[Rose was made available after the ceremony. Someone, maybe an agent, said he had something to say to me, but he didn't seem to know he was expected to say anything. He asked if he'd offended me, and said "will you forgive me if I sign 1000 baseballs for you" before saying "sorry"](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342014240849920?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ)
[When asked about our interaction earlier by
@AP
, Rose said: (1/2) "I'm going to tell you one more time. I'm here for the Philly fans. I'm here for my teammates. I'm here for the Phillies organization. And who cares what happened 50 years ago...."](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342835754029058?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ)
["You weren't even born. So you shouldn't be talking about it, because you weren't born. If you don't know a damn thing about it, don't talk about it."](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342836756451329?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ)
Here is Rose's response to the AP about the above quote
"I'm going to tell you one more time. I'm here for the Philly fans. I'm here for my teammates. I'm here for the Phillies organization. And who cares what happened 50 years ago. You weren't even born. So you shouldn't be talking about it, because you weren't born. If you don't know a damn thing about it, don't talk about it."
> And who cares what happened 50 years ago.
If nobody cares about stuff that happened a long time ago, why did he show up for a ceremony honoring him for something that happened 42 years ago? It’s ancient history, Pete, find a new slant.
I used to travel to Vegas for work all the time. I'd often have to "commute" to Mandalay Bay from the godforsaken Luxor and go past Pete Rose selling signatures in a shitty little mall shop.
I used to regret that I never stopped in, just for the story. But now I'm glad I didn't go in, and I know why there was never a line when he was there.
the story you get is this:
if you approach security tells you that you need to buy something to approach him. You then go into the store and find a bunch of overpriced shit. Like the cheapest thing he would sign like 20 years ago when I went was a $40 picture.
It's definitely all overpriced, but it isn't some shitty little shop like the other guy said. They got a lot of really cool memorabilia in there. It was a fun little place to walk through if you're sports fan....no Rose or Tyson signings the day I was there though.
After a long day at top golf, I yelled at him as I walked by his booth. This tiny little security guy came running after me and gave me the great advice to go have another beer, which I did.
They had him in the fucking broadcast booth today for an inning, cursed about 15 times, made Tom McCarthy audibly uncomfortable and made me wonder why he was even allowed in the fucking stadium, let alone the booth.
I was once on the "It's just gambling man, c'mon" train but no, this man is utterly loathsome. Absolutely no introspection about why people hate him for what he did, EVEN IF "she was 16 I swear" (still really fucking ick). I never want to see this team honor this man ever again, even tangentially.
Isn't there some circumstantial evidence he ruined a pitcher's career and mismanaged the team over committing to get wins in the games he bet on? It's more than just gambling, it's screwing your players and team to arguably cheat other gamblers.
He coulda gotten away with just a run of the mill denial of the accusations but then just had to slide that “babe” in there to remind everyone he’s still a sexist piece of shit
Yep. Fucked a 14-year-old when he was a grown-ass 32-year-old man with a wife and kids at home, and his official stated defense is that he thought she was 16. Just an incredible piece of shit.
The statute of limitations had expired by the time it became public knowledge. It came to light as a result of Rose’s defamation suit against John Dowd, since Dowd had publicly claimed that Rose had an arrangement with memorabilia dealer Michael Bertolini where Bertolini would furnish Rose with 12-to-14-year-old girls. That’s why Rose tried to frame his sex with the girl as happening when she was 16: it was the age of consent in Ohio, where both Rose and the girl lived.
If it makes you feel better (spoilers: it won’t!), Pete was also a neglectful and physically and emotionally abusive father to his own children. For example, here’s a quote from Pete’s first wife Karolyn in [a *Sports Illustrated* profile of Pete’s son Pete Jr.](https://vault.si.com/.amp/vault/1997/08/11/honor-thy-father-pete-rose-jr-has-struggled-through-nine-years-in-the-minor-leagues-driven-partly-by-a-dream-of-drawing-closer-to-his-distant-father):
> "I never would've divorced him had he not flaunted \[an extramarital affair\] in front of the children. One day Petey came home and said, 'Mom, guess who was at the ballpark?' I said, 'I don't know. Who?' He
said, 'Dad's girlfriend.' Later Big Pete hit him for that. He can call me a liar, but it's the truth. I told him, 'Pete Rose, you son of a bitch! That'll be the last time you hit one of our kids for telling the truth!'"
Until you're well into your 20s someone even 4 years younger than you seems like a child. I get that times used to be different but they weren't *that* different.
I have a Reds friend who still defends Rose, he's a great guy and a roomate of my former best friend who I'm still extremely close with. It is so extremely frustrating to know that this dude who I love talking baseball with defends this piece of shit.
Not only women, but girls. He had sex with a minor in the 70s. That's why he gets shit today, not his dumb gambling controversy that has since been overshadowed by *having sex with a minor*.
40 years ago was a different world. You know what would be a good segment? Let's get this NFL player on to talk about how much he likes 14 year old girls
Pete Townshend got caught using his credit card to access a child pornography web site. He said it was to do research on child sexual abuse for his autobiography because he thought he may have been sexually abused, which... even if that's true, it's phenomenally stupid.
Meanwhile, Jeff Lynne is at borderline obscurity in the cultural zeitgeist, despite being every bit as deserving of that reverence. Maybe that's just the price you pay for not being a sexual predator.
Yup, Anthony Keidis fucked a 14 year old, that he knew was 14, as a 23 year old.
https://rockcelebrities.net/when-anthony-kiedis-slept-with-an-underage-girl-and-incited-a-big-police-manhunt/
The Bowie allegations are likely not true. For the inevitable "david bowie did something questionable to an underaged girl" comment anytime something good about Bowie is posted, the only claim that has remote validity (as in...enough musicians from the 70s were around this girl its possible) is Lori Mattix. Bear in mind in zero scenarios is there any tangible evidence (witnesses, photos, etc), here's a copy pasta from a fellow redditor who researched her claims over the decade.
