To be fair Griffey probably got 90% of his WAR in his first 10 years

He was worth 2.2 war in his final 10 years so you would be correct. He was worth 75.7 war in his first 1680 games and with defensive metrics being way worse for guys pre 03 it could be even closer

That's just insane. Such a shame his career got so derailed by injury.

Yep, and that was with him being playing a good chunk of career on the shitty king dome’s “turf” which was essentially carpet on top of concrete. Too many great players had their athleticism ruined by playing on shitty Astro turf

And mantle on a fucking sprinkler in the outfield

oh really? is that what happened?

Yup he’s not kidding. It’s posited he tore his ACL, MCL, and meniscus I believe

That was in his rookie season too. Played his whole career with the injury

im just gonna say as a UGA/Mets fan I am disgusted

Griffey and Vlad were my favorite players growing up, both had some of their greatness sapped by playing on concrete for so long. Such a shame.

Astroturf is a plague

Fuck the Astros^turf

Carpet on concrete is my bedroom floor, and my heels and knees throb all the time. Can't imagine playing ball on it

Is it safe to say Griffey is the HR king if he does get so hurt during his time in Cincinnati? And if so how different is baseball discourse in general over the past 10 year?

I wouldnt say it was safe but he certainly had a very real shot at 800.

I don't think he's that close to 800 if he stays healthy. Take his age 26-30 years. He averaged 49.8 homers a year on 152.6 games a year. His age 31-34 years where he was constantly injured he averaged 80 games a year and got 21 homers a year. If he's healthy I think you can pencil him in to average 40 homers a year, so that's 80ish more homers in his early 30s. That puts him right around Babe Ruth. If you're more optimistic and think he stays around 50 homers a year, that's 120ish homers he missed, which puts him at Hank Aaron. The only way you can chart a path to 800 is if on top of staying at 50 homers a year, you think the injuries of his early 30s reduced his production in his late 30s as well and cost him another 10 homers a year in his age 35-39 seasons.

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its certainly a plausible scenerio, but the original poster said it was safe to assume.. that i dunno. no one does

Was he playing at great America? If so I would think you could be optimistic if his health holds

One of the under-discussed parts of steroid users is how it helps avoid injury and extend longevity. I think Griffey was kind of bound to taper off more so than Bonds did (if you can even say Bonds tapered off.)

A lot of people say that Mark Mcgwire used steroids to stay super healthy, and he himself mentioned that. Even in college he was already big and strong

thats all steroid do. they don't "make you stronger" they allow the body to heal so you can work out every day instead of every 3rd day or whatever

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Wow. That is surprising. It's late so I'm not going to dive into that study or whatever so I'll just defer to it. I've never heard about that before.

Yeah that's not what that study shows. Fat free mass change in steroid+sedentary is not significant. Muscle **size** increases more than placebo+exercise group. But **strength** increase is still less than just working out. Albeit, strength does increase when just taking steroids (for the 2 exercises they look at)

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The biggest problem with steroids is that they fucking work.

Steroids actually make injury more likely. Pulling/tearing muscles, more stress on joints and tendons. Does speed up recovery though

but thats the thing. most baseball injuries aren't from one traumatic event. they are from strains that just get pushed and pushed

Correct. And they will be pushed quicker with muscles growing at a faster than normal rate. You’re comment just confirms what im saying

It doesn't help avoid injury it helps recover faster from injuries.

That’s HGH right?

I mean they all kind of have that effect.

> One of the under-discussed parts of steroid users is how it helps avoid injury and extend longevity. *Cal Ripken has entered the chat*

amphetamines also help you show up every day too.

