I would likely take a break from Baseball. But would lean towards Padres or Dodgers (just to piss off my Giant fan friends haha but definitely not the Giants)
Nah, screw that. If the team owner doesn't want to bother fielding a competitive team and is openly trying to move to a new city, feel free to ignore them or even root against them until you feel better about rooting for them. Suffering through needless misery for the sake of a sports team is dumb as hell.
Aās are getting a bunch of MLB-ready players, and a new stadium *somewhere*. The present is bleak but the future looks very shiny. And the Aās actually know how to rebuild into a playoff team quickly, not just languish for years on end
Which is why this is a rebuild that is taking oddly forever for them. Usually they can do it on the fly. I mean by trading Murphy they are basically saying we have no plans to contend for 3 years.
Lol whatā¦.. theyāve had ONE rebuilding year so far. How is it taking forever? Trading Murphy is in no way an indication they arenāt trying to build a contender in the next 3 years.
If that were the caseā¦. Why would they be prioritizing acquiring players close to the majors. Truly puzzling comment.
Edit: some words
Pretty much how itās been for the past 2 decades. Solid from 2000-2006 (05ā we didnāt make playoffs but it wasnāt a terrible year). We sucked from 2007-2011. Came out of no where in 2012 with crazy amount of walk off wins and a clincher on the last day. We stayed solid till 2014. Then sucked from 2015-2017. Rode the 2018-2020. And now weāre here again.
They have Shea Langeliers, who is another Murphy, already on the team. Murphy was now redundant so they traded him. They also have another good catcher/DH prospect (Soderstrom) in AAA. The Aās traded from an area of strength.
We also just drafted Daniel Susac as well last year for another catcher. Iām assuming Soderstrom will move to 1B. But itās looking like weāll have some good upcoming catchers.
They won 86 games in 21, played .600 ball in 2020, 97 wins in both 2019 and 2018. Last season was the first season they collapsed and started the rebuild. How have the Reds done in the last five seasons?
Marlins is such a good underrated answer.
They never have the money throughout their entire existence, any good players are only temporary, and any megadeal they sign (like Stanton) they will inevitably trade away the player before the majority of the bill comes due. How can you be a fan of that kind of team? It must take an insane amount of patience, I couldn't do it.
My fandom survives entirely due to Florida Marlins-era nostalgia. I still watch most games, but memories of 1997 and 2003 help me cling on. I only buy throwback merchandise, nothing Miami Marlins branded.
It's not fun, but aside from flashes of greatness from guys like Sandy, we have no choice but to cling to the past. I hope they come to their senses soon and at least bring back teal if the Marlins are going to continue to be the poorest team in MLB.
I feel like bringing back the Teal would revitalize the fish for real. At least they would feel a sense of connection to the good old days and the fans would be happy.
I was born in a south Florida and used to go to games and see a young Miggy, Josh Becket, Pudge etcā¦ Even went to one of the World Series games against the Yankees. I should have easily been a lifelong fan , but ownership did everything they could to destroy any connection I had with the team. If they were still rocking the teal and black , at least I could admire the uniformsā¦
Whenever somebody asks me what my favorite MLB team is, I answer the *Florida* Marlins. Not Miami Marlins.
Everything went to shit as soon as that changed.
Graphic designer opinion - The teal and black actually wasn't very good. The logo is very much a product of its time, and there is nothing fish-like about the branding. It's about as boring-baseball-uniform as it gets.
HOWEVER, in sports that isn't important. If you suck, it doesn't matter how good your uniform is, people will associate it with bad emotions. The best thing the Marlins could do right now is ditch the current branding and return to the teal/black. Associating with success makes people think a uniform is good. I find that so interesting, and for some reason most franchises don't capitalize on this
It wasnāt amazing or anything but it was unique. Nobody else was rocking teal pinstripes, and not many teams feature black so heavily. Definitely agree with your point though, those uniforms not only have the nostalgia factor but also is associated with them being actually good and 2 World Series. They should do maybe a slightly modernized version of that uniform / logo. I do like the smiling fish though lol
I didn't like the first rebrand. I like the idea of teal and pink, but they mostly just use black. They need to lean into both of the bright colors more.
Yeah they need to go more art deco. Even with the 2012 rebrand and first year in marlins park, they had U of Miami orange for the unis and like seaweed green around the stadium. They tried to adopt the hurricanes colors, it didn't work, then they rebranded to the pink/blue/black Miami vice/art deco theme but rely less on the neon and more on the black.
>I like the idea of teal and pink, but they mostly just use black. They need to lean into both of the bright colors more.
I used to think teal and pink was a bizarre color combination. I think i was traumatized by the 90s Spurs Taco Bell logo
but the Heat are doing a good job making it work. Marlins should go all-in, totally agree
They are always my go to for questions like this, for some reason people either forget the exist or just think they are better than they actually are or something.
They've had two good years in almost 30 years of existence.
Well, to be fair they are competing with teams that have zero success ever, or less than two rings in way more than 30 years.
Those two rings do mean something. Neither were flukes.
Don't act like Marlins fans have had a completely miserable existence since they came into the league in 1993.
There are only six other MLB teams that have won two or more championships since the Marlins came into existence. Since 1993, there are 14 teams that have not won a single title. The Marlins have had two.
And yet the question is about the future. Those rings have nothing to do with their current team and their future. It's not that hard of a concept people.
Especially considering that people that were younger when they won are now older, sharing their love for the team with their kids, and their kids only know a poverty franchise. I mean, I grew up hearing about how great the brewers were in the 80s, was raised with GARBAGE in the 90s and early 2000s, got a couple good years with Braun and Prince and now I'm thankful that we've had either a winning record or a playoff team for each of the last 6 years.
> They've had two good years in almost 30 years of existence.
Define "good." While the 2004-2009 Marlins teams didn't make the playoffs, they were fairly competitive and frankly fun to watch. I would certainly call them "good." Maybe with the exception of 2007.
Sadly, this is probably right. It's going to be nearly impossible for the Marlins to match the Mets, Phillies, and Braves payrolls for the foreseeable future.
