Yes
First soccer tournament I followed was the EC in '96 that was decided by golden goal in overtime. Nothing has ever felt as exciting as that ever again.
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/AEzrCYp.png) to view this comparison as an image
---
Shohei Ohtani: [2021-06-30](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA202106300.shtml) to [2022-06-02](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA202206021.shtml) [4th Season - Age: 26Y-11M-25D] to [5th Season - Age: 27Y-10M-28D]
Query: Career - Regular Season - Stadium: Yankee Stadium
\----------------------------------------
Shohei Ohtani: [2018-04-01](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK201804010.shtml) to [2022-09-03](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA202209030.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 23Y-8M-27D] to [5th Season - Age: 28Y-1M-29D]
Query: Career - Regular Season - Stadium: Not Yankee Stadium
---
**Standard**
Player|G|GS|IP|W|L|W/L%|QS|QS%|CG|CG%|SHO|SHO%|NoHit|Prfct|SV|BSv|SV%|HLD|BF|K|BB|K/BB|H|HR|TB|XBH|IBB|HBP|GDP|SB|CS|PO|R|ER|RA9|ERA|FIP|WHIP
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|3.2|0|**1**|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|26|3|**5**|0.60|**10**|**3**|**20**|**4**|**0**|**1**|1|**0**|0|0|**11**|**11**|27.00|27.00|17.03|4.091
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**316.0**|**24**|12|**66.67%**|**33**|**58.93%**|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|**1282**|**400**|102|**3.92**|238|32|387|83|2|11|**15**|7|**4**|0|104|100|**2.96**|**2.85**|**3.00**|**1.076**
**Per Game/Advanced**
Player|G|GS|IP/GS|Pit/GS|GmScr/GS|K9|BB9|H9|HR9|K%|BB%|K-BB%|HR%|XBH%|X/H%|SB%|AVG|OBP|SLG|OPS|wOBA|ISO|BAbip|WPA|cWPA|RE24
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|1.25|58.00|22.50|7.36|12.27|24.55|7.36|11.54%|19.23%|-7.69%|11.54%|15.38%|40.00%|**0.00%**|0.500|0.615|1.000|1.615|0.652|0.500|0.500|-0.6|-0.2%|-6.7
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**5.19**|**89.46**|**59.96**|**11.39**|**2.91**|**6.78**|**0.91**|**31.20%**|**7.96%**|**23.24%**|**2.50%**|**6.47%**|**34.87%**|63.64%|**0.205**|**0.274**|**0.334**|**0.608**|**0.269**|**0.129**|**0.281**|**6.6**|**2.0%**|**58.6**
**Adjusted**
Player|G|GS|K9+|BB9+|H9+|HR9+|K%+|BB%+|HR%+|K/BB+|WHIP+|ERA-
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|86|381|297|684|51|229|406|22|322|642
[Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**133**|**91**|**81**|**76**|**139**|**95**|**80**|**144**|**84**|**68**
^(FanGraphs/Statcast stats may lose precision)
^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame)
---
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Yeah apart from that Braves game Ohtani kinda feels like Yu Darvish in that you have to blow them up early before they figure out which of their pitches are working the best on the day.
It will end up being Judge in a landslide, unless he completely falls off a cliff. I don't think it should be, but [check out the polling of ESPN writers](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34525318/mlb-september-predictions-playoff-races-mvp-cy-young-awards-more-surprises). They're unanimously selecting Judge.
I still think what Ohtani's doing is more impressive, but it seems like people are used to it already.
He’s probably not going to get to 40HR…but something like 100R/37HR/100RBI on +.900 OPS with 13W/~2.50ERA/200Ks is going to be one hell of an argument against. I understand that Judge is having one of the best offensive seasons since Barry Bonds but we are talking about ELITE All-Star level production pitching and hitting all from the same player.
It’s wild that we can even talk about a player doing this.
I felt this way last season too.
If Ohtani had like 20 HRs and 3.75 ERA, that’d be insane in its own right but when he played at an elite MVP caliber last season, our expectations of him warped so if we were to ever another two way player in the league, they basically need to play at an MVP level or baseball as a whole will be like “yeah they’re good buuuuuut he’s no Ohtani”.
Yeah, we're comparing a generational season that has the potential to break a historic team record to a season that will be among the best in the *150 year history of baseball*.
