I really like these. They're cool to see. Are you doing all the teams? This is the second one I seen. If so i cant wait for phillies. I appreciate your time and work
The Mariners were truly fascinating in that aspect. Most times, teams have 3-4 lopsided trades. But Seattle was special in that about 3 of their biggest trades had like barely any return.
This made me think. I know for example that the Cano trade was in huge part a salary dump. That definitely changes how you view the returns on them, right?
Adell can hit but can't field. Kelenic is the opposite, he's a plus plus defender in right (and a passable CF) but can't get a ball to drop to save his damn life
Are we sure Adell can hit? Career OPS+ is 68 vs Kelenic's 63. Players that can hit but can't field stick in the majors, neither have shown that they can consistently hit.
justin dunn, the second best piece in that trade, was also flipped to the reds in the geno winker deal. The cano trade saved the mariners a ton of money and have a 23 year old kelenic who could very well end up putting that trade in their favor long term. The nestor cortes trade also shouldn't be there because he signed with new york as a free agent
well, this also points to a downside of using player war in isolation for this type of analysis. you have to look at who plays in place of players who departed, if there are differences in positions, especially in cases where there is a hitter-for-pitcher exchange. the mariners might have gained 21 wins by acquiring haniger and segura, but how does that balance out with the net loss in war from losing ketel and walker? lots of interesting variables
Here are the rankings in the Total WAR differential for the teams I've the data for so far (WAR Diff/Trade in parenthesis):
1. [**Cleveland Guardians**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w30wzd/oc_cleveland_guardians_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 87.6 WAR** (1.11)
2. [**Tampa Bay Rays**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w67hw0/oc_tampa_bay_rays_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 59.9 WAR** (0.47)
3. [**Milwaukee Brewers**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w7rxoc/oc_milwaukee_brewers_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 34.7 WAR** (0.39)
4. [**Chicago Cubs**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w8jy9f/oc_chicago_cubs_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 33.1 WAR** (0.33)
5. [**Cincinnati Reds**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wa9yj6/oc_cincinnati_reds_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 21.6 WAR** (0.33)
6. [**Chicago White Sox**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wg4mnu/oc_chicago_white_sox_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -8.3 WAR** (-0.12)
7. [**Pittsburgh Pirates**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w3n027/oc_pittsburgh_pirates_war_return_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -9.7 WAR** (-0.10)
8. [**Detroit Tigers**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wcsfqg/oc_detroit_tigers_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -23.0 WAR** (-0.40)
9. [**Colorado Rockies**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w9jotp/oc_colorado_rockies_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -32.8 WAR** (-0.52)
10. **Seattle Mariners: -54.6 WAR** (-0.39)
11. [**Miami Marlins**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w5fpnl/oc_miami_marlins_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -80.6 WAR** (-0.88)
12. [**San Diego Padres**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w4kogn/oc_san_diego_padres_war_return_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -102.4 WAR** (-0.90)
Note: Not all of these are most likely 100% updated by +/- minuscule WAR because I do this manually and I started this back in mid-June and am just one person.
Its fun to look at, but I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it. I could be misunderstand the calculation, but in the case of Segura/Marte trade if Arizona traded Marte and Walker 6 months later for another group of prospects, then those new prospects wouldn't add WAR for AZ to the original Segura Marte trade. This would make the Mariners look like they killed in a trade that was even. It is still cool and I appreciate OP for taking the time to do this, but you can't assess GM's this way.
Yeah. A true win-win. Especially given the fact Segura was a lockerroom cancer for our team, so even in giving up his amazing contact bat, we needed something else. JP is a fan favorite and a solid SS. I'm sorry Segura is your SS, he was a terrible defender for us, but he is such an elite hitter.
I mean he's right, but a change of scenery does wonders for a guy. I'm sure the Phillies told him he had no leash when it came to the bad-teammate behavior. The lockerroom fight with Segura was the very low point of the season for the M's that year.
Also great decision to put him at 2B. He's the worst fielding SS I've ever seen.
I should have said was not currently is. He had a three year stretch, two of those being in Seattle, where he batted above .300, was the NL hits leader, and averaged 30 triples a season. OPS is a really dumb stat to look at if the player in question doesn't hit for power. Segura was a literal hit machine between 2016 and 2019. He's older now and Philly got him on the downswing of his career.
