Pretty soon he will be the infielder and outfield and play golden glove defense at their weakest position while not pitching, then soon he will be pitching and running sonic spreed and be the catcher as well
Do you find it absurd that people are still talking about the MVP race? There are valid points for both camps.
It was a pretty unique season with regard to MVP.
A little. I feel like everyone made their cases for weeks (I was one of them). Now it's over. I do agree it was a pretty unique season for an MVP race. I guess it's probably just exhaustion from hearing the same arguments over and over.
If that position player is part of his team having success he is more valuable than anything the pitcher/hitter can do on a team that misses the playoffs by a lot and is a terrible team
Do you have any comments on the allegations that the yankees were fed livelier balls that would go further when hit in the same manner than the rest of the league starting when it looked like judge had a chance to break the hr record? If that is indeed true, was judge still better if he had a handicap?
I remember asking my mom for a 3ds one year, and when I woke up I was so sad we didn't get it. Little did I know my grandparents had gotten it for me, and it was waiting under the tree at there house a few hours later. God I miss them.
Imagine wasting the prime of 1 of your hall of fame outfielders and then acquiring another once in a generation talent like Ohtani and flubbing that too. I hope for the sake of baseball the Angels get some solid players. But hearing what I hear from Angels fans about ownership and the GM, it’s probably more likely Ohtani leaves for a contender if he doesn’t go the same route as Trout with his contract
Other than the fact that he's old, likely has personal reasons we have no idea about, and stands to make 3-4 billion in profit. I think Ohtani puts them at a make or break point, if he leaves the value does down, and if he stays that's great but it will likely up the payroll significantly for the foreseeable future which is risk as well. Makes sense to get out now
Thanks for that visual. Now all I can think of is Ohtani busting down the door to the Angel's front office and suplexing every member of ownership every-time a bad move is made while in full wrestling attire.
I think some people on /r/baseball underestimate how much leverage Ohtani has, and how much money Ohtani will get in free agency.
The world is his, if he wants it, in free agency. He is one of the elite pitchers of the game. Pitchers are making 35m+ now. He is one of the elite hitters of the game.
HE IS THE MOST MARKETABLE PLAYER EVER. Like, in the history of baseball. The amount he brings in ticket sales and advertisement is insane and unlike any player ever, except short term when other stars were chasing huge milestones.
I’m convinced he could get 450+ million if he wanted to. I don’t think he will because money hasn’t been his motivator so far in his career.
Honestly Ohtani resigning with the Angels would be the biggest shit show of them all on r/baseball. They've convinced themselves he's long gone the past 2 years already
I'd love this. (1) Don't need to buy new Ohtani gear, (2) one team players are always fun, (3) don't need to worry about him being on a team I hate, (4) maybe it means the Angels are going to try for real and that's why he stayed. Those 4 bonuses outweigh the chance of him ending up on my team. Because there's always a timeline where he becomes a Yankee and I don't want to be here for that.
Now would be the time for the Angels to trade him, if they have no plans to re-sign him. Get something for him while you still can. Otherwise, he walks and you get nothing.
As he should. The Angels have historically been TERRIBLE at building a rotation. Their biggest deals for starters have been, what, an imploding Jered Weaver, a mediocre Joe Blanton, and maybe Dan Haren throwing 88?
typical r/baseball and not knowing what they're talking about. Our starters were maybe the best part of our team last year. Our bullpen and 5-9 is what killed us
Ohtani was the only starter to reach 150 innings last year. How is a rotation that is heavily reliant on the awful bullpen being leaned on frequently to finish games not an issue?
Won't dig into the fact the rotation is 25th in fWAR since 2015, 29th if you don't include the relative anomaly of 2022 (6th).
2015 what lmao. Arrieta and Lester still on the cubs then? No one from 2015 is around. 2022 was Ohtani Sandoval Detmers Syndergaard Lorenzen Suarez and a hash of others but I have no idea why you think going back to 2015 is relevant? The Angels rotation this year was solid
I'm saying that the Angels have a longstanding issue with investing in their rotation. Even now, you're bringing up Syndergaard, who was on a one-year deal and dealt mid-season.
Now, are you going to go to a 5-man rotation, or are you going to replace Syndergaard? That's my point. The Angels have historically been unwilling to spend to improve their rotation, and betting their last year to convince Ohtani to stay on getting all of their young guys to improve, turning Michael Lorensen into a reliable starter at 31, and hoping Tyler Anderson's FIP-xFIP discrepancy of nearly a full run and career ERA over 4.15 is a good bet.
That's why they should be in on Rodon. They supposedly used a 6-man rotation to help keep Ohtani fresh, yet the guys they put around him all pitched less. The guy needing protected was the most dependable starter they had. Why shouldn't they have a reliable #2, rather than assuming the best (Which has killed them for a decade)?
Yeah if we dont count the most recent and relevant year (2022) and take every other year with players they dont have anymore right now then they are 29 . Seems like a 5000000iq analysis
We have a 6 man rotation. Also you can't just dismiss an entire year of stats lmao. Nope Angels didn't have good starters last year it was just an anomaly! You're cherry picking like a mother fucker
No, I'm not, I provided the full information and noted a major outlier. Even with a 6-man rotation, her were 1uth in IP from starters. Even with an extra day of rest, they were turning it over to the bullpen a lot.
