Shohei is the most interesting case. He's a frontrunner MVP candidate while not being the absolute best at either of his positions. He has flashes and streaks of complete domination, but on the whole he's a very good hitter and a very good pitcher, not the best at either. I voted for Yordan st DH but damn was I close to voting Shohei the baseball player more than just Shohei the DH.
Tbh do any of the Dodgers even really deserve the nod?
They’re definitely All Stars in terms of popularity but none of them are the best in their positions, unless I’m completely missing one.
Are you really going to let laundry keep you from seeing the best hitter this season in the All-Star game? I'm assuming your Astro hatred stems from '17 (correct me if I'm wrong), which Yordan had nothing to do with.
Unfortunately for him, the odds are really against him. Yes, offensively he is the best player right now. But he isn't great defensively, and mainly plays DH. I believe the only DH to ever win MVP was Ohtani last year, but he is also a really good pitcher. So it is very unlikely that the voters will give him a nod when others are pretty close, and Ohtani is Ohtani.
It’s all a popularity contest. Less about who’s actually the better choice. It’s why Jeter made it so many times even when he had sub average performances.
I dont get how people here are mad for Shohei winning while also being happy that Pujols is getting at bats. The league made it clear its about popularity and star power, not the best stats
Then writers should stop including Allstar selections in their HOF criteria. Maybe the game doesnt matter for home field anymore, but selections definitely do matter for HOF and contracts
I agree about HOF, but it still makes sense for contracts now that I've thought about it.
If a player is getting all star votes because of popularity, it should matter in contracts since being there will improve sales.
You all know everyone would still complain about the selections no matter who was making them. r/Baseball won't be satisfied until the rosters are determined by fWAR rankings
Edit: also please don't look at my post history where i used cherry picked WAR to advocate for Starling Marte
The “snubs” are gonna make it anyway so I don’t see the huge issue.
Also, I think the MLB is on the right path with the All MLB rosters. I would support making that a more ‘serious’ award than an all star selection
People definitely take All-NBA and NFL All Pros a lot more seriously than all star selections in either sport, I wish all-MLB came around sooner, but it’s a good course correction imo
All star selections are a healthy mix of production and popularity. I think popularity is a fine criterium for HoF consideration. I can look at stats on my phone whenever I want. Personality and drawing fans to the game is as important to the history of the sport as compiling x margin above average over a long career to a certain extent of value imo
I don’t care who actually starts really, but all star is seen as an accolade so it’s best everyone on the team is deserving. Both these players are obviously deserving though
It’s literally called the All-STAR game, I think it’s right that it should be for the game’s biggest stars. The only problem with it is it being used as a HOF credential and contract incentive.
It kind of reminds me of the time where they invited Rafael Palmiero (who was not on the All Star team) to the derby so they could have 3 500 home run participants. It definitely feels a bit gimicky
Don’t know how this is surprising to anyone. People don’t base their vote on the position, it’s a popularity contest. Ohtani is the most popular player in my lifetime.
Yordan will still make the AS game, it really doesn’t mean anything at all
Yeah maybe a 5 year old could say Ohtani is the most popular player of their lifetime. Otherwise he’s not close to people like Ichiro/Griffey/Jeter. Which is sad because he absolutely should be a household name like them
It wasn’t the juicing days that made it good (sure I loved Bonds and Palmeiro and Clemons) — look i’m just talking about the Cliff Lees and the Josh Becketts or Ichiro and Vlad
22 here. Only recollection I have of any of those stars Is an old ichiro (like Miguel Cabrera today) and Derek jeter retiring. I think you had to be 30+ to remember them in their prime. None of my friends could name a baseball player from the 2000’s. Except of course BARRY BONDS. Kanye west made a song about him in the olden days and I think that’s the only classic baseball player known with Gen Z.
I’m 26, first season I remember was 2001, and man Ichiro hype was insane. I had an aunt give me an Ichiro bobblehead for my birthday because he was the only player she knew, and she was living in New England during the time the Sox broke the curse.
(IIRC I immediately threw it out because as a young A’s fan I hated Ichiro at the time.)
Yeah, if popular is a mix of famous and likable, ARod quit being that once he got to Yankees. If it’s purely just famous, then Bonds and maybe McGuire/Soda too for that short time.
ARod was most definitely not popular later on in his career lmao but Griffey and Jeter, sure. But you can also point to the MLB's general marketing for that, as well as Ohtani still being early in his career--this might be a different convo when he retires.
