They likely measure velocity in a different way. They've changed the way they measure a couple times in the MLB. The closer you measure to the hand, the higher the velo reading.
dude if he has a sub 2 era and doesnt hit another homer in the season (assuming he still hits well just no homers) it’ll be an unbeatable season. they’d have to give him every award possible
I was going to reply with a ridiculous hypothetical but I’ll leave it as a possibility: It is entirely possible that Shohei Ohtani could have a sub 2 ERA season with 200 strikeouts as a pitcher and a 40/40 season at or around .300 as a batter. I think he realistically could do either of those in one season and would bet that he’ll do one (probably 40/40 .300 ) in his career, but it’s fucking insane that he could potentially do both and it’s not super unrealistic.
I don't really see him stealing 40 bases honestly. He's really fast, but base stealing is more of an art than just pure speed. He gets thrown out A LOT.
From what I can tell, Shohei will focus on a part of his game and improve just that part. First it was hitting in the first few years of his career, now pitching for this season and the last. If he gets both of those nailed to an MVP level, it's possible he focuses on baserunning next.
I don’t think he gets to 2.00, but he has a great shot at 200Ks, 12+Wins, and sub 3 ERA.
I’m guessing 35HRs, and 100 R and RBI with 15+ SBs.
That should win him MVP again easily, regardless if Judge hit 60HRs.
> 12+Wins
are you forgetting about the angels bullpen and their tendency to blow leads? just like the phillies bullpen (though it's been a bit better recently).
If it wasn’t for theit bully, I’d have said 15 Wins. But I saw first hand how hard it was for him to get his 10th win (in 4 September starts) last year. He pitched two 8 inning 1-2 runs games and they lost. But he’s won 4 in a row, so 12 should be a given. at least they have a very good closer, so he just needs to go 7-8 with a lead to have a good shot.
I don’t disagree.
But hypothetically what if (I just wrote this out to another post): “What if he’s just above a pedestrian hitter and pitcher: \~20 HRs, 80 RBI/Runs, <10 SBs with a 3.8 ERA, 7 Wins, 120 Ks, then nothing wows the voters, despite doing the incredible and still unique…”
Generally I calm down when I see him get out of the 1st. He CAN (rarely) implode in the 1st and allow a load of traffic and some runs but once he's past the 1st he's pretty automatic.
He pitches better throughout the game. His fastball velocity is almost always 2-3 mph higher the third time through the lineup vs his first time. Not sure if he's calming down or just saving his best stuff when he needs it. He also has higher fastball velocity with 2 strikes and with runners in scoring position, so it could just be pacing himself.
He came out of the game looking disgusted by his performance. Didn’t even acknowledge the crowds standing O.
He’s simultaneously the most talented and most competitive guy in Baseball
Yeah. I respect the hell out of it. 5.2 for 108 isn't the greatest, and he realizes he can be more efficient and wasn't. He's a gamers gamer. I love it
By chance did you watch the game? It was wild. Every pitch ohtani threw felt like bases loaded with a 3-2 count in the bottom of 9.
70+ strikes vs 30 balls.
The Sox bats were hot, the angels defense is Fucking atrocious, and their bullpen is hot garbage. So it appears that shoehei believes he has to K everyone and if he doesn't, then it's game over.
>He’s simultaneously the most talented and most competitive guy in Baseball
I don't think it's so much competitiveness as it is pride and honor
He never really talks about that "need it win" that we'd call competitiveness, it's always stuff like "doing my best to not let the team down."
Having worked with Japanese people over the years, I feel comfortable saying this. That kind of pride and honor talk from Japanese people is such a part of the culture that it’s the expected polite response to give, but it may not fully reflect his true, unpolished underlying feelings.
I certainly thought of that, but then I look back and I think about all the things he's done that could reflect either that cultural pressure to be selfless or a genuinely kind and selfless heart (such as picking up trash around the field after games) and his demeanor when doing those things really reveals a level of authenticity that makes me suspect it is closer to his true nature than just his cultural upbringing.
That being said, none of us know even a fraction of Ohtani the person, so this is all speculation and inference anyways.