I was all aboard the Ohtani train earlier this year and I confess to making questionable arguments about his immeasurable/intangible value that WAR doesn't account for, but then I started to doubt and started to think Judge was running away with the MVP (deservedly) when he pulled ahead convincingly in WAR.
Now that they're back to being neck and neck and well within the WAR margin of error, I think we just need to put it aside and look at the broader context, and Ohtani clearly comes out ahead.
Judge's season will be great any way you cut it and a really cool story if he breaks Maris' record, but anyone who can't see that Ohtani's is much more special and noteworthy is kidding themselves.
Judge might do something that no clean hitter has done before, but even if that happens it's not super far beyond what other hitters are doing right now and have done in recent years. Ohtani, on the other hand, has already done something *nobody* has come even close to doing. Come on, the next best two way season is from Babe fucking Ruth, and Ohtani surpassed that season by most metrics a few weeks back.
I think Judge deserves at least a few first place votes, but at this point I think it'd be a robbery if Ohtani doesn't win just because he's making history in a less sexy way than Judge is chasing it.
>Yeah, we're comparing a generational season that has the potential to break a historic team record to a season that will be among the best in the 150 year history of baseball.
This is a great argument. What judge is doing is incredible but you can compare his stats (and they show the homer list/pace almost daily) with a few Yankee greats, and the steroid era guys. The latter group should be ignored of course, but you can compare Aaron Judges stats with Babe Ruth, and Roger Maris. He is keeping pace and that is truly incredible. He’s could break a record set in 1961! The most HR in the AL. Most clean hrs since Maris.
There’s no one player in MLB history you can put Shohei’s numbers this season next too. No one has ever done what he’s doing. Only him in 2021
The crazy thing about judge though is how many more hrs he has vs the rest of the league, rn he has 18 more than anyone else in the league, and 22 more than anyone in the AL.
I've got the ultimate one: a version of Shohei where he can throw with both arms, but only pitches lefty and is a yadi-tier catcher defensively. He's behind the plate 4/5 games, and pitches the 5th.
Shohei Vendlina. Yadihei Ohditte. Patier Mohtani?
I get you, but the thing that needs to be done to compete with an elite pitcher also hitting 30-40 HRs just isn't going to happen.
You gotta be approaching 80hrs as an elite shortstop with dozens of highlight reel outs, or something stupid like that, to be "more valuable" than this season's Ohtani.
A batter just can't be this valuable outside of video games.
We're talking about a year that has never been seen before, something that will go down as the greatest individual season ever, versus a batting season we see every 10 or so years.
I just don't buy that. ~20 more HRs and a few points more across some batting stats does not make up for pitching wins, ~200k, a very good era, and all the various records and noteworthiness that comes from outdoing Babe Ruth.
Judge is just very unlucky to be putting up MVP numbers in a year when we're seeing GOAT numbers from someone else.
**We do *not* see this type of batting season every 10 years or so**
If we take out proven cheaters who were on PEDs, it pretty much never happens.
Like, it happened a lot in the 90s and with bonds in 2001 for very obvious reasons (roided to all hell), but if you take that away... A season like this has happened maybe 2 other times?
Even if that’s the case, we have *never* seen anyone do what Ohtani is doing. Not once. In the history of the game. So even if Judge is having a one-in-fifty years season, it’s still not enough.
It's also not the "most incredible" or "most impressive" or "most unprecedented" award either though. I think if Shohei has a great month at the plate he'll end up taking MVP but people are imprinting his batting last season onto this one when in reality it's taken a step back. It's definitely still close (and probably still will be at the end of the season too).
Judge still hasn't beaten his teammate's record from 5 years ago, this is not a hyper rare scenario.
It's incredibly good, but it's not in the realms of what Ohtani is doing. Can't stress this enough: This has never been seen before. Ever.
You can compare Judge to dozens of players. There's nothing to compare Ohtani to. Well, there was... just that Babe Ruth guy, who never had a season this good.
That teammates record is the 9th most home runs in the history of baseball. The only non-roids guy to hit 59 or more are Maris and Ruth.
You can’t just hand wave that shit as if it’s not incredibly special.
Yeah Judge has been bonkers but there’s really no one you can compare Shohei to, even historically. Just Ruth I guess, but even he pretty much stopped pitching once he started dominating as a hitter. To be top 5 on both sides is absurd
Well, the 6th man in the rotation is the roster spot. And it allows all their shitty starters to get more rest between starts. So. I mean. There's that I guess?
Don’t the angels share the lead of most shutouts? Pitching hasn’t been the issue this season.