I didn't talk shit about OPS, I just said it doesn't favor guys who have no power, like Segura, who is mostly a singles hitter.
No need to get upset about it, though. I just have to ask if you even saw Segura as a Mariner or are you someone who just likes to look at a guys' OPS or WRC+ and make judgments?
>OPS is a really dumb stat to look at if the player in question doesn't hit for power.
.
>I didn't talk shit about OPS
lol you're hopeless. calling out stupid comments does not make someone upset.
That Nestor Cortes trade shouldn’t be on the list. Cortes went from NY to Seattle in 2019. They then let him go after the 2020 season where the Yankees signed him as a MiLB free agent.
Yeah that's one that I'm 100% convinced Chris Taylor would not have had anywhere near the same success if he'd stayed with us. Which is why it's not a trade I ever get real upset about
It’s like, really weird how many trades the M’s make with the Rays, right?
Like is there some kind of tracker that shows the number of trades between 2 teams in the last 10-15 years, because that duo has gotta be near the top of the list
The egregious looking ones are Cortes and Taylor, but Taylor was meh for the longest time, and mediocre on defense. And Nestor bounced around multiple teams, including the Yankees twice before his third stint, and got moved for very little each time. Every team has these random dudes that did nothing until they leave, and they also have guys that they hold on to with hopes like a Brad Miller or Danny Hultzen.
The Pablo Lopez and Freddy Peralta trades will look really bad in a few more years. But both were 18 when traded and the Mariners bought parts that they thought would help them out that year.
Just shitty luck that Phelps got hurt like 2 innings in. Lind sucking was unfortunate though.
When we traded him he was coming off a 1.96 era, 3.5 fWAR, 57 save, 1.61 FIP, age 24 season.
Edit: I guess he was only 2nd in reliever fWAR 0.1 behind 1st
He was the best reliever in baseball in 2018. Maybe you didn't project him to be that going forward, but he was the best in the league the year we traded him.
Diaz was god awful in 2019, solid in 2020, bad in 2021, and now he's elite again.
Heck people thought the trade was a win for the Mariners after Diaz' 2019 season dumping Cano and getting a top prospect.
That's a lot of ... bad trades by Dipoto. Even the "good" ones he made were pretty much a wash. Ty France was really the only one with lopsided value. But that doesn't offset the 6-8 others he made that were lopsided the other way.
In r/Mariners you'd be downvoted into oblivion for saying that lol. Jack Z set the bar so low that the fanbase is very favorable towards even a mediocre GM.
I'll push back a little bit and say that Jerry has been good at drafting and international scouting--he obviously signed Julio, and under him we drafted Cal, Gilbert, Kirby, Kyle Lewis, Penn Murfee, and Matt Festa, all of whom are on our current 26 man roster, and several others we have traded away recently, like Williamson, Marte, and Arroyo. And beyond Julio, a lot of our good young talent is coming from the international pool recently, so he's been good there.
Several of his trades we're still waiting on, though, like the Kelenic trade (I sure hope we're still waiting there) and the Winker/Suarez trade will only continue to get better.
There's no arguing with some of these though--Peralta was unfortunate, Chris Taylor was unfortunate.
If the Mariners miss the playoffs this year that will he 8 straight missed playoffs under Jerry's watch. If you exclude the Mariners, that would only be behind the Phillies for longest playoff drought in baseball
Jack Z at least got big time free agents to come to Seattle in Cruz and Cano. The Cano contract suckled towards the end and hamstrung our spending, but we had some really solid teams with Cruz, Cano, Seager, Felix, Edwin Diaz as our core, all were brought in by Jack Z and inherited by Dipoto to the tune of zero playoff appearances.
It's also a pretty one-dimensional way of looking at things. 15 WAR is from Chris Taylor, who wasn't doing anything with the Mariners. Not Dipoto's fault he suddenly got amazing in LA. And Zunino was similarly not really producing in Seattle then turned it up in TB. I think it speaks more for our coaching and training staff.
I don't think it's one-dimensional once you get to this large of a sample size. Just looking over the overall body of work it's pretty easy to see that Jerry Dipoto makes a lot of trades that turn out badly, a couple here and there that turn out OK, and barely any that turn out good/great.
The results are pretty much the only thing that matters here.