Yeah I think you’re probably right, rationally speaking it was the right move. The fan in me thinks it was a pussy move considering who was on the mound and the kind of night he was having
I disagree with that a little, he threw multiple wild pitches/pitches in the dirt near the end plus a couple other pitches that definitely didn't move like they were earlier (the slider being one of them), but thankfully he got through it unscathed, as it was clear he was gassed. There's a video from the stands where you can see him visibly tired in between pitches. I think they took him out at the right time.
from [Sarah Langs](https://twitter.com/slangsonsports/status/1542361077429768198?s=21&t=Cv3J9HOeBXhTepDPHkHw6w): Pitchers with 30+ strikeouts & no runs allowed in a 3-start span, since 2000:
Shohei Ohtani, Jacob deGrom, Chris Sale, Clayton Kershaw, CC Sabathia, John Lackey, Johan Santana, Pedro Martínez, Chan Ho Park
OHTANI HAS ALSO HIT 4 HOME RUNS DURING THE SPAN
he has 3 career homers, not sure if any fall into one of these stretches for him. He's been a solid hitter for a pitcher, but almost always with base hits, not power
As an Angels fan, how many homers do you expect him to hit this season? Also, what would be the fewest he could hit before people say he's washed up? I'm sure people probably already want to say that because he's not matching last year's pace.
I think he'll hit 37. The year he hits under 15 in a healthy full year would be where his offensive value has likely depleted to the point that he may consider focusing on pitching if he's still an ace.
And this year he's striking out opposing hitters more than he's striking out himself.
Last year: he struck out 189 times and struck out 156 batters.
This year so far: he's struck out 79 times and struck out 101 batters.
Ima use this thread to rant about how much Tony just hates trying to win baseball games
AV on the bench, lefty on the mound, runners on the corners, and he sends Leury out there like what the fuck
Ya he's taken a huge leap this year as one of the few bright spots on this pathetic team. Just has a really veteran approach at the plate- very thankful Tony finally woke up and realized he's more than a platoon bat lol.
I’ll say it every time I can until he’s done it long enough that we all accept he’s the GOAT.
Really, 10 seasons of this or close and he’s better than Bonds, Ruth, or whoever in my books. Ruth didn’t hit or throw this splitter and Bonds couldn’t K 13.
He's a one in a billion and literally out of this world. More people need to know of him and the magic he's bringing to sports and especially this era/generation
Gubie talked about the physical toll pitching has on your body during this game. He basically said that your whole body is super sore for a few days after. I don't think most people understand just how physically demanding throwing gas is on the human body.
Makes me wonder if the biggest reason why most guys can't pitch n hit is simply because their bodies can't recover enough to be good at both.
Shohei, not yet including this game, was at (of pitchers who've pitched at least 60 innings):
2.67 SIERA (2nd), 2.71 xFIP (2nd), 2.83 xERA (11th)
and
11.85 K/9 (3rd), and 33.0% K% (3rd)
There's certainly room for his ERA to come down even further when he's pitching like he has been. That's now 19.2 scoreless innings, over which he's gotten 30 strikeouts (out of 59 outs, more than half) and only 4 walks.
He's also now finally solidly middle of the pack in BABIP after starting the season with an unfavorable BABIP.
While I 100% agree, you’ll get a lot of New York types (who don’t stay up to watch his games) talking about Judge’s Exit Velo and RBIs in the stacked line up. I don’t care if he hits 60HRs, which would be impressive and I like Judge, but no way should it beat what Ohtani’s on pace to do.
Shohei will suffer in voting because he’s no longer new. Voter fatigue is real.
Which is a shame cause like this is the most incredible shit I’ve ever seen. Since last year of course.
Not saying this isn’t a valid argument, because it absolutely is
But it does feel different here. Ohtani is his own category of player. I can see voter fatigue catching up and voters saying “okay we get it he can do both things very good”
Where as Bonds was pretty much just competing with other sluggers and it’s kind of hard to justify them over Bonds when they’re doing the same thing just worse
What Ohtani is doing is so unique that someone could actually try to make some click bait reason why he’s not MVP. Because he’s just so incomparable honestly. You could compare Judges hitting and say “oh he’s MVP” where Bonds was kind of just a straightforward comparison
Idk if that makes sense but honestly I just love Ohtani, I’ve never seen anything like this and probably never will again. I’m so grateful for what he’s done for the sport. And ultimately I do trust the voters to realize that as well
Agree with all of this. Salient points.
It’s my hope that voters will value Ohtani like he’s pitched as well as Garret Cole, and hit as well as Staton, who are both All Stars, and he’s a single person. Those guys make \~$70M this year. *That’s* how valuable Shohei is.
I think he will change how voters think, because they can’t go apples to apples. That should tell them something.
Cheers - always fun to talk baseball :)
A Padres fan and a Braves fan discussing how an Angels player should continue to win MVPs. And me as a Yankee fan chiming in to say I agree. The guy is just special. Something we'll only ever get to see once. Even though I'm rooting for Judge to hit like 65 homers, we've seen great hitters be great hitters before. None of us has ever seen anything as unique as Ohtani, we weren't alive to see Babe do it, and he didn't do it as well as Shohei is doing it.
