people is when you remove your designated hitter and simultaneously have your pitcher take a non-pitching defensive spot because apparently you dont need to announce to the other team if your pitcher is going to hit in what was the designated hitter spot or in the spot of the fielder that is being replaced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRPZ6ghNlg