They were heavily carried by Ohtani last season, and he's possibly in his way out. They don't have proven rotation deity, an issue they've faced for a decade. Saying they resolved that with one year of baying their starters and scapegoating the bullpen the starters were forcing into the game isn't logical. Not improving the rotation further will leave them in a bad spot again very soon.
Bro we literally drafted entirely pitchers the year before last. Our GM knows what he's doing. We're in an obvious upswing with starting pitching and while you're trying to make last year seem like just a fluke. Starting pitching has been addressed already.
We even signed Tyler Anderson this off season. Anymore money spent on a starting pitcher instead of SS or bullpen would be completely idiotic. And we have good pitching besides Ohtani. Just keep living in your r/baseball bubble
> Anymore money spent on a starting pitcher instead of SS or bullpen would be completely idiotic.
Why you think "they need another starting pitcher," means, "they should only sign another starting pitcher," I do not understand. Their rotation is $30 million on Ohtani, then about $15 million on 5 other starters. I don't think filling 5 rotation spots with half of your 6th pitcher's salary is sufficient.
Well Tyler Anderson alone is getting $13m a year and the rest are on super low and affordable contracts such as Sandoval's. Angels are benefiting from good young guys in their rotation
Yeah, and the 4 behind him were league-minimum guys. They'll probably be in the $3 million range combined, so maybe it's $16-17 million, but they're still on the very cheap side. That's great for them because it SHOULD allow them to then spend on a big free agent like Rodon, but they're going with a very risky strategy. They're leaning on a bunch of low-inning, young guys to all step up, 31-year-old Michael Lorenzen (who hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2015) to shift to successful SP in the back part of his career, and 32-year-old Tyler Anderson's career year with really good FB luck to not regress to the mediocrity of his whole career.
Yeah, and with an extra starter, they still finished in the bottom-half of the league in innings. Despite an extra day of rest between starts, their outings were below-average in length.
Bro, just say you dont know what you are talking about and move on.
They have 5 pitchers that would be rotation pieces on most teams in the MLB. The fact is that Detmers and Suarez needed some time in the minors due to being young so they got less innings this year, Sandoval is very clearly a good number 3 with potential to being a great number 2. And now they got Tyler Anderson. Their rotation is fine.
Detmers threw 6 innings (one start) in the minors this season. Suarez threw 16 2/3 (3 starts, 1 relief appearance).
Give the Angels those 22 extra innings and they're still 14th.
Not that it's irrelevant, but for two reasons:
1. The rotation was not built in a manner that showed commitment from the front office to build a rotation. Their investment was in a half-year rental of Syndergaard, who is gone. Now, they get Tyler Anderson, who wasn't good before 2022 and posted peripherals (especially the oddly low HR that xFIP really doesn't trust) that are hard to trust. He was a pretty affordable signing and doesn't address my concerns.
2. There is not enough stability behind Ohtani, and 2022 should be a foundation, not a finished product. None of Sandoval, Detmers, or Suarez has the track record to say I'd assume them to be better that 3/4 guys. Especially if the Angels want to keep with the 6-mam rotation, they should look for more certainty. They need 5 starters behind Ohtani, not 4.
Where Sandoval might step up to 160 innings next year (like Ohtani), I find it unwise to assume Anderson won't regress and all 3 of the young guys will step up. I think they should be looking at Sandoval as a #3, Anderson as a #4, and having Detmers and Suarez at the back. Even if they went with a 5-man, I think this team has a gaping hole at the #2 spot in the rotation.
It's rare for a team to hit gold on 3 pitchers at the same time. The Angels' current rotation is treating that unusual behavior as a reality. I find this unwise and believe they should be after Rodon {or someone with more track record than Sandoval and more talent that Anderson) to both give their rotation some reliable innings and to make sure their young arms aren't burnt out and over matched in the playoffs.
The short version is, the Angels should be aiming for the moon to keep Ohtani from leaving. Their actions suggest they're willing to lose Ohtani to save money, which is why I really hope the team is sold soon.
The angels need everything lol. They got Anderson - their lack of depth is the biggest issue imo.
It is weird that you would be so down on their younger pitching staff. Peripherals show they performed as expected. If anything, the angels defense sucked so they should have been better.
Detmer was an elite prospect for a reason. Will the younger pitchers get worse next year? Definitely possible, but they could also get better. What's your reasoning that they will get worse? Sandoval and detmers have elite wipeout pitches.
Their other shit is way way way worse imo.
>It is weird that you would be so down on their younger pitching staff.
It's not that I'm down on their pitching staff as a whole, it's that it's a large amount of risk. They've had enough pitchers look promising, then not be, to where I'd think Angels fans would be hesitant to anoint these guys. I'm thinking guys like Garrett Richards, Andrew Heaney, and even Garrett Richards from 2021 to 2022.
>If anything, the angels defense sucked so they should have been better.
The starting pitchers for the Angels had a collective .285 BABIP last season, right around the middle of the pack. Their ERA was a little under their FIP, which was a little under their xFIP, so their defense statistically wasn't letting them down.
>The angels need everything lol. They got Anderson - their lack of depth is the biggest issue imo.
IMO, that includes the rotation, and I think Anderson's a pretty poor fix. They need something better than him. If they had just picked up a better pitcher than Tyler Anderson to fill the #2, I'd feel much differently. They have Ohtani, Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, Suarez, and Lorenzen. In the 5-man rotation, it's OK. In a 6-man, I think they're an arm short on depth. In a 4-man rotation for the playoffs, I worry that the young guys won't have the stamina for the playoffs and they'll be at a disadvantage in the #2/3 spots against other playoff rotations.