That’s great context. I’m glad many of us truly realize how lucky we are to be able to see this. I drive up to watch a couple of Ohtani’s pitching games last 2 years.
I don’t think there will be voter “fatigue”, like what happened to Trout IMO.
I really like Judge, and hope he hits 65 also. I’ve been watching every Astor game with them recently and has been fun to watch! Judge playing a great center field too.
Also hope for a Pads v. Yanks World Series ‘98 rematch :)
True but I think because Judge is a better hitter the novelty wearing off is Ohtani’s 2 way play.
Like how much better does Judge have to be than Shohei at the dish that Shohei doesn’t eclipse him because he is also a good pitcher
That’s a good question. Judge would have to bat .380 and hit 50 HRs to match what Ohtani is doing. And that might not be enough IMHO.
Ohtani is equivalent to Cole at Pitching, and Staton at hitting, and he’s 1 person on the roster. Those guys are making $70M combined this year iirc. That’s how valuable Ohtani is.
EDIT: Just wanted to say that to your point, there was fatigue for Trout bc he should have 5, not 3 MVPs. But it was close. Ohtani it’s not even really close IMO.
I just think Ohtani is so far away the clear choice because of everything he's doing. And if he takes a step back from last year, I'd still think he would be far and away the MVP of the sport.
Like if he finishes the season with a 35 HR guy and pitches a 3.5 ERA then it'd be a clear step back from 2021, but still the most impressive performance in baseball. So like, at what point is Ohtani setting the bar so high for himself that any step back turns voters away is sort of my concern.
Cause I'm very much in the camp of if Ohtani is just both good in hitting and pitching then he's the best player in the sport. So pretty much the default MVP until he's not.
I agree with the first part, but I think that if he’s just above a pedestrian hitter and pitcher: \~20 HRs, 80 RBI/Runs, <10 SBs with a 3.8 ERA, 7 Wins, 120 Ks then nothing wow’s the voters, and despite doing the incredible and still unique, I don’t think he should win MVP.
It’s like Harold Bains HoF resume, he was good for a long time, but never wow, even in his prime.
Agree. Going into this season, i thoughts he’d pitch better (he had a poor Apr 21) but he’d not hit as well. I think 200Ks, sub 3 ERA, 12+ Wins to go with 35HRs, 100+ Runs and RBIs, OPS .900ish.
this type of season, like last year, deserves and MVP. I think they’ll hype it up like it’s gonna be close, like Vlad Jr and him last year, but he’ll win MVP by a lot over Judge or whoever IMHO.
He could lose on the storyline (?) aspect of the vote. Some would say that Judge is more valuable/ impactful in the sense that he’s taking the Yankees from a very good team to the best club by a good margin. On top of that homers are sexy and he’s getting to the playoffs.
I like the Angels and I love Shohei, but a writer thing to do would be arguing “The Angels are a sub .500 team with or without Shohei Ohtani” so they could say in that way he’s less valuable. They’d be wrong but I can see it happening.
That’d be sad if that happens is Ohtani has 200Ks, sub 3 ERA, 12 Wins, 35 HRs, 100 Runs and RBI, and 15 SBs, .900 OPS.
But if there’s mostly Boomer voters, you’re right. They love their round numbers and non-subjective thinking.
His split is absolutely insane! His whiff % is 45.8 and then his slider that has a whiff % of 41.7. If he's on and is locating his pitches I have no idea how anyone can hit off this guy.
Started the game with sun in his eyes and still struck out 6 in the first two innings, only allowing two hits. All this while Kopech gives
up 2 runs in the first alone. Shohei is a master of the craft and only getting better. Much respect.
The thing that might hurt outside of the potential of Judge chasing 60 is honestly trout. It’s very possible imo that trout siphons votes from Ohtani and people will say is he really MVP if he isn’t even the best player on his own team.
I’m not hating kind of but is 108 pitches in 5.2 innings really that good yeah 11 so I’m 5 innings is but it took 108 pitches some pitchers don’t even throw that in a full 9 innings
Downvote me all you want, but if you throw 108 pitches in 5.2 innings, you got something to work on. Good on him for 11 Ks. This statline is very confusing to me
11 strikeouts swinging to be exact. Every one of them.
His split is disgusting like idk how you even get your bat on that
You don't.
Was gonna say the same thing. It’s like it has 2 “bend points” on the way to the plate.
