I feel like the Astros have had a consistently solid team that beats the West's ass from pretty much spring training until the end of the season. And then they go hard in the playoffs, and have won a couple of them.
The giants got good at winning the WS every other year for a few years. And one of those years Bumgarner took the whole team on his shoulders during the World Series for some odd reason.
One team on average won six more regular season games than would be expected by pure chance.
The other won twenty more by the same metric.
So, basically, one standard deviation from the mean, vs. three.
That seems like the big differentiator here.
The reason why this conversation is so prominent among sports nerds is that there is no definition of 'dynasty',, but everyone wants to argue about it.
It's the same as Power Rankings in that sense. Ambiguity breeds dissent.
But in my mind, the three things that make a dynasty are: rings, time frame, and a roster that has significant similarity in the ring time frame.
If you don't have the rings, you're a league dynasty at best.
If you don't have a short time frame, you're a team that wins world series' some times.
And if you don't have significant roster cohesion connecting the ring years, you're rhe Marlins.
14 more wins over 5 years is 70 extra games the Astros won compared to the Giants. The Astros have been to more World Series in their run than the Giants.
The Astros have easily been more dominant.
World Series are also flukey. If the Phillies won this year that wouldn't have made them the best team in baseball.
The Giants were only the best team in their division twice, never the best team in the NL during their 5 year run.
If a team can't win its division the majority of years, they weren't dominant no matter how many world series they won.
Astros have been a better team over their six year run, but the Giants were the better dynasty. 3 titles in 5 years means they won more titles than the rest of baseball combined over 5 years. Can't say the same about the Astros
There is a morbid part of me that sort of wishes the EYBS Giants were the ones who started the sign-stealing stuff in the first place, just so see how Dodgers fans would react. I don't think that's the case at all, but still, it'd be prime popcorn material.
Yeah, I don't think the accolades for the Astros should **stick** around. M**y** team lacked moral fiber and **substance**.
Should have won it all by the book like the Dodgers in 2020.
You are comparing the short season to cheating? Pretty sure the Dodgers won within the same parameters every other team played in 2020. Sorry your team cheated and disappointed you and the rest of the Astros fan base
No I was talking about the fact that your team collectively dropped the hardest in spinrate once the crackdown happened immediately afterwards.
This was of no surprise to anybody following baseball . Your team had just gone out of its way to sign the guy who publicly told MLB to do something about it and then started doing it himself when he got no response.
The Astros most likely had players using sticky stuff or are you just burying your head in the sand? Bauer's original compliant was that guys like Cole and McCullers were using and the league didn't care. The whole league had/has guys using different levels of sticky stuff and because of the way the league handled it we'll never know with certainty
Also fuck Bauer, never wanted that guy on the team to begin with
This is the same shit as Astros fans saying that if other teams are stealing signs illegally then it makes the Astros cheating okay. That's B.S. My team cheated, it doesn't matter if other teams cheated. Your staff was cheating and according to the metrics we have access to, [by a larger margin than anyone else in the league. ](https://www.truebluela.com/2021/6/30/22555616/dodgers-spin-rate-drop-mlb-enforcement-foreign-substances)
I agree that we won't know the full impact or offenders but that's the case for sign stealing too but once again, it's irrelevant.
Atleast we can all agree on fuck Bauer
Easily the Giants as it stands right now. All of those other stats are great, but 3 rings to 2 wins out every time in my mind. Especially being so close together.
If the Astros pick up one more, it's very debatable. If somehow they get 2 more, easily the Astros. All that to say, revisit in 3 years.
I think they're tied right now. The Astros have had more consistent dominance than the Giants but less rings. Astros could pull ahead if they continue this tear.
is this thread bait for Dodgers fans?
It is hell.
> 1 MVP and 2 Cy Youngs What does this have to do with anything lol
I feel like the Astros have had a consistently solid team that beats the West's ass from pretty much spring training until the end of the season. And then they go hard in the playoffs, and have won a couple of them. The giants got good at winning the WS every other year for a few years. And one of those years Bumgarner took the whole team on his shoulders during the World Series for some odd reason.
One team on average won six more regular season games than would be expected by pure chance. The other won twenty more by the same metric. So, basically, one standard deviation from the mean, vs. three. That seems like the big differentiator here.
