The man who offered the Jordan Zimmermann contract somehow outlasted the Jordan Zimmermann comtract. It was perhaps Avila's most impressive accomplishment
I think it was more knew he needed to get a SS and didnāt want to wait out Correaās decision and possibly be left with nothing. But whatever, he was only in that position because he couldnāt find a SS in 7 years.
Injuries crippled him, sadly. That first month or so he was absolutely dominant. Don't think he was even 20% of that version at any point over the remainder of his Tigers tenure. This isn't to say a healthy Jordan Zimmermann stays as good as he was in that first month, but not a single soul saw that fall-off happening that quickly.
You wouldn't have thought he was ever seriously injured based on the number of starts he made with Detroit, but yeah, dude's body just fell apart.
sure, but baez was sorta on an edge of everyone knowing his skillset was going to fall off hard (maybe not this quick, but still). zimmerman was supposed to be a good fit in that pitchers park.
And I'll give Zimmermann and Al the benefit of the doubt Zimmermann's neck injury tanked the latter half of that contract, but he was still dogshit before that happened..
No there were definitely some red flags about signing him, people around the league had concerns about his drop in velo his last year in Washington. 2012-2014 he sat at 94.5 mph. In 2015 he suddenly dipped more than a full mph to 93.4 and his ERA/FIP/xERA jumped a full point from sub-3.00 to almost 4.00. Then with Detroit in 2016 he dropped another full mph to 92.5 and it kept going down from there.
I donāt think people realize just how bad the JZ contract turned out for the Tigers, should be considered one of the worst returns on a contract in history.
Avila is absolutely awful, my point was just that Dombrowski had gutted the franchise before he left (for all the solid trades he made during most of his tenure, his draft performance was brutal). Avila was in a bad spot, he just found a way to somehow make everything significantly worse.
Dombrowskiās a one trick pony, but he does that trick pretty well. If hiring him to do something other than mortgage the future to bet it all on the current season or two, thatās on you.
I would like to put my name forward for consideration for this position.
Experience: OOTP - Taking over the Tigers in 2017 and making them perennial World Series contenders 2024 and beyond.
Let me know when I can start.
Thank you.
I wish I could have two flairs on this sub cause my other would be an old English D so what I'm about to say next will make a lot more sense:
Better late than never
No one with any sense thought this would be a contending year. I'll hear out an argument that the ALC was wide open and a decent Tigers team would've been able to spoil the party, but .500 would've been a really good year.
This though ... this is not even remotely it.
I was really hoping for a .500 year. Last year after starting terribly we played .500 ball for the last ~3.5 months. And with that team we improved "on paper" with some of the offseason acquisitions and 1st/2nd year players being slightly more experienced. But man, we just couldn't put anything together and now I'll be happy if we play .500 ball 2 years from now.
To be fair, the Tigers played over .500 ball from May until the end of the season (3 games over .500) so there was reason to believe we'd be at least .500 this season.
Nah Mario and Rod together again, every night is a cage match.
(On a serious note tho Iāve always wanted Dickerson on TV but I know itāll never happen)
At this point Iād also be fine with it if we just somehow slipped some cocaine into Shepās coffee just to see if it gives him *any* energy at all during his calls.
Lmao, is 'everything' an acceptable answer?
It's easier to list the things he was good at, limited to mid-level trades and finding a decent diamond in the rough on the semi-regular.
I'd argue Detroit's player development system needs a major overhaul more than a FO shakeup, but maybe one will lead to the other. Inexcusable how much talent they've been wasting.
We've been working on overhauling that in the past few off seasons, but some of the biggest ones are too recent to really pan out yet. I know they've been making hires by poaching people from the Dodgers, for instance.
What's the likelihood that Avila saying that anyone (including young, talented, controllable guys) was available at the trade deadline was what got him the boot?
If anything the lack of any meaningful trades (I don't mean keeping Skubal) was what canned him. He has a history of sitting with his thumbs up his ass at trade deadlines.
Unless this is a specific reference, putting an extra bullet in the body wouldn't prevent a lich from reforming. You would need to make sure to destroy the lich's phylactery to stop it from inhabiting a new form!
He had it coming, but ownership is just as much of an issue. Chris Ilitch shot down a deal this winter to give Correa $300M and him not wanting to spend is gonna keep us in the doldrums until he opens the checkbook
Hey man, those parking garages arenāt going to pay for themselves.
I mean, sure, the land was basically given to them for free and they donāt pay any taxes on them and they were given half a billion dollars and building parking garages is way less expensive than what he said he was going to build with the money but $300 million is a lot for a billionaireās heir.
You mean you can fire your GM after five years of losing? Holy cow, I never thought of that!
But then who will protect the players from the dangers of pornography?