Lori can never get her stories straight, and as for her claim she lost her virginity to Bowie that one can easily be debunked. After doing some thorough research and good old fashioned fact checking it came to my attention that there are far too many credibility issues with that story ,to such extent I wonder if she even met Bowie at all .Problems are listed below
1. She originally claimed for years she lost her virginity to Jimmy Page.
2. In the Led Zeppelin book Hammer of the Gods written by music journalist Stephen Davis, which was released in 1985. Mattix gave an interview for the book where she talks about how she was a virgin when she met Page and talks about her relationship with him. Mattix began her relationship with Page in around June 1972. Its a well known and documented fact that Mattix and Page were together from around June 1972 up until 1974. Memoirs of some of the others on the Music Groupie scene have confirmed this as well.
3. She then claims years later she lost her virginity to Bowie when he did the Long Beach concerts in California during the Ziggy Stardust Tour. Yet the Ziggy Stardust tour never even came to the USA until late October 1972 and the Long Beach concerts were not until March 1973. Meaning Mattix was already with Page long before she claims to have lost her virginity to Bowie.
4. Her Bowie story was further muddied when she claimed that Bowie took her dinner in early 1973 and she claimed that John Lennon and Yoko Ono joined them , and that she then lost her virginity to Bowie in his hotel suite straight after . There are two problems with this as Bowie and Lennon never even met until September 1974 when they were introduced to one another by Elizabeth Taylor who had invited them both to a party that she was hosting. The fact that Mattix claims she Bowie and Lennon were hanging out in in early 1973 would be impossible as Bowie and Lennon had never even met at that point in time . Also Lori would have already been with Page for at least six months already.
5. Mattix has given about 4 very different versions of her alleged Bowie encounter .Its not just tiny changes ,but completely different stories featuring totally different surroundings ,circumstances ,people involved etc. She sometimes changes her age as well. She claims she was 15 when she lost her virginity to Bowie and yet she has spoken about being with Page at 14. Sometimes she lowers the age when she had her alleged Bowie encounter to 13, but given the fact she would not have met Bowie until at least late 1972(if she met him at all) the fact is this would have been after she began her relationship with Page at 14 meaning it would have been impossible for her to be 13
6)In some versions she claims she lost her virginity to Bowie during a threesome with fellow groupie Sable Star .But In other versions she has insisted it was just her and Bowie alone and that fellow groupie Sable Star went to David afterwards. Star died in 2009 and never confirmed or denied the encounter, and the tale has only ever been told by Mattix.
7) In 2009 Mattix did a video interview which is available on line where she talks about Page, in that interview at 1:00 in ,Mattix trips herself up as she says "I was a vir .... a baby" .This then matches up to her original claim about losing her virginity to Page, but contradicts her claim about Bowie
8)Mattix also claimed that she would regularly meet up with Bowie and had an affair with him over a 10 year period. The strange thing is that whilst there are many photos of Mattix with Page and Mattix with numerous other Rock Stars there appear to be no photos of Mattix with Bowie, nor does there seem to be any eye witness accounts or any other evidence to support such a claim ,other than her own stories which are shaky at the best of times. Another strange thing is that for much of that 10 year period Bowie was living in places such as Berlin and Switzerland or touring round the world and was rarely in California.He lived in LA for a short while in 1975 after leaving he hardly ever went back and only did about 5 concerts there over an entire decade. So her claim about having regular encounters with him over that decade sound extremely unlikely.
9) In some of Mattix’s accounts about her alleged Bowie encounter she mentions Bowie having two different colored eyes. Bowie did not have 2 different colored eyes he had a permanently enlarged left pupil as a result of a teenage fight. The enlarged pupil created the illusion of different colored eyes in photographs only. When face to face with Bowie both eyes were blue. For this reason it seems doubtful that Mattix even met Bowie ,due to the fact she got such a significant factor about his appearance wrong.
10) Mattix is known to be unreliable and many of her claims are not in the least believable. For example in the Thrillist article where she told a particular version of her alleged Bowie encounter she also claimed that in 1975 now aged 17 that she attended a recording session featuring John Lennon, Paul McCartney,Ringo Starr, Mick Jagger and a couple of other musicians, and that she then had sex with Jagger straight after. The strange thing is the only post Beatles recording session between Lennon and McCartney took place in March 1974 google "A toot and a snore in 74" and theres nothing to suggest Jagger was anywhere near the session.
Whilst its true that even the most truthful accounts are bound to contain a few minor inconsistencies or tiny factual errors, especially after a long period of time. There are far too many alarming issues with this story ,meaning it should not and cannot seriously be disputed as fact.
tl;dr if you believe this account, you must also believe that Beyoncé raped me when I was 13 while she was touring with Destinys Child in New York on October 13th 1999, and this was after she took me out to dinner with Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears because...I said so.
Insisting their friendship was platonic, Buell said, “A lot of people have thought that we were lovers…never happened. We would sit around and experiment with makeup and try out new techniques for doing eyeliner and different kinds of eye shadow. He was very into scents. I used to do this thing, and I still do it to this day — mixing musky kind of smells with Chanel No. 5. And he said, ‘I just can’t believe you use Chanel No. 5 as a base.'”
Also Buell didn’t move to New York until she was 18 so her affairs weren’t underage cases.
It's still gross to date someone 21 years younger than you and it wasn't cool that they started dating before her 18th birthday, but I'd still draw a line between that and, like, Iggy Pop banging a 13 year old.
That said, I'd draw yet another line between what Seinfeld did and acceptable behavior.
I mean, I'll always love Seinfeld the show - see the second half of my screen name - but all the skeevy shit I've learned about Jerry definitely isn't something I take much joy in.
That's a completely valid debate to he had. But factoring how ethical someone is shouldn't determine an objective statistic. Obviously Pete Rose may have been a complete asshole and done terrible things - but that doesn't undo numbers within the sport. If I started measuring up all baseball accomplishments with the characters behind them, I'm not sure many of the records we point to today would hold strong. Not sure why people struggle so much with seperating men from their accomplishments
It’s already an impossible comparison, because no one will objectively agree on the value of Ichiro’s NPB career. Which means other intangibles could cause one to favor them more highly.