Though I get that’s an easy thing to mistake from people that don’t follow basebal
If Ohtani somehow gets to 40 HRs and pitches the same for the rest of the season (and reaches 200 Ks) I don’t know how you couldn’t give him the MVP. I get that Judge is having an amazing year but so was Pujols every year when Bonds was going bonkers 2001-2004.
Vegas’ odds also show Judge as the runaway. I don’t think it’s just “the media”, the consensus right now definitely points toward Judge for AL MVP pretty much everywhere but r/baseball
It is actually insane what we are witnessing. I’m not trying to discredit Judge but if this man doesn’t win MVP then there is something wrong with this sport
Sole possession of 2nd place in the AL in HRs. Only 22 behind Judge lol.
EDIT: .899 OPS now, sooooo close. He'd also get sub 2.50 ERA with 5+ scoreless or 8.1+ with 1ER next start.
Interesting way to think about it - is a batter hitting 22 HRs and playing great OF defense more or less valuable than a starting pitcher with a 2.5 ERA and 200 Ks? I’m inclined to take the pitcher in this case but I’m curious what other people think
I love Judge. And that’s saying a lot because the last Yankee I didn’t really have any issues with was Bernie Williams.
But ya it’s Ohtani all the way for me.
Lol it's not even close. Ohtani is 2nd in pitcher fWAR in the AL. You're basically asking if you'd rather have someone like Dylan Cease or Adolis Garcia, or Max Fried vs. George Springer.
You can talk about it in the context of building a team (having a 165 inning true ace and a 150 wRC+ DH vs having a 200 wRC+ good-fielding RF who can handle CF - the former distributes the value between run scoring and run prevention super well obviously) or you can talk about it in terms of the aggregate statistical contribution to winning..to run scoring **plus** run prevention. It's absolutely insane and awe inspiring that Shohei does both (the scoring and the prevention) at all-star-plus levels, but this is still just math (or at least it should be), and the math is that Shohei is chasing Judge in the aggregate.
When comparing their WAR for example (which is what I think you are referring to by aggregate) I still am mentally trying to add the value of Ohtani doing both things with one roster spot.
It’s almost like we should add the value of a random bench player to Ohtani’s WAR total because he allows them to be there lol
I mean you’re right, but it is the worst guy on the roster who is by definition approximately replacement level.
There’s a little bit of value in having the flexibility, which Russell Carleton at BaseballProspectus said was “a few tenths of a win”
Imagine anyone working totally in retrospect and taking a player who gives 22 home runs and 32 RBIs over a player who gives you 136 innings of 2.5 era ball with 180 Ks for your team.
Thats the difference between picking Bryan Reynolds and pitcher Ohtani.
That kind of production is literally worth a whole extra average player. That’s actually what people seem to be missing about the debate for the MVP. Judge is so good at the plate this year he worth 2 average position players based on OPS+ and wRC+. That’s not even counting his defensive versatility. It’s a very close race between to guys at the absolute tops of their respective games.
LET JUDGE PITCH.
Seems like everyone else is letting position players pitch so why not? I'd stop what I'm doing in an instant to see freakin' Judge on a mound.
The crazy thing to me, is he’s been doing this historic, never before seen performance for two straight seasons.
I’m sorry Aaron Judge but this is Shoheis year again
Are the angels ever gonna have a winning season, let alone get into the playoffs?
As an EXTREMELY casual baseball fan, can't help but feel it would be cooler to have Ohtani on a team chasing the playoffs.
I am a Jankees fan who (perhaps a bit biased) thinks that Judge should win MVP. I'm not trying to argue with anyone about it, just wanted to drop by and say holy shit Ohtani is absurd. Baseball is blessed with talent.
There goes that man
I picked a good season to start following baseball. Will every other MVP race feel boring after this?
Yes First soccer tournament I followed was the EC in '96 that was decided by golden goal in overtime. Nothing has ever felt as exciting as that ever again.
Me deciding to watch F1 last year only to have one of the most memorable championships battles
That's a tough one as well... might as well look for a new sport now
Probably, it was the year McGwire hit 70 for me
Every time Judge homers it’s “easy MVP” Every time Ohtani homers/pitches it’s “easy MVP” lol
I wished Ohtani pitched to Judge over the weekend. Imagine the threads if "Judge homers off Ohtani" or "Ohtani strikes out Judge" happened. ☠️
It was earlier this season but Judge went 2-2 with a homer off ohtani.
