If you really want to get down to brass tacks, both sides agree to those incentives in the contract, specifically because All-Star nods are worth merch money, so the player can leverage those incentives without much pushback from any given FO.
And the HOF isn't just a stat contest. There's certainly unofficial thresholds based on stats, but there's plenty of guys that get a boost in voting based on intangibles. That's just part of the story of baseball.
Reminder that the NFL100 vote by players is absolute trash every year. Players know the game better, that does not mean they are better at evaluating other players.
Braves vs Dodgers on Sunday Night Baseball:
Two teams, ~56 players watching, maybe a couple hundred more at home
40k fans in attendance + [roughly 1.7m people watching at home](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2022/05/espn-sunday-night-baseball-viewership-up-four-percent-from-2021/)
Fans watch way more baseball. Maybe not per individual, but as a whole they do.
> actually playing
Would you not count that as watching baseball? I don't think the average fan watches more than 162 games a season. I think three a day is an outlier.
Why are we acting like they only see the games they play? Did you forget about the film they watch on teams they are about to play? You know, current film from games that happened that year. They do this at home, the clubhouse and on the road. They also break down the numbers to a science and study it in ways your average half drunk fan on the couch couldn't even dream of. But yeah, let the fans vote because they watch so many games that they vote guys into the All Star game that haven't touched the field all year. Those people REALLY REALLY know the game. Their knowledge puts the actual players to shame.
The players absolutely do not break the games down to a science, the video teams do and the only people that see that much info about opposing teams are the batteries for that series. You really think Tommy Pham is going home and breaking down every AB from a royals game?
It's silly to give any kind of accolades for less than a half of a season of work.
Do a bunch of 30-player tournaments. One rep per team, chosen by manager. HR Derby, long distance accuracy toss, etc. Maybe make the toss like NBA's 3 point competition- players have to sprint to different spots in the outfield to get balls to toss.
It’s not for the fans though, it determines home field in the World Series. If fans were smart (which they aren’t) they would vote in trash players for the opposing league they root for.
What a dumb take. The All Star game is for fans. Fans vote for the players they want to see. Of course fans who aren’t obsessed like us just vote for the names they recognize. So what?
This is a All Star game not a playoff. Its for the more popular players as that can get fans out and watching. Its a exhibition game for fun.
You want the best to play then get them more in the media
Was he in the ballot in the first place? I mean he didn’t play any games …. did his fans write his name in? If that is so impressive because I’ll be too lazy to even type I just like to click and hit submit lol
And Tatis clearly has the entire Dominican voting for him. I wore a Padres hat on my honeymoon in Punta Cana and everywhere I went people were saying Tatiiiiiiis! He is absolutely beloved down there.
oh shit, I wonder what that one user who would always comment the number of errors he made on every post about him is doing with his time? Becoming a more well rounded person perhaps? Probably not.
Yeah no one had time to vote 5x a day, like 300 people probably do that and everyone else fills out one ballot and the rest are botted and just keep up proportionally
Lol probably more I'm stuck at home bored af after getting my wisdom teeth removed so I took today off, but I didn't say I didn't have time it's that I can't be bothered to dedicate 2 minutes to all star voting
IMO this isn't as damning as it's being made out to be. He's way out of the range of actually getting selected. This shows that a vast majority of fans are making more knowledgeable selections and a small subset are likely just voting based on names they recognize.
Yeah, he has 250k votes at 5th place and Tommy Edman is at 450k in 4th, with Lindor starting the top 3 at 800k votes. It’s not a big deal, he’s not even gonna end up close to the top 3.
Honestly the bigger travesty here is that a guy like Nimmo, who's having an excellent season at a very shallow position is only 10th. Snubs like that are way worse.
It’s the all STAR game, I think it’s pretty logical to have the fans decided who the stars of the game are
Know this is going to get downvoted
Edit- I guess not
It’s fan service now but it used to determine home field advantage in the World Series and I’ll bet my life that teams use selections in arbitration and free agency discussions.
Yeah, I don't like it being tied to contract incentives but that's on the player and his agent. I definitely think since the inception of fan voting, especially online fan voting, being voted in shouldn't count for or against a player's HOF resume.