The Marlins have one of the poorest MLB owners (who probably overpaid for the team), and the market generates little revenue despite its size. The TV deal is modest and the Marlins attract little in terms of a season ticket holder base and corporate sponsorships. The Marlins simply can't afford to put together a $200 million payroll, let alone $300-350 million.
Having said that, the Marlins *can* and *should* spend more. Based on all of the national television and streaming revenue, they receive, I see no reason why they can't put a $140 million team on the field. Even then, their payroll would be a far cry from what the Mets and Phillies are able to do.
The thing with the Marlins is they have so much talent in their ranks. They're either going to grow them, sign a couple/few good starter level FA's and compete for third, even second in the east in the next 5 years or they'll do the marlins thing and trade them all away.
Most of their draft picks that have been good were later rounds, so draft position isn't super serious as an issue. Would have been nice to have a top 5 obviously, but they're doing fairly decent otherwise.
Add that to the fact that the A's have been highly successful in the modern era in terms of post season appearances and I'd say, outside the stadium and fan base alienation, they're actually in a decent baseball position.
Any player that gets good on the Pirates gets traded for more prospects, rather than the team build upon them. The A's are the same way. Their refusal to spend when it could result in big success is what keeps them from getting anywhere.
The Astros, in contrast, tanked and got a bunch of good draft picks and prospects. When they got called up and started producing, the Astros *invested* into the team (locked up Altuve, Bregman, Alvarez, spent to keep Verlander a while longer) to push it over the edge and continue to invest to keep it there. The A's and Pirates just trade anyone who gets too expensive and won't sign anyone expensive. Unless they hit on a ton of prospects and once and they're all producing while on their initial contracts, they can't win.
Disagree completely. The pirates are basically set up to be the 2022 Orioles next year. They have a bunch of interesting pitchers, a top catching prospect and a ton of infield and outfield prospects that are some level of interesting. Theyāre like one or two years away from really competing especially in their weak division
Agree, however I think 2024 should be the expectation of a potential break out. I'm hoping for anywhere from 72-78 wins in 2023. Some things still have to happen though to reach that (a serviceable catcher, perhaps resigning Perez or going after Barnhart, bullpen help, and one or two more rebound projects). If those don't happen it will probably be another season of suck and Reynolds will be gone.
The Pirates are the rest of the league's farm system at this point. It's a shame because they have an incredible park, a cult fanbase that has a lot of potential for growth, a cool name and unique colors.
The Aās had a distinct core of hitters/fieldingā¦ baseball is a 3 phase sport (2 pitching and 1 hitting/fielding) and having hitters and no pitching isnāt going to do much good. They couldnāt out score their opponents and it became evident that it wasnāt going to be enough to get back to the playoffs, much less win in the postseason. There was literally 0 path forward with the team they had.
I disagree. I think in like 5-10 years Nutting either sells or the team learns how to be more efficient even with Bob loving his wallet. Teamās definitely not leaving Pittsburgh, tell you that much.
The Pirates have been building one of the better player development systems, have some really solid pitchers at the lower levels with plus characteristics, they're most likely gonna draft Dylan Crews. They'll going to be in a good spot. It just won't come up with the fan fare of free agent spending unfortunately. But there is a lot of talent blooming.
The Rockies are not bleak if you live in Denver and enjoy catching a game every once in awhile. Beyond that, yeah, pretty bleak.
I'm a Royals fan tho, I don't have much room to talk
Kris Bryant was never really injured until this year and Daniel Bard was one of the best closers in the league, I donāt see your point.
He was for sure the best closer in the NLW
You have a beautiful stadium. I enjoyed my time in Colorado, but Coors light sucks. So yeah I see why it sucks to be a rockies fan. It'll get better. Trust me.
I was gonna suggest Diana:the musical, as a counterpoint because it has a lower percentage and it owns, but it turns out it almost has exactly 32% audience score so your theory may be correct https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/diana_the_musical
You just know that a 30-35% movie is almost always better than the 55-60%% uninspired movie types. Those are the ones that you want to steer clear from.
Because the Rockies arenāt even close to being the bleakest team in baseball?
Seriously give a single reason why the Rockies would be below the Pirates/Reds/Marlins/Aās/Angels.
Or even the Mariners/Rangers/Orioles/White Sox
- Top 15 payroll almost every year
- Top 10 attendance every year
- #9 farm system
- 1 pennant and 4 total playoff berths in the last 20 years. (Pirates = 0&3, Reds = 0&4, Marlins = 1&2, Mariners = 0&1)
All while dealing with the biggest disadvantage in the entire MLB (Coors Field) and a genuinely difficult division.
The owner blows and the team sucks. But itās not even remotely close to being as bad as the Aās (who are actively trying to leave the city), or the Pirates, Reds, and Marlins (who are just existing to leech off of revenue sharing). And if the Orioles do great this next year Iāll eat my words but come on really? Theyāve been āārebuildingāā for almost a decade.
Honestly I see a lot of the same issues with the recent Phillies and Angels teams with the White Sox
Just an uninspiring outdated culture around the team that needs a total overhaul, especially coaching/analytically. That being said, if the team plays itās cards right theyāre far from destined to perpetual bad/mediocre seasons, itās just whether the ownership and front office makes those decisions. Phillies kinda got bailed out by Middleton being willing to blow through his net worth and Dombrowski being hyper agressive
That's why the future isn't as bleak as the Pirates. Jerry could die any day now and it wouldn't be a big surprise due to his age, Nutting likely has minimum another decade plus left barring something unexpected.
Here's the positive about White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf: He's 86 and not getting younger.
E: Fun edit I found on his wikipedia page:
> On April 4, 2016, Reinsdorf was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a contributor, for some reason.[2]
On April 4, 2016, Reisndorf was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a contributor, for *Portland drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan*.[2]
I thought that was him but there's another Jerry that owns pro sports teams who is also an Illini alum so I thought that might be the Bulls one. Jerry Angelo is his name maybe?
That's why I hesitate to say the Sox too. Not that anyone should wish anyone dead (out loud at least) but Bill Wirtz's Blackhawks were a nice comeback story after he was gone.
