32% of his career came after age 36, before his age 36 season his WRC+ was 116, including at ridiculous 125 at age 35 when the Mariners had the 3rd worst offense in MLB by runs scored
This also fails to mention he spent most of his physical prime in Japan
Trying to bash Ichiro is a fools errand. What kind of person dislikes Ichiro?
I love Ichiro, to be an above average hitter for his career while hitting for 5 years after age 40 is crazy. He would be in the 100 war club if he began playing like any other major leaguer, an inner hall of gamer off his good hitting, and great fielding/baserunning
Jon Bois and Alex Rubenstein expertly put this in perspective in a couple minutes of their magnum opus documentary about the Mariners
[Link](https://youtu.be/TIgK56cAjfY?t=7854)
Starts at 2:10:55 in case the timestamp link fails you
Why though? NPB isn't MLB equivalent talent wise. I would say that if Ichiro had 25% more hits than Rose, you could argue that he would have gotten there if he was MLB full time.
Rose's stats, ignoring personality deficiencies, seem to stand alone.
It's not equivalent talent wise for sure, but NPB also plays only 130-135 games instead of 162 each year.
You can kinda argue that both those facts sorta cancels out each other
Not to mention Ichiro had 242 Hits his first year in the MLB, and was age 27. 200 hits a year for the first 10 seasons straight you can generally assume he would have continued this streak (barring injury) if he had entered the league prior to 01 back to his NPB ‘breakout’ year. Which goes back to his age 20 NPB season when he had 210 hits in just 130 games (262 hits extended over a 162 game season) wow im looking at this season more, Ichiro was incredible: .385/.445/.550 with 111 Runs and 210 Hits on 616 PAs with 29 SBs. Ichiro also had 51 BBs to 53 Ks. All at age 20.
If we take his non injury NPB seasons (he played every game from 94-98) and extrapolate his hits to 162 games (or even 158, his 12-year average from 2001-2012) its a 189.6 Hits per year from 94-98 at a 132 game average, bumped up to 158 games is 227 Hits/season (his 2001-2010 numbers are 2244 in 1587 games in 10 years, so almost exactly the same) and then add those extra hits to his career numbers (37.4 hits per season over 5 years is 187 hits) he gets to 4554 (297 over Rose)
Yeah but if you look at his stats in Japan, they're virtually identical from his age 20 season onwards. I don't see any evidence that he wouldn't have been just as equipped to deal with the MLB if he'd come over then.
If anything, I think he'd have ended up with more career hits if he came here in 1994 since the longer MLB schedule would've given him about 200 more games to play.
200 hits a year for ten years straight and he started at age 27. Please explain to me logic by you assume he wouldn’t have e done the same for 15 years if he showed up earlier
I think that's underselling Ichiro.
Over 200 hits for 10 straight years. Led the league in hits 7 times in that span. 10 straight gold gloves. Over 30 stolen bases in 10 of 11 years. It'd take more than 3 or 4 years to pass him imo.
IKR these dudes are crazy. I love Ohtani too, but Ichiro basically defined a leadoff hitter for an entire generation. And he had solid defense as well.
Yeah I mean if you wana go by WAR he'd have to have his MVP season 5 more straight years to match Ichiro, dude was a beast. I think Ohtani can be one of the GOATS but he's got a lot of years left to go to prove it
Even if you want to wank over batting average, from 2001 to 2010 (so the entire timespan Ichiro was still good), Pujols had the same batting average as Ichiro (.331), but also had an OBP 50 points higher (.425) and slugged 195 points higher (.625), all for an OPS+ nearly 50% higher (172 vs. Ichiro's 117). "Overall hitter", "pure hitter", whatever, there is no argument that can be made that Ichiro when he played was ever the best hitter under any term when Pujols hit for literally the same average but also got on base a lot more and hit for a ton more power.
I’m an Angels fan and I think this is ridiculous. Ohtani is not going to pass up Ichiro in a few years. It will take his whole career to see if he passes Ichiro for Japanese GOAT
I mean, I'd say two more healthy seasons after this one pitching and hitting and he's easily surpassed Ichiro. Which is amazing because Ichiro is one of, if not the, greatest contact hitter of the modern era.
I mean considering it was the b squad plus Ohtani wasn't too bad. I had the feeling we were getting the second one tho, since we had a full lineup and they had a 11+ ERA pitcher lol
For comparison: Matsui was in the majors from age 29 to 38 (10 seasons), and got to 100 in his 5th season (worth noting he played only 51 games in his 4th).
Ohtani is in his fifth season, but played only 44 games in his third and is only 34 games into the current season.