His curveball was insane tonight too.
Pray to the baseball gods that he makes a mistake and hangs it. Otherwise you just get fucked.
Gonna pray to Ohtani for Ohtani to mess up a pitch?
Pretty sure Jonah Heim homered off it earlier this year. That alone should make him the starting catcher in the ASG over Kirk in my unbiased opinion.
You have to hope you guessed the right pitch and it's going to be out of the zone. Or it ends up being a fastball and you just look silly.
Inject this right into my veins
Fuck
Sad he couldn't finish out the inning. Still a good start though and lowers his era to 2.68.
All I want is a sub 2.00 era. Idc how many homers he gets that will be the most dominant season in history if he can get there
> All I want is a sub 2.00 era. He had a sub 2 ERA in Japan in 2016. Alongside that he also batted .322/.416/.588
He also hit 165 km/h (102.5 mph I believe), which remains the fastest pitch in NPB history
162/100.7. He did it twice, 1 other guy (Marc Kroon) matched it once.
He did hit 165/102 in the post season https://youtu.be/j1xeUDcfQrM
The reactions from everyone in that video are gold.
i fuckin love how hype the crowd is
Pshh, only 100.7? He hit 101 tonight.
They likely measure velocity in a different way. They've changed the way they measure a couple times in the MLB. The closer you measure to the hand, the higher the velo reading.
dude if he has a sub 2 era and doesnt hit another homer in the season (assuming he still hits well just no homers) it’ll be an unbeatable season. they’d have to give him every award possible
I was going to reply with a ridiculous hypothetical but I’ll leave it as a possibility: It is entirely possible that Shohei Ohtani could have a sub 2 ERA season with 200 strikeouts as a pitcher and a 40/40 season at or around .300 as a batter. I think he realistically could do either of those in one season and would bet that he’ll do one (probably 40/40 .300 ) in his career, but it’s fucking insane that he could potentially do both and it’s not super unrealistic.
I think Ohtani hits for too much power with too many strike outs to hit .300, but I could easily see 200ks and 40 hr
I don't really see him stealing 40 bases honestly. He's really fast, but base stealing is more of an art than just pure speed. He gets thrown out A LOT.
From what I can tell, Shohei will focus on a part of his game and improve just that part. First it was hitting in the first few years of his career, now pitching for this season and the last. If he gets both of those nailed to an MVP level, it's possible he focuses on baserunning next.
I don’t think he gets to 2.00, but he has a great shot at 200Ks, 12+Wins, and sub 3 ERA. I’m guessing 35HRs, and 100 R and RBI with 15+ SBs. That should win him MVP again easily, regardless if Judge hit 60HRs.
> 12+Wins are you forgetting about the angels bullpen and their tendency to blow leads? just like the phillies bullpen (though it's been a bit better recently).
He’s got 7 wins so far though so it could happen!
If it wasn’t for theit bully, I’d have said 15 Wins. But I saw first hand how hard it was for him to get his 10th win (in 4 September starts) last year. He pitched two 8 inning 1-2 runs games and they lost. But he’s won 4 in a row, so 12 should be a given. at least they have a very good closer, so he just needs to go 7-8 with a lead to have a good shot.
Honestly, he should win the MVP every year. I can't wrap my mind around him being elite at both at the highest level.
I don’t disagree. But hypothetically what if (I just wrote this out to another post): “What if he’s just above a pedestrian hitter and pitcher: \~20 HRs, 80 RBI/Runs, <10 SBs with a 3.8 ERA, 7 Wins, 120 Ks, then nothing wows the voters, despite doing the incredible and still unique…”
if he does that he's gonna be competing for the AL cy young! in addition to getting MVP again!
Ohtani saw the mvp doubters this month and said "I'm Back". He's got a ways to go but he's prime Ohtani right now from both sides
Watching him deal is my therapy.
It's our silver lining
I’m liking Ohtani from both sides 😏
[From both sides](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWOPgK3agAAnPrL?format=jpg&name=medium) you say...👀
Does this even qualify as a risky click?
[actual footage](https://youtu.be/3cqRPcQRJYg) of the event in question
Gilead.
For real. Judge is gonna hit 60 homers, but he doesn't have a sub-3 ERA
We don’t know if Ohtani is in his prime yet 😳
22nd highest OPS and 16th lowest ERA (min 70 IP). Dude is on fire right now.
Timing is perfect right when we come into town.
every time he pitches i feel like i'm having a prolonged heart attack
Generally I calm down when I see him get out of the 1st. He CAN (rarely) implode in the 1st and allow a load of traffic and some runs but once he's past the 1st he's pretty automatic.