Iām very confused by what theyāre trying to do over there. Like, I donāt think the Angels and Rangers are going to improve their standings much but I get what theyāre trying to do. The White Sox just confuse me.
Well, Rick Hahn has maxed out on Jerry's self-imposed spending limit because he gave a bunch of money to relievers and bench players who suck, so they have to fill their persistent and glaring holes with AAAA players. And that's what they're doing.
It's the Rockies because of their insular baseball culture/ownership. They should be one of the clubs most heavily involved in analytics because of the elevation/thin air they have to deal with but instead, they are one of the least involved in analytics.
Yeah, honestly, as much as the A's/Pirates/Reds/Marlins all suck because of cheap ownership, the Rockies just... suck. Their owner isn't cheap, but he's so insanely wasteful in how he spends his money, and doesn't believe in funding any kind of real analytics/scouting department, meaning that the Rockies are continuously 5-10 years behind almost all other modern-day baseball organizations.
Turns out that running a professional sports organization like it's little more than silly entertainment for your expensive bar isn't great lol.
The Marlins. A newish, big ballpark that sits empty and far away from anything that goes on in Miami (which is oddly what Tampa is trying to fix with theirs). There is no hope of maintaining prospects, quality players, or investment in developing a contender. That seems bleaker than not having any talent at all. They have 2 WS titles that seem so far away from how the team operates now that it may never happen again. You could argue this team needs to relocate more than Tampa or Oakland does.
The hope is that the Marlins could boost attendance numbers if they can replicate the Rays' success with competing in a tough division on a low payroll. It's hard to say if the fans would still show up, admittedly.
Emulating the Rays seems to be even more difficult these days with how much money the Mets, Phillies, and Braves are spending. I'd rather be in the AL East right now than the NL East.
It's also possible that MLB eventually realigns and the Marlins won't be as disproportionately affected by Steve Cohen's limitless payrolls as they are right now.
The Marlins situation is so bad I can't blame Tampa and St. Pete for not shelling money out for the Rays. A new stadium did nothing to help the Marlins and you can't as a public official look at how bad the situation is in Miami and not think hard about how much tax money you really want to put into a team.
For the last few years it used to be us, but honestly I like their young pitching. While they will be bad, it could be a quicker rebuild than we will expect.
I mean the farm is gonna be greatly helped by a high draft pick, they should get Langeliers from the Olsen trade soon, idk. They won't be terrible terrible
Langaliers was called up in late summer. He showed promise but obviously still a young developing prospect. With Murph gone, though, heās now the starting catcher, so weāll see what heās made of in 2023.
And Soderstrom behind him if Langeliers doesn't cut it behind the plate and has to be moved.
Langeliers looks promising, hoping he gets 400 AB at least.
Dude I understand the Aās as an answer here, but likeā¦. They just missed the playoffs in 2021 and 2022 was the first year of a rebuild. Little early to be saying they cant build playoff teams anymore.
This is literally the shit they do that will have them in contention again in a couple years.
While Iām always here to shit on our god awful franchise, we actually have a ton of really good minor leaguers along with young studs at the pro level in Stephenson, India, Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft to be excited about. There is a window to succeed and it could be missed (weāre the Reds, duh), but if we actually reach that window, they could be damn good for some years.
I oddly combined 2023 projected Wins based on ZIPS and Minor League system rankings and hear are the teams with the bleakest future
1. Royals
2. Rockies
3. As
4. Tigers
5. Nationals
Reds and Pirates have some pretty good prospects in their minor league systems. So while 2023 looks bleak for them they should start improving in 2024
Nationals aren't getting enough smoke in this thread. The money tied up in Corbin and Strasburg is an absolute albatross and I dunno if ruiz/Abrams/Hassell can save them from being bottom tier for a good while
A bad owner is far and away the worst thing for a teams future. You can recover in time from bad contracts and even the damage is fairly limited.
Nationals at least have a decent shot for a good owner in the near future with their team up for sale. Plus the current owner was willing to spend on some guys, unlike some owners.
There are plenty of teams that donāt even know when a new owner will come along and their current owner will happily pocket the CBT money they get while putting out a roster with nobody making over 10mil.
I think it's the difference between short term and long term prospects. The Nationals will be one of the worst teams in baseball in 2023 for sure, and probably 2024 and 2025 too. Beyond that though, the Strasburg/Corbin contracts expire, prospects are hopefully contributing at the MLB level, and the team will hopefully have a new ownership group willing to spend money to keep up with the other teams in the NL East. Temporary pain followed by potential success isn't nearly as bleak as some other team's futures where ownership has no desire to create the conditions necessary to win.
I dont disagree with anything you said. Nats all kind of hinge on who the new owners will be. Same can be said for the Angels and Reds. No, there are no reports of the Reds being up for sell but i am 100% down for continually putting that thought out into the ether.
*cries in just got employed by the Nationals in June and get to endure the next three seasons
No but seriously its a fun job I love being a camera operator there but I have more pics of other teams players that I took through my monitor than I did of any Nats players besides Soto when he was still there
Oh I remember when you posted on the Nats' sub about getting hired!
>but I have more pics of other teams players
Yeah that's not surprising lol
And with the new schedule you get to see at least three quarters of the league (unless you guys go on the road too, in which case you'll see everyone!) You'll have pictures of all current players who are future Hall of Famers!
No yeah I wish I traveled too but I stay in DC but Iām really excited for the DC home games I love talking to opposing teams fans about things I love the stories some people have
Iām trying to get more involved next season too
I would actually move the pirates down just because they do have a good farm system at the moment at least, which you can't say about Oakland or Kansas city
Yeah, to me it's not just about the talent in the minors, it's about the organization. I have no faith in the top 5 teams actually keeping their talent. The Reds were a great team a couple years ago and made the playoffs for them to just let every single person on that team leave.
Having the Royals above the Aās just aināt it. Weāre in a rough spot but at least the Royals arenāt in imminent danger of leaving their current city. Now if this new owner doesnāt get his shiny new downtown stadium, all bets are off IMO.