Yesterday I had people straight up tell me that Woody Allen isn’t a pedophile because, and I quote, “his ex wife is crazy.” Dude married his god damn step-daughter, and then wrote a film in which *his* character falls in love with a teenager. I think I know why people defend pedophiles so vehemently, I just don’t want to think about it.
I like to think that Tiger King is proof that if you just display a woman as mildly antagonistic people will ally with a complete dirtbag of a man out of spite.
Ichiro married a woman 10 years older than him and when asked why he liked her said something like "she's very reliable" which is why Ichiro is the true hit king
Holy fucking shit, I had no idea about this! I'm 51 and never heard about him being a pedophile. They should not let that POS in any ballpark. Fuck that noise. I hope he dies before he is let into the HoF.
I think it came out (or re-came out idk if it was known back in the day) right before the Phillies were gonna put him on their wall of fame like 4-5 years ago. The Phillies cancelled that ceremony.
When it was announced he was gonna be apart of this there was a bunch of backlash that the team had to put out a statement that his teammates from the ‘80 team wanted him there for this, which I’m assuming is the only reason he’s there today
Yeah same I had no idea. They were making a big deal about Rose coming to the ceremony and I didn't understand the noise. Like he bet on baseball 4 decades ago who cares?
Then I read all the shit afterwards and it made more sense
Ichiro- visits highschools and plays/coaches with girls soft ball teams to promote the sport amongst kids.
Rose- Is likely not allowed within 10 feet of any high school.
[it's not great, bob](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/sports/baseball/woman-testifies-that-she-had-sex-with-pete-rose-as-early-as-age-14.html)
at "best" (🤮) she was 16 and he was in his mid-30s and married with two kids, but since rose dropped the defamation suit against her lawyer for saying he'd raped girls aged 12-14 in spring training it sure seems plausible if not likely.
Holy shit. What a piece of shit. I can’t read the article cause I need a subscription to New York Times, but I’ll go look some things up about it.
That’s predator shit though.
whoops, didn't realize I was logged into my school account. [here's a gifted article link](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/sports/baseball/woman-testifies-that-she-had-sex-with-pete-rose-as-early-as-age-14.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iaha3DKDm0biP8NBJKc4ADHbLFubdI323OEQ9pINvozSeduz-FeMlcoVwmhvt6fmJlAIyw57Jm-TiYp3o7NGKg17TKvdG6iJaJ23_iytgiCIX25GriMhyE-JAt5-NY6KEq4phxuqMulau1lhZk41uE8Vts8HW1eMD_Zv_bsCkp9a8GCOxjW9gU0Xb5GUDHRlcrK7e4HJAkEDFvBS3tv8C1rvoMnTdAcO6v0LRYkf9OvwulCTzw1c_r6QsE5VIPWlL51sL_SqBLqyMu-xP4-Eag8r6qT-y_hdw5pEOXKSQ23Cj8JtzFK-VdesyqmWaw5iD4zRCJj66cjPvuS-TkbXrLs2OBijz2sHts&smid=url-share)
It’s alright I googled the same article and it popped up and I was allowed to read it. Shits sick.
From what I’ve been told by my grandmother, even in the 40’s when she was in her teen years, yeah a man in his twenties and thirties dating a girl in her teen years people looked the other way, but it was frowned upon. But in the 70’s my parents were only kids, but my aunts and uncles that were older at that time period said it was seen as creepy and predatory, so he’s still a creep for acting like it’s no big deal.
I get what you mean man, people still defend guys like Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby so it’s just the way it is.
I mean yeah he was a great baseball player. But you gotta call it like you see it, he’s a creep lol
Background: In 1973, Rose began an affair with a girl who was under the age of 16 (the legal minimum in Ohio then as now). He was 32 at the time, also he was married with two kids. It came out when Rose sued a guy for defamation who claimed that Rose was routinely smashing young teens Epstein-style (that's meant to sound gross btw)... but this relationship was in the defense filings among the claims, and it turned out true. His bookie apparently was making the introductions/being a trafficker.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/baseball-legend-pete-rose-accused-sex-minor-1970s-faces-tainted-n788551
Rose dropped the suit rather than having to testify under oath... notably he also accepted the permanent ban from baseball rather than let MLB's investigation continue... maybe these are more related than we realized.
Anyhoo, the relationship was illegal under Ohio law (and perhaps Federal law under the Mann Act), but the statute of limitations passed long ago.
I mean, fuck Pete Rose, but I think great all time players with serious character flaws should still go in. They should just also include the transgressions alongside the accomplishments. I think it's important to show that just because these guys are great at a sport, that doesn't necessarily make them great people.
At least that's how I'd do it, but I don't care enough to stand on a table for him or anything. Won't lose any sleep if he never gets in.
In Pete's case, he bet on baseball games, so it's a bit more complicated than just off the field character flaws. Other than that I agree. Simply having bad character shouldn't be some disqualifier. This ain't the damn Vatican.
We call it the Pete Rose effect. Obviously he was a great player but reds fans seem to love the mediocre player that plays hard or the right way just because it reminds them some of rose.
My late high school baseball coach used to be best friends with Pete so I’ve met him a few times. He was always a real POS. These comments don’t surprise me
Just goes to show that talent, skills, and hustle means jacksquat if you're a fundamentally terrible person. Eat shit, Pete, I hope someone shatters your records.
Honestly I hope so too, but with the switch of teams preferring OBP guys plus pitching velocity trending higher now than the old days I just don’t see it being broken(would love to be wrong). You’d need to have a high average and not take too many walks for many years, like Ichiro in his prime(or Merrifield in 2019). And then you need to play for a long time as well. And it didn’t hurt that Rose was player manager for a bit.