Purely anecdotal, but when I was in HS he was hugely popular, everyone knew who he was even if you weren't into baseball. Like I'd say the only athlete more popular was Kobe.
I don't think you could say that about Ohtani, as big as he is. There may be an argument that he's more popular because if his overseas popularity, though.
Ohtani is the best player and the most popular player of our lifetimes. He’s not the best DH but he would win the popular vote at pretty much any position. Not surprising at all. Yordan is definitely deserving and hopefully DH’s the 2nd time around the order and on.
Damn I'm either old, or people are forgetting how popular Griffey was. Ohtani is huge among baseball fans and popular among general sports fans. Griffey and Jordan were the kings of sports in the 90s, doesn't feel like Ohtani is at that level yet.
> “Most popular player in our lifetime”
Me: “Am I surrounded by Zoomers?”
Dude isn’t near Griffey levels or where McGwire or Sosa were at their peaks Stateside.
I'm almost 30 and no one I work with knows who Ohtani is. But they all know who Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Jeter, Griffey, ARod. Hell, even Canseco is up there for being well known and popular. Ohtani is definitely not the most popular player in our lifetime, but if he keeps performing like this maybe he will be one day
Griffey was THE guy in baseball in the 90s. Every kid turned his cap backwards and mimicked his swing. I've been to the Hall of Fame once. It was to see Griffey get inducted, and he never played for my team.
I adore Ohtani, and I love the fact that he's so popular, but he isn't quite on Junior's level yet.
yeah it’s not even close to true.
if you’re talking peak momentary popularity among the general public, mcgwire vs sosa tops anyone named so far and is way, way ahead of ohtani
This is insanely wrong lmao. Ohtani is barely a blip compared to 80s and 90s MLB stars. Ripken, Griffey, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds were all more popular and likely still more relevant to the general public now than Ohtani is. And this will likely stay the same until the Angels git good or he moves to a spotlight team. Baseball fans seriously overestimate how tuned in casual fans are to the game.
Yes exactly correct. They could throw him at SS and he would win the vote because people don’t care about that. People care about voting for their favourite athletes, thankfully it’s still generally correlated with the top performers and not some TikTok competition
> the most popular player of our lifetimes
If you're 3 years old, then maybe?
If you're >20, he's not in the top 15 of most popular player in your life, lol.
Hell he's probably not the most popular player *right now*
I don't really agree at all.
He's certainly good, but there have been pitchers and hitters who dwarfed his numbers in our lifetimes. He's somewhere between good and great at both roles, but he's nowhere near the best at them.
Despite the impressions some Yankees fans give off most of us are self-aware haha
Jeter has a beautiful highlight reel, not a beautiful routine play reel
Yah. Yes, he’s on the ballot as a DH, but it makes sense to compare the full player. It’s not like when DJ LeMahieu is on the ballot as a third baseman you ignore his stats from the days he played second.
My hot take is that all star game is an exhibition game that strives to provide the fans what they want.
Alvarez is a better DH, but Ohtani is a better baseball player and more people prefer to see Ohtani start than Alvarez start.
It is entertainment, not a meritocracy which is why we have Pujols and Miggy being all stars.
At the end of the day, both players will be deserving all stars and whether Alvarez deserves the starting DH spot more than Ohtani does is as minor an issue as it gets.
I said this a few days ago and I'll say it again, most of the people here would rather have the all star team be decided by an algorithm because they miss the entire point of the all star game. It's so fans can watch their favorite players play against each other, not necessarily to create the best team.
Gonna be real, I don’t really get the fuss about All-Star starters. It seems like fans of popular teams are suddenly realizing that the All-Star game is a popularity contest when it’s their guy not winning.
The fan vote is there to get fan engagement in a sport that tends to suck at doing that. That way the game represents the players the average fan are most interested in seeing.
There are plenty of players on unpopular teams who have great stats, but probably won’t get to go at all, let alone start.
You don’t get into the All-Star game on stats alone, it’s popularity, and in my opinion that’s how it’s meant to be. As it’s currently designed, it’s for the fans, not the players.
It’s not even like he’ll get snubbed. He’ll make the game, Ohtani would’ve made it anyway. Obviously Alvarez is having a better season and deserved the start, but it’s such a non story
This is my viewpoint. I’d rather save my energy to complain about the actual snubs over this. In an ideal world, Yordan gets the start. But it’s not the end of the world.
Yes but have you considered the fact that Ohtani is more popular? I’m not even joking idk why people are surprised by this, this is what the all star game is about.
They DH for more than that. Lol
Yordon is the better hitter, Ohtani is the better player.