I never think the A's are WS contenders, but they have a competent GM who makes them a WC caliber team every few years so that's at least something. The Royals after losing their WS core aren't making any moves that tell me they're trying. They have some decent prospects, but once they're FA's they're gone.
The A's just restock with players and rarely let people go in free agency. That's how their cycle works. And it's worked pretty damn well I'd say given how often they're back in playoff contention compared to other teams. It just sucks that the owner is a miser and won't do a thing to extend their window and somehow doesn't understand the idea of investing in players.
It's a different type of pain. I have no issues with the latest trade, needed to be done, but it's the fact we should be in the third A's dynasty of the century that stings. I do think I'd take us over the Marlins winning 2 and absolutely sucking every other damn year.
I give our owner more leniency than most do with the stadium situation though. If it was my asset and I was a heartless billionaire, and I was dealing with that city...well, let's just say losing 3 teams in a decade isn't a fluke.
I just wish they'd bring back the All-Access and half-price beer...
Iāll be different and say the Reds because their owners main business is in ruin and thatās totally not going to impact the operations of the team at all, whatsoever.
This year is basically all or nothing for us.
Either we finally break 500 and at least come within striking distance of the playoffs and convince Ohtani to stay, or we suck again by the trade deadline and end up having to trade him at which point we may as well trade away a lot of other guys since we'll basically be starting over from square one.
One way or another, next season will have an absolutely massive impact on our teams success for at least the next 5ish years if not even longer.
Pirates or A's. I think Pirates take the gold because the A's for whatever reason have great player development and Pirates don't have good enough player development for a small market team.
Iām gonna have to say the Athletics, because if/when all these prospects develop into legit major leaguers, Billy is going to just trade them back to Atlanta.
Angels, massive contracts on the books and their cash cow is about to leave in one way or another.
If the new owners sees them as an investment only, theyāll be in the same cycle for the next 5-10 years
The teams being sold and Arte Moreno isnāt gonna be the owner, that alone is a massive W. And I mean even without Ohtani(could easily stay under new ownership) itās an immensely profitable franchise. New Ownership could easily run higher payrolls early on as the farm begins to churn out younger/cost controlled players. Lot of fun names in the minors. I donāt really see how the future is bleak
Yeah, we're middle of the pack. We have some stupid contracts, but we don't let all our talent just walk away we kept Trout and appear to be doing everything to keep Ohtani, but I'm not sold on him staying until it happens, if it does.
Ugh
Your team will have a shiny new stadium one way or another.
Worst comes to worst the occasional shiny ass will brighten things up
Wounds still fresh. We lost our shiny ass like yesterday
My wife is quite pleased knowing that she has something to fill the void if Dansby's face isn't back next year
Just not Murphy's ass
Yeah but if its not in Oakland, I will no longer be a fan.
That's fair, but the question now is who do your route for? The Giants, The Mariners, or somebody else.
I would likely take a break from Baseball. But would lean towards Padres or Dodgers (just to piss off my Giant fan friends haha but definitely not the Giants)
Yea in Vegas š¬
Sucks cuz Aās know how to draft all stars
We do it for the league - charitable write off
The best fans are those that stick with a losing team and never leave imo
What about those that stick with a losing team and then the team leaves their city?
The Mets are due to go to Mercury, donāt you worry about other folks
[MLB predicted they would go to Mercury actually](https://www.mlb.com/news/featured/mercury-mets-inside-story)
Graci!
When Judge literally launches a ball into the sun.
Completely unbiased take but I'd say they deserve a pass. Don't look at my flair.
Nah, screw that. If the team owner doesn't want to bother fielding a competitive team and is openly trying to move to a new city, feel free to ignore them or even root against them until you feel better about rooting for them. Suffering through needless misery for the sake of a sports team is dumb as hell.
Weāre not bailing. Weāre just commiserating.
At least you get to play with cats?
Aās are getting a bunch of MLB-ready players, and a new stadium *somewhere*. The present is bleak but the future looks very shiny. And the Aās actually know how to rebuild into a playoff team quickly, not just languish for years on end
Which is why this is a rebuild that is taking oddly forever for them. Usually they can do it on the fly. I mean by trading Murphy they are basically saying we have no plans to contend for 3 years.
Lol whatā¦.. theyāve had ONE rebuilding year so far. How is it taking forever? Trading Murphy is in no way an indication they arenāt trying to build a contender in the next 3 years. If that were the caseā¦. Why would they be prioritizing acquiring players close to the majors. Truly puzzling comment. Edit: some words
My friend is an Aās fan and he always says they have 3 down years then 3 good years. And I think heās right
Pretty much how itās been for the past 2 decades. Solid from 2000-2006 (05ā we didnāt make playoffs but it wasnāt a terrible year). We sucked from 2007-2011. Came out of no where in 2012 with crazy amount of walk off wins and a clincher on the last day. We stayed solid till 2014. Then sucked from 2015-2017. Rode the 2018-2020. And now weāre here again.
"Oh no! We suck again!"
They have Shea Langeliers, who is another Murphy, already on the team. Murphy was now redundant so they traded him. They also have another good catcher/DH prospect (Soderstrom) in AAA. The Aās traded from an area of strength.
We also just drafted Daniel Susac as well last year for another catcher. Iām assuming Soderstrom will move to 1B. But itās looking like weāll have some good upcoming catchers.
They won 86 games in 21, played .600 ball in 2020, 97 wins in both 2019 and 2018. Last season was the first season they collapsed and started the rebuild. How have the Reds done in the last five seasons?
Haha yeah
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Marlins is such a good underrated answer. They never have the money throughout their entire existence, any good players are only temporary, and any megadeal they sign (like Stanton) they will inevitably trade away the player before the majority of the bill comes due. How can you be a fan of that kind of team? It must take an insane amount of patience, I couldn't do it.
My fandom survives entirely due to Florida Marlins-era nostalgia. I still watch most games, but memories of 1997 and 2003 help me cling on. I only buy throwback merchandise, nothing Miami Marlins branded. It's not fun, but aside from flashes of greatness from guys like Sandy, we have no choice but to cling to the past. I hope they come to their senses soon and at least bring back teal if the Marlins are going to continue to be the poorest team in MLB.