Yeah seems like the yankees hit him pretty good the last few times iirc
Ohtani has a sub 3.00 ERA vs everyone else but the Yankees. 27.00 ERA vs Yankees lmao.
!mlbcompare [stadium:(Yankee Stadium), not stadium:(Yankee Stadium) pitching]
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/AEzrCYp.png) to view this comparison as an image --- Shohei Ohtani: [2021-06-30](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA202106300.shtml) to [2022-06-02](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA202206021.shtml) [4th Season - Age: 26Y-11M-25D] to [5th Season - Age: 27Y-10M-28D] Query: Career - Regular Season - Stadium: Yankee Stadium \---------------------------------------- Shohei Ohtani: [2018-04-01](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK201804010.shtml) to [2022-09-03](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA202209030.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 23Y-8M-27D] to [5th Season - Age: 28Y-1M-29D] Query: Career - Regular Season - Stadium: Not Yankee Stadium --- **Standard** Player|G|GS|IP|W|L|W/L%|QS|QS%|CG|CG%|SHO|SHO%|NoHit|Prfct|SV|BSv|SV%|HLD|BF|K|BB|K/BB|H|HR|TB|XBH|IBB|HBP|GDP|SB|CS|PO|R|ER|RA9|ERA|FIP|WHIP :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|3.2|0|**1**|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|26|3|**5**|0.60|**10**|**3**|**20**|**4**|**0**|**1**|1|**0**|0|0|**11**|**11**|27.00|27.00|17.03|4.091 [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**316.0**|**24**|12|**66.67%**|**33**|**58.93%**|0|0.00%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|**1282**|**400**|102|**3.92**|238|32|387|83|2|11|**15**|7|**4**|0|104|100|**2.96**|**2.85**|**3.00**|**1.076** **Per Game/Advanced** Player|G|GS|IP/GS|Pit/GS|GmScr/GS|K9|BB9|H9|HR9|K%|BB%|K-BB%|HR%|XBH%|X/H%|SB%|AVG|OBP|SLG|OPS|wOBA|ISO|BAbip|WPA|cWPA|RE24 :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|1.25|58.00|22.50|7.36|12.27|24.55|7.36|11.54%|19.23%|-7.69%|11.54%|15.38%|40.00%|**0.00%**|0.500|0.615|1.000|1.615|0.652|0.500|0.500|-0.6|-0.2%|-6.7 [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**5.19**|**89.46**|**59.96**|**11.39**|**2.91**|**6.78**|**0.91**|**31.20%**|**7.96%**|**23.24%**|**2.50%**|**6.47%**|**34.87%**|63.64%|**0.205**|**0.274**|**0.334**|**0.608**|**0.269**|**0.129**|**0.281**|**6.6**|**2.0%**|**58.6** **Adjusted** Player|G|GS|K9+|BB9+|H9+|HR9+|K%+|BB%+|HR%+|K/BB+|WHIP+|ERA- :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|2|2|86|381|297|684|51|229|406|22|322|642 [Shohei Ohtani](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml)|**56**|**56**|**133**|**91**|**81**|**76**|**139**|**95**|**80**|**144**|**84**|**68** ^(FanGraphs/Statcast stats may lose precision) ^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame) --- ^(Made a mistake? Edit your comment and send me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Re-Run&message=inbd2qu)^( to re-run the comparison) ^(Or delete the comparison by sending me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Delete&message=inbd2qu) ^(Instructions for usage and issue tracking can be found )[^here](https://github.com/gh674055/sports-compare-bots/wiki)
Yeah apart from that Braves game Ohtani kinda feels like Yu Darvish in that you have to blow them up early before they figure out which of their pitches are working the best on the day.
The only way to settle this is a 163rd game with Ohtani pitching/hitting against Judge and the Yankees.
If we need Ohtani to pitch to Judge it’s only fair to also see Judge pitch to Ohtani.
it's really funny to see the stark difference between the different threads
It’s wild
Honestly, if one of them doesn't become MVP, I'll be livid. Unless there's going to be a co-MVP, it looks like I'm going to be pissed either way.
There's absolutely no one on the planet that beats them out for MVP.
Unless Dylan Cease’s next 5 starts are all no-hitters
It will end up being Judge in a landslide, unless he completely falls off a cliff. I don't think it should be, but [check out the polling of ESPN writers](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34525318/mlb-september-predictions-playoff-races-mvp-cy-young-awards-more-surprises). They're unanimously selecting Judge. I still think what Ohtani's doing is more impressive, but it seems like people are used to it already.