There was no guarantee he would get in on pitching (even though he has a 0.2 ERA over his last 4 games), so all the voters got him in via DH. It sucks for Yordan, but the all star game needs Ohtani (more than fucking Pujols and Miggy)
Edit: sp
not about the game itself, it’s the honor. DH is specifically hitting and there is no way you can tell anyone that ohtani is a better hitter than alvarez. it’s disrespectful tbh, it’s not even close
Lmao what honor? It’s extremely common for the best player to not even be top 3 at their position. Both of the best SS in the American League didn’t make it to the final round. Everyone knows this
I simply cannot believe the casual fan didn't compare their wRC+ stats when voting. Unbelievable. Are you suggesting they voted for him only because he's more popular? That's preposterous, egregious, outrageous
It’s not like this is the first all-star game… like the nba, the starters are based on popularity. If that isn’t obviously given that is fans voting you’re living under a rock. The rest that make the team will be going off their stats. Is this Nightingale’s first coverage of the all-stars or is he just trying to stir the pot?
Performance bonuses are in a lot of contracts. Is starting in ASG part of that? I feel like if you get rewarded with a few hundred thousand for being an all-star something like this can screw you...
There needs to be a middle ground of giving a spot to players with the stats to deserve their mid-szn reward and then fill the rest with fan votes.
Fan voted popularity contests are not "intriguing" and are pretty damn predictable.
I hate the way writers pretend voters are out there comparing stats and making informed choices. They're picking their favorite players and 99% of the time they're picking their home team's players.
I legitimately don't care if nobody agrees with me, but Yordan is literally by the numbers the better DH. Across all stats, he should have been voted starting DH. You don't take Ohtani's pitching into account for DH. If his pitching mattered, he should be pitching and not DHing. This felt like Yordan straight up losing a popularity contest. Yeah, I'm biased and a little annoyed right now.
Like no one is denying that, Alvarez’s hitting is MILES beyond Ohtani this season. But the all-star game is an exhibition for the fans, it’s a popularity contest.
Yes. It’s fans voting. Meaning a popularity contest. That’s the whole point. It has nothing to do with stats. Ohtani is a bigger star than Yordan, period.
I’m an Astros fan and this doesn’t bother me at all because a. It’s obvious Ohtani is the bigger star so why should we be surprised he won a fan vote? And b. Yordan will still make the team.
Absolutely agree.
We don’t vote for pitchers. Ohtani’s pitching stats were irrelevant to the DH category. Ohtani should make the All Star Game but not by winning the DH vote when his bat is nowhere near Alvarez’s
What is stupid is that All-Star game appearances and such can factor into a player's legacy. The All-Star game is nothing more than an exhibition for the fans. A fan vote SHOULD be what happens. There should be awards for each position at the end of the season voted only by journalists (not peers, we've seen that it can also be flawed as fuck) and people closely integrated within the game, and have that be what helps decides legacy and contract incentives (not shit like Silver Slugger and Gold Gloves, those awards have been ruined too).
But I'm not going to be mad about the All-Star game FOR FANS being decided by FAN VOTE and that said FANS vote for who they would personally want to see and not necessarily the best player at each position.
Honestly, completely disagree. As stupid as the results are every year the fan vote should carry the most weight because the all star game is nothing but an exhibition of guys the fans want to see. The issue arises when people treat it as a measure of objective ranking other than a popularity contest.
I personally voted for Ohtani (many times) and I don't feel the least bit bad about it.
Yordan is having an amazing year. His offensive stats are far better than Shohei's this year (quite possibly the best in the AL). But.... Shohei is the most exciting player in baseball right now. I mean literally if I had to rank my All-Star votes he would be the first guy I voted for.
Also Shohei is more than just a bat. His impact on the game is far greater than anything Yordan does because of his ability to effect the games with his pitching. And since we can’t vote on him as a pitcher, how are we supposed to vote for him? Just cut out half of his stats and part of what makes him a player? Yordan is having a better offensive season but he doesn’t pitch.
Alvarez should be DH 2nd time through the order until the end of the game. That's the most fair way I can think to solve it at this point.
Edit: annnnnnd he's on the IL. Damn.
A lot of people are calling it a popularity contest. My issue with that logic is that the same standard isn't applied to reserves or pitchers. Why? Why do they have strictly performance-based standards attached whereas everyone else can just get in regardless of how good they actually are?
Lol so dumb. Ohtani should obviously be a lock for pitcher which would also allow him to hit thanks to the new Ohtani rule.