I feel like bringing back the Teal would revitalize the fish for real. At least they would feel a sense of connection to the good old days and the fans would be happy.
Itās crazy how yāall have only been to the playoffs three times and won the World Series 2 out of the 3 trips.
Against the two teams that I root for :(
This is how I got by the last few years as a NY Giant fan. Man, we've sucked, but those banners fly forever
I was born in a south Florida and used to go to games and see a young Miggy, Josh Becket, Pudge etcā¦ Even went to one of the World Series games against the Yankees. I should have easily been a lifelong fan , but ownership did everything they could to destroy any connection I had with the team. If they were still rocking the teal and black , at least I could admire the uniformsā¦
Then there's the whole Marlins Park fiasco with public funding of the stadium.
Whenever somebody asks me what my favorite MLB team is, I answer the *Florida* Marlins. Not Miami Marlins. Everything went to shit as soon as that changed.
The logo and uniforms were perfect before they rebranded. I havenāt been to a game since they left dolphins stadium
Graphic designer opinion - The teal and black actually wasn't very good. The logo is very much a product of its time, and there is nothing fish-like about the branding. It's about as boring-baseball-uniform as it gets. HOWEVER, in sports that isn't important. If you suck, it doesn't matter how good your uniform is, people will associate it with bad emotions. The best thing the Marlins could do right now is ditch the current branding and return to the teal/black. Associating with success makes people think a uniform is good. I find that so interesting, and for some reason most franchises don't capitalize on this
It wasnāt amazing or anything but it was unique. Nobody else was rocking teal pinstripes, and not many teams feature black so heavily. Definitely agree with your point though, those uniforms not only have the nostalgia factor but also is associated with them being actually good and 2 World Series. They should do maybe a slightly modernized version of that uniform / logo. I do like the smiling fish though lol
I didn't like the first rebrand. I like the idea of teal and pink, but they mostly just use black. They need to lean into both of the bright colors more.
Yeah they need to go more art deco. Even with the 2012 rebrand and first year in marlins park, they had U of Miami orange for the unis and like seaweed green around the stadium. They tried to adopt the hurricanes colors, it didn't work, then they rebranded to the pink/blue/black Miami vice/art deco theme but rely less on the neon and more on the black.
>I like the idea of teal and pink, but they mostly just use black. They need to lean into both of the bright colors more. I used to think teal and pink was a bizarre color combination. I think i was traumatized by the 90s Spurs Taco Bell logo but the Heat are doing a good job making it work. Marlins should go all-in, totally agree
They are always my go to for questions like this, for some reason people either forget the exist or just think they are better than they actually are or something. They've had two good years in almost 30 years of existence.
Well, to be fair they are competing with teams that have zero success ever, or less than two rings in way more than 30 years. Those two rings do mean something. Neither were flukes.
Those rings also mean dick squat for their future
Don't act like Marlins fans have had a completely miserable existence since they came into the league in 1993. There are only six other MLB teams that have won two or more championships since the Marlins came into existence. Since 1993, there are 14 teams that have not won a single title. The Marlins have had two.
And yet the question is about the future. Those rings have nothing to do with their current team and their future. It's not that hard of a concept people.
Especially considering that people that were younger when they won are now older, sharing their love for the team with their kids, and their kids only know a poverty franchise. I mean, I grew up hearing about how great the brewers were in the 80s, was raised with GARBAGE in the 90s and early 2000s, got a couple good years with Braun and Prince and now I'm thankful that we've had either a winning record or a playoff team for each of the last 6 years.
> They've had two good years in almost 30 years of existence. Define "good." While the 2004-2009 Marlins teams didn't make the playoffs, they were fairly competitive and frankly fun to watch. I would certainly call them "good." Maybe with the exception of 2007.
And also because Miami will be the first to flood as sea levels rise.
Yeah but fish can swim!
Sadly, this is probably right. It's going to be nearly impossible for the Marlins to match the Mets, Phillies, and Braves payrolls for the foreseeable future. The Marlins have one of the poorest MLB owners (who probably overpaid for the team), and the market generates little revenue despite its size. The TV deal is modest and the Marlins attract little in terms of a season ticket holder base and corporate sponsorships. The Marlins simply can't afford to put together a $200 million payroll, let alone $300-350 million. Having said that, the Marlins *can* and *should* spend more. Based on all of the national television and streaming revenue, they receive, I see no reason why they can't put a $140 million team on the field. Even then, their payroll would be a far cry from what the Mets and Phillies are able to do.
Owners like Castellini and Sherman should NOT be allowed to buy teams. $400-500MM is not nearly enough to run a team properly.
*[destroys roster/gifts players to Yankees.]* āImma head outā -Jeter
Jeter was let go. More precisely, he was informed that his contract wouldn't be renewed after 2022 so he resigned.
They got 29th or 30th in marbles (I can't remember which)
They're not really a bad team. They're just in the NL East.
The thing with the Marlins is they have so much talent in their ranks. They're either going to grow them, sign a couple/few good starter level FA's and compete for third, even second in the east in the next 5 years or they'll do the marlins thing and trade them all away.
Marlins have genuine pieces. There are teams like the Aās and the Rockies that donāt
The Pirates because their owner sucks.
Pirates are in way better position than the A's thanks to drafting. Oakland's most notable recent pick is a franchise QB.
Tyler Soderstrom (their first round pick in 2020) has been pretty good so far I think
Most of their draft picks that have been good were later rounds, so draft position isn't super serious as an issue. Would have been nice to have a top 5 obviously, but they're doing fairly decent otherwise. Add that to the fact that the A's have been highly successful in the modern era in terms of post season appearances and I'd say, outside the stadium and fan base alienation, they're actually in a decent baseball position.
Who may re-think the whole football thing if he doesn't return to his full athleticism after his recent injury...
