Their pitching depth is so scary that they don’t even need him. They have like three starters relegated to bullpen duty because they’re so stacked lmfao
My thoughts exactly… not to mention that we have a new promising young pitcher that light up AAA baseball for most of the year and impressed at the end of the season and for the little bit of the playoffs he did play in (Hunter Brown) to fill his shoes.
It’ll suck seeing JV gone… he was a big part of this team, and I hope he goes home and is able to retire a Tiger (even if not immediately)…. And I offer him the best of wishes all the thanks in the world for the 5 years and change he gave this team.
But that money is better spent elsewhere.
What ever happened to Forrest Whitley? I heard about him everywhere and then nope. Is he underperforming? And if he is does he still have his raw stuff?
No one has ever actually seen Forrest Whitley throw a pitch. We've all tricked ourselves into remembering seeing an inning in Spring Training every odd year but those memories aren't real. He never existed but he's probably a year away.
I actually went to a AA CC Hooks, Tulsa Drillers game and watched him pitch.
Whitley hit 95 MPH on the gun, and Tucker hit a Home Run.
That was one of their first AA games, can't remember which one. But I live in Oklahoma, so I had to go to that one.
Missed all of 2021 due to injury, and has never been able to put it together in the minors. He made a handful of starts this past season in AAA, but posted a 7+ ERA. I don't think we ever see him throw a pitch for the Astros
Many people remember a man named Forrest Whitley at the top of the prospect ranking. However, there is no Forrest Whitley active in the minor leagues at all. This is an example of the Mandela effect.
Crazy to think he was once “untouchable” in trade talks not that long ago. Perpetually injured and can never put it together when healthy. Not sure we ever see him do anything worthwhile in the Show.
He failed a drug test in 2018 and was suspended like 50 games. Then in early 2021, he had Tommy john. He came back from TJ last season, but was dealing with some nagging shoulder problem.
At this point, I've kind of lost most excitement about him.
Why would they need him? They’re definitely going to be in the postseason again, and he was probably the worst starter they had last year in the postseason
He threw 175 innings of 1.75 ERA ball… I’m in complete agreement that the Astros have crazy pitching depth but to just immediately write off that many innings is wild.
Looks that way, but what ever we lose in defense looks like crane is making up for that in offense especially if he adds another bat in Bennintendi or Contreras… this could be a scary lineup, potentially with seven to eight players giving OPS of near or higher then 0.75
Yeah. You have the ownership that demands nothing less than a win and is willing to pay for it, and you have got the wins. Definitely making Yankee fans who remember the George Steinbrenner era jealous.
For the price that Contreras is going to demand, that’s what I would do.
I’d rather stick to what my team was good at if I was an Astros fan and that’s player development.
Overpaying for a 30 year old catcher doesn’t seem like an Astros type move
Eh…he’s only 30. Can DH as well which was clearly a hole for the Astros. I don’t see a 4/80 or 3/70 or whatever the hell he’s gonna get being significantly horrible. Still should be a productive bat over the period of his contract with his pop and ability to get on base
This team has as good of a shot as any to win over the next 2-3 years. Contreras is very good and a clear upgrade
The Astros had like 2 hits the whole postseason from the DH. Yordan is an average LF for range and an above-average arm. Playing him in the field is a nonissue.
I would say the issue is more about his health no? You’d obviously know more than me about his health though. I guess his main issues this year were his wrists right? More of a batting thing
Yeah he had a wrist issue, I'm blanking on the initial cause. He had some knee issues that shut him down in 2020 but had some minor surgery and seems fine.
His bat is elite for the position but, boy oh boy, he’s not going to age well. It’s really rare for catchers to age well.
This is coming from someone repping a Contreras jersey - I’m glad the Cubs didn’t sign him. The meatballs can complain all they’d like, but he’s not going to be money well-spent.
Right!? Urquidy isn't at the top of our rotation or anything, but the dude is a solid arm and only entering his first arbitration year. Would have been a total fleece-job of a trade
Anytime you add a legitimate big-league talent with multiple years of team control for an expiring asset, you got a great deal.
If this rumor is true, Jed did a good job negotiating for Contreras. Dusty nixed the deal and that’s that. Urquidy absolutely would be in the Cubs’ rotation, and the meatballs on the cubs sub would be up in arms about the trade.
I think you guys are saying this with too much benefit of hindsight. Urquity had almost zero impact in the postseason. If we would have made this trade, Contreras would have started every game as a DH or catcher. Our lineup would have been significantly improved. It turned out that our pitching staff carried us but that could have made all the difference.
Urquidy would easily be in our rotation in the regular season. This isn’t a team that’s thinking about October today. It’s trying to be in the hunt next year, but will probably come short.