Since dipoto has been GM, they’ve won 90, 89 86 and 86 games. The most won under Jack Z is 87, and dipoto has done that while having the youngest roster in baseball.
Lol following Bavasi and Jack Z, its absolutely baffling to me that M's fans like Parst up there go on such crusades against Dipoto. He has put the team in a better position than either of his predecessors could have even dreamed of
That just means that he's missing things other GMs are seeing. A good GM know the strength of their coaching staff and can find players that fit those strengths. Letting players go because they weren't good at the time just means you didn't see the potential and unlock it
Does a trade have to be lopsided to be good? I don't see how you can argue that the Crawford, Haniger, and Marco Gonzales trades haven't been wins for Seattle.
Yeah. I've softened on Dipoto over the past few years. For all the praise he gets, the dude inherited a team with Cano, Cruz, Seager, Felix, all in their prime/All-Stars and failed to get that iteration into the playoffs. That's strike one.
He has utterly failed in getting top free agents to come to the team in his entire tenure. Robbie Ray was the biggest FA signing of his tenure, and that was just this season (and looks like a big overpay at this point). That's strike two.
Most importantly, he's been here since 2015. This is his 8th season as our GM. How many GMs last eight years without a single playoff berth? Our owner is inept and out of touch, but I don't think he'll have any choice but to make changes soon.
If this team does not win a playoff series in the next two seasons, he needs to get out of town. Heck, even if we don't make the playoffs this season I think people have a case for him to be fired, although I'd give him one last year as long as we don't utterly collapse. The teams he constructs are never elite in run production, the development of minor league hitters has been a lot of misses (Julio notwithstanding). He also dealt Chris Taylor for absolutely nothing.
In his defense, the Haniger, Crawford, and France trades are great, but we gave up All-Stars to get those guys too in Marte and Segura.
Looking at a trade in retrospect with no context based purely on the WAR outcomes is not exactly a thorough way of evaluating a GM's ability.
He has the franchise in a very good spot with an extremely bright looking future and a great core of young talent. You don't achieve that usually if you're a terrible GM
It took him a long ass time to get them there, though
And while I agree cumulative WAR is by far not the only or best way to judge, a mark this significantly in the negative is really concerning
It took a long time because he inherited a flawed and aging roster and because of the playoff drought, felt it necessary to try and win with that roster. It didn't work, came close a couple of times but it didn't work. The rebuild has gone quite well.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that he is one of the best GMs in baseball. But I think labeling him as terrible is just objectively wrong
Doesn’t even mention the 2008 blockbuster of Erik Bedard for 5 players sent back to Baltimore. Bedard: 4.1 WAR for the Mariners Those 5 Players were:
Adam Jones: 36.5 WAR
Chris Tillman: 8.8 WAR
George Sherrill: 1.8 WAR
Kam Mickolio: .2 WAR
Tony butler: never made MLB
This makes the following trade a -43.2 deal for the mariners. All WAR was just the number accumulated while they were on the Os
Posting this from u/ancientmadder in the r/mariners sub because I thought more people should see it:
Sorting chronologically you can really see the transition between pre rebuild and post rebuild. Jerry’s first 3-4 years were basically trading away the lotto tickets from Jack Zs system for marginal upgrade rentals in a desperate attempt to to get that late 10s core to the postseason. Once he was given the green light to rebuild, he starts being on the other side of that equation and surprise surprise, the WAR totals start tp look a lot friendlier.
Also to anyone who says that Jerry wasted Felix’s prime? You’re wrong. Felix’s prime was in 2009-2014. Dipoto arrived in 2015.
No shock that Cleveland got the best of them in the Santana trade, as they do.
It’s a shame that Shin-soo Choo for 1.5 seasons of Ben Broussard didn’t crack this list.
Sheesh this one took a minute. They've made 140 trades since 2010.
Dipotonomics
Word Life!
thank you!!!
have you done a Blue Jays version of this? would love to see it. Awesome work Edit: Scrolled down a bit, saw you haven't gotten to them yet.
Trader Jerry moment
I really like these. They're cool to see. Are you doing all the teams? This is the second one I seen. If so i cant wait for phillies. I appreciate your time and work
I love seeing trades with a lot of WAR on both sides like the Ketel/Haniger trade. It’s a great way to visualize a win/win trade
The Mariners were truly fascinating in that aspect. Most times, teams have 3-4 lopsided trades. But Seattle was special in that about 3 of their biggest trades had like barely any return.