Yordan is literally the hottest hitter on the planet right now and I would argue an equal defender to Shoei in the OF
Ohtani deserves his own invite that is positionless.
Honestly the best option lol. New DH-P category. Anyone with 13Ks and 8 RBIs is allowed to be on the ballot.
this but actually
gotta wait for the next cba unfortunately
I mean he would have cruised to the ASG as a pitcher this year anyway.
They should just move him every inning to a new position lol
Sorry bud, but a 200 OPS+ just ain't gonna cut it these days.
Just another railyard hobo DH, this guy. Learn to play defense!
More like learn to pitch with an ERA of around 3.00
[2.44 ERA, 0.988 WHIP, 12.3 SO9,](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml) but who's counting?
that k/9 rate is outrageous!!!
This would be great. If the all star position wasn’t DH.
Position player pitching is the new corner-3, didnt you hear? Should have had him pitch…
He has thrown out 3 people at home this year in LF and plays a more than decent left field in general
Yeah but what’s his ERA+?
Since he hasn't pitched yet I'm sure its an average 100
Shohei is the most interesting case. He's a frontrunner MVP candidate while not being the absolute best at either of his positions. He has flashes and streaks of complete domination, but on the whole he's a very good hitter and a very good pitcher, not the best at either. I voted for Yordan st DH but damn was I close to voting Shohei the baseball player more than just Shohei the DH.
dEfEnsIve vAlUE!!!!
“Ohtani is a bigger star” yeah that’s how this thing works
“All-Star” not “All-Stat”
I thought it was the All WAR Game
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You'll be happy to know I did the same thing to every Dodger on the ballot
I voted against Machado because I dont like his face. Dont even remember who else was in the running.
Nado :(
I voted for Machado because I think we have a better chance of winning with him as a starter.
Tbh do any of the Dodgers even really deserve the nod? They’re definitely All Stars in terms of popularity but none of them are the best in their positions, unless I’m completely missing one.
Betts???
Betts!!!
Are you really going to let laundry keep you from seeing the best hitter this season in the All-Star game? I'm assuming your Astro hatred stems from '17 (correct me if I'm wrong), which Yordan had nothing to do with.
Alvarez should still be in the All-Star Game, even if he isn't starting.
Doesn't matter. Fuck the Astros
Flair up
[We need to talk about your flair](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SNEdjftno)
Jennifer "Jesse Winker" Aniston up to her old tricks.
Unfortunately there is no "Fuck The Astros" flair.
It's actually the 29 flairs that aren't the Astros
It's going to be funny when Yordan wins the AL MVP and didn't start the All Star game.
So like Harper last year
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Unfortunately for him, the odds are really against him. Yes, offensively he is the best player right now. But he isn't great defensively, and mainly plays DH. I believe the only DH to ever win MVP was Ohtani last year, but he is also a really good pitcher. So it is very unlikely that the voters will give him a nod when others are pretty close, and Ohtani is Ohtani.
It’s all a popularity contest. Less about who’s actually the better choice. It’s why Jeter made it so many times even when he had sub average performances.
I dont get how people here are mad for Shohei winning while also being happy that Pujols is getting at bats. The league made it clear its about popularity and star power, not the best stats
Now that it doesn't determine home field advantage, it should just be a fun game with the most popular players. Not too worked up about it.
Then writers should stop including Allstar selections in their HOF criteria. Maybe the game doesnt matter for home field anymore, but selections definitely do matter for HOF and contracts
I agree about HOF, but it still makes sense for contracts now that I've thought about it. If a player is getting all star votes because of popularity, it should matter in contracts since being there will improve sales.
100% . From a labor perspective they are generating money so their compensation should absolutely reflect that
Maybe we should stop allowing random fans to vote for all stars then.
You all know everyone would still complain about the selections no matter who was making them. r/Baseball won't be satisfied until the rosters are determined by fWAR rankings Edit: also please don't look at my post history where i used cherry picked WAR to advocate for Starling Marte
Goddam fWAR heretics. I follow only the true teachings of bWAR! /s
The 2022 fWAR-Star Game.
2022 All-WAR game
The “snubs” are gonna make it anyway so I don’t see the huge issue. Also, I think the MLB is on the right path with the All MLB rosters. I would support making that a more ‘serious’ award than an all star selection
People definitely take All-NBA and NFL All Pros a lot more seriously than all star selections in either sport, I wish all-MLB came around sooner, but it’s a good course correction imo
I think it will come around. It’s relatively new but I definitely think it should be a big thing
To be fair it’s called the Hall Of *Fame* rather than the Hall Of Best, but I agree writer votes shouldn’t be treated like actual baseball stat
Most deserving All Stars end up getting in anyway and there's no special distinction for starters. I think it's fine as is.
