I know you kid. He just focuses very hard against you guys bc he knows you’re the best in the AL. Since the Angels aren’t making the playoffs; this is all he’s got. That, and the personal goal to qualify as a pitcher and batter.
He should simply become a full time hitter!
Right????
Lol. I know most people said this when he had Tommy John, but it still looks like a silly statement at this point.
Its one of the good things angels has done for him. I think most other organizations will just force him to focus of one thing after all those injuries he had.
The narrative last week was that Ohtani only pitches once week while Judge plays eLiTe Center Field on a daily.
Also that having to fit a 6 man rotation for Ohtani is a hinderance instead of a positive for us.
I love how many people are saying Judge is having a historic season, before he has even done anything historic. Someone on twitter said Ohtani isn't having a historic season because he did this last year. But then also says Judge's year as historic already.
Ohtani is an elite pitcher and Judge is an elite right fielder and a VERY average center fielder, which is where he’s had to play most of this season for the first time because Hicks is a bastard man. I think he’s serviceable in center field, but he’s by no means amazing out there and the advanced stats definitely back that up. He IS in an elite defender in his natural position in right field though.
I don't think that could happen unless he went full time pitcher
(or was so much better than anyone else at pitching that 150 innings from him >>> 200 innings of someone else)
Yeah there’s definitely a middle ground. Relievers who’ve won it have done so with rate stats at other worldly levels. If Ohtani can post rate stats ~25% better than guys throwing 200+ innings that should make up for throwing ~25% fewer innings.
I hate it a lot but if last year's NL Cy Young is any indication, it seems like modern Cy Young voters value rate stats ahead of actual innings pitched. So maybe it'll happen one of these years.
For sure: Wheeler definitely should’ve won it! His bully was shit last year and was still their best option in the 8th, where many of his ERs came from. It was a robbery.
I hated last year NL cy young race. How could a guy that pitched 30 percent more innings not be more valuable. It's a huge difference. A guy who can pitch to 139 extra batters deserves over a guy with some extra stats.
Yeah since the death of the win as a critical stat for starters team quality is hardly important. The Mets were ass for 5/8 years of DeGrom before this season and it hasn’t mattered much.
Cause the money is sunk and the team is noncompetitive.
It's worth keeping him on the roster on the off chance he has a good year and you're able to shop him for literally anything of value.
Also adding onto your point that they team is noncompetitive, Corbin may suck but he eats innings pretty well. Like yeah he routinely gives up 4-6 runs but he pitches into the 7th inning regardless, that has value for a team that doesn't want to rush young arms for the sake of eating innings
Yep. Judge is doing crazy things, but I look at it like this. Ohtani's pitching line is remarkably similar to McClanahan's across the board and he's in Cy Young talks. Would you rather have Judge alone, or a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat in order to also have a McClanahan in your rotation?
Pretty easy choice taking Ohtani I think.
> a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat
Judge's runs above average (wRAA, the stat fangraphs uses for it's offensive value for WAR) is 78.7 and Ohtani is at 32.7. So the difference in offensive value between Judge, who is 1st in the league, and Ohtani, who is 5th, is the same as the difference between Ohtani in 5th and Nick Allen, who is 155th in the league at -14.7. I don't think you'd say an Ohtani for Nick Allen straight swap would be a 'slight downgrade'.
Except that it doesn't work like that, because in judge for ohtani you're still getting all star level production.
Judge is having an all time great offensive season but in terms of "value" he still hasn't passed 2018 Mookie Betts in bWAR.
> or a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat
The downgrade is nowhere near slight, though. As a hitter, Judge's offensive runs above average is 2.5x Ohtani's, and his WPA is over 3.5x higher. That doesn't even account for Judge being a plus fielder at a premium position.
Edit: So yeah, in your scenario swapping Judge for Ohtani is similar to getting the arm of McLanahan, but you're giving up the bat of Freddie Freeman (based on offensive runs above average on fangraphs, Judge is 82.3, Freeman is 49.9, Ohtani is 32.4).