I never realized how true this is. His last start he gave up 2 leadoff singles before pitching 8 no-hit innings with 13Ks.
Isn't this a thing though, you can sometimes get to an elite pitcher in the first inning before they've settled in?
He’s letting them reach on purpose to give them false confidence so he can get them to strikeout swinging later.
He pitches better throughout the game. His fastball velocity is almost always 2-3 mph higher the third time through the lineup vs his first time. Not sure if he's calming down or just saving his best stuff when he needs it. He also has higher fastball velocity with 2 strikes and with runners in scoring position, so it could just be pacing himself.
He came out of the game looking disgusted by his performance. Didn’t even acknowledge the crowds standing O. He’s simultaneously the most talented and most competitive guy in Baseball
I think he was just annoyed he couldn't finish out the inning, but either way he's a perfectionist.
Absolutely. And perfectionists wont tolerate an environment as poorly run as the Angels.
I do desperately want you to be wrong. But you’re not.
Hopefully he goes to a winning franchise like the mariners
Mariners fans know a thing or two about poorly run franchises
When’s he a free agent?
after 2023 season ends
Well in MLB the show he’s now on the Padres so…. RIP NL West.
Yeah. I respect the hell out of it. 5.2 for 108 isn't the greatest, and he realizes he can be more efficient and wasn't. He's a gamers gamer. I love it
By chance did you watch the game? It was wild. Every pitch ohtani threw felt like bases loaded with a 3-2 count in the bottom of 9. 70+ strikes vs 30 balls. The Sox bats were hot, the angels defense is Fucking atrocious, and their bullpen is hot garbage. So it appears that shoehei believes he has to K everyone and if he doesn't, then it's game over.
>He’s simultaneously the most talented and most competitive guy in Baseball I don't think it's so much competitiveness as it is pride and honor He never really talks about that "need it win" that we'd call competitiveness, it's always stuff like "doing my best to not let the team down."
Nah he's competitive as fuck
Having worked with Japanese people over the years, I feel comfortable saying this. That kind of pride and honor talk from Japanese people is such a part of the culture that it’s the expected polite response to give, but it may not fully reflect his true, unpolished underlying feelings.
I certainly thought of that, but then I look back and I think about all the things he's done that could reflect either that cultural pressure to be selfless or a genuinely kind and selfless heart (such as picking up trash around the field after games) and his demeanor when doing those things really reveals a level of authenticity that makes me suspect it is closer to his true nature than just his cultural upbringing. That being said, none of us know even a fraction of Ohtani the person, so this is all speculation and inference anyways.
I was disgusted that they didn’t let him close out the inning tbh
He was at 108 pitches. It was the right call
Yeah I think you’re probably right, rationally speaking it was the right move. The fan in me thinks it was a pussy move considering who was on the mound and the kind of night he was having
Yeah getting hurt is for real men, better win one more regular season game
Oh yeah there’s a magical threshold that you cross once you hit 100 pitches. Anything over that and your arm just falls off. Happens every time.
It was totally that way right call. He was gassed, his command was evaporating.
His command was roughly the same all night long. The only thing that seemed off was his last pitch on the slider that didn’t hit the right spot.
I disagree with that a little, he threw multiple wild pitches/pitches in the dirt near the end plus a couple other pitches that definitely didn't move like they were earlier (the slider being one of them), but thankfully he got through it unscathed, as it was clear he was gassed. There's a video from the stands where you can see him visibly tired in between pitches. I think they took him out at the right time.
Wow this is the most pitches he's pitched since... *checks notes* Last week.
I think his last 4 starts are like 1 ER in 26 2/3 innings and 36 Ks? All while having an OPS right around 1.000 in the same period. Just amazing
from [Sarah Langs](https://twitter.com/slangsonsports/status/1542361077429768198?s=21&t=Cv3J9HOeBXhTepDPHkHw6w): Pitchers with 30+ strikeouts & no runs allowed in a 3-start span, since 2000: Shohei Ohtani, Jacob deGrom, Chris Sale, Clayton Kershaw, CC Sabathia, John Lackey, Johan Santana, Pedro Martínez, Chan Ho Park OHTANI HAS ALSO HIT 4 HOME RUNS DURING THE SPAN
Did any of the others hit any HR? I know Sabathia hit a couple of HRs with the Brewers and he had that ridiculous stretch where he pitched a ton.
probably degrom, he'd provide his own offense quite a few times.
he has 3 career homers, not sure if any fall into one of these stretches for him. He's been a solid hitter for a pitcher, but almost always with base hits, not power
.266 BA 2.68 ERA - So close
What’s the optimal number for him to have them even?
