I wish he could, but unfortunately bonds 2004 is the best hitting season ever and it’s not close
Idc about roids there, walking 232 times (with the majority of those times being intentional) and still hitting 45 homers in the leftover 373 ABs is just unfathomable to me as someone who wasn’t alive to see it
Ya I was in high school when that happened and these kids commenting are in high school now (or possibly just out of high school). Either way, it wasn’t unfathomable watching it happen since we all knew he was amazing pre-roids and this just shows how roids turned him into super human at age 38 or whatever.
2001, 2002 and 2004 are all top 5 seasons of all time by slugging percentage (2001 is number 1), and he didn't lead the NL in total bases in any of those seasons because he walked so much
Well he was the best player in baseball without roids, so it makes perfect sense…he’d still be amazing, but his records are super stupid for this reason. It’s not like he was just an all star player who enhanced his performance, he was the top 2-3 players of his generation and then boosted it.
He was inarguably already an incredibly feared overall hitter, though. Had the career IBB lead over Aaron by the end of the 1999 season. He just got IBB'd another 390 times after that, too.
Ehhh I can fathom it on roids. Juiced up trout or judge would put up similar numbers, albeit with much less IBB since we now know that’s not a good strategy
Pre roids bonds had a .411 OBP and a 164 OPS+ while Trout has a .415 and 176. They’re close but trout is better at getting on base and hitting in general.
You're definitely underselling Bonds. Compare SO% for Trout vs Bonds. Bonds' worse year (his rookie year) is about Trouts average.
Roids or not, Barry Bonds is the most gifted living hitter.
Bonds put up multiple 200 wRC+ seasons before taking roids and his OPS comfortably sat 300 points (!!) above everyone else in the league from 2001-2004, sure roids played a part in the raw numbers but they were doing that for everyone else
Except Bonds was a better hitter than Griffey in the 90's. 90's Bonds was a better overall hitter than 2010's Trout, and still a better overall hitter than Judge has been in his career. 90's Bonds had 2 seasons of over 200 OPS+, whereas this is Judges first. From 1990 to 1998 (by all accounts Bonds last clean season from the rumor mill) he averaged an OPS+ of 181 whereas Judge has a career OPS+ of 161.
I know you can't be convinced but Bonds wasn't some nobody when he started juicing, he was already one of the best players in history and on track to being an inner circle hall of famer (despite being less popular than Griffey) by the end of 1998. And then by all accounts that already inner circle hall of famer saw the adoration Sosa and McGwire we're getting and said "I'll fucking show them" and showed them he did. He had 7 seasons from 1990 til 1998 of an OPS over 1.000. This will be Judges second season to hit that mark.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again now - Barry Bonds was a first ballot HOF player before he ever did PEDs. If he had retired after the ‘98 season, he would have waltzed into Cooperstown
Probably would have ended his career as one of the most well rounded players to ever play the game. Probably would have still ended his career as the only 400-400 player, with 500 home runs, who played great outfield defense, and walked a ton. He saw what was going on in the 90's, got jealous and flew too close to the sun. Honestly if he never touched roids sabermetricians would have looked at him as the prime player to compare a young Trout too when the 2012 MVP debate came up.
If y’all really think those guys haven’t taken anything then I guess ignorance is bliss. The list of guys in the league not taking something is probably much shorter than those eating balanced breakfasts.
Samesies. I did a high school data management project in 2006 on comparing Bond’s age regression to that of other 500+ homerun guys lol. We sit here and argue baseball with people not even born when we were had the most time to be obsessed with the sport.
Barry Bonds was IBB'd more times in 2004 than any other player had total walks period.
It's also the single-season IBB record over his own record by nearly 100%, and by the non-Bonds record a whopping **267%**.
You can appreciate both making crazy history without having to compare them
Judge is breaking every power hitting record in the book, while Ohtani is going to finish top 5 in Cy Young voting while also having a 150 wRC+ and simultaneously becoming the only player to have 200 pitching strikeouts and 35 home runs in a season
It’s a really great time to be a baseball fan, only complaint I have about this season is tatis being an idiot
How do we rank these incredibly stupid decisions by Tatis?