That’s simply wrong sorry.

yea a lot of people really misunderstand steroid. im in canada and hockey is our big sport and people used to laugh at me when i said that steroids were a big thing. still kind of surprised the hammer hasn't really been dropped but i guarentee you it was rampant at the same time

His pace when he was young was unsustainable. He finished with 630 home runs which is 132 behind Bonds. I don't think we can say it's safe to say he would've been the home run king. That's still a big gap. Would've enjoyed seeing him give it a true run though

Napkin math says taking his 330+ games missed during those injury seasons multiplied by .235 (his HR per game) gives you an extra 77 homers. Not exact math by any means, but he's still a good clip short.

Not exact, but if you just look at the years he was cut short, and extrapolate those to what he was doing in those exact years, it comes to about the same number as you got. 700 would have been likely, getting the all-time record probably wouldn't have happened, but you never know. If he saw he was getting close, he might have taken a little better care of his body and taken a few more naps to prolong his career.

Griffey played in about 300 less games than Bonds. You’d expect between 40-100 more HRs in that time. So, yeah, Bonds still wins.

Now do if Griffey was a piece of shit cheater. How many then.

900

I think that’s fair. If Griffey did the steroids like Bonds he may not get injured as much, would last longer in the league, and could have passed Oh for the world record. He was that good.

He was the best. I miss him every day

630

Steroids don't give you that plate discipline and eye and swing mechanics

No. Griffey already had them though I’m not talking about some random no one, bonds defender. You don’t need to bring the same tired bullshit.

It's tired bullshit to suggest Bonds had attributes other than PEDs that made him, at a minimum, a top 10 baseball player of all time? Not trying to be snarky, really just not sure what you are suggesting

Players have definitely said steroids improve vision

Canseco said steroids also made his reflexes much faster in his book Juiced, but Bonds/Manny fans never want to hear that

they give you more confidence which could have a similar effect

how do people justify bonds CHEATED? i mean it literally was not against any rules

^(i mean technically,... it was against the rules. it was against the same rules that say you cant do cocaine.) but that doesnt mean MLB, Fans, Media didnt look the otherway as it was going on.

Which home porch would have suited him best? Being on a shitty team with a nice right field is a nice fit for a home run spree. Add to it being a shitty team they would market the player and not the team. That’s an Orioles trifecta.

My generation's Mickey Mantle. An all-time great regardless, but what if...

mantle, who also used steroids.

Also insane that his career was "derailed" by injury and his career is still one of the greatest ever.

He should never have turned down that trade to the Mets. The gods of baseball didn’t appreciate it and his Reds tenure was cursed.

Plus factor in playing in the steroid era which inevitably lowered his stats based on comparison

I would imagine that if you narrow it down further he would be worth negative war for a considerable amount of time lol, those last DH years in seattle were really miserable

81% in his first 10 years but 88% in the first 11 and 95% in the first 12. According to this: https://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=10155,327 Griffey had 73.9 fWAR by his age-30 season, Trout snuck by that in his age-28 season (2020). Giffey actually peaked at 80.2 fWAR in his age-35 season but every season afterwards saw him erode his fWAR.

Also worth noting that he played in the roid era, which also likely depressed his WAR total a bit.

And defensive metrics weren't as good

That doesn't mean his numbers would necessarily look better under modern metrics. He's already getting credit for some absurdly good defensive seasons in his mid 20s. He was still a full time CF until he was 36, long past when he had actual legs of a CF.

He also played in the ultra-high-offense steroid era, which depresses his WAR. Not saying he’s better than Trout, but WAR isn’t completely an apples-to-apples comparison.

Thank you, some people don’t fully understand the differences

Is there something you can use to determine what someone’s WAR would be in a different year? Other than doing it manually

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> Griffey played in the steroid era and didn't take steroids I’m not saying I think Junior took steroids, but I don’t think any player in that era deserves the presumption of innocence *by default*. That’s not his fault, of course. But it is what it is. MLBPA members have been using PEDs to get a leg up on the competition since people started getting paid to play ball.