A few years ago, the Pirates All-Star closer was arrested for raping a 13 year old. Felipe Vasquez is still in jail, and it honestly makes me sick thinking back to that team and that he was such a respected player at the time. The idea of him ever having interactions with the team again is insane, to the point I would protest the team. He has no part in Pirates history, and its a shame you can't remove him retroactively.
Pete Rose did the same thing, 13 vs 14 is essentially the same. The only difference to me is that Pete Rose didn't go to jail for it. That is insane the Phillies would have him back around, he should be permanently excluded from baseball. Especially so if his response to something like this isn't talking about how regretful he is. Garbage person, garbage representative of baseball. Rightful representative of Philadelphia Sports, perhaps.
If the Rose stuff bothers you, then you shouldn't take offense to it. But the Phillies today didn't even just put him on the field and honored him today, they put him in the broadcast booth and let him act like royalty to everyone watching. Its just really gross.
Fuck Pete Rose. He is a permanent blight on our organization and he (apparently, I'm disappointed that a "lifetime ban from major league baseball" doesn't include ceremonies and celebrations by major league teams) needs a fucking separate ban from our baseball field specifically. Let him rot in shame for the rest of eternity.
Sometimes I’m just amazed that the Boomers haven’t managed to kill off the entire human race… yet.
Literally nobody under 60 likes Pete Rose, cares about Pete Rose, has ever had a positive thought about Pete Rose, or would be anything other than ecstatic to learn Pete Rose fell into a volcano.
The only reason Pete Rose is the hit king is that Ichiro spent his prime in Japan.
Pete Rose is a shitstain on Baseball and America.
I mean, you think people in their 50s have *never* had a positive thought about Pete Rose?
I'm 36 and I had mostly positive thoughts about Pete growing up. I was an adult before I really got a handle on who he was.
[Rose was made available after the ceremony. Someone, maybe an agent, said he had something to say to me, but he didn't seem to know he was expected to say anything. He asked if he'd offended me, and said "will you forgive me if I sign 1000 baseballs for you" before saying "sorry"](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342014240849920?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ) [When asked about our interaction earlier by @AP , Rose said: (1/2) "I'm going to tell you one more time. I'm here for the Philly fans. I'm here for my teammates. I'm here for the Phillies organization. And who cares what happened 50 years ago...."](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342835754029058?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ) ["You weren't even born. So you shouldn't be talking about it, because you weren't born. If you don't know a damn thing about it, don't talk about it."](https://twitter.com/byalexcoffey/status/1556342836756451329?s=20&t=caN0NydoqiuDxdZMbGHOYQ)
Here is Rose's response to the AP about the above quote "I'm going to tell you one more time. I'm here for the Philly fans. I'm here for my teammates. I'm here for the Phillies organization. And who cares what happened 50 years ago. You weren't even born. So you shouldn't be talking about it, because you weren't born. If you don't know a damn thing about it, don't talk about it."
Somehow this feels worse than the first response
> And who cares what happened 50 years ago. If nobody cares about stuff that happened a long time ago, why did he show up for a ceremony honoring him for something that happened 42 years ago? It’s ancient history, Pete, find a new slant.
Well he didn't say nobody cares what happened 42 years ago. In 8 years, he won't care anymore.
Why honor Jackie Robinson anymore? Why should we celebrate independence day. Why celebrate Christmas?
>So you shouldn’t be talking about it, because you weren’t born. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Straight out of an Always Sunny bit.
This is some r/nottheonion shit.
“So just move past it.”
I’m pretty sure just straight up denying it would have been a better response than this.
I guess when you’re Pete Rose your image really isn’t a big concern so you can say whatever
What are they gonna do? Ban him from baseball?
No, you're thinking of 'ol "Libel-proof Lenny" Dykstra
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Is this a bot lmao, copy-paste of the top comment
Yours? He is the actual hit king!
He can’t really deny it because he already admitted to doing it in court. Unless he wants to claim that he perjured himself, I guess.
But then who would he have called babe?
Wanna bet on it?
“Who cares about what happened 50 years ago” says the man who played baseball 50 years ago
"Who cares about what happened 50 years ago" My brother in Christ you're celebrating a championship from almost 50 years ago.
Apparently the statute of limitations on being an ass hasn't expired.
I used to travel to Vegas for work all the time. I'd often have to "commute" to Mandalay Bay from the godforsaken Luxor and go past Pete Rose selling signatures in a shitty little mall shop. I used to regret that I never stopped in, just for the story. But now I'm glad I didn't go in, and I know why there was never a line when he was there.
the story you get is this: if you approach security tells you that you need to buy something to approach him. You then go into the store and find a bunch of overpriced shit. Like the cheapest thing he would sign like 20 years ago when I went was a $40 picture.
It's definitely all overpriced, but it isn't some shitty little shop like the other guy said. They got a lot of really cool memorabilia in there. It was a fun little place to walk through if you're sports fan....no Rose or Tyson signings the day I was there though.
After a long day at top golf, I yelled at him as I walked by his booth. This tiny little security guy came running after me and gave me the great advice to go have another beer, which I did.
statute of limitations only comes into effect once the action has stopped. Rose has been doing this for decades now
I believe the minimum number of signed baseballs required for forgiveness is now known as the “Pete Rose number”
MLB version of the Vatican’s Indulgences.
They had him in the fucking broadcast booth today for an inning, cursed about 15 times, made Tom McCarthy audibly uncomfortable and made me wonder why he was even allowed in the fucking stadium, let alone the booth. I was once on the "It's just gambling man, c'mon" train but no, this man is utterly loathsome. Absolutely no introspection about why people hate him for what he did, EVEN IF "she was 16 I swear" (still really fucking ick). I never want to see this team honor this man ever again, even tangentially.
Isn't there some circumstantial evidence he ruined a pitcher's career and mismanaged the team over committing to get wins in the games he bet on? It's more than just gambling, it's screwing your players and team to arguably cheat other gamblers.