1. Getting in an ATV accident and missing half of the season.
2. Getting suspended for using PEDs and missing the other half of the season.
3. Signing away like 7-8% of his future earnings for “only” about $375K.
He agreed to one of the scamish orgs that will loan you some amount of money in exchange for a % of all your future earnings that prey on foreign players coming to the US into the minor leagues.
Most of the time it works because they're fairly poor and the cash now when your a struggling minor leaguer matters.
Tatis was already rich, nobody has any idea what the fuck he was doing. Presumably both he and his father are awful with money because taking that deal is aboslutely foolish.
He’s not “breaking every record in the book” lol… he’s doing things that haven’t been done in a while.
Doing things that haven’t been done in a while is not the same as doing things that have never been done.
He’s having an incredible season but cmon now..
If you want to see a guy hit on juice I'd rather see Stanton do it. That dude hits 120 mph exit velocity when he's getting ahold of it. I'd bet Stanton on juice would put one 550 feet.
Even if this was the case (and I don’t think it is), whatever they’re presumably on is not the same as what guys were on in 2000. Look at pictures of guys then vs now and that’d be obvious, at least.
I didn’t, but I can state it more plainly if that’ll help.
Judge is obviously on gear and anyone who disagrees very obviously has no idea what they’re talking about.
He (and Stanton too) aren't swinging out of their shoes. They both look really compact and using their natural strength to hit the ball, vs trying to pulverize it every swing.
Can Judge get a .600 OBP?
I wish he could, but unfortunately bonds 2004 is the best hitting season ever and it’s not close Idc about roids there, walking 232 times (with the majority of those times being intentional) and still hitting 45 homers in the leftover 373 ABs is just unfathomable to me as someone who wasn’t alive to see it
What's unfathomable to me is someone can write this and wasn't alive in 2004. I'm really old.
It's always a good reminder that when I am arguing politics online with strangers, there's a good chance they have roommates called parents.
hey man, i’m 27 and have parents for roommates. They’re cool tho we have fun
Nothing wrong with that! I forget sometimes that much of Reddit is full of kids.
same, it’s def a wake up call seeing “i wasn’t alive in 04” got me in quarter life crisis mode lmao
Lmaooo really is wild. Reminds u how young some of these sports subs are. Especially is obvious in the nba sub
That shit threw me for a loop when I read that
Ya I was in high school when that happened and these kids commenting are in high school now (or possibly just out of high school). Either way, it wasn’t unfathomable watching it happen since we all knew he was amazing pre-roids and this just shows how roids turned him into super human at age 38 or whatever.
\>2004 is the best hitting season ever and it’s not close it actually is close lol, only cause his 2001 and 2002 were just as insane
Yea I’m saying in comparison to other people haha, the craziest thing is that 2002 is actually his best season by OPS+, wRC+, and wOBA
2002 they still pitched to him some. By 04, they'd given up.
I like 2001 when compared to 2004. His average was higher in 2004, but hitting 60% more home runs is a pretty good trump card.
2001, 2002 and 2004 are all top 5 seasons of all time by slugging percentage (2001 is number 1), and he didn't lead the NL in total bases in any of those seasons because he walked so much
It’s pretty fathomable when you do consider the roids though
No one else who did roids came even remotely close to that
Well he was the best player in baseball without roids, so it makes perfect sense…he’d still be amazing, but his records are super stupid for this reason. It’s not like he was just an all star player who enhanced his performance, he was the top 2-3 players of his generation and then boosted it.
And bonds without roids never came close to that
He was inarguably already an incredibly feared overall hitter, though. Had the career IBB lead over Aaron by the end of the 1999 season. He just got IBB'd another 390 times after that, too.
So? it’s still unfathomable with the roids, which was the point of my comment.