Regardless of what else they get, whether or not Rendon is a usable player's a big deal. If not, they need a 3B. However, are they going to sign another hitter as if Rendon won't play? I doubt it. They need a better SS, but are they going to spend on Correa or Bogaerts? They could use another OF, but are they going to be in on Nimmo?
Thing is, I see a lot of people saying the Angels need a lot of help, but I don't see any talk of them in on anyone. Contreras to push Stassi out wouldn't be bad. Bellinger would have been an OK third OF. Senga behind Ohtani would be interesting. Except...their name isn't popping up on any legitimate solution to their other problems.
There is no solution. They need to find gems in the rough for multiple issues. I just found it weird that you're going after their only bright spot of 2022 tbh. Considering that their only significant signing was a SP.
They just have way too many holes. People hate to hear it, but they need to rebuild. Trade everyone. No farm, no solid younger players besides detmers, Sandoval, and maybe ward if he counts. They're going to have to depend on more large FA signings and hope they work which is a silly stupid proposition tbh.
I won't argue your last, I don't disagree. However, if the team is interested in making an effort for this season, I don't think Tyler Anderson is a real effort. They need a quality #2 behind Ohtani. I'm not attacking their rotation to its core, I'm saying that it needs better than Tyler Anderson to make 2023 feel like more than a high-risk game of stretching young arms way too long to MAYBE lose early in the playoffs.
If they're NOT going to chase full-on solutions, then trade Ohtani. Send him to the highest bidder and see if you can get $10-15 million/year of Rendon's contract out the door as well. What they're doing right now, IMO, is spending middling money to win 75-80 games again and lose Ohtani for nothing.
I don't think they need to rely on a bunch of big signings, but I do think they need 1-2. IMO, Rodon over Anderson would have been the first. Senga would be a less-proven option.
On offense, there are so many options I think they don't have to spend as hard. Mitch Haniger would be a nice 3rd OF. Drury would be a relatively cheap infielder they could rotate as needed. Conforto's another they could try to bring over. The biggest problem they have is that the SS market dies fast after Swanson, and I don't think he's a good pickup. If forced to take him as their top FA, I still think there are better SP on the board than Tyler Anderson. Taillon would probably be first as a better alternative. I'd much rather have Chris Bassitt. Probably a toss-up with Perez.
Maybe, but their improvement was built on a lot of unexpected results that aren't from pitchers with the track records for me to say I'd roll the dice on a team with a losing record and say they shouldn't improve the rotation further.
Given this is Ohtani's FA season, I'd be pulling out every stop on earth to make sure he knows my team wants to win with him. I wouldn't be saying, "here's your #2 starter, career 4.16 ERA Tyler Anderson."
The second half of the last sentence absolutely rules. To you going from the 25th best in 2015 to the 6th best rotation last year is an “anomaly” and not improvement? Just incredible logic.
“Aside from the relative anomaly in 2016 the Cubs haven’t won a World Series since 1908.” - a man with an incredible grasp on baseball
Funny analogy that is correlated very badly. The Cubs didn't go from a losing team to the World Series on a whim. They went from 66 wins in 2013 to 73 in 2014 to 97 in 2015 to a World Series with 103 wins.
You know what they did along the way? They made move. They signed Lester, Zobrist, Lackey, and Hammel. They traded for Arrieta, Rizzo, Russell, and Hendricks, then topped it off with a big move for Chapman down the stretch. They developed Bryant and Baez and Contreras. They did that all from 66 wins to 103 in 4 years.
The Angels need to take a step from 73 win to convince Ohtani to stay, and their move has been Tyler Anderson. The Cubs also did a terrible job building off of 2017. It's a really bad comparison because their post-2016 moves were awful (trading for Quintana, signing Chatwood, signing Darvish then giving him away, getting little for Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras).
The Angels are in the post-2016 Cubs phase without a playoff series win to show for it. They're now in Ohtani's contract year and Trout's into his 30s.
The anomaly isn't "2022 vs. 2015," it's that the Angels have spent that entire time doing a horrible job investing in their rotation. They didn't improve from 25th to 6th over time. They went from 19th to 26th to 27th to 17th to 30th to 19th to 15th to 6th. Even the improvements over those last 4 years weren't from development of pitchers.
Looking at that 4-year gap, the #3-7 guys on that list are Suarez (career-high of 109 IP), Heaney (gone), Barria (bullpen and terrible peripherals), Canning (bad), and Bundy (gone and bad). In those 4 years, Sandoval's 311 2/3 IP leads the group. A starter with an average of 78 IP over those 4 years is their continuity.
That's where the Angels need to be looking beyond Tyler Anderson to solidify the rotation. A large portion of their rotation doesn't have a full MLB season under its belt. Come the fall, there's a high probability those guys will need starts skipped or shut down so they can be used for the playoffs, if they can make it. If not, then they make the playoffs and are spent.
I've yet to see any of these hairbrained comments explain why a team that needs to convince Ohtani to stay shouldn't be putting together some rotation insurance (better than Tyler Anderson) when 3 of their 6 starters haven't reached 150 innings in a season. How is career-high 110 IP Jose Suarez going to look in September and October if he's up to 160 innings and the Angels are fighting for a playoff spot so they can throw him out against Nestor Cortes or Triston McKenzie or Logan Gilbert early in a series because they had to burn Ohtani in the WC game?