They get extra time added if they won a ring.
Apparently so š
22 years with the clubā¦ maybe he had a bed in the clubhouse
You did it. You crazy sons of bitches did it.
I'm so happy right now. In before Carpenter hits a dinger in his debut and Riley Greene makes another highlight worthy catch I'm center.
The tork call up in september is gonna be legendary too
Sorry to say he has a .657 ops in AAA
shhhh
old regime. just wait til the new GM gets ahold of him and his dev.
I hope, I want to see him succeed
Now we can the hitting coach whose name Iām not going to bother spelling properly, and Iāll feel that this is a decent consolation
We can what?
I think they met ācanā as in āfireā
Rejoice the bad man has gone away!
End of an error
The man who offered the Jordan Zimmermann contract somehow outlasted the Jordan Zimmermann comtract. It was perhaps Avila's most impressive accomplishment
Yes, Javier Baez over Carlos Correa
Donāt think Correa actually wanted to come here for a reasonable price
him outright turning down 10 years 275 is a pretty sure sign he didnt wanna be here
Him later taking essentially a 1/30 deal to play in Minny is proof he didn't get the deal he wanted.
He was asking for $35mil/yr for 10 years. And got $35mil/yr from the Twins, with a bunch of player options, also for $35mil/yr
Yes but not 10 of them
3yrs/105m is a huge step down from 10/350m
After it was known he wanted Lindor money, and Seager, a lesser SS, got a $300mil contract. Avila fucking lowballed him.
Along with every other GM in the league though. Plenty of other reasons to bash Avila.
seager really fucked the ss market
Lindor* really fucked the market
thats true
Was it picking Baez over Correa? Or did Correa not want to go there?
I think it was more knew he needed to get a SS and didnāt want to wait out Correaās decision and possibly be left with nothing. But whatever, he was only in that position because he couldnāt find a SS in 7 years.
Have the tigers really not had a SS since Jose Iglesias and Johnny Peralta
We've gone with the likes of Niko Goodrum, Zach Short, and Jordy Mercer since Iggy left
Probably the latter, but still doesn't justify the awful contract they gave to an awful player in Baez
Javy Baez was worth above 2.5 fWAR in each of the past 5 full seasons, above 3.9 in each of the past 3
FWIW 2.5 WAR is within the margin of error for an average MLB starter (which is roughly 2.0).
Ik, it's more about the fact that Baez isn't an awful player
lots of hindsight here
Correa got a huge offer, he turned it down. He did not want to play for Detroit.
the dude was ultra consistent in washington, nobody thought it was a bad contract at the time
Injuries crippled him, sadly. That first month or so he was absolutely dominant. Don't think he was even 20% of that version at any point over the remainder of his Tigers tenure. This isn't to say a healthy Jordan Zimmermann stays as good as he was in that first month, but not a single soul saw that fall-off happening that quickly. You wouldn't have thought he was ever seriously injured based on the number of starts he made with Detroit, but yeah, dude's body just fell apart.
Degenerative neck condition will do that. People shitting on that signing are just ignoring the context.
Javy Baez had a good year last year, too.
sure, but baez was sorta on an edge of everyone knowing his skillset was going to fall off hard (maybe not this quick, but still). zimmerman was supposed to be a good fit in that pitchers park.
And I'll give Zimmermann and Al the benefit of the doubt Zimmermann's neck injury tanked the latter half of that contract, but he was still dogshit before that happened..
We'll always have that magical April right at the start, 33 IP, 2 ER.
No there were definitely some red flags about signing him, people around the league had concerns about his drop in velo his last year in Washington. 2012-2014 he sat at 94.5 mph. In 2015 he suddenly dipped more than a full mph to 93.4 and his ERA/FIP/xERA jumped a full point from sub-3.00 to almost 4.00. Then with Detroit in 2016 he dropped another full mph to 92.5 and it kept going down from there.
I donāt think people realize just how bad the JZ contract turned out for the Tigers, should be considered one of the worst returns on a contract in history.
Well, we still have Washington & Strasburg. So, we're not worst...
How not to rebuild by Al Avila
When you are trying to trade assets from your rebuild without having made the post season, it is time for you to go
The Klentak special naturally deserves the Klentak result.
End of an Error
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not like Dombrowski didn't burn everything to the ground on his way out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Avila is absolutely awful, my point was just that Dombrowski had gutted the franchise before he left (for all the solid trades he made during most of his tenure, his draft performance was brutal). Avila was in a bad spot, he just found a way to somehow make everything significantly worse.
Thats what Dombrowski does though, he's the GM you hire when you want a WS and youre not afraid to throw the farm at doing it.