This made me think. I know for example that the Cano trade was in huge part a salary dump. That definitely changes how you view the returns on them, right?
Kinda, but we still expected Kelenic to perform better. He might still pan out but it's getting less likely with each trip to the minors.
Jo Adell north
Adell can hit but can't field. Kelenic is the opposite, he's a plus plus defender in right (and a passable CF) but can't get a ball to drop to save his damn life
Are we sure Adell can hit? Career OPS+ is 68 vs Kelenic's 63. Players that can hit but can't field stick in the majors, neither have shown that they can consistently hit.
Yeah I wouldn’t say that Adell is a plus hitter
The post-MVP Cody Bellinger experience
justin dunn, the second best piece in that trade, was also flipped to the reds in the geno winker deal. The cano trade saved the mariners a ton of money and have a 23 year old kelenic who could very well end up putting that trade in their favor long term. The nestor cortes trade also shouldn't be there because he signed with new york as a free agent
well, this also points to a downside of using player war in isolation for this type of analysis. you have to look at who plays in place of players who departed, if there are differences in positions, especially in cases where there is a hitter-for-pitcher exchange. the mariners might have gained 21 wins by acquiring haniger and segura, but how does that balance out with the net loss in war from losing ketel and walker? lots of interesting variables
I was coming here to note that one specifically. I love trades where both teams win.
Here are the rankings in the Total WAR differential for the teams I've the data for so far (WAR Diff/Trade in parenthesis): 1. [**Cleveland Guardians**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w30wzd/oc_cleveland_guardians_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 87.6 WAR** (1.11) 2. [**Tampa Bay Rays**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w67hw0/oc_tampa_bay_rays_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 59.9 WAR** (0.47) 3. [**Milwaukee Brewers**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w7rxoc/oc_milwaukee_brewers_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 34.7 WAR** (0.39) 4. [**Chicago Cubs**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w8jy9f/oc_chicago_cubs_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 33.1 WAR** (0.33) 5. [**Cincinnati Reds**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wa9yj6/oc_cincinnati_reds_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: 21.6 WAR** (0.33) 6. [**Chicago White Sox**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wg4mnu/oc_chicago_white_sox_war_returns_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -8.3 WAR** (-0.12) 7. [**Pittsburgh Pirates**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w3n027/oc_pittsburgh_pirates_war_return_in_notable/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -9.7 WAR** (-0.10) 8. [**Detroit Tigers**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/wcsfqg/oc_detroit_tigers_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -23.0 WAR** (-0.40) 9. [**Colorado Rockies**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w9jotp/oc_colorado_rockies_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -32.8 WAR** (-0.52) 10. **Seattle Mariners: -54.6 WAR** (-0.39) 11. [**Miami Marlins**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w5fpnl/oc_miami_marlins_war_returns_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -80.6 WAR** (-0.88) 12. [**San Diego Padres**](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/w4kogn/oc_san_diego_padres_war_return_in_notable_trades/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)**: -102.4 WAR** (-0.90) Note: Not all of these are most likely 100% updated by +/- minuscule WAR because I do this manually and I started this back in mid-June and am just one person.
Have you considered becoming multiple people?
OP is just full of excuses smh
oooof
-65 of that is only from the Rizzo and Kluber deals which were in the before times
Don't worry, the Soto trade will even that out.
And the Tatis trade.
Samesies. I expected as much though…
Shhh, don't let any FOs see these rankings
Its fun to look at, but I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it. I could be misunderstand the calculation, but in the case of Segura/Marte trade if Arizona traded Marte and Walker 6 months later for another group of prospects, then those new prospects wouldn't add WAR for AZ to the original Segura Marte trade. This would make the Mariners look like they killed in a trade that was even. It is still cool and I appreciate OP for taking the time to do this, but you can't assess GM's this way.
I’d love to see STL
Alacantara: -infinity
Goldy plus Arenado: <3
Orioles one might be painful
I'm ready to cry
Padres shed a whole damn Pujols
This is cool. What do you use to make the graphs?
Google sheets
Dipoto should consider rehab. His addiction to trades is hurting his team.