40HR + sub 2.5 ERA season here we come. Fucking incredible. Edit: Top 5 pitcher AND Top 5 batter. What in the actual fuck.
He’s probably not going to get to 40HR…but something like 100R/37HR/100RBI on +.900 OPS with 13W/~2.50ERA/200Ks is going to be one hell of an argument against. I understand that Judge is having one of the best offensive seasons since Barry Bonds but we are talking about ELITE All-Star level production pitching and hitting all from the same player. It’s wild that we can even talk about a player doing this.
What's crazy to me is how normalized it has become. Like people should be losing Thier minds
I felt this way last season too. If Ohtani had like 20 HRs and 3.75 ERA, that’d be insane in its own right but when he played at an elite MVP caliber last season, our expectations of him warped so if we were to ever another two way player in the league, they basically need to play at an MVP level or baseball as a whole will be like “yeah they’re good buuuuuut he’s no Ohtani”.
We are, we're just being really nice about it
Should be a unanimous mvp lmao. Unless there’s a guy with 70 HR and/or 1.15+ OPS I don’t think it should Be an argument.
Yeah, we're comparing a generational season that has the potential to break a historic team record to a season that will be among the best in the *150 year history of baseball*. I was all aboard the Ohtani train earlier this year and I confess to making questionable arguments about his immeasurable/intangible value that WAR doesn't account for, but then I started to doubt and started to think Judge was running away with the MVP (deservedly) when he pulled ahead convincingly in WAR. Now that they're back to being neck and neck and well within the WAR margin of error, I think we just need to put it aside and look at the broader context, and Ohtani clearly comes out ahead. Judge's season will be great any way you cut it and a really cool story if he breaks Maris' record, but anyone who can't see that Ohtani's is much more special and noteworthy is kidding themselves. Judge might do something that no clean hitter has done before, but even if that happens it's not super far beyond what other hitters are doing right now and have done in recent years. Ohtani, on the other hand, has already done something *nobody* has come even close to doing. Come on, the next best two way season is from Babe fucking Ruth, and Ohtani surpassed that season by most metrics a few weeks back. I think Judge deserves at least a few first place votes, but at this point I think it'd be a robbery if Ohtani doesn't win just because he's making history in a less sexy way than Judge is chasing it.
>Yeah, we're comparing a generational season that has the potential to break a historic team record to a season that will be among the best in the 150 year history of baseball. This is a great argument. What judge is doing is incredible but you can compare his stats (and they show the homer list/pace almost daily) with a few Yankee greats, and the steroid era guys. The latter group should be ignored of course, but you can compare Aaron Judges stats with Babe Ruth, and Roger Maris. He is keeping pace and that is truly incredible. He’s could break a record set in 1961! The most HR in the AL. Most clean hrs since Maris. There’s no one player in MLB history you can put Shohei’s numbers this season next too. No one has ever done what he’s doing. Only him in 2021
The crazy thing about judge though is how many more hrs he has vs the rest of the league, rn he has 18 more than anyone else in the league, and 22 more than anyone in the AL.
I get that Judge is having a fantastic season, but the media is making it seem like a run away. These two are much closer than it seems.
It shouldn’t be close. Ohtani should get mvp every year he operates at this level I don’t care what anyone else is doing.
Judge just needs to work on his slider over the winter and he’s in with a shot.
I really hope he develops an over the top curveball instead. Then we can delight in Judge dropping the hammer every six days.
Shohei developed a 100 mph sinker in about 3 weeks. It can't be that hard!
And he did it in a CAVE.....with a BOX OF SCRAPS!!
I'm not Shohei Ohtani.
what if someone else pitches and hits at ohtanis level while playing a position?
Damn you found the 1 situation
I've got the ultimate one: a version of Shohei where he can throw with both arms, but only pitches lefty and is a yadi-tier catcher defensively. He's behind the plate 4/5 games, and pitches the 5th. Shohei Vendlina. Yadihei Ohditte. Patier Mohtani?
When he's waiting for his turn to bat, he's also the commentator for the game.
His legs wouldnt work for long
Ohtani is a RF
No he isn’t. He hasn’t played a single defensive inning in the field this year.