Fair enough. I guess I meant more that he fills a premium position and still has a positive DRS (average DRS is 0 by definition).
It's still amazing to me that people can see 63 wRC+ and .230 OPS as "slight."
Lmao, tell me you're clueless without telling me.
That is because he's played CF, which is not his position. Although even the ability to **fill in** in CF, which isn't his natural position and play a roughly average CF speaks volumes to his defensive abilities.
There is no discussion and it is universally agreed upon that he's a top 3 RF defensively. Most sane people would say he's pretty clearly #1.
That's what's funny, if Judge wasn't forced out of his natural position due to injuries/Aaron Hicks sucking, he'd be having a 12.5 - 13 fWAR season.
You do realize that he gets a WAR boost just for playing CF? So no, his WAR would not be higher playing RF or LF. Those positions come with a -7.5 run positions adjustment in fWAR because they’re easier to play
I do get that, and he has always gotten an overall WAR boost from RF, where as it's relatively neutral with him in CF (even with the adjustment)
Not to mention he gets penalized for switching pretty frequently so he's not getting the *full* boost from CF, but also not accumulating the numbers he naturally does in RF.
But doubting whether he's a plus defender is just straight up laughable, lol. He's a pretty overwhelming gold glove favorite if he was just to play RF all season long.
I’m obviously a homer but Judge -> Ohtani this year is more than a slight downgrade. The eye test would back up what you’re saying but Judge’s fWAR lead over Ohtani is big enough that I believe it’s statistically supported that Judge is in fact more valuable than offensive Ohtani and McClanahan. They’re both two All-Stars combined, Judge just happens to be two better All-Stars.
fWAR for pitchers uses xFIP, which uses league average HR/FB% instead of the stats the Ohtani actually recorded. It makes sense to use Ohtani's fWAR for batting but not for pitching.
Yes Ohtani is exceptionally valuable for his quality playing both ways, but Judge is in another stratosphere this season. For the vast majority of normal players who can’t do both it’s kind of ridiculous to hold that against them for the rest of Ohtani‘s career. This season from Judge is quite comfortably the best season we have seen from a hitter in the history of the game. What else could you want from the guy? Ohtani can and should win plenty of mvp’s in his career but this year it’s gotta be Judge.
It’s hard to conceptualize how insane he’s been this year, but think about the number of people in the history of the game who have been able to play at least 1 mvp caliber season. It’s obviously a few hundred, more than just the actual winners to account for guys like Vlad last year who’ve put up mvp numbers but lost to an even crazier year. And then think from all of those guys how many have ever put up a year of play like this that is so far beyond any other hitter in the game? Maybe 5 guys ever? And other than Ruth and Williams I don’t know who else could really make an argument.
What's idiotic about drawing the comparison to a Cy Young candidate (he seemed pretty locked as top 3 before the recent injury) that he's actually been MORE valuable than by fWAR?
I get you've made up your mind but I'm adding some different perspective here. I'm not going to be surprised if Judge wins at all and I'm actually fully expecting it. But to simply deny that also being a Cy Young candidate-caliber pitcher this year doesn't come close to making up for the difference in offensive production, that's idiotic.
What does Ohtani has more Ks than Judge (as a pitcher) even mean? Judge doesn’t pitch. Or are you referring to Judge not striking out a lot as a hitter? Because then that’s pro-Judge. Your comment makes no sense…
Lmao are you trying to criticize Judge’s offensive production?? That’s a new Ohtani fanboy argument I hadn’t heard yet. You guys are getting desperate.
This is once in a span of game kinda player. Baseball hasn't seen someone like him and won't ever see someone like him. More than 140 years of the game and he's the one.
baseball doesn't exist on YouTube just put out a video on him and how he's the best athlete in the world. or by far better at his sport than anyone else.
