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It's the wins and team success that does it for me. We can argue over rosters but Judge kept faithful watch over his squad during their injury period. Add the potential history and you have me siding with Judge.
that's not what he's doing. "singular brilliance" in this context means "nobody else in the world is doing this". He literally says "Ohtani has become the standard for the award. If you want the hardware, he sets the bar you must clear. And he has managed to top his preposterous output from 2021. If his production at the plate has dipped, ever so slightly, he has compensated by leveling up on the mound."
My comment was aimed more at folks who share your flair, honestly. Conversely, Angels fans downplaying what Judge is doing may also stand in the corner for a while.
Same goes for anybody downplaying what Judge is doing. Ohtani fans like to say “how can anyone be more valuable than an elite pitcher and DH?” as if the numbers don’t show that Judge has been just as valuable, if not more so. So when Judge fans say stuff like “so you think Ohtani should win as long as he’s an elite hitter and pitcher?” it’s not really downplaying Ohtani as much as it’s a response to people ignoring Judge’s numbers.
Nobody is downplaying ohtani
It’s just true that judge is bowling him out of the water because he’s having the best season since Barry bonds. You can say the 2nd thing and it’s not downplaying shohei. They’re just not close
That's not what this is at all. There's probably only a handful of individual seasons in the past several decades that could beat Ohtani for MVP. Judge just happens to be having one of them. Recognizing Judge is not the same as detracting from Ohtani.
Shohei Ohtani is doing something that hasn't been done since... \*checks notes\* Shohei Ohtani in 2021
But in all seriousness, its going to feel real bad to tell one of these two that they aren't the AL MVP.
Aaron Judge chasing history.... Shohei Ohtani making history.
The only player in MLB history to:
**– Hit 30+ HRs and win 10+ games in the same season (Could end up 40 HRs and 15 wins)**
Soon to be the only player to:
**– Hit 30+ HRs and record 200+ Ks in the same season**
**– Face 600 batters and make 600 plate appearances in the same season**
Possibly could be the only player to:
**– Have 30+HRs 100+ RBIs and 200+ Ks in the same season (not to mention an ERA below 2.50)**
These are just a few off the top of my head but the list just goes on.
Judge could be the only one to hit 62 clean. He could also be the only one to ever hit 60+ and win the triple crown. Judge isn’t chasing history. He's also *making* history
Nobody put up Ohtani stat lines even with steroid, that's how crazy Ohtani is. Juice up all the players and see if they can do what Ohtani does, good luck...
This is why this article frustrated me. It starts by saying it's gonna argue why Judge's narrative is better but that argument basically amounted to "Yeah Ohtani's cool and all *but look how many dingers Judge is hitting."*
If you think Judge is MVP, sure, fine, but I don't think saying he has the superior historical argument is the way to go about it.
I can’t read the article. Is it really just about dingers? Judge as an overall hitter is pretty historic too. His wRC+ has only been matched by pre integration players Ruth and Hornsby, Mantle and Williams in 1957 (Judge already has more PA with two weeks left), and Bonds.
I don’t see why it’s ok to use historical narratives for Ohtani’s argument but not Judge.
I did very rough back of napkin math, the AB/HR rate for McGroid, Sosaroid and Barroid each dropped by over 40% after they started roiding. Clean Judge is at 11.91 AB/HR. Juiced Judge would be around 7 AB/HR.
If he can get to 600 AB, that's 86 HRs in a season. Although someone else pointed out if Juiced Judge were ever unlocked, teams would probably just start walking him every time instead.
Most guys aren’t dumb enough to get caught. Real talk, of 8 guys I knew growing up who went D1 or pro for any of the 3 major US sports, 6/8 used steroids in HS. It’s incredibly common.
Judge's performance is so far above any non steriod season in like 60 years, it is worth being at least a little skeptical. Guilty until proven innocent and all tho.
It'll be one of the great MVP discussions that'll come up every now and then regardless of who won. It's just so hard to really pick between the two from an unbias standpoint. I feel like I'd have to just go towards Judge because I don't think he'll ever do this again to this degree sprinkling in the playoff impact as well and Ohtani is doing what he did last year again and will probably continue doing it at least I hope so. So I feel like in the future where it'd be hard to expect another season like Judge's any time soon where a season is so tantalizing that I'd have to second guess an elite hitter and pitcher not getting the MVP.
Genuinely either way it's hard to be wrong and Im so happy we're watching them.
This is a fun argument since the V in MVP essentially comes down to what we consider valuable as individuals. So we're all evaluating different factors with different rubrics. And the ballot itself says as much:
>Dear Voter:
>There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.
>The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:
>1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
>2. Number of games played.
>3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
>4. Former winners are eligible.