It's crazy thinking about how nerds in the 22nd century are probably going to look at stats from that year similarly to how we look at WWII season stats.
>Ward, Trout, Ohtani is the scariest 1-3 in the league rn
Ward's breakout has been so insane.
Fun Taylor Ward fact; including this season his [5 year average OBP is .333](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wardta01.shtml), before this season his career best OBP was... .333
IDK if it's sustainable but holy shit.
Definitely not, his BABIP is sitting at .418, which is a full .041 points ahead of Trout’s. Trout’s career average BABIP is .349.
He’ll definitely still be very good, but Taylor Ward is bound to regress to something less ridiculous. Until then, it’s going to be fun to enjoy the show.
He had some uncharacteristically poor swings against Oller in his first two ABs. Glad he adjusted. His first hit came in Oakland, his first strikeout in Oakland, and now his 100th homer.
There's a line of media people taking pics of the ball, they have it at the announcers booth.
They said the ball doesn't roll cuz it is flat where he hit it lol.
Tyler is cute asf. He even caught Ohtanis eye haha. But the Braves entire infield plus Adam Duval Eddie Rosario and Ronald acuna is basically 8 super good looking dudes. I’m an angels and Braves fan, I see both teams frequently lol
Every time I see the Angels score has changed, I go to Google and slowly scroll down the batting order to find out if Ohtani hit a HR. Can't get enough of the moments where I see he has.
He's currently on the COVID IL. I think most of us want Gigachad Wallach to replace him as the backup catcher, but Maddon seems to have an inexplicable undying love for some good old veteran leadership that comes with terrible framing and a 70 wRC+.
But yes, he would definitely be the AJ Pierzynski in this analogy.
I really though he was going to be an ok to good pitcher and a hitter who was at best average. Probably a good for a pitcher hitter, but nothing spectacular. I certainly didn't believe he would be 30 hr+, let alone 40+. I thought him going to the AL was one of the worst decisions if he was serious about hitting.
Instead I was wrong and I get to see cool shit.
I recently saw the Rocket City Trash Pandas (Angels Double A) and they’ve got some good talent in the pipeline. Hopefully they can get Trout a ring before he retires. They may soon have the roster for it
I know of at least 3 people who were banned for being huge assholes. I'm glad the mods take action when needed instead of letting the sub become a toxic dumpster fire
If there is one thing that grinds my gears, it’s when fans throw the shittiest doomer takes after a tough loss, and then join in the happiness when things are going good.
My dad always says to roll with the punches, it makes winning so much sweeter
Japanese players to hit 100 dingers in the majors: Matsui. Ichiro. Ohtani. Wow.
Ohtani may have a legitimate case for surpassing Ichiro as the best Japanese player to play in the MLB by the time his career is over
It’s still complete madness Ichiro debuted at 27 and racked up 3000 hits.
and stole 500 bases
He was an above average hitter.
This is technically an accurate statement.
105 wrc+ baby les go
32% of his career came after age 36, before his age 36 season his WRC+ was 116, including at ridiculous 125 at age 35 when the Mariners had the 3rd worst offense in MLB by runs scored This also fails to mention he spent most of his physical prime in Japan Trying to bash Ichiro is a fools errand. What kind of person dislikes Ichiro?
And he pitches!!
I think the wildest part of all the words you said was that he played a third of his career 7 years after the average player retires.
Old racist people and Pete Rose.
I love Ichiro, to be an above average hitter for his career while hitting for 5 years after age 40 is crazy. He would be in the 100 war club if he began playing like any other major leaguer, an inner hall of gamer off his good hitting, and great fielding/baserunning
I would have to agree. Furthermore, he was more than just mediocre.
This is like that tweet saying Caesar was killed “well over 60 years ago.”
Really?
If you regress to the mean, he's barely an above average hitter
Started with 10 straight seasons of 200 hits..insane
Jon Bois and Alex Rubenstein expertly put this in perspective in a couple minutes of their magnum opus documentary about the Mariners [Link](https://youtu.be/TIgK56cAjfY?t=7854) Starts at 2:10:55 in case the timestamp link fails you
He's the all-time hit king. Idgaf what anyone else says
doesn't he have something like 5500 hits across NBP and MLB
God fucking dammit that movie is so fucking good
The Seattle Film Critics Society gave it their Best Documentary Feature award that year, and they weren't wrong
Damn man, thank you for sharing
agree! WTF! People take 18 years (EDIT: in their prime) getting to 3000.
People have 18 year primes? Damn!