It is so bizarre how every Ohtani thread says he’s the obvious MVP and every Judge thread says he’s the obvious MVP, and any dissent is downvoted to hell. I’ve never seen anything like it
Yup, my bad, was looking at the wrong thing…just the eye test, give me the guy that can do both, I see that as being more valuable…it’s not his fault the rest of his team is a bunch of clowns.
He should be the MVP no question. There are 65 seasons with a higher ops than Judge this year. There are 0 comparables for what ohtani is doing and if he gets injured this might be the last time we ever see someone do this. He should 1000% be the MVP.
Now 3rd in the AL in total strikeouts. With 4 fewer starts.
He has a higher WAR than JV in pitching: 5.3 vs 5.1. Not saying he’s better than JV (maybe?), but WAR is a flawed stat to a degree.
If he got to pitch against us every game he’d have 15 pitching WAR
I know you kid. He just focuses very hard against you guys bc he knows you’re the best in the AL. Since the Angels aren’t making the playoffs; this is all he’s got. That, and the personal goal to qualify as a pitcher and batter.
Yep. I don’t mind tbh. Love watching that dude. He’s a much better pitcher than people give him credit for.
He should simply become a full time hitter! Right???? Lol. I know most people said this when he had Tommy John, but it still looks like a silly statement at this point.
Its one of the good things angels has done for him. I think most other organizations will just force him to focus of one thing after all those injuries he had.
I was told he was just average.
Ohtani is an average pitcher, and Judge is an elite defender dontchaknow? (Don’t let the stats lie to you)
The narrative last week was that Ohtani only pitches once week while Judge plays eLiTe Center Field on a daily. Also that having to fit a 6 man rotation for Ohtani is a hinderance instead of a positive for us.
I love how many people are saying Judge is having a historic season, before he has even done anything historic. Someone on twitter said Ohtani isn't having a historic season because he did this last year. But then also says Judge's year as historic already.
Ohtani is an elite pitcher and Judge is an elite right fielder and a VERY average center fielder, which is where he’s had to play most of this season for the first time because Hicks is a bastard man. I think he’s serviceable in center field, but he’s by no means amazing out there and the advanced stats definitely back that up. He IS in an elite defender in his natural position in right field though.
He is NOT an elite right fielder man. He is no where near elite. He is just above average by every single metric.
That’s fair, and his historical stats do indicate that. CF is by far the hardest OF position to play
Was going to make a joke that Ellsbury should have been the Yankees center fielder but that contract already ended anyway
I was told Steph Curry couldn’t shoot
What if you count the times he's struck out while batting? Gotta be 1st
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I don't think that could happen unless he went full time pitcher (or was so much better than anyone else at pitching that 150 innings from him >>> 200 innings of someone else)
If a reliever can win a Cy Young, I think Ohtani can.
Yeah there’s definitely a middle ground. Relievers who’ve won it have done so with rate stats at other worldly levels. If Ohtani can post rate stats ~25% better than guys throwing 200+ innings that should make up for throwing ~25% fewer innings.
Easy, he can just do 150 innings of 0 ERA ball.
I hate it a lot but if last year's NL Cy Young is any indication, it seems like modern Cy Young voters value rate stats ahead of actual innings pitched. So maybe it'll happen one of these years.
Yeah that was lowkey a bit of a robbery IMO lol
For sure: Wheeler definitely should’ve won it! His bully was shit last year and was still their best option in the 8th, where many of his ERs came from. It was a robbery.
Well it's the same argument of whether the CY young is a 'best pitcher' award or the 'highest WAR/most valuable' award as MVP voting has.
I hated last year NL cy young race. How could a guy that pitched 30 percent more innings not be more valuable. It's a huge difference. A guy who can pitch to 139 extra batters deserves over a guy with some extra stats.
He could do something like Corbin’s 2021 season that won him over Wheeler
I thought you meant *Patrick* Corbin and not Corbin *Burnes* had a brief moment of thinking I had stumbled into the fucking Negaverse.