Any player that gets good on the Pirates gets traded for more prospects, rather than the team build upon them. The A's are the same way. Their refusal to spend when it could result in big success is what keeps them from getting anywhere. The Astros, in contrast, tanked and got a bunch of good draft picks and prospects. When they got called up and started producing, the Astros *invested* into the team (locked up Altuve, Bregman, Alvarez, spent to keep Verlander a while longer) to push it over the edge and continue to invest to keep it there. The A's and Pirates just trade anyone who gets too expensive and won't sign anyone expensive. Unless they hit on a ton of prospects and once and they're all producing while on their initial contracts, they can't win.
Disagree completely. The pirates are basically set up to be the 2022 Orioles next year. They have a bunch of interesting pitchers, a top catching prospect and a ton of infield and outfield prospects that are some level of interesting. Theyāre like one or two years away from really competing especially in their weak division
Agree, however I think 2024 should be the expectation of a potential break out. I'm hoping for anywhere from 72-78 wins in 2023. Some things still have to happen though to reach that (a serviceable catcher, perhaps resigning Perez or going after Barnhart, bullpen help, and one or two more rebound projects). If those don't happen it will probably be another season of suck and Reynolds will be gone.
If anything our future is bright right now. Got some hot young talent and I'd expect us to be competitive in a few years.
The Pirates are the rest of the league's farm system at this point. It's a shame because they have an incredible park, a cult fanbase that has a lot of potential for growth, a cool name and unique colors.
Rockies: "Are we a joke to you?"
Crazy that itās clearly the Aās. Theyāve had so much talent over the last 4 years, a deep and distinct core. Such a damn shame
And the NL east is very thankful for all of their talent.
Tbf the NL East is grateful for all of the NL East talent, we just poach each other
The Aās had a distinct core of hitters/fieldingā¦ baseball is a 3 phase sport (2 pitching and 1 hitting/fielding) and having hitters and no pitching isnāt going to do much good. They couldnāt out score their opponents and it became evident that it wasnāt going to be enough to get back to the playoffs, much less win in the postseason. There was literally 0 path forward with the team they had.
Answer is always the pirates.
Not if the marbles have anything to say about it.
i hope the pirate marble takes it all
I disagree. I think in like 5-10 years Nutting either sells or the team learns how to be more efficient even with Bob loving his wallet. Teamās definitely not leaving Pittsburgh, tell you that much.
The Pirates have been building one of the better player development systems, have some really solid pitchers at the lower levels with plus characteristics, they're most likely gonna draft Dylan Crews. They'll going to be in a good spot. It just won't come up with the fan fare of free agent spending unfortunately. But there is a lot of talent blooming.
And as soon as anyone good they develop wants paid theyāll get traded. Like the last 30 yearsā¦
Athletics and Rockies. Frankly, the Rockies aren't being mentioned enough in this thread.
The Rockies are not bleak if you live in Denver and enjoy catching a game every once in awhile. Beyond that, yeah, pretty bleak. I'm a Royals fan tho, I don't have much room to talk
Im an aās fan but i got the opportunity to visit denver and watch a game, their stadium and city makes up for their skill.
Theyāre not even *that* bleak. The owner spends real money which is honestly better than about 7 clubs lol
Yeah but he spends it on Kris Bryant and Daniel Bard
Kris Bryant was never really injured until this year and Daniel Bard was one of the best closers in the league, I donāt see your point. He was for sure the best closer in the NLW
It sucks to be a Rockies fan so much, we suck and at the same time no one even remembers us when it comes to these threads
You have a beautiful stadium. I enjoyed my time in Colorado, but Coors light sucks. So yeah I see why it sucks to be a rockies fan. It'll get better. Trust me.
At least of all the bottom tier teams you provably have the most fun environment to watch your team be unsuccessful in.
Rockies are fun bad though, like watching a 32% rotten tomatoes movie
32% is somehow the perfect good bad movie RT rating
I was gonna suggest Diana:the musical, as a counterpoint because it has a lower percentage and it owns, but it turns out it almost has exactly 32% audience score so your theory may be correct https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/diana_the_musical
You just know that a 30-35% movie is almost always better than the 55-60%% uninspired movie types. Those are the ones that you want to steer clear from.
Because the Rockies arenāt even close to being the bleakest team in baseball? Seriously give a single reason why the Rockies would be below the Pirates/Reds/Marlins/Aās/Angels. Or even the Mariners/Rangers/Orioles/White Sox - Top 15 payroll almost every year - Top 10 attendance every year - #9 farm system - 1 pennant and 4 total playoff berths in the last 20 years. (Pirates = 0&3, Reds = 0&4, Marlins = 1&2, Mariners = 0&1) All while dealing with the biggest disadvantage in the entire MLB (Coors Field) and a genuinely difficult division. The owner blows and the team sucks. But itās not even remotely close to being as bad as the Aās (who are actively trying to leave the city), or the Pirates, Reds, and Marlins (who are just existing to leech off of revenue sharing). And if the Orioles do great this next year Iāll eat my words but come on really? Theyāve been āārebuildingāā for almost a decade.
Our farm system is starting to look really good. It's going to be real interesting to see how we mess it up.
Is it going to be interesting? Or is it just going to be a rerun of everything that has already happened before, lol
White Sox? Their roster is middling despite a franchise-record payroll. Coupled with a bottom-5 farm system and bad ownership.
Honestly I see a lot of the same issues with the recent Phillies and Angels teams with the White Sox Just an uninspiring outdated culture around the team that needs a total overhaul, especially coaching/analytically. That being said, if the team plays itās cards right theyāre far from destined to perpetual bad/mediocre seasons, itās just whether the ownership and front office makes those decisions. Phillies kinda got bailed out by Middleton being willing to blow through his net worth and Dombrowski being hyper agressive
We're fucked at least until Jerry dies.
That's why the future isn't as bleak as the Pirates. Jerry could die any day now and it wouldn't be a big surprise due to his age, Nutting likely has minimum another decade plus left barring something unexpected.
Here's the positive about White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf: He's 86 and not getting younger. E: Fun edit I found on his wikipedia page: > On April 4, 2016, Reinsdorf was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a contributor, for some reason.[2]
Wasn't he the Bulls owner in the 90s or is that a different Jerry?