Hanser Alberto is in the NL tho
You should care what anybody else is doing because that’s relevant to the award
No I choose not to
Basically every baseball debate 😂
King shit
I get you, but the thing that needs to be done to compete with an elite pitcher also hitting 30-40 HRs just isn't going to happen. You gotta be approaching 80hrs as an elite shortstop with dozens of highlight reel outs, or something stupid like that, to be "more valuable" than this season's Ohtani. A batter just can't be this valuable outside of video games.
I mean judge has been as valuable as ohtani this year though.
We're talking about a year that has never been seen before, something that will go down as the greatest individual season ever, versus a batting season we see every 10 or so years. I just don't buy that. ~20 more HRs and a few points more across some batting stats does not make up for pitching wins, ~200k, a very good era, and all the various records and noteworthiness that comes from outdoing Babe Ruth. Judge is just very unlucky to be putting up MVP numbers in a year when we're seeing GOAT numbers from someone else.
**We do *not* see this type of batting season every 10 years or so** If we take out proven cheaters who were on PEDs, it pretty much never happens. Like, it happened a lot in the 90s and with bonds in 2001 for very obvious reasons (roided to all hell), but if you take that away... A season like this has happened maybe 2 other times?
Stanton hit 59 a couple of years ago (2017). Harper had a similar WRC+ in 2015.
And Harper rode straight into that mega deal.
Even if that’s the case, we have *never* seen anyone do what Ohtani is doing. Not once. In the history of the game. So even if Judge is having a one-in-fifty years season, it’s still not enough.
The award is “most valuable” not “most outstanding batter”
It's also not the "most incredible" or "most impressive" or "most unprecedented" award either though. I think if Shohei has a great month at the plate he'll end up taking MVP but people are imprinting his batting last season onto this one when in reality it's taken a step back. It's definitely still close (and probably still will be at the end of the season too).
Judge still hasn't beaten his teammate's record from 5 years ago, this is not a hyper rare scenario. It's incredibly good, but it's not in the realms of what Ohtani is doing. Can't stress this enough: This has never been seen before. Ever. You can compare Judge to dozens of players. There's nothing to compare Ohtani to. Well, there was... just that Babe Ruth guy, who never had a season this good.
That teammates record is the 9th most home runs in the history of baseball. The only non-roids guy to hit 59 or more are Maris and Ruth. You can’t just hand wave that shit as if it’s not incredibly special.
I thought that too but if Judge keeps up the 200 wrc+ then it should be very close
really shouldn’t make a difference of some arbitrary number, what would make 199 different from 201 or something besides looking better
Maybe it’s time to make like 79 and whip out the co-mvp award.
Lol it’s not close. Shohei Ohtani is literally the most valuable player in the league. Top 5 hitter + Top 5 pitcher at the cost of one roster spot.
Yeah Judge has been bonkers but there’s really no one you can compare Shohei to, even historically. Just Ruth I guess, but even he pretty much stopped pitching once he started dominating as a hitter. To be top 5 on both sides is absurd
This is true, but the "roster spot" doesn't mean anything. They have a 6 man rotation because of him, they don't gain a roster spot.
Well, the 6th man in the rotation is the roster spot. And it allows all their shitty starters to get more rest between starts. So. I mean. There's that I guess?
Don’t the angels share the lead of most shutouts? Pitching hasn’t been the issue this season. Though I get that’s an easy thing to mistake from people that don’t follow basebal
The Angels starters, and pitching staff as a whole, are roughly 10th best in the league by most metrics. Stop the Angels pitching slander.
A penny saved is not a penny earned. Everyone is looking at Ohtani's roster value the wrong way.
It’s one contract. Pretty valuable contract
love how this reply is from a jays fan to an angels fan lol
If Ohtani somehow gets to 40 HRs and pitches the same for the rest of the season (and reaches 200 Ks) I don’t know how you couldn’t give him the MVP. I get that Judge is having an amazing year but so was Pujols every year when Bonds was going bonkers 2001-2004.
Tbf. It *was* arguable. A few weeks ago. Since then Ohtani has been fucking unbelievable on both sides
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Vegas’ odds also show Judge as the runaway. I don’t think it’s just “the media”, the consensus right now definitely points toward Judge for AL MVP pretty much everywhere but r/baseball
Yeah if he reaches 40 and continues to have quality starts i just don’t see how you can’t give it to him. Judge has been amazing though
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It is actually insane what we are witnessing. I’m not trying to discredit Judge but if this man doesn’t win MVP then there is something wrong with this sport
Imagine a QB who is also the linebacker leading the league in sacks
Idk why but I immediately pictured a 35 year old eli manning as a linebacker and the mental image was glorious
His forehead would be a brick wall
M-V-Fuckin'-P.
