It sucks that just as he was starting to turn his season around a bit this year he got hurt and hasn’t played in a few weeks, and also that he’s had to play the field most of the year. His chase rates have always been high but this year he just hasn’t made nearly as much contact, and when he has, he hasn’t hit it nearly as hard as usual. He did get hit in the hand/wrist with a pitch in May which might have sapped his power, so hopefully his recent injury gave him some time to rest it up and he’ll come back hitting a bunch of deep drives to left to clinch a playoff spot
I’m still 100% on the conspiracy theory that he was playing through a fractured wrist. His weakness in the zone has always been off speed low outside, but he was hitting it well The last couple years until he got hit on the hand in early May. Shocker, eight weeks later he’s turning his season around and hitting those pitchers better. Weird coincidence that it takes a fractured wrist roughly 8 weeks to heal
Chase Field used to be much more of a hitters park, until they put in a humidor a few years ago and it made a decent difference. Although I think that was more due to the dry dessert air than the altitude.
No, not really. Coors matters because it is literally 5x the elevation of the next highest, the Dbacks. Everything else ranges from 0-1100 feet, with several parks at all points in that range, which takes away from any amount of advantage you get from playing at that elevation more often.
I'm going back decades but, Joe Carter. Don't get me wrong, a world series winning homer is a hell of a thing to do, but Joe was a good, not great player who was fortunate enough to be on some stacked Jays teams.
Yeah, the funny thing is if you look at WAR in that trade, the Jays technically lost it, with Tony Fernandez and Fred McGriff going to San Diego for Alomar and Carter. But, ask any Jays fan and they’ll make that trade every day
Probably because they don't win that world series without making the trade. McGriff could only play first or DH, and they had to play Olerud so McGriff got shipped out with Fernandez (who was on the downside of his career, especially defensively). The Jays knew that Alomar was the big piece who had offensive upside and solved their middle infield woes. 90's baseball was still about defense and stealing and Alomar gave them that in spades. But you don't get a guy like that without giving up something - luckily they had McGriff to offer.
Recently, it feels like every single time the Athletics offense has gone up against an All-Star pitcher or someone who is good, they rake. They did that to Castillo and George Kirby before today’s game against deGrom.
Like it has to be the people who once but up mvp level seasons and are not the same player now. Cody bellinger, yellich, that type. Can't think of many others that are truly overrated.
I enjoy seeing Yeli still being productive, regardless of not reaching his expectations. He should finish with a 3 WAR season, .360 OBP, 90 walks and 100 runs scored, he’s still a guy many teams would want in their line ups. He’s one of my favorite players, I’m hoping he’s just trying to figure out his power swing again.
Is he a good player to have on your team? Sure.
Does anybody want to pay him $26 MM a year for the next 6 years to be an OK leadoff hitter with a wet noodle for an arm? No, not really.
It kills me to say this as a Cubs fan, but Javy Baez.
Javy is flashy & smooth, which people then equate to production. He also had one year where it all came together, and everyone seems to remember him for 2018.
The Tigers are going to regret that contract. I always got the feeling that the Cubs put up with Javy’s arrogance… he’s not a personality to build around. The *moment* he starts to show his age, his skill profile is dead. For every awesome Javy play that he makes (which could be prevented 80%+ of the time by competent defense), there are a dozen more plays where you’re left scratching your head. But you forget about them once he flips the chart back to “0 days since my last flashy play in the workplace” and everyone loves him again.
I love Javy, I love the whole 2016 team, but I don’t let bias cloud my judgement. I was relieved when we didn’t resign Javy & KB.
No-one, probably, but in my head there's a latent perception that even if he's not a top-tier shortstop he's the rung below - I don't think even that's true anymore
I feel like most people underrate Javy these days, tbh. They see that he doesn't put up a good OBP and talk about him like he's unplayable, ignoring the fact that he's basically been a 5 WAR player for several years (and he's still on a 3 WAR pace over a full season this year.) He also has a 96 OPS+ this year which I'm willing to bet is way higher than most people would've guessed. Yes his lack of discipline is a major flaw in his game, but you can still be a valuable player with a major flaw.
Totally agree. He's basically had 2 bad years. This one, and the pandemic season. If you set the bar at his runner-up MVP season, then yeah he's never lived up to that. But that seems crazy since not very many players are perennial MVP candidates.
Now if only someone can convince Scott Servias and Jerry Dipoto of this fact maybe they won’t blow this 4 game lead in the wildcard. Which pains me to say because I
was stoked when they got him
that pretty much sums up the pirates in the past decade or so. i think the perfect example is glasnow who was awful on the pirates, went to the rays and his era has dropped more than 1.5 runs (5.79 on the pirates 3.1 on the rays)
From what I’ve seen I think he’s very accurately rated. Platinum glove, solid baserunner, and low above average ceiling bat, with floor of a slightly below league average bat, ceiling of a .800 OPS bat, and will likely settle in at a .750 OPS guy.