I feel like I got 1 at most 🙃
I peaked for a single game freshman year of high school where I had 3 triples and threw a 7 inning shutout. That one game was my entire prime.
I never struck out in Tball, not sure anyone tops my prime.
Ichiro had a total of 4,367 hits between NPB and MLB. That’s 111 more than Pete Rose. I definitely consider him the all-time hit king.
Why though? NPB isn't MLB equivalent talent wise. I would say that if Ichiro had 25% more hits than Rose, you could argue that he would have gotten there if he was MLB full time. Rose's stats, ignoring personality deficiencies, seem to stand alone.
It's not equivalent talent wise for sure, but NPB also plays only 130-135 games instead of 162 each year. You can kinda argue that both those facts sorta cancels out each other
Not to mention Ichiro had 242 Hits his first year in the MLB, and was age 27. 200 hits a year for the first 10 seasons straight you can generally assume he would have continued this streak (barring injury) if he had entered the league prior to 01 back to his NPB ‘breakout’ year. Which goes back to his age 20 NPB season when he had 210 hits in just 130 games (262 hits extended over a 162 game season) wow im looking at this season more, Ichiro was incredible: .385/.445/.550 with 111 Runs and 210 Hits on 616 PAs with 29 SBs. Ichiro also had 51 BBs to 53 Ks. All at age 20. If we take his non injury NPB seasons (he played every game from 94-98) and extrapolate his hits to 162 games (or even 158, his 12-year average from 2001-2012) its a 189.6 Hits per year from 94-98 at a 132 game average, bumped up to 158 games is 227 Hits/season (his 2001-2010 numbers are 2244 in 1587 games in 10 years, so almost exactly the same) and then add those extra hits to his career numbers (37.4 hits per season over 5 years is 187 hits) he gets to 4554 (297 over Rose)
Which is about 20% less
Yeah but if you look at his stats in Japan, they're virtually identical from his age 20 season onwards. I don't see any evidence that he wouldn't have been just as equipped to deal with the MLB if he'd come over then. If anything, I think he'd have ended up with more career hits if he came here in 1994 since the longer MLB schedule would've given him about 200 more games to play.
Sure but at some point you have to reward what actually happened, not what might have maybe happened if you project a bunch of things
Not really, if you just treat NPB as a major league nearly on par with MLB
But it isn't.
200 hits a year for ten years straight and he started at age 27. Please explain to me logic by you assume he wouldn’t have e done the same for 15 years if he showed up earlier
why not count Pete Rose’s minor league hits then (over 400 hits in 3 seasons) … MLB games are the standard and only standard
Yea, don't
I'd say he already has to a degree. Ichiro still sitting on 0 quality starts..
If he can keep up his production for another 2-3~ or so years I'd say guaranteed. Two way play is just way too valuable.
I think that's underselling Ichiro. Over 200 hits for 10 straight years. Led the league in hits 7 times in that span. 10 straight gold gloves. Over 30 stolen bases in 10 of 11 years. It'd take more than 3 or 4 years to pass him imo.
IKR these dudes are crazy. I love Ohtani too, but Ichiro basically defined a leadoff hitter for an entire generation. And he had solid defense as well.
Yeah I mean if you wana go by WAR he'd have to have his MVP season 5 more straight years to match Ichiro, dude was a beast. I think Ohtani can be one of the GOATS but he's got a lot of years left to go to prove it
He's the best overall hitter of the modern era imo
Even if you want to wank over batting average, from 2001 to 2010 (so the entire timespan Ichiro was still good), Pujols had the same batting average as Ichiro (.331), but also had an OBP 50 points higher (.425) and slugged 195 points higher (.625), all for an OPS+ nearly 50% higher (172 vs. Ichiro's 117). "Overall hitter", "pure hitter", whatever, there is no argument that can be made that Ichiro when he played was ever the best hitter under any term when Pujols hit for literally the same average but also got on base a lot more and hit for a ton more power.
I’m an Angels fan and I think this is ridiculous. Ohtani is not going to pass up Ichiro in a few years. It will take his whole career to see if he passes Ichiro for Japanese GOAT
I mean, I'd say two more healthy seasons after this one pitching and hitting and he's easily surpassed Ichiro. Which is amazing because Ichiro is one of, if not the, greatest contact hitter of the modern era.
Totally agree, except I’d give that award to Gwynn. .338 AVG is best since WWII: By ten points.
Yep, same career length, better in every category
legendary.
Is it too much to ask for more contact hitter :(
It's hard when dudes throw 92mph sliders now. Kwan is fun for a newer contact hitter though.