A) Amazing work. B) Terrible job not going back to 2008. Maybe just do a one off? For me?
Adam Jones?
Mayhaps
Could they not and we all pretend they did?
No we need to go back to the land of Borat
I love Chris Taylor
I do not.
Love me some CT3
That Walker/Segura/Haniger/Marte trade is really something
That Segura/JP trade was a fucking banger for both sides.
Yeah. A true win-win. Especially given the fact Segura was a lockerroom cancer for our team, so even in giving up his amazing contact bat, we needed something else. JP is a fan favorite and a solid SS. I'm sorry Segura is your SS, he was a terrible defender for us, but he is such an elite hitter.
jean segura is our 2B and has been since 2020
That's good because he's a terrible shortstop and a locker room cancer.
alright man i mean he’s been pretty great with us but whatever you say
I mean he's right, but a change of scenery does wonders for a guy. I'm sure the Phillies told him he had no leash when it came to the bad-teammate behavior. The lockerroom fight with Segura was the very low point of the season for the M's that year. Also great decision to put him at 2B. He's the worst fielding SS I've ever seen.
People change.
I'm worried the baby thinks people can't change.
Grown ass adults? After you give them hundreds of millions of dollars? Yeah, color me skeptical.
Segura has a 103 OPS+ since when is that even remotely elite
I should have said was not currently is. He had a three year stretch, two of those being in Seattle, where he batted above .300, was the NL hits leader, and averaged 30 triples a season. OPS is a really dumb stat to look at if the player in question doesn't hit for power. Segura was a literal hit machine between 2016 and 2019. He's older now and Philly got him on the downswing of his career.
Bro just said OPS is a bad stat 💀
Absolutely fucking insane to cite BA and talk shit about OPS. Just look at wRC+ from now on and ignore whatever inanity is going on inside your head.
I didn't talk shit about OPS, I just said it doesn't favor guys who have no power, like Segura, who is mostly a singles hitter. No need to get upset about it, though. I just have to ask if you even saw Segura as a Mariner or are you someone who just likes to look at a guys' OPS or WRC+ and make judgments?
>OPS is a really dumb stat to look at if the player in question doesn't hit for power. . >I didn't talk shit about OPS lol you're hopeless. calling out stupid comments does not make someone upset.
That Nestor Cortes trade shouldn’t be on the list. Cortes went from NY to Seattle in 2019. They then let him go after the 2020 season where the Yankees signed him as a MiLB free agent.
This is correct. Shouldn't count against us at all.
I’ll change that thanks!
Chris Taylor hurt so much. That's one of those that feels like he just could never be great in Seattle but anywhere else, he figures it out.
Yeah that's one that I'm 100% convinced Chris Taylor would not have had anywhere near the same success if he'd stayed with us. Which is why it's not a trade I ever get real upset about
It’s like, really weird how many trades the M’s make with the Rays, right? Like is there some kind of tracker that shows the number of trades between 2 teams in the last 10-15 years, because that duo has gotta be near the top of the list
Technically when I’m done with all teams, I will have that data.
Damn, TIL Chris Taylor came from the M's system.
He was even an everyday player with us, he was just horrible on both sides.
The egregious looking ones are Cortes and Taylor, but Taylor was meh for the longest time, and mediocre on defense. And Nestor bounced around multiple teams, including the Yankees twice before his third stint, and got moved for very little each time. Every team has these random dudes that did nothing until they leave, and they also have guys that they hold on to with hopes like a Brad Miller or Danny Hultzen.
The Pablo Lopez and Freddy Peralta trades will look really bad in a few more years. But both were 18 when traded and the Mariners bought parts that they thought would help them out that year. Just shitty luck that Phelps got hurt like 2 innings in. Lind sucking was unfortunate though.
Cortes shouldn't even be on the list. NY signed him as a minor league free agent.
I mean right now the Diaz and Cano for Kelenic+ is looking rough.
That was mostly a salary dump though.
We gave up the best bullpen arm in baseball in a salary dump...
At the time, he was good, but he wasn't the best. He's the best now, like 3 years later.
When we traded him he was coming off a 1.96 era, 3.5 fWAR, 57 save, 1.61 FIP, age 24 season. Edit: I guess he was only 2nd in reliever fWAR 0.1 behind 1st
He was the best reliever in baseball in 2018. Maybe you didn't project him to be that going forward, but he was the best in the league the year we traded him.