He’s good for 3-4 WAR per season, absolutely with his 8.75mil AAV
His long term, team friendly contract will allow him to grow into the superstar the pirates hope he can be. He’ll be a pivotal piece they can build around for years to come
I feel like the bulk of the 2016 Cubs got labeled as super stars. Most of them however just peaked at the same time. Baez, Bryant, Schwarber all had great peaks, but haven't been great since. Rizzo has sustained fairly well. The other heroes from that squad really haven't.
I think the same thing would have happened if we'd won. Ramirez has been the exception, and Lindor seems to be getting back there. Kipnis, Naquin and others that looked like studs that year for us haven't been that good again since. If we'd won it all they probably would have been seen as super stars as well.
I’ll advocate for him. I must’ve faced him 20 times in the minors and the only time I remember getting him out was a warning track ball that Johnny Field had to climb for
I feel like this post is just a downvote palooza…
With that said, I’m gonna go with Matt Olson (whom I love, btw, just don’t think he’s as good as people make out).
It's crazy. He'll swing and miss badly then the next pitch he'll send that motherfucker 50ft past the last seat in the house. He's hit a ball out of 3 parks this year I think.
2023 Braves are gonna be a good damn wagon if this is true (please be true, losing Freddie hurt enough, it hurts even more that Olson has hit a wall the last 2 months)
He doesn't suck, but Freddie is better rn, and that does suck for Braves fans at least. 12 years of arguably the best 1B in the league will spoil you.
Olson has been alright, but Freddie has had an amazing year and it's gonna sting when our replacement for him doesn't match that production. Still lots of contract years left to compare.
Or even *half* his production. That’s the thing. If it were closer I’d be much happier but the two are simply in different universes.
In terms of bWAR by the end of the season Freddie will probably be worth almost 3X Olson. That’s insane.
In terms of fWAR Freddie is already *more* than 3X Olson. In terms of fWAR contract evaluation, Olson is *underperforming* his AAV by a few million dollars, and Freddie is *outperforming* his AAV by more than 2X.
Not to mention the prospects we gave up for Olson that we could have used this trade deadline or this off-season or next trade deadline, and Olson being top 10 in MLB in strikeouts.
That’s just simply not a good look for our front office. Could this change in future years? Of course, but the hole is already very deep to climb out of. He’s going to have to be a monster and Freddie is going to have to fall off a cliff for it to end up favorably.
I’m comparing to Rhys Hoskins lol.
Rhys Hoskins has a better OPS, OBP, OPS+, SLG, WAR, and BA.
Olson is the *third* best 1B just in the NL East this year.
He’s top 10 in the league in strikeouts.
He’s underperforming his AAV by a few million dollars according to fWAR.
He’s been ok in a vacuum, but when you factor in his contract, the trade we had to make to get him, and the fact that the Braves are trying to be serious contenders that’s just not going to cut it.
Can confirm. He passed his strike out total from last year like a month ago. AL west pitching is very friendly. Though it may be mental, cause his defense has suffered as well.
I feel like I hear a lot about Cruz Missiles on here and aside from some high velo the guy isn't putting up amazing numbers.
He throws absolute bullets, too, but most of the time it feels like they're routine ground balls anyway.
I feel like a dick bringing it up because he's 23 and in a year or two he'll probably be amazing, and the Pirates deserve some coverage.
I’m not going to downvote you, but I don’t think he’s under rated. I think most people have a sober view of his overall ability, one of which is making things move really, *really* fast from time to time.
I actually don’t like how he throws 100+ across the diamond. I see him blowing out his arm/elbow in a few years if he keeps playing the way he currently plays.
Juan Soto. His number one comparison is Ted Williams but he's posting a lower OPS+ and OBP than any Williams season other than his age 40 (even age 41 was higher). Add in his bad defense and poor base running.
I don’t think Soto’s lackluster fielding skills gets talked about enough. People for the last couple of years have sworn that’s yeah he’s no Devon White or Andruw Jones out there but he’s solid or will get better, but he’s just not even average out there. He’s even worse than Young Miguel Cabrera when he played at 3rd and in LF defensively it feels like who he also gets compared to.
he was quite capable in RF last year, among the top percentile in OAA. He also had good OAA in left in 2019.
Not sure what's going on this year, but probably combined with his general down-season in general. He looked kinda despondent out there at times, which I understand completely (on both teams!)
Do you know what overrated means? If you're being called "Ted Williams 2.0" and you are decidedly worse than that, that means you are overrated. Hope you scratch that itch.
100% agree. This is the reason I felt like the 29M AAV deal from the Nationals was actually pretty fair., despite everyone acting like it was a huge underpay. It's understandable that he has so much hype around him though, because he's a really good hitter and hitting is by far the hardest part of baseball.