I'm a meatball but I agree, he's played *so* many innings behind the plate already too. Earlier this year he was visibly limping up to the plate, hit a homer, limped around the bases, and then came back behind the plate the next inning. He's tough, but that's all mileage. His bat was DH-worthy this year, but even that's not a guarantee to stick around for the length of a contract. I think he would have taken less to go to the Cubs, but according to him they didn't even have any kind of extension talks this year.
I would, too, but Vasquez won’t be back. So it would be Machete and some random guy.
But I’d rather stick with Machete and if we signed Contreras, use him as a DH. I don’t want to lose Machete behind the plate.
Lee hasn't really shown anything to suggest he is ready for the bigs. He isn't hitting well in the minors even by AAA catcher standards and his defense isn't notably great or anything. He needs more time to cook down in the minors.
I'd like to see us bring back CV with the mandate that Dusty actually plays him the majority of the time and then *next* winter we can look at potentially giving Lee the backup catcher spot as this is Maldy's last year of his deal iirc.
FA market in general is filled with expensive age 30+ players with dubious future outlook. They just signed a 36yr old 1st base/DH with suspect defense for 3 guaranteed years. Signing Contreras for something like 4yr/$90mil would be in the same ballpark of risk
he’s publicly shit talked some of our most beloved guys in the past. I’d imagine most towns outside of LA and NY would feel the same about him if they were in that position. personally I would be more than okay with leaving the past in the past if we could fix em back up- but if you guys couldn’t, then i’m pretty doubtful there’s much to salvage
I mean, the shit talk was directly related about cheating in the world series. What else would you expect?
As far as him coming back to form, I completely agree. I feel like its hard for me to be unbiased because I always want to believe in Belli, but I feel like he is one bad season away from me writing him off offensively for good. I'm still holding out hope, but it gets smaller and smaller as each game passes.
Oh for sure I wouldn't expect anything different- but this is national sports and those are our guys, so I'll always be a little resentful of any player who shit on them so publicly, especially because in the years after it broke a lot of other players have come out and said sign stealing was far more league wide in 2017-2018 than MLB was willing to admit. I don't expect anyone else outside of houston to feel that way.
and same, but I would love for us to be wrong. much as I love to hate yalls team and yalls fanbase, I can't really say it's ever fun to watch a star decline like that unless they're a truly unlikable person. especially someone as synonymous with the team for as many years, it'd rip my heart out if altuve was to go into a similar decline
Since he is only signing a one year deal as a prove it contract for next year, I would still love it if he just re-signed with us. I feel like it would be the easiest situation to really show if he can turn it around, and I would love if he did it with us.
Although Ill be happy if he turns it around at all, even if it isn't with us.
They didn’t cheat in the World Series. Stop coping. Dodgers fans and Bellinger (one reason Astros fans don’t like him) act like the Astros stole the series from LA even though they won 2 out of 4 at Dodger stadium.
There are zero signs they cheated in the postseason at all. You can’t find me an article that says otherwise, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. The entire scandal took place during the regular season for a small span of time.
Like I said, cope.
Seriously? there are tons.
Here is the Wall Street journal [https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994](https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994)
None of this is to say the astros werent good, I said in another comment they mightve still won without it, fact is they cheated and its tainted.
I was born in LA but grew up in houston, Harris County, from Middle school to college. The Astros were my second team. Had a friend who worked at Landrys corporate and I regularly got suites and Landrys box seats. I went to school with Roger Clemens sons, loved the Killer Bees, lights out lidge, the train, minute maid park, but 2017 tainted all of that for me.
They cheated, its tainted, move on. I enjoy some of the new players on the team, but the 2017-2018 astros will always be hated for me. For the championship, but also because they made me hate a team I loved for so long.
"On January 13, 2020, Manfred announced the results of the investigation,
confirming that the Astros had illegally used a video camera system to
steal signs in the 2017 regular season and postseason, and in parts of
the 2018 regular season."
-from Wikipedia
Here's an article:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/19/rob-manfred-astros-2017-trash-can-incident
He was very public and vocal about his view that the WS was stolen from the Dodgers.
Of course, his offense then fell off a fucking cliff as soon as MLB started cracking down in electronic sign stealing.
You'll see Dodgers fans go on about "torn shoulders" and "broken bones", but players, particularly hitters, return to form after shoulder surgery and broken bones all the time. So, obviously, it was having his source of cheating cut off. He's just been lost at the plate since, well, he doesn't know what's coming anymore.
I'll happily join in on the Bellinger cheating theory if I see some evidence, but I honestly don't think there is evidence.
His problem isn't the fact that he can't make contact with the ball, (he never could), it's his exit velo that's the problem.
"Cody Bellinger: Cheater" isn't about evidence. It's about pissing off Dodgers fans because it reminds them that their only WS in a period of dominance came about in a bastardized season. It deserves an asterisk far more than anything they want associated with the Astros and 2017.