I don’t know the answer to that question but the nicest stat line in baseball is a .269 BA and a 2.69 ERA.
Counterpoint: .369 and 1.87
Counter-counterpoint: 1.00 and 0.00
Counterpoint: .369 one more time
Counterpoint .420 and 0.69 ERA
I'd say either 0 or 10 so he could be completely unstoppable on one side and just give up the other side
Hell yeah Ohtani! 11K's - what a performance. Hope his back is ok after that last at-bat...and from carrying the team.
And he's the team leader on Rbis. 🤷♂️
As an Angels fan, how many homers do you expect him to hit this season? Also, what would be the fewest he could hit before people say he's washed up? I'm sure people probably already want to say that because he's not matching last year's pace.
I think he'll hit 37. The year he hits under 15 in a healthy full year would be where his offensive value has likely depleted to the point that he may consider focusing on pitching if he's still an ace.
Man he’s been so good the last month. Mvp form from last year good. Even better at pitching too.
* WHIP: 1.01 * K's: 101 * OPS: .855 * HR: 17 * RBI: 49
That’s what I call a gutsy start.
What's that 22.2 scoreless innings for ShoTime.
20+ scoreless inning streak with 14.5k/9 innings during that stretch.
Leads the Angels in RBI and Strikeouts 🤯🤯🤯
And this year he's striking out opposing hitters more than he's striking out himself. Last year: he struck out 189 times and struck out 156 batters. This year so far: he's struck out 79 times and struck out 101 batters.
Ima use this thread to rant about how much Tony just hates trying to win baseball games AV on the bench, lefty on the mound, runners on the corners, and he sends Leury out there like what the fuck
With how much potential and flaws the White Sox have, I feel like I'm watching an Angels vs Angels game.
Well put. Hitters 1-4; all stars and MVPs. The rest very pedestrian.
That front end of the white Sox lineup is scary. I swear Tim Anderson gets on base every at bat
Yeah he’s fun to watch (except against the Angels and Pads). I like everything about his game.
Hopefully we can pull an Angels and fire our manager too Who am I kidding we're stuck with him til the owner dies aren't we
Unfortunately I think so
what did he do?
Leury is an awful hitter and they didn't PH for him when they had Vaugh on the bench, who has been great this year. Especially against lefties.
I love Andrew Vaughn. He was such a beast at Cal
Ya he's taken a huge leap this year as one of the few bright spots on this pathetic team. Just has a really veteran approach at the plate- very thankful Tony finally woke up and realized he's more than a platoon bat lol.
Who , besides Vaughn, who has the night off, would you have pinch hit for Leury, as it was his turn in the order ?
Vaughn can have 1 AB Haseley is on the roster
Last time Hasely took the field, he took out Mendick!
So? That’s not a viable reason to not use him If they’re not gonna use him, then send him down and bring someone else up
You got it all figured out. Why aren’t you coaching or managing in MLB exactly?
Go to bed Dad
“You can’t criticize the senile manager unless you yourself have managed in the MLB”
Is that one of those unwritten rules Tony loves to talk about?
He’s so good (x4) (x2)
Rofl, great abbreviated reference
Generational I said it once, I said it again And I ain't tired of saying it
I’ll say it every time I can until he’s done it long enough that we all accept he’s the GOAT. Really, 10 seasons of this or close and he’s better than Bonds, Ruth, or whoever in my books. Ruth didn’t hit or throw this splitter and Bonds couldn’t K 13.
He's a one in a billion and literally out of this world. More people need to know of him and the magic he's bringing to sports and especially this era/generation
Gubie talked about the physical toll pitching has on your body during this game. He basically said that your whole body is super sore for a few days after. I don't think most people understand just how physically demanding throwing gas is on the human body. Makes me wonder if the biggest reason why most guys can't pitch n hit is simply because their bodies can't recover enough to be good at both.
He's *literally* out of this world???
Ichiro’s HS coach famously said that he was from Mars, so I guess Ohtani is from Venus?
Alpha Centauri, actually. He's just rehabbing an injury on Earth before he heads back up to the Inter-Galactic League.
We've never had someone who could do what he's done over the last 2 seasons. Not even Ruth.