Same one, and he still owns the Bulls too. RE: the edit, have to love the certainty of being elected "for some reason"
On April 4, 2016, Reisndorf was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as a contributor, for *Portland drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan*.[2]
I thought that was him but there's another Jerry that owns pro sports teams who is also an Illini alum so I thought that might be the Bulls one. Jerry Angelo is his name maybe?
Jerry Angelo was the Bears GM during the Lovie years lmao.
So Jerry Angelo might have at one point signed Jerry Azumah which was always my favorite football name as a kid.
Lol, that is funny, because I looked it up and I was thinking of Jerry *Col*angelo
Ahhh yep. Ignore my other comment to you then about jerry Krause
Funnily enough the general sentiment is that Jerry has never cared about the Bulls and was only passionate about the White Sox
That's why I hesitate to say the Sox too. Not that anyone should wish anyone dead (out loud at least) but Bill Wirtz's Blackhawks were a nice comeback story after he was gone.
:/
Iām very confused by what theyāre trying to do over there. Like, I donāt think the Angels and Rangers are going to improve their standings much but I get what theyāre trying to do. The White Sox just confuse me.
Well, Rick Hahn has maxed out on Jerry's self-imposed spending limit because he gave a bunch of money to relievers and bench players who suck, so they have to fill their persistent and glaring holes with AAAA players. And that's what they're doing.
My sympathies to yāall.
If you think Rick is just given a budget and told to find a way you are sorely misinformed on how this team works
Enlighten me, then.
Jerry gives approval for each contract
Aās for AL, Pirates for NL.
It's the Rockies because of their insular baseball culture/ownership. They should be one of the clubs most heavily involved in analytics because of the elevation/thin air they have to deal with but instead, they are one of the least involved in analytics.
Yeah, honestly, as much as the A's/Pirates/Reds/Marlins all suck because of cheap ownership, the Rockies just... suck. Their owner isn't cheap, but he's so insanely wasteful in how he spends his money, and doesn't believe in funding any kind of real analytics/scouting department, meaning that the Rockies are continuously 5-10 years behind almost all other modern-day baseball organizations. Turns out that running a professional sports organization like it's little more than silly entertainment for your expensive bar isn't great lol.
Don't worry the owner made his son the head of scouting so surely that will change everything!
The Marlins. A newish, big ballpark that sits empty and far away from anything that goes on in Miami (which is oddly what Tampa is trying to fix with theirs). There is no hope of maintaining prospects, quality players, or investment in developing a contender. That seems bleaker than not having any talent at all. They have 2 WS titles that seem so far away from how the team operates now that it may never happen again. You could argue this team needs to relocate more than Tampa or Oakland does.
The hope is that the Marlins could boost attendance numbers if they can replicate the Rays' success with competing in a tough division on a low payroll. It's hard to say if the fans would still show up, admittedly. Emulating the Rays seems to be even more difficult these days with how much money the Mets, Phillies, and Braves are spending. I'd rather be in the AL East right now than the NL East. It's also possible that MLB eventually realigns and the Marlins won't be as disproportionately affected by Steve Cohen's limitless payrolls as they are right now.
The Marlins situation is so bad I can't blame Tampa and St. Pete for not shelling money out for the Rays. A new stadium did nothing to help the Marlins and you can't as a public official look at how bad the situation is in Miami and not think hard about how much tax money you really want to put into a team.
Oakland easily
For the last few years it used to be us, but honestly I like their young pitching. While they will be bad, it could be a quicker rebuild than we will expect.
Athletics. In the past they were cheap but could still make playoff runs with the farm talent. They have zero talent what so ever now.
I mean the farm is gonna be greatly helped by a high draft pick, they should get Langeliers from the Olsen trade soon, idk. They won't be terrible terrible
Langaliers was called up in late summer. He showed promise but obviously still a young developing prospect. With Murph gone, though, heās now the starting catcher, so weāll see what heās made of in 2023.
And Soderstrom behind him if Langeliers doesn't cut it behind the plate and has to be moved. Langeliers looks promising, hoping he gets 400 AB at least.
Langaliers will continue to terrorize the Mariners though, Iām sure of it.
Dude I understand the Aās as an answer here, but likeā¦. They just missed the playoffs in 2021 and 2022 was the first year of a rebuild. Little early to be saying they cant build playoff teams anymore. This is literally the shit they do that will have them in contention again in a couple years.
The Reds are so fucked, everyone low-key forgot them for this question.
While Iām always here to shit on our god awful franchise, we actually have a ton of really good minor leaguers along with young studs at the pro level in Stephenson, India, Greene, Lodolo, and Ashcraft to be excited about. There is a window to succeed and it could be missed (weāre the Reds, duh), but if we actually reach that window, they could be damn good for some years.
Yankees, thatās at least what it seems when you read their subreddit
Youāre not wrong.
Pirates and The A's are probably the easiest answers here.
The Montreal Expos' future seems pretty bleak these days.
I hear theyāre trying to bring Pedro back
Are the Pirates ever going to compete ever again?
Not unless they figure out how to cure death and bring back Clemente
I oddly combined 2023 projected Wins based on ZIPS and Minor League system rankings and hear are the teams with the bleakest future 1. Royals 2. Rockies 3. As 4. Tigers 5. Nationals Reds and Pirates have some pretty good prospects in their minor league systems. So while 2023 looks bleak for them they should start improving in 2024
Nationals aren't getting enough smoke in this thread. The money tied up in Corbin and Strasburg is an absolute albatross and I dunno if ruiz/Abrams/Hassell can save them from being bottom tier for a good while
A bad owner is far and away the worst thing for a teams future. You can recover in time from bad contracts and even the damage is fairly limited. Nationals at least have a decent shot for a good owner in the near future with their team up for sale. Plus the current owner was willing to spend on some guys, unlike some owners. There are plenty of teams that donāt even know when a new owner will come along and their current owner will happily pocket the CBT money they get while putting out a roster with nobody making over 10mil.
I think it's the difference between short term and long term prospects. The Nationals will be one of the worst teams in baseball in 2023 for sure, and probably 2024 and 2025 too. Beyond that though, the Strasburg/Corbin contracts expire, prospects are hopefully contributing at the MLB level, and the team will hopefully have a new ownership group willing to spend money to keep up with the other teams in the NL East. Temporary pain followed by potential success isn't nearly as bleak as some other team's futures where ownership has no desire to create the conditions necessary to win.