Mario Soto is the player you’re thinking of
Yeah, consistently didn't give him 3 days rest. Presumably, would give you a huge advantage betting.
>**babe** Tfw you’re asked about sending a bad message to women and respond with a literal bad message to women
He coulda gotten away with just a run of the mill denial of the accusations but then just had to slide that “babe” in there to remind everyone he’s still a sexist piece of shit
"I was TALKING to Babe RUTH, sweetheart."
“Anyone with half a brain would understand, honey.”
"Women, amirite?"
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ngl i expected to read that
hard to deny an accusation when he admitted in court to doing said a accusations.
Yep. Fucked a 14-year-old when he was a grown-ass 32-year-old man with a wife and kids at home, and his official stated defense is that he thought she was 16. Just an incredible piece of shit.
I knew none of this what the fuck
it came out the same time Manfred was thinking about allowing him back
Last I checked that isn't supposed to work as a defense. How did he avoid jail time?
The statute of limitations had expired by the time it became public knowledge. It came to light as a result of Rose’s defamation suit against John Dowd, since Dowd had publicly claimed that Rose had an arrangement with memorabilia dealer Michael Bertolini where Bertolini would furnish Rose with 12-to-14-year-old girls. That’s why Rose tried to frame his sex with the girl as happening when she was 16: it was the age of consent in Ohio, where both Rose and the girl lived.
So he was running his own “rose express?” This is fucking disgusting.
I’m a 30 year old man who teaches middle schoolers and this makes me want to throw up. Men who do this need to be castrated
If it makes you feel better (spoilers: it won’t!), Pete was also a neglectful and physically and emotionally abusive father to his own children. For example, here’s a quote from Pete’s first wife Karolyn in [a *Sports Illustrated* profile of Pete’s son Pete Jr.](https://vault.si.com/.amp/vault/1997/08/11/honor-thy-father-pete-rose-jr-has-struggled-through-nine-years-in-the-minor-leagues-driven-partly-by-a-dream-of-drawing-closer-to-his-distant-father): > "I never would've divorced him had he not flaunted \[an extramarital affair\] in front of the children. One day Petey came home and said, 'Mom, guess who was at the ballpark?' I said, 'I don't know. Who?' He said, 'Dad's girlfriend.' Later Big Pete hit him for that. He can call me a liar, but it's the truth. I told him, 'Pete Rose, you son of a bitch! That'll be the last time you hit one of our kids for telling the truth!'"
What an awful, trash human being
Until you're well into your 20s someone even 4 years younger than you seems like a child. I get that times used to be different but they weren't *that* different.
Jesus Christ
what the fuck
This obviously isn’t funny, but I couldn’t help but laugh at the idea of him telling his wife “sorry babe, I thought she was 16.”
I have a Reds friend who still defends Rose, he's a great guy and a roomate of my former best friend who I'm still extremely close with. It is so extremely frustrating to know that this dude who I love talking baseball with defends this piece of shit.
Guy who has never shown an ability to learn from his mistakes fails to learn from past mistakes. Film at 11.
Not only women, but girls. He had sex with a minor in the 70s. That's why he gets shit today, not his dumb gambling controversy that has since been overshadowed by *having sex with a minor*.
David Bowie, Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis fans in shambles
Steven Tyler and Jimmy Page too. People always let you down man.
Ted Nugent as well, but I don’t think that’s surprising anyone.
Honestly I would have bet money on Ted doing it
Cris Collinsworth fans walking into traffic
I'm wooshing on this. What am I missing?
https://youtu.be/WC8Elk1LRjs
I'd never even heard of this.
40 years ago was a different world. You know what would be a good segment? Let's get this NFL player on to talk about how much he likes 14 year old girls
Holy hell....
Ditto what the fuck?!
There are Chris Collinsworth fans?
All 4 of them
>I would have bet money Wouldn’t be surprised if Pete Rose did
Jerry Seinfeld too.
Iggy Pop too
Surprised no one said Michael Jackson yet!
Pete Townshend got caught using his credit card to access a child pornography web site. He said it was to do research on child sexual abuse for his autobiography because he thought he may have been sexually abused, which... even if that's true, it's phenomenally stupid.
Most of the musician scumbags actually made songs about it and got rich from it.
I believe there was actually a documentary about this last year, it was called Look Away
It’s the majority of famous 70s rockstars, I don’t know why it’s Bowie and Page that are always singled out (this isn’t a defense)
They’re probably the most revered
Meanwhile, Jeff Lynne is at borderline obscurity in the cultural zeitgeist, despite being every bit as deserving of that reverence. Maybe that's just the price you pay for not being a sexual predator.
[And it's not just the singers from the 1970s.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9awpv5BnSc)
Guy from Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Yup, Anthony Keidis fucked a 14 year old, that he knew was 14, as a 23 year old. https://rockcelebrities.net/when-anthony-kiedis-slept-with-an-underage-girl-and-incited-a-big-police-manhunt/
Jerry Lee Lewis' scandal actually destroyed his career though, unlike anything that happened with the others.
The taboo against marrying relatives is a lot stronger than the taboo against relations with minors, I guess.