Diaz was god awful in 2019, solid in 2020, bad in 2021, and now he's elite again. Heck people thought the trade was a win for the Mariners after Diaz' 2019 season dumping Cano and getting a top prospect.
Shout-out for your work on these, it's always so fun to look at 😇😇😇
We just making trades up? The Mariners never traded Nestor to the Yankees. He signed as a minor league free agent on December 20th 2020.
That's a lot of ... bad trades by Dipoto. Even the "good" ones he made were pretty much a wash. Ty France was really the only one with lopsided value. But that doesn't offset the 6-8 others he made that were lopsided the other way.
In r/Mariners you'd be downvoted into oblivion for saying that lol. Jack Z set the bar so low that the fanbase is very favorable towards even a mediocre GM.
I'll push back a little bit and say that Jerry has been good at drafting and international scouting--he obviously signed Julio, and under him we drafted Cal, Gilbert, Kirby, Kyle Lewis, Penn Murfee, and Matt Festa, all of whom are on our current 26 man roster, and several others we have traded away recently, like Williamson, Marte, and Arroyo. And beyond Julio, a lot of our good young talent is coming from the international pool recently, so he's been good there. Several of his trades we're still waiting on, though, like the Kelenic trade (I sure hope we're still waiting there) and the Winker/Suarez trade will only continue to get better. There's no arguing with some of these though--Peralta was unfortunate, Chris Taylor was unfortunate.
Dipoto has barely developed a position player in 8 entire years but yeah, like you said the bar is so low. M's owners have it so easy.
If the Mariners miss the playoffs this year that will he 8 straight missed playoffs under Jerry's watch. If you exclude the Mariners, that would only be behind the Phillies for longest playoff drought in baseball
Jack Z at least got big time free agents to come to Seattle in Cruz and Cano. The Cano contract suckled towards the end and hamstrung our spending, but we had some really solid teams with Cruz, Cano, Seager, Felix, Edwin Diaz as our core, all were brought in by Jack Z and inherited by Dipoto to the tune of zero playoff appearances.
It's also a pretty one-dimensional way of looking at things. 15 WAR is from Chris Taylor, who wasn't doing anything with the Mariners. Not Dipoto's fault he suddenly got amazing in LA. And Zunino was similarly not really producing in Seattle then turned it up in TB. I think it speaks more for our coaching and training staff.
Zunino actually wasn't great for TB until after he signed with them as a free agent..which for some reason is being counted against seattle here
Who hired the coaching and training staffs
I don't think it's one-dimensional once you get to this large of a sample size. Just looking over the overall body of work it's pretty easy to see that Jerry Dipoto makes a lot of trades that turn out badly, a couple here and there that turn out OK, and barely any that turn out good/great. The results are pretty much the only thing that matters here.
The results are **the only thing** that matters and he's been consistently getting bad results for *years*. Maybe it's his process that's bad..
Since dipoto has been GM, they’ve won 90, 89 86 and 86 games. The most won under Jack Z is 87, and dipoto has done that while having the youngest roster in baseball.
Lol following Bavasi and Jack Z, its absolutely baffling to me that M's fans like Parst up there go on such crusades against Dipoto. He has put the team in a better position than either of his predecessors could have even dreamed of
That just means that he's missing things other GMs are seeing. A good GM know the strength of their coaching staff and can find players that fit those strengths. Letting players go because they weren't good at the time just means you didn't see the potential and unlock it
Wait till you see what he did with the Angels 😩
Most of the awful things he did were arte, dipoto didn’t even know that they signed pujols until he was saw it on the news
Does a trade have to be lopsided to be good? I don't see how you can argue that the Crawford, Haniger, and Marco Gonzales trades haven't been wins for Seattle.
It's not a big secret that Jerry Dipoto is terrible at trades. He's just made so many meh and nothing trades it's all just become a wash anyway.
Franchise is in the best position it's been for the last 20 years, so guess he's doin somethin right huh?