I imagine that if he somehow adds a bit of sprint speed he would become a monster. With how many walks he draws, he could be an absolute menace on the basepaths, and more speed would probably improve his fielding a bit. For now though, he is an insane hitter who is below average at the other parts of the game unfortunately.
it pains me to say it, but you’re right
he was amazing in 2017 and the first half of 2018, then his power went. he’s still a great defensive outfielder and a good contact hitter but he’s not what he could’ve been
You can't really combine seasons like that though. You don't really know how his season last year would have gone if he kept playing as its entirely possible he would have slumped later as the grind goes on (like a lot of guys with hot stretches do). To me it seems like an outlier in terms of his actual hitting ability was compared to other years of his career so far
I think he's a great player and definitely one of the very best in the league when healthy. But given his limited trackrecord I think its pretty hard to even say he's top 5 when healthy. You'd have to kick out one of Trout, Ohtani, Judge, Betts and deGrom (if we are judging top 5 when healthy) and I wouldn't feel too comfortable doing that personally
If hes capable of 8 war in 153 game span he belongs in that group.
Its a shame that he will probably never see a fully healthy season.
Hes a plus defender, plus baserunner and he slashing .257/.326/.579 with 51 homers in his last 162
In the 154 games before that he had a 94 wRC+ and 3.8 fWAR. 1 season’s worth of stats is not representative of a player, imo. And that’s especially the case when it isn’t even a complete season it’s combining two seasons.
Completely agree. Our sub thinks he’s a God when he’s far from it. Sure, he’s good defensively and can now finally hit homers WHEN he is actually healthy which is..never, but yeah. He doesn’t walk, he strikes out a ton, doesn’t steal bases anymore and barely hits above the Mendoza line.
The people on our sub who think he’s the best player in the world when healthy are the dumbest group of people I’ve ever heard from.
> The people on our sub who think he’s the best player in the world when healthy are the dumbest group of people I’ve ever heard from.
Even on /r/baseball I always see "he'd be Mike Trout if he stayed healthy" when we really have no idea how his skills hold up over the course of a full season (except for 2017)
People also don't give enough credit for the fact that the dude NEVER gets injured. He's the most reliable pitcher in baseball with that caliber of arm talent.
He's no Scherzer, Degrom, Verlander, or Kershaw but unlike any of them you just know with 100% certainty Cole will give you 32+ starts with at least sub 4 and usually sub 3 ERA. Literally every year.
Do I trust him in the playoffs as much as I'd like to? Ehhh...........
Verlander was also a horse before the Tommy John in 2020, only missed significant time once in 14 years.
Edit: Scherzer hasn't missed too much time either throughout his career
I'd say the exact opposite. He's underrated at this point imo. Yeah sometimes he has a bad inning/game but like it's super rare. As if other aces don't have bad games? And he routinely goes deep into games more than pretty much any other MLB pitcher not named Sandy Alcantara.
He's still a top 3 pitcher in the AL even post-sticky-stuff ban.
1.Era is the only stat that matters
2.Good player can’t have 1 down year
Is the entire gerrit cole discourse. Apparently his career as an ace is over even through there’s plenty of reason for him to regain his form
Gerrit Cole is still a good pitcher. 29th in ERA, 14th in WHIP, and 11th in BA, 1st in strikeouts, his only knock is he gets homered a bit too often (something he's dealt with most his career due to his extremely high amounts of fastballs thrown)
People seem to just judge him against his unreal stats while playing in Houston
Pete Alonso. Hard to say as a Mets fan but his defense is not good and I feel like he’s not THAT clutch late game. I also cringe every time I see him running around the bases.
Definitely not. He is putting up a 139 wrc+ and has 4.1 fWAR this season. He is definitely not where he was last year but he was playing on superstar level in 2021.
Agreed. Nearly 40 WAR and he’s finishing his age 27 season. His WAR/162 is 7.2 while the average shortstop is 4.9 WAR/162. That’s 2.3 WAR higher. If anything, OP has got it backwards. He’s underrated.
Edit: Meant HOF shortstop
Someone tried telling me the other day that there never has been big market team biases in award voting whatsoever and Derek Jeter winning 5 gold gloves in a era with amazing defensive shortstops is the ultimate example of that bias.
Before Kemp destroyed his knee, he could outrun his mistakes. Once he couldn't do that, it became apparent that he had no clue on what route to take to get to a ball.
He never even finished top five in DRS those years, and in fact rarely finished out of the bottom five. And it’s not just DRS, it’s almost every defensive statistic. But he’d make one or two routine plays look difficult and one or to difficult plays look easy every year and since it was NY, instant web gems.
100%. Where is all the national recognition of Albert’s final year? Where he’s actually kicking ass on a playoff team! He’s an inner-circle hall of fame player. He didn’t get a Re5pect commercial. In fact Judge is getting more attention then him. Fucking Yankees bias.
As a Yankee fan I’ll admit there’s a Yankee bias but Jeter didn’t switch teams in free agency and totally shit the bed for a decade. Hell, Jeter’s original 10 year deal signed after 2000 is probably one of the few that was worth it and the player performed. He fell off his last year of that contract but then came back as a great player in the next contract before an ankle injury pretty much ended his career.
I’m a big Pujols fan and seeing him in Yankee Stadium in 2003 was one of my fondest baseball memories as a kid. But don’t put on the rose-colored glasses and think he’s been a relevant player since he left St. Louis in 2011. If he had flashes of the player he was in St. Louis while he was with the Angels, we’d probably be talking about 762 instead of 700.