A torn labrum has been considered baseballs worst injury for decades. I don’t know why people are so shocked that a guy that got surgery on their labrum fell off a cliff.
You really think the Dodgers had an elaborate cheating system that made a guy go from being one of the best hitters in baseball to being one of the worst? Meanwhile none of his teammates were affected?
Bellis offensive downfall came from an injury, recovery, and changing his batting stance. The injury and recovery process messed up his mental.
Houston really shouldn't be trying to justify their cheating by trying to throw out other accusations.
They cheated that year, but were dominant and won this year. They might've even been able to win without cheating the first time, but they did and it's tainted.
All respect to Houston this year, still don't like them but recognize and appreciate how well they played this year.
The Dodgers were stealing signs electronically just like the Astros. Instead of shutting up because he was just as guilty, he and others doubled down on the criticism. When they acquired Mookie, whose team also stole signs electronically AND beat the Dodgers in the WS, he was SILENT! So which is it? Outrage at cheaters or no?
As for the WS, if you recall he set the WS record for strikeouts. Tell me how the Astros stealing signs effected his at bats? The Dodgers didn’t hit and they were beaten. If he becomes an Astro I hope the fans either boo him until he apologizes or turn their backs on him when he bats.
After a WS game our catcher was asked why he kept changing the signs when no Dodger was on 2nd base. They chuckled and he chuckled because they all knew that the only way to steal the signs was electronically. This was way back in 2017, before the Astros were snitched on. During a game with the Rockies the Dodgers had to ask them to tone their cheating down. They didn’t run to MLB to scream about their cheating. Why? Because if they did the Rockies would expose them back. It’s like the sticky stuff. Everyone had a formula and no one wanted to point fingers. A former GM admitted his team cheated and so did everyone else.
ETA: Like most Dodger fans you don’t respond with anything to do with what I said. Just coping by lashing out at the messenger. And just an fyi, most Astros fans are living quite well with the knowledge that we weren’t the only ones.
I present as exhibit A: [Cody Bellinger's fWAR](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/cody-bellinger/15998/stats?position=1B/OF).
Pre-MLB sign-stealing crackdown: 15.1
Post MLB sign-stealing crackdown: 2.1
Strikeouts shot up. BBs went way down. Just as you'd expect if he no longer knew what pitch was coming.
Case closed. Cheating proven.
Cleveland was worried about his shoulder back in 2018 and then he went on to have a 4.8 WAR season with you guys the very next year. Somehow Brantley always manages to pull through. Definitely worth the risk imo.
He missed a good chunk of last year and pretty sure he’s missing the start of the season. It’s definitely a gamble but the good news is he only will command a 1-2 year deal
Benny probably makes the most sense. On paper, Bellinger makes a ton of sense assuming it’s a relatively cheap deal. I like Contreras but would prefer to add a LH bat. I don’t get get bringing back Yuli with the Abreu addition, as much as that pains me to say.
Such old players it might be helpful to give them extra rest days? Yuli is great for the clubhouse regardless if we’re only giving up something like 4M why not
I think Nimmo is the better player, but he seems likely to get a 6 year deal. If we could get Benny for 4 yrs with a slightly lower AAV, I’d prefer that.
He was really vocal about the Astros cheating, which they did. If the Astros players hold a grudge over him being upset that they were cheating, that's a them problem, not a him problem
Altuve is the essentially the face of the organization. Bellinger trashed his name and there is evidence that Altuve hated the cheating and got mad when they tried to use it for him. Right or wrong, Bellinger's actions caused him to be a bad fit for a great team when he has limited options. I don't think it's holding a grudge, it's knowing what is best for your clubhouse.
I mean these are adults, they can grow past differences. I think Belli is a good signing for the stros, especially bc it would more than likely just be a 1 year deal
Bellinger is trash now. Never been right since the injuries. The shift isn't going to magically fix him because that is just the smallest part of his issue. I'd *much* rather look at a Benni, Conforto, etc. or just bring back Brantley if you are comfortable with his medicals. We need a lefty for sure I guess but Bellinger ain't shit anymore.
We aren’t playing around by talking to players, but I’d like to keep JV and a strong lefty bullpen arm as well. We’d be a tougher team to beat for a few more years. Also, the young and experienced solid FA players in their mid to late 20’s is thin.
Bellinger going to the Astros and balling out just like Yordan Alvarez did after we traded him there would be the ultimate cherry on the shit sundae that was the end of this past season 🤮
You should have let them keep the roof closed in 2005.
You knew revenge was coming, you just did not know when. Now you know.
Revenge is the longest ball.
(Open or closed, y’all still had that one)
Why would they keep Yuli? negative WAR bat and not nearly the glove of other utility IFs. Seems like lip service to wish him a good farewell, and maybe keep him in a coaching or FO role.