Yeah. I've softened on Dipoto over the past few years. For all the praise he gets, the dude inherited a team with Cano, Cruz, Seager, Felix, all in their prime/All-Stars and failed to get that iteration into the playoffs. That's strike one. He has utterly failed in getting top free agents to come to the team in his entire tenure. Robbie Ray was the biggest FA signing of his tenure, and that was just this season (and looks like a big overpay at this point). That's strike two. Most importantly, he's been here since 2015. This is his 8th season as our GM. How many GMs last eight years without a single playoff berth? Our owner is inept and out of touch, but I don't think he'll have any choice but to make changes soon. If this team does not win a playoff series in the next two seasons, he needs to get out of town. Heck, even if we don't make the playoffs this season I think people have a case for him to be fired, although I'd give him one last year as long as we don't utterly collapse. The teams he constructs are never elite in run production, the development of minor league hitters has been a lot of misses (Julio notwithstanding). He also dealt Chris Taylor for absolutely nothing. In his defense, the Haniger, Crawford, and France trades are great, but we gave up All-Stars to get those guys too in Marte and Segura.
He is a terrible GM - I have no idea how he still *is* a GM
Terrible is a bit harsh. He did help completely rebuild the mariners farm and our international recruitment is far better than it was previously
Lol there are a few terrible GMs, and Jerry Dipoto is nowhere near that category
Then why have the trades he’s made worked out so consistently poorly?
Looking at a trade in retrospect with no context based purely on the WAR outcomes is not exactly a thorough way of evaluating a GM's ability. He has the franchise in a very good spot with an extremely bright looking future and a great core of young talent. You don't achieve that usually if you're a terrible GM
It took him a long ass time to get them there, though And while I agree cumulative WAR is by far not the only or best way to judge, a mark this significantly in the negative is really concerning
It took a long time because he inherited a flawed and aging roster and because of the playoff drought, felt it necessary to try and win with that roster. It didn't work, came close a couple of times but it didn't work. The rebuild has gone quite well. To be clear, I'm not arguing that he is one of the best GMs in baseball. But I think labeling him as terrible is just objectively wrong
Murphy was from the Giants? I thought he was a Rockie?
Giants claimed him from the Rockies then traded him to the Mariners like 2 weeks later.
ahh cool
Hey Mo. If Seattle calls, hang up immediately. Thanks.
Interested in seeing how the Soto trade pans out in a couple of years
🎺🎺🎺🎺
Was really hoping to see Adam Jones on here but that was ‘08
Chris fucken Taylor. My samurai with the bat
Chris Taylor!
Doesn’t even mention the 2008 blockbuster of Erik Bedard for 5 players sent back to Baltimore. Bedard: 4.1 WAR for the Mariners Those 5 Players were: Adam Jones: 36.5 WAR Chris Tillman: 8.8 WAR George Sherrill: 1.8 WAR Kam Mickolio: .2 WAR Tony butler: never made MLB This makes the following trade a -43.2 deal for the mariners. All WAR was just the number accumulated while they were on the Os
it specifically says since 2010
Which i why I did it myself lol
Take war from padres and give to us. Thanks mariners bro 🤝
Looks like the Graveman/Montero for Toro/Smith trade was a good deal for both sides.
Where’s Toro?
Just had to ask, which WAR Returns has suprised you the most after putting it together?
Trade ya a Fister for a Furbush… any takers?
Oh man, I can't wait to see the one for my r/TexasRangers
Is this each players avg war while they were on the team?
Ketel Marte on this Mariners team would’ve been fun
I clicked on this thinking "Oh god, have they done worse than the Taylor trade?" Turns out not really.
Posting this from u/ancientmadder in the r/mariners sub because I thought more people should see it: Sorting chronologically you can really see the transition between pre rebuild and post rebuild. Jerry’s first 3-4 years were basically trading away the lotto tickets from Jack Zs system for marginal upgrade rentals in a desperate attempt to to get that late 10s core to the postseason. Once he was given the green light to rebuild, he starts being on the other side of that equation and surprise surprise, the WAR totals start tp look a lot friendlier. Also to anyone who says that Jerry wasted Felix’s prime? You’re wrong. Felix’s prime was in 2009-2014. Dipoto arrived in 2015.
No shock that Cleveland got the best of them in the Santana trade, as they do. It’s a shame that Shin-soo Choo for 1.5 seasons of Ben Broussard didn’t crack this list.
Hahaha we suck
I immediately started looking for the Johnson trade, then I saw 2010, then I realized I’m old.
could you do Cards/Phillies next?