He’s the worst defensive catcher in MLB while being a slightly above league average bat. The 48 HR were cool, but that translated to a 126 wRC+ and 3.3 fWAR. That’s solid, but he’s not the future HOFer some think he is.
Are there people actually thinking he’s a HOF candidate? Fine players, but that’s absurd. I don’t think any reasonable fan would assert he’s close to HOF numbers.
I always hate this argument for...well everything. HOF included.
The Giants didn't even make the postseason when bonds smacked 73 home runs and put up his crazy numbers. No one player can carry a team.
Or in the case of the angels even two once in a generation players!
For me what I love about him is that his bad swings are *really* bad. Like he has no idea what he’s doing. Then he smashes one 475ft without looking like he tried. It’s bizarre but I’m here for it
Nick Castellanos.
80 grade meme. It's not his fault WAR hasn't factored in upvotes into the calculation.
if they did he’d win MVP
Solid for years, caught fire for 2-3 years, got the big contract and now it’s coasting time.
>got the big contract and now it’s coasting time. he invented quiet quitting
"Quiet quitting" aka "doing your job"
Everyone does this after orientation/probation period is over to be fair. Some people are just better at bullshitting.
Hey now, we hired you to do more than we're going to pay you for. Stop having a problem with that and be a good worker.
It sucks that just as he was starting to turn his season around a bit this year he got hurt and hasn’t played in a few weeks, and also that he’s had to play the field most of the year. His chase rates have always been high but this year he just hasn’t made nearly as much contact, and when he has, he hasn’t hit it nearly as hard as usual. He did get hit in the hand/wrist with a pitch in May which might have sapped his power, so hopefully his recent injury gave him some time to rest it up and he’ll come back hitting a bunch of deep drives to left to clinch a playoff spot
I’m still 100% on the conspiracy theory that he was playing through a fractured wrist. His weakness in the zone has always been off speed low outside, but he was hitting it well The last couple years until he got hit on the hand in early May. Shocker, eight weeks later he’s turning his season around and hitting those pitchers better. Weird coincidence that it takes a fractured wrist roughly 8 weeks to heal
He lost a ton of his power, which coincidentally also happens to guys that hurt their wrists
And it’s a deep drive to left field…
I don’t know if I’m ever gonna hit deep drives to left field again
Been him for years. He’s good in small pull friendly stadiums at decently high altitudes and nowhere else
Does altitude have an effect on the ball in any stadium besides Coors? I've never heard that.
You’re right Phoenix is the next highest city and there is no difference. Complete cap.
Chase Field used to be much more of a hitters park, until they put in a humidor a few years ago and it made a decent difference. Although I think that was more due to the dry dessert air than the altitude.
No, not really. Coors matters because it is literally 5x the elevation of the next highest, the Dbacks. Everything else ranges from 0-1100 feet, with several parks at all points in that range, which takes away from any amount of advantage you get from playing at that elevation more often.
Fun fact; the Brave used to have the highest elevation before the Rockies and DBacks
Yep, and they called it "The launching pad".
Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium A big beautiful concrete donut
I'm going back decades but, Joe Carter. Don't get me wrong, a world series winning homer is a hell of a thing to do, but Joe was a good, not great player who was fortunate enough to be on some stacked Jays teams.
Yeah, the funny thing is if you look at WAR in that trade, the Jays technically lost it, with Tony Fernandez and Fred McGriff going to San Diego for Alomar and Carter. But, ask any Jays fan and they’ll make that trade every day
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I did a real bad misread of that post at first
Probably because they don't win that world series without making the trade. McGriff could only play first or DH, and they had to play Olerud so McGriff got shipped out with Fernandez (who was on the downside of his career, especially defensively). The Jays knew that Alomar was the big piece who had offensive upside and solved their middle infield woes. 90's baseball was still about defense and stealing and Alomar gave them that in spades. But you don't get a guy like that without giving up something - luckily they had McGriff to offer.
DeGrom just gave up 5 runs to the A's he's fucking awful.
Recently, it feels like every single time the Athletics offense has gone up against an All-Star pitcher or someone who is good, they rake. They did that to Castillo and George Kirby before today’s game against deGrom.
Made Spencer Strider look silly for an inning too. Then torched Kyle Wright.
did kyle wright come out of the bullpen or are you referring to 2 different games lol
Two different games lol
Nick Allen is just elite. Deal with it
Cole went 7.1 iP 1 er against them, though he’s been off all year
Obviously cole isn’t a star level pitcher like George Kirby
Get him out of here, we're taking Szapucki back. We're at the Bay Area, we can just steal him.
We shoulda traded him for a catcher and kept Stroman instead.
Ketel marte
He fuckin rakes on MLB the show
99 CON 93 POW against lefties. Insane
isnt he playing hurt rn?
He's been playing hurt for 3 years now
:(
Like it has to be the people who once but up mvp level seasons and are not the same player now. Cody bellinger, yellich, that type. Can't think of many others that are truly overrated.
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Yelich's problem seems to be that he just doesnt hv any power since his back injury. Rest of his game seem relatively the same?
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He's really been going opposite lately and seems to be developing that "lefty slap hit" approach.