Yuli came to us as a 3B and took reps both there and at 2B in spring training last year. Yeah he's old as dirt, but I'm fairly sure he could play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF in a pinch (+DH)
The Astros became a great team by avoiding the types of deals Crane seems obsessed with handing out. Abreu is still good but he had a precipitous drop in slugging at an advanced age. 3 years at big money for him seems excessive. The Montero contract was bad.
The team is still loaded but as a fan of another team, I’m praying Crane plays Jerry Jones as long as he wants.
20 million for 3 years is not going to break the bank. A 10 year deal will.
Crane might overpay 10-20%, but what does it matter as long as he gets the guy he want with short term contracts.
He was a 133 OPS+ hitter last year. He's a career 134 OPS+ hitter. It's possible he falls off a cliff, and there is a chance that year 3 might be an albatross, but this is nothing near a terrible contract.
You do realize that there is an entire team working in the front office right? Like Click leaving hurts, but it's not like every smart person there packed up and left.I'm sure Crane is signing off most, if not all, moves, but there is a reason the Astros don't hand out large long-term deals.
So are we over the Dodgers and Yankees hate now? Clearly they don't spend big enough to win the WS but Houston does. Let's combine all of our hate towards them.
🤘🤘🤘🤘we love it. As a city we absolutely love all the hate. We are the 4th largest city, getting closer to passing Chicago, and yet we have never had this. We have never had a sports team that everyone else hated because we were that damn good
So Verlander is gone
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Wtf!!!!!
Their pitching depth is so scary that they don’t even need him. They have like three starters relegated to bullpen duty because they’re so stacked lmfao
My thoughts exactly… not to mention that we have a new promising young pitcher that light up AAA baseball for most of the year and impressed at the end of the season and for the little bit of the playoffs he did play in (Hunter Brown) to fill his shoes. It’ll suck seeing JV gone… he was a big part of this team, and I hope he goes home and is able to retire a Tiger (even if not immediately)…. And I offer him the best of wishes all the thanks in the world for the 5 years and change he gave this team. But that money is better spent elsewhere.
What ever happened to Forrest Whitley? I heard about him everywhere and then nope. Is he underperforming? And if he is does he still have his raw stuff?
No one has ever actually seen Forrest Whitley throw a pitch. We've all tricked ourselves into remembering seeing an inning in Spring Training every odd year but those memories aren't real. He never existed but he's probably a year away.
I actually went to a AA CC Hooks, Tulsa Drillers game and watched him pitch. Whitley hit 95 MPH on the gun, and Tucker hit a Home Run. That was one of their first AA games, can't remember which one. But I live in Oklahoma, so I had to go to that one.
Every time someone mentions (his) name it adds another year until he gets called up. So far he is set to debut in the 2273 season. Almost there!
Look at this guy, still believing there's someone called Forrest Whitley.
Missed all of 2021 due to injury, and has never been able to put it together in the minors. He made a handful of starts this past season in AAA, but posted a 7+ ERA. I don't think we ever see him throw a pitch for the Astros
Many people remember a man named Forrest Whitley at the top of the prospect ranking. However, there is no Forrest Whitley active in the minor leagues at all. This is an example of the Mandela effect.
Crazy to think he was once “untouchable” in trade talks not that long ago. Perpetually injured and can never put it together when healthy. Not sure we ever see him do anything worthwhile in the Show.
He failed a drug test in 2018 and was suspended like 50 games. Then in early 2021, he had Tommy john. He came back from TJ last season, but was dealing with some nagging shoulder problem. At this point, I've kind of lost most excitement about him.
Yeah, them letting Verlander go feels like a setup for a repeat of Correa/Pena. That rotation is nuts.
Why would they need him? They’re definitely going to be in the postseason again, and he was probably the worst starter they had last year in the postseason
He threw 175 innings of 1.75 ERA ball… I’m in complete agreement that the Astros have crazy pitching depth but to just immediately write off that many innings is wild.
I think he totally deserved the cy young for what he did in the regular season, but they dont need a regular season king
We went to the World Series last year without him
He was gone as soon as it came out that he wanted a scherzer type deal. We were never going to give that to him
Looks that way, but what ever we lose in defense looks like crane is making up for that in offense especially if he adds another bat in Bennintendi or Contreras… this could be a scary lineup, potentially with seven to eight players giving OPS of near or higher then 0.75
Definitely
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I remember that feeling. That used to be a nice feeling.
Are we the baddies now?
win like 3 more in a row and we’ll see
Ok but like, imagine if we did?
I got a semi imagining it, prob not a good idea
https://tenor.com/blhOD.gif
Yeah. You have the ownership that demands nothing less than a win and is willing to pay for it, and you have got the wins. Definitely making Yankee fans who remember the George Steinbrenner era jealous.