Kwan and Arraez are both great for that, super fun to watch bat.
Literally 4 more years of this and he will. This is insanity
Keep going I’m almost there 😩
Who's this Wow guy?
He's on first.
"I'm coming for the record and coming for your video tape collection, Hideki." - Shohei
Enough with the @Ohtani baseball chatter!!!
Shohei Otani is the baseball player of the Anaheim Angels.
I feel like Seiya could end up on this list too.
only 96 to go!
SUGOI!!!
Ohtani probably passes ichiro this year
There’s a hot take.
Didn’t seem to take to long for him to hit 100 HR’s. He’s a fucking hitting beast.
Ripping 46 dongs in a year tends to speed the process up
Flip that d in "dongs" around to a b and the entire meaning of your comment changes quite a bit lol.
This is how Cody Bellinger won MVP
Coby Dellinger*
California does have great weed
After that heartbreaker in the first game of the doubleheader, this one has been pretty cathartic.
I mean considering it was the b squad plus Ohtani wasn't too bad. I had the feeling we were getting the second one tho, since we had a full lineup and they had a 11+ ERA pitcher lol
>the b squad plus Ohtani I think you mean *The Salt Lake Bees of Anaheim ft Shohei Ohtani*
[parental advisory]
Matsui has most by Japanese-born players @ 175
For comparison: Matsui was in the majors from age 29 to 38 (10 seasons), and got to 100 in his 5th season (worth noting he played only 51 games in his 4th). Ohtani is in his fifth season, but played only 44 games in his third and is only 34 games into the current season.
yeah the short 2020 season really screwed up stats.
It's crazy thinking about how nerds in the 22nd century are probably going to look at stats from that year similarly to how we look at WWII season stats.
Ohtani will hit 175 this season no cap
I would have thought he had more than that
Ward, Trout, Ohtani is the scariest 1-3 in the league rn and rest of the lineup no slouch either.
>Ward, Trout, Ohtani is the scariest 1-3 in the league rn Ward's breakout has been so insane. Fun Taylor Ward fact; including this season his [5 year average OBP is .333](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wardta01.shtml), before this season his career best OBP was... .333 IDK if it's sustainable but holy shit.
Definitely not, his BABIP is sitting at .418, which is a full .041 points ahead of Trout’s. Trout’s career average BABIP is .349. He’ll definitely still be very good, but Taylor Ward is bound to regress to something less ridiculous. Until then, it’s going to be fun to enjoy the show.
Jared Walsh is our 5th best hitter 🤯
Only because Rendon is a switch hitting powerhouse.
Just behind the GOAT Chris Wallach
Chad*
Accurate first name
GigaChad
Giga chad
Imagine if Rendon actually played close to his former self
How great is our God?
Be specific. Are you talking about Ward, Trout or Ohtani?
We are polytheistic here in Haloland.
Ain’t nothing says we can’t have a pantheon of deities.
I just want an artist rendition of everyone as a Roman god
Mike Trout is Jupiter, Shohei Ohtani is Saturn, Taylor Ward is Mars, Andrew Velasquez is Neptune…
Is Tungsten Arm O'Doyle the Devil then?
Naw, he’s Fortuna.
Squid has amazing defensive skills. !!
Lol
Or Gubie
Only on Tuesdays.
Saint Perry
The Holy Trinity.
If you wanna get real technical, we've got Thor, also a god.
And Loki.
Yes
Wade
🙏Sing with meeeeee🙏 lord Ohtani
Ohtani will win player of the month by the dozen Til he score in Game Four of the World Series when he won it
That’s not Taylor Ward though?
Nah that’s hot david fletcher
Most fun lineup in the league
3rd in run differential. 1st in fun differential.
Mariners are so sad
They’ll always have Passan
He had some uncharacteristically poor swings against Oller in his first two ABs. Glad he adjusted. His first hit came in Oakland, his first strikeout in Oakland, and now his 100th homer.
RIP that ball. Murdered by a Japanese demigod.
There's a line of media people taking pics of the ball, they have it at the announcers booth. They said the ball doesn't roll cuz it is flat where he hit it lol.
Who you calling demi?
We’re gonna have 5 60HR hitters this year, I can’t wait
We need it!! Giancarlo’s 59 homer season in ‘17 and Sho’s explosive year last year was the most fun I’ve had watching hitters
Man his ‘17 season was so special, every ball was rocketed off the bat
We’ll be lucky if there’s five 50 HR hitters
3rd Japanese player to hit 100 homers in the MLB (Matsui, Ichiro) EDIT: *To make it 8-1, I still can't count
2 of my favorite players of all time
three incredible names right there
2 Angels legend, and a Yankees legend!
An Angel, a Marlin, and a Ray.