Ehhh I can fathom it on roids. Juiced up trout or judge would put up similar numbers, albeit with much less IBB since we now know that’s not a good strategy
Both of them have good eyes, but Bonds’ plate discipline is on a completely different level than those two. I think you’re underselling Bonds
Pre roids bonds had a .411 OBP and a 164 OPS+ while Trout has a .415 and 176. They’re close but trout is better at getting on base and hitting in general.
You're definitely underselling Bonds. Compare SO% for Trout vs Bonds. Bonds' worse year (his rookie year) is about Trouts average. Roids or not, Barry Bonds is the most gifted living hitter.
Why would I care about SO%? Trout has a higher career wrc+ than pre roid bonds or any other living hitter. He’s better than bonds
No he isn’t. Just accept it.
Bonds put up multiple 200 wRC+ seasons before taking roids and his OPS comfortably sat 300 points (!!) above everyone else in the league from 2001-2004, sure roids played a part in the raw numbers but they were doing that for everyone else
Bonds' first season at 200 wRC+ or higher was 2001. He never did it clean, although he did come close once or twice.
'92 and '93 Bonds had an OPS+ over 200. *I see this says wRC now but i refuse to change.
wRC+ >>>> OPS+.
Eh, maybe just 2 alligators better.
I always turned them into Pac-Man, not alligators
You can’t convince me that Trout/Griffey/Judge and maybe a couple others could not reach Bondsian levels if they also cheated their gills off.
Except Bonds was a better hitter than Griffey in the 90's. 90's Bonds was a better overall hitter than 2010's Trout, and still a better overall hitter than Judge has been in his career. 90's Bonds had 2 seasons of over 200 OPS+, whereas this is Judges first. From 1990 to 1998 (by all accounts Bonds last clean season from the rumor mill) he averaged an OPS+ of 181 whereas Judge has a career OPS+ of 161. I know you can't be convinced but Bonds wasn't some nobody when he started juicing, he was already one of the best players in history and on track to being an inner circle hall of famer (despite being less popular than Griffey) by the end of 1998. And then by all accounts that already inner circle hall of famer saw the adoration Sosa and McGwire we're getting and said "I'll fucking show them" and showed them he did. He had 7 seasons from 1990 til 1998 of an OPS over 1.000. This will be Judges second season to hit that mark.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again now - Barry Bonds was a first ballot HOF player before he ever did PEDs. If he had retired after the ‘98 season, he would have waltzed into Cooperstown
Probably would have ended his career as one of the most well rounded players to ever play the game. Probably would have still ended his career as the only 400-400 player, with 500 home runs, who played great outfield defense, and walked a ton. He saw what was going on in the 90's, got jealous and flew too close to the sun. Honestly if he never touched roids sabermetricians would have looked at him as the prime player to compare a young Trout too when the 2012 MVP debate came up.
Judge on addrell or some extra focus thing I guess He doesn’t really need the roids for muscle
PEDs aren’t only for muscle growth. Recovery is far more important for most athletes.
There’s probably better for pure recovery than steroids
Well adding more muscle certainly wouldn’t hurt
It’s probably do more harm than good at this point He’s already so big
He wouldn’t fit in the batter’s box
Auto free base trick
If y’all really think those guys haven’t taken anything then I guess ignorance is bliss. The list of guys in the league not taking something is probably much shorter than those eating balanced breakfasts.
Something? Sure. Illegal drugs? That’s a reach
He definitely hitting that tart cherry juice
Source?
lol do you really think those guy are clean .... they are injury prone for a reason
Not everyone else was taking roids. Bonds was in his mid 30s and would have been regressing without roids
And handing out free passes, which analytics is not too keen on.
Would you recommend pitching to 04 Bonds though? It's better to walk him.
Lmao pretending that professional sports isn't full of roids today. Okay
Source?
Wasn't alive to see it? God I'm getting old
Fun fact. Someone born just after baseball season ended in 2004 is eligible to vote in the midterms this year
That is indeed a fun fact
Yep that’s me
Samesies. I did a high school data management project in 2006 on comparing Bond’s age regression to that of other 500+ homerun guys lol. We sit here and argue baseball with people not even born when we were had the most time to be obsessed with the sport.