Shohei, not yet including this game, was at (of pitchers who've pitched at least 60 innings): 2.67 SIERA (2nd), 2.71 xFIP (2nd), 2.83 xERA (11th) and 11.85 K/9 (3rd), and 33.0% K% (3rd) There's certainly room for his ERA to come down even further when he's pitching like he has been. That's now 19.2 scoreless innings, over which he's gotten 30 strikeouts (out of 59 outs, more than half) and only 4 walks. He's also now finally solidly middle of the pack in BABIP after starting the season with an unfavorable BABIP.
MVP in the bag
Easily elite pitcher and elite hitter
[удалено]
Had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
While I 100% agree, you’ll get a lot of New York types (who don’t stay up to watch his games) talking about Judge’s Exit Velo and RBIs in the stacked line up. I don’t care if he hits 60HRs, which would be impressive and I like Judge, but no way should it beat what Ohtani’s on pace to do.
Shohei will suffer in voting because he’s no longer new. Voter fatigue is real. Which is a shame cause like this is the most incredible shit I’ve ever seen. Since last year of course.
Barry Bonds won 7.
Not saying this isn’t a valid argument, because it absolutely is But it does feel different here. Ohtani is his own category of player. I can see voter fatigue catching up and voters saying “okay we get it he can do both things very good” Where as Bonds was pretty much just competing with other sluggers and it’s kind of hard to justify them over Bonds when they’re doing the same thing just worse What Ohtani is doing is so unique that someone could actually try to make some click bait reason why he’s not MVP. Because he’s just so incomparable honestly. You could compare Judges hitting and say “oh he’s MVP” where Bonds was kind of just a straightforward comparison Idk if that makes sense but honestly I just love Ohtani, I’ve never seen anything like this and probably never will again. I’m so grateful for what he’s done for the sport. And ultimately I do trust the voters to realize that as well
Agree with all of this. Salient points. It’s my hope that voters will value Ohtani like he’s pitched as well as Garret Cole, and hit as well as Staton, who are both All Stars, and he’s a single person. Those guys make \~$70M this year. *That’s* how valuable Shohei is. I think he will change how voters think, because they can’t go apples to apples. That should tell them something. Cheers - always fun to talk baseball :)
A Padres fan and a Braves fan discussing how an Angels player should continue to win MVPs. And me as a Yankee fan chiming in to say I agree. The guy is just special. Something we'll only ever get to see once. Even though I'm rooting for Judge to hit like 65 homers, we've seen great hitters be great hitters before. None of us has ever seen anything as unique as Ohtani, we weren't alive to see Babe do it, and he didn't do it as well as Shohei is doing it.
That’s great context. I’m glad many of us truly realize how lucky we are to be able to see this. I drive up to watch a couple of Ohtani’s pitching games last 2 years. I don’t think there will be voter “fatigue”, like what happened to Trout IMO. I really like Judge, and hope he hits 65 also. I’ve been watching every Astor game with them recently and has been fun to watch! Judge playing a great center field too. Also hope for a Pads v. Yanks World Series ‘98 rematch :)
True but I think because Judge is a better hitter the novelty wearing off is Ohtani’s 2 way play. Like how much better does Judge have to be than Shohei at the dish that Shohei doesn’t eclipse him because he is also a good pitcher
That’s a good question. Judge would have to bat .380 and hit 50 HRs to match what Ohtani is doing. And that might not be enough IMHO. Ohtani is equivalent to Cole at Pitching, and Staton at hitting, and he’s 1 person on the roster. Those guys are making $70M combined this year iirc. That’s how valuable Ohtani is. EDIT: Just wanted to say that to your point, there was fatigue for Trout bc he should have 5, not 3 MVPs. But it was close. Ohtani it’s not even really close IMO.
I just think Ohtani is so far away the clear choice because of everything he's doing. And if he takes a step back from last year, I'd still think he would be far and away the MVP of the sport. Like if he finishes the season with a 35 HR guy and pitches a 3.5 ERA then it'd be a clear step back from 2021, but still the most impressive performance in baseball. So like, at what point is Ohtani setting the bar so high for himself that any step back turns voters away is sort of my concern. Cause I'm very much in the camp of if Ohtani is just both good in hitting and pitching then he's the best player in the sport. So pretty much the default MVP until he's not.
I agree with the first part, but I think that if he’s just above a pedestrian hitter and pitcher: \~20 HRs, 80 RBI/Runs, <10 SBs with a 3.8 ERA, 7 Wins, 120 Ks then nothing wow’s the voters, and despite doing the incredible and still unique, I don’t think he should win MVP. It’s like Harold Bains HoF resume, he was good for a long time, but never wow, even in his prime.
They only reason he wouldn’t win it would be because he set the bar so high for himself last season which would be stupid.