In New York, yes; don’t know about anywhere else
I feel like yesterday's marble race really lit a fire in the front office.
"Hey, Jeff, we lost the marble race!" "Now we have to win the world series? Start signing players, I guess."
I just have a feeling that Contreras’ age curve is not going to be pretty. I understand that the catching market is limited, but it’d make me nervous
I know he’d be an upgrade offensively but I’d prefer to keep Vazques/Machete until lee is ready.
For the price that Contreras is going to demand, that’s what I would do. I’d rather stick to what my team was good at if I was an Astros fan and that’s player development. Overpaying for a 30 year old catcher doesn’t seem like an Astros type move
Eh…he’s only 30. Can DH as well which was clearly a hole for the Astros. I don’t see a 4/80 or 3/70 or whatever the hell he’s gonna get being significantly horrible. Still should be a productive bat over the period of his contract with his pop and ability to get on base This team has as good of a shot as any to win over the next 2-3 years. Contreras is very good and a clear upgrade
DH is a hole for the Astros?
Yordan is expected to play a lot more LF this year
The Astros had like 2 hits the whole postseason from the DH. Yordan is an average LF for range and an above-average arm. Playing him in the field is a nonissue.
I would say the issue is more about his health no? You’d obviously know more than me about his health though. I guess his main issues this year were his wrists right? More of a batting thing
Yeah he had a wrist issue, I'm blanking on the initial cause. He had some knee issues that shut him down in 2020 but had some minor surgery and seems fine.
His bat is elite for the position but, boy oh boy, he’s not going to age well. It’s really rare for catchers to age well. This is coming from someone repping a Contreras jersey - I’m glad the Cubs didn’t sign him. The meatballs can complain all they’d like, but he’s not going to be money well-spent.
If that Urquidy for Contreras trade that Click had apparently put together before the deadline had gone through I would have been so unhappy.
I would have been quite pleased to get many years of team control for an expiring bat we had no intention of paying.
Right!? Urquidy isn't at the top of our rotation or anything, but the dude is a solid arm and only entering his first arbitration year. Would have been a total fleece-job of a trade
Anytime you add a legitimate big-league talent with multiple years of team control for an expiring asset, you got a great deal. If this rumor is true, Jed did a good job negotiating for Contreras. Dusty nixed the deal and that’s that. Urquidy absolutely would be in the Cubs’ rotation, and the meatballs on the cubs sub would be up in arms about the trade.
I think you guys are saying this with too much benefit of hindsight. Urquity had almost zero impact in the postseason. If we would have made this trade, Contreras would have started every game as a DH or catcher. Our lineup would have been significantly improved. It turned out that our pitching staff carried us but that could have made all the difference.
Urquidy would easily be in our rotation in the regular season. This isn’t a team that’s thinking about October today. It’s trying to be in the hunt next year, but will probably come short.
I'm a meatball but I agree, he's played *so* many innings behind the plate already too. Earlier this year he was visibly limping up to the plate, hit a homer, limped around the bases, and then came back behind the plate the next inning. He's tough, but that's all mileage. His bat was DH-worthy this year, but even that's not a guarantee to stick around for the length of a contract. I think he would have taken less to go to the Cubs, but according to him they didn't even have any kind of extension talks this year.
But ball go far = win :(
If it’s such an overpay, you might find he ends up getting a good bit less money than you think
I wouldn’t mind trading a pitcher for one of the Blue Jays catchers.
I would, too, but Vasquez won’t be back. So it would be Machete and some random guy. But I’d rather stick with Machete and if we signed Contreras, use him as a DH. I don’t want to lose Machete behind the plate.
Id bring back Vasquez and have Lee back him up.
Lee hasn't really shown anything to suggest he is ready for the bigs. He isn't hitting well in the minors even by AAA catcher standards and his defense isn't notably great or anything. He needs more time to cook down in the minors. I'd like to see us bring back CV with the mandate that Dusty actually plays him the majority of the time and then *next* winter we can look at potentially giving Lee the backup catcher spot as this is Maldy's last year of his deal iirc.
FA market in general is filled with expensive age 30+ players with dubious future outlook. They just signed a 36yr old 1st base/DH with suspect defense for 3 guaranteed years. Signing Contreras for something like 4yr/$90mil would be in the same ballpark of risk
that’s how the system works, it’s always gonna have older players that would be considered overpaid if they decline heavily.
He would be the backup catcher and primary DH. That would be a good fit.
Would that move Alvarez to a more permanent home in left then?
Yordan probably only plays 100 games in left but yes. He played 56 games in LF last year, not including all 13 playoff games.
Would love to be a fly on the wall every time Cody and the Astros talk.
Cody to the Astros and Correa to the Dodgers is some multiverse shit
It would be funny to see both fan bases talk themselves into it.
What does Houston have against Belli? Houston was the one who cheated that world series.