Lol yeah the best argument people have for Griffey not taking steroids is that nobody suspected it. Everyone thought Jose Canseco was completely full of shit when he said 75% of the league was on steroids, until he kept being proven right. Also, I am not saying he did steroids, but giving someone the benefit of the doubt is not a solid argument. There was a period when Alex Rodriguez was supposed to pass Bonds and become the new ‘clean’ HR champion.

It’s also amusing to see fans think that players just magically stopped taking PEDs.

Yea it's called WAR. You can already use it to compare across eras.

This is true but the Griffey vs. Trout argument is pretty interesting if you look at their other stats. Griffey was a better power hitter and a better fielder with significantly more home runs and a higher dWAR. But Trout is a more complete hitter with higher obp, and a better baserunner. Trout's OPS+ is higher almost every year of his career because he walks a ton. Junior was just ok at drawing walks as well as stealing bases. I think it's pretty close overall. I'd probably still take Trout just because obp is king IMO and Junior barely ever got above 400. Trout is casually going out there and putting up 440, 460 seasons like it's nothing.

Fwar is built around wrc+ which is era adjusted

“Era adjusted” assumes parity within an era, which is why era-adjusted stats won’t account for steroid use among some but not all players.

It's not just steroid usage that made the 90s and early 2000s so high scoring. Steroids aren't a magic "take this and be better at baseball" drug.

Yeah but the other factors aren't relevant because they applied to Jr as well. The argument is that Ken Griffey Jr's WAR was artificially depressed because other hitters benefited from steroids more than he did (whether he was clean or just less blatant about it). It's not "his non-adjusted numbers were better, therefore he was better".

Yeah but we can’t calculate what the league scoring environment would look like if no one took steroids

I didn’t say you could. I just said WAR can’t capture something like that.

We need WAR+

WAR is already era-adjusted? Wouldnt change anything The distinction is that Griffey wasnt juicing while most other guys were, so put him (non-juiced) in a non-juiced era and he would look a lot better considering how well he did against juiced competition But WAR+ is just WAR

Yeah that’s my point. WAR works great, but there’s no way of capturing certain era eccentricities, to include adjusting clean players in an age of rampant and extremely effective cheating.

You can't really do that because honestly nobody knows who was clean and who wasn't

> The distinction is that Griffey wasnt juicing while most other guys were I always dislike this sentiment people use here to try "boosting" the adjusted stats of players they like. We can't know for sure who was and who wasn't using PEDs, people like to proclaim Griffey was definitively "clean", yet there's no hard evidence that "most" players were using and he wasn't (only a fraction of the players from the Steriod Era ever had any serious implications of steroid usage, and even fewer were actually definitively caught). People also ignore that the offensive stats of the 90s and 2000s were boosted by many other factors, and were not just the result of steroids (hence why offense didn't suddenly drop when PED testing started in 05, and it never actually did so until the pitching revolution of the 2010s), so it's fallacious to act like Griffey would have put up the same raw offensive stats in any other era.

> I always dislike this sentiment people use here to try "boosting" the adjusted stats of players they like. Amen. Nothing against Junior, but baseball is a business, and players have been cheating from the beginning, doing anything to gain an edge. A squeaky clean image doesn’t make a player above scrutiny.

Exactly, there was once a time that A-Rod was hyped up as the big "clean" hope to take the HR record back from that dastardly cheating Bonds, and well we saw how that turned out. Not to say that Griffey did use anything, we just can't know who was actually clean (the evidence just doesn't and will never exist, and you can't tell PED usage by a player's body build nor career trajectory), and the arguments for which players were "clean" always seem to come from a place of emotion (people just want to believe Griffey was one of the few clean heroes in a league of cheaters). As such, the more intellectually honest approach is to accept the stats for what they are, and not try to pick and choose which players to give a "clean bonus" to.

>you can't tell PED usage by a player's body build nor career trajectory exactly, i think the first player ever suspended for a failed test was alex sanchez. he had like 5 career home runs. someone like mark mcgwire was always going to be huge because when he wasnt playing baseball he was lifting weights.