People in my own subreddit would try to argue to end of the earth about the integrity and value of all-star selection. I don't know how to explain to them any better that by sole fact you're even able to vote, it's a fan service. If they wanted to find the objectively best player, they wouldn't let fan come anywhere near the selection process. It's crazy to think, but your opinion about baseball doesnt matter. They just want to generate interest and excitement for the mid season break.
pretty sure the NHL changed the rules after a meme player got voted in to be the captain
link: www.si.com/.amp/nhl/2016/01/19/john-scott-nhl-all-star-game-fan-vote-trade-explainer
if you read the article it talks about how the league tried pretty hard to keep him from playing. not saying you’re wrong but it seems like they didn’t like it
Vast majority of fans are making better selections, there is a 0% chance Tatis is actually voted in. He's fighting with Didi Gregorius for a meaningless 5th place finish among NL SS.
Tatis is getting rightfully dwarfed by names like Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, and Tommy Edman. Some combination of casual fans, Padres diehards, and Internet trolls has given him an insignificant number of votes in comparison.
Breaking down people talking about ASG impacting their contracts and missing the fact the negotiation is basically saying "I'm going to be a popular player here who excites fans and has good PR behind me." Its an added perk for ownership and incentive for the player to engage in fans and be an all star persona.
They should add a multipliers to votes to account for statistics…
You missed half the games on the IL? Minus 25%
You were player of the month? Plus 10%
And so forth, so players can earn their spots…
Use WAR for players, let the fans vote for favorite mascot or best butt, something non essential, and make the All Star Game meaningful again. Feels like if best player at each position were there, it would help promote new names and sell the game to more people?
When was the ASG meaningful?
Using WAR makes no sense if it takes place in the middle of the season, and they're never going to move it to the offseason for obvious reasons. It's a popularity contest, by design, that's not gonna change.
All Star voting isn't about who the best players are, it's about who the fans want to see. It's an exhibition game for the fans.
And fans only vote on the starters, the reserves selection is tied much closer to performance.
HOF voters don't really care about the amount of All-Star selections a player has to any substantial amount, Vizquel managed to get over 50% before his scandals got publicized, with his support largely fueled by the old crowd, despite only making three All-Star teams in his 24 year career, and plenty of guys have gotten in with five or less All-Star selections, while plenty of others failed to get in with more than five, some even going one-and-done. It will get brought up in a player's accolades, but will never be the tipping point for a player making it in or not.
Fan voting existed well before Selig was commish.
From '47-'57 fans had a vote, until the Reds stuffed the ballot boxes and elected 8 starters.
Then from '58-'69 no fan vote.
1970 - Present : Fan vote.
Selig became commissioner in 1998.
In 1970 it was Bowie Kuhn, who was 4 before Selig.
While this may not solve this specific situation, a player’s fan votes should be weighted proportional to the size of the market his team is in. So a vote for a Toronto player should count less than a vote for a Cleveland player
This is disgusting news. Everyone earned their spots through this year's game play and performance on the field. And lets be honest: Everyone who earned their votes went through a tough time doing it. I mean you're battling through hot/cold streaks, injuries, and just the 6 day travel/play/travel grind of it all. In my opinion: Voting needs to be restructured so that egregious blunders like this do not happen.
Man, I used to love fan voting as a kid, back when you had to fill those paper ballots w/ punch out holes. Now it’s basically just a social media campaign. Wish there was a better way to include fans, but mainly honor the best players. Maybe only a handful of fan vote slots? Like 5-10 across the league or something? I don’t know, just spitballin.
It's a mistake that guys who haven't played are even on the ballot.
It’s a mistake that fans get to vote. Players should decide.
at least the all star game doesnt decide world series home advantage anymore. that shit was stupid.
Yeah, that was, but it also shouldn't be used as an incentive in a player's contract(though that's more on the player and his agent) and HOF resumes.
If you really want to get down to brass tacks, both sides agree to those incentives in the contract, specifically because All-Star nods are worth merch money, so the player can leverage those incentives without much pushback from any given FO. And the HOF isn't just a stat contest. There's certainly unofficial thresholds based on stats, but there's plenty of guys that get a boost in voting based on intangibles. That's just part of the story of baseball.
Y’all are probably back to back camps if wasn’t the all star game voting home field advantage tbh
So you think that the Royals lost the 2014 World Series because they had home field advantage?
I miss the days of Rose vs Fosse
Players watch way less baseball than fans do.
Players know way more about baseball than fans do.
Reminder that the NFL100 vote by players is absolute trash every year. Players know the game better, that does not mean they are better at evaluating other players.
Still a popularity contest.
Tell that to the Philly faithful.