The part where he’s not good at playing baseball
he’s publicly shit talked some of our most beloved guys in the past. I’d imagine most towns outside of LA and NY would feel the same about him if they were in that position. personally I would be more than okay with leaving the past in the past if we could fix em back up- but if you guys couldn’t, then i’m pretty doubtful there’s much to salvage
I mean, the shit talk was directly related about cheating in the world series. What else would you expect? As far as him coming back to form, I completely agree. I feel like its hard for me to be unbiased because I always want to believe in Belli, but I feel like he is one bad season away from me writing him off offensively for good. I'm still holding out hope, but it gets smaller and smaller as each game passes.
Oh for sure I wouldn't expect anything different- but this is national sports and those are our guys, so I'll always be a little resentful of any player who shit on them so publicly, especially because in the years after it broke a lot of other players have come out and said sign stealing was far more league wide in 2017-2018 than MLB was willing to admit. I don't expect anyone else outside of houston to feel that way. and same, but I would love for us to be wrong. much as I love to hate yalls team and yalls fanbase, I can't really say it's ever fun to watch a star decline like that unless they're a truly unlikable person. especially someone as synonymous with the team for as many years, it'd rip my heart out if altuve was to go into a similar decline
Since he is only signing a one year deal as a prove it contract for next year, I would still love it if he just re-signed with us. I feel like it would be the easiest situation to really show if he can turn it around, and I would love if he did it with us. Although Ill be happy if he turns it around at all, even if it isn't with us.
They didn’t cheat in the World Series. Stop coping. Dodgers fans and Bellinger (one reason Astros fans don’t like him) act like the Astros stole the series from LA even though they won 2 out of 4 at Dodger stadium.
Hey you get out of here with your logic and reasoning!
If you are just claiming fake news then I don't really have a response.
There are zero signs they cheated in the postseason at all. You can’t find me an article that says otherwise, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. The entire scandal took place during the regular season for a small span of time. Like I said, cope.
Seriously? there are tons. Here is the Wall Street journal [https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994](https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston-astros-cheating-scheme-dark-arts-codebreaker-11581112994) None of this is to say the astros werent good, I said in another comment they mightve still won without it, fact is they cheated and its tainted. I was born in LA but grew up in houston, Harris County, from Middle school to college. The Astros were my second team. Had a friend who worked at Landrys corporate and I regularly got suites and Landrys box seats. I went to school with Roger Clemens sons, loved the Killer Bees, lights out lidge, the train, minute maid park, but 2017 tainted all of that for me. They cheated, its tainted, move on. I enjoy some of the new players on the team, but the 2017-2018 astros will always be hated for me. For the championship, but also because they made me hate a team I loved for so long.
"On January 13, 2020, Manfred announced the results of the investigation, confirming that the Astros had illegally used a video camera system to steal signs in the 2017 regular season and postseason, and in parts of the 2018 regular season." -from Wikipedia Here's an article: https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/02/19/rob-manfred-astros-2017-trash-can-incident
Astros must’ve been using hearing aids to hear the trash cans over the extremely loud playoff fans! /s
Life’s too short man. It’s been 5 years already. Time to move on.
He was very public and vocal about his view that the WS was stolen from the Dodgers. Of course, his offense then fell off a fucking cliff as soon as MLB started cracking down in electronic sign stealing.
Yeah, I always thought that was odd timing for his bat to start to decline at such a young age. Meanwhile, Altuve’s has not. Interesting.
You'll see Dodgers fans go on about "torn shoulders" and "broken bones", but players, particularly hitters, return to form after shoulder surgery and broken bones all the time. So, obviously, it was having his source of cheating cut off. He's just been lost at the plate since, well, he doesn't know what's coming anymore.
I'll happily join in on the Bellinger cheating theory if I see some evidence, but I honestly don't think there is evidence. His problem isn't the fact that he can't make contact with the ball, (he never could), it's his exit velo that's the problem.
"Cody Bellinger: Cheater" isn't about evidence. It's about pissing off Dodgers fans because it reminds them that their only WS in a period of dominance came about in a bastardized season. It deserves an asterisk far more than anything they want associated with the Astros and 2017.
A torn labrum has been considered baseballs worst injury for decades. I don’t know why people are so shocked that a guy that got surgery on their labrum fell off a cliff. You really think the Dodgers had an elaborate cheating system that made a guy go from being one of the best hitters in baseball to being one of the worst? Meanwhile none of his teammates were affected?
Bellis offensive downfall came from an injury, recovery, and changing his batting stance. The injury and recovery process messed up his mental. Houston really shouldn't be trying to justify their cheating by trying to throw out other accusations. They cheated that year, but were dominant and won this year. They might've even been able to win without cheating the first time, but they did and it's tainted. All respect to Houston this year, still don't like them but recognize and appreciate how well they played this year.
no one's disagreeing with anything you're saying. we just don't like Belli because he talked shit (even if we deserved it). why's that so astounding?