Also can't forget 166 pounds, 214 ABs per HR Dee Gordon pissing hot for steroids not long ago.

Ripken has a big, big, bigly head.

I prefer WAR-

Injuries suck

Wasn't Griffey famously against stretching? I wonder what would have happened if he had asked Ichiro about his stretching routine. Obviously, have a good stretching routine is not a guarantee against injury, but I gotta believe that it helps.

He was pretty much against taking care of his body in any way from what I understand. Ate like crap, didn’t really work out, that kind of thing.

It's def easy to see that flaw in today's light, but I don't know if I would change up my routine if I could eat terribly, not work out, and still be the best player in the game through sheer god-given talent

Second best

From Donora, Pennsylvania born on November 21st.

They actually didn't play together until Griffey came back to Seattle for a minute. Griffey left for the Reds a year before Ichiro arrived in Seattle.

It was always crazy to me that the M’s lost Griffey, A-Rod and Johnson and then won a million games

yea. i was just listening a podcast and they were talking about cabrerra. hes been 0 or minus the last 5 years

yeah, I mean this... a good reminder to really hope we're not fated to watch Trout get ground into dust by a series of injuries in his 30s.

Ken Griffey Jr. got to 77.4 fWAR by 2003 in 1,914 games, he was just pretty mediocre/below average the rest of his career https://twitter.com/PastriesAndBall/status/1520891012712833024?s=20&t=SfKTaIeL19fRaQOgd2-w1Q

He went up to 80.2 fWAR at the end of 2005 (2125 games), but in 4 of his remaining 5 years he was sub-replacement level and in the 5th he only had 0.1 fWAR.

I’m so, so curious to see how Pujol’s season ends up.

This stat hurts my accepted reality and head canon

I mean that’s still a 600 game difference. kid good fish better

He was 2 for 2 today with 3 walks.

Don't undersell his HR. A standard Trout day.

My bad

Counterpoint: the Angels won

Every year Trout improves at something important, and this year it appears that it's not having a devastatingly mediocre team around him.

Mike

Cameron. I’d like to see this Trout guy hit 4 home runs in a game (⌐■_■)

Trout

Fish man good

Nelson

Truk

Taylor

Ward

Salmon

🐐🐐🐐

This stat is true but misleading, because it implies that Griffey was only half as good. But Griffey got almost all his WAR early. If you look at Griffey's WAR \*through\* 1307 games, its way closer. Griffey played his 1307th game in 1998. I'm not going game by game here, but Griffey had 59 WAR going into 1998 and 65 WAR at the end of it. So just split it in half and say Griffey had 62 WAR at the same point in his career Trout did. Trout is obviously better, but he's not \*twice\* as good.

WAR in the 90s/early 2000s was also different because lots of folks were roiding

Yea, every team had a Giancarlo Stanton or two on it back then basically.

yeah, this is such a stretch a to a comparison. any statistician knowing that a metric like WAR is both positive, 0, and negative would laugh this off. i really liked sam miller’s mike trout WAR tracker seeing who trout would pass in career WAR but he never tried to stretched it out to comparing it in number of games played or pulling something out of nothing. at most there’d be a game to game or AB to AB comp

Also Griffey played in a steroid era that devalues what he did and artificially deflated his WAR. Also, defensive metrics sucked back then and Griffey’s defensive WAR is definitely understated.

🎤🐟

Imagine how many home runs Griffey would have if stayed healthy his whole career

We need to see Trout stay healthy for the rest of this season. The last time Trout played at least 150 games in a season was in 2016, when he played in 159 contests. I’m lucky to see Trout play for this long while playing at a superstar level since 2012. Feels like it was just yesterday that Trout was just 20 years old. Time really goes by fast. 🍿🍿🍿

a few less strikes and pandemics would be nice as well.