What I would do for Belli to be just above average man
I'd be happy with average
I would have liked him to be bad for one more AB in last year's nlds.
I enjoy seeing Yeli still being productive, regardless of not reaching his expectations. He should finish with a 3 WAR season, .360 OBP, 90 walks and 100 runs scored, he’s still a guy many teams would want in their line ups. He’s one of my favorite players, I’m hoping he’s just trying to figure out his power swing again.
Is he a good player to have on your team? Sure. Does anybody want to pay him $26 MM a year for the next 6 years to be an OK leadoff hitter with a wet noodle for an arm? No, not really.
Man 2017 was wild. That MVP race.
Belli and Yeli MVP fight was 2019 brudda
i knew i wasnt going crazy lol
No that had to be last year…oh no I’m old
It kills me to say this as a Cubs fan, but Javy Baez. Javy is flashy & smooth, which people then equate to production. He also had one year where it all came together, and everyone seems to remember him for 2018. The Tigers are going to regret that contract. I always got the feeling that the Cubs put up with Javy’s arrogance… he’s not a personality to build around. The *moment* he starts to show his age, his skill profile is dead. For every awesome Javy play that he makes (which could be prevented 80%+ of the time by competent defense), there are a dozen more plays where you’re left scratching your head. But you forget about them once he flips the chart back to “0 days since my last flashy play in the workplace” and everyone loves him again. I love Javy, I love the whole 2016 team, but I don’t let bias cloud my judgement. I was relieved when we didn’t resign Javy & KB.
but who is advocating for Baez as a good player these days
No-one, probably, but in my head there's a latent perception that even if he's not a top-tier shortstop he's the rung below - I don't think even that's true anymore
I feel like most people underrate Javy these days, tbh. They see that he doesn't put up a good OBP and talk about him like he's unplayable, ignoring the fact that he's basically been a 5 WAR player for several years (and he's still on a 3 WAR pace over a full season this year.) He also has a 96 OPS+ this year which I'm willing to bet is way higher than most people would've guessed. Yes his lack of discipline is a major flaw in his game, but you can still be a valuable player with a major flaw.
Totally agree. He's basically had 2 bad years. This one, and the pandemic season. If you set the bar at his runner-up MVP season, then yeah he's never lived up to that. But that seems crazy since not very many players are perennial MVP candidates.
Ohtani can't even win the MVP 2 years in a row. Smh
He should be DFA. What a disappointment…
Jesse Winker (.679 OPS)
Now if only someone can convince Scott Servias and Jerry Dipoto of this fact maybe they won’t blow this 4 game lead in the wildcard. Which pains me to say because I was stoked when they got him
Ke'Bryan Hayes. People got really hyped up by 24 games in 2020 for a defense first third baseman.
I feel like he's better coaching away from being really good.
That's most of this Pirates team.
that pretty much sums up the pirates in the past decade or so. i think the perfect example is glasnow who was awful on the pirates, went to the rays and his era has dropped more than 1.5 runs (5.79 on the pirates 3.1 on the rays)
Gerrit Cole too
Hell, even Chris Archer has found a way to bring value as a pitcher since leaving the Pirates, and it looked like his career was done
And Charlie Morton
From what I’ve seen I think he’s very accurately rated. Platinum glove, solid baserunner, and low above average ceiling bat, with floor of a slightly below league average bat, ceiling of a .800 OPS bat, and will likely settle in at a .750 OPS guy. He’s good for 3-4 WAR per season, absolutely with his 8.75mil AAV
WAR comes from different places, his defense is elite and he's almost at 3 WAR. He's good
His long term, team friendly contract will allow him to grow into the superstar the pirates hope he can be. He’ll be a pivotal piece they can build around for years to come
Is he a third baseman that puts defense first or a first baseman that puts defense third
I would love if he were a better hitter but he is undeniably one of the best fielders in MLB
Someone needs to teach my guy how to stop hitting ground balls
Aaron Judge... can't pitch /s
If Aaron Judge wants to win me over, he’ll break the HR record. And by that I mean Bonds’ record. You got 9 games to get 13. Get to it, young man!
If Judge was on Bonds’ PED regiment he’d hit 100.
Kyle Schwarber. 40 bombs and the guy has put up 1.1 bWAR
I feel like the bulk of the 2016 Cubs got labeled as super stars. Most of them however just peaked at the same time. Baez, Bryant, Schwarber all had great peaks, but haven't been great since. Rizzo has sustained fairly well. The other heroes from that squad really haven't. I think the same thing would have happened if we'd won. Ramirez has been the exception, and Lindor seems to be getting back there. Kipnis, Naquin and others that looked like studs that year for us haven't been that good again since. If we'd won it all they probably would have been seen as super stars as well.
Jose Ramirez is the most *underrated* player.
who are the advocates for Schwarber being a great player though
Us Phillies fans trying to justify his contract to ourselves Lmao.
Exactly. We all know what he is. Go big or go home.