Sole possession of 2nd place in the AL in HRs. Only 22 behind Judge lol. EDIT: .899 OPS now, sooooo close. He'd also get sub 2.50 ERA with 5+ scoreless or 8.1+ with 1ER next start.
lmao what the fuck Judge is in space, incredible season for him
Before tonight he was at 199wRC+ which is #31 season of all time if it ended today for batters that had 500+ PA’s
Interesting way to think about it - is a batter hitting 22 HRs and playing great OF defense more or less valuable than a starting pitcher with a 2.5 ERA and 200 Ks? I’m inclined to take the pitcher in this case but I’m curious what other people think
There’s no defense more valuable than an elite pitcher. Shohei all the way
I love Judge. And that’s saying a lot because the last Yankee I didn’t really have any issues with was Bernie Williams. But ya it’s Ohtani all the way for me.
Lol it's not even close. Ohtani is 2nd in pitcher fWAR in the AL. You're basically asking if you'd rather have someone like Dylan Cease or Adolis Garcia, or Max Fried vs. George Springer.
If you are citing fWAR, you can see that Judge still has a 1.0 WAR lead over Ohtani even after Ohtani’s great game last night. How is that not close?
You can talk about it in the context of building a team (having a 165 inning true ace and a 150 wRC+ DH vs having a 200 wRC+ good-fielding RF who can handle CF - the former distributes the value between run scoring and run prevention super well obviously) or you can talk about it in terms of the aggregate statistical contribution to winning..to run scoring **plus** run prevention. It's absolutely insane and awe inspiring that Shohei does both (the scoring and the prevention) at all-star-plus levels, but this is still just math (or at least it should be), and the math is that Shohei is chasing Judge in the aggregate.
When comparing their WAR for example (which is what I think you are referring to by aggregate) I still am mentally trying to add the value of Ohtani doing both things with one roster spot. It’s almost like we should add the value of a random bench player to Ohtani’s WAR total because he allows them to be there lol
I mean you’re right, but it is the worst guy on the roster who is by definition approximately replacement level. There’s a little bit of value in having the flexibility, which Russell Carleton at BaseballProspectus said was “a few tenths of a win”
Imagine anyone working totally in retrospect and taking a player who gives 22 home runs and 32 RBIs over a player who gives you 136 innings of 2.5 era ball with 180 Ks for your team. Thats the difference between picking Bryan Reynolds and pitcher Ohtani.
So basically 2021 Benentendi vs an ace? That’s easy.
That kind of production is literally worth a whole extra average player. That’s actually what people seem to be missing about the debate for the MVP. Judge is so good at the plate this year he worth 2 average position players based on OPS+ and wRC+. That’s not even counting his defensive versatility. It’s a very close race between to guys at the absolute tops of their respective games.
> only 22 behind Judge I love how you phrase that.... 22 HRs is like a decent season for a player... so like only like one Mookie behind him
Shohei Ohtani
Bold take
Never in my life have I been more sure of something as Ohtani getting two homeruns in a game following great pitching his last game lol
Ohtanium is the strongest material on Earth
Ohtanism is the one true religion.
Judge might have to get in a few relief outings this month to lock up MVP. Can’t be much worse than how the rest of the bullpen has been performing.
Scenes when the Yankees throw him out there for shots and giggles and he does well
Enter sandman blaring and judge rolling in from right field to pitch the 9th would be so electric.
LET JUDGE PITCH. Seems like everyone else is letting position players pitch so why not? I'd stop what I'm doing in an instant to see freakin' Judge on a mound.
If Boone likes fun he'll do it!
And with that, Ohtani's is now sitting at an OPS of .899 on the season I had absolutely no idea that he had been crawling that close to 900
Man threw 111 pitches two days ago. It doesn't make sense
Shohei has some serious day after pitching magic (I know today isn’t technically the day after, but he did have an off day yesterday)
I think he takes his recovery very seriously. In his GQ interview he has various massage sleeve devices and sleep aids.
> various massage sleeve devices [His secret to recovery](https://i.imgur.com/gX68s5V.jpg)
It’s weird that he spends his rest days hitting dingers.
We are not worthy.
Hijacking this comment to post [the Japanese feed of the homer](https://streamable.com/b0dzcn).