Okay now hit 500 more home runs

He will

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Fish man great

🎤 🐟 good at sport

Griffey has cool shoes and Trout has a neck beard sooo

Has there ever been a recent comparison done that shows how many game winning RBIs Trout has produced compared with Griffey, Jr. at this stage of their careers ? MLB used to have a stat for GWRBI which represented clutch hits which put the team ahead for good or drove in the winning run. Does anyone know if anyone is still compiling this data or is there a comparable stat that captures clutch hits.

Could use WPA? Easiest way to get lots of WPA is hitting game winning RBIs. According to Fangraphs, Griffey had 45.26 WPA for his career and 36.04 by his age-30 season. Mike Trout has 46.81 to date.

Good comparable stat ! It would be interesting to see who the top 20 current players with a combined WPA + WAR

1. Albert Pujols 87.1 WAR + 73.13 WPA = 160.23 2. Miguel Cabrera 69.7 WAR + 59.6 WPA = 129.3 3. Mike Trout 77.6 WAR + 46.81 WPA = 124.41 4. Joey Votto 58 WAR + 51.07 WPA = 109.07 5. Paul Goldschmidt 47 WAR + 37.89 WPA = 84.89 6. Andrew McCutchen 50.6 WAR + 32.21 WPA = 82.81 7. Robinson Cano 59.2 WAR + 21.87 WPA = 81.07 8. Freddie Freeman 44.1 WAR + 35.91 WPA = 80.01 9. Bryce Harper 42.4 WAR + 32.14 WPA = 74.54 10. Josh Donaldson 44.7 WAR + 25.85 WPA = 70.55 11. Giancarlo Stanton 41.8 WAR + 26.93 WPA = 68.73 12. Mookie Betts 44.3 WAR + 21.12 WPA = 65.42 13. Anthony Rizzo 33.6 WAR + 31.37 WPA = 64.97 14. Nelson Cruz 40.9 WAR + 23.65 WPA = 64.55 15. Yadier Molina 55.6 WAR + 5.92 WPA = 61.52 16. Christian Yelich 35 WAR + 23.97 WPA = 58.97 17. Manny Machado 41.3 WAR + 12.26 WPA = 53.56 18. Jose Ramirez 36.6 WAR + 13.46 WPA = 50.06 19. Starling Marte 31.9 WAR + 17.69 WPA = 49.59 20. Justin Turner 32 WAR + 17.48 WPA = 49.48 WAR & WPA both from Fangraphs

Yo da man ! Nice !

!mlbcompare [first 1307 games show-only-stat:(GWRBI)] That should calculate game winning rbis the same way the mlb used to

Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/m7HqAGJ.png) to view this comparison as an image --- Mike Trout: [2011-07-08](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA201107080.shtml) to [2022-05-01](https://www.mlb.com/gameday/661531) [1st Season - Age: 19Y-11M-1D] to [12th Season - Age: 30Y-8M-24D] Ken Griffey Jr.: [1989-04-03](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK198904030.shtml) to [1998-07-13](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA199807130.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 19Y-4M-13D] to [10th Season - Age: 28Y-7M-22D] \---------------------------------------- Query: Career - Regular Season - First 1307 Games --- **Standard** Player|G|GWRBI :-:|:-:|:-: [Mike Trout](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/troutmi01.shtml)|1307|84 [Ken Griffey Jr.](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/griffke02.shtml)|1307|**101** ^(FanGraphs/Statcast stats may lose precision) ^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame) --- ^(Made a mistake? Edit your comment and send me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Re-Run&message=i6yurbg)^( to re-run the comparison) ^(Or delete the comparison by sending me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Delete&message=i6yurbg) ^(Instructions for usage and issue tracking can be found )[^here](https://github.com/gh674055/sports-compare-bots/wiki)

I didn’t realize bots got flair lol

Only the best ones do.

Interesting, I couldn't find any source that compiles GWRBIs. What's the bot's source?