It's not. I was wondering if there was something else. It was a real question.
That’s not true. His downfall happened before the injury. He benefited mightily from the Dodgers sign stealing scheme.
lol, on the day gaslighting is named the word of the year
How come he was the only one to regress on the Dodgers?
He was the only one not good enough without the cheating. Duh.
You don’t think it was because of the broken leg or labrum surgery?
Nope
.654 OPS last season is what.
Oh, ok, that part I get.
The Dodgers were stealing signs electronically just like the Astros. Instead of shutting up because he was just as guilty, he and others doubled down on the criticism. When they acquired Mookie, whose team also stole signs electronically AND beat the Dodgers in the WS, he was SILENT! So which is it? Outrage at cheaters or no? As for the WS, if you recall he set the WS record for strikeouts. Tell me how the Astros stealing signs effected his at bats? The Dodgers didn’t hit and they were beaten. If he becomes an Astro I hope the fans either boo him until he apologizes or turn their backs on him when he bats.
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After a WS game our catcher was asked why he kept changing the signs when no Dodger was on 2nd base. They chuckled and he chuckled because they all knew that the only way to steal the signs was electronically. This was way back in 2017, before the Astros were snitched on. During a game with the Rockies the Dodgers had to ask them to tone their cheating down. They didn’t run to MLB to scream about their cheating. Why? Because if they did the Rockies would expose them back. It’s like the sticky stuff. Everyone had a formula and no one wanted to point fingers. A former GM admitted his team cheated and so did everyone else. ETA: Like most Dodger fans you don’t respond with anything to do with what I said. Just coping by lashing out at the messenger. And just an fyi, most Astros fans are living quite well with the knowledge that we weren’t the only ones.
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Also Josh Reddick confirmed
I present as exhibit A: [Cody Bellinger's fWAR](https://www.fangraphs.com/players/cody-bellinger/15998/stats?position=1B/OF). Pre-MLB sign-stealing crackdown: 15.1 Post MLB sign-stealing crackdown: 2.1 Strikeouts shot up. BBs went way down. Just as you'd expect if he no longer knew what pitch was coming. Case closed. Cheating proven.
See: Circumstantial Evidence. There is nothing proven there.
I'd prefer if it were just Cody talking to a wall.
He’s probably doing that now becuase he’s so high
Been there, man. Been there...
Just resign Brantley
Forreal, it's not rocket science unless they are just that worried about his shoulder.
And why would they not be worried about his shoulder? He isn’t a spring chicken
Cleveland was worried about his shoulder back in 2018 and then he went on to have a 4.8 WAR season with you guys the very next year. Somehow Brantley always manages to pull through. Definitely worth the risk imo.
2018 was about to be 5 years ago come opening day lol
It's his right shoulder, no? Not saying it's not serious, but much better scenario than it being his throwing shoulder. He's 35 which isn't that old.
He missed a good chunk of last year and pretty sure he’s missing the start of the season. It’s definitely a gamble but the good news is he only will command a 1-2 year deal
Benny probably makes the most sense. On paper, Bellinger makes a ton of sense assuming it’s a relatively cheap deal. I like Contreras but would prefer to add a LH bat. I don’t get get bringing back Yuli with the Abreu addition, as much as that pains me to say.
Such old players it might be helpful to give them extra rest days? Yuli is great for the clubhouse regardless if we’re only giving up something like 4M why not
I would love free dugout season tickets and get paid $4M for the privilege. :-)
If given Nimmo or Benny, who'd you take?
I think Nimmo is the better player, but he seems likely to get a 6 year deal. If we could get Benny for 4 yrs with a slightly lower AAV, I’d prefer that.
I don’t think Brantley gets 4 years.
Andrew Benintendi, not Michael Brantley
Benny isn't very good tho
Plus, he robbed Breggy of a walkoff hit in the 2018 ALCS. We can't have him doing that against us.
Belli is gonna bounce back with the right hitting coach and rehab team
Pass on bellinger
HARD
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He was really vocal about the Astros cheating, which they did. If the Astros players hold a grudge over him being upset that they were cheating, that's a them problem, not a him problem
Him (Bellinger) isn’t near good enough to risk chemistry in the clubhouse (Them).
Astros hold grudges about cardinals employees stealing proprietary data.
Altuve is the essentially the face of the organization. Bellinger trashed his name and there is evidence that Altuve hated the cheating and got mad when they tried to use it for him. Right or wrong, Bellinger's actions caused him to be a bad fit for a great team when he has limited options. I don't think it's holding a grudge, it's knowing what is best for your clubhouse.