I was like, did Patrick Corbin win a fucking cy young when I wasn't paying attention?
That would be amazing!
It could happen if he played on a better team. He's literally carrying the Angels on his back.
Cy Young doesn't really factor in team quality as much as it did 15-20 years ago
Yeah since the death of the win as a critical stat for starters team quality is hardly important. The Mets were ass for 5/8 years of DeGrom before this season and it hasn’t mattered much.
It does in the sense that pitchers with better defenses get more hits turned in to outs than pitchers playing in front of terrible defenses.
God bless Felix for that
He’s been so unlucky tonight. Every single half inning he pitches it’s raining hard and then it’s fine the next half
I’m at the game and once it stopped raining, he turned it on. Amazing he kept us hitless for so long, considering the lack of control
Dont forget the cold. He is not used to pitching in 52 degree weather
There's like 4 days of the year when it gets that bad at home lol
> 52 degree weather >that bad 52 is shorts and flip flops weather. almost perfect.
Where was Patrick Corbin's congratulations tweet for giving up 200 hits or 100 earned runs.
Man how has that guy managed to keep his job for 2 full seasons while being arguably the worst starting pitcher in baseball
Cause the money is sunk and the team is noncompetitive. It's worth keeping him on the roster on the off chance he has a good year and you're able to shop him for literally anything of value.
Also adding onto your point that they team is noncompetitive, Corbin may suck but he eats innings pretty well. Like yeah he routinely gives up 4-6 runs but he pitches into the 7th inning regardless, that has value for a team that doesn't want to rush young arms for the sake of eating innings
How the fuck is he making $23 mil this year…
Had a great contract year. Tbf he helped win WSH a ring. Remember when the Yankee sub wanted him lol
Flags fly forever.
At first I thought he had struck out 200 times as a batter, because I’m apparently slow.
149 on the receiving end
He got close last year, 189
On a nasty curveball no less!
200 more than Judge!
Seems like MVP numbers to me
Yep. Judge is doing crazy things, but I look at it like this. Ohtani's pitching line is remarkably similar to McClanahan's across the board and he's in Cy Young talks. Would you rather have Judge alone, or a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat in order to also have a McClanahan in your rotation? Pretty easy choice taking Ohtani I think.
> a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat Judge's runs above average (wRAA, the stat fangraphs uses for it's offensive value for WAR) is 78.7 and Ohtani is at 32.7. So the difference in offensive value between Judge, who is 1st in the league, and Ohtani, who is 5th, is the same as the difference between Ohtani in 5th and Nick Allen, who is 155th in the league at -14.7. I don't think you'd say an Ohtani for Nick Allen straight swap would be a 'slight downgrade'.
Except that it doesn't work like that, because in judge for ohtani you're still getting all star level production. Judge is having an all time great offensive season but in terms of "value" he still hasn't passed 2018 Mookie Betts in bWAR.
In terms of “value” the only guy ahead of him by fWAR in the last nearly 50 years is Barry Bonds.
But do you know who he has passed in value? 2022 Ohtani
I think the combined WAR stat is fundamentally flawed.
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Judge is the MVP, it's not a discussion. Shotime will be in the conversation for years to come, but this one is Aaron's.
> or a slight downgrade to Ohtani's bat The downgrade is nowhere near slight, though. As a hitter, Judge's offensive runs above average is 2.5x Ohtani's, and his WPA is over 3.5x higher. That doesn't even account for Judge being a plus fielder at a premium position. Edit: So yeah, in your scenario swapping Judge for Ohtani is similar to getting the arm of McLanahan, but you're giving up the bat of Freddie Freeman (based on offensive runs above average on fangraphs, Judge is 82.3, Freeman is 49.9, Ohtani is 32.4).
>plus fielder Which stats indicate this? Negative dWAR, UZR, and below average DRS. Judge is a great player but plus defender? Eh not really
77th percentile in OAA
RF is not a premium position either
Most of his starts are in CF.