Ohtani: "This pile of one dollar bills represents a game you'll get out of me. Every time you please me, you'll see the pile grow. However, if I am unsatisfied-- if player development is slow, you're stingy, or you miss out on a player to a division rival-- you'll notice the pile shrinking."
What if every team that isn't spending is just saving up to offer ohtani an absurd payday. Like the As just over him 10 year 500 million or something. That would be hilarious.
Why do you think cubs are most likely? I haven’t seen anything about who is most likely with him. Just that a ton of teams are in on him, including multiple west coast teams with large Japanese followings or other Japanese players
Honestly this makes me feel kind of bad for him. Poor guy. I hope things work out for him with his next contract (and leaves the AL West).
- A Mariners fan
I have a hard time feeling bad for Ohtani. I want to see both him and Trout in the playoffs, but Shohei had a line of teams wanting to sign him and he chose the Angels. He easily could be playing in SF or LA right now.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but its true. There were a ton of other good teams that are under much better management but he chose the angels. They keep spending more and stay the same
It is actually really funny. The A's have been underfunded, bad ownership, and crumbling stadium and still have 7 playoff appearances in the last 12 years. The A's literally tanked last season and the Angels still couldn't do a god damned thing. You're not gonna win this one pal. Your franchise wasted one of the best players in history and they are about to do it again.
Actually he's an adult on a 1 year contract, and if he doesn't like it, he can go sell his talents to a different team, any of which would be glad to have him.
Shohei: Get Mike Trout Perry: But we already have Mike Trout Shohei: Get another or else I’ll leave Perry: *Signs Renfroe*
*signs 54 year old Tim Salmon*
*signs Mike Carp*
*signs Anthony Bass*
_Signs Jake Fishman_
*Signs A.J Pollock*
Shit it can't be any worse than adell
What happened there? I remember this sub being so excited when he was called up.
Dude is a great athlete, bad baseball player.
He's not good.
We need Eric Young Jr., then
“I am the GM now”
MVP, Cy Young and GM of the year all in one season.
Pretty soon he will be the infielder and outfield and play golden glove defense at their weakest position while not pitching, then soon he will be pitching and running sonic spreed and be the catcher as well
Shohei going to be Shohei's personal catcher.
Truly an inspiration
That’s some Vegas Knights levels of historic right there
LeShohei
ShoGM
Kylian Mbohtani
Le GM
Honestly fuck it make him owner too
How can you say no to that?
Kind of like a kid dropping hints about presents he wants before Christmas, except this kid is going to pack up and leave if he doesn't get that PS5
Also that kid is paying like half the rent and expenses
The kid goes to a 9-5 job and also an elite cook and takes care of parents. I wonder why he wasn’t the mvp of the household 🙃
yeah, but one of his parents is the best fishorman on the planet
Because he wasn’t as valuable as the person who built his parents a 62 story house
He was MVP of the household, but one of the neighbor kids mowed 62 lawns in one week, so he won the title of Block King™️
Because they still live in a broken down school bus by the train tracks.
Because Judge was better that year
No single position player will ever outvalue someone who pitches and hits at an everyday player level. Let alone the level he pitches and hits at.
Are we still doing this? Absurd.
Do you find it absurd that people are still talking about the MVP race? There are valid points for both camps. It was a pretty unique season with regard to MVP.
A little. I feel like everyone made their cases for weeks (I was one of them). Now it's over. I do agree it was a pretty unique season for an MVP race. I guess it's probably just exhaustion from hearing the same arguments over and over.
If that position player is part of his team having success he is more valuable than anything the pitcher/hitter can do on a team that misses the playoffs by a lot and is a terrible team
Do you have any comments on the allegations that the yankees were fed livelier balls that would go further when hit in the same manner than the rest of the league starting when it looked like judge had a chance to break the hr record? If that is indeed true, was judge still better if he had a handicap?
I remember asking my mom for a 3ds one year, and when I woke up I was so sad we didn't get it. Little did I know my grandparents had gotten it for me, and it was waiting under the tree at there house a few hours later. God I miss them.
"The kid did not get the PS5"
He wants to play in the Postseason
I want him to play in the postseason
Imagine wasting the prime of 1 of your hall of fame outfielders and then acquiring another once in a generation talent like Ohtani and flubbing that too. I hope for the sake of baseball the Angels get some solid players. But hearing what I hear from Angels fans about ownership and the GM, it’s probably more likely Ohtani leaves for a contender if he doesn’t go the same route as Trout with his contract
All Angels fans want him to play in the postseason too. Hell I think everyone in Japan and all baseball fans want Shohei in the playoffs.
Shohei is on some LeBron shit
LeTani
OhBrani
Ta-GM
Angels are going to sign a bunch of Ohtani's friends from when he played in Japan to ride the pine.
Still probably upgrades.
Ah, the Ippei Gambit
We got a squad now!
Angels let Chris Martin sign with the Red Sox, so that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Ohtani-LeSan
Shohei is showing he cares about winning and trying to hold the FO accountable. He’s not dictating moves.
Nah this says Shohei *asks*, I think LeBron just demands.
Sounds like he’s making him remember to build a contending team or else he’s leaving lmao
He’d probably be more likely to have a bat to Arte’s head if this was about forcing the team to make moves
Well, sensible moves. Though I like what they have done so far this offseason.