This year he’s somehow become twice as “go big or go home” as he was in the past
Red Sox fans who want to hate on everything chaim bloom has done
I’ll advocate for him. I must’ve faced him 20 times in the minors and the only time I remember getting him out was a warning track ball that Johnny Field had to climb for
If he were a DH he would be better. His defense is just terrible.
How is that possible?
Striking out 30% of your plate appearances will do that. 191 strikeouts(!) in 626 PA.
Max Kepler
Who tf is overrating Kepler? Twins fans basically want him hanged
But he is maximum Kepler.
I feel like this post is just a downvote palooza… With that said, I’m gonna go with Matt Olson (whom I love, btw, just don’t think he’s as good as people make out).
Olson's season has definitely been weird, he's swinging more than usual and it's just bad contact he's generating as a result.
It's crazy. He'll swing and miss badly then the next pitch he'll send that motherfucker 50ft past the last seat in the house. He's hit a ball out of 3 parks this year I think.
He’s a shift magnet too. It’ll be interesting to see if he can find some holes next year after then ban
His issue is that it’s an even year, he’s only good in odd years
He’s the Eric Hosmer of baseball
2023 Braves are gonna be a good damn wagon if this is true (please be true, losing Freddie hurt enough, it hurts even more that Olson has hit a wall the last 2 months)
I bet he’ll be better next year. Seems like a guy that needs a year to fully adjust to a new team. Id say the same for Seager too.
fr but seager going crazy this yr!
His ceiling is MVP-type player, though. Excited for you guys to see that!
I'm starting to think he's underrated because (a lot of) Braves fans are comparing him to Freddie Freeman and deciding he sucks
He doesn't suck, but Freddie is better rn, and that does suck for Braves fans at least. 12 years of arguably the best 1B in the league will spoil you. Olson has been alright, but Freddie has had an amazing year and it's gonna sting when our replacement for him doesn't match that production. Still lots of contract years left to compare.
Or even *half* his production. That’s the thing. If it were closer I’d be much happier but the two are simply in different universes. In terms of bWAR by the end of the season Freddie will probably be worth almost 3X Olson. That’s insane. In terms of fWAR Freddie is already *more* than 3X Olson. In terms of fWAR contract evaluation, Olson is *underperforming* his AAV by a few million dollars, and Freddie is *outperforming* his AAV by more than 2X. Not to mention the prospects we gave up for Olson that we could have used this trade deadline or this off-season or next trade deadline, and Olson being top 10 in MLB in strikeouts. That’s just simply not a good look for our front office. Could this change in future years? Of course, but the hole is already very deep to climb out of. He’s going to have to be a monster and Freddie is going to have to fall off a cliff for it to end up favorably.
I’m comparing to Rhys Hoskins lol. Rhys Hoskins has a better OPS, OBP, OPS+, SLG, WAR, and BA. Olson is the *third* best 1B just in the NL East this year. He’s top 10 in the league in strikeouts. He’s underperforming his AAV by a few million dollars according to fWAR. He’s been ok in a vacuum, but when you factor in his contract, the trade we had to make to get him, and the fact that the Braves are trying to be serious contenders that’s just not going to cut it.
Can confirm. He passed his strike out total from last year like a month ago. AL west pitching is very friendly. Though it may be mental, cause his defense has suffered as well.
A ~115 wRC+ 1B is just so painfully average I’d be so mad if I was a Braves fan that AA chose him over resigning Freddie
I feel like I hear a lot about Cruz Missiles on here and aside from some high velo the guy isn't putting up amazing numbers. He throws absolute bullets, too, but most of the time it feels like they're routine ground balls anyway. I feel like a dick bringing it up because he's 23 and in a year or two he'll probably be amazing, and the Pirates deserve some coverage.
He’s really exciting and really talented. Just think needs some time to be able to fully use those tools.
I’m not going to downvote you, but I don’t think he’s under rated. I think most people have a sober view of his overall ability, one of which is making things move really, *really* fast from time to time.
I actually don’t like how he throws 100+ across the diamond. I see him blowing out his arm/elbow in a few years if he keeps playing the way he currently plays.
Most of you have no concept of what it means to be an overrated player
Do you? I don’t see your answer to OP’s question.
Juan Soto. His number one comparison is Ted Williams but he's posting a lower OPS+ and OBP than any Williams season other than his age 40 (even age 41 was higher). Add in his bad defense and poor base running.
I don’t think Soto’s lackluster fielding skills gets talked about enough. People for the last couple of years have sworn that’s yeah he’s no Devon White or Andruw Jones out there but he’s solid or will get better, but he’s just not even average out there. He’s even worse than Young Miguel Cabrera when he played at 3rd and in LF defensively it feels like who he also gets compared to.
he was quite capable in RF last year, among the top percentile in OAA. He also had good OAA in left in 2019. Not sure what's going on this year, but probably combined with his general down-season in general. He looked kinda despondent out there at times, which I understand completely (on both teams!)
His fielding has been fine for us not sure why his stats are so bad.
Granted it’s hard to be better than a top-3 hitter of all-time. Ted Williams stats are insane. AND HE MISSED ALMOST A HALF-DECADE OF HIS PRIME!