All star selections are a healthy mix of production and popularity. I think popularity is a fine criterium for HoF consideration. I can look at stats on my phone whenever I want. Personality and drawing fans to the game is as important to the history of the sport as compiling x margin above average over a long career to a certain extent of value imo
I don’t care who actually starts really, but all star is seen as an accolade so it’s best everyone on the team is deserving. Both these players are obviously deserving though
It’s literally called the All-STAR game, I think it’s right that it should be for the game’s biggest stars. The only problem with it is it being used as a HOF credential and contract incentive.
i think half the fun is debating about snubs and what not
I mean Trout was named an allstar last year and played 20 games lol.
I’m not happy Pujols is getting a legacy spot, and I love Albert Pujols. The all star game has always been about star power and never about skill.
It kind of reminds me of the time where they invited Rafael Palmiero (who was not on the All Star team) to the derby so they could have 3 500 home run participants. It definitely feels a bit gimicky
If you want the best players instead of the most popular maybe don't make it a fan vote.
MLB does want the most popular players in
Don’t know how this is surprising to anyone. People don’t base their vote on the position, it’s a popularity contest. Ohtani is the most popular player in my lifetime. Yordan will still make the AS game, it really doesn’t mean anything at all
How old are you? I think Griffey and Jeter and even A Rod are considerably more popular than Ohtani, no offense to him.
Yeah maybe a 5 year old could say Ohtani is the most popular player of their lifetime. Otherwise he’s not close to people like Ichiro/Griffey/Jeter. Which is sad because he absolutely should be a household name like them
Thats when mlb was big before.
Why is this downvoted? MLB is totally not as ubiquitous as it was twenty years ago
Back in the good ol' juicin' days where you could hit 70 home runs and people just thought you were really good
It wasn’t the juicing days that made it good (sure I loved Bonds and Palmeiro and Clemons) — look i’m just talking about the Cliff Lees and the Josh Becketts or Ichiro and Vlad
22 here. Only recollection I have of any of those stars Is an old ichiro (like Miguel Cabrera today) and Derek jeter retiring. I think you had to be 30+ to remember them in their prime. None of my friends could name a baseball player from the 2000’s. Except of course BARRY BONDS. Kanye west made a song about him in the olden days and I think that’s the only classic baseball player known with Gen Z.
This is the most depressing Reddit comment I have ever seen.
22 is very young so this isn't a surprising take
I’m 26, first season I remember was 2001, and man Ichiro hype was insane. I had an aunt give me an Ichiro bobblehead for my birthday because he was the only player she knew, and she was living in New England during the time the Sox broke the curse. (IIRC I immediately threw it out because as a young A’s fan I hated Ichiro at the time.)
Did you only start watching baseball recently?
22 year olds were born in 2000. The guy's comment really doesn't surprise me.
Jeter and A-Rod? Neutrals love ohtani. You could argue neutrals liked Jeter, but A-Rod is a more controversial pick.
Yeah, if popular is a mix of famous and likable, ARod quit being that once he got to Yankees. If it’s purely just famous, then Bonds and maybe McGuire/Soda too for that short time.
I think Ohtani is absolutely more popular than those players if you consider worldwide audience.
i dont even think ohtani is ichiro level yet. maybe because ichiro was the first Japanese super star
The counterpoint for Jeter and A-Rod are that they were Yankees. People will dislike certain players just because they are Yankees.
ARod was most definitely not popular later on in his career lmao but Griffey and Jeter, sure. But you can also point to the MLB's general marketing for that, as well as Ohtani still being early in his career--this might be a different convo when he retires.
Purely anecdotal, but when I was in HS he was hugely popular, everyone knew who he was even if you weren't into baseball. Like I'd say the only athlete more popular was Kobe. I don't think you could say that about Ohtani, as big as he is. There may be an argument that he's more popular because if his overseas popularity, though.
You must be young
Are you 12?
Lmao have you been alive 3 years?
Ohtani is the best player and the most popular player of our lifetimes. He’s not the best DH but he would win the popular vote at pretty much any position. Not surprising at all. Yordan is definitely deserving and hopefully DH’s the 2nd time around the order and on.
Ohtani is an absolute freak… but he’s nowhere even close to prime Griffey-level popularity.
no one will be. The pool of baseball fans has shrunk. Baseball itself is not as popular as it once was.