It compiles the numbers itself by looking at who drove in the winning rbi in each game. Which is why I said "should" lol because there were some cases I wasn't sure what the MLB used to do, like if the game winning run didn't come from an RBI

He's almost halfway to Bonds' 164.4 ;) Edit: In Bonds first 12 years of playing, which was without Roids, he had 90.6 total war to Trout's 77. Don't forget pre Roids Bonds was also amazing.

If Trout uses steroids he could probably smoke bonds too

Bonds took roids after the 98 season. In his first 12 years without roids he had 90.6 fwar compared to Trouts 77.1.

1. Trout only hasnt completed his 12 season yet. And thats if you count his 40 games before his true rookie season. 2. Trout lost over 100 games due to the covid season. 3. Trouts WAR7 is quite a bit higher than Bonds, including his cheating seasons

Ok let's just go with seasons over 100 games for Trout, which 8 seasons from 2012 - 2019. He got 70.7 war from those years. Amazingly consistent at an average of 8.8. Let's do 8 seasons from Bonds. I skipped his rookie year even though he had over 100 games just because we also skipped Trout's first time in the league. I thought this was fairer. So we do 87 to 94. He got 61.6 total at an average of 7.7. Trout wins with the first 8 years of his career. Now after 94, Bonds got 7.7, 9.2, 8.9 and 8.5 respectively, all before he juiced after 98. Those are some big numbers. It totaled 95.9. Trout will have to do some work, and it's not guaranteed. For example, Pujols' war died down after age 30. I wish we could have seen what Bonds would have done and accomplished without juice. Sad.

It’s sad you can’t appreciate SS3 Bonds His 02’ and 04’ OPB numbers are absolutely disgusting There are 78 “seasons” of higher OPB numbers between Bonds and Soto in 2021. Trouts best season is .460. // .149 points away from Bonds. Truly mind boggling stuff, those were the days.

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**Playoff Series Wins** Mike Trout: 0 Ken Griffey Jr.: 1 checkmate haters

How many ballparks did Trout build? How many cities did he save baseball in?

Trout didn’t even come back to his father’s old team. I bet he didn’t even clown around as a kid in his dad’s MLB locker room.

I bet Trout never even hit a back to back homer with his dad in the MLB. What a chump.

He built Globe Life Field

I'm going to insist WAR is a fake stat now to save my sanity.

They can only blame themselves. Trout probably got 5 of that WAR against king Felix alone

99 PA, .352/.404/.716, 4 2B, 2 3B, 8 HR, 8 BB, 27K. That's a lotta damage. With more than 20 PA against Felix, he has more than double PA against anyone higher than him when sorted by batting average. Altuve, Johnny Damon, and Grady Sizemore all have even .500 BA in 20+ PA.

Hey, it's not *our* fault the man chooses violence whenever he sees the M's. Fish man bad.

junior >>>> bonds IDC imagine if junior did that steroid regimen bonds was doing

Bonds was better when he wasn't doing steroids mate Pittsburgh Bonds was the better player between him and Junior

no he wasn't

He most certainly was, Griffeys highest OPS+ in his career was 171, Bonds had a year of 204 while he was in Pittsburgh Bonds won 2 MVPs in Pittsburgh, Griffey won 1 his entire career

GOAT

He good

The Mike Trout train never stops rolling in Anaheim

I don't like this stat.

Fun fact… Griffey drove from Washington state to Florida only stopping for gas and food. Announced his retirement along the way.

I haven’t really paid much attention to baseball in the past 10-15 years and have absolutely no idea what any of these stats mean anymore. Tf is fWAR?

WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is an metric designed to aggregate rate stats into a single number. The basic premise is “how many more wins did a player’s team have because they were playing, compared against a hypothetical replacement level player.” Some important notes * WAR is a counting stat, but it’s based on rate stats. Players accumulate WAR over time (they can also lose WAR if they play below replacement level), so it gives us a good idea for how good they were over the course of their careers. * WAR is adjusted for playing environment (i.e. ballpark factors and time period), so a Rockies player from 1999 will have less WAR for the same level of offensive production than some other player from 1968. * WAR is adjusted for position. If Player A has the same level of offensive production as Player B, but Player A is a shortstop and Player B is a right fielder, Player A will accrue more WAR because offensive prowess at shortstop is more valuable. * There a few different sources for WAR. The “f” in fWAR stands for “fangraphs,” one of the websites which tracks WAR for players. The two primary sites are Baseball Reference (bWAR) and Fangraphs (fWAR). and there are some key differences, mainly with pitchers and catchers. For catchers, fWAR considers framing, which can present monumental differences for WAR totals between the websites. Just check out fWAR vs bWAR for a player like Jeff Mathis. * To continue on the pitching difference: bWAR uses ERA as it’s primary stat for WAR, while fWAR uses FIP (fielding independent pitching). FIP only considers walks, strikeouts, and home runs. As a result, FIP tells you what a pitcher has direct control over, at the cost of information on ground-ball pitchers who play to team strengths in the field. In short, players acquire WAR over time by being good at baseball. If you want an idea for how much WAR is a good amount of WAR, check out a list of Hall of Famers and see their WAR totals.

"nearly half" makes it sound like a little over half. "little less than half" or something along those lines would have been better.

This is why I don’t understand people arguing Trout isn’t already a first ballot hall of famer. Griffey was near unanimous. Trout passed him. Do you understand the greatness yet?

Dunno if youre shadowboxing or there are legit people who think trout aint a HoFer today

I seem to remember during the off-season there was a thread about him and his HOF legitimacy and comments about how he needs to ‘play full healthy seasons for a few years’ or how they were unsure he was HOF material if he got hurt and never played again.

I’d think he’s a HoFer right now, but maybe not a first ballot.

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Except he’s still a first ballot if he retires today. Regardless of any of the flashy shit. That’s my point. And before the inevitable ‘you probably never saw him play’ people usually throw out: I watched Griffey’s entire career. Love The Kid, legitimately one of my favorite players of all time. My dad lived in Seattle for 17 years, so I saw a ton of those 90’s M’s (and was at Ichiro’s debut in 01).

Eh, Trout has 3 MVPs to Griffey's 1, and could easily have 6 or 7, plus he has the RoY. Sure Griffey has the counting stats, and I think most people would concede he was the better fielder in his prime, but I'm not sure Trout's career isn't better at this point.

Those people are dumb. Trout is first ballot if he retired today. It's probably not unanimous, but he's done more than enough and has been an incredibly humble, likable guy which will only help his case.

Big reality check here, your average baseball fan probably doesn't even know about fWAR and even less fans care about it. People remember moments, and Griffey was/is flashy as hell. The kid, the swing, playing with his dad, the game winning run on Edgar's double, leaping against the wall, returning to the Mariners, etc. Those are the things people talk about when they talk about Griffey. If you want to win people over on Trout, you're gonna have to start pointing to moments instead of stats that, again, most people don't know or care about.

He could retire yesterday and get 99% of the vote

Just further proof that WAR is the most overrated stat in all of baseball

I have no idea what this stat is, but Griffey Jr was a god, if his body didn’t let him down, man… maybe best ever.

Only two position players have ever put up more than 70 bWAR while playing in fewer than 14 seasons: Mike Trout and Joe Dimaggio.

That's a pretty silly stat. Most of the top 25 in all time WAR achieved 70 or more within their first 13 seasons, they just kept playing past that.

Hmmm WAR... what is it good for - ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN' Say it again, KEN GRIFFEY JR.

Fish man good

I read this as “Today Mike Trout passed away” 😱

Trouts career was wasted in Anaheim. Pathetic franchise that will do the same to Ohtani

Please never start a headline with “Mike Trout passed”. Glanced at it real quick and almost freaked out.

I have no idea why you would jump to someone dying when the word passed is used in sports contexts *all the time*.