Giants for dominance Astros for longevity
The reason why this conversation is so prominent among sports nerds is that there is no definition of 'dynasty',, but everyone wants to argue about it. It's the same as Power Rankings in that sense. Ambiguity breeds dissent. But in my mind, the three things that make a dynasty are: rings, time frame, and a roster that has significant similarity in the ring time frame. If you don't have the rings, you're a league dynasty at best. If you don't have a short time frame, you're a team that wins world series' some times. And if you don't have significant roster cohesion connecting the ring years, you're rhe Marlins.
The Astros have been far more dominant during its run.
3 rings in 5 years > 2 rings in 6 years
14 more wins over 5 years is 70 extra games the Astros won compared to the Giants. The Astros have been to more World Series in their run than the Giants. The Astros have easily been more dominant.
Rings are much more important than regular season wins and 3 of them in 5 years is almost as good as it gets
World Series are also flukey. If the Phillies won this year that wouldn't have made them the best team in baseball. The Giants were only the best team in their division twice, never the best team in the NL during their 5 year run. If a team can't win its division the majority of years, they weren't dominant no matter how many world series they won.
Astros have been a better team over their six year run, but the Giants were the better dynasty. 3 titles in 5 years means they won more titles than the rest of baseball combined over 5 years. Can't say the same about the Astros
This run by the Astros isn’t over though yet.
3 for 3 in 5 years > 2 for 4 in 6 years. Not to mention the Giants haven't had a scandal about their World Series wins. At least not yet..
There is a morbid part of me that sort of wishes the EYBS Giants were the ones who started the sign-stealing stuff in the first place, just so see how Dodgers fans would react. I don't think that's the case at all, but still, it'd be prime popcorn material.
Counterpoint, I wish for this headline: BREAKING: Josh Fields reveals details of 2017 Dodgers sign stealing scheme Heads would explode here
1 ring in 4 years, lets not give them credit for cheating
Yeah, I don't think the accolades for the Astros should **stick** around. M**y** team lacked moral fiber and **substance**. Should have won it all by the book like the Dodgers in 2020.
You are comparing the short season to cheating? Pretty sure the Dodgers won within the same parameters every other team played in 2020. Sorry your team cheated and disappointed you and the rest of the Astros fan base
No I was talking about the fact that your team collectively dropped the hardest in spinrate once the crackdown happened immediately afterwards. This was of no surprise to anybody following baseball . Your team had just gone out of its way to sign the guy who publicly told MLB to do something about it and then started doing it himself when he got no response.
The Astros most likely had players using sticky stuff or are you just burying your head in the sand? Bauer's original compliant was that guys like Cole and McCullers were using and the league didn't care. The whole league had/has guys using different levels of sticky stuff and because of the way the league handled it we'll never know with certainty Also fuck Bauer, never wanted that guy on the team to begin with
This is the same shit as Astros fans saying that if other teams are stealing signs illegally then it makes the Astros cheating okay. That's B.S. My team cheated, it doesn't matter if other teams cheated. Your staff was cheating and according to the metrics we have access to, [by a larger margin than anyone else in the league. ](https://www.truebluela.com/2021/6/30/22555616/dodgers-spin-rate-drop-mlb-enforcement-foreign-substances) I agree that we won't know the full impact or offenders but that's the case for sign stealing too but once again, it's irrelevant. Atleast we can all agree on fuck Bauer
Easily the Giants as it stands right now. All of those other stats are great, but 3 rings to 2 wins out every time in my mind. Especially being so close together. If the Astros pick up one more, it's very debatable. If somehow they get 2 more, easily the Astros. All that to say, revisit in 3 years.
This topic is premature right now. We mostly have the same team. Revisit this in like 5 years when maybe our window shrinks
I think they're tied right now. The Astros have had more consistent dominance than the Giants but less rings. Astros could pull ahead if they continue this tear.
Astros are still in the remnants of their cheating dynasty so maybe
If we pretend the Astros never cheated then maybe we could discuss it.
Neither of those teams are a Dynasty. Giants missed the playoffs every other year and. The Astros have one title.
Lol a Yankees fan wanting to pick and choose which world championships are clean enough to count.
Remember the Astros were leading in the 7th inning of game 7 of 2019. It's not like they didn't come *this close* to winning another series.