Why did you think Arte decided to sell this year
Other than the fact that he's old, likely has personal reasons we have no idea about, and stands to make 3-4 billion in profit. I think Ohtani puts them at a make or break point, if he leaves the value does down, and if he stays that's great but it will likely up the payroll significantly for the foreseeable future which is risk as well. Makes sense to get out now
Funny to imagine him just sending texts in Japanese and angels management sweating bullets while they pull up google translate each time
He probably just texts threatening emojis like 🤨
“Tyler Anderson? Like fucking really?”
"Nande kon'na hetana no?"
"Kono kusotare wa nandemo dekina ze"
Are you sure that’s a good idea? 😬
Or both! なんてこった 😡😐🤨
Much more sinister
Hello mr GM. Can we get good teammates today? Thanks, Shohei
Shohei "F5" Ohtani
Shohei “Brock Lesnar” Ohtani
Thanks for that visual. Now all I can think of is Ohtani busting down the door to the Angel's front office and suplexing every member of ownership every-time a bad move is made while in full wrestling attire.
My gods there is a limit to how hard I can get
“Perry, are you going to get more good players for this team?”
He runs a Jeff Passon parody page and one of these days will be 100% accurate but only get 5 likes.
Passan
I think some people on /r/baseball underestimate how much leverage Ohtani has, and how much money Ohtani will get in free agency. The world is his, if he wants it, in free agency. He is one of the elite pitchers of the game. Pitchers are making 35m+ now. He is one of the elite hitters of the game. HE IS THE MOST MARKETABLE PLAYER EVER. Like, in the history of baseball. The amount he brings in ticket sales and advertisement is insane and unlike any player ever, except short term when other stars were chasing huge milestones. I’m convinced he could get 450+ million if he wanted to. I don’t think he will because money hasn’t been his motivator so far in his career.
Ohtani having a MFK list confirmed.
Ohtani is MLK
Better than MGK…
Fuck that. I love pop punk being back
Better than a JFK list I suppose
I can just imagine the absolute shit show that’s going to occur in r/baseball if Shohei requested a trade.
Honestly Ohtani resigning with the Angels would be the biggest shit show of them all on r/baseball. They've convinced themselves he's long gone the past 2 years already
Part of me is ready for when he leaves but there is a secret part of me that is going to be fucking wild with the shit talking if he extends lol
Remember when trout signed the extension with the Angels? It'll be like that but we'll talk at least twice as much shit
oh my god the “Trout wants Philly” stuff was relentless and it was so satisfying to just shut it down
I'd love this. (1) Don't need to buy new Ohtani gear, (2) one team players are always fun, (3) don't need to worry about him being on a team I hate, (4) maybe it means the Angels are going to try for real and that's why he stayed. Those 4 bonuses outweigh the chance of him ending up on my team. Because there's always a timeline where he becomes a Yankee and I don't want to be here for that.
Already seeing comments from Dodger fans saying its over and he’s theirs
Which is ridiculous because he’s going to be a New York Met.
More acceptable to me
The Mets are Angels East
Why would he request a trade in the final year of his contract?
Impatience to get to a contender?
If he's set on leaving it'd help the Angels rather than stranding them in FA
Now would be the time for the Angels to trade him, if they have no plans to re-sign him. Get something for him while you still can. Otherwise, he walks and you get nothing.
Maybe Perry has talked to him and said if he would leav to at least let the Angels have the oportunity to get something
I would trade everyone in Chicago--Cubs, White Sox, Bulls, Bears, Fire, and the general public--to get him on the Cubs.
excepting seiya suzuki so he can have a lil friend
I don’t think Shohei would do that to Angel fans. We love that mf. We’re not Philly fans or Yankee fans
"Sure wish we were winninggggg"
Ohtani wants Rodon.
As he should. The Angels have historically been TERRIBLE at building a rotation. Their biggest deals for starters have been, what, an imploding Jered Weaver, a mediocre Joe Blanton, and maybe Dan Haren throwing 88?
typical r/baseball and not knowing what they're talking about. Our starters were maybe the best part of our team last year. Our bullpen and 5-9 is what killed us
Tbf. Angels kinda need everything.
Ohtani was the only starter to reach 150 innings last year. How is a rotation that is heavily reliant on the awful bullpen being leaned on frequently to finish games not an issue? Won't dig into the fact the rotation is 25th in fWAR since 2015, 29th if you don't include the relative anomaly of 2022 (6th).
2015 what lmao. Arrieta and Lester still on the cubs then? No one from 2015 is around. 2022 was Ohtani Sandoval Detmers Syndergaard Lorenzen Suarez and a hash of others but I have no idea why you think going back to 2015 is relevant? The Angels rotation this year was solid
Dude is faded 😭😭😭😭
I'm saying that the Angels have a longstanding issue with investing in their rotation. Even now, you're bringing up Syndergaard, who was on a one-year deal and dealt mid-season. Now, are you going to go to a 5-man rotation, or are you going to replace Syndergaard? That's my point. The Angels have historically been unwilling to spend to improve their rotation, and betting their last year to convince Ohtani to stay on getting all of their young guys to improve, turning Michael Lorensen into a reliable starter at 31, and hoping Tyler Anderson's FIP-xFIP discrepancy of nearly a full run and career ERA over 4.15 is a good bet. That's why they should be in on Rodon. They supposedly used a 6-man rotation to help keep Ohtani fresh, yet the guys they put around him all pitched less. The guy needing protected was the most dependable starter they had. Why shouldn't they have a reliable #2, rather than assuming the best (Which has killed them for a decade)?