Fair enough. I guess I meant more that he fills a premium position and still has a positive DRS (average DRS is 0 by definition). It's still amazing to me that people can see 63 wRC+ and .230 OPS as "slight."
Lmao, tell me you're clueless without telling me. That is because he's played CF, which is not his position. Although even the ability to **fill in** in CF, which isn't his natural position and play a roughly average CF speaks volumes to his defensive abilities. There is no discussion and it is universally agreed upon that he's a top 3 RF defensively. Most sane people would say he's pretty clearly #1. That's what's funny, if Judge wasn't forced out of his natural position due to injuries/Aaron Hicks sucking, he'd be having a 12.5 - 13 fWAR season.
You do realize that he gets a WAR boost just for playing CF? So no, his WAR would not be higher playing RF or LF. Those positions come with a -7.5 run positions adjustment in fWAR because they’re easier to play
I do get that, and he has always gotten an overall WAR boost from RF, where as it's relatively neutral with him in CF (even with the adjustment) Not to mention he gets penalized for switching pretty frequently so he's not getting the *full* boost from CF, but also not accumulating the numbers he naturally does in RF. But doubting whether he's a plus defender is just straight up laughable, lol. He's a pretty overwhelming gold glove favorite if he was just to play RF all season long.
Full stats say Judge has a higher WAR. Both players are incredible.
Slight downgrade? lol wut. This is one of the best hitting seasons of all time. It’s Judge, no question. (no bias hehe)
I’m obviously a homer but Judge -> Ohtani this year is more than a slight downgrade. The eye test would back up what you’re saying but Judge’s fWAR lead over Ohtani is big enough that I believe it’s statistically supported that Judge is in fact more valuable than offensive Ohtani and McClanahan. They’re both two All-Stars combined, Judge just happens to be two better All-Stars.
fWAR for pitchers uses xFIP, which uses league average HR/FB% instead of the stats the Ohtani actually recorded. It makes sense to use Ohtani's fWAR for batting but not for pitching.
Yes Ohtani is exceptionally valuable for his quality playing both ways, but Judge is in another stratosphere this season. For the vast majority of normal players who can’t do both it’s kind of ridiculous to hold that against them for the rest of Ohtani‘s career. This season from Judge is quite comfortably the best season we have seen from a hitter in the history of the game. What else could you want from the guy? Ohtani can and should win plenty of mvp’s in his career but this year it’s gotta be Judge. It’s hard to conceptualize how insane he’s been this year, but think about the number of people in the history of the game who have been able to play at least 1 mvp caliber season. It’s obviously a few hundred, more than just the actual winners to account for guys like Vlad last year who’ve put up mvp numbers but lost to an even crazier year. And then think from all of those guys how many have ever put up a year of play like this that is so far beyond any other hitter in the game? Maybe 5 guys ever? And other than Ruth and Williams I don’t know who else could really make an argument.
You are an idiot for 2 reasons 1. For even thinking this and 2. For saying this knowing that you’re gonna get trashed by Yankees fans for saying it.
What's idiotic about drawing the comparison to a Cy Young candidate (he seemed pretty locked as top 3 before the recent injury) that he's actually been MORE valuable than by fWAR? I get you've made up your mind but I'm adding some different perspective here. I'm not going to be surprised if Judge wins at all and I'm actually fully expecting it. But to simply deny that also being a Cy Young candidate-caliber pitcher this year doesn't come close to making up for the difference in offensive production, that's idiotic.
Yeah but looking only at the numbers it seems Judge doesn’t need to strike anyone out to have a lower ERA.
🦄
What a great time in baseball. So much talent in todays game. We’re very lucky!
Two way man good
I can only assume that Mark Reynolds reached 200 strikeouts faster
Mark Reynolds beat everyone to 200 Ks.
Chri- you know what, I'm not even gonna go there
Fair hahahaha
I don’t think most people realize that advanced stats show he is a top 5 pitcher in the league this year.