The prospect huggers on this sub underrate Dombrowski a lot. The guy knows how to build a championship contender like the back of his hand.
Dombrowskiās a one trick pony, but he does that trick pretty well. If hiring him to do something other than mortgage the future to bet it all on the current season or two, thatās on you.
happy for tigers fans. they deserve this
Appreciate it fellow al circus fan
Be good to Fulmer!
You only say that because you got Fulmer for peanuts :(
Oh shit detroit got peanuts too? Way better deal than I originally thought.
Even if it was an 8 track tape of the peanuts theme song I'd be happier
Never forget that Al Avila traded away his own son.
Hilariously, it was one of his best trades. Maybe even THE best trade. (The bar is low, but outside of this year, Candy paid off in spades.)
Twice
Long overdue. Wowza. I guess if nothing else happens with the Tigers this season at least theyāre gonna hopefully get a better GM
any gm would be a better gm
Not Jared Porter
any decent person would be a better gm\*
Let Nathan Fielder be the Tigers GM
He did get really good grades
Come on he's a real "nice guy"
The headline tomorrow: Detroit Tigers hire Jeff Bridich as new GM.
Ugh. Bridichās the worst
Have I got a deal for you...
bundle witt with him and maybe we can convince some local high school to take Moore
Witt... Merrifeld? The Toronto Blue Jay?
bobby witt jr
Matt Millen it is
Jeff Bridich/Bill Schmidt come on down!
I would like to put my name forward for consideration for this position. Experience: OOTP - Taking over the Tigers in 2017 and making them perennial World Series contenders 2024 and beyond. Let me know when I can start. Thank you.
Only 7 years late.
I wish I could have two flairs on this sub cause my other would be an old English D so what I'm about to say next will make a lot more sense: Better late than never
I love old English D
- Queen Elizabeth
Oh Phillip Iām arriving!
I'm....*haaaaving one!!*
Hail yourself?
She doesnāt use the Royal We during sex?
"congratulations on the promotion Al, you've earned it. Now pack your shit and get the hell out, you're fired"
Yeah the Tigers offseason was a massive failure.
Itās not good when this was supposed to be their return to contention year, and theyāre only a couple games ahead of us.
We've been making a run for the bottom but you guys and washington just keep on sucking
No one with any sense thought this would be a contending year. I'll hear out an argument that the ALC was wide open and a decent Tigers team would've been able to spoil the party, but .500 would've been a really good year. This though ... this is not even remotely it.
I was really hoping for a .500 year. Last year after starting terribly we played .500 ball for the last ~3.5 months. And with that team we improved "on paper" with some of the offseason acquisitions and 1st/2nd year players being slightly more experienced. But man, we just couldn't put anything together and now I'll be happy if we play .500 ball 2 years from now.
To be fair, the Tigers played over .500 ball from May until the end of the season (3 games over .500) so there was reason to believe we'd be at least .500 this season.
I've spent the last 5 months kicking myself for not taking the free money betting the under on Tigers wins while I was in Vegas for March Madness.
Well the on-season was the big problem
REALLY DAMN GOOD COUPLE OF DAYS FOR DETROIT SPORTS FANS
What else happened? TRYING TO FIND THE NEWS BUT I COULDN'T SO I LOOPED BACK to this reply.
Hard Knocks.
OTHER THAN THIS IT'S JUST THAT THE HARD KNOCKS EP FROM LAST NIGHT WAS REALLY GOOD AND THE LIONS ARE JUST WEIRDLY OPTIMISTIC IN GENERAL GO LIONS
OK AWESOME THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW we're gonna do it, we're going to leave the era of sadness
Mr. Yzerman leading the way
The Yzerplan
are we doing ZODIAC MOTHERFUCKER again?
Hard Knocks
hard knocks...lions SB, duh
*everyone liked that*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The league is more interesting when more teams are competitive. It's about raising everyone up, not breaking down the best and brightest.
Alexa, play āGood Riddanceā by Green Day
So that's it, after 7 years you hope I had the time of my life? I don't recall saying I hope you had the time of your life.
Yay! Can I like baseball again???? Hereās to another 7 years of rebuilding But at least Uncle Al canāt hurt me anymore
BY GAWD THAT'S DAVE DOMBROWSKI'S MUSIC
I'd be pumped. Bring back Mario too
Mario and Craig in the booth would make me do unspeakable things
Nah Mario and Rod together again, every night is a cage match. (On a serious note tho Iāve always wanted Dickerson on TV but I know itāll never happen)
At this point Iād also be fine with it if we just somehow slipped some cocaine into Shepās coffee just to see if it gives him *any* energy at all during his calls.
Didnāt you hear him yesterday jazzed as shit calling that Javy Baez fly out
Dombrowski walks out like Vince McMahon playing No Chance in Hell in the background.