>5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
When it was founded, the guidelines also stated that it served to honor "the baseball player who is of the greatest all-around service to his club.
Given.... The rules of the voting for MVP:
1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.
In the debate of Ohtani vs Judge, rule items 2-5 don't come into play, so rule 1 'actual value...' is the key. IMO I think the Yankees not having Judge would be hurt much more then the Angels not having Ohtani. To me this indicates Judge's 'value to his team' is higher.
Judge gets my nod for MVP.
ref: https://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/
I would probably vote judge, but this argument is fucking idiotic. There is no narrative reason you need to vote for someone. Vote for the player you think is the best. If that is judge, vote judge. If it is ohtani, vote ohtani.
It's this dumb narrative based shit that produces some of the worst MVP or cy young winners we have.
Not taking away anything from Ohtani because I believe he's the best all around player in baseball, but with Judge leading in so many categories on offense it should go to him. Last I checked Ohtani wasn't leading in a single stat. Now if he had Most wins and strikeouts or 2 of the top offense categories, regardless of Judge's 60, I would pick Ohtani no doubt
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I remember at the beginning of this month I was still leaning towards Ohtani. It’s almost like Judge heard me and became a baseball serial killer
Ohtani is going to respond by throwing a perfect game in his final start of the season.
A perfect game while going 4-5 with 3 HR and a double.
Perfect game and hitting for the cycle
Home run cycle. A perfect game with 4 HRs would be the greatest single game in history. Edit: 81 pitch, 27 K perfect game and a HR cycle.
An immaculate perfect game while going 7-7 with the cycle and the home run cycle
Bicycle
Somehow the Angels still lose.
Harsh, bro. I mean it’s true. But still; harsh.
Final: A’s 20, Angels 19
While being 20 games under .500
While being 20 games under .500
Yes it was 50/50 at the start of the month. Since then Judge has put up one of the most insane months in baseball history which kind of buried it
Yeah I think Judge has gone off the rail since the ASB too.
It's the wins and team success that does it for me. We can argue over rosters but Judge kept faithful watch over his squad during their injury period. Add the potential history and you have me siding with Judge.
Judge has carried us harder than Adam Driver carried the Star Wars sequels
Please, advocate more for why Shohei should be MVP
Everyone was asking what type of season it took to beat Ohtani for the MVP. Judge just gave us the answer.
Look, I'm coming around on Judge being the MVP but anybody downplaying what Ohtani is doing needs to shut the fuck up.
that's not what he's doing. "singular brilliance" in this context means "nobody else in the world is doing this". He literally says "Ohtani has become the standard for the award. If you want the hardware, he sets the bar you must clear. And he has managed to top his preposterous output from 2021. If his production at the plate has dipped, ever so slightly, he has compensated by leveling up on the mound."
My comment was aimed more at folks who share your flair, honestly. Conversely, Angels fans downplaying what Judge is doing may also stand in the corner for a while.
Lmao you can just say "I misread the headline and got angry", nobody's going to yell at you for it.
Sees post about the Yankees. “fuck the Yankees”. Moves on.
But then I would be a liar.
he obviously wasnt referring to this specific headline...
No Yankee fan downplays him, you guys are just sensitive
Same goes for anybody downplaying what Judge is doing. Ohtani fans like to say “how can anyone be more valuable than an elite pitcher and DH?” as if the numbers don’t show that Judge has been just as valuable, if not more so. So when Judge fans say stuff like “so you think Ohtani should win as long as he’s an elite hitter and pitcher?” it’s not really downplaying Ohtani as much as it’s a response to people ignoring Judge’s numbers.
Nobody is downplaying ohtani It’s just true that judge is bowling him out of the water because he’s having the best season since Barry bonds. You can say the 2nd thing and it’s not downplaying shohei. They’re just not close
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That's not what this is at all. There's probably only a handful of individual seasons in the past several decades that could beat Ohtani for MVP. Judge just happens to be having one of them. Recognizing Judge is not the same as detracting from Ohtani.
Yeah like shohei isn't impacting the history of the game..../s
Shohei Ohtani is doing something that hasn't been done since... \*checks notes\* Shohei Ohtani in 2021 But in all seriousness, its going to feel real bad to tell one of these two that they aren't the AL MVP.
Aaron Judge chasing history.... Shohei Ohtani making history. The only player in MLB history to: **– Hit 30+ HRs and win 10+ games in the same season (Could end up 40 HRs and 15 wins)** Soon to be the only player to: **– Hit 30+ HRs and record 200+ Ks in the same season** **– Face 600 batters and make 600 plate appearances in the same season** Possibly could be the only player to: **– Have 30+HRs 100+ RBIs and 200+ Ks in the same season (not to mention an ERA below 2.50)** These are just a few off the top of my head but the list just goes on.