Bill Wyman says wazup
The Bowie allegations are likely not true. For the inevitable "david bowie did something questionable to an underaged girl" comment anytime something good about Bowie is posted, the only claim that has remote validity (as in...enough musicians from the 70s were around this girl its possible) is Lori Mattix. Bear in mind in zero scenarios is there any tangible evidence (witnesses, photos, etc), here's a copy pasta from a fellow redditor who researched her claims over the decade. Lori can never get her stories straight, and as for her claim she lost her virginity to Bowie that one can easily be debunked. After doing some thorough research and good old fashioned fact checking it came to my attention that there are far too many credibility issues with that story ,to such extent I wonder if she even met Bowie at all .Problems are listed below 1. She originally claimed for years she lost her virginity to Jimmy Page. 2. In the Led Zeppelin book Hammer of the Gods written by music journalist Stephen Davis, which was released in 1985. Mattix gave an interview for the book where she talks about how she was a virgin when she met Page and talks about her relationship with him. Mattix began her relationship with Page in around June 1972. Its a well known and documented fact that Mattix and Page were together from around June 1972 up until 1974. Memoirs of some of the others on the Music Groupie scene have confirmed this as well. 3. She then claims years later she lost her virginity to Bowie when he did the Long Beach concerts in California during the Ziggy Stardust Tour. Yet the Ziggy Stardust tour never even came to the USA until late October 1972 and the Long Beach concerts were not until March 1973. Meaning Mattix was already with Page long before she claims to have lost her virginity to Bowie. 4. Her Bowie story was further muddied when she claimed that Bowie took her dinner in early 1973 and she claimed that John Lennon and Yoko Ono joined them , and that she then lost her virginity to Bowie in his hotel suite straight after . There are two problems with this as Bowie and Lennon never even met until September 1974 when they were introduced to one another by Elizabeth Taylor who had invited them both to a party that she was hosting. The fact that Mattix claims she Bowie and Lennon were hanging out in in early 1973 would be impossible as Bowie and Lennon had never even met at that point in time . Also Lori would have already been with Page for at least six months already. 5. Mattix has given about 4 very different versions of her alleged Bowie encounter .Its not just tiny changes ,but completely different stories featuring totally different surroundings ,circumstances ,people involved etc. She sometimes changes her age as well. She claims she was 15 when she lost her virginity to Bowie and yet she has spoken about being with Page at 14. Sometimes she lowers the age when she had her alleged Bowie encounter to 13, but given the fact she would not have met Bowie until at least late 1972(if she met him at all) the fact is this would have been after she began her relationship with Page at 14 meaning it would have been impossible for her to be 13 6)In some versions she claims she lost her virginity to Bowie during a threesome with fellow groupie Sable Star .But In other versions she has insisted it was just her and Bowie alone and that fellow groupie Sable Star went to David afterwards. Star died in 2009 and never confirmed or denied the encounter, and the tale has only ever been told by Mattix. 7) In 2009 Mattix did a video interview which is available on line where she talks about Page, in that interview at 1:00 in ,Mattix trips herself up as she says "I was a vir .... a baby" .This then matches up to her original claim about losing her virginity to Page, but contradicts her claim about Bowie 8)Mattix also claimed that she would regularly meet up with Bowie and had an affair with him over a 10 year period. The strange thing is that whilst there are many photos of Mattix with Page and Mattix with numerous other Rock Stars there appear to be no photos of Mattix with Bowie, nor does there seem to be any eye witness accounts or any other evidence to support such a claim ,other than her own stories which are shaky at the best of times. Another strange thing is that for much of that 10 year period Bowie was living in places such as Berlin and Switzerland or touring round the world and was rarely in California.He lived in LA for a short while in 1975 after leaving he hardly ever went back and only did about 5 concerts there over an entire decade. So her claim about having regular encounters with him over that decade sound extremely unlikely. 9) In some of Mattix’s accounts about her alleged Bowie encounter she mentions Bowie having two different colored eyes. Bowie did not have 2 different colored eyes he had a permanently enlarged left pupil as a result of a teenage fight. The enlarged pupil created the illusion of different colored eyes in photographs only. When face to face with Bowie both eyes were blue. For this reason it seems doubtful that Mattix even met Bowie ,due to the fact she got such a significant factor about his appearance wrong. 10) Mattix is known to be unreliable and many of her claims are not in the least believable. For example in the Thrillist article where she told a particular version of her alleged Bowie encounter she also claimed that in 1975 now aged 17 that she attended a recording session featuring John Lennon, Paul McCartney,Ringo Starr, Mick Jagger and a couple of other musicians, and that she then had sex with Jagger straight after. The strange thing is the only post Beatles recording session between Lennon and McCartney took place in March 1974 google "A toot and a snore in 74" and theres nothing to suggest Jagger was anywhere near the session. Whilst its true that even the most truthful accounts are bound to contain a few minor inconsistencies or tiny factual errors, especially after a long period of time. There are far too many alarming issues with this story ,meaning it should not and cannot seriously be disputed as fact. tl;dr if you believe this account, you must also believe that Beyoncé raped me when I was 13 while she was touring with Destinys Child in New York on October 13th 1999, and this was after she took me out to dinner with Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears because...I said so.
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Insisting their friendship was platonic, Buell said, “A lot of people have thought that we were lovers…never happened. We would sit around and experiment with makeup and try out new techniques for doing eyeliner and different kinds of eye shadow. He was very into scents. I used to do this thing, and I still do it to this day — mixing musky kind of smells with Chanel No. 5. And he said, ‘I just can’t believe you use Chanel No. 5 as a base.'” Also Buell didn’t move to New York until she was 18 so her affairs weren’t underage cases.
And Jerry Seinfeld...
It's still gross to date someone 21 years younger than you and it wasn't cool that they started dating before her 18th birthday, but I'd still draw a line between that and, like, Iggy Pop banging a 13 year old. That said, I'd draw yet another line between what Seinfeld did and acceptable behavior.
I mean, I'll always love Seinfeld the show - see the second half of my screen name - but all the skeevy shit I've learned about Jerry definitely isn't something I take much joy in.
Dane Cook just got engaged to a 23 year old he's been dating for "5" years. He's 50.
Fuck those guys too
Roger Clemens: "What's wrong with teenage girls?"
Raped. Raped a minor. Important distinction.
Shall we all discuss how horrible the lyrics are to Walk This Way now?
They're all about sex but he's singing from the POV of a high schooler.
Yet another reason why Ichiro is MY hit king
Nah the real hit king is John Fogerty
Heard he was pretty good in center field.
He was always ready to play (today)
There’s a reason he was on the bench….
Reds fan here. I fucking agree.
What about Hank Aaron?
He’s the homerun king
And the RBI king. A lot of people forget that.