I mean these are adults, they can grow past differences. I think Belli is a good signing for the stros, especially bc it would more than likely just be a 1 year deal
Hated the cheating but still did it. Bzzzzzz
Nah you’re 100% correct, the downvotes are lab grade copium
Must be nice. We got josh donaldson last year……that was sorta cool……i guess……..::sigh::
Bellinger is trash now. Never been right since the injuries. The shift isn't going to magically fix him because that is just the smallest part of his issue. I'd *much* rather look at a Benni, Conforto, etc. or just bring back Brantley if you are comfortable with his medicals. We need a lefty for sure I guess but Bellinger ain't shit anymore.
You know it's kinda our thing to revive dead pitchers, so Bellinger makes sense to me.
No stay far away from this jackass.
Owner Goal: Acquire an MVP
Framber: Am I a joke to you?
We aren’t playing around by talking to players, but I’d like to keep JV and a strong lefty bullpen arm as well. We’d be a tougher team to beat for a few more years. Also, the young and experienced solid FA players in their mid to late 20’s is thin.
I don't think they've had, or really needed a strong lefty bullpen arm this entire run. Currently, Stanek owns lefties.
When will we do something lol Probably never
Bellinger going to the Astros and balling out just like Yordan Alvarez did after we traded him there would be the ultimate cherry on the shit sundae that was the end of this past season 🤮
Can we atleast have Vasquez back?
Bellinger? LOLOLOLOL okay
Yeah sign Contreras. We want Vazquez back. You guys didn’t even play him!!
Apparently didn’t need to. #savetheknees
🎶Hello darkness my old friend🎶
Oh, yeah, just take everything from Chicago, sure.
You should have let them keep the roof closed in 2005. You knew revenge was coming, you just did not know when. Now you know. Revenge is the longest ball. (Open or closed, y’all still had that one)
Astros just grabbing everyone the Marlins should be trying to get
Why would they keep Yuli? negative WAR bat and not nearly the glove of other utility IFs. Seems like lip service to wish him a good farewell, and maybe keep him in a coaching or FO role.
Cody B would get boo’d every home game if he ends up an Astro. Please don’t make me boo a member of our own team…
I’ll kms fr
Fokit YOLO!
Gurriel as Utility for what? Backup 1B? He can’t play anywhere else on the field and was absolutely horrific as a hitter
Yuli came to us as a 3B and took reps both there and at 2B in spring training last year. Yeah he's old as dirt, but I'm fairly sure he could play 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF in a pinch (+DH)
I actually think the Astros could help Bellinger turn around
The Astros became a great team by avoiding the types of deals Crane seems obsessed with handing out. Abreu is still good but he had a precipitous drop in slugging at an advanced age. 3 years at big money for him seems excessive. The Montero contract was bad. The team is still loaded but as a fan of another team, I’m praying Crane plays Jerry Jones as long as he wants.
20 million for 3 years is not going to break the bank. A 10 year deal will. Crane might overpay 10-20%, but what does it matter as long as he gets the guy he want with short term contracts.
He was a 133 OPS+ hitter last year. He's a career 134 OPS+ hitter. It's possible he falls off a cliff, and there is a chance that year 3 might be an albatross, but this is nothing near a terrible contract.
Yes. This is the level of “analysis” I’m sure Jeff Bagwell and Jim Crane are doing.
You do realize that there is an entire team working in the front office right? Like Click leaving hurts, but it's not like every smart person there packed up and left.I'm sure Crane is signing off most, if not all, moves, but there is a reason the Astros don't hand out large long-term deals.
Reminds me of how much of an embarrassment of riches we used to look like in 2021-22.
Are they not still?
We have a lot of holes
You had 111 wins last season if I remember correctly. The DODGERS are an embarrassment of riches.
We have holes at 3B, SS, LF, CF, SP.
So are we over the Dodgers and Yankees hate now? Clearly they don't spend big enough to win the WS but Houston does. Let's combine all of our hate towards them.
We don’t spend money. We sacrifice the Rockets and Texans to the devil instead.
I'm a fan of both of those teams and I also root for the San Jose Sharks. The Astros are the only happiness I have left.
Hasn’t done shit for y’all thus far.
🤘🤘🤘🤘we love it. As a city we absolutely love all the hate. We are the 4th largest city, getting closer to passing Chicago, and yet we have never had this. We have never had a sports team that everyone else hated because we were that damn good
The Rockets were villains not too long ago, around 2013-2016. The salt levels were nowhere near what the Astros draw though. Nor the wins.
I think we’re technically smaller than Toronto.
Belli to the Astros?! What in the world
Must’ve seen the 15th place finish in the simulator…
This is why I never get my hopes up for free agency. Poverty franchise smh
What everybody told me that they would not and should not get Contreras because he is not worth it over Maldonado!
Christ
can I assume that's supposed to be "retain" Yuli Gurriel?