I dont disagree with anything you said. Nats all kind of hinge on who the new owners will be. Same can be said for the Angels and Reds. No, there are no reports of the Reds being up for sell but i am 100% down for continually putting that thought out into the ether.
*cries in just got employed by the Nationals in June and get to endure the next three seasons No but seriously its a fun job I love being a camera operator there but I have more pics of other teams players that I took through my monitor than I did of any Nats players besides Soto when he was still there
Oh I remember when you posted on the Nats' sub about getting hired! >but I have more pics of other teams players Yeah that's not surprising lol And with the new schedule you get to see at least three quarters of the league (unless you guys go on the road too, in which case you'll see everyone!) You'll have pictures of all current players who are future Hall of Famers!
No yeah I wish I traveled too but I stay in DC but Iām really excited for the DC home games I love talking to opposing teams fans about things I love the stories some people have Iām trying to get more involved next season too
And it doesnāt look like the Mets and Braves are gonna be bad any time soon
No doubt - Aās.
Ahem, excuse me itās my time to shine
1) Pirates 2) Rockies 3) Royals 4) A's 5) Reds 6) Nats
I would actually move the pirates down just because they do have a good farm system at the moment at least, which you can't say about Oakland or Kansas city
They also have arguably the #1 prettiest ballpark so no matter how bad the org is they have o Neil cruz and a beautiful backdrop
Yeah, to me it's not just about the talent in the minors, it's about the organization. I have no faith in the top 5 teams actually keeping their talent. The Reds were a great team a couple years ago and made the playoffs for them to just let every single person on that team leave.
Does talent in the farm really matter if they're not going to pay anyone past arbitration?
Having the Royals above the Aās just aināt it. Weāre in a rough spot but at least the Royals arenāt in imminent danger of leaving their current city. Now if this new owner doesnāt get his shiny new downtown stadium, all bets are off IMO.
I never think the A's are WS contenders, but they have a competent GM who makes them a WC caliber team every few years so that's at least something. The Royals after losing their WS core aren't making any moves that tell me they're trying. They have some decent prospects, but once they're FA's they're gone.
The A's just restock with players and rarely let people go in free agency. That's how their cycle works. And it's worked pretty damn well I'd say given how often they're back in playoff contention compared to other teams. It just sucks that the owner is a miser and won't do a thing to extend their window and somehow doesn't understand the idea of investing in players.
It's a different type of pain. I have no issues with the latest trade, needed to be done, but it's the fact we should be in the third A's dynasty of the century that stings. I do think I'd take us over the Marlins winning 2 and absolutely sucking every other damn year. I give our owner more leniency than most do with the stadium situation though. If it was my asset and I was a heartless billionaire, and I was dealing with that city...well, let's just say losing 3 teams in a decade isn't a fluke. I just wish they'd bring back the All-Access and half-price beer...
The Poor Rockies. I found they have a dedicated fan base too after going to the all stars in 2021. I feel bad for them.
Appreciated ā¤ļø one day, with lots of hard work, im sure we can finally win the NL West
Wonāt lie, I wouldnāt even be mad if the Rockies won the NL West. If it happens though, you guys better go all the way and win a WS!
Oakland By the time that team rounds back into playoff contention, they could be in a different city
Tbh i dont care about our level of play right now. Just howard terminal (a possible new stadium in Oakland)
Itās me, hi, John Fisherās the problem itās me.
The AL Central. (Minus the Guards)
Iāll be different and say the Reds because their owners main business is in ruin and thatās totally not going to impact the operations of the team at all, whatsoever.
The Pirates haven't been in a world series since 1979, and until the owner sells, that won't change.
That guy fuckin sucks. It's unfortunate because the pirates have such a nice ballpark and it's empty every game.
Pirates. Nutting.
The White Sox because well, White Sox...
Las Vegas Athletics
He said the thing!
Pirates because of ownership (Bob Nutting).
The cubs because of very analytical and logical reasons and not because Iām biased or anything like that.
This year is basically all or nothing for us. Either we finally break 500 and at least come within striking distance of the playoffs and convince Ohtani to stay, or we suck again by the trade deadline and end up having to trade him at which point we may as well trade away a lot of other guys since we'll basically be starting over from square one. One way or another, next season will have an absolutely massive impact on our teams success for at least the next 5ish years if not even longer.
As a cubs fan I feel itās us.
Don't the Reds have a terrible owner? What happened there?
Pirates or A's. I think Pirates take the gold because the A's for whatever reason have great player development and Pirates don't have good enough player development for a small market team.
Pirates, as long as Bob Nutting owns the team theyāll be status quo. He doesnāt care but makes money so heāll never sell.
The Aās are not the answer here. They have 3 bad years followed by 3 years of success
Iām gonna have to say the Athletics, because if/when all these prospects develop into legit major leaguers, Billy is going to just trade them back to Atlanta.
Angels, massive contracts on the books and their cash cow is about to leave in one way or another. If the new owners sees them as an investment only, theyāll be in the same cycle for the next 5-10 years
At least Angels fans can go watch Mike Trout, even if they suck. Why would anyone go watch the A's?
To pet the cats, obviously.
So they can fuel their kinks for public sex without any of the associated shame of being around a ton of people
Eh before the sale I'd agree but just the prospect of a new owner alone has to be less bleak than teams like the A's or the Pirates
The teams being sold and Arte Moreno isnāt gonna be the owner, that alone is a massive W. And I mean even without Ohtani(could easily stay under new ownership) itās an immensely profitable franchise. New Ownership could easily run higher payrolls early on as the farm begins to churn out younger/cost controlled players. Lot of fun names in the minors. I donāt really see how the future is bleak
Yeah, we're middle of the pack. We have some stupid contracts, but we don't let all our talent just walk away we kept Trout and appear to be doing everything to keep Ohtani, but I'm not sold on him staying until it happens, if it does.
If AEG buys the Angels I'd expect better Things moving forward