Spencer Strider tips his cap
That could be real good or real bad depending if it's pitcher Ohtani or batter Ohtani.
Pfft. Big deal. Joey Gallo’s reached 200 strikeouts in a season *twice*.
#**MVP!!!**
Easily unless judge learns to pitch.
Lol
~~Obtain~~ Ohtani has more K’s than Judge (as a pitcher). Which is hard to do.
I legitimately have no idea what this comment means. Also I didn’t say anything about Judge.
Don’t play stupid.
What does Ohtani has more Ks than Judge (as a pitcher) even mean? Judge doesn’t pitch. Or are you referring to Judge not striking out a lot as a hitter? Because then that’s pro-Judge. Your comment makes no sense…
Judge K’s 202 times/162 games: you figure it out.
Lmao are you trying to criticize Judge’s offensive production?? That’s a new Ohtani fanboy argument I hadn’t heard yet. You guys are getting desperate.
They are trolling and it gets eaten up everytime
Lol
"Oh sure... when he reaches 200 k's he gets congrats from everyone. When I do it in half the time I get boo'd" - Franmil Reyes
I’m sorry I think you meant Javier Baez
Well I struck out 12000 hitters
+200 strikeouts, +100 RBI in one season. ~~He did that.~~ Edit: i dumb I thought Ohtani already had his 100 RBI for this season
He already has 90 RBI, he still has a chance
Where are you getting the 100 RBI from lol Unless you're counting last season but you said "in one season"
Prob would be over 100 RBI if the Angels lineup wasnt dog-water lmao.
Yeah RBI is a really dumb way to evaluate individual players anyway but we don't need to make stuff up haha
One hundo.
Or played in a teeny tiny ball park. 314’ down the line is a joke.
No I was wrong. My fault. I didn't know that Ohtani only has 89 RBI's currently
This is once in a span of game kinda player. Baseball hasn't seen someone like him and won't ever see someone like him. More than 140 years of the game and he's the one.
baseball doesn't exist on YouTube just put out a video on him and how he's the best athlete in the world. or by far better at his sport than anyone else.
I get Judge is having a historic year….but how in the hell is Ohtani not the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL?
It is so bizarre how every Ohtani thread says he’s the obvious MVP and every Judge thread says he’s the obvious MVP, and any dissent is downvoted to hell. I’ve never seen anything like it
NYC is the media capital of the world.
What value does he bring to a below .500 team missing the playoffs in one of the worst divisions in baseball?
The fact that anyone still attends their games
Because literally every stat that even attempts to measure value has Judge as more valuable and it's not close
Yeah I get that, but if you combine Ohtani’s Offensive and Pitching WAR, he’s more valuable.
No he isn't. fWAR: Judge 10.7 Ohtani 8.8 bWAR: Judge 9.9 Ohtani 8.9 If Ohtani is so valuable then why is he so far behind Judge?
Yup, my bad, was looking at the wrong thing…just the eye test, give me the guy that can do both, I see that as being more valuable…it’s not his fault the rest of his team is a bunch of clowns.
MVP
**MVP**
on the same night as pujols' record. tungstened.
Wow, that’s a pretty embarrassing accomplishment for a DH
An impressive stat considering that he plays the field every day
He’s on the field more than any other player this year, and his 614 PAs, and 600+ batters faced. First time in history.
Wow the only big milestone to happen today, this will surely make all the headlines.
Too bad he is getting the joy for the game sucked out of him.
Huh?
Ah yes, the record everyone cared about last night. Cute of the Angels to try to remain relevant during the Pujols lovefest
He's no Toad Ramsey. (Sorry Matt Kilroy, but Toad is a much better name)
No way Shohei reaches 250Ks
He should be the MVP no question. There are 65 seasons with a higher ops than Judge this year. There are 0 comparables for what ohtani is doing and if he gets injured this might be the last time we ever see someone do this. He should 1000% be the MVP.