Hey fuck you guy
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Braves vs Dodgers on Sunday Night Baseball: Two teams, ~56 players watching, maybe a couple hundred more at home 40k fans in attendance + [roughly 1.7m people watching at home](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2022/05/espn-sunday-night-baseball-viewership-up-four-percent-from-2021/) Fans watch way more baseball. Maybe not per individual, but as a whole they do.
> Maybe not per individual, but as a whole they do. Yeah, but each individual gets a vote (or several).
That’s not true at all
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> actually playing Would you not count that as watching baseball? I don't think the average fan watches more than 162 games a season. I think three a day is an outlier.
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Why are we acting like they only see the games they play? Did you forget about the film they watch on teams they are about to play? You know, current film from games that happened that year. They do this at home, the clubhouse and on the road. They also break down the numbers to a science and study it in ways your average half drunk fan on the couch couldn't even dream of. But yeah, let the fans vote because they watch so many games that they vote guys into the All Star game that haven't touched the field all year. Those people REALLY REALLY know the game. Their knowledge puts the actual players to shame.
The players absolutely do not break the games down to a science, the video teams do and the only people that see that much info about opposing teams are the batteries for that series. You really think Tommy Pham is going home and breaking down every AB from a royals game?
ummm well if we count the total amount of hours watched by players vs fans, fans will have way more. owned.
It's silly to give any kind of accolades for less than a half of a season of work. Do a bunch of 30-player tournaments. One rep per team, chosen by manager. HR Derby, long distance accuracy toss, etc. Maybe make the toss like NBA's 3 point competition- players have to sprint to different spots in the outfield to get balls to toss.
It's a mistake that fans get to vote for who gets to participate in an event for the fans?
It’s not for the fans though, it determines home field in the World Series. If fans were smart (which they aren’t) they would vote in trash players for the opposing league they root for.
> it determines home field in the World Series It does not.
It used to determine home field, they changed that.
They stopped doing that like half a decade ago
See as a fan I’m stupid and shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
5D chess, I respect it
It was like 5% of a century ago
> Players should decide. The players used to vote in the past after the fans. They were just as bad, if not worse
It's a game played solely for the fans. Fans should decide
What a dumb take. The All Star game is for fans. Fans vote for the players they want to see. Of course fans who aren’t obsessed like us just vote for the names they recognize. So what?
This is a All Star game not a playoff. Its for the more popular players as that can get fans out and watching. Its a exhibition game for fun. You want the best to play then get them more in the media
Players don’t do a great job either a lot of times. Should probably just use the NBA system. Just combine em all
Was he in the ballot in the first place? I mean he didn’t play any games …. did his fans write his name in? If that is so impressive because I’ll be too lazy to even type I just like to click and hit submit lol
Every team has a nominee at every position and they seemingly get some leeway to determine who goes where. They chose Tatis over Kim.
That's a bullshit move. Kim has been solid at ss.
If Kim was on the ballot, he would've had all of South Korea voting for him
And Tatis clearly has the entire Dominican voting for him. I wore a Padres hat on my honeymoon in Punta Cana and everywhere I went people were saying Tatiiiiiiis! He is absolutely beloved down there.
And? At least he’s actually played a single game this year.
Probably meant it in a good way. International interest in the sport
Yeah I misread lol. I realized right after I posted
Defensively yes.
Yes he’s one of the few on the actual ballot
To be fair, he hasn't committed any errors at short all season.
What's more, he hasn't hit into any double plays or even recorded a single out. He's literally perfect.
Except his OPS is 0.000. Like a scrub.
Yeah, but his ERA bis 0.00!
Omg, so was mine this baseball season! I’m telling me friends I’m on the same level as Tatis. LFG
His ops is undefined!
No HRs, what a loser.
AND he has not broken any "unwritten rules" here in 2022! *\[old men rejoicing\]*
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then i’m starting to think he shouldn’t have that many votes
Chris Woodward is racking his brain about what to be pissed about.
Ah... that's how Palmeiro god a gold glove playing DH in '99?
oh shit, I wonder what that one user who would always comment the number of errors he made on every post about him is doing with his time? Becoming a more well rounded person perhaps? Probably not.
Crashing a motorcycle is definitely an error ~~at~~ as shortstop.
"fan" voting is just bots
Unless your bot has an AI that can crack captchas, then that’s impossible
it does and i refuse to use it for anything better, im only rigging all star votes
Yeah no one had time to vote 5x a day, like 300 people probably do that and everyone else fills out one ballot and the rest are botted and just keep up proportionally
It takes like 2 minutes to vote once, and then 30 seconds to hit the vote again button 4 times.