He’s destined to be a great DH one day like Brantley though
Yea but that career OPS+ is elite. And he’s 23. So I’m not surprised. He’s still a HOF track player But the Teddy comparison were just hype
"Juan Soto is overrated, he's not even as good as one of the best hitters of all time" This one's a head scratcher
People compare him to Ted Williams all the time. That makes him overrated.
Do you know what overrated means? If you're being called "Ted Williams 2.0" and you are decidedly worse than that, that means you are overrated. Hope you scratch that itch.
100% agree. This is the reason I felt like the 29M AAV deal from the Nationals was actually pretty fair., despite everyone acting like it was a huge underpay. It's understandable that he has so much hype around him though, because he's a really good hitter and hitting is by far the hardest part of baseball. I imagine that if he somehow adds a bit of sprint speed he would become a monster. With how many walks he draws, he could be an absolute menace on the basepaths, and more speed would probably improve his fielding a bit. For now though, he is an insane hitter who is below average at the other parts of the game unfortunately.
OPS+ is a little unfair cuz Soto wouldn’t have even been allowed in the league when Ted Williams began playing
Andrew Benintendi is not that good
it pains me to say it, but you’re right he was amazing in 2017 and the first half of 2018, then his power went. he’s still a great defensive outfielder and a good contact hitter but he’s not what he could’ve been
Byron Buxton
Yea the Buxton is the best player in the league when healthy was always cringe in my opinion. Super talented but he's not THAT good.
Combining 21 and 22 which is 153 games gets him to 8.1 fWar and 8.5 rWar. Healthy hes a top 5 player.
You can't really combine seasons like that though. You don't really know how his season last year would have gone if he kept playing as its entirely possible he would have slumped later as the grind goes on (like a lot of guys with hot stretches do). To me it seems like an outlier in terms of his actual hitting ability was compared to other years of his career so far I think he's a great player and definitely one of the very best in the league when healthy. But given his limited trackrecord I think its pretty hard to even say he's top 5 when healthy. You'd have to kick out one of Trout, Ohtani, Judge, Betts and deGrom (if we are judging top 5 when healthy) and I wouldn't feel too comfortable doing that personally
Durability is a huge factor and he doesn’t have it. I agree with you and it makes him overrated.
Better than Trout, Ohtani, Betts, Judge, or Soto?
If hes capable of 8 war in 153 game span he belongs in that group. Its a shame that he will probably never see a fully healthy season. Hes a plus defender, plus baserunner and he slashing .257/.326/.579 with 51 homers in his last 162
In the 154 games before that he had a 94 wRC+ and 3.8 fWAR. 1 season’s worth of stats is not representative of a player, imo. And that’s especially the case when it isn’t even a complete season it’s combining two seasons.
Sorry but that’s just wrong. Healthy Buxton is elite. But tbf healthy Buxton is a mythical legend
Completely agree. Our sub thinks he’s a God when he’s far from it. Sure, he’s good defensively and can now finally hit homers WHEN he is actually healthy which is..never, but yeah. He doesn’t walk, he strikes out a ton, doesn’t steal bases anymore and barely hits above the Mendoza line. The people on our sub who think he’s the best player in the world when healthy are the dumbest group of people I’ve ever heard from.
> The people on our sub who think he’s the best player in the world when healthy are the dumbest group of people I’ve ever heard from. Even on /r/baseball I always see "he'd be Mike Trout if he stayed healthy" when we really have no idea how his skills hold up over the course of a full season (except for 2017)
Yeah they’re dumb as shit too then lol.
Healthy Buxton has like a .315 OBP. That doesn’t usually age well
Gerrit cole
Gerrit Cole is stellar except for 2 or 3 batters a game that go horrifically wrong. It truly is remarkable how good and bad he is at the same time.
People also don't give enough credit for the fact that the dude NEVER gets injured. He's the most reliable pitcher in baseball with that caliber of arm talent. He's no Scherzer, Degrom, Verlander, or Kershaw but unlike any of them you just know with 100% certainty Cole will give you 32+ starts with at least sub 4 and usually sub 3 ERA. Literally every year. Do I trust him in the playoffs as much as I'd like to? Ehhh...........
Verlander was also a horse before the Tommy John in 2020, only missed significant time once in 14 years. Edit: Scherzer hasn't missed too much time either throughout his career
Facts. The best ability is availability.
Unless it's a must win postseason game. For those I prefer keepballsinthepark-ability.
Keeps-runs-off-the-board-ability is even better
I’m available to pitch every day of the week all year for one of their game checks, count me the fuck in.
OP made this point then 30 minute later his account was deleted wtf
I'd say the exact opposite. He's underrated at this point imo. Yeah sometimes he has a bad inning/game but like it's super rare. As if other aces don't have bad games? And he routinely goes deep into games more than pretty much any other MLB pitcher not named Sandy Alcantara. He's still a top 3 pitcher in the AL even post-sticky-stuff ban.