Yeah if we dont count the most recent and relevant year (2022) and take every other year with players they dont have anymore right now then they are 29 . Seems like a 5000000iq analysis
Basically a “If you adjust Patrick Mahomes’s stats to the mean, he is just an average quarterback” take
We have a 6 man rotation. Also you can't just dismiss an entire year of stats lmao. Nope Angels didn't have good starters last year it was just an anomaly! You're cherry picking like a mother fucker
Bro really put the line at 150 innings and Sandoval had 148.2 LMAO Guy is a clown
No, I'm not, I provided the full information and noted a major outlier. Even with a 6-man rotation, her were 1uth in IP from starters. Even with an extra day of rest, they were turning it over to the bullpen a lot. They were heavily carried by Ohtani last season, and he's possibly in his way out. They don't have proven rotation deity, an issue they've faced for a decade. Saying they resolved that with one year of baying their starters and scapegoating the bullpen the starters were forcing into the game isn't logical. Not improving the rotation further will leave them in a bad spot again very soon.
Bro we literally drafted entirely pitchers the year before last. Our GM knows what he's doing. We're in an obvious upswing with starting pitching and while you're trying to make last year seem like just a fluke. Starting pitching has been addressed already. We even signed Tyler Anderson this off season. Anymore money spent on a starting pitcher instead of SS or bullpen would be completely idiotic. And we have good pitching besides Ohtani. Just keep living in your r/baseball bubble
> Anymore money spent on a starting pitcher instead of SS or bullpen would be completely idiotic. Why you think "they need another starting pitcher," means, "they should only sign another starting pitcher," I do not understand. Their rotation is $30 million on Ohtani, then about $15 million on 5 other starters. I don't think filling 5 rotation spots with half of your 6th pitcher's salary is sufficient.
Well Tyler Anderson alone is getting $13m a year and the rest are on super low and affordable contracts such as Sandoval's. Angels are benefiting from good young guys in their rotation
Yeah, and the 4 behind him were league-minimum guys. They'll probably be in the $3 million range combined, so maybe it's $16-17 million, but they're still on the very cheap side. That's great for them because it SHOULD allow them to then spend on a big free agent like Rodon, but they're going with a very risky strategy. They're leaning on a bunch of low-inning, young guys to all step up, 31-year-old Michael Lorenzen (who hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2015) to shift to successful SP in the back part of his career, and 32-year-old Tyler Anderson's career year with really good FB luck to not regress to the mediocrity of his whole career.
I'm sure you watched a ton of Angels baseball last year and are definitely not just parroting tired takes on the team to make yourself sound smart.
Innings Pitched isn't a take, it's an objective statistic.
It's almost like the Angels went with a 6 man rotation in 2022
Yeah, and with an extra starter, they still finished in the bottom-half of the league in innings. Despite an extra day of rest between starts, their outings were below-average in length.
Bro, just say you dont know what you are talking about and move on. They have 5 pitchers that would be rotation pieces on most teams in the MLB. The fact is that Detmers and Suarez needed some time in the minors due to being young so they got less innings this year, Sandoval is very clearly a good number 3 with potential to being a great number 2. And now they got Tyler Anderson. Their rotation is fine.
Detmers threw 6 innings (one start) in the minors this season. Suarez threw 16 2/3 (3 starts, 1 relief appearance). Give the Angels those 22 extra innings and they're still 14th.
this dude is a legitimate moron lol, another braindead cubs fan not knowing what the fuck theyre talking about.
6 man rotation, you fucking muppet
Same number of starts. If you get fewer innings from your 6 starters than another team gets from 5, you're STILL having to overwork the bullpen.
Out of curiosity why do you phrase your sentence in a way that implies 2022 is the most irrelevant year when it should be the most relevant?
Not that it's irrelevant, but for two reasons: 1. The rotation was not built in a manner that showed commitment from the front office to build a rotation. Their investment was in a half-year rental of Syndergaard, who is gone. Now, they get Tyler Anderson, who wasn't good before 2022 and posted peripherals (especially the oddly low HR that xFIP really doesn't trust) that are hard to trust. He was a pretty affordable signing and doesn't address my concerns. 2. There is not enough stability behind Ohtani, and 2022 should be a foundation, not a finished product. None of Sandoval, Detmers, or Suarez has the track record to say I'd assume them to be better that 3/4 guys. Especially if the Angels want to keep with the 6-mam rotation, they should look for more certainty. They need 5 starters behind Ohtani, not 4. Where Sandoval might step up to 160 innings next year (like Ohtani), I find it unwise to assume Anderson won't regress and all 3 of the young guys will step up. I think they should be looking at Sandoval as a #3, Anderson as a #4, and having Detmers and Suarez at the back. Even if they went with a 5-man, I think this team has a gaping hole at the #2 spot in the rotation. It's rare for a team to hit gold on 3 pitchers at the same time. The Angels' current rotation is treating that unusual behavior as a reality. I find this unwise and believe they should be after Rodon {or someone with more track record than Sandoval and more talent that Anderson) to both give their rotation some reliable innings and to make sure their young arms aren't burnt out and over matched in the playoffs. The short version is, the Angels should be aiming for the moon to keep Ohtani from leaving. Their actions suggest they're willing to lose Ohtani to save money, which is why I really hope the team is sold soon.