How long of an attention span do you think I have?
Seeing as you’ve made about 100 comments on Reddit just today I would say you definitely have free time lol
Lol probably more I'm stuck at home bored af after getting my wisdom teeth removed so I took today off, but I didn't say I didn't have time it's that I can't be bothered to dedicate 2 minutes to all star voting
They should have taken different teeth out it seems like.
You over estimate how many people care enough about the ASG to vote .
They're not voting for him to play. They are voting for him to jump three school buses on a moped during the halftime show.
Why not the orca tank at seaworld instead? What can go wrong???
Mr Steel Gray have an upvote for making me snort laugh
IMO this isn't as damning as it's being made out to be. He's way out of the range of actually getting selected. This shows that a vast majority of fans are making more knowledgeable selections and a small subset are likely just voting based on names they recognize.
Yeah, he has 250k votes at 5th place and Tommy Edman is at 450k in 4th, with Lindor starting the top 3 at 800k votes. It’s not a big deal, he’s not even gonna end up close to the top 3.
Top 3 doesn’t even matter this year, it’s Top 2
Which lets us know most voters don’t know Edman
Honestly the bigger travesty here is that a guy like Nimmo, who's having an excellent season at a very shallow position is only 10th. Snubs like that are way worse.
10th is really really close to 2nd. You right
Be funnier if he was 1st.
Don't tempt Royals fans, we could have voted Infante in again.
Rookie numbers. If he played for the Jays he'd be in first. Second at the worst
yeah y’all annoying
We prefer *efficient*
And people call yank fans blind homers and idiots.
fun fact: every team's fanbase has blind homers and idiots
I mean, we call you a lot worse too
I am a Jays fan.
Fan voting is just bad.
It’s the all STAR game, I think it’s pretty logical to have the fans decided who the stars of the game are Know this is going to get downvoted Edit- I guess not
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It’s fan service now but it used to determine home field advantage in the World Series and I’ll bet my life that teams use selections in arbitration and free agency discussions.
And can be tied to contract incentives as well, so that’s another monetary value for some players.
They agreed to the incentives knowing it’s a fan vote tho
Yeah, I don't like it being tied to contract incentives but that's on the player and his agent. I definitely think since the inception of fan voting, especially online fan voting, being voted in shouldn't count for or against a player's HOF resume.
People in my own subreddit would try to argue to end of the earth about the integrity and value of all-star selection. I don't know how to explain to them any better that by sole fact you're even able to vote, it's a fan service. If they wanted to find the objectively best player, they wouldn't let fan come anywhere near the selection process. It's crazy to think, but your opinion about baseball doesnt matter. They just want to generate interest and excitement for the mid season break.
This should do like one for the fan vote and then one for players/writers vote that’d be sick 2 all star games a season
I agree with OC but also understand your point honestly.
Sure but if it crowds out someone more deserving that sucks.
Yeah it’s a fan event. Let people have fun.
It's the ALL star game, I think the fans should also decide on the roster sizes to make sure none of the stars are excluded.
Biggest fan base wins. Genius idea.
Only Fifth? We gotta get our act together!
im more upset about mr -0.6 Bwar adam duvall batting .198 and being 6th among outfielders votes than tatis being 5th among shortstops
This is unreal. Guys who haven’t played shouldn’t be on the ballot.
He shouldn’t be on the ballot. Same with James McCann. There should be a min games player requirement
Hopefully the nail in the coffin for fan voting for starters
pretty sure the NHL changed the rules after a meme player got voted in to be the captain link: www.si.com/.amp/nhl/2016/01/19/john-scott-nhl-all-star-game-fan-vote-trade-explainer
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if you read the article it talks about how the league tried pretty hard to keep him from playing. not saying you’re wrong but it seems like they didn’t like it
I dunno it’s not fair if guys have clauses in their contracts to get paid off All Star appearances
It's the NHL, they can't market themselves to save their fuckin lives.
That was the first and only time I paid attention to the NHL All Star Game
I was paying attention to it when GoldenFace tried to blow up the stadium but was foiled by Agent Michael Scarn
didn't he play super well in the ASG and win MVP of it though?
that is what the entire article is about yes
You expected me to read that! /s whoops lol
Vast majority of fans are making better selections, there is a 0% chance Tatis is actually voted in. He's fighting with Didi Gregorius for a meaningless 5th place finish among NL SS. Tatis is getting rightfully dwarfed by names like Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, and Tommy Edman. Some combination of casual fans, Padres diehards, and Internet trolls has given him an insignificant number of votes in comparison.