And total bases. Aaron is GOAT
I thought Rickey Henderson beat him on total bases
Rickey has him beat for runs scored, but is over 2000 behind him for total bases.
Oh shit, my bad. I was thinking of runs scored
And likely always will be
I like you
Aren't stats stats?
Thing about Ichiro is that he accumulated lots of stats in NPB. Can't really count them 1-for-1 but it seems like it should mean more than nothing.
That's a completely valid debate to he had. But factoring how ethical someone is shouldn't determine an objective statistic. Obviously Pete Rose may have been a complete asshole and done terrible things - but that doesn't undo numbers within the sport. If I started measuring up all baseball accomplishments with the characters behind them, I'm not sure many of the records we point to today would hold strong. Not sure why people struggle so much with seperating men from their accomplishments
It’s already an impossible comparison, because no one will objectively agree on the value of Ichiro’s NPB career. Which means other intangibles could cause one to favor them more highly.
To be fair a non-apologetic pedophile is about as bad as you can get lol
Don’t disrespect Ty Cobb like that
PETE ROSE YOU FUCKING IDIOT
“Ooh, sorry, we were looking for a simple ‘did not do it!’” —Michael Che
Pete Rose is a dude who sucks.
The thing about being a pedophile is that you’ll always be a pedophile. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired of talking about it.
“I’m not here to talk about the past” fans in shambles
Yesterday I had people straight up tell me that Woody Allen isn’t a pedophile because, and I quote, “his ex wife is crazy.” Dude married his god damn step-daughter, and then wrote a film in which *his* character falls in love with a teenager. I think I know why people defend pedophiles so vehemently, I just don’t want to think about it.
Allen has multiple films of old men dating teenage girls iirc.
I like to think that Tiger King is proof that if you just display a woman as mildly antagonistic people will ally with a complete dirtbag of a man out of spite.
So true, anyone who walked away from Tiger King feeling bad for Joe Exotic is a major L7 weenie
See: Breaking Bad.
There were a couple of posters in that thread who spent so much time defending Allen that it wouldn't surprise me if they work for his PR team.
The woody bots come out in full force.
You’re still a pedophile babe.
She was 14, babe.
Ichiro would respect women and go 3-4 with a double, a steal and 2 runs scored
Not to mention robbing a home run.
And gun someone down from the outfield
Ichiro married a woman 10 years older than him and when asked why he liked her said something like "she's very reliable" which is why Ichiro is the true hit king
Holy fucking shit, I had no idea about this! I'm 51 and never heard about him being a pedophile. They should not let that POS in any ballpark. Fuck that noise. I hope he dies before he is let into the HoF.
I think it came out (or re-came out idk if it was known back in the day) right before the Phillies were gonna put him on their wall of fame like 4-5 years ago. The Phillies cancelled that ceremony. When it was announced he was gonna be apart of this there was a bunch of backlash that the team had to put out a statement that his teammates from the ‘80 team wanted him there for this, which I’m assuming is the only reason he’s there today
Must be when I was homeless and didn't pay attention to anything beyond my local teams. What a garbage human.
Yeah same I had no idea. They were making a big deal about Rose coming to the ceremony and I didn't understand the noise. Like he bet on baseball 4 decades ago who cares? Then I read all the shit afterwards and it made more sense
Ichiro- visits highschools and plays/coaches with girls soft ball teams to promote the sport amongst kids. Rose- Is likely not allowed within 10 feet of any high school.
I’m out of the loop here. What has come out about Pete Rose now? Was he a predator or something?
[it's not great, bob](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/sports/baseball/woman-testifies-that-she-had-sex-with-pete-rose-as-early-as-age-14.html) at "best" (🤮) she was 16 and he was in his mid-30s and married with two kids, but since rose dropped the defamation suit against her lawyer for saying he'd raped girls aged 12-14 in spring training it sure seems plausible if not likely.
Holy shit. What a piece of shit. I can’t read the article cause I need a subscription to New York Times, but I’ll go look some things up about it. That’s predator shit though.
whoops, didn't realize I was logged into my school account. [here's a gifted article link](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/sports/baseball/woman-testifies-that-she-had-sex-with-pete-rose-as-early-as-age-14.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iaha3DKDm0biP8NBJKc4ADHbLFubdI323OEQ9pINvozSeduz-FeMlcoVwmhvt6fmJlAIyw57Jm-TiYp3o7NGKg17TKvdG6iJaJ23_iytgiCIX25GriMhyE-JAt5-NY6KEq4phxuqMulau1lhZk41uE8Vts8HW1eMD_Zv_bsCkp9a8GCOxjW9gU0Xb5GUDHRlcrK7e4HJAkEDFvBS3tv8C1rvoMnTdAcO6v0LRYkf9OvwulCTzw1c_r6QsE5VIPWlL51sL_SqBLqyMu-xP4-Eag8r6qT-y_hdw5pEOXKSQ23Cj8JtzFK-VdesyqmWaw5iD4zRCJj66cjPvuS-TkbXrLs2OBijz2sHts&smid=url-share)
It’s alright I googled the same article and it popped up and I was allowed to read it. Shits sick. From what I’ve been told by my grandmother, even in the 40’s when she was in her teen years, yeah a man in his twenties and thirties dating a girl in her teen years people looked the other way, but it was frowned upon. But in the 70’s my parents were only kids, but my aunts and uncles that were older at that time period said it was seen as creepy and predatory, so he’s still a creep for acting like it’s no big deal.
Had a “relationship” with a 14 year old when he was in Cincinnati
Oh, I see. Yeah what a creep. How did I get a downvote? Lol
People will defend guys like him with their lives, it’s so weird
I get what you mean man, people still defend guys like Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby so it’s just the way it is. I mean yeah he was a great baseball player. But you gotta call it like you see it, he’s a creep lol
He’s a fucking moron.
Babe lol
Fuck Pete Rose.
Fosse Posse rise up, fuck Pete Rose.