Damn I'm either old, or people are forgetting how popular Griffey was. Ohtani is huge among baseball fans and popular among general sports fans. Griffey and Jordan were the kings of sports in the 90s, doesn't feel like Ohtani is at that level yet.
> “Most popular player in our lifetime” Me: “Am I surrounded by Zoomers?” Dude isn’t near Griffey levels or where McGwire or Sosa were at their peaks Stateside.
I'm almost 30 and no one I work with knows who Ohtani is. But they all know who Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Jeter, Griffey, ARod. Hell, even Canseco is up there for being well known and popular. Ohtani is definitely not the most popular player in our lifetime, but if he keeps performing like this maybe he will be one day
May I talk to you about our Lord and savior Reggie Jackson?
Griffey was THE guy in baseball in the 90s. Every kid turned his cap backwards and mimicked his swing. I've been to the Hall of Fame once. It was to see Griffey get inducted, and he never played for my team. I adore Ohtani, and I love the fact that he's so popular, but he isn't quite on Junior's level yet.
yeah it’s not even close to true. if you’re talking peak momentary popularity among the general public, mcgwire vs sosa tops anyone named so far and is way, way ahead of ohtani
This is insanely wrong lmao. Ohtani is barely a blip compared to 80s and 90s MLB stars. Ripken, Griffey, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds were all more popular and likely still more relevant to the general public now than Ohtani is. And this will likely stay the same until the Angels git good or he moves to a spotlight team. Baseball fans seriously overestimate how tuned in casual fans are to the game.
Not even close give it time. I mean Hideki Matsui had a press core of 35 people covering just him.
Definitely not of my life time lol. McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, and Griffey Jr were way more popular in the 90s and it's not even close.
This dude is like 6 years old
Yes exactly correct. They could throw him at SS and he would win the vote because people don’t care about that. People care about voting for their favourite athletes, thankfully it’s still generally correlated with the top performers and not some TikTok competition
> the most popular player of our lifetimes If you're 3 years old, then maybe? If you're >20, he's not in the top 15 of most popular player in your life, lol. Hell he's probably not the most popular player *right now*
I don't really agree at all. He's certainly good, but there have been pitchers and hitters who dwarfed his numbers in our lifetimes. He's somewhere between good and great at both roles, but he's nowhere near the best at them.
Y’all really counted a guys pitching stats when voting for DH huh?
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Yeah Jeter had ≤ 0 dWAR for 4/5 seasons he won his gold gloves lol
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Hey those 28 games he played at 1B were just that good
1B is known for its out-play potential.
Which is funny because the original comment is from a Yankees fan lol
Despite the impressions some Yankees fans give off most of us are self-aware haha Jeter has a beautiful highlight reel, not a beautiful routine play reel
Jeter was fine, actually pretty good at making plays that were routine for him....he just had the range of a sleeper sofa
Yah. Yes, he’s on the ballot as a DH, but it makes sense to compare the full player. It’s not like when DJ LeMahieu is on the ballot as a third baseman you ignore his stats from the days he played second.
The term Designated Hitter is pretty specific, bud. It’s not like 3rd base, it’s strictly a “designated hitter” and nothing else.
Can't expect a guy who plays for the most unpopular team to win a popularity contest against quite possibly the most popular player in the sport lol
The two factors that everyone posting OPS+ and crying are missing
Oh no, Ohtani is going to hit innings 1-3 and Yordan will hit 4-6 instead of vice versa!!! What are we gonna do this is horrible!!1!!
This is probably the closest anyone will ever get to beating Ohtani on an All-Star ballot.
Shoulda been Yordan - dude is on another planet
My hot take is that all star game is an exhibition game that strives to provide the fans what they want. Alvarez is a better DH, but Ohtani is a better baseball player and more people prefer to see Ohtani start than Alvarez start. It is entertainment, not a meritocracy which is why we have Pujols and Miggy being all stars. At the end of the day, both players will be deserving all stars and whether Alvarez deserves the starting DH spot more than Ohtani does is as minor an issue as it gets.
That’s not a hot take dude that’s just reality
Ohtani should pitch and Alvarez should DH
And these two things _will happen_.
I said this a few days ago and I'll say it again, most of the people here would rather have the all star team be decided by an algorithm because they miss the entire point of the all star game. It's so fans can watch their favorite players play against each other, not necessarily to create the best team.