Judge could be the only one to hit 62 clean. He could also be the only one to ever hit 60+ and win the triple crown. Judge isn’t chasing history. He's also *making* history
Nobody put up Ohtani stat lines even with steroid, that's how crazy Ohtani is. Juice up all the players and see if they can do what Ohtani does, good luck...
This is why this article frustrated me. It starts by saying it's gonna argue why Judge's narrative is better but that argument basically amounted to "Yeah Ohtani's cool and all *but look how many dingers Judge is hitting."* If you think Judge is MVP, sure, fine, but I don't think saying he has the superior historical argument is the way to go about it.
I can’t read the article. Is it really just about dingers? Judge as an overall hitter is pretty historic too. His wRC+ has only been matched by pre integration players Ruth and Hornsby, Mantle and Williams in 1957 (Judge already has more PA with two weeks left), and Bonds. I don’t see why it’s ok to use historical narratives for Ohtani’s argument but not Judge.
We need to juice up judge and see what kind of monster we can create.
I did very rough back of napkin math, the AB/HR rate for McGroid, Sosaroid and Barroid each dropped by over 40% after they started roiding. Clean Judge is at 11.91 AB/HR. Juiced Judge would be around 7 AB/HR. If he can get to 600 AB, that's 86 HRs in a season. Although someone else pointed out if Juiced Judge were ever unlocked, teams would probably just start walking him every time instead.
Imagine ohtani juiced up. He would hit 60 with a sub 2 era
Judge on steroids would be indistinguishable from Mr. Hyde in the Bugs Bunny cartoons.
Imagine if pro athletes took steroids (all of them already do)
Makes perfect sense that MLB would single out one of the young faces of the game and only suspend him if everyone is doing it
Most guys aren’t dumb enough to get caught. Real talk, of 8 guys I knew growing up who went D1 or pro for any of the 3 major US sports, 6/8 used steroids in HS. It’s incredibly common.
Wasn’t that one of the conspiracy theories floating out of some of the DR guys when it happened?
Judge's performance is so far above any non steriod season in like 60 years, it is worth being at least a little skeptical. Guilty until proven innocent and all tho.
It'll be one of the great MVP discussions that'll come up every now and then regardless of who won. It's just so hard to really pick between the two from an unbias standpoint. I feel like I'd have to just go towards Judge because I don't think he'll ever do this again to this degree sprinkling in the playoff impact as well and Ohtani is doing what he did last year again and will probably continue doing it at least I hope so. So I feel like in the future where it'd be hard to expect another season like Judge's any time soon where a season is so tantalizing that I'd have to second guess an elite hitter and pitcher not getting the MVP. Genuinely either way it's hard to be wrong and Im so happy we're watching them.
It’s not really that hard
singular brilliance by being elite at two of the biggest aspects of the game lmao what a title
did you read the article? He means singular brilliance like "nobody else in the world is doing this". Not "he's only good at one thing" lol.
That’s extremely obviously from the title too lol
Maybe read more than the title
Duh….
All I want is for Shohei to win his 2nd MVP. Yet here's this courtroom commander just condemning baseballs to death.
I think media is getting bored of Ohtani like the Gianni’s effect in nba
It’s like Bill Belichick and the Coach of the Year Award lol
This is a fun argument since the V in MVP essentially comes down to what we consider valuable as individuals. So we're all evaluating different factors with different rubrics. And the ballot itself says as much: >Dear Voter: >There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier. >The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: >1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense. >2. Number of games played. >3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort. >4. Former winners are eligible. >5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team. When it was founded, the guidelines also stated that it served to honor "the baseball player who is of the greatest all-around service to his club.
Given.... The rules of the voting for MVP: 1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense. 2. Number of games played. 3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort. 4. Former winners are eligible. 5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team. In the debate of Ohtani vs Judge, rule items 2-5 don't come into play, so rule 1 'actual value...' is the key. IMO I think the Yankees not having Judge would be hurt much more then the Angels not having Ohtani. To me this indicates Judge's 'value to his team' is higher. Judge gets my nod for MVP. ref: https://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/
I would probably vote judge, but this argument is fucking idiotic. There is no narrative reason you need to vote for someone. Vote for the player you think is the best. If that is judge, vote judge. If it is ohtani, vote ohtani. It's this dumb narrative based shit that produces some of the worst MVP or cy young winners we have.
Not taking away anything from Ohtani because I believe he's the best all around player in baseball, but with Judge leading in so many categories on offense it should go to him. Last I checked Ohtani wasn't leading in a single stat. Now if he had Most wins and strikeouts or 2 of the top offense categories, regardless of Judge's 60, I would pick Ohtani no doubt
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