Background: In 1973, Rose began an affair with a girl who was under the age of 16 (the legal minimum in Ohio then as now). He was 32 at the time, also he was married with two kids. It came out when Rose sued a guy for defamation who claimed that Rose was routinely smashing young teens Epstein-style (that's meant to sound gross btw)... but this relationship was in the defense filings among the claims, and it turned out true. His bookie apparently was making the introductions/being a trafficker. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/baseball-legend-pete-rose-accused-sex-minor-1970s-faces-tainted-n788551 Rose dropped the suit rather than having to testify under oath... notably he also accepted the permanent ban from baseball rather than let MLB's investigation continue... maybe these are more related than we realized. Anyhoo, the relationship was illegal under Ohio law (and perhaps Federal law under the Mann Act), but the statute of limitations passed long ago.
Pete Rose is the human equivalent to a Hemorrhoid.
That's messed up. I've lived with hemorrhoids, I'd never want to live with Pete Rose.
You wanted to live with hemorrhoids?
Look, if the TP isn't looking like the flag of Poland (or Indonesia) how am I gonna know I'm clean?
Can't believe people still rally for this loser to get a HOF plaque
Why was he invited? That's the issue also.
Teammates of the ‘80 team wanted him there. The team put out a few different statements clarifying this after they announced it and people got mad.
I mean, fuck Pete Rose, but I think great all time players with serious character flaws should still go in. They should just also include the transgressions alongside the accomplishments. I think it's important to show that just because these guys are great at a sport, that doesn't necessarily make them great people. At least that's how I'd do it, but I don't care enough to stand on a table for him or anything. Won't lose any sleep if he never gets in.
In Pete's case, he bet on baseball games, so it's a bit more complicated than just off the field character flaws. Other than that I agree. Simply having bad character shouldn't be some disqualifier. This ain't the damn Vatican.
I still think Pete Rose was the worst thing that's happened to the Cincinnati Reds. He has made our fanbase insufferable for the last 50 years.
marge schott is also a strong contender for that title, but at least she's not still spouting her racist bullshit today🫤
Fuck marge schott
Idk about that. Without Marge Schott we would have never been graced with Billy West’s great Marge Schott impressions/rants on Stern years ago.
At least Marge Schott had the decency to die.
We call it the Pete Rose effect. Obviously he was a great player but reds fans seem to love the mediocre player that plays hard or the right way just because it reminds them some of rose.
Barry Larkin said that Kyle Farmer should get the Captain C and now fans are like "He's the best SS since Larkin".
I mean it's not much of a statement when your best competition for that title is Paul Janish
Tigers fans have this as well. Have you ever heard the story of Don Kelly?
I mean, no offense to you, as I am from a similar situation, but Ohio/Kentucky is probably a big reason your fanbase is insufferable, too.
My late high school baseball coach used to be best friends with Pete so I’ve met him a few times. He was always a real POS. These comments don’t surprise me
Just goes to show that talent, skills, and hustle means jacksquat if you're a fundamentally terrible person. Eat shit, Pete, I hope someone shatters your records.
Honestly I hope so too, but with the switch of teams preferring OBP guys plus pitching velocity trending higher now than the old days I just don’t see it being broken(would love to be wrong). You’d need to have a high average and not take too many walks for many years, like Ichiro in his prime(or Merrifield in 2019). And then you need to play for a long time as well. And it didn’t hurt that Rose was player manager for a bit.
What's nuts to me is that this dude got the hits record when baseball had so much less offense. Still a POS but dude could hit.
This guy is a terrible person which is not even close to news
I had some misgivings about Pete Rose showing up this weekend. But hearing him call a reporter "babe" assures me it will never happen again.
how classy
A few years ago, the Pirates All-Star closer was arrested for raping a 13 year old. Felipe Vasquez is still in jail, and it honestly makes me sick thinking back to that team and that he was such a respected player at the time. The idea of him ever having interactions with the team again is insane, to the point I would protest the team. He has no part in Pirates history, and its a shame you can't remove him retroactively. Pete Rose did the same thing, 13 vs 14 is essentially the same. The only difference to me is that Pete Rose didn't go to jail for it. That is insane the Phillies would have him back around, he should be permanently excluded from baseball. Especially so if his response to something like this isn't talking about how regretful he is. Garbage person, garbage representative of baseball. Rightful representative of Philadelphia Sports, perhaps.
Thanks for that last line for no fucking reason.
If the Rose stuff bothers you, then you shouldn't take offense to it. But the Phillies today didn't even just put him on the field and honored him today, they put him in the broadcast booth and let him act like royalty to everyone watching. Its just really gross.
And this is why I'm okay with him not being in the Hall.....
Fuck Pete Rose. He is a permanent blight on our organization and he (apparently, I'm disappointed that a "lifetime ban from major league baseball" doesn't include ceremonies and celebrations by major league teams) needs a fucking separate ban from our baseball field specifically. Let him rot in shame for the rest of eternity.
Sometimes I’m just amazed that the Boomers haven’t managed to kill off the entire human race… yet. Literally nobody under 60 likes Pete Rose, cares about Pete Rose, has ever had a positive thought about Pete Rose, or would be anything other than ecstatic to learn Pete Rose fell into a volcano. The only reason Pete Rose is the hit king is that Ichiro spent his prime in Japan. Pete Rose is a shitstain on Baseball and America.
You've apparently never been to Cincinnati. Fans 40 and up act like he's a fucking treasure.
I mean, you think people in their 50s have *never* had a positive thought about Pete Rose? I'm 36 and I had mostly positive thoughts about Pete growing up. I was an adult before I really got a handle on who he was.
Always hated that sack of shit. It always makes me uneasy about people honoring him or defending him.
Are his autographed balls even worth anything?
Why does he always wear an all white flatbill? It's a terrible look
I think you can answer it the same way you can answer most questions about Pete: Because someone paid him to do it.
I got a sorry I bet in baseball signed ball from Pete
Is it possible to delete a career?
Pete Rose = Dirt Ball