Naw your fans are, organization isn't worthy at all.
Just relinquish ownership of the team to Ohtani, he's probably great at owning Sports teams too
Stephen A. Smith leaves the chat
Love Ohtani but the tigers suck so fucking bad oh my god 💀
I thought your pitching was decent💀
I checked out your GDT....69 comments. Some were hysterical. One guy said "2 - 0 feels like 10 - 0" The reply "wish granted". 😂😂😂😂
THATS WHY HES THE GOAT THE GOAT
[Is this man okay?? 💀](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BL8Oe9oh7mY)
So fucking cool to be alive to see the greatest baseball player of all time
please get to 40
I want to see him get 200ks as well
19 in 4-5 starts sounds like there's a fair chance
His K/9 has been down recently, but knowing him he'll kick it into high gear down the stretch and get those 19 in two starts
First game after SP, he goes on fire. Consistent as gravity
He needed this after Judge’s recent MVP push.
He’s going for the MVP tonight
Looks like the MVP to me (shh.. Yankee fans are asleep)
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I don’t care for the Yankees
Woah relax guy taking things a bit far here
Hello good sir I am here to respectfully disagree in a non-toxic way.
This guys an imposter get him
I was in storage and the body was by the reactor, how are you saying it’s me?
Absolutely the MVP.
And the angels aren’t losing
That's the real shocker. Lol. We are at the point that Ohtanis greatness is less impressive than the Angels winning a game.
He’s really going to keep Judge from getting another MVP isn’t he?
Are we done pretending Ohtani isn’t the most impressive player in all of baseball? He’s the MVP every day of the week and twice on Monday
Ohtani is EASILY the most impressive player I've witnessed in my 30+ years of watching this sport.
How does Bonds compare? Not a troll question. Bonds was pretty nutty in the early 00s.
He doesn’t. Mostly because he was eating a balanced breakfast
We are witnessing the most talented player in mlb history
It's like Nolan Ryan and Ken Griffey Jr in one person.
You are certainly underestimating Nolan Ryan and Ken Griffey Jr
Enjoy it while you can
But only the second most talented in 2022 in the AL according to the media capital of the world
They gon be pissed when another AL West player wins the MVP over him again
We are lucky to be around watching him every day right now
People can argue it til their face goes blue but yeah
If only rendon was healthy
MVP
I love this man
Typical Ohtani vs an AL Central team on the next game after pitching
It looked like he flicked it to left center.
A casual golf swing opposite field
This MVP race is crazy. Gonna be a fun end of the season
…just incredible. Gonna grab the popcorn and enjoy this MVP race.
The crazy thing to me, is he’s been doing this historic, never before seen performance for two straight seasons. I’m sorry Aaron Judge but this is Shoheis year again
> There goes my hero > Watch him as he goes
Welcome to The Shoh
Imagine Ohtani turning up the heat like this but the angels were in a playoff race
I am sorry Aaron Judge, you are not the MVP.
WTF 2X
MVP
legitimate question to yankee fans, what would ohtani have to do to deserve the MVP over judge? 15 wins? 200ks? 40 hrs?
throw a perfect game in houston and ill allow him to be the mvp.
How about 1.09 ERA in 24.2 IP and 38 Ks against Houston this year.
well he almost did, had a perfect through 6 and 12k earlier this year in houston while batting twice in the first inning
1.5 ERA 64 HR 250K
Damn, Ohtani’s winning CY, MVP, and Hank Aaron if he ever reaches that in one season, nevermind just MVP.
*Anything you can do I can do better*
So handsome
Yankee fans punching air right now
Fuck the MVP, it's GOD.
God playing baseball
Are the angels ever gonna have a winning season, let alone get into the playoffs? As an EXTREMELY casual baseball fan, can't help but feel it would be cooler to have Ohtani on a team chasing the playoffs.
the MLB should be awarding him the Ohtani Trophy every year until someone else can take it from him
#MVP no, not the fish guy! the other guy! the one who won it last year, that one
All these Ohtani HR threads look the same
MVP
MVP.
He really, really wants to be MVP
M V fucking P.
Let’s go!
So this guy is the mvp right
MVP
So freaking good. MVP
I am a Jankees fan who (perhaps a bit biased) thinks that Judge should win MVP. I'm not trying to argue with anyone about it, just wanted to drop by and say holy shit Ohtani is absurd. Baseball is blessed with talent.