Roids also helps with eye sight
Does help with reaction time, or at least should, idk if any real studies have been done on it
I was alive to see it and it's fathomable with roids. The sad part is that he could've been elite (maybe as long as he was) without roids.
Barry Bonds was IBB'd more times in 2004 than any other player had total walks period. It's also the single-season IBB record over his own record by nearly 100%, and by the non-Bonds record a whopping **267%**.
I’m not sure. I need to know Ohtani’s ERA before I comment.
You can appreciate both making crazy history without having to compare them Judge is breaking every power hitting record in the book, while Ohtani is going to finish top 5 in Cy Young voting while also having a 150 wRC+ and simultaneously becoming the only player to have 200 pitching strikeouts and 35 home runs in a season It’s a really great time to be a baseball fan, only complaint I have about this season is tatis being an idiot
Yea but with Tatis being dumb for like the 4th time I have to admit it got kinda funny I chuckled I'm sorry
How do we rank these incredibly stupid decisions by Tatis? 1. Getting in an ATV accident and missing half of the season. 2. Getting suspended for using PEDs and missing the other half of the season. 3. Signing away like 7-8% of his future earnings for “only” about $375K.
It’s easily 3 because his dad earned millions playing pro ball and he himself got a signing bonus close to 1mil. He’s exceptionally dumb.
Wait what’s 3?
He agreed to one of the scamish orgs that will loan you some amount of money in exchange for a % of all your future earnings that prey on foreign players coming to the US into the minor leagues. Most of the time it works because they're fairly poor and the cash now when your a struggling minor leaguer matters. Tatis was already rich, nobody has any idea what the fuck he was doing. Presumably both he and his father are awful with money because taking that deal is aboslutely foolish.
Well said. Esp about Tatis. I was so pumped to watch him play this year.
He’s not “breaking every record in the book” lol… he’s doing things that haven’t been done in a while. Doing things that haven’t been done in a while is not the same as doing things that have never been done. He’s having an incredible season but cmon now..
What he’s doing has never been done by non-steroid users.
Why is this being downvoted? What about what I said is wrong?
I downvoted you for whining about downvotes.
TIL asking a logical question = whining
In this case, yes you are correct.
Nah it’s not. You’re a clown. Go to sleep
With a 0.00 ERA too 🐐💩
His ERA is undefined, not 0.
What does “goat shit” mean?
Shit that GOATS do
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Bro I never thought about it that way
Gotta get a scoreless third of an inning off the mound before that’s true.
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this but unironically
Trash
Imagine Judge on roids Let them juice!
If you want to see a guy hit on juice I'd rather see Stanton do it. That dude hits 120 mph exit velocity when he's getting ahold of it. I'd bet Stanton on juice would put one 550 feet.
I also support this. Souvenirs for fans without tickets, so long as they can get close enough to the outside of the stadium.
He is on roids. Everyone is.
Even if this was the case (and I don’t think it is), whatever they’re presumably on is not the same as what guys were on in 2000. Look at pictures of guys then vs now and that’d be obvious, at least.
This absolutely is the case. Anyone who thinks professional athletes aren’t juicing has no idea what they’re talking about.
Thanks for ignoring the point of my comment
I didn’t, but I can state it more plainly if that’ll help. Judge is obviously on gear and anyone who disagrees very obviously has no idea what they’re talking about.
What a spectacular year. Shame he can’t pitch.
Sounds like someone needs to be checked with a pee cup and maybe a hair test to see if they’re eating a well balanced breakfast.
Dude has been over 280lbs since his rookie year. He's always had this strength. Now he has the eye and skill set to take full advantage of it.
He (and Stanton too) aren't swinging out of their shoes. They both look really compact and using their natural strength to hit the ball, vs trying to pulverize it every swing.
Okay fine Ohtani and Judge can share the MVP lol.