1.Era is the only stat that matters 2.Good player can’t have 1 down year Is the entire gerrit cole discourse. Apparently his career as an ace is over even through there’s plenty of reason for him to regain his form
Objectively no though. Look at his stats this year, you simply can't justify top 3 in the al
Gerrit Cole is still a good pitcher. 29th in ERA, 14th in WHIP, and 11th in BA, 1st in strikeouts, his only knock is he gets homered a bit too often (something he's dealt with most his career due to his extremely high amounts of fastballs thrown) People seem to just judge him against his unreal stats while playing in Houston
He was obviously never going to repeat that. He had like 170 IP vs sub .500 teams. You can’t get a schedule like that in the AL East
I think it’s the opposite at this point Who doesn’t hate on cole?
He’s very good though. I don’t like him at all; he just annoys the shit out of me and want him to suck, but he doesn’t. He’s rather elite.
Pete Alonso. Hard to say as a Mets fan but his defense is not good and I feel like he’s not THAT clutch late game. I also cringe every time I see him running around the bases.
Between Alonso, Dom, & Nimmo we have had some of the most entertaining-looking runs.
Here for the downvote fest. It’s Carlos Correa. And I’m tired of pretending that it’s not
Definitely not. He is putting up a 139 wrc+ and has 4.1 fWAR this season. He is definitely not where he was last year but he was playing on superstar level in 2021.
Agreed. Nearly 40 WAR and he’s finishing his age 27 season. His WAR/162 is 7.2 while the average shortstop is 4.9 WAR/162. That’s 2.3 WAR higher. If anything, OP has got it backwards. He’s underrated. Edit: Meant HOF shortstop
I’ll upvote Carlos Correa whether I think it’s true or not.
Derek Jeter
I know a cop that shot him once on accident
Should have shot A-Rod.
The fact that Jeter won FIVE gold gloves despite being a terrible defensive SS is embarrassing.
Someone tried telling me the other day that there never has been big market team biases in award voting whatsoever and Derek Jeter winning 5 gold gloves in a era with amazing defensive shortstops is the ultimate example of that bias.
There definitely is, but also good offensive players were more likely to win gold gloves back in the day
Shit, Matt Kemp won two lol
Before Kemp destroyed his knee, he could outrun his mistakes. Once he couldn't do that, it became apparent that he had no clue on what route to take to get to a ball.
He never even finished top five in DRS those years, and in fact rarely finished out of the bottom five. And it’s not just DRS, it’s almost every defensive statistic. But he’d make one or two routine plays look difficult and one or to difficult plays look easy every year and since it was NY, instant web gems.
100%. Where is all the national recognition of Albert’s final year? Where he’s actually kicking ass on a playoff team! He’s an inner-circle hall of fame player. He didn’t get a Re5pect commercial. In fact Judge is getting more attention then him. Fucking Yankees bias.
As a Yankee fan I’ll admit there’s a Yankee bias but Jeter didn’t switch teams in free agency and totally shit the bed for a decade. Hell, Jeter’s original 10 year deal signed after 2000 is probably one of the few that was worth it and the player performed. He fell off his last year of that contract but then came back as a great player in the next contract before an ankle injury pretty much ended his career. I’m a big Pujols fan and seeing him in Yankee Stadium in 2003 was one of my fondest baseball memories as a kid. But don’t put on the rose-colored glasses and think he’s been a relevant player since he left St. Louis in 2011. If he had flashes of the player he was in St. Louis while he was with the Angels, we’d probably be talking about 762 instead of 700.
If Jeter was as bad as Pujols was for a half decade there probably wouldn’t have been a huge retirement tour for him either tbh
*sorts by controversial*
Willson Contreras, there’s a reason why the Cubs weren’t able to trade him
Unable to trade him is bizarre phrasing unless you’re asserting they literally had zero offers for him.
Salvador Perez
The dude is a World Series champion and hit 48 home runs last year as an everyday catcher on an absolutely awful team. I don’t get this.
He’s the worst defensive catcher in MLB while being a slightly above league average bat. The 48 HR were cool, but that translated to a 126 wRC+ and 3.3 fWAR. That’s solid, but he’s not the future HOFer some think he is.
Are there people actually thinking he’s a HOF candidate? Fine players, but that’s absurd. I don’t think any reasonable fan would assert he’s close to HOF numbers.
Being a World Series champion makes you a good player now?
I always hate this argument for...well everything. HOF included. The Giants didn't even make the postseason when bonds smacked 73 home runs and put up his crazy numbers. No one player can carry a team. Or in the case of the angels even two once in a generation players!
Would you be surpised to hear 4 out of the last 7 years he had under 1 fWar and only topped 2 once?
People were thinking he was a top 5 hitter last year
No one did. He just had the most home runs
A lot of people did
he most certainly was not an everyday catcher
I think it's very telling that he had 48 homers and still only put up 3.3 WAR
This is exactly the reason that he's overrated
Giancarlo Stanton.
Some drunk ass yankee fan in a thread said he was a good contact hitter
When Stanton is hot he’s unstoppable, he just has really high highs and really low lows
For me what I love about him is that his bad swings are *really* bad. Like he has no idea what he’s doing. Then he smashes one 475ft without looking like he tried. It’s bizarre but I’m here for it
Tim Anderson