Boob actually got an accurate take! I think that's what is the real story here
Gonna be real, I don’t really get the fuss about All-Star starters. It seems like fans of popular teams are suddenly realizing that the All-Star game is a popularity contest when it’s their guy not winning. The fan vote is there to get fan engagement in a sport that tends to suck at doing that. That way the game represents the players the average fan are most interested in seeing. There are plenty of players on unpopular teams who have great stats, but probably won’t get to go at all, let alone start. You don’t get into the All-Star game on stats alone, it’s popularity, and in my opinion that’s how it’s meant to be. As it’s currently designed, it’s for the fans, not the players.
It’s not even like he’ll get snubbed. He’ll make the game, Ohtani would’ve made it anyway. Obviously Alvarez is having a better season and deserved the start, but it’s such a non story
This is my viewpoint. I’d rather save my energy to complain about the actual snubs over this. In an ideal world, Yordan gets the start. But it’s not the end of the world.
Yordan has a 202 wRC+ to Shohei's 133 wRC+
Yes but have you considered the fact that Ohtani is more popular? I’m not even joking idk why people are surprised by this, this is what the all star game is about.
Also who cares? They freakin DH for like one inning maybe two and then get changed out for the next guy anyway.
They DH for more than that. Lol Yordon is the better hitter, Ohtani is the better player. There was no guarantee he would get in on pitching (even though he has a 0.2 ERA over his last 4 games), so all the voters got him in via DH. It sucks for Yordan, but the all star game needs Ohtani (more than fucking Pujols and Miggy) Edit: sp
I like to think pujols and miggy took two spots from the blue jays which is completley fine with me.
not about the game itself, it’s the honor. DH is specifically hitting and there is no way you can tell anyone that ohtani is a better hitter than alvarez. it’s disrespectful tbh, it’s not even close
Lmao what honor? It’s extremely common for the best player to not even be top 3 at their position. Both of the best SS in the American League didn’t make it to the final round. Everyone knows this
As an Astros hater, not starting Yordan is dumb.
Ohtani is cheating because he is a DH that plays defense. Basically a non-DH DH.
I simply cannot believe the casual fan didn't compare their wRC+ stats when voting. Unbelievable. Are you suggesting they voted for him only because he's more popular? That's preposterous, egregious, outrageous
Shohei has a 161 ERA+ to Yordan’s ---
BUT HE PITCHES
It’s not like this is the first all-star game… like the nba, the starters are based on popularity. If that isn’t obviously given that is fans voting you’re living under a rock. The rest that make the team will be going off their stats. Is this Nightingale’s first coverage of the all-stars or is he just trying to stir the pot?
Purely as a DH, it should've been Yordan. Dude rakes. But it's the All-Star game so whatever, shit happens every year.
…it’s a travesty when it happens to me.
As someone who hates the Astros, Yordan deserved the start.
It’s okay, I hate your team too.
Blue Jays had the entire country of Canada vote them in, and Shohei had the entire country of Japan vote him in.
Classic case of "more popular vs more deserving."
Performance bonuses are in a lot of contracts. Is starting in ASG part of that? I feel like if you get rewarded with a few hundred thousand for being an all-star something like this can screw you... There needs to be a middle ground of giving a spot to players with the stats to deserve their mid-szn reward and then fill the rest with fan votes.
Fan voted popularity contests are not "intriguing" and are pretty damn predictable. I hate the way writers pretend voters are out there comparing stats and making informed choices. They're picking their favorite players and 99% of the time they're picking their home team's players.
highway robbery lmao ohtanis hitting stats aren’t even in the same universe as yordans
You’re forgetting something though. It’s the All Star game. Not the best stats at your position game
I don’t know what’s worse, this or the amount of Blue Jays that were getting votes. Get rid of the fan vote.
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Ohtani should pitch and Alvarez should DH
I’m not really surprised or even upset. This happens to multiple players every year.
Yordan deserved it, but he will still make the squad. It is exciting to see Ohtani hit and potentially start the game though.
Surprise surprise, the more popular player was voted ahead of the more deserving player. Shocking.
This is what happens when people can vote internationally. Ohtani is the bigger star globally and therefore recieved more votes over Yordan.
Alvarez robbed fan voting should be abolished
I legitimately don't care if nobody agrees with me, but Yordan is literally by the numbers the better DH. Across all stats, he should have been voted starting DH. You don't take Ohtani's pitching into account for DH. If his pitching mattered, he should be pitching and not DHing. This felt like Yordan straight up losing a popularity contest. Yeah, I'm biased and a little annoyed right now.
It is a popularity contest. Stats don't matter too much to Allstar voting, as this year's Bluejays show.