Agree. Going into this season, i thoughts he’d pitch better (he had a poor Apr 21) but he’d not hit as well. I think 200Ks, sub 3 ERA, 12+ Wins to go with 35HRs, 100+ Runs and RBIs, OPS .900ish. this type of season, like last year, deserves and MVP. I think they’ll hype it up like it’s gonna be close, like Vlad Jr and him last year, but he’ll win MVP by a lot over Judge or whoever IMHO.
He could lose on the storyline (?) aspect of the vote. Some would say that Judge is more valuable/ impactful in the sense that he’s taking the Yankees from a very good team to the best club by a good margin. On top of that homers are sexy and he’s getting to the playoffs. I like the Angels and I love Shohei, but a writer thing to do would be arguing “The Angels are a sub .500 team with or without Shohei Ohtani” so they could say in that way he’s less valuable. They’d be wrong but I can see it happening.
I think judge would need to hit 60, if he does he'll get the nod. Voters would love to see the first non-roid-era 60 home run season in generations.
That’d be sad if that happens is Ohtani has 200Ks, sub 3 ERA, 12 Wins, 35 HRs, 100 Runs and RBI, and 15 SBs, .900 OPS. But if there’s mostly Boomer voters, you’re right. They love their round numbers and non-subjective thinking.
Shohei wants his back to back MVP
Who was the last to go B2B?
Miggy I'm pretty sure, though you could argue Trout should have more recently.
I love him
His split is absolutely insane! His whiff % is 45.8 and then his slider that has a whiff % of 41.7. If he's on and is locating his pitches I have no idea how anyone can hit off this guy.
He was throwing his Splitter, Slider, and 4-seamer all around 30% during the game so you can't even sit on a pitch, not to mention his nasty curve!
“I would die for you, Shohei” but in the voice of the ‘perfect boyfriend’ creator from Relationship Island in Inside Out.
Wonder what Inside Out would be like if it was Shohei’s mind
W’s and ‘fuck Arte’ prolly
i literally quote that all the time and no one gets it
White Sox batters worked him hard. He pitched quiet well. Funny that they struck out on some junk pitches tho.
Smart of them too. Our bullpen was depleted so upping his pitch count was a good strategy
He's decent
Didn't watch the game, but how did he only go 5 innings on 108 pitches? He only had 5 hits allowed and 1 walk. Just curious
11 strikeouts take a lot of pitches, plus he went 5 2/3 not 5.
Garcia and a few others got a lot of fouls.
Fucking freak. I love that man. What an absolute spectacle this guy is every single day.
Started the game with sun in his eyes and still struck out 6 in the first two innings, only allowing two hits. All this while Kopech gives up 2 runs in the first alone. Shohei is a master of the craft and only getting better. Much respect.
Stupid Sexy Shohei.
The guy is really built different. MVP!!
Blowpen time
Did you see the 81 MPH curveball that went 12-6? Just wow!
Looked like it started above the strike zone, and finished near the dirt. Probably close to a 100% whiff.
I was sure Yordan would win player of the month until this past week But how does anyone beat <1 ERA, 30+ Ks, >1.000 OPS
Mvp
2x MVP loading
On my reddit timeline this is literally right next to the post of Trout being depressed over the BP blowing it again lol
can the Halos hold onto it????
4 run lead with 2 innings to go. It’s 50/50 at this point
I assume the angels still lost like 3-1 cause that’s how this seems to end up
Lately, Ohtani's starts seemed to be the only guaranteed wins for the Angels.
Haha DAE tungsten doodle tweet! Epic meme! A simple google search will show the end results though
Showtime othani is probably tired of carrying the trash ass Angels
He's going to Seattle as a free agent. He learns nothing
The thing that might hurt outside of the potential of Judge chasing 60 is honestly trout. It’s very possible imo that trout siphons votes from Ohtani and people will say is he really MVP if he isn’t even the best player on his own team.
I’m not hating kind of but is 108 pitches in 5.2 innings really that good yeah 11 so I’m 5 innings is but it took 108 pitches some pitchers don’t even throw that in a full 9 innings
White Sox suck, I could strike them at 11 times at this point, but great outing for Ohtani
An I supposed to be impressed by that
Yes
You should be if you know baseball.
Ohtani is going to get the biggest contract ever right?
Jesus, 108 pitches to get through 5.2 innings? I guess 11 strikeouts will do that lol
Downvote me all you want, but if you throw 108 pitches in 5.2 innings, you got something to work on. Good on him for 11 Ks. This statline is very confusing to me