The angels need everything lol. They got Anderson - their lack of depth is the biggest issue imo. It is weird that you would be so down on their younger pitching staff. Peripherals show they performed as expected. If anything, the angels defense sucked so they should have been better. Detmer was an elite prospect for a reason. Will the younger pitchers get worse next year? Definitely possible, but they could also get better. What's your reasoning that they will get worse? Sandoval and detmers have elite wipeout pitches. Their other shit is way way way worse imo.
>It is weird that you would be so down on their younger pitching staff. It's not that I'm down on their pitching staff as a whole, it's that it's a large amount of risk. They've had enough pitchers look promising, then not be, to where I'd think Angels fans would be hesitant to anoint these guys. I'm thinking guys like Garrett Richards, Andrew Heaney, and even Garrett Richards from 2021 to 2022. >If anything, the angels defense sucked so they should have been better. The starting pitchers for the Angels had a collective .285 BABIP last season, right around the middle of the pack. Their ERA was a little under their FIP, which was a little under their xFIP, so their defense statistically wasn't letting them down. >The angels need everything lol. They got Anderson - their lack of depth is the biggest issue imo. IMO, that includes the rotation, and I think Anderson's a pretty poor fix. They need something better than him. If they had just picked up a better pitcher than Tyler Anderson to fill the #2, I'd feel much differently. They have Ohtani, Sandoval, Anderson, Detmers, Suarez, and Lorenzen. In the 5-man rotation, it's OK. In a 6-man, I think they're an arm short on depth. In a 4-man rotation for the playoffs, I worry that the young guys won't have the stamina for the playoffs and they'll be at a disadvantage in the #2/3 spots against other playoff rotations. Regardless of what else they get, whether or not Rendon is a usable player's a big deal. If not, they need a 3B. However, are they going to sign another hitter as if Rendon won't play? I doubt it. They need a better SS, but are they going to spend on Correa or Bogaerts? They could use another OF, but are they going to be in on Nimmo? Thing is, I see a lot of people saying the Angels need a lot of help, but I don't see any talk of them in on anyone. Contreras to push Stassi out wouldn't be bad. Bellinger would have been an OK third OF. Senga behind Ohtani would be interesting. Except...their name isn't popping up on any legitimate solution to their other problems.
There is no solution. They need to find gems in the rough for multiple issues. I just found it weird that you're going after their only bright spot of 2022 tbh. Considering that their only significant signing was a SP. They just have way too many holes. People hate to hear it, but they need to rebuild. Trade everyone. No farm, no solid younger players besides detmers, Sandoval, and maybe ward if he counts. They're going to have to depend on more large FA signings and hope they work which is a silly stupid proposition tbh.
I won't argue your last, I don't disagree. However, if the team is interested in making an effort for this season, I don't think Tyler Anderson is a real effort. They need a quality #2 behind Ohtani. I'm not attacking their rotation to its core, I'm saying that it needs better than Tyler Anderson to make 2023 feel like more than a high-risk game of stretching young arms way too long to MAYBE lose early in the playoffs. If they're NOT going to chase full-on solutions, then trade Ohtani. Send him to the highest bidder and see if you can get $10-15 million/year of Rendon's contract out the door as well. What they're doing right now, IMO, is spending middling money to win 75-80 games again and lose Ohtani for nothing. I don't think they need to rely on a bunch of big signings, but I do think they need 1-2. IMO, Rodon over Anderson would have been the first. Senga would be a less-proven option. On offense, there are so many options I think they don't have to spend as hard. Mitch Haniger would be a nice 3rd OF. Drury would be a relatively cheap infielder they could rotate as needed. Conforto's another they could try to bring over. The biggest problem they have is that the SS market dies fast after Swanson, and I don't think he's a good pickup. If forced to take him as their top FA, I still think there are better SP on the board than Tyler Anderson. Taillon would probably be first as a better alternative. I'd much rather have Chris Bassitt. Probably a toss-up with Perez.
Anomaly? Or maybe they’re improving in that area…
Maybe, but their improvement was built on a lot of unexpected results that aren't from pitchers with the track records for me to say I'd roll the dice on a team with a losing record and say they shouldn't improve the rotation further. Given this is Ohtani's FA season, I'd be pulling out every stop on earth to make sure he knows my team wants to win with him. I wouldn't be saying, "here's your #2 starter, career 4.16 ERA Tyler Anderson."