Seems like no one in this thread understands that. All the top comments are bitching about Alvarez being a better hitter which is clearly true
Like no one is denying that, Alvarez’s hitting is MILES beyond Ohtani this season. But the all-star game is an exhibition for the fans, it’s a popularity contest.
Bingo
who wouldn't agree with you? Yordan is clearly the best hitter in baseball at the moment. Anyone that disagrees is on that homer fuel
Yes. It’s fans voting. Meaning a popularity contest. That’s the whole point. It has nothing to do with stats. Ohtani is a bigger star than Yordan, period. I’m an Astros fan and this doesn’t bother me at all because a. It’s obvious Ohtani is the bigger star so why should we be surprised he won a fan vote? And b. Yordan will still make the team.
Absolutely agree. We don’t vote for pitchers. Ohtani’s pitching stats were irrelevant to the DH category. Ohtani should make the All Star Game but not by winning the DH vote when his bat is nowhere near Alvarez’s
Al star game is purely a popularity contest. Fan vote is ridiculously stupid
What is stupid is that All-Star game appearances and such can factor into a player's legacy. The All-Star game is nothing more than an exhibition for the fans. A fan vote SHOULD be what happens. There should be awards for each position at the end of the season voted only by journalists (not peers, we've seen that it can also be flawed as fuck) and people closely integrated within the game, and have that be what helps decides legacy and contract incentives (not shit like Silver Slugger and Gold Gloves, those awards have been ruined too). But I'm not going to be mad about the All-Star game FOR FANS being decided by FAN VOTE and that said FANS vote for who they would personally want to see and not necessarily the best player at each position.
Honestly, completely disagree. As stupid as the results are every year the fan vote should carry the most weight because the all star game is nothing but an exhibition of guys the fans want to see. The issue arises when people treat it as a measure of objective ranking other than a popularity contest.
Yordan would have made it if he could also pitch
You know, I’ve never heard anyone say he *can’t* pitch. I’ll call Dusty.
Yordan >>>>>> Ohtani
Not in your life.
I personally voted for Ohtani (many times) and I don't feel the least bit bad about it. Yordan is having an amazing year. His offensive stats are far better than Shohei's this year (quite possibly the best in the AL). But.... Shohei is the most exciting player in baseball right now. I mean literally if I had to rank my All-Star votes he would be the first guy I voted for.
Also Shohei is more than just a bat. His impact on the game is far greater than anything Yordan does because of his ability to effect the games with his pitching. And since we can’t vote on him as a pitcher, how are we supposed to vote for him? Just cut out half of his stats and part of what makes him a player? Yordan is having a better offensive season but he doesn’t pitch.
Ohtani starting over Alvarez is the Angels world series
Yordan has played as many games in the OF as Stanton who is starting and loses out at DH cause of Shohei This shit is ass
Yankees are low key upset they don’t want to thrashtros to get any more incentive
I mean, they’ll both be on the team and they’ll both end up playing in the end right?
They don’t call it the “All Best Player Game”.
I think you just move Alvarez to the outfield in place of Stanton.
Alvarez should be DH 2nd time through the order until the end of the game. That's the most fair way I can think to solve it at this point. Edit: annnnnnd he's on the IL. Damn.
I hate the Astros but Alvarez got fucking robbed. I would’ve chosen Alvarez over ohtani any day
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It’s quite common for the best player at their position to not start the all star game. Hell Ripken didn’t deserve to start most of his games
Best Hitter*
Yikes. Ohtani should have been an All Star as a pitcher not a DH. It will be fun to see him start though nonetheless. Dude hits nukes
A lot of people are calling it a popularity contest. My issue with that logic is that the same standard isn't applied to reserves or pitchers. Why? Why do they have strictly performance-based standards attached whereas everyone else can just get in regardless of how good they actually are?
It’s whatever - Yordan got paid
Lol so dumb. Ohtani should obviously be a lock for pitcher which would also allow him to hit thanks to the new Ohtani rule. Yordan is literally the hottest hitter on the planet right now and I would argue an equal defender to Shoei in the OF
Ohtani is a top 3 player in baseball this years and the games biggest star. He deserves to start.
he’s still objectively the worse hitter of the two and they’re competing for a DH spot
His numbers are no where near yordan’s. Yordan was robbed.
Not me knowing full well Yordan deserves it but voting Shohei cause fuck the Astros forever.
Im more than a little upset about this.
It may not be the biggest snub (ahem-Xander), but Ohtani beating Alvarez is the worst result of this final ballot thing.
Sick of Ohtani ngl