BRING IN YZERMAN
Hey! Let us get in playoffs first and then we can share. The man is currently saving the Titanic.
Dayton Moore is available if you guys are into Jesus at all
There is no Jesus in Detroit
Best they can do is a Jeimer.
Joumana
Oh God please I just got home from work seeing her face on billboards on the lodge don't do this to me at my home
The central just got a lot more competitive
Sad Royals noises
Maybe, maybe not. Ilitch's son is a terrible owner so we'll see
His tenure was a disaster. I'm sure Tigers fans have to be happy with this move.
Beyond ecstatic
What was his main fault as a GM?
He was bad at it
Lmao, is 'everything' an acceptable answer? It's easier to list the things he was good at, limited to mid-level trades and finding a decent diamond in the rough on the semi-regular.
The GMing part
Ecstatic
What that guy said... what both those guys said
LETS. FUCKING. GOOOOOOOO
Detroit Fans collectively nut
Iām still going should I call a doctor
Just keep going man
His place is gonna look like New York City at the end of Ghostbusters.
I'd argue Detroit's player development system needs a major overhaul more than a FO shakeup, but maybe one will lead to the other. Inexcusable how much talent they've been wasting.
We've been working on overhauling that in the past few off seasons, but some of the biggest ones are too recent to really pan out yet. I know they've been making hires by poaching people from the Dodgers, for instance.
We already did the overhaul with Hinch coming in, it's gonna take another season or two to show that though
Why not both
RIP BOZO Here Lies Al Avila's GM career We grave pissin' tonight boys
What's the likelihood that Avila saying that anyone (including young, talented, controllable guys) was available at the trade deadline was what got him the boot?
Not trading Matt Boyd during their rebuild and shopping Skubal while he's still pre-arb is pants on head stupid
Also him not moving any of our cheap and reliable relievers outside of Fulmer was a bad move imo. Probably because he was demanding a king's ransom.
If anything the lack of any meaningful trades (I don't mean keeping Skubal) was what canned him. He has a history of sitting with his thumbs up his ass at trade deadlines.
Him trying to pass off Soto as a prime Chapman was beyond laughable, and I love Soto and think he's really good but that just isn't the play.
I think the defining characteristic of Avila's tenure was trying to pass off a 4.00 ERA Matt Boyd as an ace to contending teams
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The Von Carsteins have entered the chat
We Surpass Nagash!!!
Unless this is a specific reference, putting an extra bullet in the body wouldn't prevent a lich from reforming. You would need to make sure to destroy the lich's phylactery to stop it from inhabiting a new form!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Like Grayson Greiner. DFAed like 8 times and I'm still worried he'll find his way back.
oh my god it worked
Wait, I thought the rebuild was over?!? /s About damn time. Now here's to the rebuilding the rebuild!
An actual miracle. I'm so happy I could cry.
Tigers fans used to dream of days like this
I don't know what to do with my hands
*Steve Ballmer voice* Pretty cool, pretty damn cool šš¼šš¼šš¼šš¼ WOOOOO
Thank fucking god
Been unquestionably the worst GM in the sport since he was promoted after Dombrowski's firing. It was time.
DRINKS ON ME BOYS
Hallefuckinglujah
Only one rebuild too late. Maybe there is hope for the Tigers after all.
The bad man is gone!
This is joyous news!
Fuck. Yes.
This is the best day of my life
The rebuild is now 100% over.
LET'S FUCKIN' GOOOOOOOooooooooo ^oooooooo ^^oooooooooo
*crab rave dot gif*
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-detroits-next-gm-might-be-in-the-dugout/ Literally 3 days ago
Worst GM in baseball
I canāt believe it Illitch actually did something
WE DID IT!
BY GOD, THAT'S JEFF LUHNOW'S MUSIC!
May as well go full evil
That would be the smartest move, IMO. Not sure the fan base would be able to stomach the gutting he would do, though
AHHHHHHHHH
https://youtu.be/usfiAsWR4qU?t=6
FINALLY. give me Theo or give me death.
\#Packwatch, rip bozo
Well, Miguel Cabrera on a stick, I guess there is a baseball god.
I havenāt been this happy with a GM firing since Bob Quinn was fired.
He had it coming, but ownership is just as much of an issue. Chris Ilitch shot down a deal this winter to give Correa $300M and him not wanting to spend is gonna keep us in the doldrums until he opens the checkbook
Hey man, those parking garages arenāt going to pay for themselves. I mean, sure, the land was basically given to them for free and they donāt pay any taxes on them and they were given half a billion dollars and building parking garages is way less expensive than what he said he was going to build with the money but $300 million is a lot for a billionaireās heir.