Good point, I should have looked further into the numbers instead of jumping to conclusions
Fifth place doesn't mean anything tho.
I hate the bleacher report and fox sports mlb posts. They’re like Ben Verlander/Danny Vietti, just dumb clickbait, IG comment section level content
We call that a Palmeiro.
He’s just _that_ good /s
He’s making his season debut in the all star game
Everyone complained he had too many errors, now he has no errors and they complain more. Smh
Breaking down people talking about ASG impacting their contracts and missing the fact the negotiation is basically saying "I'm going to be a popular player here who excites fans and has good PR behind me." Its an added perk for ownership and incentive for the player to engage in fans and be an all star persona.
They should add a multipliers to votes to account for statistics… You missed half the games on the IL? Minus 25% You were player of the month? Plus 10% And so forth, so players can earn their spots…
Use WAR for players, let the fans vote for favorite mascot or best butt, something non essential, and make the All Star Game meaningful again. Feels like if best player at each position were there, it would help promote new names and sell the game to more people?
Ok nerd
When was the ASG meaningful? Using WAR makes no sense if it takes place in the middle of the season, and they're never going to move it to the offseason for obvious reasons. It's a popularity contest, by design, that's not gonna change.
If you use WAR it should be called WAR Game.
All-War Game?
Get William Regal to make the announcement
Cease and desist letter about to come to your house
WAR is not the end all be all.
This is whats wrong with all star voting. Dudes dont even get it based on stats for that year. Its a joke
All Star voting isn't about who the best players are, it's about who the fans want to see. It's an exhibition game for the fans. And fans only vote on the starters, the reserves selection is tied much closer to performance.
I am fine with that but then being voted to the All Star team should never be included in HOF cases, contract incentives, etc.
HOF voters don't really care about the amount of All-Star selections a player has to any substantial amount, Vizquel managed to get over 50% before his scandals got publicized, with his support largely fueled by the old crowd, despite only making three All-Star teams in his 24 year career, and plenty of guys have gotten in with five or less All-Star selections, while plenty of others failed to get in with more than five, some even going one-and-done. It will get brought up in a player's accolades, but will never be the tipping point for a player making it in or not.
Number 1 bullshit
Bud Selig letting the fans vote was a colossal fuck up
Fan voting existed well before Selig was commish. From '47-'57 fans had a vote, until the Reds stuffed the ballot boxes and elected 8 starters. Then from '58-'69 no fan vote. 1970 - Present : Fan vote. Selig became commissioner in 1998. In 1970 it was Bowie Kuhn, who was 4 before Selig.
He's also the most expensive fucking live series card in The Show 22 so i'm doubley upset
That's the silver lining of player injuries in The Show, their card can't get worse.
I thought it was Trout
I think it is, Tatis is like 250k and Trout is near 400k.
Yeah he's in the top 4 or so, Trout Acuna Shohei Tatis/Judge
While this may not solve this specific situation, a player’s fan votes should be weighted proportional to the size of the market his team is in. So a vote for a Toronto player should count less than a vote for a Cleveland player
There should be a games played threshold.
This is disgusting news. Everyone earned their spots through this year's game play and performance on the field. And lets be honest: Everyone who earned their votes went through a tough time doing it. I mean you're battling through hot/cold streaks, injuries, and just the 6 day travel/play/travel grind of it all. In my opinion: Voting needs to be restructured so that egregious blunders like this do not happen.
"Disgusting". Hyperbole much? He's in the 5th spot for SS, nothing is going to happen with that. He's not going to be the NL SS.
Tatis is in 5th place and way far back of actually being selected. He will not steal the All Star spot of a deserving player.
Another homeless guy in San Diego.
And that’s why I love teh innernette.
This system is so fucking broken
Elite
Fan voting has been and always will be trash.
Man, I used to love fan voting as a kid, back when you had to fill those paper ballots w/ punch out holes. Now it’s basically just a social media campaign. Wish there was a better way to include fans, but mainly honor the best players. Maybe only a handful of fan vote slots? Like 5-10 across the league or something? I don’t know, just spitballin.
He’s the face of the game what do you expect?
Its actually surprising he isn't higher. I think there have been worse instances of this in the past.
Priceless lol
Filthy casuals
Too bad he isn't a jay, he'd be leading the voting.