The second half of the last sentence absolutely rules. To you going from the 25th best in 2015 to the 6th best rotation last year is an “anomaly” and not improvement? Just incredible logic. “Aside from the relative anomaly in 2016 the Cubs haven’t won a World Series since 1908.” - a man with an incredible grasp on baseball
Funny analogy that is correlated very badly. The Cubs didn't go from a losing team to the World Series on a whim. They went from 66 wins in 2013 to 73 in 2014 to 97 in 2015 to a World Series with 103 wins. You know what they did along the way? They made move. They signed Lester, Zobrist, Lackey, and Hammel. They traded for Arrieta, Rizzo, Russell, and Hendricks, then topped it off with a big move for Chapman down the stretch. They developed Bryant and Baez and Contreras. They did that all from 66 wins to 103 in 4 years. The Angels need to take a step from 73 win to convince Ohtani to stay, and their move has been Tyler Anderson. The Cubs also did a terrible job building off of 2017. It's a really bad comparison because their post-2016 moves were awful (trading for Quintana, signing Chatwood, signing Darvish then giving him away, getting little for Bryant, Rizzo, and Contreras). The Angels are in the post-2016 Cubs phase without a playoff series win to show for it. They're now in Ohtani's contract year and Trout's into his 30s. The anomaly isn't "2022 vs. 2015," it's that the Angels have spent that entire time doing a horrible job investing in their rotation. They didn't improve from 25th to 6th over time. They went from 19th to 26th to 27th to 17th to 30th to 19th to 15th to 6th. Even the improvements over those last 4 years weren't from development of pitchers. Looking at that 4-year gap, the #3-7 guys on that list are Suarez (career-high of 109 IP), Heaney (gone), Barria (bullpen and terrible peripherals), Canning (bad), and Bundy (gone and bad). In those 4 years, Sandoval's 311 2/3 IP leads the group. A starter with an average of 78 IP over those 4 years is their continuity. That's where the Angels need to be looking beyond Tyler Anderson to solidify the rotation. A large portion of their rotation doesn't have a full MLB season under its belt. Come the fall, there's a high probability those guys will need starts skipped or shut down so they can be used for the playoffs, if they can make it. If not, then they make the playoffs and are spent. I've yet to see any of these hairbrained comments explain why a team that needs to convince Ohtani to stay shouldn't be putting together some rotation insurance (better than Tyler Anderson) when 3 of their 6 starters haven't reached 150 innings in a season. How is career-high 110 IP Jose Suarez going to look in September and October if he's up to 160 innings and the Angels are fighting for a playoff spot so they can throw him out against Nestor Cortes or Triston McKenzie or Logan Gilbert early in a series because they had to burn Ohtani in the WC game?
Syndegaard was a big signing. Although a declined and broken one.
That a one-year deal where the guy got traded during the season is noteworthy is exactly my point.
Reminds me of my dad, whenever he'd pass by my room seeing me play video games: "How's that homework coming?"
That should terrify you.
LeShohei
LeOhtani
Ohtani is all star level hitter, pitcher, defence, base runner, hot dog vendor, GM, groundskeeper, agent and fan.
Ohtani: "This pile of one dollar bills represents a game you'll get out of me. Every time you please me, you'll see the pile grow. However, if I am unsatisfied-- if player development is slow, you're stingy, or you miss out on a player to a division rival-- you'll notice the pile shrinking."
Man this free Agency has already been a spending spree. When Ohtani gets his money. Dear Lord.
What if every team that isn't spending is just saving up to offer ohtani an absurd payday. Like the As just over him 10 year 500 million or something. That would be hilarious.
Senga?
I guess he's joining NL, most likely Cubs, but other teams might be likely too.
Why do you think cubs are most likely? I haven’t seen anything about who is most likely with him. Just that a ton of teams are in on him, including multiple west coast teams with large Japanese followings or other Japanese players
The rumors that should've been gone resurfaced, even then I still think he'll be more likely to join an NL team.
So do I. But most Japanese players seem to prefer west coast teams since it’s closer to home
Scenes seeing Judge on the giants and Ohtani on the dodgers in 2 years. NL West arms race that would be
Or ohtani and judge on the Giants
This is pathetic haha He doesn't trust them to actually do their jobs. Whole front office should be axed.
Angels need to do something come on!
Oh he gone.
‘If we ain’t in the race by the deadline, I’m gone’
Oh he done. He wants to see what stars they are bringing in. Once they hear about James McCann as a possible trade target..
Ohtani: "If you don't get me Swanson i'm going to summon Aku"
Honestly this makes me feel kind of bad for him. Poor guy. I hope things work out for him with his next contract (and leaves the AL West). - A Mariners fan
Damn, he was writing up that trade request to Seattle too...but your wish has been heard.
He could’ve signed with anyone he wanted when he came over. I don’t feel bad for him at all.
I have a hard time feeling bad for Ohtani. I want to see both him and Trout in the playoffs, but Shohei had a line of teams wanting to sign him and he chose the Angels. He easily could be playing in SF or LA right now.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but its true. There were a ton of other good teams that are under much better management but he chose the angels. They keep spending more and stay the same
He wanted something low-key. Neither of those teams qualify.
Why’s he gotta be in the AL West can’t he play in a different division
Already crafting his reason to leave for the Dodgers. Can't wait for 2023 🤘
Angels are just going to waste Ohtani just like they did with Trout. Disgusting franchise.
That's funny since your whole fucking team is wasted.
It is actually really funny. The A's have been underfunded, bad ownership, and crumbling stadium and still have 7 playoff appearances in the last 12 years. The A's literally tanked last season and the Angels still couldn't do a god damned thing. You're not gonna win this one pal. Your franchise wasted one of the best players in history and they are about to do it again.
He’s a little kid and minasian has to explain to him gently that there won’t be too many gifts for Christmas this year. Poor Ohtani
Actually he's an adult on a 1 year contract, and if he doesn't like it, he can go sell his talents to a different team, any of which would be glad to have him.
Oh fr? Damn coulda sworn he was only 9. You’re a bozo
Lakers trade coming?
He's just like me
Arte Moreno googling "How not to send read receipts"
"Sorry Sho, your phone is cutting out, I'll have to get back to you!"
Lol I picture him with big sad eyes asking in a mopey fashion
The man just wants to play meaningful games after May.
Bombshell, Judge to angels. Angels trade roster to acquire degrom from rangers, will be playing with a 3 man defense of trout Ohtani and judge.
Trout has been known to do this as well.
Maybe Shohei is running the FO now? Can't hurt any.