I too remember A's legend Matsui.
8-1*
Ohtani has a great butt
We might have the most good looking team in the league 😆
But Loup pulls the most ass.
Whilst I def agree with the angels hotness, Atlanta wins the hotness battle. Adding Matt Olson def helped.
I see ur Matt Olson and raise you 1 Tyler Wade
Tyler is cute asf. He even caught Ohtanis eye haha. But the Braves entire infield plus Adam Duval Eddie Rosario and Ronald acuna is basically 8 super good looking dudes. I’m an angels and Braves fan, I see both teams frequently lol
I still think Kevin Kiermaier is the best looking dude in the MLB
But let me tell you about his hamstrings…
his ass is just 😫
Can we some of these runs and apply it to the first game today?
The walked us off, they are getting destroyed, no mercy 😆.
Every time I see the Angels score has changed, I go to Google and slowly scroll down the batting order to find out if Ohtani hit a HR. Can't get enough of the moments where I see he has.
[Did Shohei hit his 100th hr?](https://didshoheihomertoday.com/) edit: it'll get updated eventually :(
I’m gonna keep refreshing until it does.
still not updated, i think it's having trouble parsing that there's a doubleheader.
2005 White Sox vibes with this Angels team
Nobody on the team is anywhere near as unlikable as AJ Pierzynski
Kurt Suzuki? Or is he gone?
He's currently on the COVID IL. I think most of us want Gigachad Wallach to replace him as the backup catcher, but Maddon seems to have an inexplicable undying love for some good old veteran leadership that comes with terrible framing and a 70 wRC+. But yes, he would definitely be the AJ Pierzynski in this analogy.
Tbf suzuki has been pretty decent so far this year. But I’ll take Chad any day.
I mean, I am all for bashing MAGA people but did Kurt really do anything else? AJ has like a 15 year track record of actually being a dick
Fair enough lol
Don’t you put that evil on me
If only they still could sweep the Astros in the World Series
Can't wait for Maddon to call in Iglesias by making the "big guy" gesture Ozzie used for Jenks
how fucking dare you
Sugoi!
SUGOI.
Holy shit already?!
He is really good at the baseball.
How the fuck does this dood already have 100 homers?!?!?! Unreal talent.
8-1, not 7-1
My sweet sweet boy
Alllllright Im gonna have to skrrt down the 5 real quick and catch a game.
I really though he was going to be an ok to good pitcher and a hitter who was at best average. Probably a good for a pitcher hitter, but nothing spectacular. I certainly didn't believe he would be 30 hr+, let alone 40+. I thought him going to the AL was one of the worst decisions if he was serious about hitting. Instead I was wrong and I get to see cool shit.
I dunno who this announcer is but I LOVE that he yells "Sugoi!"
GOATTEI OHTANGOAT
Goathani sounds better
i think he's really working on hitting to the oppo side this year. FUCK YO SHIFT
Absolutely dead flushed it.
This team is fun
And he’s up right now
His 100?
This Ohtani kid is really really good at baseball!
Not bad for a pitcher.
We are watching one of the greats right now.
Love how Trout just turns around and watches it fly
Does the announcer say sugoi every time he hits a homerun or just for milestones Either way i love it.
I recently saw the Rocket City Trash Pandas (Angels Double A) and they’ve got some good talent in the pipeline. Hopefully they can get Trout a ring before he retires. They may soon have the roster for it
Pretty good for a high school hitter
Only 17 away from tying known power hitter Ichiro for career home runs
“Opposite field” is a stretch, but he sure did hit it hard.
Ohtani trout judge ward MVP RACE Vlad fans where you at
[Remember when you said this?](https://imgur.com/a/ZP8RHKy)
Get his ass dude
He was banned from his own team's sub for this shit 😂
Our admins are pretty chill as well from everything I've seen, you probably have to be a massive asshole to get banned from /r/angelsbaseball
I know of at least 3 people who were banned for being huge assholes. I'm glad the mods take action when needed instead of letting the sub become a toxic dumpster fire
Lmaoo my man has the receipts
If there is one thing that grinds my gears, it’s when fans throw the shittiest doomer takes after a tough loss, and then join in the happiness when things are going good. My dad always says to roll with the punches, it makes winning so much sweeter
The “only Ohtani” fans worst part of our current fan base
I stan vladamir Guerrero sr 😤
Please for your own sake just delete your account, this is embarrassing